PDA

View Full Version : Sofa-coaching: Match Review and Discussions 2011 Edition


peanuts
Feb 4th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Hey all! Wiwa and I think it would be nice if we have a thread to discuss and review Flavia's matches (singles/doubles). You know strategy, tactics and such. (Yes, she actually employs a strategy in her matches. :p) Stuff you think she should have done better or stuff you think she has done right.

(Now, wiwa you better come in here or I would be just talking to myself alone in here. :o :help:)

wiwa
Feb 4th, 2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah, Thank you, peanuts :)

I know it from soccer/football in Germany: We have 82 million coaches in front of the TV. That's why we are so good and beat all other nations.:bounce: (Sometimes we don't beat Italy :fiery: )

So let's try to apply some of this magic to Flavia, no? ;):secret::tennis:

Of course not everyone can be right. I think it's gonna be fun anyway :)

peanuts
Feb 4th, 2011, 01:44 PM
You should get all the credit. It's your idea. Sofa-coaching. :lol: Football fans are such a crazy bunch. :p

Yeah, hopefully we'll have some fun discussions about Flavia's tennis here. In honor of this thread, I'll get my lazy ass to work on uploading to YouTube her AO match against Peer and the doubles semis. ;) I still haven't seen how she managed that comeback against Peer. :o

wiwa
Feb 4th, 2011, 02:36 PM
Good idea to put Flavias matches into YouTube. Although my feeling is, shouldn't we focus mainly on the most recent matches? Old matches are like an old newspapers. We can refer back to them when needed. What do you think?

peanuts
Feb 4th, 2011, 03:03 PM
Yep definitely focus more on newer matches. The thoughts from watching the match is easier to recall. :yeah: Speaking of new Flavia matches...she's playing her Fed Cup match vs Sam tomorrow. Bet365 will be streaming it. :woohoo: Hope you can watch it too.

And yeah more people can see her matches if it's also uploaded on YouTube so I try to upload what I can. :D

FORZA SARITA
Feb 4th, 2011, 03:10 PM
plz upload all the videos you have :inlove:

peanuts
Feb 4th, 2011, 04:50 PM
^I will soon. :) Meanwhile, I'll be posting in the videos thread past matches that I have already uploaded back then in youtube. Just in case you guys are interested in watching them again. ;)

peanuts
Feb 6th, 2011, 02:47 AM
Fed Cup: Flavia beats Sam 7-6, 6-7, 6-3

I thought Flavia should have taken this in straight sets. She was two points away in that tiebreak but made a bad miss on an easy putaway to give Sam the slight opening. Overall, I didn't think she played that well, made some easy miss on volleys by being a little too casual and made a handful of UEs on easy putaways. One positive though is to see Flavia being more aggressive--taking her chances on the net whenever she gets a short ball.

This is the first time I've seen them play against each other and it's amazing to see how well Flavia's game matches up against Sam. Flavia may not be that tall but that kick serve goes right into her strongest shot, the backhand. I thought she was also reading Sam's serve quite well. And more often Sam is forced to hit her backhand and slice it as Flavia was able to engage her in long crosscourt backhand rallies. What I find most impressive though is how well Flavia was able to put Sam in the most awkward positions on a lot of rallies. Sam is not the best mover out there especially when she's pulled wide so I thought this was a good strategy from Flavia.

peanuts
Feb 6th, 2011, 05:15 AM
Fed Cup: Flavietta def. Groth 6-3, 6-2 and seals the tie for Italia

Not much to say on this one. Flavia was too consistent for Groth. From time to time, when Flavia go the chance to take the initiative in the rallies she managed to squeezed in a few down the line forehand winners and also whack away some backhand ROS that got me :bigclap:. Overall though Flavia did not need to do much as Groth more often than not will hit an UE even during the most neutral rallies.

marinaRU
Feb 6th, 2011, 05:29 AM
I missed it all ....

wiwa
Feb 6th, 2011, 03:48 PM
Fed Cup: Flavia beats Sam 7-6, 6-7, 6-3

I thought Flavia should have taken this in straight sets. She was two points away in that tiebreak but made a bad miss on an easy putaway to give Sam the slight opening. Overall, I didn't think she played that well, made some easy miss on volleys by being a little too casual and made a handful of UEs on easy putaways. One positive though is to see Flavia being more aggressive--taking her chances on the net whenever she gets a short ball.

This is the first time I've seen them play against each other and it's amazing to see how well Flavia's game matches up against Sam. Flavia may not be that tall but that kick serve goes right into her strongest shot, the backhand. I thought she was also reading Sam's serve quite well. And more often Sam is forced to hit her backhand and slice it as Flavia was able to engage her in long crosscourt backhand rallies. What I find most impressive though is how well Flavia was able to put Sam in the most awkward positions on a lot of rallies. Sam is not the best mover out there especially when she's pulled wide so I thought this was a good strategy from Flavia.
yeah she said the same in her post match interview. The first part she didn't say ;)

Glad that she found her angle game this time. Against Kvitova she always got counterattacked. I was a little afraid that the same could happen against Groth :o

peanuts
Feb 7th, 2011, 03:02 AM
^I haven't read her post match interview. Just the post match on-court interview where she said that she loves to play for her country--which we all already know. :lol:

Nah Groth doesn't have the controlled aggression nor the ball-bashing flair of Kvitova. This is the first time I've seen her play and my goodness she's a UE machine. :tape: Good serve but easily loses the plot once you get her on neutral rallies. Besides, Kvitova is a lefty so it's quite tricky for anyone to play against her.

wiwa
Feb 15th, 2011, 04:25 PM
according to Zamboni, Penne is now #1 in Doubles. @Peanuts, your Avatar could be outdated soon ;)

Though, it was pretty close. According to the scoreboard, Schiavetta served strong but played the rest awfull. They'll probably not win over Peschke/Srebotnik (nor will they ever win the Olympic games, I guess).

peanuts
Feb 16th, 2011, 03:20 AM
^I know! :lol: Still it says part of no.1 doubles team so it's still technically correct since they are indeed the no.1 team. Haha!

Fantasy Hero
Feb 21st, 2011, 11:10 AM
nice idea ;)

peanuts
Feb 22nd, 2011, 04:09 AM
^Thanks! ;)

Time to post some match reviews I've been postponing to write about...

Dubai QF: Flavia def Kleybanova 6-2, 6-0

As the scoreline suggests, this is pretty much a one-sided affair. Alisa is another player who is a good match up for Flavia as the 4-0 H2H suggests. :p Being a lumbering big girl, most players' strategy against Alisa is to pull her wide on rallies. Amazingly enough, she's adept at handling this. She moves quite well when she's pulled wide and manages to hit sick cross court angles from awkward positions on the baseline time and time again. Flavia is one of the few players that I've seen who refuses to get drag into this needless cross court rallies against her. Despite the pace of shot, she manages to redirect the ball deep in the middle of the court giving Alisa a smaller space to go for the angles. I don't know how to explain it but maybe it's because Flavia's better shot is her down the line backhand so it's much easier for her do this repeatedly against Alisa. :shrug:

This is a very good win for Flavia against one of her pigeons, much better than her last dragged out FC match against Stosur. It might have helped that Alisa was dreadful in that second set (could barely hit three consecutive shots into the court :tape: ) but I still thought Flavia did well to counter the pace early on, made some amazing ROS (mostly on 2nd serves :p) and stayed focused throughout. No epic mental collapse this time. :p

peanuts
Feb 22nd, 2011, 04:50 AM
Dubai SF: Sveta continues her pwnage of Flavia 6-4, 6-4

Well this one's a little disappointing. Flavia had early breaks in both sets but couldn't hold serve to build a substantial lead. I guess there is a reason why she has never won against Kuzy in 5 matches. :sobbing: For some reason, I noticed that Flavia doesn't seem to like Sveta's topspin shots. She shank some standard shots in the baseline and even her best shot the backhand down line is not as effective on the rallies. While Sveta is obviously the bigger hitter of the two, I also noticed she seemed to love the pace of shot coming from Flavia wherein she repeatedly managed to hit some amazing winners and was often able to wrong-foot Flavia on the baseline.

Flavia did try to impose her new aggressive game plan of finishing points early by going to the net. I just thought she was overdoing it a little and Sveta had started to get a good read on her approach shots giving her more difficult volleys to hit. :shrug: Still there were some lovely net to baseline exchanges and a wily forehand dropshot from Flavia so those were all pretty awesome to watch. :hearts:

wiwa
Feb 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM
thanks Karla. I think there was a similarity between both matches - the record ;) And both Alisa and Flavia made the same mistake. Press press press against their superior. Alisa mis-hit all her winners, FLavia was too overt at the net. I feel they should have changed pace for a while.

One more Flavia-thing, she hits her fh harder than ever. Maybe it made her muscles grow, but I feel she's at her limit there. I liked the tactical forehands, as they make the gameplay look smoother and more elegant to me.

peanuts
Feb 22nd, 2011, 11:00 AM
^Yep it featured two bad match-ups. ;) I think she was trying to play too aggressively so she won't get outhit on the baseline. The problem with this is that her serve wasn't clicking that day. Sveta scored a lot of free points on her ROS and even if they get on a rally, Flavia was usually put on a defensive position. As for trying a change of pace/more variation, it's not so easy to do this when you are facing a barrage of well-hit shots laced with topspin. The time is taken away from you to put that amount of control on the ball. Though maybe she could have hit a few moonballs here and there just to disrupt Sveta's rhythm. ;)

Interesting observation...Fransceso also pointed out that Flavia seemed to be hitting with more topspin. This may well be the case and would also explain why she's able to hit harder. Unfortunately, Sveta loves the pace that was coming to her and was able to defend quite well from the baseline. Against the players that troubles her, this always seemed to be where Flavia gets beaten. The ceiling in her game as one analyst had said before (Tignor?) shows that her shots are not big enough to get past these players and when forced to go toe-to-toe in the rallies she more often than not ends up losing.

BTW, sorry if I sounded a little dire on the weaknesses of Flavia's game. :lol: They don't really matter too much to me as I love how fluid her shots look and she does play a pretty looking game. :hearts: And I do think she can beat this kind of players but only if she maintains a very high level of play and if her opponent is missing more than usual. :p

wiwa
Feb 22nd, 2011, 02:12 PM
Yeah, a fully agree to your last statement. Plus she plays very consistent over a season. She will win against most of the lower-ranked players on a regular and solid basis. Unlike Jankovic ...

Karla, don't mind the dire. That's what this thread is for. We can do it here so we don't spoil the cheering thread ;)

how could Flavia possibly slow-down the game of her opponent?:
- moonballs: Flavia has.
- Slice shots: Flavia hasn't !!!
- play sharp and short angles with top-spin like Francesca: Flavia doesn't.
- overpower the opponent: Flavia weighs ten pounds less then most of her opponents.

the ceiling, as Tignor mentioned:
- she doesn't read the matches as well as, say, Beba, Clijsters, Wozniacki
- her only Plan B is 'fight'

I think she won't fix any of these things in her last years. Let's see how far her net game will carry her.

Fantasy Hero
Feb 23rd, 2011, 09:21 AM
i don't agree with you all the line because Flavia can overpower her opponent using her smart mixture of different shots. H
er best way to slowdown the game usually is that loopy cross court FH that pushes the contender some meters far from the baseline, it's not a moonball but it works well on all surfaces and gives a lot of trouble to most of the girls (as usually FH is the weak side).
Another big weapon to change the rally is her dropshot which is quite effective on both sides and usually it's well hidden, you are right, she lacks of a good slice -even though she owns a quite good chop FH- and her BH has no top spin, but she fix that with her great anticipation.

about the way to prepare matches i'm again thinking differently from you, Flavia rarely flops a match tactically, or at least she rarelly doesn't know what to do (then you know, the other player can play too good to let her use her skills on court).
Flavia builds her wins on a solid game based on few schemes, pretty easy if you want, but as she lacks of many killing shots (IMO she has only one: BH down the line) so she has to work a lot on a rally to get into the ideal position to make a winner, cuz she cannot ask herself to hit FH winners from outside the court a la Sveta.
She has a great ability, she can use well the power of the shots she gets back to her, that's why she has positive records (or at least she can play close matches) against hard hitters like Sam, Masha, Venus, but as she lacks of these killing shots -or as you said she weights too few to overpower the opponent- she struggles with players with great defensive play -not just Caro, but Sveta and Fran too- as her "spider net", her complex way to get to the right position for a peace winner, seems useless and she often finish the rally with a UE (usually with FH as asks too much to it).

I think this new net game is a nice idea to shorter her matches, mostly in early rounds so that she can be fresher (and so run more, as she needs to run a lot against top players and she knows that, she can't dictate her game against all top 15) deeper in the draw. I think she needs some monthes to make this new gameeffective against the top names, but it is for sure a smart move -Flavia is one of the best players at net atm- and probably it can be a wise decision for Wimbly (and for the Olympic games)

peanuts
Feb 23rd, 2011, 03:05 PM
Nice to see FH joining the discussion here! :bigclap: BTW, what's your name? It's weird to call you FH. :lol: Wiwa, tell us your name too. ;)

Very interesting point of view guys. :yeah:

First I definitely haven't seen Flavia hit a good slice especially on her BH so I have to agree on you with that one.

FH, you make a good point on Flavia being able to overpower with a mix of good shots but I think what we're trying to point out here is that on raw pace alone Flavia loses against the big hitters. While she's perfectly capable of hitting clean winners, it's just much more difficult for her to end a neutral rally to her favor especially against good movers (as you have also rightly pointed out). BTW, I actually don't consider Sveta as a good mover. She has poor footwork but she is quite athletic so she can get a lot of balls back from a defensive position.

I actually think Flavia has good tactics but I've seen her is some matches where she seemed to be completely lost mentally. When this happens she either goes on hit it harder mode or retrieve like hell mode. :lol:

As for the net game, this is the definitely the right approach not only because she's good at the net and it's working for her but also because she is not getting any younger. This game plan is easier on her body as she has to play shorter points and doesn't need to get into needless rallies against wall-like players.

Fantasy Hero
Feb 23rd, 2011, 07:36 PM
Nice to know you ;) i'm Gaspa

wiwa
Mar 15th, 2011, 09:30 PM
^Gaspa :wavey:
In an earlier post I mixed up your name with someone who is called Giulio. Sorry for that.

Your metaphor of spider web is brilliant. TBH, I don't know much about creating points on the court. AFAIR the match agqainst Caro in Dubai was even a bit different. Here's the link again:

I already found it!...good vision, even if Flakira was demolished :(

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9WORTIE3 Woz-Pen set1
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J883T821 Woz-Pen set2
There were four successful shots of Flavia that I had never seen her play before (maybe because she was desperated this time):
1. a bh cross stop from the base line, it was the very first game I believe :drool:
2. a running fh down the line, hit flat without spin, 3rd or 4th game of 2nd set :hearts::hearts:
3. a short cross top spin fh :drool:
4. a short cross top spin bh :drool:

Why did she lose anyway?
In the 1st set she lost her momentum at 2:1 40:15, because she became a sort of lax; her body language was almost arrogant - and so she spoiled the next point. Caro immediatly punished Flavia for this lapse, like she always does. Or better - she terminated her.
Why? Because Flavias "improved" top spin fh was too short many times. That's were ~20 of Caros 30 winners came from.
Also Caro had an improved game plan. She avoided rallyes, always played left-right so that Flavia couldn't nail her at a corner like in their previous match. Caros left-right game led to another ~10 winners. Flavia could create point only when her serve was perfect, which was too rarely the case.

peanuts
Mar 16th, 2011, 04:50 AM
^Thanks for that review Willy! (It's your name right? ;)) Gaspa. :wavey: Gaspa is a :cool: sounding name.

I haven't seen the entire match, just a handful of games in the first set. Flavia seemed to have wasted a lot of game points. :( I'll watch the entire match and look out for those things you've mentioned and will post more on what I think. ;)

wiwa
Mar 16th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Flavia seemed to have wasted a lot of game points. :( I'll watch the entire match ... it was the 4th game of the 1st set (2:1 Flavia to serve). Watch the 4th game of the 2nd set also. I think these two games were real highlights.

peanuts
Mar 19th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Finally got to watch Flavia vs Caro @ Dubai match...Some match notes I took...

Flavia actually played quite well especially in the first few games. Lovely forehand dropshot at 2-1. :hearts: But she just can't seem to string together consecutive pts when they're at deuce (prime example is the epic game @ 2-1, 1st set). Flavia would play well to get up to Ad and on the next point she would get drawn into a baseline rally in which she gets push back far behind the baseline and would ultimately lose the point. On times that she tried to end the point immediately, she more often than not ends up with an UE. With someone as consistent in Caro, you just can't give too many points away as Caro would rarely missed on standard rallies. I really think she should have been more steady and patient in working her way through on each point during these tight moments. Easier said than done of course. :p In the end Caro did too well in what she does best which is to outsteady her opponents and drive them crazy with her wall-like consisteny. :lol:

Also as correctly pointed out by someone at GM, Caro got away with a lot winners in this match because Flavia is not as fast (I don't wanna say slow :p) in getting to the ball. When she manages to get to the ball she doesn't have enough time to hit a good defensive shot, giving Caro a lot of short balls to attack. Flavia actually looks faster than she actually is. She anticipates well, is light on her feet and has good footwork in getting into the right hitting position but she is no Myskina when it comes to footspeed.

wiwa
Mar 19th, 2011, 07:39 PM
^ wow, your match comment reads completely different from mine. I guess only a tennis player can write it like this, but it is interesting. As a humble spectator I can't see all these details but yeah they definitly are an essential part of the composition. (Not sure if one may call tennis a composition)

Last year someone in this forum said that Flavia isn't as fast anymore as she was in 2009, so your observation goes in the same direction.

btw, you copied my error: the match was in Doha not in Dubai :lol:

peanuts
Mar 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM
^I do agree with some of your observations. IIRC, she had a low % of 1st serve for this match. In the games where she wasted game pts, Caro was able to move her around the court like a wiper (I take it this what you mean by left-right play?) because Flavia is giving her a lot of short serves to attack. Caro would hit a deep return which then puts Flavia immediately into defense mode. Also, Flavia hitting short FHs certainly did not help her but this is usually the result of her getting pushed around the baseline. Not enough time to take a good swing at the ball. :help:

As for Flavia's body language, I noticed she looked tired even before the match started. :awww: I supposed this is not too surprising considering how many matches she had played since AO.

Oh yeah it's in Doha. :oh: I keep mixing up those two. :o

chmath
Mar 19th, 2011, 09:35 PM
What an absolutely fabulous analysis by both! For what it's worth, I really do feel that our girl is a complete rhythm player and fatigue is definitely beginning to kick in when the volume of matches comes thick and fast. She looked in absolutely fantastic shape during the Australian, kudos the fact that she took Kvitova to three sets and could have actually won that match under circumstances, backed it up with two fabulous performances in the FedCup, marvelous run in Dubai, not bad in Doha and then, after two weeks off, she appeared to be all out of sync- kudos the quick doubles and singles losses. The flip side to that is that she ought to have been fresh, but clearly, that didn't appear to be the case. Or perhaps some kind of niggling injury, who knows??

Speed is definitely an issue, her anticipation has always been exceptional and so has her wit, but well unfortunately now she is set up to be well and truly hit off the court by certain types of players. Others, into whose head she can get, remain vulnerable... Still, I expect a good 2011 and it will be very interesting to see her on clay...

peanuts
Mar 21st, 2011, 05:44 AM
^Thanks Chris! ;) Good point on Flavia being a rhythm player. I think the quick losses in IW could be attributed partly to lack of match play...and her horrible record in there. :lol: There might also be the shoulder issue which I hope would be ok by Miami--another event in which she has a horrible record. Well at least in singles she does. ;) She and Gisela have the title to defend there so it's time to focus and step up.

What's concerning about the speed issue is that Caro (it's no secret) has never been known to be a big hitter yet she was able to rack up a wicked amount of winners against Flavia. :help:

Zamboni
Mar 21st, 2011, 08:40 AM
Flavia is definitely a rhythm player. But the scary thing about that is that when she plays too much, she breaks down (like against Caro). That's a limbo ;)

About her footwork - she's not the fastest player on tour, but I don't think she's that slow either. She's pretty smart on the court, has good positioning, so that saves her in most matches. Except when she gets tired, footwork is the first thing to break down and IMO that constitutes the horrible scoreline.


I'm just waiting to get on clay though. I wanna see how the new, more offensive gamestyle translates there.

Fantasy Hero
Mar 21st, 2011, 10:11 AM
i'm looking forward the same thing as Linda, a more aggressive game on clay can be both heaven and hell. We all know that clay is the perfect enemy to the net dash players, but as we saw last year MJMS could make a big damage with her various game and i think this could work as well with flavia, mostly because if she can manage to make it work well she can save more energies in the first rounds and be fresher when it matters :p

peanuts
Mar 21st, 2011, 10:38 AM
Most rhythm players suffers the same problem as Flavia. It helps though if you're as young and sturdy as Caro so you can avoid injuries.

Honestly, I'm not looking forward to the aggressive net game on clay. I do hope I'm wrong about this but for me if her first serve is off and she insists on this game plan she is toast on the net. :help: MJMS got this kind of game going because she has a good serve especially with that lefty angle. Flavia has a well-placed first serve but she obviously does not have this lefty advantage. IIRC, MJMS also has pretty flat strokes so her approach shots does not sit up. Flavia hits with more spin especially on the FH side and on clay her shots will just bounce higher giving her opponents enough time to make a passing shot. With standard rallies on clay, it's also not that easy to pull your opponents wide to get a short reply for an approach shot. Even if you do, they have more time recover to hit the next shot.

Overall I don't think the aggressive net game would be an immediate epic fail. I just think it would take a lot of determination (expect some frustrating ownage moments at the net) and good serving to get through with this game plan. Maybe her baseline game mixed with an occasional charge in the net would help in avoiding needless protracted rallies. ;)

chmath
Mar 21st, 2011, 01:35 PM
^ Totally agree with your analysis Karla, btw I wish everyone a very good week! :-)

FORZA SARITA
Mar 21st, 2011, 01:37 PM
.


I'm just waiting to get on clay though. I wanna see how the new, more offensive gamestyle translates there.

we have already seen her IW disaster :lol: and that's blue clay so it's not gonna be different :p

peanuts
Mar 21st, 2011, 04:25 PM
About her footwork - she's not the fastest player on tour, but I don't think she's that slow either. She's pretty smart on the court, has good positioning, so that saves her in most matches. Except when she gets tired, footwork is the first thing to break down and IMO that constitutes the horrible scoreline.


Indeed her anticipation usually helps her a lot. She has more of a problem against good defensive players that she cannot outhit and who can run around the court for hours. They usually have stronger legs than her and usually in the end it's Flavia who gets worn down with all the effort it takes to win a point.

Another thing, I noticed her average speed is more obvious on forward movements than lateral ones. When she has to a chase a dropshot from behind the baseline, she just seems to lack that explosive first step which should have helped jump start her sprint towards the ball. I don't know if you noticed this as well or it's just me seeing things. ;)

wiwa
Apr 3rd, 2011, 09:15 PM
Hi, I'm writing my thesis so I don't write a lot here. Anyway I'm pretty impressed by your contribution here - this thread was definitly worth the shot.

One last time about the Doha-match against Wozniacki. Some of you cited fatigue. Well, now seeing her shoulder tapes in IW & Miami, I blame her new "brute-force" forehand, that is a sort of "hit it like Rafa". However, Karla made me focus on her swing before the fh shot, so I collected some fh shots:
(pls don't mind the advert :o )

http://www.clipfish.de/video/3551477/

peanuts
Apr 4th, 2011, 04:52 AM
^Yeah definitely worth it. Some very interesting discussions in here. It's too bad you can't join the discussion here as much but it's alright, just post when you have the time. ;) Good luck in your thesis. :D

I'll take a look at the vid when I get home. It's been a while since I've checked out this kind of vid. I used to watch some of these (Marat's serve & BH, Martina's BH, Roger's FH etc.) when I was still a student. :oh:

wiwa
Apr 5th, 2011, 12:43 PM
^thank you Karla :kiss:

I'm afraid my vid cannot compete with what you're used to ;)

peanuts
Apr 5th, 2011, 04:39 PM
^Actually I remember most of them are not vids (except for Roger's FH). Back then Youtube or streaming video is still not a big thing. :o There was a site before of this some of sort of tennis guru and he was able to breakdown the technique of each players with pictures and explanation on each part of the shot. Sometimes he even compares shots of different players. Very informative stuff. :yeah:

wiwa
Jun 27th, 2011, 07:21 PM
from The "Flavia's not the only tennis player in the world" thread (http://www.tennisforum.com/showpost.php?p=19810528&postcount=1202)

...
BTW, for those who watch the match did Serena played badly or Marion is going GOAT now? LOL @ her in once again beating a big fave to win Wimby. :lol:Marion served amazingly and managed to hit deep shots on a constant level. Also she hit harder than Serena during the rallies :bowdown: Serena, for her part, tried to take shots early and made a step into the court. Therefore she often got off-balance when Marion placed her shots close to the base line. It lead to the strange situation that Marion dictated most of the rallies. Three or four time Serena assembled beautiful offensive tennis, but it was nothing but short flashes of her potential.

But most of all, Marion was the quicker player :eek: Lisicki definitly will be quicker than Marion, and if Lisicki can maintain a consistant serve, she will win, IMHO

Fantasy Hero
Jun 27th, 2011, 07:27 PM
i'm not sure about that ^ Lisicki is really a slow player on court and today she was exposed throughout the whole first set by a mediocre player like Cetkovska, which on her side had a great pace and a great placement of shots, but didn't need more than that before menally midjey

FORZA SARITA
Jun 27th, 2011, 07:33 PM
i agree with Giulio, Sabine is not really a great mover :shrug: Marion puts a lot of pressure on opponent's serves so if Sabine will have a low % of first serves she will win quite easily.

wiwa
Jun 27th, 2011, 07:41 PM
Lisicki had problems with the slippery court. Okay maybe she will not be as quick as I expected.
On the other hand, she could handle the shot-making of Na Li fairly well. And also she won last two matches against Bartoli...

Fantasy Hero
Jun 27th, 2011, 07:55 PM
anw about flavia i really think that the game she was able to produce against Marion is a A quality game which could bring her far next year in London both times at olympics and wimbly

Dado90
Jun 27th, 2011, 09:48 PM
anw about flavia i really think that the game she was able to produce against Marion is a A quality game which could bring her far next year in London both times at olympics and wimbly

she played so so impressive :sobbing: I never saw her hitting all those winning FH and not only crossed :worship: and the ball of Marion was very very heavy :eek:
the way in which she wanted to finish an exhausting rally was so :drool: :hearts: her drop shots were perfect in 80% ;)

she didn't lose the match phisically, or as regards strategy, but IMO simply on the nerve...I don't think she could blame herself for her game or for her choices on court, but only for the fact that when she could close the crucial game, her serve was totally :help:

but after some days from this match I think she played one of her most beautiful, damn and intense match of her career, even if a little bit unfortunate :sad:...and I will thank always her for the emotion I felt Saturday :inlove:
I'm so proud of her! :)

chmath
Jun 27th, 2011, 10:33 PM
^ Couldn't have summarized it any better... ITA.

wiwa
Jun 27th, 2011, 10:57 PM
@Gaspa @Dado90: same avatar :happy:

ITA about Flavia. She just needs to win some of the good matches and just make that experience. I remember the 4th round loss at AO against Kvitova :( . Gosh, we're talking like she's 26 or so :)

Fantasy Hero
Jun 28th, 2011, 06:00 AM
the saddest thing is that she 6 chances to make it at the right time :sobbing:

peanuts
Jun 29th, 2011, 10:59 AM
@Gaspa @Dado90: same avatar :happy:

ITA about Flavia. She just needs to win some of the good matches and just make that experience. I remember the 4th round loss at AO against Kvitova :( . Gosh, we're talking like she's 26 or so :)

the saddest thing is that she 6 chances to make it at the right time :sobbing:

I know. She already had 10+ years to have made that experience on tour. Sigh. But maybe it's still not too late for Flavia to be what she could have been. ;)


BTW, thank you boys for your commentaries. :hug: :smooch: The livestream on Flavia's match vs Marion is so dreadful I only managed to see several points. :o :facepalm:

And Willy thanks for answering my question. It turns out you're not so off the mark with your thoughts and prediction. :worship: Sabine did beat Marion. ;)

wiwa
Jun 29th, 2011, 01:44 PM
I know. She already had 10+ years to have made that experience on tour. Sigh. But maybe it's still not too late for Flavia to be what she could have been. ;)

...

And Willy thanks for answering my question. It turns out you're not so off the mark with your thoughts and prediction. :worship: Sabine did beat Marion. ;)
Just noticed your sig. I can identify with this :yeah: It makes some of the excitement of pursuing players carriers.

:o got it
TBH there was a little bit of wishful thinking ;)

wiwa
Jun 29th, 2011, 01:51 PM
BTW, in GM I predicted that Caro will win a slam, despite my signature :angel:

FORZA SARITA
Jun 29th, 2011, 01:57 PM
^ hope it's just a jinx :) right?

wiwa
Jun 29th, 2011, 02:15 PM
:silly:

we'll speak again in 5 years :wavey:

Caro is a good antagonist for my favs. I'd allow her to have one slam ;) It makes the circus more exciting to watch.

peanuts
Jun 30th, 2011, 07:17 AM
Just noticed your sig. I can identify with this :yeah: It makes some of the excitement of pursuing players carriers.

:o got it
TBH there was a little bit of wishful thinking ;)


It can be applicable to a non-sports career too. :yeah:

Oh I didn't mean to tease you. :lol: It's just that not a lot of people thinks that Sabine can beat Marion and she did. Thinking differently had paid off for you. You should have made a bet on her. :p

Methinks being good in wishful thinking is a requirement for all sports fan. :lol:

wiwa
Jun 30th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Methinks ... what a word in an internet forum :hearts: Would have expected it from Chris only ;)

chmath
Jun 30th, 2011, 02:12 PM
what a word in an internet forum :hearts: Would have expected it from Chris only ;)

Methinks = A phrase commonly used by pirates, Cockneys and, evidently, by extremely well educated and astutely amiable ladies from the Orient ;)

peanuts
Jun 30th, 2011, 03:26 PM
what a word in an internet forum :hearts: Would have expected it from Chris only ;)

Methinks = A phrase commonly used by pirates, Cockneys and, evidently, by extremely well educated and astutely amiable ladies from the Orient ;)

I got it from reading books with historical themes. I'm such a bookworm. :o :lol: I believe it's an archaic term now. :lol:

chmath
Jun 30th, 2011, 03:47 PM
^ It is so! Very very proud of you for using it Karla! (MASSIVE SMOOCH, no graphic available for that).

My dear fellows, allow me to digress:

Two-three years back, I had the misfortune of watching the "epic" Williams-Safina final, which was nothing short of a beat-down. At the time, I thought to myself, 'women's tennis is going nowhere, how sad".

Today, after the second so-called semi-final, two things occurred to me:

1) Flavia CAN win a grand-slam in whatever time she has left
2) Women's tennis truly is going NOWHERE.

The tournament favourite (aka as Masha) can win in straight sets having gifted her opponent a grand total of 3+ games in double faults alone. The number of rallies featuring 3 strokes or less is 42 (most of them comprising DFs or UE on return) and the so-called 'favourite' is due to face an opponent who, unless she chokes on the occasion, should basically trounce her with a handicap of 3 games in hand (there is NO WAY Masha's DF count will be less than 10 in the final).

And the grand opposition to the favourite is a girl who can basically bash a ball on grass (and nowhere else), whilst the rest of the field has managed to fall to each other in VERY bizarre circumstances.

At the same time, the world #1 can lose to a girl who is an inch above 5 foot, and who musters a total of 2 games against the world's no.7 or whatever Masha is. So basically, on form, she is about as duff a world #1 as has ever been seen, probably even more 'duff' than Safina (who at least got trounced in finals and not QFs).

As for the new breed of tennis player? I beg someone to point out where the future is? Heather Watson? (I'm being serious, too...). Ksenia Pervak? Who or what is it? Petra Kvitova? At least she can hit 30+ winners in a game, if that what it is, then that's what it is. But it is ANYTHING but exciting or interesting to watch.

So, in summary, may the Lord protect the Pennettas and Schiavones of this world, as well as any other lass who seeks to rally from the baseline, for as long as He sees fit, so at least we can have some hope of watching something called 'tennis', at least what I know and try to play as a sport....

FORZA SARITA
Jun 30th, 2011, 03:56 PM
all good till you named Kuznetsova :sobbing:

chmath
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:06 PM
Ok, well, in honour of your taste, she's gone. Check amended text!

wiwa
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:09 PM
:worship:

anyone knows the film "The Fly" with Jeff Goldblum? He had such an amazing apparat that combined him with a fly. I suggest shut Kvitova and Wozniacki in it. The result could be a curled tennis monster.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SI72Qn7mM5Y/TRrSDzFY3eI/AAAAAAAABBk/CZpSFQ71z_0/s1600/the%2Bfly%2B1986.jpg

chmath
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:11 PM
^ One of my favourite films of all time. And yes, the result would be...indescribable Wily!

FORZA SARITA
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:13 PM
that pic is disgusting :lol:

peanuts
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:15 PM
Chris, I didn't realize til now that you hate ballbashers that much. For me it depends on the player, some ballbashers can be quite interesting to watch especially if their shots are mostly landing in. When it's not then it can be a complete horror show. :tape:

And yes it's good that you removed Kuznetsova. :p She's one of those guilty of playing dreadful brainless tennis. :facepalm:

chmath
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Chris, I didn't realize til now that you hate ballbashers that much. For me it depends on the player, some ballbashers can be quite interesting to watch especially if their shots are mostly landing in. When it's not then it can be a complete horror show. :tape:

And yes it's good that you removed Kuznetsova. :p She's one of those guilty of playing dreadful brainless tennis. :facepalm:

I agree Karla. There are bashers and bashers. Na Li I have ALL the time in the world for. Pavlyuchenkova and Hantuchova too. Even Azarenka. But Kvitova doesn't do it for me, neither does Lisicki. Masha I support just 'cause she's put in sooo much work to come back. And hard work ought to be rewarded. Kvitova won fair and square today, Vika choked (I expected the opposite to happen), but the final on Saturday, seriously, could be a 45 minute affair either way. And if Masha doesn't serve and Kvitty doesn't seriously choke, she could get absolutely blown off the court. But the odds reflect the inadvertent reality of this tournament (and women's tennis in general): it's a choke fest. Cause, on form, Maria should NOT be 1/2 against...

wiwa
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:26 PM
that pic is disgusting :lol:
same tennis monster, some make-up :

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00657/federer_DW_Sport_Ne_657772p.jpg

peanuts
Jun 30th, 2011, 04:52 PM
^Crazy-eyes Fed. :lol: US Open '07 or '08 I think. :scratch:

Fantasy Hero
Jun 30th, 2011, 09:50 PM
^ It is so! Very very proud of you for using it Karla! (MASSIVE SMOOCH, no graphic available for that).

My dear fellows, allow me to digress:

Two-three years back, I had the misfortune of watching the "epic" Williams-Safina final, which was nothing short of a beat-down. At the time, I thought to myself, 'women's tennis is going nowhere, how sad".

Today, after the second so-called semi-final, two things occurred to me:

1) Flavia CAN win a grand-slam in whatever time she has left
2) Women's tennis truly is going NOWHERE.

The tournament favourite (aka as Masha) can win in straight sets having gifted her opponent a grand total of 3+ games in double faults alone. The number of rallies featuring 3 strokes or less is 42 (most of them comprising DFs or UE on return) and the so-called 'favourite' is due to face an opponent who, unless she chokes on the occasion, should basically trounce her with a handicap of 3 games in hand (there is NO WAY Masha's DF count will be less than 10 in the final).

And the grand opposition to the favourite is a girl who can basically bash a ball on grass (and nowhere else), whilst the rest of the field has managed to fall to each other in VERY bizarre circumstances.

At the same time, the world #1 can lose to a girl who is an inch above 5 foot, and who musters a total of 2 games against the world's no.7 or whatever Masha is. So basically, on form, she is about as duff a world #1 as has ever been seen, probably even more 'duff' than Safina (who at least got trounced in finals and not QFs).

As for the new breed of tennis player? I beg someone to point out where the future is? Heather Watson? (I'm being serious, too...). Ksenia Pervak? Who or what is it? Petra Kvitova? At least she can hit 30+ winners in a game, if that what it is, then that's what it is. But it is ANYTHING but exciting or interesting to watch.

So, in summary, may the Lord protect the Pennettas and Schiavones of this world, as well as any other lass who seeks to rally from the baseline, for as long as He sees fit, so at least we can have some hope of watching something called 'tennis', at least what I know and try to play as a sport....

i kinda really agree with you about everything...most of all about the qulity of the tennis which is being showed by the youngers

wiwa
Jul 1st, 2011, 09:30 AM
^ it's Bolletieries fault

Fantasy Hero
Jul 1st, 2011, 11:57 AM
i do really think so...SF line up included no players who can actually play a dropshot or even use a decent slice :facepalm: to not name the volleying skills

FORZA SARITA
Jul 1st, 2011, 12:17 PM
i do really think so...SF line up included no players who can actually play a dropshot or even use a decent slice :facepalm: to not name the volleying skills

like except Fran there's someone else able to do it in top10 :o

wiwa
Jul 1st, 2011, 12:52 PM
^ Lisicki (sorry ;) ) tried 2 times to disarm Masha's cannonballs with a slice. Both times it went 1 meter below the net. At least she had figured it out tactically, that's a good sign. I hope she will work on it. She played dropshots too, preceeded by a deep topspin forehand close to the line. I don't dare speak of variety yet ;)

Lisicki IMHO lacks a personality so far. You her it when she speaks German. It's all about fishing for encouragement, like a little girl.

And, guys, the Fabulous Flavia Forum is very special and full of personality. I can't say the same about the Lisicki forum, yet.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 1st, 2011, 05:12 PM
:lol: well i think it's because of the great personality of flavia :drool:
:lol:

chmath
Jul 1st, 2011, 06:08 PM
^ To be fair to Lisicki, she played a tactically super-astute game against Bartoli, but that's only 'cause she effectively emulated Flavia's game plan, + she could serve = win. But, her natural instinct is to rip the ball, period. And as far as personality is concerned, there's another area of deficit for you... Seles, Stefi, Vicario, Masha, Capriati, Kim, Fran, Gisela, Flavia, personality and attitude to spare. Include the Williams sisters in the attitude column, not necessarily the personality one. But there's something. The new breed is like 'I'm going to be 'cool'. Whatever that is...

wiwa
Jul 1st, 2011, 08:14 PM
^ To be fair to Lisicki, she played a tactically super-astute game against Bartoli, but that's only 'cause she effectively emulated Flavia's game plan, + she could serve = win. ...:devil:

1) Flavia CAN win a grand-slam in whatever time she has left
:bigcry:

wiwa
Jul 15th, 2011, 01:46 PM
Willy you're obsessed with Flavia's power forehand! :lol:Aren't we all obsessed by the motion of tennis, especially when it is performed by beautiful bodies :o

Willy you're obsessed with Flavia's power forehand! :lol:
:tape: that really made me think once more about the forehand

For me as a non-player, Flavias forehand is a riddle. Have you noticed that the full stretched forehand is better than the standing forhand? It is not like she lacks power.

I compare it to Rafa, because the motion of her swing is as short and jagged like his. Other women used to have a wide open swing long before they go into the ball.

And I really think that her long arms is a handicap, too. IMO She has not the right balance and timing during the strike. And now she's hitting a million forehands during the training, with exaclty no result. Kill the coach for that!

Here some photos of her fh. They look so weird to me, because the arm is bent that much:
http://radikal.ua/data/upload/c2184/69fda/57b7ab03df.jpg
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Flavia+Pennetta+Toray+Pan+Pacific+Open+Day+XW-hDnQUnaDl.jpg
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Flavia+Pennetta+Toray+Pan+Pacific+Open+Day+YXfHwfR Lp8Sl.jpg

peanuts
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:10 PM
Aren't we all obsessed by the motion of tennis, especially when it is performed by beautiful bodies :o


:tape: that really made me think once more about the forehand

For me as a non-player, Flavias forehand is a riddle. Have you noticed that the full stretched forehand is better than the standing forhand? It is not like she lacks power.

I compare it to Rafa, because the motion of her swing is as short and jagged like his. Other women used to have a wide open swing long before they go into the ball.

And I really think that her long arms is a handicap, too. IMO She has not the right balance and timing during the strike. And now she's hitting a million forehands during the training, with exaclty no result. Kill the coach for that!

Here some photos of her fh. They look so weird to me, because the arm is bent that much:


I'm not sure what you meant by this?

About the arm being too bent...It is true that sometimes players (not just Flavia) do that especially when they don't have enough time to get into proper position. They are however pros so they can rotate their upper body and get power and balance from their legs to generate enough pace on their swing. ;) Based from those pics, I don't think arm is that close when hitting the shot. Notice how her elbow is not touching her body? Anyways, I'll try to watch more closely the next time I watch her match. It's hard to tell accurately from a few pics. ;)

As for her long arms, the key is to move your legs fast enough to get into the proper position so the ball wouldn't be too close to your body. Having long arms should be good for a tennis player as it gives them more reach. :p

peanuts
Jul 15th, 2011, 07:46 PM
knew it :D

I'm not sure what you mean by "hits it late". Do you refer to his skills as a Duracell bunny?
btw I wrote in the Sofa-coaching thread why I compare it with Rafa.

I mean he doesn't hit the ball in front of him. A lot of times he hits (especially when he's pushed way behind the baseline) the ball when it's almost at the side of his body. This is usually why his follow-through (the motion after contact to the ball) is loop over his head. Players with an extreme FH grip like Rafa does this a lot. ;)

ETA: Flavia hits the ball more in front. In the AO 2011 final, the commentators did a comparison of Flavia and Gisela's FH (on the ROS I think) and you can see the difference on their contact point. Gisela with the more extreme grip hits it more late while Flavia tends to hit the ball slightly in front of her. One advantage for Gisela is that it's harder to read where she will place her return as she hits the ball so late.

wiwa
Jul 15th, 2011, 08:07 PM
I'm not sure what you meant by this?

About the arm being too bent...It is true that sometimes players (not just Flavia) do that especially when they don't have enough time to get into proper position. They are however pros so they can rotate their upper body and get power and balance from their legs to generate enough pace on their swing. ;) Based from those pics, I don't think arm is that close when hitting the shot. Notice how her elbow is not touching her body? Anyways, I'll try to watch more closely the next time I watch her match. It's hard to tell accurately from a few pics. ;)

As for her long arms, the key is to move your legs fast enough to get into the proper position so the ball wouldn't be too close to your body. Having long arms should be good for a tennis player as it gives them more reach. :p
full streched forehand = she runs to the ball, hardly reaches it, and yet cracks a winner with quite some pace. I suppose it has sth. to do with the stretch.

standing forehand = not running, time to position yourself to the ball and bend your knees. For some reason she struggles to get pace on those shots, while it looks so easy for Roberta and many other players of her size.

I see that her elbow does not touch the body. I compared it with pics of Julia Görges, who has a quite streched swing, so I thought the strech makes a good forehand.

long arms = long reach. :speakles::rain: @myself

Yeah, you can have a look. I find it interesting. :) Then we can advise Flavia via twitter ;)

peanuts
Jul 18th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Palermo SF: Polona def. Flavia, 6-2 6-2

I finally saw this match...Well I think Flavia did try, she made some aggressive play and hit some of her trademark BH DTL winners but she didn't get too many chances to make them. Polona played quite well and her forehand is working (also did well with that kicker serve) Flavia on the other hand made some loose errors on her FH side. For most of the time, she was on the defensive and even on neutral rallies Polona was outrallying her. She was also a bit late in reacting in some of those short balls that Polona normally produces on her backhand :tape: so by the time she gets to the ball all she can muster is a short reply giving Polona all the time to pass her on the net. Another thing I noticed is that she's slower than usual in chasing those dropshots. In the first set she barely got to most of them and whenever she did she just ends up losing the point.

As for her serve, as has been said it was really a bad serving day. :sad: It's hard to make headway in a match when winning a point on your serve is an epic struggle. She was spinning most of her serve (incl. some 1st serves) with not much placement and pace, and as a result got punished on the return. It also did not help that Polona had serve well and apart from a handful of returns, Flavia wasn't able to do much on the kicker to her BH as she is usually capable of against this kind of serve (i.e. see her matches against Stosur).

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 01:18 PM
i think you totally got the point, but in my humble opinion she really lacked of a true tactic as she seemed to be not awere of opponent's strength and she really never tried to hurt Polona on her BH.
The most scary thing indeed was the ROS. She used to be a great returner mostly against big serves. It's a trade lately that she isn't returning well, rarely hits a winner and most of the time she just push the ball back (and not even always) without any single trace of aggressivness. What really surprised me is that she was great on returning kick serves and even though Polona serves quite well she rarely changed that shot as it was 90% on the time a kick serve on the left (on both deauce and advantage) but flavia never tried to anticipate that shot.

peanuts
Jul 18th, 2011, 02:30 PM
At one point they showed a replay of Flavia's ROS (ended up in the net) of Polona's kick serve and you could see that she was late in hitting the ball. The ball had already bounced way above her shoulders and a kick serve is much harder to control if you let it bounced that high. She used to time that ROS so well. Hitting the ball on the rise so it wouldn't get away from her. Now her timing seem to be off and her reflexes both in reacting to medium-high pace rallies and when putting away short balls IMO had become considerably slower.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 03:11 PM
nice pick...i really thought of the same thing, she really lacks on stamina more than power and speed. She seems under a big ammount of work (hopefully it turns out to be like that)

peanuts
Jul 18th, 2011, 03:23 PM
Another thing on the strategy on hitting to Polona's BH...I don't think it's as easy to do on clay. Much like Ivanovic, Polona is always ready to run around her BH (or it FH? I always get that term confused :o) so she can hit the inside-out FH or go DTL depending on where her opponent is positioned. Clay gives her more time to do this. In this match, Flavia also did not have consistent depth in her BH (as she's hitting from a defensive position a lot of times) which gave Polona even more time to hit her FH.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 03:55 PM
i see and your point is clearly right, but IMO it all was caused by her lack of good foot-work/stamina, she was really too defensive in order to be deep with her shots and don't give the time to run around the ball like Polly did

peanuts
Jul 18th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Yeah I do think the footwork/stamina is a factor in why she's hitting way shorter than usual. She seems like she's still a work in progress in this area after the shoulder injury. She's never been one of the fastest players but she used to be good in getting her feet in position when she's not being forced to run miles for a shot. ;) Now she just seems slower in getting ready to hit any kind of shots.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 04:18 PM
totally agree with you. I think now she got in a sort of limbo: she can't close points just by hitting hard from baseline (as she's never been good at that) even if she can hit balls without moving much around the court, but she can't even play her game as she totally lacks of a decent footwork to get into the right place at the right time.
Her netrush is beyond terrible at the moment and that makes it easy for opponents to pass her with ease

wiwa
Jul 18th, 2011, 04:50 PM
I hold on to my point that she's under pain killer. It would explain many of your findings. Of course it's not a durable point of mine.

Even if there's no pain killer involved, she is still so impatient and distracted on the court, that it looks like as if. Let's wrap up the psychological situation: she worked hard during the off-season to change her game, late in her career. It worked well in the beginning, but then her body doesn't bear up. Even if she can play now, it is a Sword of Damocles all the time. Not to forget that she already defined the horizon of her career-end, the Olympic games. It's hard to have fun playing tennis under that kind of pressure.

Fantasy Hero
Jul 18th, 2011, 05:22 PM
on the point i kind of disagree. IMO she is now fighting with another feeling which is the one given by the whole situation + the idea that she has already done a lot on her carreer and she's soon retiring: IMO she's probably no more motivated when she's facing "nobodies" and playing little tournaments. She's possibly in the moment of her carreer when the ranking isn't meaningful and probably she's willing for a great last swan song. Something like cutting big heads or making a great run in a big tournament...that's the only explanation it comes to my mind as she played a great match against a main contender at wimbly (Marion) and showed a good mental focus against a player like Pironkova who came from wimbly QF

peanuts
Jul 18th, 2011, 06:21 PM
totally agree with you. I think now she got in a sort of limbo: she can't close points just by hitting hard from baseline (as she's never been good at that) even if she can hit balls without moving much around the court, but she can't even play her game as she totally lacks of a decent footwork to get into the right place at the right time.
Her netrush is beyond terrible at the moment and that makes it easy for opponents to pass her with ease

Totally.
Some of the approach shots she's been hitting vs Polona and vs Pirokova has been dreadful (either lacking in depth or angle) and she's also missing a lot of these routine volleys that she would normally make in her sleep.

wiwa
Jul 30th, 2011, 10:06 AM
Sorry for my late answer. I enjoyed very much your contributions.

on the point i kind of disagree. IMO she is now fighting with another feeling which is the one given by the whole situation + the idea that she has already done a lot on her carreer and she's soon retiring: IMO she's probably no more motivated when she's facing "nobodies" and playing little tournaments. She's possibly in the moment of her carreer when the ranking isn't meaningful and probably she's willing for a great last swan song. Something like cutting big heads or making a great run in a big tournament...that's the only explanation it comes to my mind as she played a great match against a main contender at wimbly (Marion) and showed a good mental focus against a player like Pironkova who came from wimbly QF
I totally have the same impression since late 2010. If it was nothing but motivation, I'd be fine with it, of course.
The observations of you and Karla about her quickness and footwork should not even be surprising. You noticed her lack of quickness already in 2010, so I guess it's a trend. IIRC her "new game", it meant that she traded quickness for pace of shots, because she didn't want to run so much anymore.

wiwa
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:55 PM
6:1 2:6 2;6 against Brianti

Only a psychiatrist could analyze this.

:hug: @ depressive Flavia

Dado90
Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:10 PM
6:1 2:6 2;6 against Brianti

Only a psychiatrist could analyze this.

:hug: @ depressive Flavia

my professor at university gave us a beautiful precept:

"the neurologist is who knows very much, but nothing can do
the psychiatrist is who knows a little bit, but everything can do
the psychologist is who knows nothing, and nothing can do"

so your advice is perfect! :lol:

wiwa
Aug 2nd, 2011, 10:26 PM
...
"the neurologist is who knows very much, but nothing can do
the psychiatrist is who knows a little bit, but everything can do
the psychologist is who knows nothing, and nothing can do"
...
that order :scared:

@Dado90: Are you a student of psychology?

chmath
Aug 2nd, 2011, 10:35 PM
Great quote Dado...

MAGIKARPETTA
Aug 2nd, 2011, 11:04 PM
my professor at university gave us a beautiful precept:

"the neurologist is who knows very much, but nothing can do
the psychiatrist is who knows a little bit, but everything can do
the psychologist is who knows nothing, and nothing can do"

:facepalm:

Dado90
Aug 3rd, 2011, 10:41 AM
that order :scared:

@Dado90: Are you a student of psychology?

No, I'm studying medicine :D

MAGIKARPETTA
Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:00 AM
@Dado90: Are you a student of psychology?

No, I'm studying medicine :D

I study psychology ;)

Dado90
Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:04 AM
I study psychology ;)

niente di personale naturalmente :lol: :lol:

FORZA SARITA
Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:06 AM
No, I'm studying medicine :D

ora trova una cura per Flavia :p

Dado90
Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:07 AM
ora trova una cura per Flavia :p

forse se qualcuno la picchia evitiamo di smuovere psicologi, psichiatri o neurologi :devil: :lol:

MAGIKARPETTA
Aug 3rd, 2011, 01:40 PM
"It's clearly an Edipo thing. Urpi now prefer Alex and Flavia is so demolished for this " :spit: Joking

Fantasy Hero
Aug 10th, 2011, 09:54 PM
i think someone already said this...and in between of this mess it's probably the most plausible solution:
flavia's injury is worse than she wanted to tell but she knows she's can undergo a surgery if she wants to play olympics bofore calling it a carreer.
i think this is the most reasonable solution to that slump because the 2 shots which really are troubling her are FH and most of all the service. she hit 18 DF in two matches in toronto and as far as i remember she has never had so many DF with just 2 aces :shrug:
supposissions obviously :lol: not that if we really know what's wrong, things will change :lol:

chmath
Aug 10th, 2011, 10:27 PM
^ITA. And after USO she can undergo surgery and then come back in Feb and work towards Olympics. IF that's what it is.

Zamboni
Aug 11th, 2011, 04:43 AM
I agree with you that one way or the other the injury is probably still bothering her. But we can't know for sure and perhaps it's just hard for us to believe that she's playing like this without injury.

What has shocked me most in the matches I have seen of her, except for the serve, is the complete and absolute lack of power. She's never been a hardhitter but the last months she can hardly get her shots past the service line. That's always gonna get her killed.

wiwa
Aug 11th, 2011, 09:53 AM
The injury explanation is comforting because it suggests she does have a kind of a plan instead of being completly helpless and mindfucking herself.

wiwa
Aug 12th, 2011, 07:15 AM
Voskoboeva played well against Sharapova. This girl can move and use variations! Made it look so easy against Sharapova :help:

No shame on Flavia for losing against her.

Dado90
Aug 22nd, 2011, 07:48 AM
Seriously guys, I think it's unavoidable changing something in her staff...the collaboration with Gabriel is actually in a slump, she needs new spurs if she wants prepare decently herself for London 2012 and for her last (?) complete season on singe! From the injury she in unable to close every kind of game, set or match when she is above as regards points...seriously 51 with Rogowska, lots of time up against Zahlavova Strycova, up with Brianti, vey often up against Marion in Wimby...yesterday 52 up with 3 SP...she is totally out psycologically :(

Houston, abbiamo un problema! :lol:

What do you think?

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 07:51 AM
I think that she knows she's on a hurry because she set herself a a limit to her carreer and she also knows to be playing crap so she's just trying to hurry things and her game lets her down :shrug:

she need, i dunno what the hell she needs, probably she doesn't need anything but quitting.

Dado90
Aug 22nd, 2011, 07:57 AM
I think that she knows she's on a hurry because she set herself a a limit to her carreer and she also knows to be playing crap so she's just trying to hurry things and her game lets her down :shrug:

she need, i dunno what the hell she needs, probably she doesn't need anything but quitting.

:sobbing: :sobbing:

wiwa
Aug 22nd, 2011, 08:00 AM
Perhaps she just doesn't want to turn around her tactics right in the middle of a season?

Dado90
Aug 22nd, 2011, 08:06 AM
Perhaps she just doesn't want to turn around her tactics right in the middle of a season?

Yes, this is right, but nowadays everything goes wrong, so what has she to lose?

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 08:08 AM
her tactic was great before the injury :shrug: i guess it's all mental

Dado90
Aug 22nd, 2011, 08:11 AM
^ exactly and the absence of a guide-person is a problem for her :sobbing:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:10 AM
I still think it's a confidence problem for her after that injury. It was just hard for her to get back on track and win consecutive matches. Playing consecutive matches in one tournament that should get her form back on groove and give her that necessary confidence to execute her game plan without feeling down and lost whenever she makes an unforced error.

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:12 AM
i think that the key point was her loss to bartoli, she could play her best tennis despite the pain and everything, but all the effort didn't pay :shrug:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 10:50 AM
i think that the key point was her loss to bartoli, she could play her best tennis despite the pain and everything, but all the effort didn't pay :shrug:

So she did her best but in the end her best is just not good enough? :awww: That's kinda sad to think about. :awww: It was a tough match (against an opponent who has a better grass record and refuses to lose) so I think it's difficult to just based the trajectory of the rest of her career just on that. :shrug:

MAGIKARPETTA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 11:31 AM
i think that the key point was her loss to bartoli, she could play her best tennis despite the pain and everything, but all the effort didn't pay :shrug:

Yeah. She got depressed after that loss, instead of thinking that she was playing again at high level :shout:

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 11:32 AM
not to offend you, but she's a girl and not a mentally tough one

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 12:10 PM
^:lol: No offense taken. :lol:

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 12:34 PM
Shakira knows everything :lol: we're rabiosi with Sucketta :fiery:

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 12:37 PM
Shakira might better make a song called "rise up" or "fight back" then :fiery:

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 12:39 PM
no wonder she only makes songs about sex :lol:
next single "Uptown whore" :cheer:

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 12:42 PM
^ OMG :haha:

chmath
Aug 22nd, 2011, 01:10 PM
no wonder she only makes songs about sex :lol:
next single "Uptown whore" :cheer:

Of all the over-cynical, rabidly insane comments you've ever made, Fran, this one takes the cake (I wonder if that phrase was made for Bartoli...hmmm....).

You are GOD of the internet forums :worship:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:04 PM
Shakira knows everything :lol: we're rabiosi with Sucketta :fiery:

What does rabiosi mean?

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:30 PM
What does rabiosi mean?

:fiery:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:33 PM
:fiery:

Well the song is rabiosa not rabiosi. :p

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:41 PM
Well the song is rabiosa not rabiosi. :p

plural?:facepalm:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:42 PM
plural?:facepalm:

Sorry Maestro Fran, my Spanish is no good. :sobbing:

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:45 PM
i love this GIF :hearts:
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq1ko3m6lm1qhqg7uo1_500.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq1ko3m6lm1qhqg7uo2_500.gif

i tought it was one gif but they're 2 :rolleyes:

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:57 PM
Fran, just out of curiosity, is that GIF for Flavia or Shakira? :p

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 04:58 PM
Shakira of course :p

FORZA SARITA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 05:00 PM
this one is for Flavia :oh:

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lksbi9nGwz1qewmu6o1_500.gif

peanuts
Aug 22nd, 2011, 05:01 PM
Oh dear. :haha:

Fantasy Hero
Aug 22nd, 2011, 05:31 PM
:haha:

MAGIKARPETTA
Aug 22nd, 2011, 05:48 PM
OMF.. :crying2::happy:

wiwa
Oct 12th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Flavia - Caro 3:6 6:0 7:6 Beijing 2011

The difference was that Flavia studied her opponent thoroughly before the match:
- occupied Caro's forehand with good angles
- lured her to the net
- attacked her 1st serve
- gave her a lot of tasks to solve
- capitalized from Caros lack of confidence
- avoided long backhand rallys (unlike in Montreal 2010)
- didn't play high topspin on Caro's backhand (unlike in Montreal 2010)
- made her own full-court game less forseeable (unlike in Doha 2011)

Fantasy Hero
Oct 12th, 2011, 06:56 PM
:yeah: nice job analyzing it i totally agree with you

wiwa
Oct 12th, 2011, 06:59 PM
:hi5:

MAGIKARPETTA
Oct 12th, 2011, 08:53 PM
Yes. Finally she learned that she must play on Caro FH and never on her BH. After 6 matches it's stunning! :lol:

wiwa
Feb 15th, 2012, 04:28 PM
@Gaspa: Are you referring to that 29% ??
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg19/scaled.php?server=19&filename=goatq.png&res=medium

Fantasy Hero
Feb 15th, 2012, 07:55 PM
yes :lol:

wiwa
Feb 16th, 2012, 11:11 AM
It used to be 70%-90% in 2011. Maybe she tried to avoid rallies too much, because of injury.
I don't buy it's just an insecure Flavia, given how intense she played in Auckland. :sad: