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mykarma
Feb 6th, 2011, 11:25 PM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2011/02/04/133401341/bornthisway
Born Gay, Born This Way: A Photo Blog

by Selena Simmons-Duffin

A recently launched blog called "Born This Way!" does something very simple: It pairs a snapshot of a gay person as a kid with a personal essay about what he or she sees when looking at the photo.
JC, age 5, Manila, Philippines, 1986
Courtesy of "Born This Way"

JC, age 5, Manila, Philippines, 1986

"I always knew I was different from other boys, even at an early age. This photo definitely proves it," JC writes in a post. "Looking at it now, as a 31-year-old, it only reaffirms what I've always believed — that my being gay wasn't a choice."

The photos are totally delightful, and the essays are thoughtful and often funny. But there is no denying that the site is wading in contentious waters. The blog's editor, a DJ in Los Angeles who goes by Paul V, attempts to pre-empt one issue in the blog's about page:


"So, some of the pix here feature gay boys with feminine traits, and some gay girls with masculine traits. And even more gay kids with NONE of those traits. Just like real life, these gay kids come in all shades and layers of masculine and feminine. And this project is not about furthering stereotypes."

The other flash point is in the site's premise. It didn't take long for the comments section on the first post to spark a conversation about nature versus nurture in regards to sexuality. And if you're looking for a representative sample of the queer community, this probably isn't the place to look.

Potential controversy aside, the site appears to have been created in the spirit of fun. The photos below speak for themselves.
Isaac, age 7, Karratha, Western Australia, 1995
Courtesy of "Born This Way"

Isaac, age 7, Karratha, Western Australia, 1995

Here I am with my two brothers in the dustbowl mining town of Karratha, where the dirt is red and the people are predominantly white. Being one of the few ethnic people in town didn't bug me so much; I just assumed I was white like everyone else. Ah, the innocence of youth.

At this point in my life I lived a blissfully unaware gay lifestyle: Having all female friends, really REALLY liking Catwoman, and always trying on my friends' fake, plastic, high-heeled shoes when I went to their house.

I actually didn't realize I was even close to being gay until my graduating year of high school, so this photo is one of those things I look at now and think to myself — "How did I NOT know?!"

Whenever I have a party at my house or friends come over, they all see this photo and piss themselves laughing. I share a pretty similar sentiment. I mean, look at me, I can't tell whether I'm posing or trying to hold in a wee.
Jerome, age 8, Groesbeck, Texas, 1959
Courtesy of "Born This Way"

Jerome, age 8, Groesbeck, Texas, 1959

We didn't have the word "gay" when I was a child, only the word "sissy!" Thanks to my older sister's movie magazines in the late 1950s, I was obsessed with Hollywood glamor. Here, in this photo, I think I'm emulating either Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield or Mamie Van Doren — perhaps all three! ...

Through the years when I've come across this photo, I would cringe.

But now, some 50 years after it was taken, I find it charming.
Shanna, age 8, San Bernardino, Calif., 1988
Courtesy of "Born This Way"

Shanna, age 8, San Bernardino, Calif., 1988

I was either dressed up for Church (creepy!) or a city-wide oratorical contest (geeky!). Or did I wear a bow-tie to the contest?

A long and awkward attempt at hetero-conformity followed this freedom; then I realized I was a lesbian at 19 while at a conservative Christian college.


Andrew, age 5, Apple Valley, Minn., 1982
Courtesy of "Born This Way"

Andrew, age 5, Apple Valley, Minn., 1982

Be honest with yourself — even as an adult. How else would you be able to pass through your Grandma's hallway WITHOUT putting that hat on? Furthermore, how can you NOT take it out for a spin in the garden?

I don't remember this particular day of my life, but I remember at this age (except for all but the hat), this is how I dressed all the time. Accessories included the ever popular wristbands and knee-high tube socks with the rainbow of stripes. And, my trusty companion: a leather coin purse with a neon green shoelace acting as my purse strap.

I honestly never felt "different" growing up. I had wonderful parents who just let me do what I wanted, and didn't make me do anything I didn't want to do (including homework).

My older brothers teased me relentlessly, but only because they were my older brothers, and that's what they do. To that end, I realized very late in life, when I was 18, that I was gay.

It was no big deal, no big freak out; just, "This makes sense, this is who I am."

DaMamaJama87
Feb 6th, 2011, 11:33 PM
What this blog does not mention is the thousands of boys and girls who don't follow gender stereotypes as children but still don't fall into the homosexual lifestyle later on in life. I am willing to bet there are a lot more examples of sensitive boys and tomboy girls who never become homosexual than the kinds of people on this blog.

VivalaSeles
Feb 7th, 2011, 01:20 AM
What this blog does not mention is the thousands of boys and girls who don't follow gender stereotypes as children but still don't fall into the homosexual lifestyle later on in life. I am willing to bet there are a lot more examples of sensitive boys and tomboy girls who never become homosexual than the kinds of people on this blog.
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle nor is it something one «falls» into.

Williamsser
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:21 AM
No gay gene has been discovered. I think it is more about the way a person is raised. It is more nurture than nature.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:32 AM
No gay gene has been discovered. I think it is more about the way a person is raised. It is more nurture than nature.

I think so too. It seems to be psychological rather than physiological.

swissmr
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:42 AM
I think so too. It seems to be psychological rather than physiological.

Oh honey :hug:

mykarma
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:54 AM
No gay gene has been discovered. I think it is more about the way a person is raised. It is more nurture than nature.
Did you click on the link? These pictures were of young children not grown men and what is this gay gene you're referring to? Stop being ignorant.

mykarma
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:56 AM
What this blog does not mention is the thousands of boys and girls who don't follow gender stereotypes as children but still don't fall into the homosexual lifestyle later on in life. I am willing to bet there are a lot more examples of sensitive boys and tomboy girls who never become homosexual than the kinds of people on this blog.
So what does that have to do with these individuals?

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:00 AM
So what does that have to do with these individuals?

It shows that this blog cannot make the argument that these kids were "born that way" because of their behaviour as a child as there are so many more kids who did the same things but never turned out like them.

mykarma
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:12 AM
It shows that this blog cannot make the argument that these kids were "born that way" because of their behaviour as a child as there are so many more kids who did the same things but never turned out like them.
Don't know if you've ever heard it or not but everyone's DNA is unique.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:41 AM
It shows that this blog cannot make the argument that these kids were "born that way" because of their behaviour as a child as there are so many more kids who did the same things but never turned out like them.

The blog isn't making an argument that these kids were born this way. It's just showing pictures of fabulous gay people who were fabulous even as little kids :D

And what almost everyone fails to realize is that where it's nature or nurture or both doesn't matter. It's fine either way. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality whether it's something that people are or something that people become. And I'm pretty sick of all this "born this way" talk that just reeks of "it's not their fault" sentiments. No one has to expain their sexuality to anyone else.

But just for the record, the lack of a gay gene doesn't mean it's not biological. Not everything that's biologically determined "has a gene."

pov
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:45 AM
What this blog does not mention is the thousands of boys and girls who don't follow gender stereotypes as children but still don't fall into the homosexual lifestyle later on in life. I am willing to bet there are a lot more examples of sensitive boys and tomboy girls who never become homosexual than the kinds of people on this blog.
:yeah: I'll throw my chips in on that bet . .it's a sure thing!

swissmr
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:46 AM
Damamajama probably acted that way as a kid himself and is being painfully reminded of own self hatred and repressed homosexuality :kiss:

pov
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:48 AM
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle nor is it something one «falls» into.


I disagree. Being homosexual isn't a lifestyle but it's clear that many (most?) homosexual folks have developed set lifestyles of homosexuality. And I also think some people do "fall into it" - people who are naturally bi-sexual.

swissmr
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:51 AM
I disagree. Being homosexual isn't a lifestyle but it's clear that many (most?) homosexual folks have developed set lifestyles of homosexuality. And I also think some people do "fall into it" - people who are naturally bi-sexual.

For example?

pov
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:54 AM
Just to be clear I am sure that there are people who are "naturally homosexual." Y'know all this hoopla is so silly. There are def things that I get annoyed about that are "gay" but those things have nothing to do with a person being with some one of the same sex. Let's put it this way - the behaviors I find off-putting are off-putting to me no matter what sexuality the person is. However they are behaviors that are more often chosen by homosexual males.

pov
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:56 AM
For example?
Uh-huh . yeah-ah. I'm gonna take that bait. Sure.

Brooklyn90
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:58 AM
Anyone who thinks being gay was determined by how you were raised is obviously clueless. How do you explain twins who were raised by the same parents and brought up the exact same way, one is gay and one is straight?!

Anyways, my cousin sent me this article a couple of days ago and said "I remember when you used to wear grandma's shoes" :) To me their are allot of homosexual people that are very straight acting because it's just they way they are, and allot of gay people who may be more feminine. Just because you may not act like the others boys growing up doesn't mean you will turn out gay. I feel like this article is classifying most gay people as being feminine when they were younger, and that is not the case at all! I know allot of gay men who are very "straight acting" and were as kids.

delicatecutter
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:00 AM
Where did all this homophobia come from? :unsure:

swissmr
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:04 AM
Uh-huh . yeah-ah. I'm gonna take that bait. Sure.

Well if you're going to make such a general claim you might at least want to say what you mean by it. Anyhow, I don't think anyone who refers to homosexuality as a "lifestyle" is someone I will ever see eye-to-eye with. :o

Also, I think you may be stupidly ignorant slightly confused about what you describe as the way some people 'choose' to behave.

Brooklyn90
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:07 AM
Where did all this homophobia come from? :unsure:

ignorance is a very sad thing :sad:

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:09 AM
Anyone who thinks being gay was determined by how you were raised is obviously clueless. How do you explain twins who were raised by the same parents and brought up the exact same way, one is gay and one is straight?!

That actually disproves your argument. If homosexuality were genetic then identical twins should both be homosexual as they have identical genes, if one becomes homosexual and the other doesn't it proves that there was something in the environment that made the difference.



Anyways, my cousin sent me this article a couple of days ago and said "I remember when you used to wear grandma's shoes" :) To me their are allot of homosexual people that are very straight acting because it's just they way they are, and allot of gay people who may be more feminine. Just because you may not act like the others boys growing up doesn't mean you will turn out gay. I feel like this article is classifying most gay people as being feminine when they were younger, and that is not the case at all! I know allot of gay men who are very "straight acting" and were as kids.

I bet there were many kids who wore their grandma's shoes and never became homosexual. These behaviours show kids testing gender boundaries or learning about gender roles, most of them never fall into homosexual behaviour as an adult which is completely different.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:12 AM
That actually disproves your argument. If homosexuality were genetic then identical twins should both be homosexual as they have identical genes, if one becomes homosexual and the other doesn't it proves that there was something in the environment that made the difference.



I bet there were many kids who wore their grandma's shoes and never became homosexual. These behaviours show kids testing gender boundaries or learning about gender roles, most of them never fall into homosexual behaviour as an adult which is completely different.

There are things that are biological that don't "have a gene," as I said earlier.

Brooklyn90
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:13 AM
That actually disproves your argument. If homosexuality were genetic then identical twins should both be homosexual as they have identical genes, if one becomes homosexual and the other doesn't it proves that there was something in the environment that made the difference.



I bet there were many kids who wore their grandma's shoes and never became homosexual. These behaviours show kids testing gender boundaries or learning about gender roles, most of them never fall into homosexual behaviour as an adult which is completely different.

In the womb twins can have allot of stuff happen to one that doesn't happen to the other. And my point on that was that(these are actually people I know) they were raised and brought up the exact same way with the same principals and the sames parents. Not every trait in the womb one twin has the other will have as well.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:16 AM
In the womb twins can have allot of stuff happen to one that doesn't happen to the other. And my point on that was that(these are actually people I know) they were raised and brought up the exact same way with the same principals and the sames parents. Not every trait one twin has the other will have as well.

But genes are set at inception, not in the womb. It's much easier to prove that both have identical genetics than to prove that both had identical lives. Humans can't repeat things exactly the same, the two children's experiences should have been different depending on the way their parents treated each one, their friends, their school experience, etc.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:18 AM
There are things that are biological that don't "have a gene," as I said earlier.

But identical twins are biologically identical even if you use that definition.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:20 AM
But genes are set at inception, not in the womb. It's much easier to prove that both have identical genetics than to prove that both had identical lives. Humans can't repeat things exactly the same, the two children's experiences should have been different depending on the way their parents treated each one, their friends, their school experience, etc.

I'm sorry, but if being gay is something that every gay person actively chooses, then how do people end up "being in the closet?" Being in the closet involves not wanting to be gay and trying to "become straight" and not being able to do so.

rada
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:22 AM
Anyone who thinks being gay was determined by how you were raised is obviously clueless. How do you explain twins who were raised by the same parents and brought up the exact same way, one is gay and one is straight?!

Anyways, my cousin sent me this article a couple of days ago and said "I remember when you used to wear grandma's shoes" :) To me their are allot of homosexual people that are very straight acting because it's just they way they are, and allot of gay people who may be more feminine. Just because you may not act like the others boys growing up doesn't mean you will turn out gay. I feel like this article is classifying most gay people as being feminine when they were younger, and that is not the case at all! I know allot of gay men who are very "straight acting" and were as kids.

I agree, and to be honest I am a bit shocked at some comments on here I don't like calling people stupid but.......

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:27 AM
That actually disproves your argument. If homosexuality were genetic then identical twins should both be homosexual as they have identical genes, if one becomes homosexual and the other doesn't it proves that there was something in the environment that made the difference.



This demonstrates a very weak understanding of the nurture/nature debate. According to this logic, if one twin is a crack addict, then so is the other one. Your genetics may make you more likely to be one way or the other, but your environment may play a role in how you actually become. Now, I am not implying that sexuality is like crack addiction, nor do I know whether or not any of what I said can be applied to explain sexuality. I merely know that the statement I quoted is comically flawed.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:28 AM
^^ Seriously. I don't think anyone in this thread has an authoritative knowledge of genetics, so to throw the words "prove" and "disprove" around is just absurd.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:29 AM
I'm sorry, but if being gay is something that every gay person actively chooses, then how do people end up "being in the closet?" Being in the closet involves not wanting to be gay and trying to "become straight" and not being able to do so.
They've obviously chosen to be conflicted. Just like morbidly obese people have consciously decided to be that way, and ugly people are just average looking people who don't try hard enough.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:30 AM
^^ Seriously. I don't think anyone in this thread has an authoritative knowledge of genetics, so to throw the words "prove" and "disprove" around is just absurd.
Oh, I don't know about that. I think that I proved that his proof was lacking logic :D

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:30 AM
They've obviously chosen to be conflicted. Just like morbidly obese people have consciously decided to be that way, and ugly people are just average looking people who don't try hard enough.

or don't have enough gay friends.

delicatecutter
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:30 AM
Has it ever been proven that sexuality is a genetic thing anyway? :scratch:

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:32 AM
I'm sorry, but if being gay is something that every gay person actively chooses, then how do people end up "being in the closet?" Being in the closet involves not wanting to be gay and trying to "become straight" and not being able to do so.

I don't think having feelings like that is something someone chooses. I'm no expert but I think it's like other psychological conditions. No one "chooses" to have feelings of depression or anxiety, or "chooses" to have phobias or to have eating disorders but those things can all be a result of life experiences. Those things are also more easily seen as being counterproductive to a healthy life. Just as there can be counselling and other treatments for those accepted psychological issues, there can be the same for homosexuality. We don't tell depressed people, "You feel like harming yourself? No problem, you were born that way, act on it like it's normal." We try to help them to a healthier life.

The "choice" in homosexuality is in choosing the lifestyle, choosing to act on the compulsions and choosing dangerous behaviour. Bipolar people can choose not to take their medication.

delicatecutter
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:35 AM
Calgon, take this homophobe away. I just can't. :hysteric:

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:36 AM
I don't think having feelings like that is something someone chooses. I'm no expert but I think it's like other psychological conditions. No one "chooses" to have feelings of depression or anxiety, or "chooses" to have phobias or to have eating disorders but those things can all be a result of life experiences. Those things are also more easily seen as being counterproductive to a healthy life. Just as there can be counselling and other treatments for those accepted psychological issues, there can be the same for homosexuality. We don't tell depressed people, "You feel like harming yourself? No problem, you were born that way, act on it like it's normal." We try to help them to a healthier life.

The "choice" in homosexuality is in choosing the lifestyle, choosing to act on the compulsions and choosing dangerous behaviour. Bipolar people can choose not to take their medication.

Depression is a medical condition that has detrimental effects on people's physical and mental well-being. It can be effectively treated. The same expert psychiatrists who treat depression generally agree that homosexuality is not something that can be cured, and attempts to do so are harmful to the patient. There's no point in treating it, anyway, because it's not something that impacts people's lives negatively (on its own). The social stigma surrounding homosexuality is what is harmful :)

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:42 AM
Depression is a medical condition that has detrimental effects on people's physical and mental well-being. It can be effectively treated. The same expert psychiatrists who treat depression generally agree that homosexuality is not something that can be cured, and attempts to do so are harmful to the patient. There's no point in treating it, anyway, because it's not something that impacts people's lives negatively (on its own). The social stigma surrounding homosexuality is what is harmful :)

Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:48 AM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

1. The purpose of someone's life is up to the person. I don't think there's a "purpose of humanity." Plus, there are plenty of ways out there for gay couples to have children.

2. It is indeed correlated with dangerous behaviors. Crime rates are also higher in black communities, but I'm pretty sure it's not because of the amount of melanin in their skin, if you catch my drift.

3. Saying it's morally damaging to the fabric of communities is a claim that needs proof, and is without legitimate proof in every utterance of the claim. There are also lots of different "communities" in the world. To which communities is homosexuality damaging? Not any that I belong to.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:53 AM
I don't think having feelings like that is something someone chooses. I'm no expert but I think it's like other psychological conditions. No one "chooses" to have feelings of depression or anxiety, or "chooses" to have phobias or to have eating disorders but those things can all be a result of life experiences. Those things are also more easily seen as being counterproductive to a healthy life. Just as there can be counselling and other treatments for those accepted psychological issues, there can be the same for homosexuality. We don't tell depressed people, "You feel like harming yourself? No problem, you were born that way, act on it like it's normal." We try to help them to a healthier life.

The "choice" in homosexuality is in choosing the lifestyle, choosing to act on the compulsions and choosing dangerous behaviour. Bipolar people can choose not to take their medication.

Oh. See, I didn't realize at first that you're a raging homophobe. My bad. I see that pointing out you lack logic was futile. I will quietly duck out of this thread now. As you were.

moby
Feb 7th, 2011, 04:59 AM
Egalite is just slaying in this thread.

And what almost everyone fails to realize is that where it's nature or nurture or both doesn't matter. It's fine either way. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality whether it's something that people are or something that people become. And I'm pretty sick of all this "born this way" talk that just reeks of "it's not their fault" sentiments. No one has to expain their sexuality to anyone else.

QFT. Nature and nurture are not mutually exclusive.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:02 AM
1. The purpose of someone's life is up to the person. I don't think there's a "purpose of humanity." Plus, there are plenty of ways out there for gay couples to have children.


The purpose of an individual life is up to the individual and God but the purpose of the whole of humanity is to ensure its continued existence through procreation. Homosexuality is in direct opposition to that.


2. It is indeed correlated with dangerous behaviors. Crime rates are also higher in black communities, but I'm pretty sure it's not because of the amount of melanin in their skin, if you catch my drift.

The gay=black idea is false equivalence The difference is that homosexual behaviour is much more a part of a lifestyle than being black is (which is more an identity based on genetics, there are rich black people and poor black people, friendly and mean black people etc.). Homosexuality is much more homogeneous in its range of behaviour precisely because it is a lifestyle. It doesn't seem like people sleep with people of the same sex and are identical to heterosexuals in every other respect. Homosexuals tend to have much more in common with each other than with heterosexuals.


3. Saying it's morally damaging to the fabric of communities is a claim that needs proof, and is without legitimate proof in every utterance of the claim. There are also lots of different "communities" in the world. To which communities is homosexuality damaging? Not any that I belong to.

It has damaged my community. It brings sex into the minds of children who don't need to know about and don't know how to think about it. Children in primary school are now being taught about sexual behaviour in order to "accept homosexuals." It gives men and women license to act in ways which are damaging to society. No matter how hard people try, men are better at some things than women and vice versa. But homosexual lifestyles encourage men to try and live in feminine roles and for women to live in masculine ones. That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.

homogenius
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:04 AM
I don't think having feelings like that is something someone chooses. I'm no expert but I think it's like other psychological conditions. No one "chooses" to have feelings of depression or anxiety, or "chooses" to have phobias or to have eating disorders but those things can all be a result of life experiences. Those things are also more easily seen as being counterproductive to a healthy life. Just as there can be counselling and other treatments for those accepted psychological issues, there can be the same for homosexuality. We don't tell depressed people, "You feel like harming yourself? No problem, you were born that way, act on it like it's normal." We try to help them to a healthier life.

The "choice" in homosexuality is in choosing the lifestyle, choosing to act on the compulsions and choosing dangerous behaviour. Bipolar people can choose not to take their medication.

Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

:spit: Seriously :rolleyes:

moby
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:09 AM
That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0907/women-have-smaller-feet-women-feet-kitchen-demotivational-poster-1247758446.jpg

homogenius
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:10 AM
The purpose of an individual life is up to the individual and God but the purpose of the whole of humanity is to ensure its continued existence through procreation. Homosexuality is in direct opposition to that.


The gay=black idea is false equivalence The difference is that homosexual behaviour is much more a part of a lifestyle than being black is (which is more an identity based on genetics, there are rich black people and poor black people, friendly and mean black people etc.). Homosexuality is much more homogeneous in its range of behaviour precisely because it is a lifestyle. It doesn't seem like people sleep with people of the same sex and are identical to heterosexuals in every other respect. Homosexuals tend to have much more in common with each other than with heterosexuals.



It has damaged my community. It brings sex into the minds of children who don't need to know about and don't know how to think about it. Children in primary school are now being taught about sexual behaviour in order to "accept homosexuals." It gives men and women license to act in ways which are damaging to society. No matter how hard people try, men are better at some things than women and vice versa. But homosexual lifestyles encourage men to try and live in feminine roles and for women to live in masculine ones. That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.

I'm sure all the married/"straight" guys I fucked in my life would be very interested by your views on this topic.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:19 AM
ah so. it all makes sense now. you see the destruction of traditional gender roles and think homosexuality is to blame for it. well, news flash. homosexuality isn't about teaching young boys that it's okay not to know how to fix a flat tire. it's about wanting to have sex with people of the same sex. you're connecting two things that are not connected.

your views on gender roles are pretty myopic. different societies at different times throughout history have interpreted gender roles in countless different ways. have you ever taken a class on this subject or anything? you sound like you need to be exposed to other viewpoints, because gender is a lot more complicated than you think it is. there are lots of people out there who believe that the challenging of traditional gender roles is a good thing, and there's no evidence that such challenges are detrimental to society. saying that young boys not knowing how to change a lightbulb is a bad thing is an opinion, not a fact. people are afraid of change. ironically, that's one of things that never seems to change.

i mean, i just don't understand how you can't realize that your views on what "men are good at" and "what women are good at" exist because you grow up in a community that assigns certain roles to men and assigns certain roles to women. different communities assign different roles to the genders than the ones you're used to. the masculine and feminine roles you're used to are not the correct ones. the ones i believe in are not the correct ones. there are no correct ones.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:20 AM
Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.

I lied. I came back! And am I ever glad that I did.

No one knows how to fix a light bulb or stop a burglar? I've decided to take this literally and just go alone with the idea that DaMamaJama87 actually surrounds him/herself with dog fuckingly stupid people who do not know how to change lightbulbs. That would explain absolutely everything she/he's written in this thread.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:22 AM
ah so. it all makes sense now. you see the destruction of traditional gender roles and think homosexuality is to blame for it. well, news flash. homosexuality isn't about teaching young boys that it's okay not to know how to fix a flat tire. it's about wanting to have sex with people of the same sex. you're connecting two things that are not connected.

your views on gender roles are pretty myopic. different societies at different times throughout history have interpreted gender roles in countless different ways. have you ever taken a class on this subject or anything? you sound like you need to be exposed to other viewpoints, because gender is a lot more complicated than you think it is. there are lots of people out there who believe that the challenging of traditional gender roles is a good thing, and there's no evidence that such challenges are detrimental to society. saying that young boys not knowing how to change a lightbulb is a bad thing is an opinion, not a fact. people are afraid of change. ironically, that's one of things that never seems to change.
Frankly, I'm surprised that he hasn't blamed feminism yet. I guess that's next?

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:49 AM
ah so. it all makes sense now. you see the destruction of traditional gender roles and think homosexuality is to blame for it. well, news flash. homosexuality isn't about teaching young boys that it's okay not to know how to fix a flat tire. it's about wanting to have sex with people of the same sex. you're connecting two things that are not connected.

your views on gender roles are pretty myopic. different societies at different times throughout history have interpreted gender roles in countless different ways. have you ever taken a class on this subject or anything? you sound like you need to be exposed to other viewpoints, because gender is a lot more complicated than you think it is. there are lots of people out there who believe that the challenging of traditional gender roles is a good thing, and there's no evidence that such challenges are detrimental to society. saying that young boys not knowing how to change a lightbulb is a bad thing is an opinion, not a fact. people are afraid of change. ironically, that's one of things that never seems to change.

i mean, i just don't understand how you can't realize that your views on what "men are good at" and "what women are good at" exist because you grow up in a community that assigns certain roles to men and assigns certain roles to women. different communities assign different roles to the genders than the ones you're used to. the masculine and feminine roles you're used to are not the correct ones. the ones i believe in are not the correct ones. there are no correct ones.

All that just sounds like sophistry. Of course there are standard ways of differentiating men and women. Men have more physical strength, better spatial memory, quicker reflexes, larger breathing capacity, more localized brains etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. Women have better verbal memory, more fine dexterity, more connected brains, more empathy etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. All cultures have these differentiations in common. Men never stay home and take care of children while women hunt. If any society tried that, they would get outcompeted by societies that did the opposite. We organize societies based on natural laws. It's no coincidence that most societies and religions throughout history have agreed on so many things. All religions agree that homosexuality is a social ill that must be addressed.

moby
Feb 7th, 2011, 06:08 AM
All that just sounds like sophistry. Of course there are standard ways of differentiating men and women. Men have more physical strength, better spatial memory, quicker reflexes, larger breathing capacity, more localized brains etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. Women have better verbal memory, more fine dexterity, more connected brains, more empathy etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. All cultures have these differentiations in common.Do you think Serena/Kim are like men then? Because they clearly has more physical strength, quicker reflexes, larger breathing capacity than a lot of men. And given how they kills their opponents on and off court, they probably lacks empathy.

Men never stay home and take care of children while women hunt. If any society tried that, they would get outcompeted by societies that did the opposite. We organize societies based on natural laws.When was the last time "men hunted" for living in the society you live in? :lol:
Are we talking about the same "natural laws" where lionesses hunt while lions scavenge?
Is it possible for "natural laws" to cease to be relevant?
In any case, what is it about homosexuality that prevents men from hunting?

Most importantly: HOW CAN YOU SAY KIM CLIJSTERS HAS IT ALL, when her useless husband stays home with the kids while she rolls in the moolah.
Is Kim Clijsters setting an unnatural and evil example for her fans?!!!

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=428233


All religions agree that homosexuality is a social ill that must be addressed.False.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 06:16 AM
Do you think Serena/Kim are like men then? Because they clearly has more physical strength, quicker reflexes, larger breathing capacity than a lot of men. And given how they kills their opponents on and off court, they probably lacks empathy.


But compared to male tennis players, they are gentler


When was the last time "men hunted" for living in the society you live in? :lol:
Are we talking about the same "natural laws" where lionesses hunt while lions scavenge?
Is it possible for "natural laws" to cease to be relevant?
In any case, what is it about homosexuality that prevents men from hunting?


Metrosexuals don't hunt.


False.
Find me one religion that embraces it.

DaMamaJama87
Feb 7th, 2011, 06:19 AM
Most importantly:
HOW CAN YOU SAY KIM CLIJSTERS HAS IT ALL, when her useless husband stays home with the kids while she rolls in the moolah. Is Kim Clijsters setting an unnatural and evil example for her fans?!!!


No, that was Justine with her husband and we all know how that relationship turned out. Kim's husband is a professional athlete as well and Kim has said many times that family is more important to her than her than her job (tennis). That tells you where her priorities are. Kim is not trying to circumvent traditional family rules.

moby
Feb 7th, 2011, 06:24 AM
Metrosexuals don't hunt.Do you?

In particularly, do you hunt while your wife watches and cheers, excited that you're bringing enough meat to feed the family for the day?
Do you hunt ever so often, so that you can keep your family fed?
(And if you haven't got a wife, it's time to get one so you can catch up on the procreation thing. Surely you're no longer adolescent.)

No, that was Justine with her husband and we all know how that relationship turned out. Kim's husband is a professional athlete as well and Kim has said many times that family is more important to her than her than her job (tennis). That tells you where her priorities are. Kim is not trying to circumvent traditional family rules.Is? He was a journeyman b-baller who retired and got married. Now he's a stay-at-home dad, and good for him.

Apoleb
Feb 7th, 2011, 07:12 AM
egalite kicking ass in this thread. :inlove:

DaBrainlessMama doing her own thing. :worship: But is falling in the is/ought fallacy. Who cares what the "natural laws" are? There will be a time when we decide how will people look and behave.

Men never stay home and take care of children while women hunt. If any society tried that, they would get outcompeted by societies that did the opposite.:sobbing: Still living in 3500 BC, eh?

Kim is not trying to circumvent traditional family rules.

Sure, no. While her hubby stays at home raising Jada, she goes "hunting" for scalps and prize money.

moby
Feb 7th, 2011, 07:31 AM
This thing is a girl?!??

Sp!ffy
Feb 7th, 2011, 08:21 AM
No gay gene has been discovered. I think it is more about the way a person is raised. It is more nurture than nature.

Whether it is heredity or something psychological--it is definitely something that cannot be reversed and it is not something that someone can be blamed for. And don't make assumptions about something that you clearly have no personal experience talking about because I can play the same game and make the assumption that Canadians clearly are uneducated as indicated by the amount of knowledge displayed in your posts.

VivalaSeles
Feb 7th, 2011, 10:39 AM
I don't think having feelings like that is something someone chooses. I'm no expert but I think it's like other psychological conditions. No one "chooses" to have feelings of depression or anxiety, or "chooses" to have phobias or to have eating disorders but those things can all be a result of life experiences. Those things are also more easily seen as being counterproductive to a healthy life. Just as there can be counselling and other treatments for those accepted psychological issues, there can be the same for homosexuality. We don't tell depressed people, "You feel like harming yourself? No problem, you were born that way, act on it like it's normal." We try to help them to a healthier life.

The "choice" in homosexuality is in choosing the lifestyle, choosing to act on the compulsions and choosing dangerous behaviour. Bipolar people can choose not to take their medication.
Yes, you are NO expert and that shows. Experts, that is, Psychologial and Psychiatric associations have LONG stated homosexuality is NOT any kind of disease or, as you put it, psychological condition. And by the way, there is nothing un-healthy or dangerous about being a homosexual, were there not prejudiced and homophobic people [and States].

VivalaSeles
Feb 7th, 2011, 10:47 AM
It's no coincidence that most societies and religions throughout history have agreed on so many things. All religions agree that homosexuality is a social ill that must be addressed.
Yes, indeed, which is why religions, which agree on so many things, have fought each other mercilessly, killing millions and millions of people.
No, not all religions agree that homosexuality is a social ill. There are Christian churches thar are accepting of homosexuality., so get your facts straight.

VivalaSeles
Feb 7th, 2011, 10:58 AM
The purpose of an individual life is up to the individual and God but the purpose of the whole of humanity is to ensure its continued existence through procreation. Homosexuality is in direct opposition to that.
The gay=black idea is false equivalence The difference is that homosexual behaviour is much more a part of a lifestyle than being black is (which is more an identity based on genetics, there are rich black people and poor black people, friendly and mean black people etc.). Homosexuality is much more homogeneous in its range of behaviour precisely because it is a lifestyle. It doesn't seem like people sleep with people of the same sex and are identical to heterosexuals in every other respect. Homosexuals tend to have much more in common with each other than with heterosexuals.
It has damaged my community. It brings sex into the minds of children who don't need to know about and don't know how to think about it. Children in primary school are now being taught about sexual behaviour in order to "accept homosexuals." It gives men and women license to act in ways which are damaging to society. No matter how hard people try, men are better at some things than women and vice versa. But homosexual lifestyles encourage men to try and live in feminine roles and for women to live in masculine ones. That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.
1. Hello?! Is someone in there? Are you living in 2011?! Overpopulation is threatening the survival of Mankind: have you heard about it?! So if some people choose not to procreate (and homosexuals have no problem in procreating, by the way), it's beneficial rather than harmful to the existence of Mankind.

2. You know nothing whatsoever about homosexuality. Homosexuals are NOT homogeneous. Using your own words: there are rich homosexuals, poor homosexuals, mean homosexuals and good homosexuals. The range of different lifestyles, as far as homosexuals are concerned, is as diverse and as varied as with heterosexuals.

3. The connection between homosexuality and gender role reversal - THAT is SOFISTRY. There is no absolute connection whatsoever. Although there are homosexuals that defy set/traditional gender roles (no problem with that whatsoever), there are lots of homosexuals that do not.

The Dawntreader
Feb 7th, 2011, 11:21 AM
This thing is a girl?!??

I was shocked too:eek:

Then again, i'm shocked that such bigotry hasn't been banned yet. It's as though Sarah Palin is posting on TF.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Metrosexuals don't hunt.

LMAO. Best baseless generalization ever. :hysteric:

Well, it's pretty clear that you're making claims about how men and women "naturally are" without any hard science to back up these claims.

Also, reform Judaism, the United Church of Christ, Unitarianism, and Buddhism accept homosexuality, since you asked.

ampers&
Feb 7th, 2011, 01:01 PM
Nick :worship:
DaMamaJama87 :help:

I wish I could add something of more substance, but egalite has said everything that needs to be said.

rada
Feb 7th, 2011, 01:06 PM
I was shocked too:eek:

Then again, i'm shocked that such bigotry hasn't been banned yet. It's as though Sarah Palin is posting on TF.

haha that made me giggle. :)

Apoleb
Feb 7th, 2011, 01:19 PM
I just changed my light bulb. I feel like such a man.

How's everyone's hunting going? Tomorrow I'm off in the woods so I can't log in. Too many children and wives to feed.

cellophane
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:31 PM
:lol:

Dave.
Feb 7th, 2011, 02:39 PM
I don't know if that poster is being serious or just trying to get attention. Surely since he/she has been here since 2007 they'd know what kind of reaction they'd get. Either way, being a member of a women's tennis forum and supporting Kim of all players is contradictory to everything he/she has said in here.

Anyway great responses from everyone here, especially egalite (esp. his first post :worship:). I couldn't care less about the causes of homosexuality and I won't until I see the same urgency and willingness of people to find out why people are hetero.

It's a fun blog of gay people when they were kids if you take it for exactly that and nothing more.

mckyle.
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:21 PM
I'm beautiful in my way
'Cause God makes no mistakes.
I'm on the right track, baby,
I was born this way.

Kart
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:54 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.
To be fair, it causes stress because people enforce their ideals onto others.

You - for example - could alleviate your contribution by keeping your views to yourself yet you choose not to.

Which begs the question of what is making those people unhappy - their homosexuality or the behaviour of the people around them.

I actually agree with you regarding the basis of homosexuality - I wonder what people would do if they found a gay gene ... I'm sure it would not be a positive thing for everybody. In my mind it's almost certainly multifactorial, however that does not equate with it being avoidable.

WhatTheDeuce
Feb 7th, 2011, 05:56 PM
Oh. My. God. @ this thread, particularly DaMamaTarda

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 07:49 PM
I just changed my light bulb. I feel like such a man.

How's everyone's hunting going? Tomorrow I'm off in the woods so I can't log in. Too many children and wives to feed.

I put away my books, wore a dress and did some dishes, to remind myself of my place in the social order. I feel free now.

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 08:02 PM
The way DaMamaJama123234whatever is talking about gay people makes me pretty certain that (s)he has never actually interacted with a gay person in real life.

I know several gay people who hunt btw. Some for live animals, others for fabulous shoes :hearts:

P.S. Anyone who needs to have their masculinity reinforced by doing things like changing a flat tire is clearly insecure beyond repair.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 7th, 2011, 08:02 PM
She probably lives in her attic.

mykarma
Feb 7th, 2011, 08:12 PM
That actually disproves your argument. If homosexuality were genetic then identical twins should both be homosexual as they have identical genes, if one becomes homosexual and the other doesn't it proves that there was something in the environment that made the difference.



I bet there were many kids who wore their grandma's shoes and never became homosexual. These behaviours show kids testing gender boundaries or learning about gender roles, most of them never fall into homosexual behaviour as an adult which is completely different.
Scientific American
The Print Edition


Identical Twins' Genes Are Not Identical

Twins may appear to be cut from the same cloth, but their genes reveal a different pattern

By Anne Casselman | April 3, 2008 | 16


identical-twin-babies NOT-SO-IDENTICAL TWINS: They look the same but their genes may reveal some fundamental differences. Image: ©MICHAEL BLACKBURN/ISTOCKPHOTO

Identical twins are identical, right? After all, they derive from just one fertilized egg, which contains one set of genetic instructions, or genome, formed from combining the chromosomes of mother and father.

But experience shows that identical twins are rarely completely the same. Until recently, any differences between twins had largely been attributed to environmental influences (otherwise known as "nurture"), but a recent study contradicts that belief.

Geneticist Carl Bruder of the University of Alabama at Birmingham, and his colleagues closely compared the genomes of 19 sets of adult identical twins. In some cases, one twin's DNA differed from the other's at various points on their genomes. At these sites of genetic divergence, one bore a different number of copies of the same gene, a genetic state called copy number variants.

Normally people carry two copies of every gene, one inherited from each parent. "There are, however, regions in the genome that deviate from that two-copy rule, and that's where you have copy number variants," Bruder explains. These regions can carry anywhere from zero to over 14 copies of a gene.

Scientists have long used twins to study the roles of nature and nurture in human genetics and how each affects disease, behavior, and conditions, such as obesity. But Bruder's findings suggest a new way to study the genetic and environmental roots of disease.

For example, one twin in Bruder's study was missing some genes on particular chromosomes that indicated a risk of leukemia, which he indeed suffered. The other twin did not.

Bruder therefore believes that the differences in identical twins can be used to identify specific genetic regions that coincide with specific diseases. Next, he plans to examine blood samples from twin pairs in which only one suffers from asthma or psoriasis to see whether he can find gene copy number changes that relate to either of these illnesses.

The result might also call into question the many findings of previous twin studies that assumed identical twins were indeed identical, Bruder notes. "It's pretty unlikely they're going to significantly change any of the results found so far," counters Kerry Jang, a psychologist at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, who runs Canada's largest twin study. "We can adjust our models to take [genetic differences] into account in the same way we've adjusted for different environments."

The discovery of this genetic variation gives hope for an obscure but pressing issue in the case of a criminal suspect who is an identical twin. "If one twin is a suspect and the whereabouts of the other twin cannot be determined, then the jury is often left without the ability to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" in cases that rely on DNA evidence, says Frederick Bieber, a pathologist at Harvard Medical School.

"If the twin issue comes up in a criminal investigation it's possible that if there are [copy number variants] that differ between the two twins that might help sort that out," Bieber says.

Given that there are 80 pairs of identical twins in Virginia's convicted offender database alone, this might not be as small an issue as it may sound. And such genetic variation also matters to the population at large.

Bruder speculates that such variation is a natural occurrence that accumulates with age in everyone. "I believe that the genome that you're born with is not the genome that you die with—at least not for all the cells in your body," he says.

Charles Lee, a geneticist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, agrees. Genetic variations can arise after a double strand of DNA breaks when exposed to ionizing radiation or carcinogens. "It reminds us to be careful about our environment because our environment can help to change our genome," he says.

Plus, these variations may predict age-related diseases. Lee adds: "As you age … your chances for having a genomic rearrangement that causes a certain disease increases all the time."

The differences between identical twins increase as they age, because environmentally triggered changes accumulate. But twins can also begin their lives with differences, according to Bruder's study, and that calls into question their very name.

"Maybe we shouldn't call them identical twins," Harvard's Bieber says. "We should call them 'one-egg twins.'

égalité
Feb 7th, 2011, 08:16 PM
^^ LMAO :bigcry:

Aaron.
Feb 7th, 2011, 10:26 PM
This thing is a girl?!?? What does gender have to do with anything? Why are you shocked it's a girl? Girls are capable of disagreeing too I thought :shrug:

Tennisation
Feb 7th, 2011, 10:39 PM
What in the fuckery is this thread turning into? :tape: As for DaMama I don't hate u for your stupidity cuz you were born this way.

moby
Feb 8th, 2011, 12:09 AM
What does gender have to do with anything? Why are you shocked it's a girl? Girls are capable of disagreeing too I thought :shrug:Maybe. But they shouldn't. And they shouldn't speak unless asked for their opinion. :shrug:

sorceress
Feb 8th, 2011, 02:13 AM
All that just sounds like sophistry. Of course there are standard ways of differentiating men and women. Men have more physical strength, better spatial memory, quicker reflexes, larger breathing capacity, more localized brains etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. Women have better verbal memory, more fine dexterity, more connected brains, more empathy etc. All these things predispose them to be good at certain things. All cultures have these differentiations in common. Men never stay home and take care of children while women hunt. If any society tried that, they would get outcompeted by societies that did the opposite. We organize societies based on natural laws. It's no coincidence that most societies and religions throughout history have agreed on so many things. All religions agree that homosexuality is a social ill that must be addressed.
Actually, it's quite common in the animal kingdom to find the females in charge of hunting and also in control of the social foodchain.
That is to say, the female is the boss and everyone else answers to her.
Meerkats for example.
Also, and this is the kicker, one of the earlier species of human had women in charge.

Hell I can find examples in the animal kingdom where females are much larger than their male counterparts and the males must provide food in order to mate....sound bloody familiar?!

So basically, at first you were trying to use gender to hide your prejudice, then physiology, then religion and then history.
And so what does it leave you with? The fact that you can't hide behind shit - You would look less foolish if you actually straight out said you dislike gay people and progressive society.

Gay people aren't to blame for gender roles being different these days, I don't think gender was ever supposed to have roles.If anything gay people have helped people realise this.

égalité
Feb 8th, 2011, 02:20 AM
Maybe. But they shouldn't. And they shouldn't speak unless asked for their opinion. :shrug:

Traditional gender roles :worship:

Betten
Feb 8th, 2011, 07:51 AM
Maybe. But they shouldn't. And they shouldn't speak unless asked for their opinion. :shrug:

1 Timothy 2:12 'I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.'

1 Corinthians 14:34 'For they [women] are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.'

¤CharlDa¤
Feb 8th, 2011, 08:23 AM
I am now ashamed to be Canadian :sobbing:

And I'm sooooooooo going in my childhood pictures to find one to upload on there!

Stamp Paid
Feb 8th, 2011, 10:42 AM
So was this a troll or a true idiot?

debby
Feb 8th, 2011, 11:32 AM
There are things that are biological that don't "have a gene," as I said earlier.

Falling in love is not in the genes, being attracted to someone is not in these genes as well.

So being straight or being homosexual are "biological" but have nothing to do with genes.

DaMamaJama is really clueless. :tape:

Stamp Paid
Feb 8th, 2011, 12:29 PM
Falling in love is not in the genes, being attracted to someone is not in these genes as well.

So being straight or being homosexual are "biological" but have nothing to do with genes.

DaMamaJama is really clueless. :tape:I know! what are they teaching the children in Canada?
There is no one gene for gay, just like there is no one gene for alcoholism, criminal behavior, etc. Homosexuality as a human characteristic is complex, and there may be a combination of genes that might predispose someone to being gay, but just because you have the genetic predisposition for a specific set of behaviors doesnt mean that you will automatically exhibit them. Only like 30% of people can actually say that they have a genetic predisposition for any specific human behavior. Homosexuality is most probably formed by an interplay between genetic disposition and environmental factors.

And like egalite said it doesnt matter anyway, once youre gay you cant change it, and you can still live a happy and healthy life, so what difference does it make whether its biological or psychological or whatever. DaMamaJama should really read more about the topic.

Noctis
Feb 8th, 2011, 01:29 PM
Your gay than your gay
how can you born gay.

ampers&
Feb 8th, 2011, 01:35 PM
Your gay than your gay
how can you born gay.
*shudder*
*cringe*
*realizes there is a language barrier and tries not to be a grammar snob*

ivanban
Feb 8th, 2011, 01:55 PM
*shudder*
*cringe*
*realizes there is a language barrier and tries not to be a grammar snob*

IKR :o

égalité
Feb 8th, 2011, 02:44 PM
Your gay than your gay
how can you born gay.

I think you accidentally a verb.

new-york
Feb 8th, 2011, 03:02 PM
HINHINHINHIN.

mykarma
Feb 8th, 2011, 03:22 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0907/women-have-smaller-feet-women-feet-kitchen-demotivational-poster-1247758446.jpg
Why are you all still responding to damamajama? You know he/she is nothing but a troll.

Serenaluv
Feb 8th, 2011, 03:22 PM
Born gay? No, nobody is born as gay or straight, it's imo something that develops during the course of your life.

Doesn't matter if you are a feminime masculine guy or girl, that doesn't make you straight or gay. People need to stop placing retarded labels on everything and everyone.

mykarma
Feb 8th, 2011, 03:32 PM
What in the fuckery is this thread turning into? :tape: As for DaMama I don't hate u for your stupidity cuz you were born this way.
:happy:

Stamp Paid
Feb 8th, 2011, 03:42 PM
I think you accidentally a verb.:crying2:

skanky~skanketta
Feb 9th, 2011, 03:41 AM
Oops, Damamajama seems to have disappeared from this thread!

Crazy Canuck
Feb 9th, 2011, 03:54 AM
Her work here is done.

Roookie
Feb 9th, 2011, 04:07 AM
LMAO at the lyrics.

"I've heard her new album," John says. "It's amazing. The first single, 'Born This Way,' is the anthem that's going to obliterate 'I Will Survive.' I can't think of how huge it's going to be." - Elton John

:hysteric:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/elton-john-gives-billy-joel-tough-love-in-new-rolling-stone-cover-story-20110202

Mashabator
Feb 9th, 2011, 04:26 AM
For me, it doesnt matter if people are gay because of how they are brought up, or if they are born that way. If people only realise its not a choice, then thats fine with me :)

Pops Maellard
Feb 9th, 2011, 04:33 AM
For me, it doesnt matter if people are gay because of how they are brought up, or if they are born that way. If people only realise its not a choice, then thats fine with me :)
My thoughts exactly. ;)

mckyle.
Feb 9th, 2011, 04:38 AM
LMAO at the lyrics.

"I've heard her new album," John says. "It's amazing. The first single, 'Born This Way,' is the anthem that's going to obliterate 'I Will Survive.' I can't think of how huge it's going to be." - Elton John

:hysteric:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/elton-john-gives-billy-joel-tough-love-in-new-rolling-stone-cover-story-20110202

???

Stamp Paid
Feb 9th, 2011, 04:39 AM
LMAO at the lyrics.

"I've heard her new album," John says. "It's amazing. The first single, 'Born This Way,' is the anthem that's going to obliterate 'I Will Survive.' I can't think of how huge it's going to be." - Elton John

:hysteric:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/elton-john-gives-billy-joel-tough-love-in-new-rolling-stone-cover-story-20110202Fake bitch :lol:

Darop.
Feb 9th, 2011, 07:45 PM
Thanks stupid blog for feeding the stereotype that homosexuals men are extremely effeminate!!! :yeah: :weirdo:

Darop.
Feb 9th, 2011, 07:48 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.


:haha:

K-Dog
Feb 10th, 2011, 08:37 AM
Ok. I'm gay first and foremost. It was definitely not a choice I made. I dated girls and was engaged to one for almost a year. The whole time, I knew that I didn't feel 100% comfortable with it and I was only doing it to remain socially acceptable, or what I thought at that time was "socially acceptable."

To the whole biological/genetic/nature vs. nuture debate. I have a degree in Nutritional Sciences from the University of Wisconsin (if you don't know much about it, look it up. it's an awesome school). I am currently pursuing my PharmD at the same school. Needless to say, I've heard a lot about this topic in my coursework (Psych, biochem, genetics, biology), and if anyone has ever been to my university, we have a large and vocal LGBT community.

The notion that there is a "homosexual/sexuality" gene is a valid one. But is it a gene that is always on or environmentally regulated? The environment and the psychological environment plays a huge role in gene transcription and regulation. Look at how stress hormones are produced under varying circumstances. More research needs to be done in order to fully understand the "sexuality" gene. The brain is really the final frontier for biologists and its complexities have made it incredibly difficult to understand. There have been studies showing that mood and psychological disorders are heritable traits. If sexuality is psychological (which I believe it is), then maybe the more researchers look into this, the more biological evidence they'll find. Psychology is biological. Chemicals and genes regulate our mood and our personality. But the experiences and conditions we are put in affect our biology more than we think.

Sexuality is not sex-linked. I believe that is a Mendelian trait, and could be expressed as a semidominant/heterozygous when one examines the alleles behind all of it. If you get two dominant sexuality alleles, you're straight. If you are a heterozygote, you are bisexual or have some sort of attraction to both sexes. And if you have two recessive alleles, then you are more like to be homosexual. But that's just purely speculation on my part. Which chromosome these genes are located on, I have no clue. And how they are regulated and expressed is beyond me and the researchers as well.

Now, would I have come out say if I was in an environment where there weren't a lot of other LGBT around me? Idk for sure. All I know if that once I hit puberty, I knew I was attracted to men. So it wasn't a matter of me being gay or not. It was a matter of me being open about it. I was raised by conservative parents and by an esp homophobic father. Definitely was not going to come out then. It took me until I turned 23 and my 5th year of higher education to realize it and be open about it. Since then, my sexuality has been so easy and understandable for me. I am definitely way more sexually attracted to men and can identify with them on a personal level so much easier. Trust me, I did not choose to be gay. I fought it for years. While I like who I am, I do think that being straight would be an easier path. The whole human rights thing wouldn't directly affect me, having children would be naturally easier, and there would be more potential partners to choose from.

So for all those people that don't understand homosexuality, please don't make assumptions about it. Until you've walked in the same shoes as a homosexual, you have NO idea what you're talking about. What your parents and religion taught you is bullshit. I will never claim to know what it is like to be a non-white person and I expect the same from straight people in regards to me.

K-Dog
Feb 10th, 2011, 07:14 PM
I would also like to add that it sexuality probably stems from multiple genes. Their expression affects one another and leads to the phenotypic expression of sexuality. Gene-gene and gene-environment interactions are probably in play here.

Moveyourfeet
Feb 11th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Born gay? No, nobody is born as gay or straight, it's imo something that develops during the course of your life.

Why would you assert so assuredly something that you don't know to be true?

Moveyourfeet
Feb 11th, 2011, 04:35 AM
DaMamaJama: Your signature says ""All my life I've had to fight. It's just another fight I'm going to have to learn how to win, that's all. I'm just going to have to keep smiling." "

Ironically, this is the exact attitude I have whenever I come across people like you . You hide your prejudice under the guise of 'the children', family values, good of society, sanctity of marriage, or what the buzzword du jour is.
The truth is you are painfully ignorant. You are also uneducated in basic genetics (not unlike many other religious homophobes)

FYI, there are very few human phenotypic traits that are determined by a single gene.
Also there's a study that showed a higher concordance of homosexuality among monozygotic twin siblings than dizygotic twin siblings and then non-twin siblings.
100% concordance is not necessary to show the genetic basis of a trait.

Not that you'd understand any of that. Just read a book before you talk shit.

Optima
Feb 11th, 2011, 05:21 AM
The blog isn't making an argument that these kids were born this way. It's just showing pictures of fabulous gay people who were fabulous even as little kids :D

And what almost everyone fails to realize is that where it's nature or nurture or both doesn't matter. It's fine either way. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality whether it's something that people are or something that people become. And I'm pretty sick of all this "born this way" talk that just reeks of "it's not their fault" sentiments. No one has to expain their sexuality to anyone else.

But just for the record, the lack of a gay gene doesn't mean it's not biological. Not everything that's biologically determined "has a gene."

THIS :worship: Fucking THIS.

So Disrespectful
Feb 11th, 2011, 07:49 AM
DaMamaJama: Your signature says ""All my life I've had to fight. It's just another fight I'm going to have to learn how to win, that's all. I'm just going to have to keep smiling." "

Ironically, this is the exact attitude I have whenever I come across people like you . You hide your prejudice under the guise of 'the children', family values, good of society, sanctity of marriage, or what the buzzword du jour is.
The truth is you are painfully ignorant. You are also uneducated in basic genetics (not unlike many other religious homophobes)

FYI, there are very few human phenotypic traits that are determined by a single gene.
Also there's a study that showed a higher concordance of homosexuality among monozygotic twin siblings than dizygotic twin siblings and then non-twin siblings.
100% concordance is not necessary to show the genetic basis of a trait.

Not that you'd understand any of that. Just read a book before you talk shit.

No, THISSSS!

Max565
Feb 11th, 2011, 10:04 AM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

you're a fucking disgrace to mankind.

jefrilibra
Feb 11th, 2011, 11:19 AM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

This is the most atrocious thing Ive read on this board. And I thought Vikapower on TF was bad.

So Disrespectful
Feb 11th, 2011, 01:06 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

1) You're right. There aren't enough breeders in the world. :rolleyes:
2) The mental stress is caused by people like you.
3) Gay men cannot donate blood due to outdated and ignorant precedent. There are more HIV positive heterosexuals than there are homosexuals.

Singleniacki
Feb 12th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Homosexuality is inbuilt. Absolutely 0% to do with how your raised.
I'll fight tooth and nail for the Nature argument, because i believe full-heartedly its true.

How can people grow up in a family of all heterosexual boys, a family full of homophobia, a society where you are assumed to be straight, or within a culture in which homosexuality it considered a crime punishable by death and still end up being homosexual?

Richie's
Feb 12th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Answer to the thead name: No one can be born gay.

Singleniacki
Feb 12th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

Fuck. Me. Dead.

:sobbing:

Singleniacki
Feb 12th, 2011, 12:26 PM
It has damaged my community. It brings sex into the minds of children who don't need to know about and don't know how to think about it. Children in primary school are now being taught about sexual behaviour in order to "accept homosexuals." It gives men and women license to act in ways which are damaging to society. No matter how hard people try, men are better at some things than women and vice versa. But homosexual lifestyles encourage men to try and live in feminine roles and for women to live in masculine ones. That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.

This is even worse :sobbing::o

Yes, yes it is. Its people like you who are a damage to society.

Nicolás89
Feb 12th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

This is the most stupid post I've read in a very long time. It's so stupid I can't even put myself through the stress of refute it.

hablo
Feb 12th, 2011, 05:07 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

The purpose of an individual life is up to the individual and God but the purpose of the whole of humanity is to ensure its continued existence through procreation. Homosexuality is in direct opposition to that.


The gay=black idea is false equivalence The difference is that homosexual behaviour is much more a part of a lifestyle than being black is (which is more an identity based on genetics, there are rich black people and poor black people, friendly and mean black people etc.). Homosexuality is much more homogeneous in its range of behaviour precisely because it is a lifestyle. It doesn't seem like people sleep with people of the same sex and are identical to heterosexuals in every other respect. Homosexuals tend to have much more in common with each other than with heterosexuals.



It has damaged my community. It brings sex into the minds of children who don't need to know about and don't know how to think about it. Children in primary school are now being taught about sexual behaviour in order to "accept homosexuals." It gives men and women license to act in ways which are damaging to society. No matter how hard people try, men are better at some things than women and vice versa. But homosexual lifestyles encourage men to try and live in feminine roles and for women to live in masculine ones. That makes it more difficult for regular families to teach their children those values, now we have generations of children who are confused about what men are good at and should do and what women are good at and should do. Children get neglected because women are trying to be the breadwinner, no one knows how to fix a lightbulb or stop a burglar because men are too busy being metrosexual. The damage is obvious.

Homophobic and sexist... Oh joy! :speakles:

hablo
Feb 12th, 2011, 05:19 PM
1 Timothy 2:12 'I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.'

1 Corinthians 14:34 'For they [women] are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.'

:hysteric:

I know! what are they teaching the children in Canada?


Take that back! She didn't learn that in school (not in public school anyway... :tape: ). :o:ras:

Paneru
Feb 12th, 2011, 05:49 PM
It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity

And here I thought the purpose of humanity was to exemplify the Glory of God.

BTW, my mom can't have anymore kids, should she and my dad now divorce as their purpose for humanity has been served?
How about those whom never have kids or never have sex, what is then their purpose for being on earth since they will not be "coupling for procreation"?

I guess humanity must be about "multiplying" despite the being "fruitful" part or the part of
it "not being good for man to be alone". And that having no children means what? You were a mistake?
Wasn't aware that the purpose for humanity was that every human procreate.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 12th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Answer to the thead name: No one can be born gay.

Thanks for clearing that up for us. Admins, could you please close the thread now?

debby
Feb 12th, 2011, 10:26 PM
Homosexuality can also be considered to have detrimental effects. It prevents coupling for procreation which is the purpose of humanity, it creates undue mental stress on the individual that can cause him/her to even commit suicide, it is highly correlated with other dangerous behaviours (which is why gay men cannot donate blood), it is morally damaging to the social fabric of a community and finally it creates many unhappy people.

There are cures out there but political correctness makes it difficult to implement them.

You should not worry about this.

Lol @ that main argument from homophobic people "but we are going to disappear if everyone is gay" , it is false because :

1/ A minority is gay or lesbian, most of people are straight
2/ Even gay and lesbian people want to have kids.
3/ A lesbian girl can agree with a gay guy to have kids only to be parents.

and so on....

so that main argument is BS, there are always have been gay/lesbian ppl forever, even in 1600 or something (I am too tired, but could someone find me some famous gay authors, writers, politics who were gay/lesbian before 1950 let's say ?) ! my dog is in love with my cat, they are both males, my dog wants to fuck him, anyway it is not only a "human" thing, it is not "dangerous behaviour", it happens, that's nature !!

ViceUltramontain
Feb 12th, 2011, 11:41 PM
You should not worry about this.

Lol @ that main argument from homophobic people "but we are going to disappear if everyone is gay" , it is false because :

1/ A minority is gay or lesbian, most of people are straight
2/ Even gay and lesbian people want to have kids.
3/ A lesbian girl can agree with a gay guy to have kids only to be parents.

and so on....

so that main argument is BS, there are always have been gay/lesbian ppl forever, even in 1600 or something (I am too tired, but could someone find me some famous gay authors, writers, politics who were gay/lesbian before 1950 let's say ?) ! my dog is in love with my cat, they are both males, my dog wants to fuck him, anyway it is not only a "human" thing, it is not "dangerous behaviour", it happens, that's nature !!

Here's a list of some famous gays :

Colette
Marguerite Yourcenar
Virginia Woolf
Françoise Sagan
Alexander the Great
King Louis the XIIIth of France
King Richard the Lionheart
Erasmus
Pierre de Coubertin
Lawrence of Arabia
Leonardo Da Vinci
Michelangelo
Salvador Dali
Miguel de Cervantes
Francis Bacon
Paul Verlaine
Arthur Rimbaud
Oscar Wilde
Rudyard Kipling
Thomas Mann
Federico Garcia Lorca
Truman Capote
Franz Schubert
Luis Bunuel
Luchino Visconti
James Dean
Montgomery Clift
Greg Louganis
Freddy Mercury
Christian Dior
Elton John
Yves Saint Laurent
Ian McKellen

Etc, etc... only very dangerous people who have almost destroyed humanity :rolleyes:

Mary Cherry.
Feb 12th, 2011, 11:55 PM
I don't really have an opinion either way but damn, that song is hella catchy.

Mashabator
Feb 13th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Homosexuality is inbuilt. Absolutely 0% to do with how your raised.
I'll fight tooth and nail for the Nature argument, because i believe full-heartedly its true.

How can people grow up in a family of all heterosexual boys, a family full of homophobia, a society where you are assumed to be straight, or within a culture in which homosexuality it considered a crime punishable by death and still end up being homosexual?

Because maybe its different for everyone? maybe we are born like this, or maybe its the way we are raised, or maybe its a mixture of the two, theres no proof suggesting either.

K-Dog
Feb 13th, 2011, 04:38 PM
Because maybe its different for everyone? maybe we are born like this, or maybe its the way we are raised, or maybe its a mixture of the two, theres no proof suggesting either.

Absolutely agree. Anyone who says that environment has no play in genetics doesn't really understand how the science behind it operates.

I was born this way, but it took me 23 years to realize what was really going on with me. For me, genes and environment are both a huge part of the reason I am the way I am.