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Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Seeing as non-tennis has become a hot bed of sexuality related discussion recently I wanted to get the views of the forum on a real life situation that I find strange. I've changed their real names.

Megan, one of my mother's friends, is a lesbian in a happy civil partnership. However, she has taken the decision to have a sex change operation and live as a straight man. Thus far I see nothing strange.

What I do see as odd is that she has told my mother that because she is having this sex change that she will have to split from her partner, Katie, because Katie is a lesbian, and thus attracted to women - meaning that once she is a man her partner will no longer be attracted to her.

I can see the argument here, but don't really think it is logical. Even after Megan is a man, inside she will still be the person she was before - the person Katie fell in love with, a sex change will not change that. My understanding was that you were attracted to the person not to their gender, and so I don't see why Megan and Katie would have to split despite still both loving each other.

Am I alone in this opinion or have I misunderstood something? I'm interested to know your thoughts. If your partner had a sex change would you have to end the relationship because they are no longer a man/woman, regardless of the fact you still love them?

Mashabator
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:34 PM
I think the fact she is getting a sex change shouldnt really change the relationship she is still the same person she was before except the other gender like you said. she is still the person the other girl fell in love with.
Also what did katie have to say bout this?

Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:39 PM
My mother doesn't really know Katie, but as far as I'm aware she supports and understands Megan's decision to have a sex change. I think it's a mutual decision that they have to end their relationship rather than one of them desiring to.

Wigglytuff
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:41 PM
With the Katie person I don't see a problem. I find the sex change part more confusing.

Katie is a lesbian but she is also a person. When people fall in love and are in a relationship they expect to grow and change together but they still expect the person to remain the same in some key ways. I am certain that you would not be calling Katie strange if one day she woke up and Megan was a bear or turtle. You might say Megan is still the same Megan, but that's pc nonsense, Megan has changed drastically, who she is is completely different. I am sure Katie still loves the Megan she fell in love with, but she can no more marry and be in a relationship with megan the turtle than with just any old turtle.

I understand that a sex change doesn't turn you into a turtle but it's a device I am using to try make clear a different p o v that might be difficult to understand otherwise. In many or even most was Megan will remain the same but in other keys ways it is simply wishful thinking to say she hasn't changed.

There is nothing wrong with turtles, but Katie didn't marry a turtle. She should not be looked down on for not wanting to stay with one now.

Edit: and I hope megan is ok with Katie moving on. Because Megan can't have her cake and eat it too, either there is no difference in gender and which point either one is fine or there is a difference and thus being one is incompatible with who she is.

Kworb
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:42 PM
There always has to be a level of physical attraction. A different gender can change all that. I mean it's not just the parts that will be rebuilt. She'll take hormones and change entirely into the guy she wants to be. And that might not be who Katie wants to be with.

If only the inside of a person matters, we wouldn't even be gay or straight in the first place.

Just Do It
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:50 PM
Seeing as non-tennis has become a hot bed of sexuality related discussion recently I wanted to get the views of the forum on a real life situation that I find strange. I've changed their real names.

Megan, one of my mother's friends, is a lesbian in a happy civil partnership. However, she has taken the decision to have a sex change operation and live as a straight man. Thus far I see nothing strange.

What I do see as odd is that she has told my mother that because she is having this sex change that she will have to split from her partner, Katie, because Katie is a lesbian, and thus attracted to women - meaning that once she is a man her partner will no longer be attracted to her.

I can see the argument here, but don't really think it is logical. Even after Megan is a man, inside she will still be the person she was before - the person Katie fell in love with, a sex change will not change that. My understanding was that you were attracted to the person not to their gender, and so I don't see why Megan and Katie would have to split despite still both loving each other.

Am I alone in this opinion or have I misunderstood something? I'm interested to know your thoughts

To the gay men/women on TF: If your partner had a sex change would you have to end the relationship because they are no longer a man/woman, regardless of the fact you still love them?

Interesting. I am really not sure what would I do in this situation, but if I would be attracted to men only, and if my BF would have a sex change I would most likely end a relationship. Person who changes sex changes way of life completely and that for sure wouldn't be the same person anymore.
To add, I am completely against sex change, I find it disturbing.

Wigglytuff
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:50 PM
There always has to be a level of physical attraction. A different gender can change all that. I mean it's not just the parts that will be rebuilt. She'll take hormones and change entirely into the guy she wants to be. And that might not be who Katie wants to be with.

If only the inside of a person matters, we wouldn't even be gay or straight in the first place.

Game. Set. Match. Right there.

Hurley
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:56 PM
To the gay men/women on TF: If your partner had a sex change would you have to end the relationship because they are no longer a man/woman, regardless of the fact you still love them?

Ask the same question to the straight men/women on TF too.

Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 02:59 PM
Ask the same question to the straight men/women on TF too.

But straight men/women would very rarely, if ever, be in this situation as it's pretty much exclusively gay men/woman that have sex changes.

Hurley
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:05 PM
I don't think that's the case at all. But someone who has more information on that can inform me if I'm right.

Regardless -- it's irrelevant. If the same situation occurred in a straight relationship, do you think the reaction of the "control" member would be any different? In fact (not to stereotype), I think the love the inside/love the outside dichotomy would be even more pronounced.

You think many straight guys would stick with their girlfriend after she got pipe added?

WozLolz
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:16 PM
Chastity Chaz Bono's girlfriend stayed, as far as I'm aware. I guess it depends on the people involved. Money may be a factor in that one, though.:D

Kworb
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:16 PM
But straight men/women would very rarely, if ever, be in this situation as it's pretty much exclusively gay men/woman that have sex changes.
Not at all. Transgender people can be any sexuality. In fact I think it's pretty evenly distributed between hetero- and homosexual.

ampers&
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:17 PM
Gender. As far as whether or not I would react the way Katie did, it depends on how deep the connection my partner and I have at the time and whether or not it's strong enough to handle as drastic of an alteration in our relationship as a sex change operation. Knowing the kind of person I am now, I would not want to be with my partner if she became a man. But, again, it depends on that partner.

Sam L
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Even after Megan is a man, inside she will still be the person she was before - the person Katie fell in love with, a sex change will not change that.


Maybe. But after a sex change it's very likely that a person would change. It's a life changing event and people can change without even going through such a change.

Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:18 PM
Not at all. Transgender people can be any sexuality. In fact I think it's pretty evenly distributed between hetero- and homosexual.

Really? Ok, I didn't know that. I'll change the original post.

Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Some interesting responses & things I hadn't considered, thanks guys. :yeah:

Miss Amor
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:44 PM
You fall in love with a person but you are sexually attracted to a particular gender. For a relationship you need both, love and attraction. If my partner had a sex change operation, I wouldn't be attracted to him and so I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with him, doesn't mean I still wont love him.

Ciarán
Apr 7th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Interesting topic and one which will cause much debate I am sure. As much as I would love to fully believe that I would love a person unconditionally on a sexual level whether they had a vagina or a penis, I'm not going to lie. No I would not, otherwise I would be choosing to be straight right now and chasing after some pussy. Of course in order to love someone you fall in love with the person themselves and their personality but undoubtedly (as hard as it may be for some to admit) there has to be physical attraction. This is why we see some people as friends and some people as potential lovers. Maybe it's because I have never felt like I was in the wrong body, but I do not understand how someone can feel like that when your brain is programmed to know your anatomy.
I think wanting to change sex is purely cosmetic or some sort of mental condition, I do not believe we are born into the 'wrong' body. I also believe it's a very selfish thing to do, almost reaching the selfishness of suicide, because you're not just doing it for yourself but you are affecting those around you and essentially (to those closest to you) turning their lives upside down also. I think the real victim here is Katie. Katie fell in love with Megan and Megan allowed this even though she always felt like she was in the wrong body and someday would take some sort of action. Well maybe she didn't, maybe this is some sort of recent development in her mind...so therefore, she couldn't have been born that way could she? Which is why I believe it's cosmetic, mental fragility and selfish. I mean what did people do before having the ability to have a sex change? If they felt that way, they had to deal with it, like millions of gay people being stigmatized around the world.
Changing her sex is making her straight in a sense, because she will be recognized as a man who is attracted to women and turning her back on homosexuality and basically giving into some societies idea of what is right. I believe gay people should stick together globally and refuse to back down and refuse to give into what certain people want of us or think we should be. Can you imagine all gay people were forced into a sex change to make them straight? I feel she's almost promoting how easy this is by seeking the easy way out. Anyway, it's a combination of both and if someone I loved on a sexual level changed their gender I would not be attracted to them or love them in the same way.

pov
Apr 7th, 2011, 04:53 PM
In my world there is no separation between gender and person. In fact, it seems like a ridiculous notion to me. A person's gender is a key part of who they are.

Markus
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:33 PM
I think wanting to change sex is purely cosmetic or some sort of mental condition, I do not believe we are born into the 'wrong' body.
As I do not "understand" it either I read a couple of very convincing stories about boys and girls born in the wrong body. Mother nature is for sure not always right in the conception area.

Markus
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:37 PM
You think many straight guys would stick with their girlfriend after she got pipe added?
Sorry that made me laugh but that's boiling it down to the point. As someone said earlier, part of the relationship is sexual attraction and this will go away if your are not bisexual.

pov
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:42 PM
As I do not "understand" it either I read a couple of very convincing stories about boys and girls born in the wrong body. Mother nature is for sure not always right in the conception area.
I accept that some people feel off in a certain gender type and conclude that they were "born as the wrong sex." I also think that conclusion is simplistic and that the issue is far more multifaceted than it is treated as. For instance, many of the things used to judge "being in the wrong gendered body" are arbitrarily societally proscribed gender behaviors.

The Crow
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:44 PM
Megan, one of my mother's friends, is a lesbian in a happy civil partnership. However, she has taken the decision to have a sex change operation and live as a straight man. Thus far I see nothing strange.


Sorry, but this made me laugh.

The Crow
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:46 PM
But straight men/women would very rarely, if ever, be in this situation as it's pretty much exclusively gay men/woman that have sex changes.

Not really, I know a case of a straight couple where the man decided to have a sex operation. However, he was still attracted to women, so he turned in fact into a gay woman.

Dominic
Apr 7th, 2011, 05:57 PM
Well wether ppl want to admit or not, Sexual (physical) attraction is a big part of love, or falling in love with someone. If Megan is gonna have a sex change, not only is she gonna have a penis, but she'll be taking testosterone , thus have a deeper voice, more hair, and a much manlier figure with more muscle, obviously not sexually attractive to a lesbian.

Sean.
Apr 7th, 2011, 09:10 PM
Sorry, but that made me giggle :oh:

Sorry, but this made me laugh.

:ras: You know what I meant!

Pump-it-UP
Apr 7th, 2011, 10:09 PM
You fall in love with a person but you are sexually attracted to a particular gender. For a relationship you need both, love and attraction. If my partner had a sex change operation, I wouldn't be attracted to him and so I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with him, doesn't mean I still wont love him.
:worship: Must spread rep

moby
Apr 7th, 2011, 10:19 PM
But straight men/women would very rarely, if ever, be in this situation as it's pretty much exclusively gay men/woman that have sex changes.So not true. Anyway it's pretty much a hypothetical situation, because gay men/women would also very rarely be in this situation. I don't think straight people are less capable of imagination than gay ones. They can handle hypothetical questions too.

Edit: OK, I see you've edited the original post.

Anyway, the answer is that it's hard to say, but probably. It depends on how much I like that person - and I would have to like that person a lot.

debby
Apr 7th, 2011, 10:33 PM
Well wether ppl want to admit or not, Sexual (physical) attraction is a big part of love, or falling in love with someone. If Megan is gonna have a sex change, not only is she gonna have a penis, but she'll be taking testosterone , thus have a deeper voice, more hair, and a much manlier figure with more muscle, obviously not sexually attractive to a lesbian.

What about falling in love with someone you have never seen as attractive ? only average ? It happened to me more than once.

Apoleb
Apr 7th, 2011, 10:33 PM
It depends quite a bit on one's ability to connect to both sexes, and one who has these sort of connections will obviously have an easier time adjusting. Of course the connection with some elements of that person, regardless of gender, will always stay there so it depends on how much you can compensate one with the other.

For the original question, gender is part of the person on the "inside" and outside. When that friend of your mother changed her sex, she also acknowledged/brought to the fore part of herself that was not so obvious for her lesbian partner. In some ways, she is a different person. So it doesn't strike me as strange.

new-york
Apr 7th, 2011, 10:59 PM
Gender is the basis.

I can't imagine doing anything with a woman :scared:.

If my man was to move the balls up i'd prolly give it a shot and give up quickly.

Darop.
Apr 7th, 2011, 11:23 PM
I don't think changing sex is like changing hair color, meaning that I think a person's sex is a determinant part of who they are. I think if my partner were to change sex, he'd be pretty much changing most of what he is and most of what I fell in love with.

Anyways, no doubt sexuality plays a big role in who we fall/stay in love with, otherwise we'd all be perfect bisexuals.

moby
Apr 8th, 2011, 12:49 AM
I don't think changing sex is like changing hair color, meaning that I think a person's sex is a determinant part of who they are. I think if my partner were to change sex, he'd be pretty much changing most of what he is and most of what I fell in love with.

Anyways, no doubt sexuality plays a big role in who we fall/stay in love with, otherwise we'd all be perfect bisexuals.I think you mean pansexuals instead of bisexuals.

It will be interesting to hear responses from bisexuals actually.

Darop.
Apr 8th, 2011, 01:34 PM
I think you mean pansexuals instead of bisexuals.

It will be interesting to hear responses from bisexuals actually.

*googles it*

Yeah, that.

Sean.
Apr 8th, 2011, 02:52 PM
There always has to be a level of physical attraction.

You fall in love with a person but you are sexually attracted to a particular gender. For a relationship you need both, love and attraction. If my partner had a sex change operation, I wouldn't be attracted to him and so I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with him, doesn't mean I still wont love him.

Well wether ppl want to admit or not, Sexual (physical) attraction is a big part of love, or falling in love with someone.

So a certain level of physical attraction is required? I guess I would agree with that. Would it be different though if it wasn't a sex change operation that had changed the appearance of your partner?

I'm kind of changing the direction of the thread here but, if something happened to your partner that significantly deteriorated their appearance to the extent you no longer considered them attractive (car crash, fire, etc.). Would that mean you would find a relationship with them hard?

I'm guessing a lot of people will want to answer that it wouldn't change anything, because that's what they hope would happen.

Kworb
Apr 8th, 2011, 03:05 PM
So a certain level of physical attraction is required? I guess I would agree with that. Would it be different though if it wasn't a sex change operation that had changed the appearance of your partner?

I'm kind of changing the direction of the thread here but, if something happened to your partner that significantly deteriorated their appearance to the extent you no longer considered them attractive (car crash, fire, etc.). Would that mean you would find a relationship with them hard?

I'm guessing a lot of people will want to answer that it wouldn't change anything, because that's what they hope would happen.
Of course that would be really difficult. But I think an accident like that, if you really love the person, then it's something that happened to both of you and you both try to get through it together. You stay out of loyalty, perhaps even guilt. But no doubt the relationship would never be the same.

A sex change is different because the person is making a decision to change. So that feeling that you "owe" it to them to stay in the relationship wouldn't be there.

moby
Apr 8th, 2011, 03:06 PM
^To be honest, yes, I'd find that very hard. I'd feel morally obliged to stay with the person, and it will be a test of my character.

But as someone said, gender identity is sort of important. For instance, it will be hard to date a superhot pre-op MTF transsexual because I know that he identifies as a female. So it's not just completely about the physical aspect of the transformation.

miffedmax
Apr 8th, 2011, 03:23 PM
That whole "sex isn't important" thing is a of :bs:. Sex is, at some point, a major, if not the major component of romantic love--I mean hey, I love my cat, but seriously...

Having sex with the same partner affects even our brain chemistry and all sorts of emotional connections. I mean obviously this effect can and does wear off, but it is still some pretty heavy duty stuff.

So, no, it's not likely you're going to have a long-term relationship with somebody you're not sexually attracted to.

People who have gone through accidents are often driven by a sense of obligation, but also by things like memory and nonromantic love (you can feel both toward the same person). Also, a lot of them do end up getting divorced or with the healthy partner cheating.

debby
Apr 8th, 2011, 08:12 PM
So why after some years in a marriage, when the guy is getting fatter and fatter, the girl still loves him?

Crazy Canuck
Apr 8th, 2011, 08:14 PM
I simply don't believe that anybody who has hit puberty would think that this was a real dilemma that needs discussing.

Kart
Apr 9th, 2011, 12:43 PM
I disagree with the majority here.

There is more to a relationship than physical intimacy and there are plenty of people that stay with partners long after the physical side of things has dried up. Look to the many successful arranged marriages in Asian countries that probably don't all even start out necessarily as a walk in the park.

Attraction is not all about physical matters and, in reality, you can derive physical pleasure in a lot of ways beside the standard formula.

That said, in the example quoted in this thread, I would say that Wigglytuff summed it up nicely - albeit with some strange analogies.

young_gunner913
Apr 9th, 2011, 02:59 PM
I disagree with the majority here.

There is more to a relationship than physical intimacy and there are plenty of people that stay with partners long after the physical side of things has dried up. Look to the many successful arranged marriages in Asian countries that probably don't all even start out necessarily as a walk in the park.

Attraction is not all about physical matters and, in reality, you can derive physical pleasure in a lot of ways beside the standard formula.

That said, in the example quoted in this thread, I would say that Wigglytuff summed it up nicely - albeit with some strange analogies.

That's true, but at some point, the couple was having sex. If you're gay and your partner now has a vagina, that's a pretty BIG deal. The choice to have a sex change is fine, but it's awfully selfish to expect the person you're with to continue to be with you if you're not what they're attracted to. Of course in a relationship, you're attracted to the person, but it starts off being attracted to the gender.

Apoleb
Apr 9th, 2011, 03:22 PM
I disagree with the majority here.

There is more to a relationship than physical intimacy and there are plenty of people that stay with partners long after the physical side of things has dried up. Look to the many successful arranged marriages in Asian countries that probably don't all even start out necessarily as a walk in the park.

Attraction is not all about physical matters and, in reality, you can derive physical pleasure in a lot of ways beside the standard formula.

That said, in the example quoted in this thread, I would say that Wigglytuff summed it up nicely - albeit with some strange analogies.

Gender isn't just about the "physical side" of things which is also why the analogy to someone having an accident and getting disfigured is off.

Like miffedmax said, one cannot separate sex from romantic love. And by sex I mean here general sexual attraction which is also not limited to getting attracted to someone's muscles or penis or something.

but, if something happened to your partner that significantly deteriorated their appearance to the extent you no longer considered them attractive (car crash, fire, etc.). Would that mean you would find a relationship with them hard?Hard yes, but certainly not impossible, and I don't think the analogy to someone changing his gender identification/sexual character is quite right. That disfigured person is still a man/woman in his/her behavior, identification (i.e mentally at the very least). And I think that factor is generally more important in how we chose partners than external physical attributes.

Sean.
Apr 9th, 2011, 07:38 PM
I simply don't believe that anybody who has hit puberty would think that this was a real dilemma that needs discussing.

Nobody forced you to contribute. Besides, your appear to be in the minority here.

Dominic
Apr 9th, 2011, 07:49 PM
Nobody forced you to contribute. Besides, your appear to be in the minority here.

:lol: that's crazy canuck for you.

Barrie_Dude
Apr 9th, 2011, 08:10 PM
I am attracted physically (sexually) to women (the gender) however, I choose to be friends with individuals that I like and, in that sense, I am attracted to the person. I would have a great deal of diffuculty if I were in a serious relationship with a woman (married to or living together) and she cose to have a sex change. It would change the nature of our relationship. Yes, most of thes reasons why I love that person would still be there, but i cannot see myself being married to or sleeping with a man. We could still have a relationship of sorts, a friendship. We may even share a place.

Crazy Canuck
Apr 9th, 2011, 08:31 PM
Nobody forced you to contribute. Besides, your appear to be in the minority here.
Nobody forced anybody to contribute; Honestly, what a stupid way to disagree with somebody. Yes, I'm probably in the minority - I went through puberty half a lifetime ago.

Kart
Apr 10th, 2011, 12:28 AM
That's true, but at some point, the couple was having sex. If you're gay and your partner now has a vagina, that's a pretty BIG deal. The choice to have a sex change is fine, but it's awfully selfish to expect the person you're with to continue to be with you if you're not what they're attracted to. Of course in a relationship, you're attracted to the person, but it starts off being attracted to the gender.
I don't disagree with what you've written.

I'm not saying the couple above should stay together but I am saying that conventional intercourse is not an issue for everybody. I reiterate that plenty of people out there are in loving relationships that aren't playing with each others genitals. Indeed there are people out there that are in open relationships that sleep with other people but not their partner.

There are options but it depends on how palatable you consider them and if you're still attracted to your partner. My point remains that attraction is not all about intercourse.
Gender isn't just about the "physical side" of things which is also why the analogy to someone having an accident and getting disfigured is off.
Agreed but the dynamic of their relationship is not divulged here. One doesn't suddenly become a man one day - the traits, behaviour and attitude must have been there for some time and the partner willing to accept them.
Like miffedmax said, one cannot separate sex from romantic love. And by sex I mean here general sexual attraction which is also not limited to getting attracted to someone's muscles or penis or something.
I agree. However I may disagree with what miffedmax wrote only because I do not consider intercourse a prerequisite for a lasting relationship. Of course it really depends on what one means by the term 'sex.' Which is discussion topic for another time.

Sean.
Apr 10th, 2011, 12:31 AM
Nobody forced anybody to contribute; Honestly, what a stupid way to disagree with somebody. Yes, I'm probably in the minority - I went through puberty half a lifetime ago.

I meant in that you seem to be the only one who finds it a ridiculous discussion.

tennis-insomniac
Apr 10th, 2011, 09:06 AM
dJ2DNJ_r18U

Crazy Canuck
Apr 10th, 2011, 10:07 AM
I meant in that you seem to be the only one who finds it a ridiculous discussion.
I'm not, I'm just the only one that was blunt enough to put it in such an assy manner.

Dominic
Apr 10th, 2011, 04:31 PM
I'm not, I'm just the only one that was blunt enough to put it in such an assy manner.

Wow and you're proud of that :tape:

young_gunner913
Apr 10th, 2011, 04:38 PM
I don't disagree with what you've written.

I'm not saying the couple above should stay together but I am saying that conventional intercourse is not an issue for everybody. I reiterate that plenty of people out there are in loving relationships that aren't playing with each others genitals. Indeed there are people out there that are in open relationships that sleep with other people but not their partner.

There are options but it depends on how palatable you consider them and if you're still attracted to your partner. My point remains that attraction is not all about intercourse.

You're right, it's not all about intercourse but sex is involved in relationships. That's true there are people in loving relationships that don't have sex and that's called friendship. I mean that's basically how numerous gay guys and their best female friends are, right? Do almost everything a girl would do with her bf, minus sex.

Kart
Apr 10th, 2011, 09:06 PM
You're right, it's not all about intercourse but sex is involved in relationships. That's true there are people in loving relationships that don't have sex and that's called friendship. I mean that's basically how numerous gay guys and their best female friends are, right? Do almost everything a girl would do with her bf, minus sex.

Would you say that married couples that don't have intercourse anymore are in a friendship ? :p

The more I think about it, the more I think that it comes down to what people define as 'sex' and what people define as 'intercourse.'

I would argue that what distinguishes a relationship from a friendship is intimacy, not the presence or absence of intercourse.

Apoleb
Apr 10th, 2011, 09:19 PM
Would you say that married couples that don't have intercourse anymore are in a friendship ? :p

The more I think about it, the more I think that it comes down to what people define as 'sex' and what people define as 'intercourse.'

I would argue that what distinguishes a relationship from a friendship is intimacy, not the presence or absence of intercourse.

I think there has to be some form of sexual arousal but not necessarily full blown intercourse. It's hard of course to always measure what that arousal is, but with a lack of any such arousal it's hard to qualify any relationship as "romantic", and it'd be more apt to call it friendship.

If we want to look at scientifically, the major (only?) reason we have that faculty to take partners is to reproduce.

Kart
Apr 10th, 2011, 09:53 PM
I think there has to be some form of sexual arousal but not necessarily full blown intercourse.

Yes I agree with this.

Attraction is what leads to intimacy which is what is needed to have a relationship, not full on intercourse.

égalité
Apr 10th, 2011, 10:22 PM
Seeing as non-tennis has become a hot bed of sexuality related discussion recently I wanted to get the views of the forum on a real life situation that I find strange. I've changed their real names.

Megan, one of my mother's friends, is a lesbian in a happy civil partnership. However, she has taken the decision to have a sex change operation and live as a straight man. Thus far I see nothing strange.

What I do see as odd is that she has told my mother that because she is having this sex change that she will have to split from her partner, Katie, because Katie is a lesbian, and thus attracted to women - meaning that once she is a man her partner will no longer be attracted to her.

I can see the argument here, but don't really think it is logical. Even after Megan is a man, inside she will still be the person she was before - the person Katie fell in love with, a sex change will not change that. My understanding was that you were attracted to the person not to their gender, and so I don't see why Megan and Katie would have to split despite still both loving each other.

Am I alone in this opinion or have I misunderstood something? I'm interested to know your thoughts. If your partner had a sex change would you have to end the relationship because they are no longer a man/woman, regardless of the fact you still love them?

After Megan gets the sex change, Katie probably doesn't view Megan as the same person she fell in love with. If I were in her place, I don't know if I would, either. And for me, if it were a choice between trying to make the relationship work and letting Megan go so that she can finally live her life as physically male, I think the more loving choice is the latter. If Katie identifies as lesbian, the relationship is almost certainly not going to work. I'm sure Katie still loves Megan very much, but there's more to a relationship than that. As one of my favorite song lyrics goes, "just because it's real don't mean it's gonna work."

Ziggy Starduck
Apr 11th, 2011, 04:15 AM
I wouldn't be able to stay but I wouldn't be able to leave either :sobbing:

Leelee.
Jun 28th, 2011, 05:04 AM
OMG I'm so pansexual