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fantic
Mar 3rd, 2011, 06:55 AM
this I found from the official website;

'Camcorders and cameras are prohibited for any purpose other than the recording of footage or photographs for personal and private domestic use only. They are permitted as long as there is no flash photography and the equipment is not a hindrance to surrounding spectators. Film may not be reproduced. Such footage or photographs cannot be exploited or displayed in any manner or in any medium whatsoever without the express written consent of the ATP World Tour or WTA Tour.

so basically, recording is allowed but NOT allowed to post on public forums or youtube?

FORZA SARITA
Mar 3rd, 2011, 08:49 AM
seems so :weirdo:

Kipling
Mar 3rd, 2011, 04:42 PM
Is that a literal quote?

Typically, the wording refers to commercial video or home "video" cameras, leaving a technical loophole for point and shoot or DSLR cameras which are capable of recording video.

There are a couple of other issues I see with such a broad policy such as this, however. First, obviously, is the issue of policing. How in the world is the ATP, WTA and Youtube/Dailymotion and whoever else going to monitor and pull down every single video of every single practice and match shot at Indian Wells? Answer--they can't. This is because they cannot possibly detect all of them. All a user has to do is upload them as "unlisted" videos and they are not searchable. Or omit keywords. In the second case, the videos would be public and there is always a risk of getting caught. In the first case, however, all the user has to do is pass the links around via PM or email and they remain hidden from video by the policing "authorities" as long as no one tattles. So some videos will escape their clutches.

The second problem is a more fundamentally troubling one. No one is going to the WTA matches as is. Few are interested. And now they want to kill off videos that would assist in publicizing their assets (i.e., the players) and help generate interest in the sport and help bring people out to future events? It does not make sense from a financial perspective. The matches have already been played, so it isn't as though we are giving access to livestream or anything. They are little clips of fan footage. It's insanely silly that the AtP or WTA would have an issue with it. Beyond ludicrous.

Kipling
Mar 3rd, 2011, 04:56 PM
Hmmmm, on re-reading that, the issue doesn't seem to be with IW. They seem to be merely covering their ass, so to speak. read the last line--"express written consent of..." blah blah blah. My hunch is that the WTA doesn't give two ___s about where fan photos and videos end up, as long as you're not wholesaling commercial match footage on Youtube. How do I know this? WTA is my friend on Youtube, and I have 168 videos from Miami, Ponte Vedra and Amelia Island on my Youtube account. I would say that, if the WTA tour had a problem with what I was doing, I would have heard about long before now....

I think you're safe shooting whatever video you want there at IW, bud. :)

But if it makes you feel any better, scour the WTA site and see if you find anything at all that would prohibit you from posting a video to Youtube. I don't think you'll find anything, but have at it.

andrewbroad
Mar 3rd, 2011, 10:16 PM
As far as photographs go, it's up to individual tournaments to allow or prohibit taking photos, but the copyright of the photos rests with the photographer (or the company hiring the photographer). I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe that the concept of copyright in the subject of a photograph applies to tennis tournaments, because neither the players nor the grounds constitute artistic works. If, however, you plan to exploit your photos commercially, then you have to get permission from every recognisable person in them.

Videos are an entirely different matter, as it would violate TV companies' broadcasting rights to make or distribute them.

fantic
Mar 3rd, 2011, 11:13 PM
Hmm, thx for your inputs, guys :yeah:

I'll just upload the photos then :lol:

Kipling
Mar 4th, 2011, 09:52 AM
As far as photographs go, it's up to individual tournaments to allow or prohibit taking photos, but the copyright of the photos rests with the photographer (or the company hiring the photographer). I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe that the concept of copyright in the subject of a photograph applies to tennis tournaments, because neither the players nor the grounds constitute artistic works. If, however, you plan to exploit your photos commercially, then you have to get permission from every recognisable person in them.

Videos are an entirely different matter, as it would violate TV companies' broadcasting rights to make or distribute them.

Only if you plan on doing a live feed of matches from the tournament venue. As I explained above, what both Fantic and I are talking about doing--and hundreds of others on Youtube as well, for that matter--is capturing video clips of up to a few minutes in duration from the perspective of the stands and sharing it on Youtube after the matches have been completed. There is absolutely nothing in that which competes with any broadcast rights held by any network. I'd love to see a television network or tournament promoter sue over that and tell a judge, with a straight face, what their damages are. Try to make that argument.

They'd be thrown out of the courtroom and hit with a motion for sanctions.

fantic
Mar 4th, 2011, 01:34 PM
:hearts: :lol:

fantic
Mar 4th, 2011, 01:51 PM
well, I'm not exactly competing with them since they aren't even around when I record clips :haha: (for example there were 0 spectators at Falcon vs Turewicz match :lol: ah, an elderly couple saw one or two games and left :haha: ) I do wish I had a camcorder :sad: Have to delete UE scenes so it's practically an highlight, that's all I can do with a 2 GB memory :sobbing:

King Halep
Mar 6th, 2011, 12:20 PM
Australian Open made a claim against a video I put on youtube. It was not even from a match they bothered to have cameras at. Its free publicity for their stupid event. Its like music companies banning uploading of 20 year old videos. They are just giving themselves a bad name. I want to write an email to their propaganda dept and tell how frikking pathetic and petty they are, but I cant be bothered.

Kipling
Mar 6th, 2011, 12:51 PM
Unless you were using some sort of commercial video equipment, and recording an entire match, that's very shortsighted of them, to be sure. Without fans buying tickets and showing up to watch matches, there's nothing. Burning bridges isn't going to win them any favors.

fantic
Mar 6th, 2011, 02:12 PM
Australian Open made a claim against a video I put on youtube. It was not even from a match they bothered to have cameras at. Its free publicity for their stupid event. Its like music companies banning uploading of 20 year old videos. They are just giving themselves a bad name. I want to write an email to their propaganda dept and tell how frikking pathetic and petty they are, but I cant be bothered.

:eek: good thing I deleted a link to my you tube acct here..well I need to upload it since my netbook memory isn't that large, and what if I lose the computer again? :o (my countless clips of Stanford and SD WTA last year :bigcry: didn't upload it anywhere..)
But will follow Ara... :lol: 's advice and switch it to unlisted..or to follow IW's official policy, private :p

King Halep
Mar 6th, 2011, 03:31 PM
It should be ok as long as you dont put anything in the title or description which they can search for. I have a number of clips and after I took the tournament name out of them they should be ok. You should back the videos up on a portable drive, they dont cost much. If your going to make them private or whatever then noone will ever watch them.

fantic
Mar 6th, 2011, 03:38 PM
It should be ok as long as you dont put anything in the title or description which they can search for. I have a number of clips and after I took the tournament name out of them they should be ok. You should back the videos up on a portable drive, they dont cost much. If your going to make them private or whatever then noone will ever watch them.

I think that's what they want :lol: well like you I don't want any trouble, so..anyway thx for the advice :yeah: And yes I have a portable hard drive, but set it to Mac OS when I had a macbook and now that I use window netbook I have to reformat that drive, but I've already downloaded tons of classic basketball matches, don't want to lose them :help: (that thief who stole my macbook at McDonald should go to Hell for this :fiery: )

marlin blue
Mar 6th, 2011, 05:45 PM
So if they are going to be so tight lipped as to not letting anyone post video of the matches, are they at least planing on any kind of internet brodcast of the qualies? They are not charging for tickets so what are they afraid to loose?

Marlin

Kipling
Mar 6th, 2011, 08:15 PM
It's bizarre. No wonder the sport is suffocating.

I am going to proceed as I always do at Miami. If they toss me out, they toss me out. I've never had a problem with Youtube, though. Or wwith WTA. Or with Sony Ericsson. Or with any sanctioning body or promoter, or player, or agent, or anyone.

If you're not trying to make money off of these videos, , and not exploiting the subjects, it's extremely unlikely anyone would say anything. That AO example is rare, in my experience.

HowardH
Mar 7th, 2011, 09:49 AM
I agree with what Aravanecaravan is saying. The official line is shortsighted and is not helping the wta promote itself. Already people are not going to watch wta matches. Fan videos of players are so enjoyable and help to promote the sport. Fortunately, as Aravanecaravan says, it is relatively rare for the rules to be enforced so long as the videos are self-taken and camera is within regulations. Most of the videos which are taken down are recordings from official broadcasts. But sometimes other people are caught out, which is unfortunate.

I don't have much experience with taking cameras to events, but posters on here who do have experience indicate that the real life situation is more camera-friendly than the official line.

fantic
Mar 7th, 2011, 01:51 PM
I applaud Arava.....'s valour :lol:

Is practicing clips just before the actual match okay? I think I'll upload those, but not long ones since my camera memory is just 2GB :help:

King Halep
Mar 7th, 2011, 02:30 PM
I think you can get very cheap memory cards on ebay, my problem is always the battery not the memory

fantic
Mar 7th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I already bought each one of them ;) but still, 2GB one :sobbing:

adam_ads_n
Mar 7th, 2011, 04:58 PM
this I found from the official website;

'Camcorders and cameras are prohibited for any purpose other than the recording of footage or photographs for personal and private domestic use only. They are permitted as long as there is no flash photography and the equipment is not a hindrance to surrounding spectators. Film may not be reproduced. Such footage or photographs cannot be exploited or displayed in any manner or in any medium whatsoever without the express written consent of the ATP World Tour or WTA Tour.

so basically, recording is allowed but NOT allowed to post on public forums or youtube?
I think noone would do anything if you put such record in dailymotion ;) Sick policy - they should ask players if they agree to be photographed then - as far as I know your picture is yours and you can put it where you want :tape: