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View Full Version : Who is and who isn´t a "ballbasher"?


Matej
May 5th, 2011, 05:29 PM
I am somewhat perplexed by the TF (mis)use of the word "ballbasher". Who exactly is and who isn´t a "ballbasher"? As I understand the term, it refers to a player who tries to hit almost every ball as hard as she possibly can. If so, Gajdosova probably properly counts as a ballbasher.

But what about i.e. Lucie Šafářová? Surely, she has an aggressive and offensive style of play, but her CC forehand has huge amount of topspin on it and often plays loopier balls from her backhand side to get a shorter ball that she could attack.

Petra Kvitová often uses great angles, in particular on her backhand side (and frequently uses backhand slice as well).

Young 8
May 5th, 2011, 05:31 PM
Gajdosova is the poster girl for ballbashing

AndreConrad
May 5th, 2011, 05:33 PM
It is just matter of degree. I don't think thare are pure ballbashers or pure counter punchers. You can just say that some people rely on more risky game than others.

Young 8
May 5th, 2011, 05:37 PM
Pure Ballbashers don't have a PLAN B

ViceUltramontain
May 5th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Rezai. When she's on, she wins Madrid. When she's off, she's just a random top 200 player. And she has no plan B.

Young 8
May 5th, 2011, 05:45 PM
Rezai. When she's on, she wins Madrid. When she's off, she's just a random top 200 player. And she has no plan B.

Good example

Matej
May 5th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Pure Ballbashers don't have a PLAN B

Well, what exactly do you mean? For example, Lucka Šafářová simply can´t win matches if she doesn´t plaz offensively, because her retrieving and defensive capabilities are rather poor. In my view, that fact alone doesn´t make her a "ballbasher".

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Karolina Sprem :hearts:

Vee Williams
May 5th, 2011, 05:50 PM
Pure Ballbashers don't have a PLAN B

You just added Sharapova to the ball-basher list.

Vikapower
May 5th, 2011, 06:05 PM
I am somewhat perplexed by the TF (mis)use of the word "ballbasher". Who exactly is and who isn´t a "ballbasher"? As I understand the term, it refers to a player who tries to hit almost every ball as hard as she possibly can. If so, Gajdosova probably properly counts as a ballbasher.

But what about i.e. Lucie Šafářová? Surely, she has an aggressive and offensive style of play, but her CC forehand has huge amount of topspin on it and often plays loopier balls from her backhand side to get a shorter ball that she could attack.

Petra Kvitová often uses great angles, in particular on her backhand side (and frequently uses backhand slice as well).

Just fan's word to pejoratively name players they do not like... as soon as you hit the ball in an agressive manner you get the tag... I've even seen for example many people call Del Po ballbasher... this is the level of extent at which this word is overused.

CloudAtlas
May 5th, 2011, 06:09 PM
A ball basher is someone who relies on powerful shots without much thinking going on between their ears. See Sprem, Rezai and Mirza.

Mistress of Evil
May 5th, 2011, 06:17 PM
You just added Sharapova to the ball-basher list.

does every post of yours has to have Maria's name in it :spit: I mean she is not that relevant anymore to mention here so often :awww: Though, the argument with the Plan B is not so credible since Karolina is not a ball-basher but she lacks it, too. So I guess it turns out following this logic Wozniacki is pure example of a brainless ball-basher. :D

Le Tenisse
May 5th, 2011, 06:23 PM
Lots of words are more used than others here to put a style of playing, or certain situations surrounding a match, in a category. For example, words like BALLBASHER are in the same level of popularity that GOAT, PUSHER (OR PUSHING), MOONBALLER, and from the likes of that. Sometimes its difficult to define them because of two things: their examples and their affinity (what it´s good strategy for someone its boring for another). It would be interesting, if there were a thread in which any TF poster would simply define this words according to their acknowledge.

Hian
May 5th, 2011, 06:25 PM
Rezai, Kvitova, Goerges, Giorgi, Lucic, Grothsova.

SVK
May 5th, 2011, 06:26 PM
There are two sorts of ballbashers.

Ballbasher = player with agressive game, hitting many winners but also UEs, dictating game and still you can see she has a clue where and how to hit a ball (Serena)

Brainless ballbasher = player with agressive game who is using strenght more than brain, hitting some random bombs and hoping for winner (Lucic)

nevetssllim
May 5th, 2011, 06:30 PM
I wouldn't really describe Mirza as a ball-basher. She's not that offensive on her BH side.

Ball-bashers can include Lucic, *especially off-form* Dokic, Rezai, Groth, Kudryavtseva.

I think Azarenka as a ball-basher is a bit of a misconception though.

Linguae^
May 5th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Waiting for someone to say - Serena Williams? :lol:
It's that girl on the avatar pic of the opener of this thread. :tape:

Matej
May 5th, 2011, 06:38 PM
Waiting for someone to say - Serena Williams? :lol:
It's that girl on the avatar pic of the opener of this thread. :tape:

I am not interested in unsubstantiated claims like that -- you need to offer reasons why do you think so.

MAGIKARPETTA
May 5th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Giorgi is actually the best brainless ballbasher ever. Love her for that :kiss:

Phil=)
May 5th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I agree that sometimes you might think Goerges is a ballbasher, but she really improved her game and can play long rallies now and even mix it up with stops what you could see in Madrid.

BartoLiNa
May 5th, 2011, 07:30 PM
A ballbasher is simply a player who has a lot of power. It's not a derogatory term.

A brainless ballbasher is someone who just hits hard with little if any thought behind it. Li Na is the Queen of the brainless ballbashers.

Matej
May 5th, 2011, 07:38 PM
A ballbasher is simply a player who has a lot of power. It's not a derogatory term.

A brainless ballbasher is someone who just hits hard with little if any thought behind it. Li Na is the Queen of the brainless ballbashers.

OK, perhaps I was mislead by TF (mis- or over-)use of the term and mistakenly thought that the word "ballbasher" itself has negative connotations.

SVK
May 5th, 2011, 07:39 PM
A ballbasher is simply a player who has a lot of power. It's not a derogatory term.

A brainless ballbasher is someone who just hits hard with little if any thought behind it. Li Na is the Queen of the brainless ballbashers.

Finally someone who is using a brain.

stangtennis
May 5th, 2011, 07:42 PM
A ball basher is someone who relies on powerful shots without much thinking going on
That's a sub-group of ballbashers named brainless ballbashers. If some thinking is going on too they are just ballbashers.

Matej
May 5th, 2011, 07:45 PM
On a second thought, if it´s supposed to be neutral / technical term, why don´t just use "hard hitters" or something like that instead of "ball bashers"? I have the impression that "bashing" something has in itself somewhat negative connotations. ;)

The Witch-king
May 5th, 2011, 07:57 PM
OK, perhaps I was mislead by TF (mis- or over-)use of the term and mistakenly thought that the word "ballbasher" itself has negative connotations.

It always has a negative connotation. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it as a compliment.

pov
May 5th, 2011, 08:21 PM
It always has a negative connotation. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it as a compliment.
:yeah: Just like "pusher."

The Witch-king
May 5th, 2011, 08:25 PM
:yeah: Just like "pusher."
True.

Alejandrawrrr
May 5th, 2011, 08:26 PM
Yeah, not buying the "ballbasher" as neutral thing. Hard hitter, power hitter, big babe are all things we use to describe women who play a primarily power game. I've always seen "ballbasher" as just shortening of brainless ballbasher.

Also, good idea for the thread, I think a lot of times people mistakenly label anyone who plays a power game as a basher, when for me a basher is someone who doesn't really have anything other than persistent hard-hitting in their repertoire(See Rezai, sorry to offend.) Another common characteristic of many(not all) ballbashers is horribly inconsistent results (they're more the players who you say "if she's on, _________") Of course anyone of any playstyle can be streaky, but this is especially true of ballbashers.

Mekoro
May 5th, 2011, 09:21 PM
A ballbasher is for me a one dimensional player who has for main tactic to try to hit a winner as soon as they are not in a bad spot. They always take huge risks and plays like that for the majority of the time.

But the term has a rather bad image because a lot of average talented player are doing it with a ugly result. Nothing is more ugly than a ballbasher in a bad day putting everything out of the court and continuing to do so until the end because they have no plan B.

WTA has not a lot of variety and ballbasher are now the standard model.

Succesfull ballbashers are also called "big hitters" to differenciate them from the bunch of average ballbashers.

Vikapower
May 5th, 2011, 11:05 PM
If basher wasn't pejorative as some seem to pretend them it'd have been commonly used in the sphere of experts not TF's couch experts if you see what I mean...

VishaalMaria
May 5th, 2011, 11:08 PM
If basher wasn't pejorative as some seem to pretend them it'd have been commonly used in the sphere of experts not TF's couch experts if you see what I mean...

No.......you're English is very poor.

Vikapower
May 5th, 2011, 11:25 PM
No.......you're English is very poor.

Ha ha...

Vee forever.

VishaalMaria
May 5th, 2011, 11:31 PM
Ha ha...

Vee forever.

You best believe :lol:

Saralah.
May 5th, 2011, 11:34 PM
No.......you're English is very poor.
When you want to bash on someone's english, at least try not to make mistakes yourself.

VishaalMaria
May 5th, 2011, 11:42 PM
When you want to bash on someone's english, at least try not to make mistakes yourself.

Honesty is key.

Craig.
May 5th, 2011, 11:42 PM
No.......you're English is very poor.

So is yours.

VishaalMaria
May 5th, 2011, 11:44 PM
So is yours.

OMG! I was being ironic with that poster! Hence his laugh! Will people lighten up already?!!

Craig.
May 5th, 2011, 11:45 PM
OMG! I was being ironic with that poster! Hence his laugh! Will people lighten up?!!

I realized after I posted my reply :lol: Sorry.

justine schnyder
May 6th, 2011, 04:43 AM
There are two sorts of ballbashers.

Ballbasher = player with agressive game, hitting many winners but also UEs, dictating game and still you can see she has a clue where and how to hit a ball (Serena)

Brainless ballbasher = player with agressive game who is using strenght more than brain, hitting some random bombs and hoping for winner (Lucic)

:yeah:

shoparound
May 6th, 2011, 05:06 AM
in these message boards: anyone who can hit hard.

edificio
May 6th, 2011, 06:29 AM
It isn't a terrible thing to be a ballbasher. The problem comes when people call you a "brainless" ballbasher.

On a second thought, if it´s supposed to be neutral / technical term, why don´t just use "hard hitters" or something like that instead of "ball bashers"? I have the impression that "bashing" something has in itself somewhat negative connotations. ;)

Because, as you know, the term is used by many to disparage the player. Hard hitting and aggressive sounds good too me, but if a player can't change up things when things aren't going well, well, they might get called brainless. :shrug: Doesn't even matter. Some like one style of play, while others disparage it. De gustibus non est disputandum, except at TennisForum.

Curcubeu
May 6th, 2011, 06:38 AM
It isn't a terrible thing to be a ballbasher. The problem comes when people call you a "brainless" ballbasher.



Because, as you know, the term is used by many to disparage the player. Hard hitting and aggressive sounds good too me, but if a player can't change up things when things aren't going well, well, they might get called brainless. :shrug: Doesn't even matter. Some like one style of play, while others disparage it. De gustibus non est disputandum, except at TennisForum.

OK, now for not latin speaking people! :o

BepaMaria
May 6th, 2011, 08:02 AM
Ballbashers: Azarenka, Li Na, Stosur, WS, Kvitova(brainless ballbasher), Rezai(ultra ballbasher 3.0), Mattek-sands, Mirza

Unjustly addressed by people as ballbashers: Sharapova, Kirilenko, Goerges, Gajdosova, Cibulkova

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 09:06 AM
Ballbashers: Azarenka, Li Na, Stosur, WS, Kvitova(brainless ballbasher), Rezai(ultra ballbasher 3.0), Mattek-sands, Mirza

Unjustly addressed by people as ballbashers: Sharapova, Kirilenko, Goerges, Gajdosova, Cibulkova

OK, this post of yours doesn´t make any sense to me. If Kvitova is a "brainless ballbasher", how come that today´s version of Masha (or Gajdošová) isn´t?

Today´s Masha = the ultimate case of a player whose only strategy is to hit the ball as hard as she can, regardless of how many mistakes she makes along the way. Just watch again her matches vs. Petkovic (AO), Wozniacki, Dulgheru and Azarenka.

Curcubeu
May 6th, 2011, 09:26 AM
:spit:

If there would be a tennis encyclopedia and you look up the term ballbasher, let's bet that there would be a picture of Gajdosova on the same page

Sean.
May 6th, 2011, 09:47 AM
On a second thought, if it´s supposed to be neutral / technical term, why don´t just use "hard hitters" or something like that instead of "ball bashers"? I have the impression that "bashing" something has in itself somewhat negative connotations. ;)

Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the term "ball basher" meant a player who didn't think when they hit the ball, they just hit it as hard as they can into space with no tactics or plan b.

Sean.
May 6th, 2011, 09:51 AM
Rezai, Kvitova, Goerges, Giorgi, Lucic, Grothsova.

Ballbashers: Azarenka, Li Na, Stosur, WS, Kvitova(brainless ballbasher), Rezai(ultra ballbasher 3.0), Mattek-sands, Mirza

Unjustly addressed by people as ballbashers: Sharapova, Kirilenko, Goerges, Gajdosova, Cibulkova

No way are these ball-bashers!

BepaMaria
May 6th, 2011, 10:51 AM
OK, this post of yours doesn´t make any sense to me. If Kvitova is a "brainless ballbasher", how come that today´s version of Masha (or Gajdošová) isn´t?

Today´s Masha = the ultimate case of a player whose only strategy is to hit the ball as hard as she can, regardless of how many mistakes she makes along the way. Just watch again her matches vs. Petkovic (AO), Wozniacki, Dulgheru and Azarenka.

Masha lacks speed, so usually her way of countering that is to hit the ball hard and try to get the winner so that she can preventing her opponent from countering her weakness. However, Masha can do very good drop shots and can volley well too. She actually has very good technique and all-court skills hence she shouldn't be regarded as a ballbasher.

Does Kvitova know how to do drop shots? Does Kvitova volley well? Does she have good all-court skills? The answer to all these questions is no. The only thing she does is to brainlessly whack the ball and if she's on she wins the match. But when she loses, she still sticks to the same gameplan of whacking the ball and has no plan B, so obviously she is regarded as a brainless balbasher.

SVK
May 6th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Actually Kvitova´s volleys are decent :unsure:

Juju Nostalgique
May 6th, 2011, 11:04 AM
Grothova is a good example... of hubbybasher! :tape: :spit:

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Masha lacks speed, so usually her way of countering that is to hit the ball hard and try to get the winner so that she can preventing her opponent from countering her weakness. However, Masha can do very good drop shots and can volley well too. She actually has very good technique and all-court skills hence she shouldn't be regarded as a ballbasher.

Does Kvitova know how to do drop shots? Does Kvitova volley well? Does she have good all-court skills? The answer to all these questions is no. The only thing she does is to brainlessly whack the ball and if she's on she wins the match. But when she loses, she still sticks to the same gameplan of whacking the ball and has no plan B, so obviously she is regarded as a brainless balbasher.

Wow, gimme a break! Masha´s dropshots are not very good and her volleys and net skills are rather poor (note: apart from drive volleys -- but I am speaking about "standard" volleys). Kvitová has certainly better volleys than Masha. And in contrast to Masha, she has a OK slice backhand too.

fouc
May 6th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Does Kvitova know how to do drop shots? Does Kvitova volley well? Does she have good all-court skills? The answer to all these questions is no. T

C3Gdw0hSfHs

btw, have you already got your ban warning? such a troll :o

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 11:43 AM
C3Gdw0hSfHs

btw, have you already got your ban warning? such a troll :o

As for Petra´s volleys, it´s the same as with her game overall: it still pretty inconsistent. She can make great volleys and even half-volleys in difficult positions, but she is able to miss lots of easy or routine ones. But her game is still developing and I hope she´s gonna be much better and consistent in this department as well.

Curcubeu
May 6th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Grothova is a good example... of hubbybasher! :tape: :spit:

:hysteric:

MechWarrior2k
May 6th, 2011, 12:42 PM
Add Wickmayer, Kuznetsova, Stosur to list of brainless bashers
Kleybanova, Pavlyuchenkova are just ball bashers that don't know any better
Safina is a robotic ball basher because her defense is piss poor (and I say this as a fan)

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 01:04 PM
Add Wickmayer, Kuznetsova, Stosur to list of brainless bashers


Oh, come on!! Kuznetsova is perhaps brainless, but certainly not a ball basher. :rolleyes:

Darop.
May 6th, 2011, 01:17 PM
When it comes to brainless ballbashing, I think it's hard to find someone better/worse than GOATmila Giorgi :bowdown: / :weirdo:

Vikapower
May 6th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Masha lacks speed, so usually her way of countering that is to hit the ball hard and try to get the winner so that she can preventing her opponent from countering her weakness. However, Masha can do very good drop shots and can volley well too. She actually has very good technique and all-court skills hence she shouldn't be regarded as a ballbasher.

Does Kvitova know how to do drop shots? Does Kvitova volley well? Does she have good all-court skills? The answer to all these questions is no. The only thing she does is to brainlessly whack the ball and if she's on she wins the match. But when she loses, she still sticks to the same gameplan of whacking the ball and has no plan B, so obviously she is regarded as a brainless balbasher.

Kvitova isn't a BB... she's victim of her big game and has no control over it... to be so young and already have a huge game you don't always the maturity at once to use it effectively.

Kvitova thinks on the court IMO but for whatever reasons she sometimes can't prevent herself... she knows when to get under the ball, how to transition, volley... the ideas are there it's just the execution that fails at times...

Kvitova reminds me Baby Federer who swinged at everything too and didn't have that much control over himself and game at times... his game has develloped well having meet the right people... Petra can be the same in her style of play.

AndreConrad
May 6th, 2011, 01:36 PM
Oh, come on!! Kuznetsova is perhaps brainless, but certainly not a ball basher. :rolleyes:
I would separate "brainless" from emotional (Sveta). Some players are quite smart, but let the emotions get the best of them.

SoClose
May 6th, 2011, 01:43 PM
LiNa,Stosur,Petkovic,Kvitova,A.Pavly.....,Wickmaye r,Petrova,Rezai,Kleybanova,Georges,Cibulkova,Gadjo sova,Hantuchova,Pironkova,Vesnina,Shvedova,Hradeck a,Jovanovski,Marino,Dokic,Kudryavtseva,Mirza,Lucic .

SoClose
May 6th, 2011, 01:44 PM
I forgot Azarenka ;)

MechWarrior2k
May 6th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Whoever is in the top 100.... You'll have to cherry pick the girls that aren't ball bashers (Wozniacki, Jankovic, Radwanska, MJMS, Schiavone, Pennetta, Zvonareva)

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 02:18 PM
LiNa,Stosur,Petkovic,Kvitova,A.Pavly.....,Wickmaye r,Petrova,Rezai,Kleybanova,Georges,Cibulkova,Gadjo sova,Hantuchova,Pironkova,Vesnina,Shvedova,Hradeck a,Jovanovski,Marino,Dokic,Kudryavtseva,Mirza,Lucic . [Azarenka]

Reading your list, I wonder why you didn´t include Masha S.? Is it just because you happen to be fan of Sharapova? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you consider Kvitova, Azarenka, Cibulková, Görges, Jovanovski, Hantuchová and even Pironkova :help: to be "ballbashers" (brainless?), than you simply have to include Sharapova as well, since she is certainly more of a ballbasher than all these players, at least in my humble opinion. For Christ's sake, Masha usually "bashes" the ball even on her so called "second serve"! :devil:

And I am pretty sure nobody out of your list makes (due to one-dimensional "ball-bashing") circa 50 or 60 UEs throughout a match, as Sharapova often makes.

BepaMaria
May 6th, 2011, 02:47 PM
Kvitova isn't a BB... she's victim of her big game and has no control over it... to be so young and already have a huge game you don't always the maturity at once to use it effectively.

Kvitova thinks on the court IMO but for whatever reasons she sometimes can't prevent herself... she knows when to get under the ball, how to transition, volley... the ideas are there it's just the execution that fails at times...

Kvitova reminds me Baby Federer who swinged at everything too and didn't have that much control over himself and game at times... his game has develloped well having meet the right people... Petra can be the same in her style of play.

Are you trying to imply that Kvitova will mature and dominate the tour like Federer did? If so, I really should ignore all your posts from now onwards. Kvitova is the Cilic of the WTA and is only capable of one or two upsets in a while.

Kvitova and Federer have totally different game styles. Federer's is full of grace and elegance while Kvitova's is robotic. Comparing both of them is an insult to Federer.

SVK
May 6th, 2011, 02:50 PM
and even Pironkova :help:

Pironkova is actually sometimes in unbelievably ballbashing mode, her match against Zvonareva in Moscow was the best example - she was hitting bombs and winners from everywhere, every single shot from her was a cannon.

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Pironkova is actually sometimes in unbelievably ballbashing mode, her match against Zvonareva in Moscow was the best example - she was hitting bombs and winners from everywhere, every single shot from her was a cannon.

OK, that´s possible, I don´t actually know her that well. Although for me it´s hard to imagine how she was able to "bash" the ball from her forehand side. I´d say her forehand is normally the exact opposite of "ball-bashing". :)

Matej
May 6th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Are you trying to imply that Kvitova will mature and dominate the tour like Federer did? If so, I really should ignore all your posts from now onwards. Kvitova is the Cilic of the WTA and is only capable of one or two upsets in a while.

Kvitova and Federer have totally different game styles. Federer's is full of grace and elegance while Kvitova's is robotic. Comparing both of them is an insult to Federer.

I think he is just trying to imply that she will mature, improve her consistency and will make it - say - to the top 5.

As for the issue who is more robotic and who isn´t, she i certianly not comparable in that respect to Federer, but in my view, she is no more "robotic" than Maria or Bepa. After all, she´s more of a natural ball striker with fluid motion than Zvonareva.

MechWarrior2k
May 7th, 2011, 03:07 AM
So much for clay requiring tactical skills and shot construction to do well on it. Azarenka, Goerges, Li, Kvitova all in the semifinals. :lol:

Vikapower
May 7th, 2011, 04:35 AM
Are you trying to imply that Kvitova will mature and dominate the tour like Federer did? If so, I really should ignore all your posts from now onwards. Kvitova is the Cilic of the WTA and is only capable of one or two upsets in a while.

Kvitova and Federer have totally different game styles. Federer's is full of grace and elegance while Kvitova's is robotic. Comparing both of them is an insult to Federer.

You read way too far... I was just rememorating Fed... no comparisinon here... he had incredible ball stricking with little control and maturity at such a young age... you can see a common point there... personally I have on idea how she'll develop or if she'll even dominate the tour as Fed I do not have the abilities to see that. :)

I can't compare their game and will never since that would be dumb and one sided but of all the girls she has the most fluid technique and saying she's robotic is untrue.

BTW it can't be wrong to say that she develop like him in terms of attitude, consistency, control... you're free to disagree. :)

danieln1
May 7th, 2011, 04:49 AM
Jelena Dokic

Beat
May 7th, 2011, 11:30 AM
Ballbasher = player with agressive game, hitting many winners but also UEs, dictating game and still you can see she has a clue where and how to hit a ball (Serena)

that definition could also be used to desribe a serve & volleyer :shrug:

Shinjiro
May 7th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Too vague a term to be of much use.