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View Full Version : When did hitting an overhead go out of style?


brickhousesupporter
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:38 PM
Watching the SEOpen final today, I was surprised how many times Maria and Vika decided to hit a swinging volley instead of hitting an overhead. Time after time the swinging volley was ineffective and allowed the opponent back into the point. It seems that this is becoming common place in women's tennis. I personally prefer the overhead as it lessens the chance of your opponent getting back into the point. Am I the only one noticing this?

BlameSerena
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:40 PM
Maria doesn't hit too many overheads anyway. Perhaps the wind limited Vika in this regard. Personally, I love overheads too so I hope this isn't a trend.

n1_and_uh_noone
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:40 PM
I have a hard time hitting an effective swinging volley too, and an overhead really opens up many more possibilities in height, spin and placement which a swinging volley doesn't. But I guess the girls feel more secure hitting a groundstroke than a serve, hence...

Monica_Rules
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:41 PM
Since the womens serve became a joke. Both the serve and overhead are linked

darrinbaker00
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:43 PM
Since the womens serve became a joke. Both the serve and overhead are linked

There you go. Same motion, same mechanics. It makes no sense to me that players at that level cannot execute basic shots like that.

young_gunner913
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:45 PM
I have a hard time hitting an effective swinging volley too, and an overhead really opens up many more possibilities in height, spin and placement which a swinging volley doesn't. But I guess the girls feel more secure hitting a groundstroke than a serve, hence...

This. But it's sad that most girls feel better about a swinging volley and usually wind up losing the point.

JJ all the way
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:48 PM
Since the womens serve became a joke. Both the serve and overhead are linked

Not at all actually - with a service, you are limited to a space , but with an overhead you really have no limitation. I think its just a preference that some women have. You still see many top players using the overhead like Serena, Jelena, Ivanovic, Venus, Stosur, Radwanska, Schiviaone, Kuznetsova, etc.

darrinbaker00
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:49 PM
I have a hard time hitting an effective swinging volley too, and an overhead really opens up many more possibilities in height, spin and placement which a swinging volley doesn't. But I guess the girls feel more secure hitting a groundstroke than a serve, hence...

Why is that, though? Since the serve is the only shot you have complete control over, I think it should not be your least effective shot, regardless of gender.

simonsaystennis
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:50 PM
Well I remember in a few matches hearing the commentators say that Maria hits more swing volleys than overheads now because of her shoulder issues. I actually like watching the swing volley... it's a cool shot.

JJ all the way
Apr 2nd, 2011, 07:51 PM
Well I remember in a few matches hearing the commentators say that Maria hits more swing volleys than overheads now because of her shoulder issues. I actually like watching the swing volley... it's a cool shot.

:hearts: I like it too

Direwolf
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:02 PM
I think Venus... She made the swinging volley such an incredible shot... She would rather hit a swing volley than overheads...

Sp!ffy
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:07 PM
Maria's swinging volley used to be as effective as an overhead...look at AO 08. But now she gets too tentative and hits to the middle of the court....

Keegan
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:10 PM
Maybe it was to do with the sun or something. I've seen Vika hit a fair few overheads. I thought it was weird when she hit the swinging volley.

Irute
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:12 PM
I was also surprised today seeing the swinging volleys. It really looked like overhead would be more effective (which is not always the case). On the other hand I think it is just this match. I saw it used often by Schiavone in last match against Radwanska.
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I couldn't help put this here ;)
Anyway I agree with earlier statement that a lot of top players use it and this match seems to be more of an exception.

Beny
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:15 PM
After Mauresmo and Henin retired..

Alejandrawrrr
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:20 PM
Yet another reason why we need Serena back.

GoofyDuck
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:22 PM
Since people are incapable of hitting a proper one.
Also they people in the final both serve like crap so not faith in their overheads anyway.

miffedmax
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:31 PM
I see it a lot at the younger levels when I'm officiating. Both boys and girls wait and let the ball drop. Very mysterious.

Petkorazzi
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:32 PM
I think it depends. :shrug: I think it's linked with the serve... some players can't get that much acceleration and control from the overhead. I'm a tall guy and I can't hit proper overheads, but I hit ultrafast swinging volleys. It just depends on the player. :shrug:

Alejandrawrrr
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:48 PM
I see it a lot at the younger levels when I'm officiating. Both boys and girls wait and let the ball drop. Very mysterious.

Well I'm far from a pro, but I tend to hit the swinging volley because it's safer and if I hit it hard enough it SHOULD end the point. Last time I tried an overhead my racket didn't connect with the ball and I could see even my mom laughing at me :bigcry: Don't know if that happened to the WTA players, but it's possible :lol:

Stamp Paid
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:50 PM
Yeah. They both have shitty terrible serves so :lol:

edificio
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:50 PM
There was a lot of wind and sun in this match, and MS had problems keeping the ball in play anyway, so...the swinging volley. I don't think the overhead has gone out of style, though.

wally1
Apr 2nd, 2011, 09:58 PM
It's definitely becoming more common in the women's game, I've seen a number of young players who don't seem seem to be capable of hitting an overhead - I don't remember this at all in the past.

What the reason is I don't know. Probably because players these days practice little other then ground strokes, and coming to the net and winning points there is just not part of their game plan.

GoofyDuck
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:04 PM
I personally love hitting overheads, it just feels so relieving.
Even do it from the back of the court. :lol:

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:08 PM
Swinging volley is such a dumb shot. Women's tennis has become such a technical shitshow

debopero
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:08 PM
After Mauresmo and Henin retired..

Serena hits more overheads than swinging volleys :shrug:

Potato
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:20 PM
Why is that, though? Since the serve is the only shot you have complete control over, I think it should not be your least effective shot, regardless of gender.

Too bad this is not the case with the WTA since the serve requires a lot of mental strength and we are filled with a bunch of headcases :shrug:

Most of the girls that go for swinging volleys solely are your ballbashers since they are most comfortable with their groundstrokes. Maria does not have a very good overhead, so that's why she ALWAYS goes for the swinger.

T_P
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:29 PM
Aah, that makes me think of Justine's overhead from the back of the court. Such an awesome shot :inlove:

Juju Nostalgique
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:32 PM
Women's tennis has turned into a mess of players without "touch", so what did you expect? :shrug:

Apoleb
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:35 PM
Aah, that makes me think of Justine's overhead from the back of the court. Such an awesome shot :inlove:

Like the one she hit against Venus from the back of the court in the first set of their 07 USO.

I think I'll always keep referencing that match. :awww

Maza1987
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:38 PM
since most women on tour realised they were shit at them.

the correct thing to do. play to your strengths.

Lapaco
Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:56 PM
maria was never able to hit overheads.

Spring Pools
Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:04 PM
When Dementieva stopped doing them

Bingain
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:06 AM
Well I'm far from a pro, but I tend to hit the swinging volley because it's safer and if I hit it hard enough it SHOULD end the point. Last time I tried an overhead my racket didn't connect with the ball and I could see even my mom laughing at me Don't know if that happened to the WTA players, but it's possible

I guess racquet technology and play style also contribute. Way back when hitting winners off the baseline was quite a feat, players were trained the full package and they had to grasp moments and go forward to finish the points. Nowadays with advanced racquets most kids were taught to play from the baseline and baseline alone. The pros may hit 10 overheads and 1000 groundies a day during practices. They don't get enough training in the odd skills and they don't have the "musta-do-it" mentality--why need it if I can do a swing which is my specialty and my feet move fast enough or the lobs suck, or even wait till it bounces and my killer CC will win it anyway? There are alternatives.

LightWarrior
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:11 AM
A lot of other top players are very comfortable with overheads : Woz, Schiavone, Janko, Radwanska...

The Dawntreader
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:17 AM
Since when? Serena, Venus, Jankovic, Petrova are all textbook smashers.

Break My Rapture
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:54 AM
Maria does it out of fear for her shoulder (too much stress on the rotator cuff when lifting the arm like in the serve I guess) and Vika has shanked some smashes in the past so that's probably why, though she has stopped doing that lately.

Miss Amor
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:54 AM
After this incident, everyone was more fearful of embarrassing themselves -

jX4hYmyC-VU

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:35 AM
After Mauresmo and Henin retired..

what happened??? I'm quite sure serena hits overheads :confused:

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:36 AM
Maria does it out of fear for her shoulder (too much stress on the rotator cuff when lifting the arm like in the serve I guess) and Vika has shanked some smashes in the past so that's probably why, though she has stopped doing that lately.

but if she fears her shoulder hitting that overhead, why doesn't she stop that ridiculous fh loopy thing which puts a whole lot of pressure on the shoulder...

Smitten
Apr 3rd, 2011, 04:02 AM
The Hingis Overhead was a great shot.

The Witch-king
Apr 3rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
So this thread is all about posting how your fave can do it huh?

Since when? Serena, Venus, Jankovic, Petrova are all textbook smashers.

:lol:

Lapaco
Apr 3rd, 2011, 11:54 AM
Maria does it out of fear for her shoulder (too much stress on the rotator cuff when lifting the arm like in the serve I guess) and Vika has shanked some smashes in the past so that's probably why, though she has stopped doing that lately.

she wasn't hitting overheads even before her shoulder injury and subsequent surgery

Serenus Christ
Apr 3rd, 2011, 11:57 AM
more control
better angles
more time to see if the opponent has moved (when you go for an overhead you see them then look up you don't see what their court position is)

Kəv.
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:01 PM
After this incident, everyone was more fearful of embarrassing themselves -

jX4hYmyC-VU

Also
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Shinjiro
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:14 PM
love it whenever Henin had to hit one from the baseline, it was fun to watch.

DragonFlame
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:23 PM
Players can't serve these days so they can't hit overheads either. xD

DragonFlame
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:28 PM
love it whenever Henin had to hit one from the baseline, it was fun to watch.

So true :sobbing:

Hashim.
Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:45 PM
So this thread is all about posting how your fave can do it huh?



:lol:

No seriously JJ really does hit good over heads.

GSMPrzysiezny
Apr 3rd, 2011, 01:11 PM
Paradoxically, it's harder for a tall girl to hit a smash. She has a higher centre of gravity, her hand-to-eye coordination will be usually worse than her shorter friend's, and when your a big girl your body isn't that flexible even if you are a pro sportswoman. And smash is a shot easy only on paper. so many elements come into play, so many times girls taller than average (Safina, Ivanovic, Sharapova) showed us especially during the serve motion that ball over their head is not exatcly the position of a ball they like.

Of course, majority of young girls are not taught nowadays how to behave properly between the net and the service line, but still, one of the reasons behind deteriorating number of smashes on the WTA Tour is that young pros are getting taller and taller, but their athleticism and flexibility of their bodies are sort of evolutionary lagging behind their much improved height.

brickhousesupporter
Apr 3rd, 2011, 02:33 PM
Paradoxically, it's harder for a tall girl to hit a smash. She has a higher centre of gravity, her hand-to-eye coordination will be usually worse than her shorter friend's, and when your a big girl your body isn't that flexible even if you are a pro sportswoman. And smash is a shot easy only on paper. so many elements come into play, so many times girls taller than average (Safina, Ivanovic, Sharapova) showed us especially during the serve motion that ball over their head is not exatcly the position of a ball they like.

Of course, majority of young girls are not taught nowadays how to behave properly between the net and the service line, but still, one of the reasons behind deteriorating number of smashes on the WTA Tour is that young pros are getting taller and taller, but their athleticism and flexibility of their bodies are sort of evolutionary lagging behind their much improved height.
Interesting perspective you bring to the discussion, however, it does not explain why tall players like Venus, Lindsay, and Pam Shriver were all able to hit good overheads. I don't think anyone would describe Pam and Lindsay as great athletes.

goat
Apr 3rd, 2011, 02:45 PM
Swinging volleys are very popular in the mens and I think womens tennis is moving to a more elementary style (kick serve, topspin, net play + more) The swinging volley (sometimes approach) can be beneficial in so many ways. It allows the player to take the ball quicker giving the oponent less time, the choice of shot is less obvious and more versatile which results in greater work being put on the ball. The smash is stilla a relevant shot but I don't think every player is going to hit them on every shot. The game is evolving and is no more about power than shot choice. It is exciting!

Break My Rapture
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM
but if she fears her shoulder hitting that overhead, why doesn't she stop that ridiculous fh loopy thing which puts a whole lot of pressure on the shoulder...
She already does that a lot less IMO, but she seems to be picking it up again for some reason.
she wasn't hitting overheads even before her shoulder injury and subsequent surgery
She did at times but yes not much. She had a pectoral strain during the end of 2005 and the start of 2006 so that's probably also a cause.

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:47 PM
Since the womens serve became a joke. Both the serve and overhead are linked

Interesting point..and it's indeed shocking how few players on the wta tour actually have at least a decent serve.

AcesHigh
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:48 PM
I love how injuries are blamed for every single problem Maria ever has

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:50 PM
Paradoxically, it's harder for a tall girl to hit a smash. She has a higher centre of gravity, her hand-to-eye coordination will be usually worse than her shorter friend's, and when your a big girl your body isn't that flexible even if you are a pro sportswoman. And smash is a shot easy only on paper. so many elements come into play, so many times girls taller than average (Safina, Ivanovic, Sharapova) showed us especially during the serve motion that ball over their head is not exatcly the position of a ball they like.

Of course, majority of young girls are not taught nowadays how to behave properly between the net and the service line, but still, one of the reasons behind deteriorating number of smashes on the WTA Tour is that young pros are getting taller and taller, but their athleticism and flexibility of their bodies are sort of evolutionary lagging behind their much improved height.

Then it's a lack of athletic ability for the younger generation. As has been pointed out by another poster, the likes of Pam Shriver and Lindsay Davenport all had great overheads.

Break My Rapture
Apr 3rd, 2011, 03:55 PM
I love how injuries are blamed for every single problem Maria ever has
You can't deny the fact that the problems as severe as Maria has had with her shoulder affect her serve and her smash (like someone else said, they are linked).

AcesHigh
Apr 3rd, 2011, 04:03 PM
You can't deny the fact that the problems as severe as Maria has had with her shoulder affect her serve and her smash (like someone else said, they are linked).

An overhead smash is a much simpler motion than the serve. Actually, it can be simplified to the point that it shouldnt really have any effect on shoulder problems.

I think the injury is just a cop-out for fans.

Break My Rapture
Apr 3rd, 2011, 04:27 PM
An overhead smash is a much simpler motion than the serve. Actually, it can be simplified to the point that it shouldnt really have any effect on shoulder problems.

I think the injury is just a cop-out for fans.
Not if the serve is abbreviated, it's almost practically the same then. The basics of both shots are much alike.

Sp!ffy
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:27 PM
I think the injury is just a cop-out for fans.

Yes. And her surgery was fake too. So were the 9 months that she took off. And the fact that her results magically slumped is a coincidence also. :rolleyes:

Cant wait for the excuses that you Woztards come up with when 9 years pass and she is still world number one without any slams. :happy:

AcesHigh
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:32 PM
Not if the serve is abbreviated, it's almost practically the same then. The basics of both shots are much alike.

No, it's not practically the same. The motion of both shots are very similar, that is true. However, the serve requires a lot more. A smash is just that... a smash. One, you're already at the net so it requires much less of you.. similarly, there are so many options available to you.

I really don't understand it. An overhead smash is technically more difficult than a regular groundstroke, but it really is so simple. It's not something you have to pound.. all you really have to do is get an angle or put it away from your opponent.

The Witch-king
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:35 PM
Also
EQrZY0WafWw

While we're at it

OyAIPuet2zU

young_gunner913
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:42 PM
While we're at it

Jokevetadze :worship:

jX4hYmyC-VU

pov
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:49 PM
Since the womens serve became a joke. Both the serve and overhead are linked
A good and an interesting point. What is going on with this? Some have made the silly claim that because women are shorter than men they'll serve more DFs. Obviously that's nonsensical so what could be driving the increase in poor serving over the past 2 - 3 years? It's almost as if they subconsciously think it's okay.

The Dawntreader
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:52 PM
I really don't understand it. An overhead smash is technically more difficult than a regular groundstroke, but it really is so simple. It's not something you have to pound.. all you really have to do is get an angle or put it away from your opponent.

A smash is a perilous shot to hit IMO. The fundamental mechanics seem pretty perfunctory in terms of just hitting the ball into the space, but you have to be conscious of your positioning, your contact point etc. It's no wonder the most epic Youtube gaffs involve smashes. Very hard to hit.

In today's tennis climate too, you have to be a great deal more athletic, which doesn't make the smash any easier. A reason why Navratilova, Graf, Serena, Venus, Henin, Mauresmo were/are such great exponents of it.

Miss Amor
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:53 PM
Jokevetadze :worship:


Bitch, I already posted that on page 3 :rolleye:

bandabou
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:57 PM
A smash is a perilous shot to hit IMO. The fundamental mechanics seem pretty perfunctory in terms of just hitting the ball into the space, but you have to be conscious of your positioning, your contact point etc. It's no wonder the most epic Youtube gaffs involve smashes. Very hard to hit.

In today's tennis climate too, you have to be a great deal more athletic, which doesn't make the smash any easier. A reason why Navratilova, Graf, Serena, Venus, Henin, Mauresmo were/are such great exponents of it.

Interesting...and there you name top 4 and top 10 serves of all-time.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 3rd, 2011, 05:58 PM
You can't deny the fact that the problems as severe as Maria has had with her shoulder affect her serve and her smash (like someone else said, they are linked).

maria hardly every used to do smashes...she more often than not used to hit swinging volleys...so i don't think her shoulder has anything to do with it :confused:

Break My Rapture
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:01 PM
maria hardly every used to do smashes...she more often than not used to hit swinging volleys...so i don't think her shoulder has anything to do with it :confused:
She did it seldomly before the surgery, but yes now it's basically extinct in her game. She hit two of them in her IW QF a couple of weeks ago and that was probably the first time in years when I saw her hit a smash.

The Dawntreader
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:08 PM
Interesting...and there you name top 4 and top 10 serves of all-time.

It's not always a reflection of serving ability. I mean ironically, Dementieva had a very sturdy and dare i say RELIABLE smash. Even Jankovic before the '09 tweaking of her serve had a great smash, and could take high lobs out of the air with great aptitude.

Being a great server does aid a great smash, but they don't always go hand in hand.

Potato
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:37 PM
So this thread is all about posting how your fave can do it huh?



:lol:

Lol, if you actually watch JJ play, you would realize she has a very solid and reliable overhead. She rarely misses it and almost always puts it away on the first strike. Many commentators have noted the consistency and fluid motion of her overhead. She also is able to hit overhead winners from the baseline. :shrug:

Lapaco
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:42 PM
She already does that a lot less IMO, but she seems to be picking it up again for some reason.

She did at times but yes not much. She had a pectoral strain during the end of 2005 and the start of 2006 so that's probably also a cause.

pretty much never. she never had the confidence to hit them

The Dawntreader
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:44 PM
Lol, if you actually watch JJ play, you would realize she has a very solid and reliable overhead. She rarely misses it and almost always puts it away on the first strike. Many commentators have noted the consistency and fluid motion of her overhead. She also is able to hit overhead winners from the baseline. :shrug:

11Bc8FbPEfU

0:45

Potato
Apr 3rd, 2011, 06:47 PM
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1:40 :shrug: