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Cam'ron Giles
May 2nd, 2011, 03:01 AM
Finally got the fucker...

RenaSlam.
May 2nd, 2011, 03:10 AM
http://files.sharenator.com/america_fuck_yeah_bikini_breasts_cola_gun_big_mac_ RE_Wher_do_you_sharenators_come_from-s580x725-71050.jpg

delicatecutter
May 2nd, 2011, 03:16 AM
Rihanna tweeted #ManDown. I officially love her. :sobbing:

Payam
May 2nd, 2011, 03:20 AM
Well finally some good news today. :D

Cam'ron Giles
May 2nd, 2011, 03:23 AM
#mandownsituation....

Ryan
May 2nd, 2011, 03:25 AM
:cool: Awww yeah!

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 03:35 AM
Congratulations on your second term mr. obama!!!

Ziggy Starduck
May 2nd, 2011, 03:45 AM
Finally :bowdown: :cheer: :dance:

Daniela-Is-Mine
May 2nd, 2011, 03:46 AM
change the title.

lets thank your troops!

Cam'ron Giles
May 2nd, 2011, 03:48 AM
change the title.

lets thank your troops!

Obama is Commander and Chief...Leader of the Armed forces....

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 03:51 AM
http://files.sharenator.com/america_fuck_yeah_bikini_breasts_cola_gun_big_mac_ RE_Wher_do_you_sharenators_come_from-s580x725-71050.jpg

i love this IMAGE. the irony that it uses Japanese style anime is not lost on me. it makes the image all the more awesome!!! now can we get a naked version?

Ivanovic2008
May 2nd, 2011, 03:52 AM
I am so happy,! America,

New_balls_please
May 2nd, 2011, 03:52 AM
Fuck yeah!!

Temperenka
May 2nd, 2011, 03:53 AM
Wootz!

Brooklyn90
May 2nd, 2011, 04:05 AM
:D :bounce:

M2k
May 2nd, 2011, 04:36 AM
OMG! Finally! That fucker goes down! :cheer: :cheer:

American troops :worship:

I'm watching ABC News and David Taylor Muir looks a bit emotional. I want to cry :bigcry:

calou
May 2nd, 2011, 04:45 AM
God Bless America ! :worship:

ElusiveChanteuse
May 2nd, 2011, 05:19 AM
How do we know if he's really killed?:unsure:

Polikarpov
May 2nd, 2011, 05:21 AM
Show us the receipts! :lol:

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 05:32 AM
the us has the body and the news is reporting that "proof" will be made available

winone23
May 2nd, 2011, 07:22 AM
Finally Justice is served!!!

Ferg
May 2nd, 2011, 07:38 AM
Donald Trump demands to see the death certificate

tenn_ace
May 2nd, 2011, 07:38 AM
personally I'm a bit apprehensive. just about a week ago al Qaeda said they have a nuclear bomb stashed away somewhere in Europe and will detontae if something happnes to the fucker. Hope those were just blah blah blah........................

Tennisation
May 2nd, 2011, 07:45 AM
So who's taking over for Osama now?

Shvedbarilescu
May 2nd, 2011, 07:52 AM
I don't usually celebrate someone being killed but an exception can definately be made on this occasion. :woohoo: :rocker: :bounce: :banana:

The one bit of apprehension I do have however is that the threat of some kind of retaliation is quite ominous. :unsure:

M.S.F
May 2nd, 2011, 07:54 AM
Donald Trump demands to see the death certificate

:lol:
It's crazy to see that a whole nation like USA was scared to death for nearly 10 years from one person like Osama :o
Anyway this came at very good time for Obama ;)

Ziggy Starduck
May 2nd, 2011, 08:02 AM
:lol:
It's crazy to see that a whole nation like USA was scared to death for nearly 10 years from one person like Osama :o
Anyway this came at very good time for Obama ;)

Weren't you afraid to get on a plane after that awful day in September?

MaBaker
May 2nd, 2011, 08:14 AM
It only costed zillion dollars and few hundreds of thousands of deaths. High five.

Mistress of Evil
May 2nd, 2011, 08:17 AM
death is nothing to be celebrated :tape: even the death of a monster as bin Laden :shrug:

Polikarpov
May 2nd, 2011, 08:33 AM
It only costed zillion dollars and few hundreds of thousands of deaths. High five.

Yeah. I was wondering if all the money spent, and the loss of lives of thousands of US soldiers, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan civilians were all worth it in the name of justice.

Betten
May 2nd, 2011, 08:41 AM
Yeah. I was wondering if all the money spent, and the loss of lives of thousands of US soldiers, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan civilians were all worth it in the name of justice.

Those operations weren't solely about justice, in the same way the current movements in Lybia aren't.

M.S.F
May 2nd, 2011, 09:24 AM
Weren't you afraid to get on a plane after that awful day in September?

Of course.
But it's been a long time since we heard anything about him and there were alot of unofficial news about his death in the last few years because of illness and lets not forget all the conspiracy theories that kinda drove him away from the scene.
Thats why i find the reaction a little bit surprising.

McPie
May 2nd, 2011, 09:24 AM
if it's true.............good.

M.S.F
May 2nd, 2011, 09:25 AM
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1842/daveb.png

:lol:

Bismarck.
May 2nd, 2011, 09:45 AM
It only costed zillion dollars and few hundreds of thousands of deaths. High five.

Unfortunately, this. Osama's death is a good thing, but it isn't as great as everyone is making it out to be. I'd wager that he had very little input in the movements of al-Qaeda operatives in his final years and was used only as an ideological figurehead, so I'm not in agreement with people saying that this will be hurtful to the organisation and will more likely spur on their followers to create future attacks to avenge his death.

As well, I think his death just shows how poorly this war has been dealt with by the West. They've focused so heavily on taking out Osama and Afghanistan (ignoring all the other countries which have much heavier al-Qaeda support: Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc.) that now a lot of people think that this is the majority of the operation complete, when really America and its supporting countries are now even more heavily embroiled in this shit than before.

azdaja
May 2nd, 2011, 09:46 AM
Those operations weren't solely about justice, in the same way the current movements in Lybia aren't.
those "operations" were not about justice at all.

Miss Atomic Bomb
May 2nd, 2011, 10:11 AM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjveovdg01qz7by3o1_500.jpg

:spit:


PS:- My partner has to fly today :scared:

ElusiveChanteuse
May 2nd, 2011, 10:24 AM
Obama bin Laden.:haha: His brother?:devil: So the real Osama hasn't?:p

I pray for those who are taking public transports in the future, especially in the highly developed countries. :bolt:

Brena
May 2nd, 2011, 10:32 AM
The US is so random - first the entire population of Iraq, Gaddafi's three grandchildren the other day, Osama today... I suppose they kill a right one after every couple of hundred thousands of innocent ones.

Kim's_fan_4ever
May 2nd, 2011, 10:38 AM
Burn in hell, there's your place :wavey:
Although it's worrying that it took 10 years to get him. I think it shows that the terrorists are still way ahead of us. Hope this death won't cause an increase in the attacks :unsure:

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 11:05 AM
man the haters are out in full force this morning!!!

dear haters:
give it a fucking rest

thank you

The Witch-king
May 2nd, 2011, 11:11 AM
So who's taking over for Osama now?

IKR.

Bismarck.
May 2nd, 2011, 11:39 AM
man the haters are out in full force this morning!!!

dear haters:
give it a fucking rest

thank you

Why the fuck should we? It's taken more than 10 years to find this man (whose importance in al-Qaeda operations is still highly questionable), thousands of civilian deaths and billions of dollars worth of money and for what? His death really isn't that important in the grand scheme of the War on Terror.

Sergius
May 2nd, 2011, 11:54 AM
death is nothing to be celebrated :tape: even the death of a monster as bin Laden :shrug:
This statement
Why the fuck should we? It's taken more than 10 years to find this man (whose importance in al-Qaeda operations is still highly questionable), thousands of civilian deaths and billions of dollars worth of money and for what? His death really isn't that important in the grand scheme of the War on Terror.
and also this one can express my feelings.

Monica_Rules
May 2nd, 2011, 12:37 PM
Not quite sure how i feel really. I suppose its good that he's gone but he wasn't the chief of al-Qaeda anymore only a figure head.

Lets see what the next few weeks bring us though

Bezz
May 2nd, 2011, 01:37 PM
Long time coming....he needed to be captured or killed rather than just dieing some day. Good day for the world..not just the US :).

Darop.
May 2nd, 2011, 01:56 PM
Unfortunately, this. Osama's death is a good thing, but it isn't as great as everyone is making it out to be. I'd wager that he had very little input in the movements of al-Qaeda operatives in his final years and was used only as an ideological figurehead, so I'm not in agreement with people saying that this will be hurtful to the organisation and will more likely spur on their followers to create future attacks to avenge his death.

As well, I think his death just shows how poorly this war has been dealt with by the West. They've focused so heavily on taking out Osama and Afghanistan (ignoring all the other countries which have much heavier al-Qaeda support: Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc.) that now a lot of people think that this is the majority of the operation complete, when really America and its supporting countries are now even more heavily embroiled in this shit than before.

death is nothing to be celebrated :tape: even the death of a monster as bin Laden :shrug:

It only costed zillion dollars and few hundreds of thousands of deaths. High five.

I really agree with this.

I think it's quite ridiculous that thousands of people are on the street in US celebrating the death of one single man, while so many things have been swept under the carpet, all the civilian deaths and expenses which came with finding/killing Osama.

And as if killing this ONE MAN will stop any future real (non fictitious) "terror alert".

Steff_forever
May 2nd, 2011, 04:56 PM
relief yes, celebration no.

and I think it would have been better to get him killed 20 yrs ago, now - as a figurhead of religious resistance - his face will be established as a martyr.

It's the same as the burning of Hitler in the garden of the chancelory on Apr 30 1945 after he committed suicide. He himself said he was hoping not to fall in the hands of the devil - to say the Red army troops - alive or as corpse. So his last diktat was to be burnt.
Afterwards many fables turned up he would still be alive and living somewhere in Argentinia.
In Germany Hitlers assassination together with this of Göbbels and Ernst Röhm (SA leader) would have been most successful in the early yrs of 1926 to 1932 from simple men like Georg Elsner in 1938 (a year before start of WWII).

I just hope that none of the young even more fanatic islamist militants is able to be succesful with another mass murder. Smaller assassinations will follow now in the name of Osama the Bearded with victims of people never jubilating about his death.

Mrs. Dimitrova
May 2nd, 2011, 04:57 PM
Happy for the US but I do hope this won't trigger another act of terrorism. :scared:

Tennisation
May 2nd, 2011, 05:10 PM
So the irony is that eventhough Osama is dead, airport security has been raised to red? :tape:

Apoleb
May 2nd, 2011, 05:16 PM
I think this is an important symbolic victory. Bin Laden was a monster - not only him but the whole ideology he spreads and espouses. Not only he killed so many people (most of them Muslims btw), but his group showed a total disregard for the most elemental human qualities. As the numerous Al-Qaeda videos show, they took pleasure in torturing and slowly slaughtering their subjects with knives as if they were chicken. He and his ideology belong with Hitler.


death is nothing to be celebrated :tape: even the death of a monster as bin Laden :shrug:

I generally agree. But if you lost someone because of him, this is a hard task to accomplish.


Unfortunately, this. Osama's death is a good thing, but it isn't as great as everyone is making it out to be. I'd wager that he had very little input in the movements of al-Qaeda operatives in his final years and was used only as an ideological figurehead, so I'm not in agreement with people saying that this will be hurtful to the organisation and will more likely spur on their followers to create future attacks to avenge his death.

As well, I think his death just shows how poorly this war has been dealt with by the West. They've focused so heavily on taking out Osama and Afghanistan (ignoring all the other countries which have much heavier al-Qaeda support: Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc.) that now a lot of people think that this is the majority of the operation complete, when really America and its supporting countries are now even more heavily embroiled in this shit than before.

I also agree with this. The value in his death is purely symbolic, but nonetheless still very important.

Londoner
May 2nd, 2011, 05:51 PM
relief yes, celebration no.

and I think it would have been better to get him killed 20 yrs ago, now - as a figurhead of religious resistance - his face will be established as a martyr.

It's the same as the burning of Hitler in the garden of the chancelory on Apr 30 1945 after he committed suicide. He himself said he was hoping not to fall in the hands of the devil - to say the Red army troops - alive or as corpse. So his last diktat was to be burnt.
Afterwards many fables turned up he would still be alive and living somewhere in Argentinia.
In Germany Hitlers assassination together with this of Göbbels and Ernst Röhm (SA leader) would have been most successful in the early yrs of 1926 to 1932 from simple men like Georg Elsner in 1938 (a year before start of WWII).

I just hope that none of the young even more fanatic islamist militants is able to be succesful with another mass murder. Smaller assassinations will follow now in the name of Osama the Bearded with victims of people never jubilating about his death.

I agree.

The West funded OBL, just as we are funding Pakistan, and look where he was living - in a palace!

I also agree with posters who say we focused too much on Iraq and Afghanistan. Whereas Iran really does have WMDs!

I'm very worried about the future and the Islamification of Europe. I fear further terrorist attacks and what can we do if they happen. Maybe the old Iron Curtain we had for Russia should have been deployed forth ME. But then there was oil.

Brena
May 2nd, 2011, 06:08 PM
I agree.

The West funded OBL, just as we are funding Pakistan, and look where he was living - in a palace!

I also agree with posters who say we focused too much on Iraq and Afghanistan. Whereas Iran really does have WMDs!

I'm very worried about the future and the Islamification of Europe. I fear further terrorist attacks and what can we do if they happen. Maybe the old Iron Curtain we had for Russia should have been deployed forth ME. But then there was oil.

The US under Clinton even supported Bin Laden in Bosnia. Bin Laden's warriors came to Bosnia to fight on the Muslims' side against the Serbs. Bin Laden was later awarded a honorary Bosnian citizenship by the Bosnian embassy in Vienna, while one of the terrorists involved in 9/11 previously fought in Bosnia. But the US loved both him and his guys back then. Now they killed him but support the fundamentalists in Lybia by killing Gaddafi's children, grandchildren and random Lybian citizens.
Clinton, Bush, Obama... they don't have foreign policies - the US has A foreign policy executed by whoever. :shrug: And they fight or support the Islamic fundamentalism depending on whether it suits the US interests.

Barrie_Dude
May 2nd, 2011, 07:07 PM
:woohoo: Navy Seals Rock! :woohoo:

Darop.
May 2nd, 2011, 07:13 PM
I agree.

The West funded OBL, just as we are funding Pakistan, and look where he was living - in a palace!

I also agree with posters who say we focused too much on Iraq and Afghanistan. Whereas Iran really does have WMDs!

I'm very worried about the future and the Islamification of Europe. I fear further terrorist attacks and what can we do if they happen. Maybe the old Iron Curtain we had for Russia should have been deployed forth ME. But then there was oil.

Since when? Did you hear that on faux news?

Israel is the only country around there that has a nuclear bomb, but then again, they're "good". :rolleyes:

Barrie_Dude
May 2nd, 2011, 07:46 PM
The Iranians will soon have a nuke. Pakistan and India do as well and they are very close to that area

M.S.F
May 2nd, 2011, 08:40 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/9sqiy0.jpg

:unsure:

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 08:42 PM
I really agree with this.

I think it's quite ridiculous that thousands of people are on the street in US celebrating the death of one single man, while so many things have been swept under the carpet, all the civilian deaths and expenses which came with finding/killing Osama.

And as if killing this ONE MAN will stop any future real (non fictitious) "terror alert".


what is ridiculous saying thing without merit. do know that people are sweeping everything under the rug or are just talking conjecture as if fact?

people, particularly young people in NYC, DC and Pennsylvania have good reason to feel relief and yes is some cases to go out an celebrate. i am sure people celebrated at the death of hitler and this is no different.

obl got to live for almost ten years longer than he should have, he is not the alone in being evil just as hitler did do it alone either. but to say that people who suffered because of the hand of this man have no right to feel relief of even to celebrate is just judgment and ignorant. it shows a self righteous lack of empathy... the worst kind. but it also shows a lack of awareness of the facts. the drawdown to the war in afg. is set to begin in the coming months. many people for good reason felt even still that the end would never come. and now for the first time in nearly a decade. they see the end is near. they see that this is finally drawing to a close. we know this is not the end. but this is the beginning of the end. and that is something to celebrate.

Wigglytuff
May 2nd, 2011, 08:45 PM
DUDE, if you are going to post gruesome pictures, at least give warning because not everyone wants to see it. or even should. or can. post a permalink to the image and leave it for those who want to see to see.

Bismarck.
May 2nd, 2011, 08:47 PM
but this is the beginning of the end. and that is something to celebrate.

:spit: Do you honestly believe this? Most of the al-Qaeda-related atrocities that have taken place in the past ten years (Bali, London, Madrid) have had very little to do with bin Laden, and were planned without his knowledge.

This isn't going to end until the USA and al-Qaeda leaders can come to some sort of agreement instead of both trying to use harm to overcome the other. The end is nowhere in sight if we carry on in the same vain.

Bismarck.
May 2nd, 2011, 08:48 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/9sqiy0.jpg

:unsure:

Those pics were revealed to be fakes almost as soon as they came out.

M.S.F
May 2nd, 2011, 08:53 PM
DUDE, if you are going to post gruesome pictures, at least give warning because not everyone wants to see it. or even should. or can. post a permalink to the image and leave it for those who want to see to see.

Changed, it's definitely better to put just a link for this picture :)

Apoleb
May 2nd, 2011, 09:08 PM
The US under Clinton even supported Bin Laden in Bosnia. Bin Laden's warriors came to Bosnia to fight on the Muslims' side against the Serbs. Bin Laden was later awarded a honorary Bosnian citizenship by the Bosnian embassy in Vienna, while one of the terrorists involved in 9/11 previously fought in Bosnia. But the US loved both him and his guys back then. Now they killed him but support the fundamentalists in Lybia by killing Gaddafi's children, grandchildren and random Lybian citizens.
Clinton, Bush, Obama... they don't have foreign policies - the US has A foreign policy executed by whoever. :shrug: And they fight or support the Islamic fundamentalism depending on whether it suits the US interests.

These are all good points. I don't think terrorism or Islamic fundamentalism rank so high on the American foreign policy agenda - definitely not as high as it's publicly suggested. Most of the afflicted and the victims of Al Qaeda and Islamic extremists have been in Muslim countries. It's more or less a nuisance, and at the same time, a very good factor to drum up domestic support. Ultimately, as most nations, the US is mostly concerned with maintaining its economical interests and hegemony (which also include full support of Israel at the detriment of the "war on terror").

Ferg
May 2nd, 2011, 10:12 PM
Obama, Clinton and Biden watching it live
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01885/situation_room_1885490c.jpg

Darop.
May 2nd, 2011, 11:12 PM
what is ridiculous saying thing without merit. do know that people are sweeping everything under the rug or are just talking conjecture as if fact?

people, particularly young people in NYC, DC and Pennsylvania have good reason to feel relief and yes is some cases to go out an celebrate. i am sure people celebrated at the death of hitler and this is no different.

obl got to live for almost ten years longer than he should have, he is not the alone in being evil just as hitler did do it alone either. but to say that people who suffered because of the hand of this man have no right to feel relief of even to celebrate is just judgment and ignorant. it shows a self righteous lack of empathy... the worst kind. but it also shows a lack of awareness of the facts. the drawdown to the war in afg. is set to begin in the coming months. many people for good reason felt even still that the end would never come. and now for the first time in nearly a decade. they see the end is near. they see that this is finally drawing to a close. we know this is not the end. but this is the beginning of the end. and that is something to celebrate.

Firstly, because I think that everyone, no matter how much of a brutal killer, has the right to a fair trial and has the right to try to defend themselves in a fair and equal court. Also, I think every person, no matter how horrible, has the right to a dignified death (he surely would have received the death sentence). If these two things come to lack, especially when we are talking about a death caused by a State (which the US military/SEALS or whatever represents), it's just mere and petty vengeance. I don't really buy the whole "firefight" crap, Osama was wanted dead.
This being said, people across the world and without distinction of sex, race and religion surely have the right to celebrate the capture of Osama Bin Laden.

As for the second part of your post, I don't really get what you're saying.... Are you legitimizing US foreign policy in the middle east? :shrug: If that's the case, I'll just pass on.

The reason why I think all these shenanigans (sp?) are ridiculous is because I seriously doubt that post-9/11 Osama really had a huge and central role in Al Qaeda, so having all these people dancing around, chanting "USA! USA!" and thinking that the days of their "living in terror" are over for good seems quite stupid to me :scratch: I really don't see how I'm lacking empathy. And not only do I believe that he didn't have a central role in Al Qaeda, I don't even think Al Qaeda is the biggest threat to US security (or at least, not a proportionate threat considering how much time/money/media craze has been invested in it).

Fingon
May 3rd, 2011, 12:44 AM
Why the fuck should we? It's taken more than 10 years to find this man (whose importance in al-Qaeda operations is still highly questionable), thousands of civilian deaths and billions of dollars worth of money and for what? His death really isn't that important in the grand scheme of the War on Terror.
Really? his importance was questionable? I am so fucking sick of people always saying that it's better to leave then alone because otherwise someone will take their place, foments hatred blah blah blah.
They can hate as much as they want, but the reality is that very few people has Bin Laden's skills.
It wasn't just about saying, let's have a little war, you need leadership, organizational skills, the ability to get to people's heart (it's called charisma), he was an asshole, but a charismatic asshole, he was a lunatic, but a smart lunatic. Nobody can fill his shoes, yes, it doesn't mean that terrorism or even Al Qaeda are done, but it's a big blow.
At the end of the day, they are all the same, those leaders are not afraid to send others to die for them, because they think they are ok, they are safe, that is not true anymore. During the cold war, there was a tacit understanding that the high-ranked leaders were not targets, nobody would targer the CIA's director or his equivalent in the KGB. That changed, and you know who changed it? the Israeslis.
Hamas was reckless attacking Israel, suicide bombers striking on buses, night clubs, anywhere, the Israeslis retaliated only to be followed but yet another attack. Then they got it, if you want to kill the snake, cut off the head. They went after the leaders and started killing them one by one by missile strikes. That caused two problems to them, one, leaders were increasingly more difficult to replace, and they started to get scared.
The turning point is when they killed Hamas' spiritual leader, his successor vowed revenge, said that they would retaliate (like they weren't not killing already), only to be killed himself a few days later. The message was clear, if you were a leader and there was a terrorist attack, you could expect that sooner or later a missile would hit you. The attacks stopped, completely, only the usual ineffective barrage or rockets, designed more to show they are doing something, and Hamas is not even doing that anymore, a lot of rethoric, no action because they know they are killed.
Now, back to Al qaeda, supposing there is a capable leader that can take over without an internal fight, if Bin Laden can be killed so can anybody else. How much does the CIA know? how much they can trust the Pakistanis? that's in the back of their mind, trust me. They are not done, but this is the beginning of the end for them.
One final note, I thought first that while Bin Laden is undoubtedly dead, he was killed long ago and now they mounted this to finally admit that, but what convinced me that wasn't the case is why would Obama do that now and not closer to the elections? No, I think they got the bastard, I am not sure if it's exactly as described but he is dead, and Al Qaeda is going to miss him.

Fingon
May 3rd, 2011, 12:53 AM
Firstly, because I think that everyone, no matter how much of a brutal killer, has the right to a fair trial and has the right to try to defend themselves in a fair and equal court. Also, I think every person, no matter how horrible, has the right to a dignified death (he surely would have received the death sentence). If these two things come to lack, especially when we are talking about a death caused by a State (which the US military/SEALS or whatever represents), it's just mere and petty vengeance. I don't really buy the whole "firefight" crap, Osama was wanted dead.

I don't agree but I won't argue this point. BTW, there wasn't an excuse that he was killed in a firefight, it's clear that the order was to take him down. They said he had two bullets in the head, sounds like an execution to me, well deserved.

This being said, people across the world and without distinction of sex, race and religion surely have the right to celebrate the capture of Osama Bin Laden.

he was killed, not captured :confused:

The reason why I think all these shenanigans (sp?) are ridiculous is because I seriously doubt that post-9/11 Osama really had a huge and central role in Al Qaeda, so having all these people dancing around, chanting "USA! USA!" and thinking that the days of their "living in terror" are over for good seems quite stupid to me :scratch: I really don't see how I'm lacking empathy. And not only do I believe that he didn't have a central role in Al Qaeda, I don't even think Al Qaeda is the biggest threat to US security (or at least, not a proportionate threat considering how much time/money/media craze has been invested in it).
it's only natural they would celebrate and feel patriotic, I wouldn't read too much into that. Osama Bin Laden was as important to Al Qaeda as Hitler was to nazi Germany, without Hitler there would have been no nazis in power, without Bin Laden there is no Al Qaeda.
If you said that Al Qaeda has lost a lot of its operational capability, then I will agree, but Bin Laden was still central to Al Qaeda and the reason it has survived so long.
As per Al Qaeda not being the biggest threat to US Security, that's debatable. Surely, the Russians or the Chinese are more dangerous, but they are not likely to attack. What other group or country has ever striked the US in its own soil? Since the independence war there have been no fight (except for the civil wars where foreigners had nothing to do) or killing in American territory by any foreign country or group until Al Qaeda did it, that's why it got significance among militants. The only exception was the first attack to the WTC that by all accounts failed, 9/11 was the first succesful one. The US has been attacked abroad, but never in US soil before 9/11.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 3rd, 2011, 12:56 AM
wow...without Bin Laden there's no Al Qaeda....good luck with that thinking :lol:

Ryan
May 3rd, 2011, 12:56 AM
:spit: Do you honestly believe this? Most of the al-Qaeda-related atrocities that have taken place in the past ten years (Bali, London, Madrid) have had very little to do with bin Laden, and were planned without his knowledge.

This isn't going to end until the USA and al-Qaeda leaders can come to some sort of agreement instead of both trying to use harm to overcome the other. The end is nowhere in sight if we carry on in the same vain.



:weirdo: You're too much. :lol:

Mattographer
May 3rd, 2011, 02:24 AM
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Ashi
May 3rd, 2011, 06:31 AM
The Iranians will soon have a nuke. Pakistan and India do as well and they are very close to that area
What's your point? :confused: :rolleyes:

The only reason why the relatively volatile Indian subcontitent is a bit stable right now, is because India and Pakistan have nukes. If we didn't, we would have gone to war several times. At least India have had good reason too. ( Kargil 1999 and 2008 attacks).

Nukes in the current scenario provide a major detriment to war rather than a fear of war taking place.

Although, if Pakistan's nukes get into the hands of extremists is another issue altogether. :scared:

For all their duplicity, the Pakistan Army and ISI will never let that happen.

MaBaker
May 3rd, 2011, 07:35 AM
The US is so random - first the entire population of Iraq, Gaddafi's three grandchildren the other day, Osama today... I suppose they kill a right one after every couple of hundred thousands of innocent ones.
That all doesn't matter now. Osama is dead. It's all good.
but to say that people who suffered because of the hand of this man have no right to feel relief of even to celebrate is just judgment and ignorant. it shows a self righteous lack of empathy... the worst kind.
Just as celebrating someone's death.

Daruma.
May 3rd, 2011, 07:42 AM
we know this is not the end. but this is the beginning of the end. and that is something to celebrate.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Osama Bin Laden is not an operational person anymore, so the planning will be done by the other al-Qaeda members. Knowing the structure of al-Qaeda, one should understand that the death of Osama bin Laden will not hold the terrorists back from their actions -killing many civils, bombing, torturing etc. The structure of the al-Qaeda shows us that they work like cells, with each cell making their own decisions and taking their own actions seperately.

Martian Jeza
May 3rd, 2011, 07:44 AM
Benazir Bhutto a few years back said OBL was already murdered and then got assassinated !

Some numerology : 1st of May 1945 Hitler found dead - 1st of May 2011 Osama for the I don't know how many times found dead ! 1st of may 1776 The Illuminati was founded ! Coincidence ??? Certainly NOT !

Do you think by this the wars will stop ? Of course not ! There will be more wars in sight ! And the troops will stay at Afghanistan and Iraq !

Obama or I should say Barry Soetoro ( his real name ) just after giving a fake birth certificate and having such low poll appreciation comes with this news as he was the savior, the lord !

Keep being asleep sheeple !

And no Edward the degenerated freemason, don't come and teach me a lesson here !

Islam isn't my biggest ennemy, the New World Order is !

Talula
May 3rd, 2011, 07:44 AM
My understanding is that Bin Laden did not represent the majority of muslims. Indeed, I heard that many Afghans hated him for what he did to their country. He also brought hatred and murder to many other countries, and many cases went unreported on a large scale.

He was a mass murderer and a coward. Had any other mass murderer been on the run and was deemed dangerous he/she would also have been taken down in such a situation.

For me this has nothing to do with religion. The world is a better place without him and his killing was just.

Martian Jeza
May 3rd, 2011, 07:56 AM
The Iranians will soon have a nuke. Pakistan and India do as well and they are very close to that area

Israel the Zionist state has loads of Nukes and nobody thinks it's anormal ! And no Iran won't have nukes like Israël ! You are misinformed there !

Bismarck.
May 3rd, 2011, 11:59 AM
:weirdo: You're too much. :lol:

:lol: How? Do you honestly think this is the 'beginning of the end'?

GrafMariaPetraK
May 3rd, 2011, 12:24 PM
The Truth About bin Laden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM3Z1lWMeRI&feature=player_embeddedIt took the US government 10 years, 2 wars, almost a million deaths, and over $1.1 trillion (interest and inflation not included) to kill one person.

M.S.F
May 3rd, 2011, 12:34 PM
My understanding is that Bin Laden did not represent the majority of muslims. Indeed, I heard that many Afghans hated him for what he did to their country. He also brought hatred and murder to many other countries, and many cases went unreported on a large scale.

He was a mass murderer and a coward. Had any other mass murderer been on the run and was deemed dangerous he/she would also have been taken down in such a situation.

For me this has nothing to do with religion. The world is a better place without him and his killing was just.

There is no doubt about that.
People here in Saudi Arabia are pretty much divided with their opinion on his death just like anywhere else.
There was a religious man today on the news who said that his death "must" be celebrated by every Muslim :tape: :help:
I say forget him just like the last few years.
His death doesn't make alot of difference to the problems of the world obviously.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 3rd, 2011, 02:19 PM
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King Jr.

:worship:

Wigglytuff
May 3rd, 2011, 02:21 PM
Changed, it's definitely better to put just a link for this picture :)

thank you!!! i REALLY appreciate that!

Wigglytuff
May 3rd, 2011, 02:31 PM
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King Jr.

this sounds like a fake quote and it probably is.

Apoleb
May 3rd, 2011, 02:32 PM
There is no doubt about that.
People here in Saudi Arabia are pretty much divided with their opinion on his death just like anywhere else.
There was a religious man today on the news who said that his death "must" be celebrated by every Muslim :tape: :help:
I say forget him just like the last few years.
His death doesn't make alot of difference to the problems of the world obviously.

http://pewglobal.org/files/2011/05/2011-bin-laden-01.png

He has little support in the Muslim world. But interestingly enough, Nigeria is the exception.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM
this sounds like a fake quote and it probably is.

it is a fake quote as in that isn't what he actually said, however, it was the inspiration someone took from the words he actually said:


"And the other thing is, I'm concerned about a better world. I'm concerned about justice; I'm concerned about brotherhood; I'm concerned about truth. (That’s right) And when one is concerned about that, he can never advocate violence. For through violence you may murder a murderer, but you can't murder murder. (Yes) Through violence you may murder a liar, but you can't establish truth. (That's right) Through violence you may murder a hater, but you can't murder hate through violence. (All right, That’s right) Darkness cannot put out darkness; only light can do that. [applause]"

"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction." Martin Luther King Jr.

for that person, taking MLK Jrs words, he realised that celebrating the death of someone, no matter how evil, doesn't erase the root of the problem...so the names at the end shouldn't be MLK...but it doesn't make the quote any less true because he didn't say it

Wigglytuff
May 3rd, 2011, 03:32 PM
it is a fake quote as in that isn't what he actually said, however, it was the inspiration someone took from the words he actually said:


"And the other thing is, I'm concerned about a better world. I'm concerned about justice; I'm concerned about brotherhood; I'm concerned about truth. (That’s right) And when one is concerned about that, he can never advocate violence. For through violence you may murder a murderer, but you can't murder murder. (Yes) Through violence you may murder a liar, but you can't establish truth. (That's right) Through violence you may murder a hater, but you can't murder hate through violence. (All right, That’s right) Darkness cannot put out darkness; only light can do that. [applause]"

right but thats VERY different than the prior quote. the message is not the same. its not even similar. indeed, takes away from what he actually said. which didnt have anything to do what is going on.

indeed the quote seems to be saying lets not even kill bin laden. which i do not think most people would agree with. most people would with good reason reject that outright.

however the message that we have to prioritize peacekeeping IS something that we can all get behind. so such hoaxes about MLK dont help us, they dont help his memory and they dont teach us anything. so it is important to stick to the facts and talk about things based on facts not myth.


-----

anyway this is my original post on this topic:


the internet is a great place for fake quotes. i have heard this quote for the first time yesternday. and i have asked EVERY time i heard it for information about it. because i can think of ZERO point in MLKs lifetime where he would have been compelled to say anything anywhere near that. the closest i can come to it is in reaction to be malcolm x's reaction to the death of JFK but thats not right for obvious reasons. so then when and where is this quote from?

a google search for this quote that excludes bin laden 9/11 or anything to do with the that yields only a few sites... all of which talk about bin laden. this then leads me to believe this is a fake quote for people who want to shut down the (i think valid) debate about whether it is proper to feel joy at the death of a monster. this then reminds me that on 9/11 a fake qoute about Nostradamus was born where he 100% predicted 9/11, except that the quote was written after and not before. so long story short. you heard it here first. the quote is likely a fake.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/



Shortly after I posted my piece on feeling curiously un-thrilled about Bin Laden's death, the following quote came across my twitter feed:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King, Jr

I admire the sentiment. But something about it just strikes me as off, like that great Marx quote about the housing bubble that didn't appear anywhere in Das Kapital.

Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism. Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867

Like the Marx quote, it's a bit too a propos. What "thousands" would King have been talking about? In which enemy's death was he supposed to be rejoicing?

Osama Bin Laden
A quick Google search turns up lots of tweets, all of them from today. Searching Martin Luther King Jr. quote pages for the word "enemy" does not turn up this quote, only things that probably wouldn't go over nearly so well, like "Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy to a friend." I'm pretty sure that this quote, too, is fake.

What's fascinating is the speed of it. Someone made up a quote, attributed it to MLK, Jr., and disseminated it widely, all within 24 hours. Why? What do you get out of saying something pithy, and getting no credit for it?

Perhaps they only wanted to say this thing, and knew that no one would pay attention unless it came from someone else. Or, perhaps they are getting a gargantuan kick out of seeing people repeat their lie ad infinitum. Either way, it seems strange to me.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 3rd, 2011, 04:50 PM
you get so self righteous it's hilare :lol: how can you tell someone not to get that inspiration from his quote... indeed some people don't think killing killing killing solves any issues (what MLK said) and therefore that's what someone got from it (shock and awe i know)....because guess what, some people don't wish death on their worst enemies...

again, should the person have put MLK after it...no....but it doesn't make the statement any less true... i'm surre if a lot of the countries the us attacked under various presidents celebrated when said presidents died, that tune would change and be about the insensitivity of people in the face of death of a human being...

Wigglytuff
May 3rd, 2011, 05:09 PM
you get so self righteous it's hilare :lol: how can you tell someone not to get that inspiration from his quote...

no. try again. i am saying ITS NOT HIS QUOTE. he never made that statement that is attributed to him.

this is a fact.

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King Jr.

MLK NEVER said this. this is now a solid fact. you accepted this.

how does stating a fact make me or ANYONE self righteous? it doesnt.

you posted praise for something that wasnt true. you are not alone. its human to make mistakes. but we have to be aware of them as mistakes and learn from them. what SHOULD be learned from this is that who MLK ACTUALLY was is for more interesting than some fake quote.

there is nothing self righteous about the truth. mlk never said that. period.

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy."

if you wanna say this is a quote you agree with thats fine, of course i can understand it.

Ashi
May 3rd, 2011, 05:11 PM
'An Eye For An Eye Makes The Whole World Blind'.- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.(1869 - 1948)

M.S.F
May 3rd, 2011, 06:07 PM
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4281/20110503210433.jpg

azdaja
May 3rd, 2011, 06:24 PM
a lot of people around the world celebrated when their tormentor, the country that killed their loved ones, was hit by terror attacks on the 11th of september 2001. until they realised how horrible that act was. will americans try to even consider that there is nothing to celebrate about the death of this idiot?

people don't need to feel sorry for him (i mean, does anyone?), it's totally ok to quietly say "good riddance", feel that it was a big victory for justice or whatever, but some of the celebrations looked pretty jingoist to me and i am not the only one who thinks so. no congratulations from me, america, i'm afraid. i will congratulate you when guantánamo is closed and when american troops pull out of iraq and afghanistan. until then this is the continuation of the same militarist policies. you know, the ones that lead to the rise of al-qaeda in the first place. bin laden's death comes 10 years and several wars too late to really make a difference. those wars already made al-qaeda much stronger than it used to be back then and an ideology can live even if its founder is dead.

also, if bin laden enjoys 20% support in some countries in the middle east that's far from a little :o

azdaja
May 3rd, 2011, 06:28 PM
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4281/20110503210433.jpg
this.

Sp!ffy
May 3rd, 2011, 07:28 PM
"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction." Martin Luther King Jr.


Yes! Well said. :worship::worship::worship::worship:

What is the lesson learned in all of this? "Don't mess with America or we'll get you back"? We may have won this battle but we further entrenched ourselves in the even deeper war of hate and violence. :scared:

The Dawntreader
May 3rd, 2011, 08:17 PM
Still a world in peril. Osama was just the tip of the ice-berg. The stems of terrorism are too embedded, and no fallen leader will change that.

I do worry about the reaction to all this though. This is a very serious, humanistic event. It's not a cartoon where the bad guy eats shit.

Hurley
May 4th, 2011, 02:24 AM
'An Eye For An Eye Makes The Whole World Blind'.- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.(1869 - 1948)

An eye for 2977 eyes is awesome.

kiwifan
May 4th, 2011, 02:53 AM
I love the way so many self important posters are trying to dictate how everyone should feel.

Lets be honest some of you don't like it when Americans are happy about pretty much anything, as a nation. ;) If you grieve for Osama, that's your business...

I'm happy the fucker is dead and had a few beers in dedication to our Commander in Chief and the Troops who took him out (of course I was already in a bar when I heard the news)...then thought about the friend I lost in Tower 2.

Sure there will be more terrorism eventually regardless of if we dance in the streets or apologize to the world for being greedy Corporate bastards...

...so for now I say, well done President Obama, well done Seals...America, Fuck Yeah!!!

Mattographer
May 4th, 2011, 03:02 AM
I didn't know it's a fake quote but I got it from Facebook :lol:

Whatever, I still agree with the quote.

pov
May 4th, 2011, 03:47 AM
Wait . . you mean the establishment has decided it's a good time to claim that it has killed Osama. :haha:

It's amazing that after the WMD fiasco people still buy whatever the official line is. PT Barnum was off - it's more like one every second.

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 04:20 AM
An eye for 2977 eyes is awesome.

Surely, you know far more than 2977 lives were lost. Americans, Afghani, Iraqi, Pakistani. Did you celebrate on their behalf as well?

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

azdaja
May 4th, 2011, 10:52 AM
I love the way so many self important posters are trying to dictate how everyone should feel.

Lets be honest some of you don't like it when Americans are happy about pretty much anything, as a nation. ;) If you grieve for Osama, that's your business...

I'm happy the fucker is dead and had a few beers in dedication to our Commander in Chief and the Troops who took him out (of course I was already in a bar when I heard the news)...then thought about the friend I lost in Tower 2.

Sure there will be more terrorism eventually regardless of if we dance in the streets or apologize to the world for being greedy Corporate bastards...

...so for now I say, well done President Obama, well done Seals...America, Fuck Yeah!!!
why am i not surprised that a post this stupid comes from you? it is utterly silly that you call people "self important" given your own arrogance which doesn't go well with shallowness of your intellect.

because yeah, everybody "dictates" everything to americans, america always takes into account what the rest of the world thinks and not vice versa. people don't want america "as a nation" to be happy and grieve for osama instead :facepalm: and of course there will be terrorism no matter what americans do, because america has become the main target for terrorist for that simple reason - everybody is just jealous of america, the greatest nation that has ever existed :worship: hail everything about it and especially its military and there is no way in hell that its military is the main reason some people dislike that glorious nation. remember, it's just jealousy. them haters :ras: not to mention that americans were the only victims of al-qaeda and bin laden ever, so accordingly, they are the only ones who are likely to :aparty: while others who often feel discomfort because of this can't understand it.

your post sums up plenty of things that are wrong with the way america "as a nation" deals with the rest of the world, though, i'll give you that.

edit: "aparty" smilie :rolleyes:

Apoleb
May 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM
I love the way so many self important posters are trying to dictate how everyone should feel.

Lets be honest some of you don't like it when Americans are happy about pretty much anything, as a nation. ;) If you grieve for Osama, that's your business...

I'm happy the fucker is dead and had a few beers in dedication to our Commander in Chief and the Troops who took him out (of course I was already in a bar when I heard the news)...then thought about the friend I lost in Tower 2.

Sure there will be more terrorism eventually regardless of if we dance in the streets or apologize to the world for being greedy Corporate bastards...

...so for now I say, well done President Obama, well done Seals...America, Fuck Yeah!!!

Just plain STUPID, as usual, kiwifan. :lol:

Totally missing the point. Maybe if you get over the jingoism that you think is so cool and the Oh America is the best!!!@2 and you are h8erz11, you'd be able to think slightly more deeply about what it means to be human.

Apoleb
May 4th, 2011, 11:08 AM
An eye for 2977 eyes is awesome.

Well, hmmm, let's pretend for a second that thousands of eyes in Afghanistan haven't been blown up in the search for Osama, there's still something disturbing about killing any person and calling it "awesome" or acting like it's somebody's birthday. It demands more reflection than this. Ultimately what makes Bin Laden so heinous is his disregard for human life and suffering, and of course, the blind happy folk aren't nearly as guilty in this, but you get the gist.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 01:30 PM
:facepalm:

Pureracket
May 4th, 2011, 01:45 PM
Well, hmmm, let's pretend for a second that thousands of eyes in Afghanistan haven't been blown up in the search for Osama, there's still something disturbing about killing any person and calling it "awesome" or acting like it's somebody's birthday. It demands more reflection than this. Ultimately what makes Bin Laden so heinous is his disregard for human life and suffering, and of course, the blind happy folk aren't nearly as guilty in this, but you get the gist.I think you're at risk of oversimplifying and minimizing this situation when you break it down to people simply celebrating the death of OBL. (I could be misinterpreting your argument, but I think that's what you're saying).

I can only speak for Americans when I say that OBL was the face of terrorism in this country, and he represented a psychological defeat that had been eating away at the minds of Americans since the 9/11 bombings. The celebrations on Sunday were not just people "acting like it's somebody's birthday." It was a collective sigh and exhale of people thinking that, sometimes, evil can be defeated. To many of us, OBL wasn't a man. He was the evil symbol of what changed this country.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 01:57 PM
I think you're at risk of oversimplifying and minimizing this situation when you break it down to people simply celebrating the death of OBL. (I could be misinterpreting your argument, but I think that's what you're saying).

I can only speak for Americans when I say that OBL was the face of terrorism in this country, and he represented a psychological defeat that had been eating away at the minds of Americans since the 9/11 bombings. The celebrations on Sunday were not just people "acting like it's somebody's birthday." It was a collective sigh and exhale of people thinking that, sometimes, evil can be defeated. To many of us, OBL wasn't a man. He was the evil symbol of what changed this country.

so it wasn't killing hundreds of thousands of viatnamese, it wasn't your own support of OBL that suited your needs when he killed thousands of innocents, it wasn't when the us used africans and latin americans, and their own poor as guinea pigs for drug testing....it's OBL that is the only thing that made america change and feel that evil can't be defeated...

Pureracket
May 4th, 2011, 02:03 PM
so it wasn't killing hundreds of thousands of viatnamese, it wasn't your own support of OBL that suited your needs when he killed thousands of innocents, it wasn't when the us used africans and latin americans, and their own poor as guinea pigs for drug testing....it's OBL that is the only thing that made america change and feel that evil can't be defeated...Again, I'm certainly not trying to validate anything wrong that my country has done. I participated in anti-war protests, and I certainly think the troops should leave Afghanistan - immediately.
However, my sentiments were towards the killing of OBL and how he has affected what I see happening around me.

Darop.
May 4th, 2011, 02:17 PM
I love the way so many self important posters are trying to dictate how everyone should feel.

Lets be honest some of you don't like it when Americans are happy about pretty much anything, as a nation. ;) If you grieve for Osama, that's your business...

I'm happy the fucker is dead and had a few beers in dedication to our Commander in Chief and the Troops who took him out (of course I was already in a bar when I heard the news)...then thought about the friend I lost in Tower 2.

Sure there will be more terrorism eventually regardless of if we dance in the streets or apologize to the world for being greedy Corporate bastards...

...so for now I say, well done President Obama, well done Seals...America, Fuck Yeah!!!

:speakles: :haha: :sobbing:


Please make this post be ironic.

Apoleb
May 4th, 2011, 02:26 PM
I think you're at risk of oversimplifying and minimizing this situation when you break it down to people simply celebrating the death of OBL. (I could be misinterpreting your argument, but I think that's what you're saying).

I can only speak for Americans when I say that OBL was the face of terrorism in this country, and he represented a psychological defeat that had been eating away at the minds of Americans since the 9/11 bombings. The celebrations on Sunday were not just people "acting like it's somebody's birthday." It was a collective sigh and exhale of people thinking that, sometimes, evil can be defeated. To many of us, OBL wasn't a man. He was the evil symbol of what changed this country.

Yes, and that's the issue. Evil is in action and deeds. As I said, ultimately it comes down to a process of dehumanization, and that's the real root of the evil. For OBL, America was also a "symbol of evil" and that was his rationale for mass murdering people. He was offended for his "God" that there are "disbelievers" in the world and that they had Muslim countries under their thumb.

Of course, this shouldn't mean that I think the two are the same. I think it's understandable that some people will show jubilation and celebrate, but I don't think that's the best reaction. I also don't think it's something distinctly American by any chance. I got emotional yesterday when I heard an interview by a mother of a 911 victim who, despite losing a son, showed a very profound understanding of collective humanity (or so to say) - unlike many who will just have a beer, celebrate and claim "America is da best!!". What I am saying is that reflection and restrain in the face of human death are preferred.

It's also sort of offensive to act that Americans were the only or major victims of Bin Laden. 10x more Pakistanis (and that's only in Pakistan) died in the last 10 years than the 911 victims. The extremist Muslim organizations have killed far more people in Muslim countries than in the "West".

Pureracket
May 4th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Yes, and that's the issue. Evil is in action and deeds. As I said, ultimately it comes down to a process of dehumanization, and that's the real root of the evil. For OBL, America was also a "symbol of evil" and that was his rationale for mass murdering people. He was offended for his "God" that there are "disbelievers" in the world and that they had Muslim countries under their thumb.

Of course, this shouldn't mean that I think the two are the same. I think it's understandable that some people will show jubilation and celebrate, but I don't think that's the best reaction. I also don't think it's something distinctly American by any chance. I got emotional yesterday when I heard an interview by a mother of a 911 victim who, despite losing a son, showed a very profound understanding of collective humanity (or so to say) - unlike many who will just have a beer, celebrate and claim "America is da best!!". What I am saying is that reflection and restrain in the face of human death are preferred.

It's also sort of offensive to act that Americans were the only or major victims of Bin Laden. 10x more Pakistanis (and that's only in Pakistan) died in the last 10 years than the 911 victims. The extremist Muslim organizations have killed far more people in Muslim countries than in the "West".
I'll start with your last paragraph first.

I'm confused as to how you could interpret celebrant Americans as "act[ing] that Americans were the only or major victims of Bin Laden." Yes, I think the Americans were celebrating the vindication of what happened on 9/11, but I didn't take it as somehow disregarding the pain that OBL caused to other people in other countries.

Though I agree with what you're saying about the human(e) side of this whole situation, I still think people are failing to realize the magnitude of fear and psychological anguish that OBL had on an entire generation of people. Again, you focus on a human side, but OBL simply transcended any concrete form of reference when it came to how he was thought of by millions of Americans. To a person looking in from the outside, the celebrations may have seem misplace and rather vulgar; however, that's often a case when people respond with extreme emotion.

Just as I don't think you're wrong for your instrospective approach to OBL's death, I hope you're giving the same consideration to the people who decide that it's appropriate to "just have a beer."

Brena
May 4th, 2011, 03:39 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/04/article-1383396-0BE736E400000578-739_634x368.jpg

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 03:43 PM
Surely, you know far more than 2977 lives were lost. Americans, Afghani, Iraqi, Pakistani. Did you celebrate on their behalf as well?

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

the notion that osama bin ladens life is worth just as much as the innocent pregnant mothers who died on 9/11 is replusive and grotesque. is the life of hitler worth the same as the lives of the 6 million he killed? should his death be treated with the same respect and reverence? if you think so there is more wrong with you than anyone on this board can fix.

Beat
May 4th, 2011, 03:58 PM
To many of us, OBL wasn't a man. He was the evil symbol of what changed this country.

you can't kill a symbol.

Pureracket
May 4th, 2011, 04:01 PM
you can't kill a symbol.It's possible to defeat/diminish/tarnish it, though, until it no longer becomes effective. The Navy SEALS took the first step towards accomplishing that on Sunday.

Apoleb
May 4th, 2011, 04:01 PM
I'll start with you last paragraph first.

I'm confused as how you could interpret celebrant Americans as "act[ing] that Americans were the only or major victims of Bin Laden." Yes, I think the Americans were celebrating the vindication of what happened on 9/11, but I didn't take it as somehow disregarding the pain that OBL caused to other people in other countries.

You misunderstood. I didn't make any relation between Americans on the street and disregarding OBL's other victims. Some people in this thread though are acting like OBL is America's problem and that "outsiders" shouldn't be addressing how his death is treated because (presumingly) they are unfamiliar with what Americans had to go through. Kiwifan's post obviously jumps to consideration.

Though I agree with what you're saying about the human(e) side of this whole situation, I still think people are failing to realize the magnitude of fear and psychological anguish that OBL had on an entire generation of people. Again, you focus on a human side, but OBL simply transcended any concrete form of reference when it came to how he was thought of by millions of Americans. To a person looking in from the outside, the celebrations may have seem misplace and rather vulgar; however, that's often a case when people respond with extreme emotion.

Again, though, I'd wager to say that many people outside America are held in even more fear and psychological anguish than Americans regarding OBL. Al Qaeda, and Islamic extremism in general. I don't think they are "looking from the outside". That also includes me. I also think you're overestimating the whole relation between people's empathy with the victims and their reaction to his death. Much of it is simply jingoism.


Just as I don't think you're wrong for your instrospective approach to OBL's death, I hope you're giving the same consideration to the people who decide that it's appropriate to "just have a beer."

Of course. Again, I said it's predictable and even understandable and I don't think it's an "American thing" by any stretch of the imagination. But because one can be empathetic and introspective, it doesn't mean he/she should hold himself from making judgments about what is right and what is wrong.

MaBaker
May 4th, 2011, 04:11 PM
the notion that osama bin ladens life is worth just as much as the innocent pregnant mothers who died on 9/11 is replusive and grotesque. is the life of hitler worth the same as the lives of the 6 million he killed? should his death be treated with the same respect and reverence? if you think so there is more wrong with you than anyone on this board can fix.
The poster you quoted didn't say anything like that. Far more lives are lost after September 11, than during that day. So it's not one life for 2977 lives, just as he/she said.

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 04:20 PM
the notion that osama bin ladens life is worth just as much as the innocent pregnant mothers who died on 9/11 is replusive and grotesque. is the life of hitler worth the same as the lives of the 6 million he killed? should his death be treated with the same respect and reverence? if you think so there is more wrong with you than anyone on this board can fix.
:help: :help: :help: :help:

Are you fucking kidding me? Talk about misinterpretation to the highest degree! :( :( :fiery:

Let me break it down for you. (English is not my first language) But i'll try.

I said, with the way the americans were celebrating in the street and going crazy, did you celebrate to avenge the death of only 2977 american lives? or did you forget about the several thousands of other nationalities who have died in this process.? Or do you think american lives are more equal than others?

Do not put words into others mouths, when they haven't said such things.

Get a grip of God Sake! :rolleyes: I won't reply to any other :bs: you spout.:tape:

Go back to school and learn to read. Because, i don't badrep posters.

I come from a city which has been subjected to various bombings, multiple times, and also had to endure a major terrorist attack in 2008. So, don't you tell me that I equate a life of a terrorist to various innocents who have lost their lives, in my own community and city. :mad:

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:29 PM
you can't kill a symbol.

He wasn't just a symbol. He was also the biggest individual financial backer of terrorism in the world....

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 04:34 PM
the notion that osama bin ladens life is worth just as much as the innocent pregnant mothers who died on 9/11 is replusive and grotesque. is the life of hitler worth the same as the lives of the 6 million he killed? should his death be treated with the same respect and reverence? if you think so there is more wrong with you than anyone on this board can fix.


wth :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 04:36 PM
He wasn't just a symbol. He was also the biggest individual financial backer of terrorism in the world....

who was financially aided and armed by the US... funny how you and some others always forget that ;)

Londoner
May 4th, 2011, 04:36 PM
the notion that osama bin ladens life is worth just as much as the innocent pregnant mothers who died on 9/11 is replusive and grotesque. is the life of hitler worth the same as the lives of the 6 million he killed? should his death be treated with the same respect and reverence? if you think so there is more wrong with you than anyone on this board can fix.

Agree.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:39 PM
:help: :help: :help: :help:

Are you fucking kidding me? Talk about misinterpretation to the higest degree! :( :( :fiery:

Or do you think american lives are more equal than others?

Were the Jews who died in the holocaust Americans or are being deliberately asinine? Once again the notion that hilter, bin laden or any other mister deserves any sort of reverence or respect in death is like your post asinine and retarded. Follow your own advice. No one said American lives are more equal than others I said civilian lives are worth more than the lives of terrorist monsters like bin laden and hitler. This is not rocket science. You want to pretend that the people who died in holocaust were Americans to make your retarded and asinine "point" than so be it. Knock yourself out.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:40 PM
who was financially aided and armed by the US... funny how you and some others always forget that ;)

The man was born rich. Don't be an idiot.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 04:43 PM
The man was born rich. Don't be an idiot.

you're the one being obtuse if you ignore the fact that the US backed him before when it suited them :lol: the US hands are NOT clean in all this

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Were the Jews who died in the holocaust Americans or are being deliberately asinine? Once again the notion that hilter, bin laden or any other mister deserves any sort of reverence or respect in death is like your post asinine and retarded. Follow your own advice. No one said American lives are more equal than others I said civilian lives are worth more than the lives of terrorist monsters like bin laden and hitler. This is not rocket science. You want to pretend that the people who died in holocaust were Americans to make your retarded and asinine "point" than so be it. Knock yourself out.

When did i say this? :lol:

I asked the concerned poster if he considered only 2977 americans as victims? Did he forget about the countless others? . I didn't quote your post. You quoted mine. So STFU.

And, Please get some help. :cuckoo:

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:52 PM
The poster you quoted didn't say anything like that. Far more lives are lost after September 11, than during that day. So it's not one life for 2977 lives, just as he/she said.

Actually he said EXACTLY that.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

Is the life of bin laden worth less than the lives of the 3,000 who died on that day and the millions who died as a result of that day? Yes fucking yeah. Is the life of hitler worth less, less "equal" than the livings of the 6 million Jews he killed? Hell fucking yeah. Bin laden is worth less than a donkey's shit.

The notion that his life is worth as much or deserves as much respect as a mother who died on 9/11 is as I said repugnant.

You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument than that bin ladens death is "equal" to any other death. The argument that bin ladens death is just like any other death and deserves the same respect is as I said repugnant and sick.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:54 PM
When did i say this? :lol:


Actually you said EXACTLY that.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

Is the life of bin laden worth less than the lives of the 3,000 who died on that day and the millions who died as a result of that day? Yes fucking yeah. Is the life of hitler worth less, less "equal" than the livings of the 6 million Jews he killed? Hell fucking yeah. Bin laden is worth less than a donkey's shit.

The notion that his life is worth as much or deserves as much respect as a mother who died on 9/11 is as I said repugnant.

You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument than that bin ladens death is "equal" to any other death. The argument that bin ladens death is just like any other death and deserves the same respect is as I said repugnant and sick.

MaBaker
May 4th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Actually he said EXACTLY that.
No. You are being a tool.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 04:57 PM
you're the one being obtuse

are saying he wasn't born insanely rich? Is like you saying MLK said something you made up?

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 04:59 PM
are saying he wasn't born insanely rich? Is like you saying MLK said something you made up?

are you just being like this for purpose? :lol: and where did i make up a quote? :lol: i can see why others don't like to make arguments with you

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 05:00 PM
No. You are being a tool.

A tool for what? The hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths this "equal" monster caused? I will gladly be a tool for innocent civilians. GLADLY.

The poster you quoted didn't say anything like that. Far more lives are lost after September 11, than during that day. So it's not one life for 2977 lives, just as he/she said.

Actually he said EXACTLY that.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

Is the life of bin laden worth less than the lives of the 3,000 who died on that day and the millions who died as a result of that day? Yes fucking yeah. Is the life of hitler worth less, less "equal" than the livings of the 6 million Jews he killed? Hell fucking yeah. Bin laden is worth less than a donkey's shit.

The notion that his life is worth as much or deserves as much respect as a mother who died on 9/11 is as I said repugnant.

You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument than that bin ladens death is "equal" to any other death. The argument that bin ladens death is just like any other death and deserves the same respect is as I said repugnant and sick.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 05:02 PM
are you just being like this for purpose? :lol: and where did i make up a quote? :lol: i can see why others don't like to make arguments with you

So you are not going to answer the question... Are you saying he was NOT born insanely rich?

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:03 PM
Actually he said EXACTLY that.

:lol: :lol: No i didnt!.

Is the life of bin laden worth less than the lives of the 3,000 who died on that day and the millions who died as a result of that day? Yes fucking yeah. Is the life of hitler worth less, less "equal" than the livings of the 6 million Jews he killed? Hell fucking yeah. Bin laden is worth less than a donkey's shit.
I agree.

The notion that his life is worth as much or deserves as much respect as a mother who died on 9/11 is as I said repugnant.

You said this, not I.

You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument than that bin ladens death is "equal" to any other death. The argument that bin ladens death is just like any other death and deserves the same respect is as I said repugnant and sick.
When the fuck did i talk about Bin Laden and his loss of life. Did you even read my posts? :help:

For the last time, I asked him/her if 2977 american victims were more equal than millions of others in his book? There should be respect and reverance, and relief, felt/given to all victims and their loved ones, not just american ones. Please get this through your thick skull.

If you can't comprehend this, then i have no hope for you. :wavey:

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:07 PM
You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument
I did think that the celebrations were over the top and the rhetoric, jingoistic. But then, i can sympathize.

MaBaker
May 4th, 2011, 05:10 PM
Actually he said EXACTLY that.

Is the life of bin laden worth less than the lives of the 3,000 who died on that day and the millions who died as a result of that day? Yes fucking yeah. Is the life of hitler worth less, less "equal" than the livings of the 6 million Jews he killed? Hell fucking yeah. Bin laden is worth less than a donkey's shit.

The notion that his life is worth as much or deserves as much respect as a mother who died on 9/11 is as I said repugnant.

You wanna argue that the celebrations are inappropriate for the occasion that's a COMPLETELY different argument than that bin ladens death is "equal" to any other death. The argument that bin ladens death is just like any other death and deserves the same respect is as I said repugnant and sick.
Yet again... Show me the post from Ashi in which he/she said anything about Bin Laden's life being worth less/more... You are quoting the wrong post for that.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 05:14 PM
In the past to post you said 5 different things.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

When you decide if you said this or not. Or if you agree or disagree with your own statement let the rest of us know because I cant argue with you if this statement is bs or not if you yourself don't know if you agree with your own statement

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:18 PM
I clarified my position with my limited english posting skills. If you still choose to misinterpret my post and try to be deliberately asinine and take it out of context, i can't help you there. :lol:

Knock yourself out. :wavey:

MaBaker
May 4th, 2011, 05:19 PM
In the past to post you said 5 different things.



When you decide if you said this or not. Or if you agree or disagree with your own statement let the rest of us know because I cant argue with you if this statement is bs or not if you yourself don't know if you agree with your own statement
Well, now it makes sense.

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:21 PM
In the past to post you said 5 different things.
When you decide if you said this or not. Or if you agree or disagree with your own statement let the rest of us know because I cant argue with you if this statement is bs or not if you yourself don't know if you agree with your own statement
By 'some' lives, I meant the victims of other nationalities. Not bin Laden! :cuckoo:

Do you need more simpler english?

Have you comprehended this now. :) or not!? :help:

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 05:32 PM
I clarified my position with my limited english posting skills. If you still choose to misinterpret my post and try to be deliberately asinine and take it out of context, i can't help you there. :lol:

Knock yourself out. :wavey:

Oh don't play that game, don't hide behind your english. Basically you are a judgmental hypocrite who critizied someone for having feeling something they ddid say they felt but when pressed you admit you feel.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

You accused another of feeling this as a low brow way to make a point the other poster never stated (that those who died as a direct result of the wars bin ladens actions caused ) were not worthy the way that Americans who did in 9/11, which again the poster NEVER said. To that end you without thinking, because it's clear you don't think about what you are saying, you find your having said that bin ladens death matters just as much as any other.

Rather than being an adult and admitting that you were playing a game, you get caught up losing that very same game. And saying you both agree and disagree with the same statement you made.

Or do you think that some lives are more equal than others?

Now you want to claim it was just your English, but when you use idioms like "knock yourself out" your english is fine.

Wigglytuff
May 4th, 2011, 05:35 PM
By 'some' lives, I meant the victims of other nationalities. Not bin Laden! :cuckoo:

Do you need more simpler english?

Have you comprehended this now. :) or not!? :help:

I am well aware that you don't mean what you say and you say things you don't mean. You don't need to say that anymore clearly.

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:40 PM
To that end you without thinking, because it's clear you don't think about what you are saying, you find your having said that bin ladens death matters just as much as any other.
Rather than being an adult and admitting that you were playing a game, you get caught up losing that very same game. And saying you both agree and disagree with the same statement you made.

:haha::haha::haha:

Someone let the loony out today. :tape:

Apoleb
May 4th, 2011, 05:41 PM
:facepalm:

Ashi
May 4th, 2011, 05:42 PM
I am well aware that you don't mean what you say and you say things you don't mean. You don't need to say that anymore clearly.
You misinterpreted my post. I clarified my stance. Isn't that what a forum is for? :lol: :lol:

Expat
May 4th, 2011, 05:45 PM
I see the resident clown of Political Subforum has struck in this thread too.

BuTtErFrEnA
May 4th, 2011, 06:18 PM
:haha::haha::haha:

Someone let the loony out today. :tape:


clearly :lol: just give up

King Halep
May 4th, 2011, 06:37 PM
The most interesting thing coming out of all this is Pakistan's role. Could they have the most wanted terrorist living right in their backyard without them knowing? The answer seems to be in Pakistan anything is possible :haha:

azdaja
May 4th, 2011, 09:27 PM
another "self important poster", german foreign minister, warned that we should not send to the world pictures that could make bin laden look like a hero to plenty of people.

you gotta appreciate it. germans started 2 world wars and today they are sensible while the nation that helped defeat them in both is very jingoist :help:

anyway, there are reports that bin laden's 12 yo daughter witnessed how he was captured and then killed. if this is true then the entire action looks even worse.

Fingon
May 5th, 2011, 01:56 AM
anyway, there are reports that bin laden's 12 yo daughter witnessed how he was captured and then killed. if this is true then the entire action looks even worse.
I normally agree with you, but not in this one.
Bin Laden was a terrorist, a mass murderer, what would have been the point of taking him alive? waterboarding him to get more information? Or let's have a public trial so he can use as a forum to spread his bs? and encourage every extremist in the world to push for his release?
Beside that, he did deserve to die, a bullet in his head is what he needed (that is, to be kind). If his daugher was there, it was his choice. By sending terrorists to crash planes against buildings he clearly, very clearly made himself a target, if it wasn't a bullet it would have been a missile, or a bomb. That monster had to die, not only as an act of justice (or revenge if you prefer), but for practical reasons, he is more valuable dead than alive, he (IMO) cannot be replaced. It's the only way to stop him. Again, he was one of the main targets of the most powerful country in the world, anybody near him was in danger, and simply witnessing how he was killed is the least she could have endured.
(if it were the IDF rather than the navy seals, she probably would be in pieces).

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 02:18 AM
another "self important poster", german foreign minister, warned that we should not send to the world pictures that could make bin laden look like a hero to plenty of people.

you gotta appreciate it. germans started 2 world wars and today they are sensible while the nation that helped defeat them in both is very jingoist :help:

anyway, there are reports that bin laden's 12 yo daughter witnessed how he was captured and then killed. if this is true then the entire action looks even worse.

Germans are very sensitive to this issue and have been metaphorically emasculated. It's a completely different world today than it was 60-70 years ago. I'm sure there's still a German jingoism that goes on there. Jingoism is common in most countries, I gather.

In The Zone
May 5th, 2011, 02:28 AM
I agree with the Obama administration with their decision to not release the photos for two reasons:

1) It would show Bin Laden as a martyr. That would be counterproductive for numerous reasons ....

2) It would make us just as evil, in some eyes, as bin Laden.

Chalk up another victory for Obama. It took him a while to get rolling but damn. :yeah:

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 02:35 AM
They already showed him as a martyr by killing him in cold blood. Might as well release the photos. People thought 9/11 was a hoax. I'm sure many ignorants will think Bin Laden's death is as well.

Daniela-Is-Mine
May 5th, 2011, 02:52 AM
They already showed him as a martyr by killing him in cold blood. Might as well release the photos. People thought 9/11 was a hoax. I'm sure many ignorants will think Bin Laden's death is as well.

In cold blood? We're in a war, he was in hiding for 10 years... its not like he was defenseless, he was well aware they were after him for both attacks on the World Trade Center.

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 03:00 AM
I'm just saying they could have captured him and took him to trial. They didn't choose to use that route. I'm not gung-ho on the death penalty or just killing people. Regardless of what he was responsible for. I'm not much a fan of murder in any way or circumstance.

In The Zone
May 5th, 2011, 03:08 AM
I'm just saying they could have captured him and took him to trial. They didn't choose to use that route. I'm not gung-ho on the death penalty or just killing people. Regardless of what he was responsible for. I'm not much a fan of murder in any way or circumstance.

They had no idea what the house would be like once they invaded. We are in war. This is what happened. I agree, it'd be ideal to have kept him alive, tortured him for a while, learned everything he thought and knew, and moved forward to end this impossible war.

However, I'm equally pleased with this outcome. Ask a 9/11 victim's family.

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 03:12 AM
They had no idea what the house would be like once they invaded. We are in war. This is what happened. I agree, it'd be ideal to have kept him alive, tortured him for a while, learned everything he thought and knew, and moved forward to end this impossible war.

However, I'm equally pleased with this outcome. Ask a 9/11 victim's family.

They didn't know what to expect. But there's no doubt in my mind the mission was to kill him. That's why the first lies came out about him brandishing a weapon? A firefight? Him using a human shield? Get crucial. They were just looking for excuses why they killed him. Some people are cool with that. But me? Not so much. OBL has nothing to do with the war at hand. This war will never end. The Americans should learn from the Soviets' failed excursion into Afghanistan and withdraw as soon as possible. Like yesterday. :o

Martian Jeza
May 5th, 2011, 04:04 AM
1st may 1945 Hitler found dead ! 1st may 2011 Bin Laden "killed" ! 66 years ago ! Long live the occult !

delicatecutter
May 5th, 2011, 04:50 AM
Yep. And Diet Coke will kill you. And you're still a virgin at almost 31. God, I can't imagine why. :sobbing:

SloKid
May 5th, 2011, 09:08 AM
1st may 1945 Hitler found dead ! 1st may 2011 Bin Laden "killed" ! 66 years ago ! Long live the occult !
I can go one further, April 29th 1945 Hitler weds Eva Braun, April 29th 2011 Prince William in honour of his German heritage weds Catherine Middleton.

Like totally zoinks. :eek: :eek:

Imagine how much better your theory would sound if Hitler actually died on May 1st and not on April 30th. :awww:

fifiricci
May 5th, 2011, 09:38 AM
I'm just saying they could have captured him and took him to trial. They didn't choose to use that route. I'm not gung-ho on the death penalty or just killing people. Regardless of what he was responsible for. I'm not much a fan of murder in any way or circumstance.

Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

azdaja
May 5th, 2011, 09:42 AM
I normally agree with you, but not in this one.
Bin Laden was a terrorist, a mass murderer, what would have been the point of taking him alive? waterboarding him to get more information? Or let's have a public trial so he can use as a forum to spread his bs? and encourage every extremist in the world to push for his release?
Beside that, he did deserve to die, a bullet in his head is what he needed (that is, to be kind). If his daugher was there, it was his choice. By sending terrorists to crash planes against buildings he clearly, very clearly made himself a target, if it wasn't a bullet it would have been a missile, or a bomb. That monster had to die, not only as an act of justice (or revenge if you prefer), but for practical reasons, he is more valuable dead than alive, he (IMO) cannot be replaced. It's the only way to stop him. Again, he was one of the main targets of the most powerful country in the world, anybody near him was in danger, and simply witnessing how he was killed is the least she could have endured.
(if it were the IDF rather than the navy seals, she probably would be in pieces).
the point of not killing a man you have captured alive is being better than them terrorists. the nobel peace prize winner has once again shown that nobel peace prize is a major joke and that the nation that's supposed to lead the world is more than happy to stoop to the level of the ones it pretends to fight against. people who say that the us acts like a world policeman don't get it. the us acts like a mafia don. that doesn't make the world a better place. and that's not irrelevant. and while i agree bin laden deserved to die (preferably not in this way, though), i'm pretty sure he didn't mind it either.

as for him spreading his bullshit at a trial, he would only be able to spread his bullshit because half of it actually makes sense. you know, american wars in iraq, afghanistan, american support for israel and arab dictatorships etc. he already recorded enough videos with the same message anyway.

and no, i do not think this represents a major blow to al-qaeda. most of the experts say the same.

Germans are very sensitive to this issue and have been metaphorically emasculated. It's a completely different world today than it was 60-70 years ago. I'm sure there's still a German jingoism that goes on there. Jingoism is common in most countries, I gather.
germany is among the last nations that come to my mind when the word jingoism is mentioned. i guess losing a war and thinking about attrocities your armies committed helps.

We're in a war
technically speaking you are not. the war on terror was a term coined by that genius george bush which other people stupidly accepted, but it still makes no sense. you need at least 2 armies for a war and terrorists are not an army by any stretch of the word.

azdaja
May 5th, 2011, 09:51 AM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?
it's not really that new, they tried to kill gadaffi back in the 1980's already and a few days ago again :shrug: they killed members of his family instead on both occasions :tape: assassins are usually considered terrorists, but if a state is doing it it's ok, right?

people really need to think about a broader picture, though, you are right about that.

Wigglytuff
May 5th, 2011, 11:14 AM
They already showed him as a martyr by killing him in cold blood. Might as well release the photos. People thought 9/11 was a hoax. I'm sure many ignorants will think Bin Laden's death is as well.

oh lord!!! :help:

Martian Jeza
May 5th, 2011, 11:32 AM
I can go one further, April 29th 1945 Hitler weds Eva Braun, April 29th 2011 Prince William in honour of his German heritage weds Catherine Middleton.

Like totally zoinks. :eek: :eek:

Imagine how much better your theory would sound if Hitler actually died on May 1st and not on April 30th. :awww:

I won't feed you, I'm sorry : Do you think that everything happening on earth is the truth ? Ohhhh !

BuTtErFrEnA
May 5th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

yes :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
May 5th, 2011, 12:19 PM
it's not really that new, they tried to kill gadaffi back in the 1980's already and a few days ago again :shrug: they killed members of his family instead on both occasions :tape: assassins are usually considered terrorists, but if a state is doing it it's ok, right?

people really need to think about a broader picture, though, you are right about that.

and talk about it with absolutely no remorse...:o

Brena
May 5th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

I think this ditty sums it all up perfectly and succinctly.

HHhZF66C1Dc

fouc
May 5th, 2011, 07:48 PM
They way Americans (+ some notables) reacted to this news is scandalous and sad. Just like if they took this great ironic fb group: https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-prince-gets-married-the-bad-guy-is-dead-Its-a-real-Disney-weekend/121226937957472 seriously. :o

Bayo
May 5th, 2011, 08:01 PM
Well this thread did a great job of bringing out the loonies.

azdaja
May 5th, 2011, 08:06 PM
Well this thread did a great job of bringing out the loonies.
i agree, though i am not sure we mean the same people.

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 08:24 AM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

you definitely have a point.

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 08:34 AM
The US under Clinton even supported Bin Laden in Bosnia. Bin Laden's warriors came to Bosnia to fight on the Muslims' side against the Serbs. Bin Laden was later awarded a honorary Bosnian citizenship by the Bosnian embassy in Vienna, while one of the terrorists involved in 9/11 previously fought in Bosnia. But the US loved both him and his guys back then. Now they killed him but support the fundamentalists in Lybia by killing Gaddafi's children, grandchildren and random Lybian citizens.
Clinton, Bush, Obama... they don't have foreign policies - the US has A foreign policy executed by whoever. :shrug: And they fight or support the Islamic fundamentalism depending on whether it suits the US interests.

It's a sidenote but I think Serbians were the total aggressor in Bosnia, it was a veritable genocide there. Some journalists even quoted Munich(1938) on UN's agreement with Serbia. The West totally failed there..

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 09:05 AM
Really? his importance was questionable? I am so fucking sick of people always saying that it's better to leave then alone because otherwise someone will take their place, foments hatred blah blah blah.
They can hate as much as they want, but the reality is that very few people has Bin Laden's skills.
It wasn't just about saying, let's have a little war, you need leadership, organizational skills, the ability to get to people's heart (it's called charisma), he was an asshole, but a charismatic asshole, he was a lunatic, but a smart lunatic. Nobody can fill his shoes, yes, it doesn't mean that terrorism or even Al Qaeda are done, but it's a big blow.
At the end of the day, they are all the same, those leaders are not afraid to send others to die for them, because they think they are ok, they are safe, that is not true anymore. During the cold war, there was a tacit understanding that the high-ranked leaders were not targets, nobody would targer the CIA's director or his equivalent in the KGB. That changed, and you know who changed it? the Israeslis.
Hamas was reckless attacking Israel, suicide bombers striking on buses, night clubs, anywhere, the Israeslis retaliated only to be followed but yet another attack. Then they got it, if you want to kill the snake, cut off the head. They went after the leaders and started killing them one by one by missile strikes. That caused two problems to them, one, leaders were increasingly more difficult to replace, and they started to get scared.
The turning point is when they killed Hamas' spiritual leader, his successor vowed revenge, said that they would retaliate (like they weren't not killing already), only to be killed himself a few days later. The message was clear, if you were a leader and there was a terrorist attack, you could expect that sooner or later a missile would hit you. The attacks stopped, completely, only the usual ineffective barrage or rockets, designed more to show they are doing something, and Hamas is not even doing that anymore, a lot of rethoric, no action because they know they are killed.
Now, back to Al qaeda, supposing there is a capable leader that can take over without an internal fight, if Bin Laden can be killed so can anybody else. How much does the CIA know? how much they can trust the Pakistanis? that's in the back of their mind, trust me. They are not done, but this is the beginning of the end for them.
One final note, I thought first that while Bin Laden is undoubtedly dead, he was killed long ago and now they mounted this to finally admit that, but what convinced me that wasn't the case is why would Obama do that now and not closer to the elections? No, I think they got the bastard, I am not sure if it's exactly as described but he is dead, and Al Qaeda is going to miss him.

that's an interesting information. Thx

Apoleb
May 6th, 2011, 10:21 AM
I don't think the US carried an "illegal" attack or whatever. Well, it might be illegal according to "international law", but were they really supposed to inform Pakistan so that Pakistan capture/kill him? Please. Sometimes laws should not be respected for very good reasons.

As for killing him or capturing, yes it would have been preferred if he was caught and then tried, but I won't be losing sleep over that. Anyone with a brain knows that he's guilty and what he stands for.

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 12:05 PM
Hilarious that Pakistan now has 'high security' around the house with gunmen posted on surrounding rooftops. Are they expecting someone to return?

azdaja
May 6th, 2011, 12:09 PM
i don't want to insult anyone, but i really hate it that people permanently make shallow comparisons of anything to hitler and nazi germany, which in modern secular vocabulary are equivalents of satan and hell. the only thing that people seem to have in mind when making such comparisons is morality, but morality is irrelevant since collective insanity can take hold of any society and any country. meanwhile some very important details are being neglected - namely that hitler was the leader of the probably most powerful military of the world at that point in time, that he had huge industrial ressources at disposal and that accordingly he had the ability to drag the entire planet into one of the biggest tragedies in human history. oh and part of his propaganda was that he was defending "the west" from the soviet communist threat, something that people preferred to forget during the cold war. you can't compare people like bin laden or dictators from small and rather weak countries to hitler in a meaningful way. there are other villains from history who come much closer to what they really represent. far more important is how the most powerful countries in the world behave. and i have the impression that we are making huge strides in the wrong direction and we can't blame just george bush for that anymore.

SloKid
May 6th, 2011, 12:19 PM
i don't want to insult anyone, but i really hate it that people permanently make shallow comparisons of anything to hitler and nazi germany, which in modern secular vocabulary are equivalents of satan and hell.
It is inevitable though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

HippityHop
May 6th, 2011, 01:05 PM
I'm just saying they could have captured him and took him to trial. They didn't choose to use that route. I'm not gung-ho on the death penalty or just killing people. Regardless of what he was responsible for. I'm not much a fan of murder in any way or circumstance.

Sorry, but Bin Laden has always been destined for a bullet or bullets. Apparently his left eye had one with it's name on it.

HippityHop
May 6th, 2011, 01:07 PM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

Hey, if you can pull it off, have at it. And if you don't want to be hunted down, don't be a part of flying planes into our buildings.

fifiricci
May 6th, 2011, 01:33 PM
Hey, if you can pull it off, have at it. And if you don't want to be hunted down, don't be a part of flying planes into our buildings.
This post both demonstrates and misses my point and you have chosen to ignore a plethora of inconvenient truths. Never mind - I didn't expect (m) any Americans to get it or understand the bigger picture.

Apoleb
May 6th, 2011, 01:42 PM
This post both demonstrates and misses my point and you have chosen to ignore a plethora of inconvenient truths. Never mind - I didn't expect (m) any Americans to get it or understand the bigger picture.

What is the bigger picture? That it's "dangerous" to target - not a crazy man accused of a personal crime - but a man responsible for an incredibly dangerous and deadly ideology and who planed the killing of people at random? He was also responsible, directly or indirectly, for the death of thousands and thousands of people.

Again, what is your alternative? According to "international law", the US should have informed Pakistan to conduct the operation. Now do you think, in your right mind, this would have been the right thing to do? Or should we all just leave him in peace in his villa?

Brena
May 6th, 2011, 01:52 PM
It's a sidenote but I think Serbians were the total aggressor in Bosnia, it was a veritable genocide there. Some journalists even quoted Munich(1938) on UN's agreement with Serbia. The West totally failed there..

There is a difference between the factual truth and the officially accepted version. Or is there....

EDIT: Just a random article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=750 or teh entire site: http://www.srebrenica-report.com/
Many more could be found on the Internet by various non-Serbian authors. This one doesn't include the information on what the Bosniam Muslim army did to Serbian civilinas in the villages around Srebrenica before the ''massacre'' occurred.
Not that it matters anyway, since the spin-dpoctros have done their jobs well and people will always remember Serbs as ''aggressors'' and ''muderers'' od innocent civilians.
But that's a bit off-topic.

Ashi
May 6th, 2011, 01:55 PM
Hilarious that Pakistan now has 'high security' around the house with gunmen posted on surrounding rooftops. Are they expecting someone to return?
I guess they want to prevent it becoming a shrine to the late OBL and a tourist attraction.

Also, you would expect it to be cordoned off and security placed around it, for obvious reasons. People were killed in there. Most wanted people/persons.

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 02:51 PM
There is a difference between the factual truth and the officially accepted version. Or is there....

EDIT: Just a random article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=750 or teh entire site: http://www.srebrenica-report.com/
Many more could be found on the Internet by various non-Serbian authors. This one doesn't include the information on what the Bosniam Muslim army did to Serbian civilinas in the villages around Srebrenica before the ''massacre'' occurred.
Not that it matters anyway, since the spin-dpoctros have done their jobs well and people will always remember Serbs as ''aggressors'' and ''muderers'' od innocent civilians.
But that's a bit off-topic.

I'm not saying Bosnia was totally innocent, they weren't. They were radicalized IN RESPONSE to Serbia's terror and genocide policy. I see that the site you linked is talking about the incident in 1995.

Serbia killed Bosnia Muslims (defenseless ones, by snipers too) like 250,000, between 1992 and 1994..
Mitterand feared about the Muslim Europe, when in fact his doing NOTHING about the Muslim Genocide made that scenario come true :tape:

my source is

Slaughterhouse: Bosnia and the Failure of the West - Paperback (Mar. 8, 1996) by David Rieff

In The Zone
May 6th, 2011, 03:01 PM
I guess they want to prevent it becoming a shrine to the late OBL and a tourist attraction.

Also, you would expect it to be cordoned off and security placed around it, for obvious reasons. People were killed in there. Most wanted people/persons.

Exactly. It is now an attraction. The house should just be destroyed.

Ashi
May 6th, 2011, 03:14 PM
Exactly. It is now an attraction. The house should just be destroyed.

The place would still exist. You can't wipe it off the map. Anyway, it would be Pakistan's prerogative.

*JR*
May 6th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Exactly. It is now an attraction. The house should just be destroyed.

I guess (as unlike the uniqueness of Auschwitz etc. with the gas chambers, its "just a house" where a guy was shot dead). Somewhere in the region the whole historical context needs 2B addressed, but more likely in an urban museum setting. Of course that could become a terrorist target, but they can't be allowed to "veto history".

Ashi
May 6th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial.
In Utopia, maybe.

Brena
May 6th, 2011, 03:42 PM
I'm not saying Bosnia was totally innocent, they weren't. They were radicalized IN RESPONSE to Serbia's terror and genocide policy. I see that the site you linked is talking about the incident in 1995.

Serbia killed Bosnia Muslims (defenseless ones, by snipers too) like 250,000, between 1992 and 1994..
Mitterand feared about the Muslim Europe, when in fact his doing NOTHING about the Muslim Genocide made that scenario come true :tape:

my source is

Slaughterhouse: Bosnia and the Failure of the West - Paperback (Mar. 8, 1996) by David Rieff

But what was exactly Serbia's terror and genocide policy? Why do you think it was the Serbs who started first?
And how does Mr Rieff support his claims? With what facts?
Don't wanna go into an off-topic discussion since I don't believe it could change anyone's perception about us now, but having witnessed so many lies turned into truth by spin-doctors and constsnt repeating of their version of different events, I'd suggest eveyrone to be really cautious with trusting mainstream media and researching everything well and with an open mind before forming a judgment. :shrug:

Darop.
May 6th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Quite. In its cowboy like zeal for revenge, the USA appears to have overlooked the fact that by this act it has set a new precedent in international law, giving us all carte blanche to enter sovereign states without permission to kill "terrorists" without trial. Or does the USA believe that it is above the law?

No, breaking pre-existing international law (in this case, sovereignity laws), whether the "breaking" (derogation) be legal or not, does not create a legal precedent nor create a basis for international custom.... So yes, basically USA does believe it is above the law :p

All the other times the US went against international laws of this sort, they often proceeded to moral and monetary reparations and recognition of the breach. This time the Supreme Court and Attorney General aren't even admitting that a breach occured. :weirdo:
Pakistan will now no doubt be very pissed, rightfully so.

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 05:14 PM
But what was exactly Serbia's terror and genocide policy? Why do you think it was the Serbs who started first?
And how does Mr Rieff support his claims? With what facts?
Don't wanna go into an off-topic discussion since I don't believe it could change anyone's perception about us now, but having witnessed so many lies turned into truth by spin-doctors and constsnt repeating of their version of different events, I'd suggest eveyrone to be really cautious with trusting mainstream media and researching everything well and with an open mind before forming a judgment. :shrug:

How do they spin 250,000 dead into lies

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 05:16 PM
No, breaking pre-existing international law (in this case, sovereignity laws), whether the "breaking" (derogation) be legal or not, does not create a legal precedent nor create a basis for international custom.... So yes, basically USA does believe it is above the law :p

All the other times the US went against international laws of this sort, they often proceeded to moral and monetary reparations and recognition of the breach. This time the Supreme Court and Attorney General aren't even admitting that a breach occured. :weirdo:
Pakistan will now no doubt be very pissed, rightfully so.

I'd be pissed too if the world's most wanted terrorist was happily hiding in my backyard. No wonder they have 'high security' at the house now.

azdaja
May 6th, 2011, 05:17 PM
I'm not saying Bosnia was totally innocent, they weren't. They were radicalized IN RESPONSE to Serbia's terror and genocide policy. I see that the site you linked is talking about the incident in 1995.

Serbia killed Bosnia Muslims (defenseless ones, by snipers too) like 250,000, between 1992 and 1994..
Mitterand feared about the Muslim Europe, when in fact his doing NOTHING about the Muslim Genocide made that scenario come true :tape:

my source is

Slaughterhouse: Bosnia and the Failure of the West - Paperback (Mar. 8, 1996) by David Rieff
this is totally off-topic here, but i'd like to point out that you need an update. the number of bosnian muslim civilians killed in that war is something like 30,000 according to the official figures (research and documentation center in sarajevo). around 100,000 people were killed on all 3 sides, roughly half of them soldiers. the figures used in the 1990's were inflated (mostly estimates based on lists of the missing) because some people wanted to make a case for intervention stronger. in addition serbia was cleared of genocide charges by the international court of justice. your book is too old to contain the latest developments and history research.

How do they spin 250,000 dead into lies
i have just explained how.

Ashi
May 6th, 2011, 05:23 PM
I'd be pissed too if the world's most wanted terrorist was happily hiding in my backyard. No wonder they have 'high security' at the house now.
And being caught with their pants down. :o

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 05:39 PM
this is totally off-topic here, but i'd like to point out that you need an update. the number of bosnian muslim civilians killed in that war is something like 30,000 according to the official figures (research and documentation center in sarajevo). around 100,000 people were killed on all 3 sides, roughly half of them soldiers. the figures used in the 1990's were inflated (mostly estimates based on lists of the missing) because some people wanted to make a case for intervention stronger. in addition serbia was cleared of genocide charges by the international court of justice. your book is too old to contain the latest developments and history research.


i have just explained how.

ok so this is an argument over numbers and definitions like how dare you use the word genocide when you need x number of dead to be technically a genocide

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 05:58 PM
it's controversial I guess

BOSNIA GENOCIDE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide)

Maybe we need a new thread about this.

Rieff was interviewing a Serbian sniper; the sniper said that he was 'defending' his country when he was killing innocent Muslims :o

The Western response was SO like Munchen (appeasement policy) + Spanish War during the 30s, which totally failed as well.

azdaja
May 6th, 2011, 06:06 PM
ok so this is an argument over numbers and definitions like how dare you use the word genocide when you need x number of dead to be technically a genocide
not at all. a genocide means that there is an attempt to exterminate a group of people based on their descent, meaning nation, race, ethnicty, religion. numbers don't matter much. in the case against serbia the international court of justice found no proof that serbs tried to exterminate muslims as a group which is entirely consistent with the latest narratives that serbs and croats wanted to divide bosnia among themselves and give muslims a small statelet sandwiched between serbia and croatia and push all muslims there (through ethnic cleansing). not a nice plan either, but it's different from what happened to the jews in the ww2 who i'm sure would have happily picked this fate over what happened to them. the term genocide is used for the srebrenica massacre, though.

i just wanted to point out that some of the things mentioned in your and the other post were factually incorrect, that's all. and since it's totally off-topic i don't think we should pursue this discussion here.

azdaja
May 6th, 2011, 06:09 PM
it's controversial I guess

BOSNIA GENOCIDE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide)

Maybe we need a new thread about this.

Rieff was interviewing a Serbian sniper; the sniper said that he was 'defending' his country when he was killing innocent Muslims :o

The Western response was SO like Munchen (appeasement policy) + Spanish War during the 30s, which totally failed as well.
the appeasment argument is a major joke for a number of reasons, but i'll stop now since this doesn't belong in this thread.

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 06:13 PM
the appeasment argument is a major joke for a number of reasons, but i'll stop now since this doesn't belong in this thread.

Munchen was cited by journalists AND the UN commander at that time.

but I'll make a separate thread.

'What happened in Bosnia?' should be fair enough.

*JR*
May 6th, 2011, 06:17 PM
it's controversial I guess

BOSNIA GENOCIDE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide)

Maybe we need a new thread about this.

Probably, because the story of the former Yugoslavia was far more complicated than most ppl in the West thought. Sure Slobo did some bad things (and quasi-independent allies of his like Arkan worse ones) but the fact remains that even after seeing that the Croatian secession led to a war, George HW Bush forced the creation of a new state called Bosnia-Hercegovina that had never existed, had a large Serbian minority, and no real means to defend its newfound sovereignty. (He's ovarated as a foreign policy genius IMO, mainly because he wisely didn't try to conquer Iraq after Desert Storm).

fantic
May 6th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Probably, because the story of the former Yugoslavia was far more complicated than most ppl in the West thought. Sure Slobo did some bad things (and quasi-independent allies of his like Arkan worse ones) but the fact remains that even after seeing that the Croatian secession led to a war, George HW Bush forced the creation of a new state called Bosnia-Hercegovina that had never existed, had a large Serbian minority, and no real means to defend its newfound sovereignty. (He's ovarated as a foreign policy genius IMO, mainly because he wisely didn't try to conquer Iraq after Desert Storm).

made a thread, interested to hear all the discussions

LINK (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=434108)

King Halep
May 6th, 2011, 06:58 PM
oh well thats fine then. no genocide

azdaja
May 6th, 2011, 07:14 PM
oh well thats fine then. no genocide
if you want to troll around do it in the newly created thread, i'm done with this discussion here.

HippityHop
May 7th, 2011, 02:45 AM
Exactly. It is now an attraction. The house should just be destroyed.

Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.

fantic
May 7th, 2011, 02:55 AM
Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.

I was also wondering about this :tape:

King Halep
May 7th, 2011, 03:43 AM
Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.

i was thinking the same. its big but the construction quality looks like crap but i dont want to say anything because that might be what mansions look like there. the property is obviously enormous because a Chinook landed there

Expat
May 7th, 2011, 05:50 AM
Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.

In countries like Pakistan and india with high population density land is expensive while labor is cheap. It wouldn't surprise me if it cost that much. My parent's home in Delhi where they went back to live after retirement is worth many million dollars and its much smaller than this though its much less hideous looking.

Ashi
May 7th, 2011, 07:09 AM
Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.

Well, just so you know, just because its not much to look that doesn't mean it isn't worth a lot, especially in a town/city where the military have their training bases and other vacation homes. ;)

How do you think a place will look after a raid and a major operation being carried out on that property? :lol:

Islamabad is nearby, hence the price of that home/hideout. Not at all surprising.:shrug:

Maybe you should check out the real estate prices/indexes in various cities across the Indian subcontinent. And compare them to various cities in the US. You'd be very surprised.

Ashi
May 7th, 2011, 07:16 AM
In countries like Pakistan and india with high population density land is expensive while labor is cheap. It wouldn't surprise me if it cost that much. My parent's home in Delhi where they went back to live after retirement is worth many million dollars and its much smaller than this though its much less hideous looking.
+ 1.

Mumbai is even worse. You'd practically have to be a multi-millionaire several times over, to have a home/ land of that size here or even on its outskirts.

Darop.
May 7th, 2011, 09:32 AM
The US gives Pakistan $1.8 billion a year in aid. If Pakistan doesn't want this aid, then they should fight the US in international court. As a US taxpayer, I am tired of my tax dollars being wasted on ungrateful countries.

Actually no, for fear of corruption US sent 180 million over in aid, and then refused to build all the schools it had promised.

And this whole matter is irrelevant, aid has nothing to do with admitting illegal acts and compensating. It's as if your boss runs you over and says "I did nothing wrong and I'm not paying you for damages, I give you enough money already". :rolleyes:

And the whole "as a US taxpayer bla bla bla" thing is so ridiculous. Look at where your money is really going, 180 million in 1 year to Pakistan is zero in comparison.

Mistress of Evil
May 7th, 2011, 09:39 AM
This thread could seriously give you a good laugh. :awww: But a good crying session as well :sad: it is really sad to see how we human beings have not evolved just one bit :shrug: such primitive way of thinking, we still have :(

Pureracket
May 7th, 2011, 10:42 AM
Speaking of that house, how in the hell was that thing worth a million dollars? I doubt that even in Los Angeles that would go for a million dollars. And I hope that the disarray that is shown in the photographs is not an indication of how they were living. If so, it was a pig sty.In fairness, I don't think the maid's been there since the Navy SEALS showed up.

Darop.
May 8th, 2011, 04:53 PM
The US gives $1.8 billion a year, not $180 million.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/268602-identifying-investment-implications-of-bin-laden-s-death

Osama bin Laden was living not just within the borders of Pakistan, but within a mile of arguably the heart of the country's military establishment. Conspiracy theories abound, but it seems clear that Pakistan knew a lot more than it was letting on to its U.S. and NATO 'allies' operating in the region.

From 2002 to 2010, the U.S. gave $20 billion in aid to Pakistan. Over $3 billion has been requested for 2011.

At a time when Congress is sharpening its fiscal pencil, it's no surprise to see that Senators are pushing to cut Pakistan's aid. Expect calls for U.S. forces to pull-out of Afghanistan to only grow louder, which in turn will have a destabilizing effect on Pakistan and the wider region.

In 2010, only 179.5 million were given in aid. And there's a 7.5 billion 5-year deal, so "20 billion" figure is bogus. Remember that much of the funds US sent over were humanitarian aids for flooding, which is a different thing.

Instead of looking for stray articles, here's the straight government source: government accountability office.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11310r.pdf

But I once again repeat, aid agreements/treaties have absolutely nothing to do with compensation for illegal acts, I confirm the "boss running you over" analogy.

Mixal
May 9th, 2011, 11:57 AM
Firstly, because I think that everyone, no matter how much of a brutal killer, has the right to a fair trial and has the right to try to defend themselves in a fair and equal court. Also, I think every person, no matter how horrible, has the right to a dignified death

This.

HippityHop
May 9th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Well, just so you know, just because its not much to look that doesn't mean it isn't worth a lot, especially in a town/city where the military have their training bases and other vacation homes. ;)

How do you think a place will look after a raid and a major operation being carried out on that property? :lol:

Islamabad is nearby, hence the price of that home/hideout. Not at all surprising.:shrug:

Maybe you should check out the real estate prices/indexes in various cities across the Indian subcontinent. And compare them to various cities in the US. You'd be very surprised.

Perhaps this is the answer. I guess that there are places where you pay out the ass and get crap (no pun intended). As for the raid, the recently released video of OBL sitting watching himself on television still seems to show it to be less than stellar.

Wigglytuff
May 9th, 2011, 01:50 PM
The US gives Pakistan $1.8 billion a year in aid. If Pakistan doesn't want this aid, then they should fight the US in international court. As a US taxpayer, I am tired of my tax dollars being wasted on ungrateful countries.

but oil companies get many times that, and you were just in the other thread defending oil companies getting that money?

Wigglytuff
May 9th, 2011, 02:19 PM
1=Firstly, because I think that everyone, no matter how much of a brutal killer, has the right to a fair trial and has the right to try to defend themselves in a fair and equal court. Also, I think every person, no matter how horrible, has the right to a dignified death (he surely would have received the death sentence). If these two things come to lack, especially when we are talking about a death caused by a State (which the US military/SEALS or whatever represents), it's just mere and petty vengeance. I don't really buy the whole "firefight" crap, Osama was wanted dead.
This being said, people across the world and without distinction of sex, race and religion surely have the right to celebrate the capture of Osama Bin Laden.

2-As for the second part of your post, I don't really get what you're saying.... Are you legitimizing US foreign policy in the middle east? :shrug: If that's the case, I'll just pass on.

3=The reason why I think all these shenanigans (sp?) are ridiculous is because I seriously doubt that post-9/11 Osama really had a huge and central role in Al Qaeda, so having all these people dancing around, chanting "USA! USA!" and thinking that the days of their "living in terror" are over for good seems quite stupid to me :scratch: I really don't see how I'm lacking empathy. And not only do I believe that he didn't have a central role in Al Qaeda, I don't even think Al Qaeda is the biggest threat to US security (or at least, not a proportionate threat considering how much time/money/media craze has been invested in it).

1- again what utter nonsense. petty venegence? i think statements like that show how much you are jugdeing others, as i stated in the prior post without any real understanding of what is going.

firstly OBL was the biggest personal funder of terrorism world wide. so he was not sitting in some back seat role. secondly, even if you didnt know that widely knownly and paramount fact, since his death it has been very clear that he was not just some figure head. he was planning other attacks and was very much in charge of al queda. as such, when you capture a leader like that you want him alive. again it shows a lack of understand for you to say off hand that it was just vengeance and his death was somehow without merit or reason when its clear as day we dont know all the facts and CANT know all the facts.
I am not saying to just trust everything the USA gov. does, far from it. i am saying to think logically and understand the facts before you go say things like this whole operation was petty vengeance and no effort was made to get him alive. you dont know that. period.

2- i never said this, or anything like this particularly when with some notible expections i could not disagree more with USA policy in the middle east. again you are making assumptions and jumping to conclusion based on those assumptions.

3- have i membtioned that you are making assumptions and then jumping to conclusions based on those faulty assumptions because this last part of your post takes the cake. so much so that i have to take it in sections:

The reason why I think all these shenanigans (sp?) are ridiculous is because I seriously doubt that post-9/11 Osama really had a huge and central role in Al Qaeda,

jumping to conclusions without any of the facts again. the fact is he DID have a huge central role as its largest finacial backer even if he was not involved in any plans for the future. but as it turns out he WAS making plans for future attacks.


so having all these people dancing around, chanting "USA! USA!" and
most of the people that were out celebrating where college kids. this matters for two reasons:
1- they were as young as 6 when 9/11 happened and dont a world without this man being a real life wicked witch of the west
2- in college in america many kids not all but certainly a good number are ALWAYS looking for an excuse to party and make a lot of noise and mess.

thinking that the days of their "living in terror" are over for good seems quite stupid to me :scratch:
you decide what is in their heads and then call them stupid for thinking it? come on! thats just wrong on so many levels!


I really don't see how I'm lacking empathy.
you DONT see how making up thoughts that other people you dont know anything about "have" and then calling them stupid for having said thoughts shows a lack of empathy for their feelings? in that case i direct you to look up the word empathy. :sad:

sorry for all the typos contained herein, i have two hungry cats that demand to be fed before i continue here.

King Halep
May 9th, 2011, 06:46 PM
Oil companies employs millions of Americans. It stimulates the American economy. Aid to Pakistan does not help American economy.

i bet a nuclear war would not help American economy

Wigglytuff
May 9th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Oil companies employs millions of Americans. It stimulates the American economy. Aid to Pakistan does not help American economy.

and they would do so without a dime from the government. :wavey:

Darop.
May 9th, 2011, 08:05 PM
1- again what utter nonsense. petty venegence? i think statements like that show how much you are jugdeing others, as i stated in the prior post without any real understanding of what is going.

firstly OBL was the biggest personal funder of terrorism world wide. so he was not sitting in some back seat role. secondly, even if you didnt know that widely knownly and paramount fact, since his death it has been very clear that he was not just some figure head. he was planning other attacks and was very much in charge of al queda. as such, when you capture a leader like that you want him alive. again it shows a lack of understand for you to say off hand that it was just vengeance and his death was somehow without merit or reason when its clear as day we dont know all the facts and CANT know all the facts.
I am not saying to just trust everything the USA gov. does, far from it. i am saying to think logically and understand the facts before you go say things like this whole operation was petty vengeance and no effort was made to get him alive. you dont know that. period.

I didn't say killing him was just mere vengeance, I said the way he was killed was just mere vengeance. When a State kills a person, it has to go beyond sentiment and passion, in my opinion.

2- i never said this, or anything like this particularly when with some notible expections i could not disagree more with USA policy in the middle east. again you are making assumptions and jumping to conclusion based on those assumptions. I didn't make assumptions, that's why I said "I don't really understand what you're saying here".


jumping to conclusions without any of the facts again. the fact is he DID have a huge central role as its largest finacial backer even if he was not involved in any plans for the future. but as it turns out he WAS making plans for future attacks. This is a political and not factual assumption. You apparently have your sources, I have others. Leading my sources is Fisk who I've learned to trust alot over the years, mostly because pretty much everything he says then reveals itself true and he was one of the few people to ever interview Bin Laden.


most of the people that were out celebrating where college kids. this matters for two reasons:
1- they were as young as 6 when 9/11 happened and dont a world without this man being a real life wicked witch of the west
2- in college in america many kids not all but certainly a good number are ALWAYS looking for an excuse to party and make a lot of noise and mess.

you decide what is in their heads and then call them stupid for thinking it? come on! thats just wrong on so many levels!


you DONT see how making up thoughts that other people you dont know anything about "have" and then calling them stupid for having said thoughts shows a lack of empathy for their feelings? in that case i direct you to look up the word empathy. :sad: I've been to the US before and after 9/11 many times, and have many friends who live there. That's not living in terror. I've been to some places in the world in which life seems terrifying, yet the locals don't even seem to notice it because they're so used it. That's what's living in terror.
And don't pull out all that "emotions and feelings are all relative" crap, there's a limit to everything. If americans thought they were "living in terror" post 9/11, they must have been pretty closed-minded and ignorant of everything else that was going on in the world. Seriously. I decided what's in their heads? WTF? I objectively observe most of their lives and confront it with those of people who really do live in terror. The only terror they had to deal with was the one created by their own government and subsequent mass hysteria. There's no doubt that many people's lives were devastated and that many others were destabilized, but "living in terror" is quite a stretch.

Wigglytuff
May 10th, 2011, 03:42 AM
I didn't say killing him was just mere vengeance, I said the way he was killed was just mere vengeance. When a State kills a person, it has to go beyond sentiment and passion, in my opinion.

I didn't make assumptions, that's why I said "I don't really understand what you're saying here".


This is a political and not factual assumption. You apparently have your sources, I have others. Leading my sources is Fisk who I've learned to trust alot over the years, mostly because pretty much everything he says then reveals itself true and he was one of the few people to ever interview Bin Laden.


I've been to the US before and after 9/11 many times, and have many friends who live there. That's not living in terror. I've been to some places in the world in which life seems terrifying, yet the locals don't even seem to notice it because they're so used it. That's what's living in terror.
And don't pull out all that "emotions and feelings are all relative" crap, there's a limit to everything. If americans thought they were "living in terror" post 9/11, they must have been pretty closed-minded and ignorant of everything else that was going on in the world. Seriously. I decided what's in their heads? WTF? I objectively observe most of their lives and confront it with those of people who really do live in terror. The only terror they had to deal with was the one created by their own government and subsequent mass hysteria. There's no doubt that many people's lives were devastated and that many others were destabilized, but "living in terror" is quite a stretch.

You are again deciding what's in their heads and attacking them for it. You keep saying these teenagers and young adults celebrating were doing so because you said they were living in terror. But I have read interview and see video of the people that were celebrating and not one used the phrase living in terror. You attached that phrase to them and their actions they did not.

And you did it to me, twice. When did I say all that "emotions and feelings are all relative"? You said that and then attacked me for it. Come on! Stop doing that. It's not constructive and doesn't help your point.

Lastly, you ignored the fact that Osama bin laden was the single largest financial backer of terrorism. If you want to believe that bin laden was not important, that's your right, but it does not change the FACTS. You can say he didn't matter till you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the facts.

Darop.
May 10th, 2011, 10:26 AM
You are again deciding what's in their heads and attacking them for it. You keep saying these teenagers and young adults celebrating were doing so because you said they were living in terror. But I have read interview and see video of the people that were celebrating and not one used the phrase living in terror. You attached that phrase to them and their actions they did not.

And you did it to me, twice. When did I say all that "emotions and feelings are all relative"? You said that and then attacked me for it. Come on! Stop doing that. It's not constructive and doesn't help your point.

Lastly, you ignored the fact that Osama bin laden was the single largest financial backer of terrorism. If you want to believe that bin laden was not important, that's your right, but it does not change the FACTS. You can say he didn't matter till you are blue in the face, but that doesn't change the facts.

I heard "living in terror", "end of terror", "no more terror" millions of times as a prefabricated rhetoric many times, and if they didn't think they were living in terror because of Osama there's no need to celebrate on the streets as if world peace had been declared. You didn't specifically say "emotions and feelings are relative", but you were implying that with the whole "you don't know what's going on in their heads", and I don't, but I can objectively distinguish who does and doesn't live in terror.

Attacking you? No. That's thre second time in 2 posts you get all up tight and defensive :lol: :weirdo:

Fingon
May 11th, 2011, 01:47 AM
Maybe, the idealists in this world think that bin laden should have haafair trial. I dont. I say well done.

Just kill the fucker and if someone else takes his place, kill him.

Yes I know. Some will say that is to sink to their level. I don't give a shit what they think. He killed thousands, a bullet in his head was too good for him.

Before somebody lectures me about human rights. I am right wing and I think the only way to stop terrorism is by killing the leaders. Putting them in jail is not enough. Nobody will try to release them if they are dead

I have not an onze of sympathy for bin laden or anybody close to him and I can only be happy the fucker is dead.

I actually now I like Obama a lot better. He did surprised me, especially when I learnt he gave the order that the navy seals return fire if attacked by Pakistani forces. It shows guts, and determination.

Leo St
May 29th, 2011, 08:26 PM
obama bin

mykarma
May 30th, 2011, 02:05 AM
obama bin
That's so wrong. :lol: