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View Full Version : Wozniacki's chances (or lack thereof) to win the 2011 French Open


chuvack
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.

Let me make it clear that I don't place the Woz in the same category as Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players. She's as worthy a #1 as the WTA could hope for right now. But an RG title this year is very unlikely. There are just too many players capable of beating her on the clay.

update: Wozniacki has now been spanked twice in 10 days by Julia Goerges, who is not even a particularly good clay-courter or one of the favorites for RG.

InsideOut.
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.

Let me make it clear that I don't place the Woz in the same category as Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players. She's as worthy a #1 as the WTA could hope for right now. But an RG title this year is very unlikely. There are just too many players capable of beating her on the clay.

How were Safina and Jankovic bigger embarrassments? None of those two or Wozniacki managed to win Slams, but they ALL won a lot of big tournaments and rightfully took the number 1 ranking.

terjw
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:04 AM
How were Safina and Jankovic bigger embarrassments? None of those two or Wozniacki managed to win Slams, but they ALL won a lot of big tournaments and rightfully took the number 1 ranking.

Exactly. They deserved their #1 and very very few players manage to achieve that. The only thing I find embarrasing is a so-called tennis fan who will never achieve abything in their lives remotely like JJ, Dinara and Caro calling their achievments embarrasments.

As for Caro's chances at RG. She looks the favourite - but it really is wide open and a chance for a lot of players and very likely we get a new slam winner whoever it is. And although Caro's the favourite, the chances of her not winning and hence someone else winning are much much greater than the chance of her winning. That goes the same for any player.

I do think clay is a surface Caro could do well on though. Haven't really seen her much on red clay since she's improved remembering she was injured last year during the red clay seaon from rolling her ankle.

poulao
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:23 AM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.

Let me make it clear that I don't place the Woz in the same category as Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players. She's as worthy a #1 as the WTA could hope for right now. But an RG title this year is very unlikely. There are just too many players capable of beating her on the clay.

Of Cause you may voice your opinion, but saying "Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments" is bad taste I think. They have done the best they could, why is that an "embarrassment"? That there where others that where better than them, that's just how it is. So we'll see how it goes for Caroline, but she will never be an embarrassment to her self nor anyone else if she geves it her best shot. :)

goldenlox
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:26 AM
I think Caro is a real longshot at Wimbledon.
At the FO, I'm still not sure. I want to see Madrid & Rome.
Caro has not won a red clay title yet. But I think clay might become her best surface over hard court.

I'm very much looking forward to these next few weeks.


And I disagree with this
"Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players"

They did the best they could do, that time was when slam winners were not winning Tier I's and Tier II's. They did their job.
That's all you can ask of these women.

KapitalL
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:34 AM
She'll always be in danger of looking powerless against big hitting players who play with confidence like Goerges or Petkovic if they hit some really good form, and that's almost bound to happen in the later stages I guess.
Problem with Woz is that, though she's consistently good, or very good, she is rarely great/awesome/godlike (it does happen sometimes :)), and anything but great isn't good enough when you face a player that can hit with power off both sides and doesn't make a lot of ue's.

To her credit she does seem to cope much better with variety, players like Schiavone and MJMS that used to give her a lot of headaches look pretty much powerless against her now as she improved on her all court skills.

But she has to develop a game for the big hitters if she wants to win a few slams.

With all that said I think she's got a very good chance this year. Yes, there are girls who can hurt her but a lot of things have to add up for Azarenka, Stosur, Zvonareva, Petkovic, Wickmayer etc.. for them to be a real threat,..Wozniacki will do well, will it be enough I don't know but given the competition right now it just might.

KBlade
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:37 AM
There's only been one REAL red clay court event of the season and that was Stuttgart. I'm no Caro-fan, but she made it to the final? That's a very decent result given the quality of the field, so don't you think it's a little to early to be making these accusations now?

Maybe this thread will have relevance if she bombs out in Rome and Madrid.

MiiMo
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Safina and Jankovic was better world number 1 than Caroline, sorry.

Kworb
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:24 PM
The only player who was a complete embarrassment to the #1 ranking was Ana Ivanovic. As world #1 she hardly won any matches and humiliated herself and the tour by being who she is. Her stint at #1 is a black page in the history of the WTA tour.

Wozniacki is more of a favorite at RG '11 than Ivanovic has been and ever will be in any tournament.

chuvack
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:38 PM
Wozniacki is more of a favorite at RG '11 than Ivanovic has been and ever will be in any tournament.


While it pains me to waste my time refuting complete and utter BS, it's necessary to point out that Ivanovic was one of the top 3 favorites for RG '08, based both on her form going in, and on having reached the final the previous year.

rimon
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:43 PM
It's a common misconception that less powerful players have the best chance to win on clay. Look at Martina Hingis, she was far better on hard courts han she was on clay. The same as Caro. I give her next to no chance at the RG. Without a doubt her best chances to win a slam are AO/USO.

rimon
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:47 PM
Of Cause you may voice your opinion, but saying "Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments" is bad taste I think. They have done the best they could, why is that an "embarrassment"? That there where others that where better than them, that's just how it is. So we'll see how it goes for Caroline, but she will never be an embarrassment to her self nor anyone else if she geves it her best shot. :)

I do think that Safina was an embarrassment. She reached 3 slam finals, and choked and folded like cheap tent in all three. At least Jankovic played a good, close and competitive match in her lone slam final.

thegreendestiny
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:50 PM
The only player who was a complete embarrassment to the #1 ranking was Ana Ivanovic. As world #1 she hardly won any matches and humiliated herself and the tour by being who she is. Her stint at #1 is a black page in the history of the WTA tour.

Wozniacki is more of a favorite at RG '11 than Ivanovic has been and ever will be in any tournament.

Exactly. People here often forget how Ana embarrassed WTA when she was No.1.

KBlade
Apr 29th, 2011, 12:55 PM
Exactly. People here often forget how Ana embarrassed WTA when she was No.1.

The reason it's forgotten is because she won a slam :shrug:

Vamos Feńa
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.



Well, as far as I know clay is the slowest surface, and it has been prefered by players from Spain, Italy, South America who were taught to play defensive, becuase clay suits their game perfectly. :shrug: That is why offensive players (Sampras, Federer) had serious problems with becoming a RG champion.
Woz is a defensive player, so she should be able to play good here, of course if only her movement on clay wasn't so bad...

The statement "is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game" would be correct if you would talk about grass. There Woz is totally useless IMO.

chuvack
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:21 PM
The statement "is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game" would be correct if you would talk about grass. There Woz is totally useless IMO.


I would argue the opposite. The grass actually speeds up the Woz's grounstrokes through the court, making them more offensive, whereas the clay highlights her problems with generating pace. Look at Leyton Hewitt, a player with a relatively defensive game who played far better on grass and hard than he did on clay, for similar reasons.

rimon
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:22 PM
Well, as far as I know clay is the slowest surface, and it has been prefered by players from Spain, Italy, South America who were taught to play defensive, becuase clay suits their game perfectly. :shrug: That is why offensive players (Sampras, Federer) had serious problems with becoming a RG champion.
Woz is a defensive player, so she should be able to play good here, of course if only her movement on clay wasn't so bad...

The statement "is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game" would be correct if you would talk about grass. There Woz is totally useless IMO.

Woz wl never win Wimbledon, I am sure of that. I loved Martina, but her winning Wimbledon was an absolute fluke IMO. Her being a Wimbledon champion but not RG is just :tape:

MaBaker
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:23 PM
She won't win any slam this year. Safina and Jankovic were less embarrassments as no.1s than Wozniacki.

rimon
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:23 PM
I would argue the opposite. The grass actually speeds up the Woz's grounstrokes through the court, making them more offensive, whereas the clay highlights her problems with generating pace. Look at Leyton Hewitt, a player with a relatively defensive game who played far better on grass and hard than he did on clay, for similar reasons.

No, gras is far too quick for Woz, and clay is far too slow. She needs the balance of a hard court, enough pace (but not too much) to use from the oponent's ball. Clay gives her little pace.

Protoss
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:48 PM
No, gras is far too quick for Woz, and clay is far too slow. She needs the balance of a hard court, enough pace (but not too much) to use from the oponent's ball. Clay gives her little pace.
Grass is quick? :p

bandabou
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Caro's first major is gonna be at the U.S. open..everybody knows that. RG depends on the draw..Wimbledon is non-winnable for Caro.

Mynarco
Apr 29th, 2011, 01:51 PM
How was Safina or Jankovic reaching #1 an embarrassment?

BepaMaria
Apr 29th, 2011, 02:42 PM
Wozniacki as a world #1 is a far bigger embarrassment than Safina and Jankovic who had slam finals in their 12 month resume when they were #1.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, objectively speaking Wozniacki's style of play does not benefit her on clay. On the slow surface, her pushing weaknesses are fully exposed and this is why she has zero chance of winning RG not just this year, but for the rest of her career as I don't see her changing to a more aggressive game. Losing to amateur players such as Bondarenko, Schiavone and Goerges on clay in the past one year is evidence of her failure.

Matt01
Apr 29th, 2011, 02:51 PM
No, gras is far too quick for Woz, and clay is far too slow.


Woz can play just fine on both surfaces. She won Eastbourne and just reached a final in Stuttgart you know. :rolleyes:

Break My Rapture
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:29 PM
There is going to be a day when she lucks out and goes on to win her first, sadly.
Woz can play just fine on both surfaces. She won Eastbourne and just reached a final in Stuttgart you know. :rolleyes:
The highest ranked player she beat in both those tournaments was Aga at #14 in Suttgart.
Plus she lost to Rezai in Eastbourne R1 last year so this argument means squat.

VishaalMaria
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:32 PM
I think she has a good a chance as anyone.

The people that are capable of beating her are also susceptible to losing at any point.

danieln1
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:38 PM
I think Davenport was number 1 seed in 2005..... Definetely she was less favoured to win than Woz right now!

Anyway I see a QF/SF exit for her, she will run into a red hot player.... But it would ve awesome if she wins this......

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:48 PM
I honestly dont completely agree with most who believe that clay is wozniacki's worst surface, that should logically be grass because she doesnt have the strokes to "skid" off the grass easily. Not to mention the fact that she is never going to be a venus or davenport when it comes to net ability.
But the main problem with Wozniacki is her overly loopy forehand, which is not near compact enough to be effective. Typically strokes that have big windups/long production are easy to mess with by either hitting the ball hard or taking it early, to rob them of time to properly setup. Clay allows Wozniacki more time to properly hit through that forehand, which presumably would make her game less attackable. On top of that she is a great thinker, and clay is typically the surface that benefits smart tactical play.

AcesHigh
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.

Let me make it clear that I don't place the Woz in the same category as Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players. She's as worthy a #1 as the WTA could hope for right now. But an RG title this year is very unlikely. There are just too many players capable of beating her on the clay.

You needed a new thread for this? :rolleyes:
And neither SAfina or Jankovic were embarrassments as #1.

Ana was the only embarrassment as #1

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:59 PM
It wasnt Ivanovic's fault that Henin retired in 08, so I dont get that part. But Safina definitely was a useless number 1, worst in history in my opinion..... Nothing in her game was all that special. After she couldnt break through and win a slam, she realized it, and has been a basket case ever since.....

danieln1
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:04 PM
You needed a new thread for this? :rolleyes:
And neither SAfina or Jankovic were embarrassments as #1.

Ana was the only embarrassment as #1

WTF?? Now you're saying that a slamless number 1 is better than a slam winner number 1??? Ana cemented her status as number 1 with that title, she had an amazing 07-08 until Roland Garros...... Stop spreading bullshit

C. Drone
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:07 PM
It wasnt Ivanovic's fault that Henin retired in 08, so I dont get that part. But Safina definitely was a useless number 1, worst in history in my opinion..... Nothing in her game was all that special. After she couldnt break through and win a slam, she realized it, and has been a basket case ever since.....
oh yes, Ana won like 4 match being #1 while Dinara won like... 40?
yeah, playing with broken back is really a basket case... what is Ana's excuse? broken brain? :rolleyes:

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:10 PM
Im not denying the fact that Ivanovic isnt as good as, say Jankovic, when it comes to natural talent. But she still had the big guns to wing a major, Safina did not. Regardless of how long she managed to hold number 1, she wasnt bringing it when it counted at the grand slams during that time. Hingis was number 1 for a large portion of 2000, but did she bring it when it mattered at the grand slams? No.

AcesHigh
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:18 PM
It wasnt Ivanovic's fault that Henin retired in 08, so I dont get that part. But Safina definitely was a useless number 1, worst in history in my opinion..... Nothing in her game was all that special. After she couldnt break through and win a slam, she realized it, and has been a basket case ever since.....

WTF?? Now you're saying that a slamless number 1 is better than a slam winner number 1??? Ana cemented her status as number 1 with that title, she had an amazing 07-08 until Roland Garros...... Stop spreading bullshit

Ana's record as #1 is probably the worst ever

Sean.
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:33 PM
Depending on Rome/Madrid she'll probably be the favourite going in. But there are quite a few players that can take her out if they hit a streak of form.

faboozadoo15
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:15 PM
Woz wl never win Wimbledon, I am sure of that. I loved Martina, but her winning Wimbledon was an absolute fluke IMO. Her being a Wimbledon champion but not RG is just :tape:

Martina was a brilliant fastcourt player though. She was a marvel indoors and on carpet, and she had the best net play in the game. She became too passive and could be outgunned in the later part of her career.

She was great on clay too... She had a mental block against RG.

JAS_
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Ana's record as #1 is probably the worst ever

During her time at no. 1, Ana Ivanovic played only one tournament before sustaining the thumb injury that caused her to withdraw from the Olympics and lose in the first round of USO.
That tournament was Wimbledon, which she exited in the third round, not such a shocking thing for someone who had just won their first GS title in the previous tournament. Maybe the lesser embarassements in this story would do better in keeping the level up in the next tourney after the GS title, when the next tourney is another GS. Oh, wait...

Moreveor, no. 1 signifies the placement of a player in the rankings that corresponds to the quality of their play in the year PRIOR to the ranking, not after.
And in the 1 year period before becoming no. 1, Ana had played in 3 GS finals and won one, thus it was well deserved.
When the other "non-embarassments" achieve that in their career (never mind in one year) then come back so we can talk.

P.S: Not that I think that either one of these players is in any way, shape or form an embarassment.

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:43 PM
I do have to say im suprised that Ivanovic managed to make 2 consecutive FO finals, I mean when you think clay, you certaintly dont think ivanovic. That would be like thinking of jankovic when you say grass or schiavone when you say hardcourt. I think ana just happened to have her peak points during the time that the clay season was going on. It really had nothing to do with clay istelf, just that she peaked during those times.
Lets face is, she moves like a cow (well, better than a cow, but not by alot), isnt the biggest tactical thinker out there, and doesnt use a huge amount of spin. Her game just isnt clay material, yet she has a FO and a final there under her belt. But jankovic has never had a slam final there? weird stuff indeed.....

AndreConrad
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:46 PM
You needed a new thread for this? :rolleyes:
And neither SAfina or Jankovic were embarrassments as #1.

Ana was the only embarrassment as #1
I don't think anybody was or is an embarrassment. Even Ana, there is nothing embarrassing about how she got to be #1. Ana had just hard time with the pressure being there and if I remember correctly it was followed by an injury which deepened her issues.

As far as chances at RG I would say Caroline's are the highest. At this same time there is a lot of opponents that can beat her, so the trophy can be taken by quite a few players. I would say her chances are 20% as opposed to 15% for the next contender.

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:58 PM
it definitely is wide open. The players with naturally good claycourt games are mostly headcases. If they arent headcases they are lacking confidence or injured. Id really be keeping an eye on Serena more than anyone else though, she is supposed to be good for FO. Even though it is clay, and she is undeniably rusty, I still believe Serena can whip herself into GS winning form faster than anyone else out there, with maybe the exception of Kimmie.

danieln1
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:13 PM
During her time at no. 1, Ana Ivanovic played only one tournament before sustaining the thumb injury that caused her to withdraw from the Olympics and lose in the first round of USO.
That tournament was Wimbledon, which she exited in the third round, not such a shocking thing for someone who had just won their first GS title in the previous tournament. Maybe the lesser embarassements in this story would do better in keeping the level up in the next tourney after the GS title, when the next tourney is another GS. Oh, wait...

Moreveor, no. 1 signifies the placement of a player in the rankings that corresponds to the quality of their play in the year PRIOR to the ranking, not after.
And in the 1 year period before becoming no. 1, Ana had played in 3 GS finals and won one, thus it was well deserved.
When the other "non-embarassments" achieve that in their career (never mind in one year) then come back so we can talk.

P.S: Not that I think that either one of these players is in any way, shape or form an embarassment.

That clarifies it all, thanks...

Ana couldn´t play her usual level because the thumb injury, it was a very serious one and affected her best shot.... obviously that she would not have a great winning record sustaining that kind of injury...

Anyway, no point arguing about Ana, this thread is about Wozniacki and her chances at the French Open

Craig.
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:15 PM
Woz can play just fine on both surfaces. She won Eastbourne and just reached a final in Stuttgart you know. :rolleyes:

GOAT :cheer:

Stonerpova
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:17 PM
I don't see how Ivanovic was an embarrassment as #1. She was ranked #1 for a four month period of time, and she played something like four events as the top ranked player. She struggled with injury and she was still in her slam win honeymoon which soon became a slump phase.

But that's irrelevant. Wozniacki is in good form and she'll go into the tournament the top seed with what I'm sure will be good results at Rome, Madrid, Brussels, and whatever other tournaments she hears about and therefore decides to play. Clay is far and away her worst surface, but she could certainly do it. She has to, actually. I don't see her winning Wimbledon, and the Open is a long time to deal with the annoying #1 questions. It'll be good for the tour if she does win it.

faboozadoo15
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:34 PM
I do have to say im suprised that Ivanovic managed to make 2 consecutive FO finals, I mean when you think clay, you certaintly dont think ivanovic. That would be like thinking of jankovic when you say grass or schiavone when you say hardcourt. I think ana just happened to have her peak points during the time that the clay season was going on. It really had nothing to do with clay istelf, just that she peaked during those times.
Lets face is, she moves like a cow (well, better than a cow, but not by alot), isnt the biggest tactical thinker out there, and doesnt use a huge amount of spin. Her game just isnt clay material, yet she has a FO and a final there under her belt. But jankovic has never had a slam final there? weird stuff indeed.....

She actually moves really well on clay. Watch her RG semi against Jelena. She was moving great. The clay neutralizes her opponent's ability to bash a flat ball to her backhand (her vulnerability), and it giver hes more time to set up her monster forehand (something we haven't been seeing). She also used to have one of the heaviest serves in the game, which is also well-suited to a claycourt.

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:34 PM
How is Clay Wozniacki's worst surface? I mean honestly? Its grass!

And very well written Faboozadoo, that actually makes pretty good sense. Its just suprising to see a player like Ivanovic manage to do so well on Clay. I just dont immediately see how she manages, or managed, to be good on the surface. But the points you brought up do make sense...Especially the flat shot to her backhand.
I think what you said points to my belief that wozniacki's forehand will be benefited in much the same way. Its such an exaggerated stroke, not being pummeled by flat strokes on that wing will allow her more time to actually hit the forehand right. And, amazingly enough, she can actually hit a decent forehand..... when she has all the time in the world to hit it properly. Its just most times she doesnt do so.
Large cuts at the ball work for players like the Williams sisters, but not for Woz. Ultimately I believe she REALLY needs to work on making her forehand more compact, THAT will bring her to the next level. Too often is she not setup fully on her forehand side, and it makes the shot end up sitting up instead of going through the court, just begging to be punished. Make it more compact, and she has a better chance of getting forehands back while not in postition, and still getting them back with decent pace/depth.

Stonerpova
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:39 PM
I think Wozniacki is perfectly capable on grass. It's a surface that dictates that she is aggressive, she hits down the lines well, and plus grass is not nearly as quick as it was even five years ago. Of course, she has a risk of being outhit, but that's true on any surface. I think that's more likely to happen on clay than on grass. I don't see her winning Wimbledon as an impossibility, but that's me.

Matt01
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:52 PM
GOAT :cheer:


Did anyone say anything about GOAT? :weirdo:

Craig.
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:55 PM
Did anyone say anything about GOAT? :weirdo:

You need to get laid.

JCTennisFan
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:05 PM
How does she have a worse chance of being outhit on clay vrs grass? Her strokes have a decent amount of spin on them, and quite honestly she doesnt do a good job of flattening out those strokes, especially her forehand. Her strokes will sit up, vrs a serena or maria whose strokes will skid through the grass and off of it. On clay she has the best surface with which to use her superior movement, and hopefully tire out her competition. Until she makes that forehand more compact, her best chances are going to be to wear her opponents down ala Nadal, on clay.
And in my opinion Woz is much better at hitting shots CC vrs DTL.... but thats just me. She likes to go CC in order to exploit her superior movement over her opponents. Simply put, she is better at retreiving CC shots than most of her competition, thus she likes to get into those kinds of exchanges, because she usually wins them.

goldenlox
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:11 PM
Because she is 20 & had the fall in Charleston last year, its still hard to judge where Caro is on clay & grass.
In 2009 she made the Madrid final and won Eastbourne.
Last year after the injury she lost 2nd round Madrid and 1st round Eastbourne.

If she stays healthy, this year will tell a little more.

I watched a lot of matches of hers from Charleston & Stuttgart and thought she played her normal hard court style well.

But Madrid starts the real clay, so LETS GO!
I'm looking forward to see what she's got

Mary Cherry.
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:16 PM
Because she is 20 & had the fall in Charleston last year, its still hard to judge where Caro is on clay & grass.
In 2009 she made the Madrid final and won Eastbourne.
Last year after the injury she lost 2nd round Madrid and 1st round Eastbourne.

If she stays healthy, this year will tell a little more.

I watched a lot of matches of hers from Charleston & Stuttgart and thought she played her normal hard court style well.

But Madrid starts the real clay, so LETS GO!
I'm looking forword to see what she's got

But she's not playing any warm-up tournaments on grass this year. And given that Caro is the type of player who gets better the more matches she plays, I can't see her coming from Wozniacki Open and winning Wimbledon. I think US Open is her only real shot at a slam this year.

As for RG, Caro's definitely not the favourite but that said, who is? It's hard to see anyone winning it at the moment.

terjw
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:26 PM
But she's not playing any warm-up tournaments on grass this year. And given that Caro is the type of player who gets better the more matches she plays, I can't see her coming from Wozniacki Open and winning Wimbledon. I think US Open is her only real shot at a slam this year.

As for RG, Caro's definitely not the favourite but that said, who is? It's hard to see anyone winning it at the moment.

She's decided to enter Eastbourne now - the week after the Wozniacki Open..

Stonerpova
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:31 PM
How does she have a worse chance of being outhit on clay vrs grass? Her strokes have a decent amount of spin on them, and quite honestly she doesnt do a good job of flattening out those strokes, especially her forehand. Her strokes will sit up, vrs a serena or maria whose strokes will skid through the grass and off of it. On clay she has the best surface with which to use her superior movement, and hopefully tire out her competition. Until she makes that forehand more compact, her best chances are going to be to wear her opponents down ala Nadal, on clay.

She's not going to beat Sharapova or Serena on grass. That's not what I'm saying. I think that because grass is a medium paced court where the ball stays low Wozniacki will be able to use opponents' pace against them and use the down-the-lines to rob her opponents of time. On clay she's going to have to create more of her own pace, which is something, like you mentioned, that she's not great at. And unless she's hitting the ball extremely hard her best shot (backhand down the line) isn't going to be as effective. Clay also gives her opponents more time to set up their shots and choose an opportunity to go for a winner (case in point: the recent Stuttgart final).

The courts at Wimbledon favor both players with extremely flat strokes (the Williams sisters, Sharapova) and players with lots of spin (such as Federer or Nadal on the men's side). As someone who has played tournaments on grass before, I can tell you that grass takes whatever you give it, whether it's a flat or spinny ball. That's why slices and drop shots are effective. The ball just doesn't sit up on grass. I also think it's a common misconception that clay automatically favors defensive minded players. Wozniacki stays down to the ball well and is obviously an extremely good counterpuncher, and a quicker, low-bouncing court suits her fine as long as she hugs the baseline (see her recent US Open results). I'm not saying she has a huge chance to win Wimbledon this year, but maybe in the future.

Mary Cherry.
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:34 PM
She's decided to enter Eastbourne now - the week after the Wozniacki Open..

:tape:

Forget everything I said :lol:

Although, assuming she goes deep(ish) in every tournament, she'll have no break from now until the end of Wimbledon :help:


Either way, Wozniacki Open fucks up her schedule big time.

Matt01
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:47 PM
You need to get laid.


Thanks but I don't have time for that now.

Matt01
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:49 PM
She's decided to enter Eastbourne now - the week after the Wozniacki Open..


That's really ridiculous. Her scheduling is so :weirdo:

Corswandt
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:55 PM
The only player who was a complete embarrassment to the #1 ranking was Ana Ivanovic. As world #1 she hardly won any matches and humiliated herself and the tour by being who she is. Her stint at #1 is a black page in the history of the WTA tour.

Wozniacki is more of a favorite at RG '11 than Ivanovic has been and ever will be in any tournament.

:worship:

Corswandt
Apr 29th, 2011, 11:59 PM
I think Wozniacki is perfectly capable on grass. It's a surface that dictates that she is aggressive, she hits down the lines well, and plus grass is not nearly as quick as it was even five years ago. Of course, she has a risk of being outhit, but that's true on any surface. I think that's more likely to happen on clay than on grass. I don't see her winning Wimbledon as an impossibility, but that's me.

Daring to suggest that someone other than the Holy Sisters may win Wimbledon sometime over the next 30 years is sacrilege in TF. Now go do penance for this heinous blasphemy.

goldenlox
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:07 AM
She's decided to enter Eastbourne now - the week after the Wozniacki Open..Not really a surprise. If her home tournament tires her out, she wont go far in the Eastbourne. Its very deep, even in early rounds.

Last year her section was

Caro-Rezai
Zvonareva-MJMS

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:13 AM
I can kind of see where you are going with it, but I still dont believe that her BH DTL is her best shot, I honestly think it is her CC backhand shot. She really gets around the side of the ball to produce wonderful angles when she is in form.

And though Topspin can SORT OF work on grass, you have to have enough RPM to really get that ball to continue through the court after it has bounced... even on grass imo. It is much less so on grass than other surfaces, but topspin really is quite worthless unless you have the pace to back it up... otherwise your shots hit the court, then prop up and sit in the air for a bit before they spin back towards the ground.... giving players MORE time to setup for their shots.

Thats why The williams sisters are so good on Grass, or atleast partly why. Their strokes are relatively flat, and backed with pace it robs SO much time from their opponents. Grass will always help out the players who are more naturally aggressive, and Wozniacki isnt that.

Potato
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:16 AM
Wozniacki's games on clay and grass are pathetic compare to her hard court game. She has terrible movement on clay and cannot doesn't have the first strike tennis that grass requires. Her forehand is even more of a liability on these surfaces. She doesn't have the firepower of Ana or Serena, and she doesn't have the all court game of Henin/Sveta/Schiavone. Grass requires power or all-court sense, something that Wozniacki doesn't use. Who has been that last counterpuncher to win Wimbledon on the WTA?

Also, for people who say they don't understand how Ana's game suits clay, just :weirdo: the ball sits PERFECTLY up for her to bash her monster forehand and her movement on that surface is her best.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:17 AM
And I personally think that she can get by with NOT having to produce alot of power on clay. Since the ball travels through the court slower, it gives her more time to setup, and more time to properly transfer the opponents energy back at them.... just like a good counter-puncher should.
NOW, if she gets a player who gives her NO pace whatsoever, yeah, wozniacki is gonna have a big problem. But a player who is gonna try to "out-tactic" or "out-think" wozniacki isnt gonna get very far. She, imo, is one of the smartest players out there, if not the smartest, when it comes to exploiting weaknesses/playing tactically smart. Thats why she has done so good.... and clay will just give her all that more time to OUTTHINK her opponents.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:20 AM
Come on Potato, when you think of Clay, you hoenstly dont think of Ivanovic...... People which have largely done good on clay in history have played NOTHING like Ana did. Players with a style like Ivanovic's did well on grass and fast hardcourt, and did worst on clay. Does anyone think that Ivanovic's game is anything like Henin's, Schiavone's, or Seles/ASV? I dont.... and those were the best clay courters of the past 10 years, for the most part.

I do find it interesting that she seems to break that mold, but at first glance, Ivanovic's game definitely doesnt scream "im gonna be good on clay!"

goldenlox
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:30 AM
Come on Potato...!"Yeah! Come on Potato! :boxing::armed:

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:38 AM
Lol, I cant help that his name is a Vegetable! But seriously.... the only player I can remember in the past 10-15 years that won the FO and was a largely power hitter was Serena williams (when she made everyone look like ITF players in 2002) and Mary Pierce (who, when in "God-mode" could take down ANYONE on ANY surface).... only problem was she only got to use god-mode every 5 years or so, hah. So at the end of the day I really dont think Clay benefits power hitters.... unless your a fluke who is named Ana Ivanovic.

Potato
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:42 AM
Lol, I cant help that his name is a Vegetable! But seriously.... the only player I can remember in the past 10-15 years that won the FO and was a largely power hitter was Serena williams (when she made everyone look like ITF players in 2002) and Mary Pierce (who, when in "God-mode" could take down ANYONE on ANY surface).... only problem was she only got to use god-mode every 5 years or so, hah. So at the end of the day I really dont think Clay benefits power hitters.... unless your a fluke who is named Ana Ivanovic.

Ana Ivanovic is not a fluke on clay, maybe the title was sort of a fluke with Henin retiring and her easy ass draw but it is her best surface overall.

I can see what you're saying about Ana's game not screaming "clay", but once you watch it, I'm sure people will understand why. The ball bounce sits up with any mid pace shot perfectly for her to run around her forehand and just bash it, where it would be a winner on any surface. On hard courts and grass, you don't have that easy bounce. Also, on clay, her junkballing off the backhand is able to work better against the non power players as she did with JJ.

There's a reason that the FO was her most consistent slam result.

Lucemferre
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:49 AM
And I personally think that she can get by with NOT having to produce alot of power on clay. Since the ball travels through the court slower, it gives her more time to setup, and more time to properly transfer the opponents energy back at them.... just like a good counter-puncher should.
NOW, if she gets a player who gives her NO pace whatsoever, yeah, wozniacki is gonna have a big problem. But a player who is gonna try to "out-tactic" or "out-think" wozniacki isnt gonna get very far. She, imo, is one of the smartest players out there, if not the smartest, when it comes to exploiting weaknesses/playing tactically smart. Thats why she has done so good.... and clay will just give her all that more time to OUTTHINK her opponents.

:o That extra time you're talking about helps slow powerful players more than it helps Caro.It gives them more time to set up their big shots and lets them defend better. Wozniacki can move them around more easily on hard because now everybody can handle power,Caro uses their pace to steal time from them. But clay makes her more vulnerable than she is on hard. Her game isn't aggressive and there is more time to react so someone like görges or safina/ivanovic who knows how to play on clay has more time to attack and defend. Who does it help more?








And she should never win Wimbledon:tape:

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:55 AM
I didnt mean her run was a fluke... she earned that title. But her style of play just doesnt really typically seem like a style that would do good on Clay. You'd think that if the ball sat up perfectly for her to hit (which im not saying it doesnt) that a player, like say Sharapova would be able to crush it off BOTH wings. But she isnt really known for her clay ability. Same as Davenport, all 3 players are good hitters, but not the best movers, and davenport should of rightly been able to CLOBBER some of those shots which sit up, but she too didnt do well on clay.

I think the only thing that is different between sharapova and davenport, and Ivanovic is the fact that for some odd reason Ivanovic seemingly moves better on clay, whereas Sharapove and Davenport most certaintly didnt move better on clay. Either way you look at it though, its atypical.

Wiggly
Apr 30th, 2011, 12:58 AM
Her best chance in Europe is the French Open.
She isn't winning Wimbledon so she really needs to win in Paris in order to avoid coming to US Open with all that slamless pressure.

Lucemferre
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:01 AM
There is not one style that does well on a surface.Davenport and Sharapova are Americans:devil: It has something to do with their mindset too.They don't like clay.They don't know how to play on it.Some do,like Safina, ivanovic, pierce. Seles wasn't a typical clay courter either but she was excellent on it. If you know how to play on it being tall and powerful can be an advantage.Soderling is a total slow ballbasher too but he beat nadal at FO.

Matt01
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:02 AM
I didnt mean her run was a fluke... she earned that title. But her style of play just doesnt really typically seem like a style that would do good on Clay. You'd think that if the ball sat up perfectly for her to hit (which im not saying it doesnt) that a player, like say Sharapova would be able to crush it off BOTH wings. But she isnt really known for her clay ability. Same as Davenport, all 3 players are good hitters, but not the best movers, and davenport should of rightly been able to CLOBBER some of those shots which sit up, but she too didnt do well on clay.

I think the only thing that is different between sharapova and davenport, and Ivanovic is the fact that for some odd reason Ivanovic seemingly moves better on clay, whereas Sharapove and Davenport most certaintly didnt move better on clay. Either way you look at it though, its atypical.


You already have the right idea. Ana, unlike Lindsay or Maria or the WS, does move well on clay. And since there's nothing wrong with her game otherwise (as long as she doesn't break down mentally), it's only logical that she does well on clay and at RG.

The Dawntreader
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:03 AM
You already have the right idea. Ana, unlike Lindsay or Maria or the WS, does move well on clay. And since there's nothing wrong with her game otherwise (as long as she doesn't break down mentally), it's only logical that she does well on clay and at RG.

Says who? :spit:

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:03 AM
I still dont believe that it benefits power hitters more.... Sure they may have a little more time to setup for their shots... but if recent history proves anything..... it is that almost ALL the biggest hitters move well enough to where they can blast shots even on hardcourt or grass, where the ball moves through the court easier. Sure people like Davenport had more time to setup.... but you just dont see power hitters that move like davenport did anymore.... they just dont survive these days.
The simple fact of the matter is that the ball has MORE of its energy absorbed on impact when playing on clay, vrs hardcourt or grass. Because of this, players shots that would normally be winners on hardcourt travel through the court just that little bit slower... allowing superior movers to get to shots they normally wouldnt be able to on grass or hardcourt. So yeah, you get more time to set your shot up.. but your shot doesnt have NEAR as much bite on it after it impacts the ground.... so it really dosent help power players all that much.

If anything it just gives superior movers like Woz or Clijsters even more time to counterpunch, if they so choose. Clay basically nullifies power... it almost kinda handcuffs most power players. NOBODY's strokes are gonna go through the court on clay like they would on a hardcourt... alot of the reason why Federer had such problems with that surface.... he couldnt get near as many winners while playing on it.

Matt01
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:06 AM
Says who? :spit:


I'm saying that. Do you have a problem with that? :p

The Dawntreader
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:07 AM
I'm saying that. Do you have a problem with that? :p

Are you saying Wozniacki's game is seamless?

Matt01
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:09 AM
Are you saying Wozniacki's game is seamless?


I was talking about Ivanovic.

The Dawntreader
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:12 AM
I was talking about Ivanovic.

:sobbing:

Still applies though.

faboozadoo15
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:19 AM
I didnt mean her run was a fluke... she earned that title. But her style of play just doesnt really typically seem like a style that would do good on Clay. You'd think that if the ball sat up perfectly for her to hit (which im not saying it doesnt) that a player, like say Sharapova would be able to crush it off BOTH wings. But she isnt really known for her clay ability. Same as Davenport, all 3 players are good hitters, but not the best movers, and davenport should of rightly been able to CLOBBER some of those shots which sit up, but she too didnt do well on clay.

I think the only thing that is different between sharapova and davenport, and Ivanovic is the fact that for some odd reason Ivanovic seemingly moves better on clay, whereas Sharapove and Davenport most certaintly didnt move better on clay. Either way you look at it though, its atypical.

Sharapova and Davenport honed their skills in Florida and California respectively. It's no great surprise that they aren't as comfortable on the red dirt as someone like Ana, who moves extremely well for her height on red clay. Davenport and Sharapova have both won tournaments on green and red clay though in spite of not playing much on either surface. It goes to show that it can be done. Sharapova has also lost to really good claycourters at Roland Garros over the years-- Safina twice, Ana, Justine twice. The only bad loss is to Cibulkova, but she had gone through 4 three set matches after surgery to get to that match. Davenport seemed to lack the motivation at Roland Garros, and Shaapova is hungry everywhere.

Matt01
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:27 AM
:sobbing:

Still applies though.


The answer is yes either way.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:27 AM
Very true, but to be a devil's advocate one could say that Ivanovic should move WORST out of the three because if I recall correctly she trained for a time in a drained swimming pool! Cant think that having litterally NOWHERE to move would be a good learning experience for clay in the future, lol. Though wasnt jankovic also trained at the same place? if so, maybe that explains partly why she isnt as good on clay as her game would make you think, she didnt grow up with that sort of surface, or even a big enough place to really "move" in.

Vikapower
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:32 AM
The only player who was a complete embarrassment to the #1 ranking was Ana Ivanovic. As world #1 she hardly won any matches and humiliated herself and the tour by being who she is. Her stint at #1 is a black page in the history of the WTA tour.

Wozniacki is more of a favorite at RG '11 than Ivanovic has been and ever will be in any tournament.

Who cares the girl has a major... has accomplished all her dreams... she can get anybody boys, girls or travesties into her bed with an ajde and live for everlastingly happy tourmenting your poor little spirit with the happiness, admiration, applause, brilliance, ecstasy... she can produce by the elasticity of her waist and her back-forward with the masculine stick... I meant her racket... (Damn. Hopefully racket is masculine...)

Trashbin players only gain relevance by exposing their washed up arse (JJ...) or planifying immature Kangaroo jokes... BTW note how the dudesses of that cat. always get the delusional fan's favors with all sorts of major stupid predictions... :lol:

Yes Caro is a heavier favourite than Ana for RG... Nadal is a heavier favourite than Djokovic for RG... Vee is a heavier favourite than Caro for US Open... TF at it's best. Bridge. You.

darrinbaker00
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:34 AM
Let's try to be objective. The RG clay is not a good surface for the Woz as it exposes the lack of offense in her game. Plus she goes in with all the "Slamless #1" pressure on her. I can't think of a time when the #1 seed at RG was less of a favorite to win the title in Paris.

Let me make it clear that I don't place the Woz in the same category as Safina and Jankovic who were embarrassments as the WTA #1 players. She's as worthy a #1 as the WTA could hope for right now. But an RG title this year is very unlikely. There are just too many players capable of beating her on the clay.

Wozniacki's chances of winning Roland Garros are the same as everyone else's: 1 in 128. Next topic, please.

tkutsaar
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:39 AM
I really think the premise of this thread is laughable. It buys into the mantra of the Caro haters and detractors who suggest that Caro cannot win a grand slam event. What is even more humorous about such prognostication is that even credible tennis pundits are spouting the line that her game has to become more aggressive if she were to hope to win a grand slam. But no one questions the logic of such assertions they just grab on this notion and run with it.

First of all let’s examine the mystique that a grand slam event is the ultimate predicator of a tennis player’s prowess. Now it takes no genius to realize a grand slam tournament victory is more difficult to achieve than a regular WTA tournament- winning 7 matches in a row is obviously a lot harder than winning six matches or five matches or less in a row. And that I maintain is truly the only difference between a grand slam tournament and a regular WTA tournament. There is nothing else magical about a slam event that requires a player to play differently or change her game between the two.

This is not like the question of surfaces where obviously one plays differently on clay then when one plays on grass. If one can win a tournament on clay then one can win at FO; if one can win on grass then one can win Wimbledon; if one can win on HC then one can win USO and/or AO. Some players have skills that do well on one particular surface but not so much on others. Ergo we have examples like the Williams sisters and Martina Navratilova who were/are formidable at Wimbledon but are mediocre at the FO. Likewise at the other spectrum we have Chris Evert the all time clay court champion snag 7 FOs but a mere three Wimbledons. Incidentally just as an aside that is why I consider that Steffi Graf is the greatest women’s tennis player of all time for her equal prowess on all surfaces.

So what I am trying to say is that yes some players my win some titles on WTA and be unlucky not to snag a grand slam title (read Elena Dementieva); but it is impossible for a player to be dominant at grand slams and be a failure at regular tournaments.

Getting back to Caro; she has won 15 WTA titles and based on her performance of the last two years that puts her on pace barring serious injuries to win nearly a 100 WTA tour titles when she reaches the age of 30. You may not know this but there are only three players with over 100 WTA titles- Navratilova, Evert and Graf- Serena by contrast has 37 WTA titles. So given such mathematical statistics what do you think are the real odds of Caro not winning a slam in her career?

As for this year’s FO Caro has demonstrated that she can win on clay and she has demonstrated that she can beat any player entered or to be entered in the FO this year- the WS and Clijsters will not be in the field. So it has to be illogical to even contemplate that she has no chance of winning the FO. She will be the favorite and rightly so but of course there is no certainty that she will win it. That’s the nature of sports.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:40 AM
Id put her chances a little higher than that :), she may not be slam winning capable yet, but one thing she has shown to be is freakin consistent. Id be more suprised if Wozniacki lost in the first round of the FO than if she went on to win it. She may not be able to put on a show like Serena or Kim can when playing well, but she also doesnt bomb out to someone ranking #75 in the world either.

The Dawntreader
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:45 AM
Wozniacki's chances of winning Roland Garros are the same as everyone else's: 1 in 128. Next topic, please.

Cheers for that. Another fascinating debate you've just initiated:o

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 01:56 AM
I highly doubt that Wozniacki is gonna win 100 titles, she is on a nice run, but I HIGHLY doubt she'll keep this sort of title winning pace up for long.

rimon
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:17 AM
Woz can play just fine on both surfaces. She won Eastbourne and just reached a final in Stuttgart you know. :rolleyes:

Is that why Kvitova hit her off the court?

ExXotikal
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:33 AM
How were Safina and Jankovic bigger embarrassments? None of those two or Wozniacki managed to win Slams, but they ALL won a lot of big tournaments and rightfully took the number 1 ranking.

Safina was not an embarasment I agree with you.

But Jankovic? Girlfriend couldn't even win a super Tier I to save her life, only had (and still has) 1 GS final under her belt. At this point of their career Caroline is already ahead of her in terms of credibility. She may only have one GSfinal under her belt (I bet it will change very soon) but she wins titles at a pace Jankovic could only dream of.

Thank you.

http://xmages.net/storage/10/1/0/4/4/upload/9df1178d.gif

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:38 AM
Oh come on Safina a better player than Jankovic? Seriously? Safina was the biggest mug number 1 we have had, no doubt about it. Not even a discussion really. Atleast Wozniacki has a good head/movement. Jankovic had killer movement/backhand during her stint. Ivanovic had a nice serve/forehand during her stint. Tell me exactly what Safina did good? All her shots looked ugly and forced, she was a prime example of a muscler of the ball. She certaintly didnt have the touch and timing of a Henin, thats for dang sure.

tkutsaar
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:49 AM
Wozniacki's chances of winning Roland Garros are the same as everyone else's: 1 in 128. Next topic, please.

And of course if that truly is the cas then I wonder why the need for seeding and the rationale for it?

AcesHigh
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:50 AM
During her time at no. 1, Ana Ivanovic played only one tournament before sustaining the thumb injury that caused her to withdraw from the Olympics and lose in the first round of USO.
That tournament was Wimbledon, which she exited in the third round, not such a shocking thing for someone who had just won their first GS title in the previous tournament. Maybe the lesser embarassements in this story would do better in keeping the level up in the next tourney after the GS title, when the next tourney is another GS. Oh, wait...

Moreveor, no. 1 signifies the placement of a player in the rankings that corresponds to the quality of their play in the year PRIOR to the ranking, not after.
And in the 1 year period before becoming no. 1, Ana had played in 3 GS finals and won one, thus it was well deserved.
When the other "non-embarassments" achieve that in their career (never mind in one year) then come back so we can talk.

P.S: Not that I think that either one of these players is in any way, shape or form an embarassment.

As a #1, there are certain things expected of you and that is why Wozniacki is getting such flak although she's been pretty dominant.

Ana was awful. And if you show up on court, you are healthy enough to play. End of discussion. there are really no excuses.

RenaSlam.
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:00 AM
I'd give her about a 1/3 chance to win. I am still not convinced that clay is one of her better surfaces.

edificio
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:01 AM
A good draw and some good luck, Woz definitely has a chance to win.

Matt01
Apr 30th, 2011, 11:20 AM
Is that why Kvitova hit her off the court?


Woz is a better player now while Kvitova loses first round in Challengers thee days :wavey:

Mekoro
Apr 30th, 2011, 11:43 AM
With her great defensive game, her ability to avoid hitting errors and her ability to play smart against her opponents, Wozniacki has qualities required to play on clay.

That being said, I don't recall anybody who had great success on clay without a good forehand. You really need a powerful forehand to direct the rallies on clay and to finish off a point.

That's something that is a problem for Wozniacki and that's why she is better on hardcourts. For the moment her game is too weak and too light to win RG I would say but as there are no clay specialists left and as the better players are not playing, she still has her chances.

terjw
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:25 PM
During her time at no. 1, Ana Ivanovic played only one tournament before sustaining the thumb injury that caused her to withdraw from the Olympics and lose in the first round of USO.
That tournament was Wimbledon, which she exited in the third round, not such a shocking thing for someone who had just won their first GS title in the previous tournament. Maybe the lesser embarassements in this story would do better in keeping the level up in the next tourney after the GS title, when the next tourney is another GS. Oh, wait...

Moreveor, no. 1 signifies the placement of a player in the rankings that corresponds to the quality of their play in the year PRIOR to the ranking, not after.
And in the 1 year period before becoming no. 1, Ana had played in 3 GS finals and won one, thus it was well deserved.
When the other "non-embarassments" achieve that in their career (never mind in one year) then come back so we can talk.

P.S: Not that I think that either one of these players is in any way, shape or form an embarassment.

I must admit - in contrast to her title at RG - I never ever think of Ana as having earned that #1. Yes those points as you say you say were gained in the 12 months before and were well earned. But Justine had earned more. And I think it was totaally wrong of the WTA to have removed Justine's points whilst she was at #1 just because she asked. They should have waited until she'd naturally dropped off #1 and removed them then.

Having said that - I don't like the term embarrassment being applied to a player who has got to #1 in the official rankings. I think it was embarrasing some of the losses she had. But calling a player an embarrassment is not on in my book if they try except in disciplinary matters related to boorishness, behaviour or if deliberately tanking when not injured / ill.

CR3WLFC
Apr 30th, 2011, 03:05 PM
atleast 1 of her 7 opponents in the draw will have a good day and will beat her.

bright
Apr 30th, 2011, 03:08 PM
atleast 1 of her 7 opponents in the draw will have a good day and will beat her.
Yep.

But usually they are having bad days, aren't they? Makes me wonder what so special this Wozniacki has to cause 90% of her opponents to have a bad day when they play.:confused:

goldenlox
Apr 30th, 2011, 04:30 PM
I agree that some players on their A game will be tough for Caro.
Its not supposed to be easy.
The last 3 years, Fran, Sveta,Ana. I think the FO is not impossible for several players, Caro one of them

tkutsaar
Apr 30th, 2011, 07:11 PM
atleast 1 of her 7 opponents in the draw will have a good day and will beat her.

Well I guess it is safe to say there will not be 2 of her 7 opponents that will have a good day and beat her.

Stonerpova
Apr 30th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Well I guess it is safe to say there will not be 2 of her 7 opponents that will have a good day and beat her.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:11 PM
The reason, id venture to guess, why it seems that Wozniacki's opponents are often having "bad days" against her is because she is using her mind, and constructing the points to take advantage of her opponents weakness, whatever that be. Gotta think of Woz in the same light as Hingis.... Hingis used to dismantle her opponents by exploiting all their weaknesses. Admittedly Wozniacki doesnt do as good a job as Hingis did, but she does try to play in the same way.

Corswandt
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Come on Potato, when you think of Clay, you hoenstly dont think of Ivanovic...... People which have largely done good on clay in history have played NOTHING like Ana did. Players with a style like Ivanovic's did well on grass and fast hardcourt, and did worst on clay. Does anyone think that Ivanovic's game is anything like Henin's, Schiavone's, or Seles/ASV? I dont.... and those were the best clay courters of the past 10 years, for the most part.

I do find it interesting that she seems to break that mold, but at first glance, Ivanovic's game definitely doesnt scream "im gonna be good on clay!"

It's the bounce of the ball on clay. VIP's favoured hitting zone is waist high or higher. She struggles dealing with anything bouncing lower than that, particularly if it's skidding fast towards her (which is why she struggles so much against flat hitters on faster surfaces). On her BH side, she'll just fumble it. She also does well at IW, which is the highest bouncing hardcourt in the game, and that's no coincidence.

The reason, id venture to guess, why it seems that Wozniacki's opponents are often having "bad days" against her is because she is using her mind, and constructing the points to take advantage of her opponents weakness, whatever that be. Gotta think of Woz in the same light as Hingis.... Hingis used to dismantle her opponents by exploiting all their weaknesses. Admittedly Wozniacki doesnt do as good a job as Hingis did, but she does try to play in the same way.

And I personally think that she can get by with NOT having to produce alot of power on clay. Since the ball travels through the court slower, it gives her more time to setup, and more time to properly transfer the opponents energy back at them.... just like a good counter-puncher should.
NOW, if she gets a player who gives her NO pace whatsoever, yeah, wozniacki is gonna have a big problem. But a player who is gonna try to "out-tactic" or "out-think" wozniacki isnt gonna get very far. She, imo, is one of the smartest players out there, if not the smartest, when it comes to exploiting weaknesses/playing tactically smart. Thats why she has done so good.... and clay will just give her all that more time to OUTTHINK her opponents.

You were actually saying some interesting stuff in here before posting the above.

Smitten
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:38 PM
She also does well at IW, which is the highest bouncing hardcourt in the game, and that's no coincidence.







Canada is higher bouncing, but she's won there too in 2006.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:40 PM
Oh come on, Wozniacki is a good thinker on court. She isnt as good as hingis, but she reminds me an awful lot of her. And I still stand by the fact that she doesnt have to produce as much power on clay. On grass, it is hard to counterpunch consistently because the ball shoots through so fast that you arent going to be able to properly get to the ball as often as on clay. Clay gives you that little more time to get into position to return the ball. On top of that, once the ball hits the clay, a larger portion of its energy is absorbed vrs grass or hardcourt. Because of this, it slows down more after impact than it would on other surfaces. This allows defensive players a little more time to get to the ball.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:43 PM
And if a player is lacking in power, a reasonable alternative is to attempt to force your opponent out of position so that you can then hit to the open court. A good way Woz can do this is by using her great angle CC with her backhand to get her opponent out wide, then finish with a winner. You dont have to hit 90mph forehands to end a point if your opponent is not in position to retrieve said shot.

goldenlox
Apr 30th, 2011, 09:56 PM
All these questions are going to be answered in a month.
This week Caro might play Goerges, Stosur, Azarenka, then a final.

poulao
Apr 30th, 2011, 10:05 PM
I'm absolutely sure Caroline can do it, but at the same time, there is Fran who definetly wants to do it again and Sam who wants to do it one better, there the german trio Julia, Andrea and Sabine, just to name a few in form players, not forgeting Vika and there are other usual suspects bla. bla. bla. To be honest I'm looking forward to Madrid first. :) To bad we only have one vote :)

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 10:20 PM
She really is in an extremely similar situation to where Hingis was during 00-02. She has good strokes, relatively, but lacks the ability to overpower her opponents. Jankovic had a similar problem a few years back. You can either try to beef your game up, which Jankovic showed was not a smart tactic, or you can try to attack your opponents weaknesses. Now admittedly Hingis's forehand was not as easily attackable as Woz, but she was at her best when she got the opponent "flustered" so to speak.
The power players really need to get into a good groove to play at their best. If you keep them out of that groove they simply wont play up to their best. Thats the best thing to try to do if in Woz's shoes, imo. Hoping for misses isnt gonna cut it.

The Daviator
Apr 30th, 2011, 10:47 PM
I must admit - in contrast to her title at RG - I never ever think of Ana as having earned that #1. Yes those points as you say you say were gained in the 12 months before and were well earned. But Justine had earned more. And I think it was totaally wrong of the WTA to have removed Justine's points whilst she was at #1 just because she asked. They should have waited until she'd naturally dropped off #1 and removed them then.

Having said that - I don't like the term embarrassment being applied to a player who has got to #1 in the official rankings. I think it was embarrasing some of the losses she had. But calling a player an embarrassment is not on in my book if they try except in disciplinary matters related to boorishness, behaviour or if deliberately tanking when not injured / ill.

Even if that had happened, Ana would have become #1 after Montreal of that year.

When Ana became #1, her record was far superior to that of Wozniacki/Jankovic/Safina, that's why those three are lumped in together in the 'Worst #1' debate.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 11:23 PM
Well they are lumped together largely because they are slamless. I think it irritates people to see the players with the grand slams under their belt not being at the very top of the rankings. Id blam the point system largely for that, and that the tour is too long/exhausting.

JCTennisFan
Apr 30th, 2011, 11:29 PM
So the three things I think she needs to do....

1. Work on making that forehand wing more compact. Thankfully, she can start working on that right now, if she wanted to, and though it would take time to rework into her game, she is going into the slam where her big windup will be penalized least, so the time is better than ever to try to make that swing more compact. If she worked on it now, by W or the US Open she could very well have the new, more compact, stroke ironed out.

2. Watch Hingis tapes from the late 90s/early 00s against the power players. No1 managed to find a way to make up for their lack of power better than Hingis, in my opinion. She could possibly learn some things from watching how Martina constructed her points during her prime. She is young, she can only get better with age in this respect.

3. Work on flattening out her forehand. If she is ever gonna start getting some form of winners, she needs to flatten that forehand out. Your not gonna get a shot behind a player if it sits up constantly.

poulao
May 1st, 2011, 08:55 AM
So the three things I think she needs to do....

1. Work on making that forehand wing more compact. Thankfully, she can start working on that right now, if she wanted to, and though it would take time to rework into her game, she is going into the slam where her big windup will be penalized least, so the time is better than ever to try to make that swing more compact. If she worked on it now, by W or the US Open she could very well have the new, more compact, stroke ironed out.

2. Watch Hingis tapes from the late 90s/early 00s against the power players. No1 managed to find a way to make up for their lack of power better than Hingis, in my opinion. She could possibly learn some things from watching how Martina constructed her points during her prime. She is young, she can only get better with age in this respect.

3. Work on flattening out her forehand. If she is ever gonna start getting some form of winners, she needs to flatten that forehand out. Your not gonna get a shot behind a player if it sits up constantly.

To be honest, Caroline usually stays within her herself, sticks to what 'is good enough' and or 'what works' at that particular moment in time. (Wish can frustrates even some of her fans at times :lol: 'why doesn't she just hit the ball in anger' etc.) Caroline is a hard working young woman, she's not a 'I'm sleeping my day away' or 'lazy just stay in bed' kind of person :lol:, so I confident and would not be suprised if we see some, for her unusual things, happen with her this summer. ;)

chuvack
May 1st, 2011, 02:02 PM
I don't recall anybody who had great success on clay without a good forehand. You really need a powerful forehand to direct the rallies on clay and to finish off a point.




This is very true. While I would say that the backhand and forehand have close to equal importance on the other surfaces, on clay, the forehand is the more important stroke. And this creates a problem for the Woz. Her forehand is not bad, but it is too weak, as you say, to direct the rallies and finish the points.

The only players to win RG in the modern era who did not have an outstanding forehand would be Myskina in '04 and ASV (3 times, most recently in '98). So it can be done but it needs a bit of a fluke.

chuvack
May 5th, 2011, 03:45 PM
Another loss to Goerges doesn't bode too well for the Woz's RG chances... she needs to do something in Rome.

Young 8
May 5th, 2011, 04:54 PM
Another loss to Goerges doesn't bode too well for the Woz's RG chances... she needs to do something in Rome.

.....or perhaps in Paris

CloudAtlas
May 5th, 2011, 04:58 PM
She won like 3 matches in the clay season last year and then reached the QF's at Roland Garros losing to Francesca :shrug:

Similarly , this year she lost 6-1 6-0 to Vera in an exho and lost in her first match in Sydney to Cibulkova then reached semis of AO beating Cibulkova in straights along the way.

Grand Slams are a whole different ball park. The warm up is hardly indicative these days.

Jorn
May 5th, 2011, 05:09 PM
Caro train hard now, she hope to Top in RG so we never know...


But as the bookies have her as fave may be too much...

goldenlox
May 5th, 2011, 05:10 PM
I think this is a bad sign. She should have been motivated for this match. She was rested.
No excuse at all.
Still have to see Rome & Madrid. But this her worst loss since Li.
You dont want a player with Julia's results beating you 2 in a row

Njalle
May 5th, 2011, 07:35 PM
That result certainly lessens my expectations for RG. I hope it is just Goerges who is a headcase for Caro, and that she will end in the opposite end of the draw - but I think there's more to it.

BlueTrees
May 27th, 2011, 03:34 PM
:drive: