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debopero
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:44 PM
http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/wta.html

I just wanted to post this because I am glad that someone out there has defended the WTA. It's refreshing.

Juju Nostalgique
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:49 PM
Since when is Bodo a reliable source for anything? :ras:

debopero
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:54 PM
Well I think he makes valid points here (although some of his facts are wrong but actually, if he had corrected them he would have strengthended his argument :lol: ).

selestribe
Apr 30th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Bodo's worst post in a long time. Almost all the facts he posted are wrong and argueing with all those H2H doesn't make sense.
And why does he takes the 1995 top 10 and not 1991 or 1992 for instance? I can remember that Seles, Graf, ASV, Sabatini, Novotna, Fernandez, Capriati, Navratilova & a few more played very competitive matches at that time and showed much more consistency and professionalism than most of today's players.
The only thing I can agree with is you can't compare tennis eras, ok, but IMHO women's tennis was much more exciting in the beginning of the 90s than now and all the number 1 between 1990 and 2000 were undisputed.

stangtennis
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:08 PM
https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@harrie91 (http://twitter.com/harrie91) I covered Arantxa and her generation and NO WAY were there 8-10 great players with fierce rivalries.
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63317992754253824)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
And what Arantxa doesnt realize of that Wozniacki models her forehand after hers:)
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63318162183172096)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@Clare09 (http://twitter.com/Clare09) @FootFault_ (http://twitter.com/FootFault_) @never2far2 (http://twitter.com/never2far2) When Steffi/Monica were dominating in heyday, tourneys could be real boring. Blowouts every round
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63319565668597760)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@TomPerrotta (http://twitter.com/TomPerrotta) Incredible thing is some recently retired players who were considered boring will say current generation lacks personalities
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63320349156188161)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@harrie91 (http://twitter.com/harrie91) Steffi owned ASV, Conchita, Gaby & MJ for most part. Her rivalry with Monica was great though, and with Lindsay
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63320822315622400)

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1325454332/pova_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/#!/FootFault_)@FootFault_ (https://twitter.com/#!/FootFault_) Tumaini@TennisReporters (http://twitter.com/TennisReporters) Of course. But anything beats having the best 3 players injured/barely playing and most other best players losing in 1Rs.
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/FootFault_/status/63320769287041024)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@FootFault_ (http://twitter.com/FootFault_) Agree but recall what happened after Seles stabbed: Steffi pretty much dominated 4 years unless she was hurt
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63321701022318592)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/316956021/trixie_is_not_just_a_cat_normal.jpg @trixiemck (https://twitter.com/#!/trixiemck) Monica Colangelo
@TennisReporters (http://twitter.com/TennisReporters) Arantxa is totally right. You won't find a Navratilova, Graf, Sabatini or Sánchez Vicario these days.
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/trixiemck/status/63320979438436352)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@trixiemck (http://twitter.com/trixiemck) I liked Gaby but take a hard look at her resume & get back to me -- not a legit Hall of Famer. Sveta better player
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63322439702167552)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
Hate to be vanilla about this but what's true is every generation has strengths & weaknesses. And ASV was worse interview than Caro at 20
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63326421266870272)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/316956021/trixie_is_not_just_a_cat_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/#!/trixiemck) @trixiemck (https://twitter.com/#!/trixiemck) Monica Colangelo
@TennisReporters (http://twitter.com/TennisReporters) Sabatini's record 632-189; Sveta's 430-187 in as many years (11) and not the same quality players
27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/trixiemck/status/63328164654481408)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@trixiemck (http://twitter.com/trixiemck) Cant believe I'm saying this but Sveta despite her own chokes more clutch than Gaby Still cant believe Sabatini's gag to MJ at RG
28 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63626862236139520)

https://si1.twimg.com/profile_images/1181280224/yo_mirar_g2_normal.JPG (https://twitter.com/#!/SebastianCala) @SebastianCala (https://twitter.com/#!/SebastianCala) tenisenvivo.com.ar
@TennisReporters (http://twitter.com/TennisReporters) @fogmount (http://twitter.com/fogmount) Really?! i MUCH prefer 80/90´s, Graf, Evert, Navratilova, Seles, Sabatini, Arantxa.. all tgethr in the same room
28 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/SebastianCala/status/63628219731017728)

https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@SebastianCala (http://twitter.com/SebastianCala) 4 sure a great group but Chrissie was done by 89 so hard to throw in there as past her prime the last few years
28 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63632762204209153)

cellophane
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:11 PM
Bodo is a loser, but Sanchez Vicario is wrong about tennis being better in the 90s. It only had competitive rivalries in the late 90s early '00s. As far as everybody being a power player these days... hmmm. I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?

stangtennis
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:19 PM
I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?
Aga Radwanska.

poulao
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:45 PM
I have absolutely nothing against ASW, I liked her alot back then. :) But that article is just spot on :lol:

starin
Apr 30th, 2011, 05:02 PM
Bodo is a loser, but Sanchez Vicario is wrong about tennis being better in the 90s. It only had competitive rivalries in the late 90s early '00s. As far as everybody being a power player these days... hmmm. I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?

pretty much this.

Raiden
Apr 30th, 2011, 05:25 PM
Bodo is a loser, but Sanchez Vicario is wrong about tennis being better in the 90s. It only had competitive rivalries in the late 90s early '00s. As far as everybody being a power player these days... hmmm. I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?Ballbasher is a vulgar term but yes some of those players certainly Serena and Kim are "power players".

Yes, I know that Mary Pierce invented big babe tennis but that doesn't mean others didn't play with power just cuz they didn't play exactly like the French diva did.

Lunaticalm
Apr 30th, 2011, 05:32 PM
Finally someone put her in her place. Well done Bodo, although you can be so misogynistic sometimes.

Viktymise
Apr 30th, 2011, 05:35 PM
Bodo is a loser, but Sanchez Vicario is wrong about tennis being better in the 90s. It only had competitive rivalries in the late 90s early '00s. As far as everybody being a power player these days... hmmm. I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?

Serena?

Randy H
Apr 30th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Bodo is the first person to criticize anyone and everyone, I guess he doesn't like anyone else making the commentary but him.

Cronin is one of the poorest excuses for a tennis "journalist" I've read through the years. I don't take much stock in what any of them write.

AndreAfriend
Apr 30th, 2011, 06:54 PM
Bodo's worst post in a long time. Almost all the facts he posted are wrong and argueing with all those H2H doesn't make sense.
And why does he takes the 1995 top 10 and not 1991 or 1992 for instance? I can remember that Seles, Graf, ASV, Sabatini, Novotna, Fernandez, Capriati, Navratilova & a few more played very competitive matches at that time and showed much more consistency and professionalism than most of today's players.
You mentioned Seles at first,because she is your choice and you are a fan. No problems at all.
Graf,Seles,Novotna,Arantxa,Capriati,Navratilova,Sa batini,Fernandez + Martinez,Pierce,Lindsay(since 96),Hingis(since 97),Venus(since 97).

Yes ,the group has tough rivalry and present tennis(i respect Henin,Kim like that players) is a joke and fashion show when compare with them.

and Graf,Seles,Sabatini matches are still high rated on TVs and they have greater fan following than present.

The only thing I can agree with is you can't compare tennis eras, ok, but IMHO women's tennis was much more exciting in the beginning of the 90s than now and all the number 1 between 1990 and 2000 were undisputed.

i like your attitude and you are so true.
:kiss::angel:

cellophane
May 1st, 2011, 03:52 PM
Ballbasher is a vulgar term but yes some of those players certainly Serena and Kim are "power players"..

Yes, they are, ASV makes it sound like to be at the top all you need to do is be a one-dimensional ballbasher.

nat75
May 1st, 2011, 09:00 PM
Funny how he "fotgot" about 1990-1993 altogether. :rolleyes:

nat75
May 1st, 2011, 09:23 PM
Oh, I see. He's trying to trash ASV's achievements. But Bodo! The 90's aren't just 1994 and 1995! :rolleyes:

nat75
May 1st, 2011, 09:32 PM
Bodo is a loser, but Sanchez Vicario is wrong about tennis being better in the 90s. It only had competitive rivalries in the late 90s early '00s. As far as everybody being a power player these days... hmmm. I didn't know Jankovic, Clijsters, Serena, Schiavone and Wozniacki were ballbashers?

1990-1993 was super exciting with two players fighting for the number 1 spot (also Sabatini having four chances to jump to the number one spot 1991 as well). Masters finals going up to five sets, full house finals and semis. When was the last time you have seen an Italian Open final with a full stadium??

Ryan
May 1st, 2011, 10:55 PM
ASV is a stupid cow, and Bodo was spot on. Read Ladies of the Court for christs sake. ASV was the definition of a moonballing pusher (as much as those terms suck), and picked up the table scraps that Graf and Gunther Parche let fall her way. She certainly expanded her own game as time went on though, so kudos to her.

The early 90's have been idealized way too much; by the old-timers who don't like tennis nowadays and fanboys who just like to complain in general. '98 through '03 was a clear peak for the WTA, no doubt about it. But I think ASV is delusional, trying to start that "peak period" back to 92, or even maybe 89! Cuz there were not 8-10 players vying for every tournament in the early 90s. Hell, if it wasn't Seles snatching up Slams it was Graf, and Sabatini/ASV took the leftovers and Mary Joe/Nav were consistent threats but not where it counted (obv for Nav, post 1990).

Sure Wozniacki may not be well known or respected by every casual tennis fan, but to throw darts at a player so similar to yourself is hilarious. Especially because Wozniacki is certainly more well known than ASV was outside of staunch tennis circles.

All in all, a bitter hasbeen throwing shade at the top players. I hope Serena, Kim Caroline or Venus throw it back at her. :shrug:

Randy H
May 2nd, 2011, 01:30 AM
ASV is a stupid cow, and Bodo was spot on. Read Ladies of the Court for christs sake. ASV was the definition of a moonballing pusher (as much as those terms suck), and picked up the table scraps that Graf and Gunther Parche let fall her way. She certainly expanded her own game as time went on though, so kudos to her.

The early 90's have been idealized way too much; by the old-timers who don't like tennis nowadays and fanboys who just like to complain in general. '98 through '03 was a clear peak for the WTA, no doubt about it. But I think ASV is delusional, trying to start that "peak period" back to 92, or even maybe 89! Cuz there were not 8-10 players vying for every tournament in the early 90s. Hell, if it wasn't Seles snatching up Slams it was Graf, and Sabatini/ASV took the leftovers and Mary Joe/Nav were consistent threats but not where it counted (obv for Nav, post 1990).

Sure Wozniacki may not be well known or respected by every casual tennis fan, but to throw darts at a player so similar to yourself is hilarious. Especially because Wozniacki is certainly more well known than ASV was outside of staunch tennis circles.

All in all, a bitter hasbeen throwing shade at the top players. I hope Serena, Kim Caroline or Venus throw it back at her. :shrug:

Usually I agree with most of your posts, but I do have some disagreements here...

Arantxa was most certainly not a moonballing pusher, in fact you can go as far back as some of her matches in 90/91 (still only 18/19 years old) and see the amount of variety in her game. People thought of her as a moonballer, because her ability to dig out so many near impossible shots from the baseline and reset the point meant throwing up defensive shots when necessary. She had more all-court ability in her baby finger by that age than Wozniacki has shown thus far.

Second, ASV never specified a "starting point" of the 90's which she believed were better, I think she was looking at the overall spectrum of the 90's. I think most would agree that the height seemed to occur around 1998, but I find it really funny that Bodo happens to choose 1995 as his example. His argument about the players below top 3 is also really stupid...Take away Steffi, Monica, and Arantxa from the list of slam winners, and you have 5 slams between the rest. Look at the top 10 on this week's rankings, and if you take away the top 3 winners of slams in there (Serena, Kim, Maria), you have 1 slam (Schiavone). Not sure why Bodo even tried to bring that up as a discrediting point.

I don't think that anything Arantxa said was particularly untrue. Most people don't know who Wozniacki is, and they won't until she either starts winning slams, or gets Kournikova-like attention. As for the others, Arantxa didn't say anything bad about them, except to say that the power is much more a factor than variety...Which it is. As she said, the game has moved on in different ways, and I think much of that is due to the technology...The ability to hit with power from different points of the court is so much more than it was even 15 years ago.

I've said before, as far as personality and character are concerned, much of the fault is on the WTA. They do a poor job of promoting personalities IMO, and they need to stop treating the WTA and its players as though they are nothing more than an opening act for the ATP.

People (media and fans) are the ones who seem to constantly force the issue of comparing generations and different eras, and then when they don't like the answers of players who have actually lived through different generations, they get defensive :shrug:

MyskinaManiac
May 2nd, 2011, 02:41 AM
I have absolutely nothing against ASW, I liked her alot back then. :) But that article is just spot on :lol:

When will you find the 'v' on your keyboard?

MyskinaManiac
May 2nd, 2011, 02:49 AM
So much drama in the 90's. Mixed with quality and talented players who played less for money and more the prestige. You'll never see players like Graf, Seles, Hingis, ASV, Pierce, Novtna, Capriati and in the late 90's Serena and Davenport. The WTA is different now, it's a bunch of athletes who don't care for equal pay (because they seemingly have it or close to it), they care less for the promotion of the sport because the generation before them paved the way for them and they have little concern for the monetary side of things because seemingly you can still lose in the first round and have paid for your coach and flight to your next tournament (on top of ridiculous sponsorship deals). The dynamic of the game have changed, instead of giving the girls incentive for greatness, they have the greatness in the form of money and media hype (that is often misguided).

PhilePhile
May 2nd, 2011, 03:18 AM
http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/wta.html

I just wanted to post this because I am glad that someone out there has defended the WTA. It's refreshing.

He was writing for his own self-interest. He wrote "Sanchez-Vicario is the tournament director of the Barcelona event ..." and deliberately asked the wrong questions.

I am sure she was stressed because the event was not bringing in the numbers like many other WTA events.

perseus2006
May 2nd, 2011, 03:23 AM
In those old days there was Seles, Graf and Nav. That's it for tennis.

For looks, just to keep the younger generation somewhat interested, there was MJF and Sabatini.

Except for those mentioned, Women's Tennis in the old days was exceptionally slow and too often tedious, for the most part, until the arrival of Lindsey, Jenn, Elena, the WS, the Belgians, Pova ...

Today's women's tennis is the best it's ever been, more entertaining, more exciting, more athletic, more diverse.

Morrissey
May 2nd, 2011, 03:25 AM
I disagree strongly with Peter Bodo for a number of reasons. Arantxa had something that Sabatini and Novotna lacked and that is the fighting spirit. One of the things I loved about Arantxa is she never EVER gave up in a tennis match. A player had to beat Arantxa in order to win she wasn't going to beat herself.
Yes, Arantxa had losing records against Graf and Seles BUT they she also was a tough opponent. Aranxta had a lot of variety she won multiple grand slam titles in women's doubles and in mixed doubles too. Arantxa had a lot of shots she could volley, hit drop shots, slice, lops ect. Aranxta was the ONLY woman during her era on the WTA tour to beat both Graf and Seles in grand slam finals! Also, Arantxa is not just some moon baller but a very mentally tough champion. In 1989 when Graf was a dominant number one Arantxa STOPPED Steffi from a second golden slam. The 1989 French Open victory at the tender age of seventeen was incredible by Arantxa. Arantxa was better than players like Sabatini, Novotna, Martinez, and Mary Joe Fernandez because she was tougher. Even though Arantxa was smaller than the other top women she was stronger in the mind and spirit.

spencercarlos
May 2nd, 2011, 03:37 AM
Usually I agree with most of your posts, but I do have some disagreements here...

Arantxa was most certainly not a moonballing pusher, in fact you can go as far back as some of her matches in 90/91 (still only 18/19 years old) and see the amount of variety in her game. People thought of her as a moonballer, because her ability to dig out so many near impossible shots from the baseline and reset the point meant throwing up defensive shots when necessary. She had more all-court ability in her baby finger by that age than Wozniacki has shown thus far.

Second, ASV never specified a "starting point" of the 90's which she believed were better, I think she was looking at the overall spectrum of the 90's. I think most would agree that the height seemed to occur around 1998, but I find it really funny that Bodo happens to choose 1995 as his example. His argument about the players below top 3 is also really stupid...Take away Steffi, Monica, and Arantxa from the list of slam winners, and you have 5 slams between the rest. Look at the top 10 on this week's rankings, and if you take away the top 3 winners of slams in there (Serena, Kim, Maria), you have 1 slam (Schiavone). Not sure why Bodo even tried to bring that up as a discrediting point.

I don't think that anything Arantxa said was particularly untrue. Most people don't know who Wozniacki is, and they won't until she either starts winning slams, or gets Kournikova-like attention. As for the others, Arantxa didn't say anything bad about them, except to say that the power is much more a factor than variety...Which it is. As she said, the game has moved on in different ways, and I think much of that is due to the technology...The ability to hit with power from different points of the court is so much more than it was even 15 years ago.

I've said before, as far as personality and character are concerned, much of the fault is on the WTA. They do a poor job of promoting personalities IMO, and they need to stop treating the WTA and its players as though they are nothing more than an opening act for the ATP.

People (media and fans) are the ones who seem to constantly force the issue of comparing generations and different eras, and then when they don't like the answers of players who have actually lived through different generations, they get defensive :shrug:
I will answer with videos, between these two suckers from this era, apparently there was only Seles, and Graf... (Not even Navratilova is mentioned despite she scored wins over everybody in the 90ties)

1992 Miami Sanchez Vicario Sabatini
ejC9cgTidnI

1991 Hilton Head Sanchez Vicario Sabatini
RshQmwjF4A4

Bonfire
May 2nd, 2011, 03:44 AM
Arantxa sucks!:no:

spencercarlos
May 2nd, 2011, 04:15 AM
Arantxa sucks!:no:
You got me thinking of Capriati.. damn she was so good..

1991
EkOQ6-l7KVA

1992 Australian Open QF Capriati Sabatini
WqIMvylHPyA

More circa the 90ties

1992 USopen "boring and easy'' third round match
Sabatini vs Zvereva

BJHCmj7Puk8
9c9mn7AV5H8

1992 Amelia Island FInal
o4EeyDXDzOc

Le Tenisse
May 2nd, 2011, 04:19 AM
https://si3.twimg.com/profile_images/1016926567/matt_me__normal.jpg TennisReporters (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters) Matt Cronin
@trixiemck (http://twitter.com/trixiemck) I liked Gaby but take a hard look at her resume & get back to me -- not a legit Hall of Famer.27 Apr (https://twitter.com/#!/TennisReporters/status/63322439702167552)


:speakles:

azinna
May 2nd, 2011, 04:54 AM
Bodo and Cronin are the worst "journalists" to provide rebuttals to ASV's rather precise comments. They are entirely too sloppy and capricious for such work.

For example, I don't think she actually says that at any 1-, 2- or 3-year period in the 90s there were 8 players winning slams. Rather, that there were 8 players engaging in very competitive and variety-laced battle. Even when losing, ASV, Capriati, Davenport, MJF, Graf, Hingis, Martinez, Navratilova, Novotna, Pierce, Venus, Sabatini, Seles and Serena often gave us delicious matches.

She's also very precise in saying that the actual winners of slams and big tournaments were serious champs, fewer instances than now of players winning because they performed less badly than the others. And the #1-ranked player was pretty much the undisputedly best player of the season, and known among and beyond fans, mostly because of her performances on the biggest stages.

ASV is also very precise in citing the greater power and physicality of the current game being an issue. I'd only add that the real issue is how difficult it as made it for top players to maintain their physical health and form.

....