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View Full Version : Who dominated the tour better: Ivanovic or Wozniacki?


thegreendestiny
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:43 AM
Ivanovic led an Henin-less and Clijsters-less tour but screwed her ranking. :help:


Wozniacki led an Henin-less and Serena-less tour but keeps beating everyone else. :o

Discuss.

mariavikafan
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:45 AM
No Major = No Domination

AcesHigh
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:53 AM
No Major = No Domination

Retarded statement.

Anyway, Woz by far. Woz has gotten past 60 wins twice, has bested Ana's highest winning% for a year, and won 6 titles last year.. double the most titles Ana has in a year.

When you talk about domination, it has to be more than slams.. which are only 8 weeks of a 52week calendar.

Lapaco
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:56 AM
neither ever dominated :lol:

young_gunner913
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:57 AM
When did Ivanovic ever dominate the tour? :lol: 4 good results over 6 months is hardly domination, especially since after she became number 1 she fell to pieces and is having a hard time to be able to even show a fraction of the player she used to be.

backhandsmash
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:00 AM
For Woz to be called "dominating", she DOES need that slam (but that will come this year, I'm sure).

<Majmun>
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:00 AM
neither ever dominated :lol:

^this

mariavikafan
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Retarded statement.

Anyway, Woz by far. Woz has gotten past 60 wins twice, has bested Ana's highest winning% for a year, and won 6 titles last year.. double the most titles Ana has in a year.

When you talk about domination, it has to be more than slams.. which are only 8 weeks of a 52week calendar.

Absolutely not, when you talk about domination it has to be about Slams and yeah it's 8 weeks but it's also the most importants tournaments.
Woznacki isn't dominating anything, bring your very best at majors that's all we want to see.

Caralenko
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:06 AM
Woznacki isn't dominating anything, bring your very best at majors that's all we want to see.

Yes, she is. :weirdo: The question is: WHO IS DOMINATING THE TOUR. Slams are not the tour.

mariavikafan
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:08 AM
Yes, she is. :weirdo: The question is: WHO IS DOMINATING THE TOUR. Slams are not the tour.

Because Dubai and Doha are.:help:

Libertango
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:09 AM
Clearly Woz.

Ana dominated?!

¤CharlDa¤
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:09 AM
I don't think it's even a contest. Ana never really managed to win a lot consistently day in and day out, while Caro has been doing it since Wimbledon.

And the 'She has no GS' argument is totally irrelevant here. Or else Schiavone would have dominated the tour more than Wozniack? :shrug: :confused:

Apoleb
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:12 AM
Neither dominated anything.

How can you dominate when you don't even reach a slam FINAL? :smash:

scoobz
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:15 AM
Ana dominated the fistpump.

And that's about it :shrug:

blamoh
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:18 AM
It looks like some of you do not know anything about sport. To win a major is a very difficult task
in sports like golf, tennis and snooker. There are so many good players who never won a major both
in tennis, go;f or snooker. Let us consider the case of Jimmy White in snooker. Six good times
he went to the finals and was beaten on each time. There is no dispute about him he was a good
player those days but at time you wake up on the wrong side of the bed and everything goes wrong from
there.
How would you call Capriati, good or bad player. I am sure most of you will she was good player even better
than Caro just because she won three grsnd slams. But how long it had taken her to win a slam.
I think when she was 25 years old. So compare that to caro who is just 20 years and reached a final
of a grand slam. This girl is next star after Kim and Williams retire.

Mistress of Evil
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Leave poor Baby Anci alone. :sobbing:
Karolina The Great :bowdown:

Lunaticalm
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:22 AM
Majoli won a slam. Did she really dominate the tour as in a big chunk of the season? Naaah.

Uranus
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Caro needs wins over Kim or Serena to be considered dominant, imo. She is NOT the best player on the Tour.

It won't change much if she wins a slam defeating her usual opponents.

Monzanator
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:37 AM
Yes, she is. :weirdo: The question is: WHO IS DOMINATING THE TOUR. Slams are not the tour.

Cara has got a point here :) Woz is doing rather better then Ivanovic was ;)

thegreendestiny
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:45 AM
I used the term "dominated" because they were at their respective bests No. 1 and won quite a number of matches and titles.

Lets face reality guys whether you like it or not, you don't need a slam to dominate the tour these days. Mauresmo and Kim did it before, so did JJ and Dinara. That's a fact that we have to accept. Yes, slams are big part of the tour but they're NOT the tour.

sam.jones
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Ana was far away from dominating the tour. Before and after her RG win she was able to lose to any player

If Caro would win the next slam you could say so, sadly

Beny
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Ivanovic never dominated. Safina and Jankovic dominated more than her. But Wozniacki is dominating even more. I can only recall similar domination in 2006 by Mauresmo. Or second half of 2007 by Henin.

Lapaco
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:57 AM
Ivanovic never dominated. Safina and Jankovic dominated more than her. But Wozniacki is dominating even more. I can only recall similar domination in 2006 by Mauresmo. Or second half of 2007 by Henin.

:lol: Mauresmo never dominated.

Shvedbarilescu
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:15 AM
It looks like some of you do not know anything about sport. To win a major is a very difficult task in sports like golf, tennis and snooker. There are so many good players who never won a major both
in tennis, go;f or snooker. Let us consider the case of Jimmy White in snooker. Six good times
he went to the finals and was beaten on each time. There is no dispute about him he was a good
player those days but at time you wake up on the wrong side of the bed and everything goes wrong from
there.
How would you call Capriati, good or bad player. I am sure most of you will she was good player even better
than Caro just because she won three grsnd slams. But how long it had taken her to win a slam.
I think when she was 25 years old. So compare that to caro who is just 20 years and reached a final
of a grand slam. This girl is next star after Kim and Williams retire.

To win a major is indeed a very difficult task. Only 4 players at the most and sometimes as few as two win a major each year.

But to win eight WTA titles over 12 months is also a very difficult task. One can make a case, and quite a strong case at that, that it is infact a more difficult task. In the last 10 years how many players have won majors? How many have won 8 titles over 12 months?

Soliloque
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:26 AM
The girl who's holding 4 of the 6 greatest WTA tournaments (having played 5) is the one who's dominating the tour right now.

cellophane
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:27 AM
I'd rather have Ivanovic back at number 1 :help: On second thought, maybe not :lol:

goldenlox
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:31 AM
I think there is a chance that Wozniacki is the next great player.
But she still has to do in majors.. what she is doing this week.
Blowing everyone out in onesided matches

DownInAHole
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:34 AM
At this moment I think that it is impossible to say. Let's wait and see how long Caroline can maintain her current level and if Ana get get back at or near the top of the game. Both of them are still young, Ana could get herself together and win several more slams and Wozniacki could become a multi slam winner or they could both tank and drop out of the top 100. The only fair grade to give both of them is an incomplete.

terjw
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:35 AM
Neither fits the bill for dominating the tour yet although Caro has been dominating the Tier 1's of late.

Caro and Kim between them have definitely been dominating the tour since Wimbledon last year. But firstly - that's not a whole year yet. And secondly - Caro on her own hasn't won a slam. Dominating the tour means slams and titles - and the last one to really do that over a whole year was Justine in 2007.

As for the idea that VIP ever dominated anything. :lol::lol: But well done to her in the 1st part of 2008 with her slam Title and slam Final.

Mr.Sharapova
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Neither of them have dominated or are dominating :shrug:.

Ivanovic won Roland Garros but she pretty much sucked after that :shrug:.

Wozniacki needs to win a slam to be called as the dominator of the tour right now :angel:

InsideOut.
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Wozniacki. :rolleyes: Go away thegreendestiny. Ugly hater. :smash:

DownInAHole
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Clearly Caroline is dominating TF, isn't that what is really important?;)

Carotastrophe
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:49 AM
Neither dominated anything.

How can you dominate when you don't even reach a slam FINAL? :smash:

ummm.. does US Open 2009 ring a bell?

Soliloque
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:53 AM
Ivanovic led an Henin-less and Clijsters-less tour but screwed her ranking. :help:


Wozniacki led an Henin-less and Serena-less tour but keeps beating everyone else. :o

Discuss.

Too bad she's unable to beat these players in Grand Slams (Zvonareva, Schiavone, Kvitova...). She can't even reach Kim or Serena in slams.

kman
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:56 AM
To win a major is indeed a very difficult task. Only 4 players at the most and sometimes as few as two win a major each year.

But to win eight WTA titles over 12 months is also a very difficult task. One can make a case, and quite a strong case at that, that it is infact a more difficult task. In the last 10 years how many players have won majors? How many have won 8 titles over 12 months?

:worship:

Matej
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:03 PM
Strictly speaking, neither of them dominated. Pete Sampras became the No. 1 in April 1993 for the first time, winning 8 titles in the last 52 weeks (1992: Kitzbühel, Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Lyon; 1993: Sydney, Miami, Tokyo and Hongkong) but without winning any major. However, I wouldn´t say that he dominated the tour at that time, since Jim Courier had won two GS titles (RG 92 and AO 93) over the last 12 months. And Sampras had actually better results at GS tournaments than Wozniacki has (RG 92 - QF, Wim 92 - SF, UO 92 - F, AO 93 - SF).

Furthermore, if I am not mistaken, Wozniacki was able to win a tournament in which Clijsters also participated just once (Montreal).


Nevertheless, since the question is of a comparative nature, Wozniacki´s results are more impressive than Ana´s results were back in 2007/2008.

!VamosRafa!
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:05 PM
When did Ana dominate? haha!:lol:
Didn't Maria dominate:hearts: back when Ana was at her best:confused:

Jane Lane
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:09 PM
:haha: The only time Ivanovic and dominated should be used in the same sentence are if the word 'was' was in the middle and the words 'by Coin, K-Bond, Dulko and Zheng at Slams' were at the end.

Six Feet Under
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Ivanovic never dominated the tour :lol:

Soliloque
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:25 PM
To win a major is indeed a very difficult task. Only 4 players at the most and sometimes as few as two win a major each year.

But to win eight WTA titles over 12 months is also a very difficult task. One can make a case, and quite a strong case at that, that it is infact a more difficult task. In the last 10 years how many players have won majors? How many have won 8 titles over 12 months?

Venus, Lindsay, Kim, Justine, Serena have all done that (with even more titles in 12 months).

Lindsay was holding 9 titles in October 2001 and 7 titles in February 2005 and 7 tites in October 2005.
Venus was holding 9 titles in July/August 2001, 9 titles in August 2002.
Serena was holding 10 titles in February 2003.
Henin was holding 11 titles in February 2004 and 12 titles in February 2008.
Kim was holding 11 titles in October 2003 and 9 titles in October 2005.

So it has been done like 10 times over the last 10 years and against better opponents.

terjw
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:30 PM
I used the term "dominated" because they were at their respective bests No. 1 and won quite a number of matches and titles.



OK. But you must have realised that domination isn't a term the vast number of posters associate with these two players without heavily qualifying it and will simply not vote in the poll on the grounds that it isn't a term you can apply to either of them.

Njalle
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:33 PM
Venus, Lindsay, Kim, Justine, Serena have all done that (with even more titles in 12 months).

Lindsay was holding 9 titles in October 2001 and 7 titles in February 2005 and 7 tites in October 2005.
Venus was holding 9 titles in July/August 2001, 9 titles in August 2002.
Serena was holding 10 titles in February 2003.
Henin was holding 11 titles in February 2004 and 12 titles in February 2008.
Kim was holding 11 titles in October 2003 and 9 titles in October 2005.

So it has been done like 10 times over the last 10 years and against better opponents.

So now you are comparing Caroline Wozniacki to Lindsay Davenport, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters? :devil:

terjw
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:37 PM
Venus, Lindsay, Kim, Justine, Serena have all done that (with even more titles in 12 months).

Lindsay was holding 9 titles in October 2001 and 7 titles in February 2005 and 7 tites in October 2005.
Venus was holding 9 titles in July/August 2001, 9 titles in August 2002.
Serena was holding 10 titles in February 2003.
Henin was holding 11 titles in February 2004 and 12 titles in February 2008.
Kim was holding 11 titles in October 2003 and 9 titles in October 2005.

So it has been done like 10 times over the last 10 years and against better opponents.

Pretty rare company to be in. The question was firstly how many players have done it - and the answer is from your response is just those five. Now we need an answer for the other part of the question which is how many players have won a slam in the last 10 years. It's more than five!

Oh and we are not counting the number of times it was done. Otherwise to make the comparison we'd have the other question as the number of times a slam is won in the last 10 years which of course is 40

Matej
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:39 PM
So now you are comparing Caroline Wozniacki to Lindsay Davenport, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters? :devil:

He was just answering Shvedbarilescu´s question, that´s all. Gosh, these Danish posters ...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Soliloque
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:44 PM
So now you are comparing Caroline Wozniacki to Lindsay Davenport, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters? :devil:

No I was not. Like I said, it has been done before, sometimes with more impressive ways and against better opponents by players who have been able to win slams. Just to show that Caroline's performance is very good but not exceptionnal and kinda less prestigious that the last times it have been done.

young_gunner913
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:44 PM
ummm.. does US Open 2009 ring a bell?

Technically, Caro wasn't as "dominate" in 2009 when she reached the USO final as she became at the end of last season to now.

kman
Feb 26th, 2011, 12:45 PM
He was just answering Shvedbarilescu´s question, that´s all. Gosh, these Danish posters ...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

love you too

Matt01
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Neither dominated anything.

How can you dominate when you don't even reach a slam FINAL? :smash:


Ivanovic never reached a Slam final? ;)

miffedmax
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:14 PM
http://www.fsgreece.com/screenshots/vintI10_g.jpg

Beny
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:20 PM
:lol: Mauresmo never dominated.

She beat everyone in 2006 :shrug: Henin, Clijsters, Serena, Sharapova (all in slams) I dont know if she beat Venus but she beat her the years before and after many times I think.
Two grand slams, one semi, YEC final (where she dominated everyone except her first and last match :p )

And she was No.1 from Indian Wells on basically the whole year

Beny
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:28 PM
I think there is a chance that Wozniacki is the next great player.
But she still has to do in majors.. what she is doing this week.
Blowing everyone out in onesided matches

Possibly, but I think there is also a chance that Wozniacki will be the next Dinara Safina. Safina dominated in similar way. But then she lost that something. I kind of have a feeling that players will figure out how to beat Caro. Caro has this new approach, using the top spin so well that she doesnt make many errors. Thats what wins you loads of matches in an era of Kvitova, Ivanovic, Sharapova when everyone just goes for the winner from the return of serve on. Caro has the defense and a dangerous top spin to eliminate that. Mauresmo was similar in 2006, except she served and volleyed and went to the net more.

Players should play patiently against Caro, the Schiavone/Mauresmo-like style. And finish off points at net. But 99% of women are scared :scared: because Caro has such good passing shots. Still it´s almost impossible to beat her in baseline rallies unless you have the best day or you are Clijsters.

mariavikafan
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:39 PM
Possibly, but I think there is also a chance that Wozniacki will be the next Dinara Safina. Safina dominated in similar way. But then she lost that something. I kind of have a feeling that players will figure out how to beat Caro. Caro has this new approach, using the top spin so well that she doesnt make many errors. Thats what wins you loads of matches in an era of Kvitova, Ivanovic, Sharapova when everyone just goes for the winner from the return of serve on. Caro has the defense and a dangerous top spin to eliminate that. Mauresmo was similar in 2006, except she served and volleyed and went to the net more.

Players should play patiently against Caro, the Schiavone/Mauresmo-like style. And finish off points at net. But 99% of women are scared :scared: because Caro has such good passing shots. Still it´s almost impossible to beat her in baseline rallies unless you have the best day or you are Clijsters.

Oh please, Sharapova played easily one of her worst matches that day and her serve was abyssmal she gave it many times to Caro, I agree that Caro defended really well that day but Maria made many mistakes off Caroline's serve. Off the ground her UE were mostly because Caroline was everywhere I give you that.
Do I need to remind you that Kvitova beat Caroline 2 and 0 at Wimbledon so sure on HC her game seems to work but on others surfaces:help: but I definitely agree that on HC players should be more patient and let Caroline take control of the rallies she is clearly not comfortable when she has to dominate points, and is very comfortable when she has to run.

Beny
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Oh please, Sharapova played easily one of her worst matches that day and her serve was abyssmal she gave it many times to Caro, I agree that Caro defended really well that day but Maria made many mistakes off Caroline's serve. Off the ground her UE were mostly because Caroline was everywhere I give you that.
Do I need to remind you that Kvitova beat Caroline 2 and 0 at Wimbledon so sure on HC her game seems to work but on others surfaces:help: but I definitely agree that on HC players should be more patient and let Caroline take control of the rallies she is clearly not comfortable when she has to dominate points, and is very comfortable when she has to run.

Actually, I was not referring to any particular match, just to the era of ballbashers.

Kvitova had a great day, but Caro beat her afterwards. No one can consistently play Kvitova´s Wimbledon level last year.

And I dont think I completely agree with letting Caro dominate. Actually, not at all. She can play agressive. She only plays agressive when she has to. When it´s better to be defensive (like against Cibulkova at AO, US Open) she does it and it wins her the match.
I think you have to be agressive if you want to beat Caro, as I said, play top spin like Schiavone or Mauresmo and go to the net. With a top spin you can play angles, which usually Caro gets back in a really good way, but when not take the chance and go for it. It takes patience and seems only really good players can do that.

The way Zvonareva and Jankovic beat Caro at USO/IW is a great example of patient agressiveness :)
It´s such a shame Jankovic wasted those 5-3, 40-0 set points. last week....

oomph
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:51 PM
Kind of hard to call it "domination" when you can't go all the way when everyone is in class.

Burisleif
Feb 26th, 2011, 01:58 PM
Oh please, Sharapova played easily one of her worst matches that day and her serve was abyssmal she gave it many times to Caro,

How convenient... Alas the media do not agree with your assessment... Maria's game was deconstructed by Caro, in particular her movement, with Maria resorting to drop shots to try and regain a foothold in the game. Caro's game has grown considerably since then. It might not have been a "Peak Maria" but it was her best form to date since her unfortunate play induced injury.

Do I need to remind you that Kvitova beat Caroline 2 and 0 at Wimbledon so sure on HC her game seems to work but on others surfaces:help:

Indeed an ankle strapped Caroline was unable to reach Petra's shots. While you mention this game, you again conveniently forget that Caro convincingly beat Petra twice on clay and in their subsequent rematch.

Mistress of Evil
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:07 PM
So many insecure ppl. :sobbing: Having the need to flourish and defend Karolina. :awww:

Burisleif
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:11 PM
So many insecure ppl. :sobbing: Having the need to flourish and defend Karolina. :awww:

I think you mean, "so many insecure ppl. :sobbing: Having the need to flourish and bash Karolina. :awww:"

Matej
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Indeed an ankle strapped Caroline was unable to reach Petra's shots. While you mention this game, you again conveniently forget that Caro convincingly beat Petra twice on clay and in their subsequent rematch.

That´s really funny. In that match, Wozniacki was usually nowhere near to reach Petra´s shots, an ankle strapped, or not. :):worship:

And after Wimbledon, Petra was in a considerable slump for some time, so I do not consider the subsequent rematch that much telling. Anyway, I look forward to their future matches, they should be interesting.

Break My Rapture
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:17 PM
They both dominated?

Ivanovic2008
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:30 PM
Ivanovic never dominated. Safina and Jankovic dominated more than her. But Wozniacki is dominating even more. I can only recall similar domination in 2006 by Mauresmo. Or second half of 2007 by Henin.

What the hell? Ana could beat Safina and Jankovic in straights and she a slam and more titles :p.

Burisleif
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:32 PM
That´s really funny. In that match, Wozniacki was usually nowhere near to reach Petra´s shots, an ankle strapped, or not. :):worship:

And after Wimbledon, Petra was in a considerable slump for some time, so I do not consider the subsequent rematch that much telling. Anyway, I look forward to their future matches, they should be interesting.

Indeed future matches should be interesting... I think the re match was telling to a point as were the previous meetings... but as you imply, tennis is not a laboratory experiment with controlled materials and conditions. Players are fortunately human, and Tennis for me is all about how humans and strategies match up... thankfully unlike a laboratory experiment it evolves, and what dominated as little as a year previously may not even be in contention a year later game wise.

Somebody quite talented said once "champions adapt, losers complain"

at the moment you would be brave to suggest that Caro and Kim aren't dominating the tour between them, and it will be interesting to see what happens when Sw returns, and or others adapt.

LoLex
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Wozniacki.

Ivanovic2008
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:33 PM
Clearly Caroline is dominating TF, isn't that what is really important?;)
I don't think that means anything because three quarters of the people are drunk as hell when the post. :lol:

Mistress of Evil
Feb 26th, 2011, 02:34 PM
I think you mean, "so many insecure ppl. :sobbing: Having the need to flourish and bash Karolina. :awww:"

This too. ;) Its both ways. :p

FORZA SARITA
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:00 PM
Ana barely won a match when was #1 :lol: one of the worst in history for sure :ignore:

Hian
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:02 PM
Ana barely won a match when was #1 :lol: one of the worst in history for sure :ignore:

Still better than Wozniacki :kiss:

nevetssllim
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:05 PM
:confused: Ivanovic never dominated anything.

Hian
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:07 PM
A Grand Slam and a Grand Slam final... she really did something :)

Olórin
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Neither has dominated anything :lol:

Wiggly
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:26 PM
Neither really ever dominated.

However, Caroline is doing a much better job with the #1 rank.

Ferg
Feb 26th, 2011, 03:55 PM
How the hell is this even under discussion?!?!? Caro wont really 'dominate' until shes making consistent Slam finals and wins but Ivanovic didnt even do anything close that could be described as dominating. At least Caro isnt falling to pieces.

mariavikafan
Feb 26th, 2011, 08:11 PM
The way Zvonareva and Jankovic beat Caro at USO/IW is a great example of patient agressiveness :)
It´s such a shame Jankovic wasted those 5-3, 40-0 set points. last week....

Actually you right and that's what I meant, no doubt Zvo and JJ don't seem to be disturb that much by Caro's game. I meant to not let Caro totally dominate rallies but force her to take risks sometimes and expose her weakness in offense by great defense, Zvonareva and JJ are good at that.

How convenient... Alas the media do not agree with your assessment... Maria's game was deconstructed by Caro, in particular her movement, with Maria resorting to drop shots to try and regain a foothold in the game. Caro's game has grown considerably since then. It might not have been a "Peak Maria" but it was her best form to date since her unfortunate play induced injury.

Still far from what we saw in Cincinnati and she wasn't even that good in her first three rounds in US.

Curtos07
Feb 26th, 2011, 08:36 PM
This thread is full of FAIL.

Balltossovic
Feb 26th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Yes, this is a FAIL thread.

Ana NEVER dominated. Period.

Caroline is way more consistant. Unfortunately, consistancy does not equal domination. I think an example of domination would be Justine during the 2007 season.

danieln1
Feb 26th, 2011, 08:54 PM
AO Final + Indian Wells + Roland Garros + Linz is better than anything Caroline ever did in her entire career, so Ana dominated much better

Balltossovic
Feb 26th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Those are great results, but there were others also achieving great things while she did that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Caro has has done more than Ana, but Ana has ALWAYS lacked consistancy.

Kim is dominating. Caro is not.

Volcana
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:22 PM
neither ever dominated :lol:Amazing that this thread didn't end right there.

danieln1
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:25 PM
Those are great results, but there were others also achieving great things while she did that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Caro has has done more than Ana, but Ana has ALWAYS lacked consistancy.

Kim is dominating. Caro is not.

I know, Ana is the most up and down player ever, there was even a thread by Cp6uja analyzing that awful trend.... too bad Ana put so much pressure in herself when she got to number 1, and injuries and mental injuries contributed to her decline

~Cherry*Blossom~
Feb 26th, 2011, 09:26 PM
Ana has NEVER dominated the tour :rolls:

Cp6uja
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:19 PM
I know, Ana is the most up and down player ever, there was even a thread by Cp6uja analyzing that awful trend.... Ana actually never even try to be dominant WTA player in classic way winning everything week after week when she is on peak. But on other hand people already forget that at her best (may2007-jun2008) she torture whole tour at biggest events which is hers ultimate priority. Strongest tennis events are for sure two-weekers (4xGS + Mia&IW) where almost all TOP100 playing and playing their best tennis, and also players there have often day rest between matches to better prepare and give her best. At her best between May of 2007 and June of 2008 Ana Ivanovic played 7 two-weekers reaching 4 finals with two titles. In her whole life so far Caroline Wozniacki played just 2 two-weekers finals (USO/09, IW/10) without any title! BTW in that Ana-PEAK period where she reach 4 two-weekers finals out of 7 other two-weekers finalist (winners) are: Ivanovic 4(2), Henin 2(2), Kuznetsova 2(0), Sharapova 1(1), Venus 1(1), Serena 1(1), Jankovic 1(0), Safina 1(0) and Bartoli 1(0). So who is dominant WTA tour person between May/07-Jun/08 if not Ivanovic??? Justine has great 2007 but whole 2008 before retirement is pathetic and painful, Venus have great Wimbledon 2007 and Maria great AO/2008, but talking about whole May-2007/Jun-2008 period Ivanovic is for sure most constant and consistent player in terms of results at biggest tennis events (two-weekers), area where Wozniacki struggle so far when we talking about titles or at least finals.

Belmont Lad
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:20 PM
Ludicrous poll. :lol: Ivanovic never dominated the tour.

sammy01
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:33 PM
neither has ever dominated. one won big but was still inconsistent even at her best, the other is very consistent but cant win big.

in my mind you have to win big and be consistent. we haven't had proper domination since 2007 henin (4 years without a tour leader :help:) but i suppose kim is pretty close to domination now (W,W,F,W,F) last 5 tournments.

nevetssllim
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:34 PM
AO Final + Indian Wells + Roland Garros + Linz is better than anything Caroline ever did in her entire career, so Ana dominated much better

The AO final so that hardly counts in her favour as far as domination goes and she went 4-3 between Indian Wells and Roland Garros. And a tier II title in Linz is irrelevant when discussing dominance.

Roookie
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:40 PM
Ana

homogenius
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:44 PM
Ana actually never even try to be dominant WTA player in classic way winning everything week after week when she is on peak. But on other hand people already forget that at her best (may2007-jun2008) she torture whole tour at biggest events which is hers ultimate priority. Strongest tennis events are for sure two-weekers (4xGS + Mia&IW) where almost all TOP100 playing and playing their best tennis, and also players there have often day rest between matches to better prepare and give her best. At her best between May of 2007 and June of 2008 Ana Ivanovic played 7 two-weekers reaching 4 finals with two titles. In her whole life so far Caroline Wozniacki played just 2 two-weekers finals (USO/09, IW/10) without any title! BTW in that Ana-PEAK period where she reach 4 two-weekers finals out of 7 other two-weekers finalist (winners) are: Ivanovic 4(2), Henin 2(2), Kuznetsova 2(0), Sharapova 1(1), Venus 1(1), Serena 1(1), Jankovic 1(0), Safina 1(0) and Bartoli 1(0). So who is dominant WTA tour person between May/07-Jun/08 if not Ivanovic??? Justine has great 2007 but whole 2008 before retirement is pathetic and painful, Venus have great Wimbledon 2007 and Maria great AO/2008, but talking about whole May-2007/Jun-2008 period Ivanovic is for sure most constant and consistent player in terms of results at biggest tennis events (two-weekers), area where Wozniacki struggle so far when we talking about titles or at least finals.

Justine.That's a nice stat you found but it doesn't change the big picture : between May 2007 and June 2008 Justine won 9 titles (including 2 slams and the YEC).She was 3-0 vs Ana and probably had a positive H2H against all the players she faced during that time (Ana can't really say the same).She was still n°1 when she retired and there was a reason...
Bottom line : yes ana had some great runs in big events and a very good 1,5 year.Did she ever dominated the tour ? No.

Cp6uja
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:47 PM
Ana has NEVER dominated the tour :rolls:
Ludicrous poll. :lol: Ivanovic never dominated the tour.Actually player which reach only one GS final (plus another two-weeker final) and both lose never dominate the tour :shrug:

By what criteria for example winning 4 tier-I Montreal, Beijing, Tokyo and Dubai (and reaching YEC final) in 7 months is more dominant achievement than to reach AO final, IW and RG titles in 6 months?

So Caroline Wozniacki "dominate" the tour between Aug2010/Feb2011 despite Kim Clijsters in same period won USO/10, YEC/10 and AO/11, but Ana Ivanovic not dominate Dec2007/Jun2008 (7 months also) where except partly Sharapova nobody even close don't have similar achievements compared to Ivanovic RG/08 title, AO/08 final and IW/08 title.between May 2007 and June 2008 Justine won 9 titles (including 2 slams and the YEC)...
Bottom line : yes ana had some great runs in big events and a very good 1,5 year.Did she ever dominated the tour ? No.All that achievements belong to hers career best 2007 season (except couple MM titles). When she retired in may of 2008 she is probably not even TOP8 in 2008 YEC race.

Ferg
Feb 26th, 2011, 10:49 PM
Woz actually wins stuff when shes #1. Ana didnt and lost loads of matches horribly and totally collapsed under the pressure. Cant see the comparisons.

Matt01
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:09 PM
neither has ever dominated. one won big but was still inconsistent even at her best, the other is very consistent but cant win big.

in my mind you have to win big and be consistent. we haven't had proper domination since 2007 henin (4 years without a tour leader :help:) but i suppose kim is pretty close to domination now (W,W,F,W,F) last 5 tournments.


Kim isn't dominating sine she isn't even #1 in the rankings. Other than that, I basically agree with you.

homogenius
Feb 26th, 2011, 11:35 PM
All that achievements belong to hers career best 2007 season (except couple MM titles). When she retired in may of 2008 she is probably not even TOP8 in 2008 YEC race.

You asked who had better results than Ana during her peak period (May07-June08)and I answered :shrug:
Ana never dominated.She was one of the 3 or 4 best players in the world for a year and a half but at no point did she prove she was able to dominate the tour (not consistent enough AND not able to beat the other top players on a consistent basis).

For the record, despite all the titles she got since the US summer last year, I don't think Wozniacki has been dominating the tour either.

Balltossovic
Feb 27th, 2011, 12:02 AM
I really don't think we should waste time arguing points or stats. Neither player has dominated. Ana has had better results during her peak than Caro. Period.

Caro has been more consistent during her peak than Ana. Period.

There's nothing to talk about, and I personally think this thread was created just to get people to bash both players. I'm glad the points have been done respectfully at least...

Balltossovic
Feb 27th, 2011, 12:12 AM
Kim isn't dominating sine she isn't even #1 in the rankings. Other than that, I basically agree with you.
I don't think being number one is a prerequisite of domination. When kim enters a tourney, you can almost always bank on her to win it. She's beating everyone, including the best player on the tour (serena), and the current number one (Wozniacki), since her comeback.

Do you really think Caro is more dominant than Kim? (I know you didn't say that; I'm just asking...)

Matt01
Feb 27th, 2011, 12:25 AM
I don't think being number one is a prerequisite of domination. When kim enters a tourney, you can almost always bank on her to win it. She's beating everyone, including the best player on the tour (serena), and the current number one (Wozniacki), since her comeback.

Do you really think Caro is more dominant than Kim? (I know you didn't say that; I'm just asking...)


Well, IMO you have to win a certain amount of tournaments in a certain timeframe (eg in one year). Kim did not win so many tournaments, but she won the big ones (but only the ones on HC)...Caro won more but smaller ones...I think it's really hard to say who is more dominant.
Neither are are really dominating the tour IMO.

Balltossovic
Feb 27th, 2011, 12:40 AM
Well, IMO you have to win a certain amount of tournaments in a certain timeframe (eg in one year). Kim did not win so many tournaments, but she won the big ones (but only the ones on HC)...Caro won more but smaller ones...I think it's really hard to say who is more dominant.
Neither are are really dominating the tour IMO.
I agree with the first part of your statement, but, I think Kim is dominating more, simply because she did win those big tourneys, and I belive Caro was in all, if not most of the draws as well.

Plus, going forward, I am banking on Kim winning more big tournaments. I know Caro will win, but I don't think she'll do it at the majors. I'd love for her to prove me wrong, but I think her game is still lacking a bit.

Cp6uja
Feb 27th, 2011, 01:13 AM
Well, IMO you have to win a certain amount of tournaments in a certain timeframe (eg in one year). Kim did not win so many tournaments, but she won the big ones (but only the ones on HC)...Caro won more but smaller ones...I think it's really hard to say who is more dominant.
Neither are are really dominating the tour IMO.What about You talking :confused::confused::confused:

Kim Clijsters is first player since Steffi Graf from 1993 which won back-to-back USO-YEC-AO. Last 18 years nobody finished one season and start next season on that impressive way, but You are not sure who is more dominant player now - Kim Clijsters at her best or still slamless Wozniacki ??? :tape:

Talking about surfaces factor in current #1 race in Wozniacki favor is ridiculous because Kim Clijsters played only one claycourt event (MM) thanks to last season serious injury (w/o zero points from all mandatory clay events RG, Madrid and Rome* is only reason why Kim is not #1 today) and at grass despite disappointment Kim still played way better than Caro (620pts vs 281pts, both played 2 events).

terjw
Feb 27th, 2011, 01:53 AM
I don't think being number one is a prerequisite of domination. When kim enters a tourney, you can almost always bank on her to win it. She's beating everyone, including the best player on the tour (serena), and the current number one (Wozniacki), since her comeback.

Do you really think Caro is more dominant than Kim? (I know you didn't say that; I'm just asking...)

I think it's an overstatement to say Kim is dominating the tour on her own. But it's certainly true that the two of them Caro and Kim together have dominated the tour since Wimbledon. And yes Kim a little more than Caro since she's got the slams and the YEC. But it still has to be both IMO before I woud use the term "dominate". Even then it's not a whole year and has to be qualified with "since Wimbledon".

Same sort of thing happened in 2003 to early 2004. The Belgians (Justine and Kim) dominated the tour after Wimbledon. Again we had one player (Justine) sweeping up the slams - but it's an overstatement to say she and she alone dominated the tour then.

On their own - it is certainly a prerequisite for a player to win slams and be #1 to truly dominate the tour IMO. Although a player can dominate for a short period without being #1.

Balltossovic
Feb 27th, 2011, 02:07 AM
I think it's an overstatement to say Kim is dominating the tour on her own. But it's certainly true that the two of them Caro and Kim together have dominated the tour since Wimbledon. And yes Kim a little more than Caro since she's got the slams and the YEC. But it still has to be both IMO before I woud use the term "dominate". Even then it's not a whole year and has to be qualified with "since Wimbledon".

Same sort of thing happened in 2003 to early 2004. The Belgians (Justine and Kim) dominated the tour after Wimbledon. Again we had one player (Justine) sweeping up the slams - but it's an overstatement to say she and she alone dominated the tour then.

On their own - it is certainly a prerequisite for a player to win slams and be #1 to truly dominate the tour IMO. Although a player can dominate for a short period without being #1.
Ah. You've put into words what I was thinking but could not state.

I'll agree with all your points.

Lachy
Feb 27th, 2011, 03:29 AM
Last time I checked, Woz is still ranked inside the top 100. So I'd say she dominated the tour better ;)

tea
Feb 27th, 2011, 06:45 AM
Isn't it amusing that in tens of posts here they're like parrots keep repeating "neither dominated"?:awww: Ivanovic fans:hug:

Anyways the questing was who better, so it doesn't require more than 1.5 braincells to figure that out.

The 2nd Law
Feb 27th, 2011, 08:43 AM
^ :lol: nice try.

Neither dominated :p If you take both girl's best results from their respective peaks and merge them, then you have something that looks like domination.
This thread was only made so we could bash both players.

Sombrerero loco
Feb 27th, 2011, 10:56 AM
clearly the sunshine

Halepsova
Feb 27th, 2011, 06:32 PM
Even Jankovic is dominated the tour more than Ana, if I may use that word.

Carsten
Feb 27th, 2011, 06:37 PM
what domination?

Mynarco
Feb 27th, 2011, 06:40 PM
When did these two dominate the tour before? The real domination is Serena (2002-2003), and Justine (2007)

In The Zone
Feb 28th, 2011, 05:06 AM
Ivanovic never dominated. Jankovic or Safina would be better comparisons.