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The Dawntreader
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:30 PM
After Henin's retirement, the WTA is on such a precarious balance right now. It's hard not to get resigned when a key elite player has dropped out, and thus great rivalries with it. Nostlagic? Maybe, but it shows how much tennis depended upon players like Henin, and the reality is such that the non-retired elite (Venus, Serena, Clijsters) are aproaching the end of their careers too. The foundations for commercial, crowd and lasting aesthetic appeal in women's tennis seems to be fading by the day.

In all truthfulness the elevated positions of players like Radwanksa, Wozniacki, Azarenka etc, is not really their fault, but it shows the void in which women's tennis has been attempting to over-compensate for years now. These players are just unequipped for greatness at the highest level, and who do we look to? Venus cannot stay healthy for more than 2 months a year now, Serena is dangerously close to permanent inactivity, Clijsters is part-time and won't be able to sustain her body throughout the remainder of her career, without suffering the same fate as the other two.


This is not an angry thread, but more a thread of sorrow. We are entering a very dark period in the WTA's history, and the solutions seem futile. I would hate for the WTA to become a perennial side-show to the ATP and be disregarded. It's so much better than that.

PLP
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:41 PM
You have a point but I have really enjoyed the Australian so far, so I think for the first time in 3 or 4 years things are actually looking on the bright side.

Justine's retirement is rough, but she has been out since Wimbledon last year anyway. I would look beyond the players you mentioned (Aga, Caro, etc.,) and see that there are MANY other younger talents out there, hungry and ready to fight.

wildemu
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:43 PM
i liked from what i saw in sevastova, kvitova, and jovanowski in this tournament.

There is a lot of raw talent out there ready to blossom, I'm not giving up on the tour.

kman
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Justine was largely irrelevant since her comeback. It's not a big loss. Dementieva retiring was a bigger loss.

Gdsimmons
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Justine's reitrement is not some huge catalyst to the fall of the WTA. Justine has been pretty irrelevant since last years final. And the WTA has been on a decline for awhile now. I think the WTA is in a very weird place. I think its kinda similiar to what mens tennis went through when Aggassi and Sampras were on their decline. I think that was like 2001 to like 2003. I think we need our next star player or players, and I just dont think we've found her just yet.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:57 PM
As great as Justine Henin was, as great as Serena Williams, Venus Williams and Kim Clijsters have been tennis, both men's and women's has always been about more than a few star players. It is bigger than Henin, bigger than Clijsters, bigger than both the Williams sisters put together. Just as it was bigger than Navratilova and Evert and just as it was bigger than Graf.

I actually think we are heading for a very intriging era. I would be the 1st to agree this current generation does not have a single player of the calibre of the the four best players from the last decade. But I do believe there are as many, if not more, very good players. We are soon to be entering an era when for the first time in living memory Grand Slam after Grand Slam will be wide open.

To me the best sporting events are about more than just the skill of a very few elite players. They are about the drama of not being about to predict what will happen. We have a lot of very decent young players emerging at the moment. I for one am very intrigue to see which of these players are going to be able to seize the opportunities that will be coming their way and which ones will remain supporting cast members only. The wonderful thing right now is that if I am completely honest, I don't really know and this is a scenario I am going to enjoy seeing played out.

I honestly have no doubt there are quite a few players who right now who are very much in the shadows who will over the course of time win the respect of the tennis public. Who will those players be? That is for us to find out.

miffedmax
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:57 PM
I'm sure the new VP of the RTF will oversee the development of a new wave of talent the likes of which the world has never seen before.

eck
Jan 26th, 2011, 05:59 PM
I'm sure the new VP of the RTF will oversee the development of a new wave of talent the likes of which the world has never seen before.

With the condition that they have those bangs.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:01 PM
i liked from what i saw in sevastova, kvitova, and jovanowski in this tournament.

There is a lot of raw talent out there ready to blossom, I'm not giving up on the tour.

Exactly. These are three excellent examples of players whose development it will be fascinating to watch over the coming years. And there are many others as well.

GrandMartha
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:02 PM
We're heading for a Wozniacki domination :rolleyes: Or is she dominating the tour already? :unsure:
She's gonna sweep all four slams this year :tears:

debby
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:03 PM
Justine was largely irrelevant since her comeback. It's not a big loss. Dementieva retiring was a bigger loss.

As much as I like Dementieva, Justine made a better season than Elena did last year, and Justine beat her twice. So I don't see where Elena was more relevant than Justine.

Both are a huge loss for the game.

We are headed for a crappy era but then some players will emerge and it will be amazing again. How long it will take ?

Onjanae.
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Could you be anymore melodramatic? :help: Big four aside, there's still time and hope for players like Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Jankovic and Ivanovic (the rightful heirs to the 'hieghts of greatness') to pull themselves together. These four are better players than Wozniacki and co, it's just a shame that bar Sharapova, they got f*cked up mentally by the retirement of Henin and the sudden exposure and pressures - such as battling for number one prematurely. Sticking with my line of thinking, while Kim, Venus and Serena are still around, Kuzzy, Pova, Ana and Jelena can still uild their confidence back up by notching some wins against the exiting big four. That's usually the natural order... ew generation start beating the old and taking care of things. It can still happen.

In the mean time, Francesca Schiavone is doing a damn good job of getting bums in seats and attracting new fans. She has been the woman of the tournament for me, her matches exceeding evenmens matches for entertainment. In the media here, her Quarter final match, albiet a loss is considered the best match of all the quarter finals played, men and women. She is a joy to watch and has such great energy. For a while at least, players like Schiavone will take care of things - offer a ncie distraction.

It will work out. It always does.

Joana
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:05 PM
Justine wasn't really dominating so her absence won't matter much in that regard, but what her retirement really does is highlight the fact that a great, great generation of players is reaching its end. And the one that's coming is nowhere near as good.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:08 PM
We're heading for a Wozniacki domination :rolleyes: Or is she dominating the tour already? :unsure:
She's gonna sweep all four slams this year :tears:

Got to say, I don't see Wozniacki dominating this sport. I suppose it is a possibility but I think it's quite unlikely. That said, whether one likes the way she plays or not there is no question she is an very strong competitor and I think she knows a little bit more about how to play tennis than her detractors give her credit for. I do expect her to win 1 or 2 slams in the future, possibly more, but to dominate the sport? I don't think so.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:09 PM
Downwards.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:13 PM
Justine wasn't really dominating so her absence won't matter much in that regard, but what her retirement really does is highlight the fact that a great, great generation of players is reaching its end. And the one that's coming is nowhere near as good.

I agree with this. I don't have any problem aknowledging that the best 4 or 5 players from the generation that is now on its last legs far exceeds those of the 4 or 5 best players of the generation that is just about upon us. However for me tennis has always been about far far more than 4 or 5 players so this probably troubles me less than it does some other folks. No question however, when they go The Williams sisters and Clijsters will be very missed as I'm sure Henin will be too.

debby
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:15 PM
Justine wasn't really dominating so her absence won't matter much in that regard, but what her retirement really does is highlight the fact that a great, great generation of players is reaching its end. And the one that's coming is nowhere near as good.

This. Last time she retired, I was gutted about her retirement, not other players.
Right now, I am gutted about her retirement but also the current state of the tour, and that great generation retiring atm.

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:16 PM
I think the WTA will be fine.

As fans of the WTA we want it to be the best it can be, so we always harken back to 2001 when it was eclipsing men's tennis in some parts of the world. Those days are gone, it was (probably) a one-off in the history of women's tennis.

Onjanae.
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:18 PM
Plus I tried creating a positive thread yesterday with a minor but still encouraging bit. But I guess people don't like encouraging news around here maybe :lol:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=427642

Stamp Paid
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Where does the tour go now?
Apparently this is the best slam in years...:lol:

Sombrerero loco
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:25 PM
wozniacki will save the wta tour :hearts:

The Witch-king
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Y r people plaining when we still have Kim?

Annie.
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Well, the best era is about over. When Serena and Venus retire it'll be official. The tour needs some girls with talent AND personality. There needs to be some rivalries, drama, and bitchiness. If I wanted to watch boring players, with no personalities, acting like robots on court then I would watch men's tennis.

Stamp Paid
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:31 PM
I dunno. I think maybe, the daunting presence of the Elite 4 is actually hindering the growth of Wozniacki, Azarenka, and some of the other young girls. None of those girls really believes they can beat Serena at the AO (except maybe Azarenka...lol), Venus at Wimbledon, Justine at RG, Kim at the USO, etc.

Maybe once Serena, Kim, Venus, and Justine are gone, the girls will be able to believe they can attain slam glory and then begin to step up their levels to become truly elite players. I believe we are witnessing Zvonareva and Na step up to the plate now, potentially Woz too. I'm not giving up on it yet.

ViceUltramontain
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:33 PM
Y r people plaining when we still have Kim?

This. We must have faith in the Saint. Only her can help us and lead us to better days. We just have to follow the lights with her.

Dave.
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:33 PM
We've been heading in this direction for ages though. We've been lucky enough to have the Williams sisters give one more go at it (regaining the top 2 rankings between them) and a few exciting comebacks like Kim's and some great matches here and there, but it all was only on a temporary basis and we've been increasingly getting an idea of life with Woz and the younger generation at the peak of the game. And we're all still here watching and talking about it. Serena, Venus and Kim have also barely been around recently.

I don't think the sudden retirement of Henin changes anything at all, since it was always coming in the forseeable future (just not expected to be this soon), and she was only really back for about 6 months between AO and Wimbledon 2010.

If people don't like the younger generation, fair enough. But let's not pretend that Henin's retirement is that big a deal. I think it's easier to accept those players are going to be retired soon anyway, so that when they do play it's a bonus. Otherwise just get used to what we have sooner than later. And the women actually don't seem to have been that much of a sideline to the ATP anymore this AO than in the last few years.



In all truthfulness the elevated positions of players like Radwanksa, Wozniacki, Azarenka etc, is not really their fault

I love how it's established that the elevated positions of those players is by definition a fault. :lol:

amaze
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:35 PM
WTA is on a rise. Retirement of one barely relevant former champion won't have any serious impact on it.

Adal
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:36 PM
The same direction it has been going for quite a while now - down.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:43 PM
I dont know what you mean by 'go'?
You mean financially? If Li wins and China puts tens of millions into womens tennis, they'll be in great shape.

Either way, Wozniacki has already passed Schiavone and Hantuchova in career prizemoney, the WTA is lucky to have such a consistent 20 year old.

If you mean by level of play, the WTA will always be the highest level the best of over 3 billion women can play.

CoolDude7
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:43 PM
When they are gone(Serena, Venus, Kim, and lets face it Maria), many will turn to ATP. I wouldn't be surprised if the tour no longer felt the need to feature at least one womens match on the main court until the quarters.

AcesHigh
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:46 PM
Where does the tour go now?
Apparently this is the best slam in years...:lol:

It is.. especially with Henin retiring :bounce:
:lol: j/k of course.

But seriously.. you have new players emerging, Vera finally breaking through last year, Na Li solidifying herself.. and finally a purging of players that have hung around (Sharapova, Ana, Jelena, etc) without doing much.

You have to fight to win in today's game.. just can't coast to slam wins. You need something extra like Serena's serve, Caro's willpower, Kim's athleticism and steadiness.

I think there is more hope than there was in 2009 for example.
EDIT: I also think people are holding on waaayyyy too much to the past. People still cling to the notion of the Big 4 when the Big 4 died years ago. It's time for everyone to move on and you're either going to watch and deal with it or take a break from women's tennis.

Bismarck.
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Let's face it, even if you take away the fact that Azarenka, Wozniacki and co. can't compare to the old guard, you're still left with the fact that they are nowhere near as marketable, which is what the money-hungry WTA needs to survive. There are no phenomenal young American players, and America generates by far the most interest and revenue for the WTA so the Tour may soon have little relevance there.

AcesHigh
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Let's face it, even if you take away the fact that Azarenka, Wozniacki and co. can't compare to the old guard, you're still left with the fact that they are nowhere near as marketable, which is what the money-hungry WTA needs to survive. There are no phenomenal young American players, and America generates by far the most interest and revenue for the WTA so the Tour may soon have little relevance there.

They will find some young sexy player to overhype... I'm sure of it.

Btw, a similar period happened with the end of the Sampras-Agassi era. We thought men's tennis would enter a long dark age.. but suddenly out of nowhere appeared the two greatest players ever to play tennis.

I doubt we'll see that in women's tennis but you never know what's around the corner.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:54 PM
They will find some young sexy player to overhype... I'm sure of it.

Btw, a similar period happened with the end of the Sampras-Agassi era. We thought men's tennis would enter a long dark age.. but suddenly out of nowhere appeared the two greatest players ever to play tennis.

I doubt we'll see that in women's tennis but you never know what's around the corner.

True that.

miffedmax
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:56 PM
I think a lot of them are going to Paris.

TennisFan66
Jan 26th, 2011, 06:58 PM
Ah yes another doomsday thread. 2012 anyone? .. The WTA is the biggest female sporting organization on the planet and I personally don't see any threat to that. Oh wait. Synchronized swimming perhaps, as they have those so by some TF posters coverted 'style points' .. You can also whine and moan here as much as you like, WTA is stronger than ever. Little know fact, YEC 2010 viewing numbers 20% up on 2009. Impressive :worship:

Kipling
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:15 PM
Ah yes another doomsday thread. 2012 anyone? .. The WTA is the biggest female sporting organization on the planet and I personally don't see any threat to that. Oh wait. Synchronized swimming perhaps, as they have those so by some TF posters coverted 'style points' .. You can also whine and moan here as much as you like, WTA is stronger than ever. Little know fact, YEC 2010 viewing numbers 20% up on 2009. Impressive :worship:

Now the day synchronized swimming gets legitimized with TV time is the day the Apocalypse is really upon us.

kiwifan
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:16 PM
I dunno. I think maybe, the daunting presence of the Elite 4 is actually hindering the growth of Wozniacki, Azarenka, and some of the other young girls. None of those girls really believes they can beat Serena at the AO (except maybe Azarenka...lol), Venus at Wimbledon, Justine at RG, Kim at the USO, etc.

Maybe once Serena, Kim, Venus, and Justine are gone, the girls will be able to believe they can attain slam glory and then begin to step up their levels to become truly elite players. I believe we are witnessing Zvonareva and Na step up to the plate now, potentially Woz too. I'm not giving up on it yet.

I agree with most of the above but I find is sad and frustrating instead of just "well that's how it is"...as much as I love the Williams Sisters and respect the "Belgium Sisters", as J Cap would call them, I was looking forward to the day that some 16 year old stepped on the scene and blasted them all off the court. :lol: :cool: :lol:

All this waiting for them all to get old, break down and retire hits too close to home ;) :tape:

Bismarck.
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:21 PM
They will find some young sexy player to overhype... I'm sure of it.

Btw, a similar period happened with the end of the Sampras-Agassi era. We thought men's tennis would enter a long dark age.. but suddenly out of nowhere appeared the two greatest players ever to play tennis.

I doubt we'll see that in women's tennis but you never know what's around the corner.

They've tried the sex tactic with Ivanovic and Wozniacki already. :lol:

The difference with the ATP is that the women's tour is much more of a niche market. It's much easier to generate publicity and interest for the men's tour without having to revert to excessive advertising campaigns because most people who are interested in tennis and sport in general will prefer the ATP to the WTA. :shrug:

Bismarck.
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Ah yes another doomsday thread. 2012 anyone? .. The WTA is the biggest female sporting organization on the planet and I personally don't see any threat to that. Oh wait. Synchronized swimming perhaps, as they have those so by some TF posters coverted 'style points' .. You can also whine and moan here as much as you like, WTA is stronger than ever. Little know fact, YEC 2010 viewing numbers 20% up on 2009. Impressive :worship:

It always amazes me how much shit synchronized swimming gets from people like you. :lol: You know, it is actually quite a difficult sport.

miffedmax
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:27 PM
It's difficult. It requires great athleticism. You have to work your ass off to be good at it.

But it's still retarded.

PandoraPandora
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:33 PM
After Henin's retirement, the WTA is on such a precarious balance right now. It's hard not to get resigned when a key elite player has dropped out, and thus great rivalries with it. Nostlagic? Maybe, but it shows how much tennis depended upon players like Henin, and the reality is such that the non-retired elite (Venus, Serena, Clijsters) are aproaching the end of their careers too. The foundations for commercial, crowd and lasting aesthetic appeal in women's tennis seems to be fading by the day.

In all truthfulness the elevated positions of players like Radwanksa, Wozniacki, Azarenka etc, is not really their fault, but it shows the void in which women's tennis has been attempting to over-compensate for years now. These players are just unequipped for greatness at the highest level, and who do we look to? Venus cannot stay healthy for more than 2 months a year now, Serena is dangerously close to permanent inactivity, Clijsters is part-time and won't be able to sustain her body throughout the remainder of her career, without suffering the same fate as the other two.


This is not an angry thread, but more a thread of sorrow. We are entering a very dark period in the WTA's history, and the solutions seem futile. I would hate for the WTA to become a perennial side-show to the ATP and be disregarded. It's so much better than that.

I am bored with these type of threads. The Tour survived 20 months without Henin and will survive without her, period. She was not a household name, unlike Serena or Venus. Kim is far more well known than her. I follow tennis for many players, and Henin isn't one of them. I have been gripped by all the tournaments since I started following the Tour.

I think people who post this sort of doom and gloom are just old or getting old. Like old grannies saying how things were better in the past. Even when they weren't. If you don't like it, don't watch it, and watch re-runs or DVDs of historical matches.

TennisFan66
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:33 PM
It always amazes me how much shit synchronized swimming gets from people like you. :lol: You know, it is actually quite a difficult sport.

I am sure it is. Did I claim it wasn't? Synchornized swimming is GOAT because there are style points and its all so very pretty. We should have a TF poll. ''Who has the prettiets swim''.

Other good sport with style points: Figure skating .. *snap* .. and those beautiful costumes ..:kiss:

PS How many times have I mentioned synchronized swimming before? .. Here's a hint: None.

Bismarck.
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:34 PM
It's difficult. It requires great athleticism. You have to work your ass off to be good at it.

But it's still retarded.

I didn't say that it wasn't. :lol: I just don't think they get enough credit because it's really hard.

edificio
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:34 PM
I don't see how this will affect the WTA in one way or the other. There are plenty of other players. Let us recall her first retirement and the WTA:

May 14th, 2008

Henin Retirement Statement by WTA Tour CEO Larry Scott

by Staff

Statement of Larry Scott, CEO, Sony Ericsson WTA Tour, in re Justine Henin Retirement Announcement:

“Justine Henin will be remembered as one of the all-time great champions in women’s tennis, and a woman who made up for her lack of size with a will to win and fighting spirit that was second to none. It is rare that an athlete leaves at the very top of her game in this day and age, but Justine has always played by her own rules, in the very best sense of those words.

History will remember Justine for not only her seven Grand Slam titles and three years finishing as the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour’s World No. 1, but for one of the most graceful backhands the sport has ever seen and an ability to overcome any and all obstacles placed in her way on the tennis court and off.

This is a sad day for our sport and for her millions of fans around the world, but I know that I speak for so many in wishing Justine the very best in her future endeavors and hope that she will stay connected to the sport to which she gave so much.”

Mistress of Evil
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:34 PM
The Apocalypse is coming, 2012 is not that far away. :) Golden Flower JuJu Heng is the Messiah.:worship:
WTA has just switched on self-destruction mode. :yeah:

edificio
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:37 PM
When they are gone(Serena, Venus, Kim, and lets face it Maria), many will turn to ATP. I wouldn't be surprised if the tour no longer felt the need to feature at least one womens match on the main court until the quarters.

:confused: Sounds like some dystopic Mens Tennis Forum fantasy.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:37 PM
Eventually the whole group that was around in 2000 will be gone.
With an Olympics at Wimbledon, 2012 could be it for most all of them.

terjw
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:38 PM
WTA is way bigger than any individual player and is in no danger whatsoever of dying. The LPGA is in bigger danger - but even that is in no danger of dying.

There's plenty of tournaments that have been atttracting good crowds without the big four or Sharapova present and they will continue to do so. And as for slams -there's always interest at the slams.

What would be really good is if the whiners and moaners buggerred off from here If they don't like it at the moment - that would be the intelligent thing would be to do. But no - they just moan and whine. There are no signs at all of anything as good as that happening.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:52 PM
...
What would be really good is if the whiners and moaners buggerred off from here If they don't like it at the moment - that would be the intelligent thing would be to do. But no - they just moan and whine. There are no signs at all of anything as good as that happening.I understand how people want every top player healthy & in form all the time. That's not possible in world class sports.
3 billion women on the planet, and everyone who was capable of winning this AO was in this draw.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:54 PM
WTA is way bigger than any individual player and is in no danger whatsoever of dying. The LPGA is in bigger danger - but even that is in no danger of dying.

There's plenty of tournaments that have been atttracting good crowds without the big four or Sharapova present and they will continue to do so. And as for slams -there's always interest at the slams.

What would be really good is if the whiners and moaners buggerred off from here If they don't like it at the moment - that would be the intelligent thing would be to do. But no - they just moan and whine. There are no signs at all of anything as good as that happening.

Word for word I agree.

Viktymise
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Justine was largely irrelevant since her comeback. It's not a big loss. Dementieva retiring was a bigger loss.

Not irrelevant enough to lose to Failniacki obviously. :lol:

Monzanator
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:33 PM
The guard change is happening right in front of our eyes, folks (Li Na being a late bloomer and Kim coming back having a totally differend mindset then before). It's about Woz, Kvitova, Radwanska and Azarenka now with one or two exceptions. It would be interesting to see how Serena handles the whole thing but I guess we'll have to wait until Miami to see her play. If she skips that, then it's almost all over for her and one wonders if she only shows up at USO to announce her retirement (I know it's a long shot but with Dementieva and Henin's unexpected quit calls, it can't be completely ruled out).

Joana
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:34 PM
It's about Woz, Kvitova, Radwanska and Azarenka now with one or two exceptions.

Yeah, which is exactly what makes it so depressing.

Monzanator
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:38 PM
Well, it had to happen one day :shrug: Serena and Venus still pushed it quite a long way being on the verge of 30s still inside the Top 10...

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:41 PM
It wont just be Caro, Aga, Vika, Petra.
Vera, Na Stosur will be around, and some of the younger players will step up, or slower developing players will be there.
But we might have a lot of different slam winners 2011-2015

The Dawntreader
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:44 PM
People acting like Radwanska, Woz are comparable and worthy successors. New Generations are supposed to force out the old generation, not hide behind the sofa and wait for them all to retire.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:48 PM
There was a generation after the big 4. That was Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Jankovic, Ivanovic.
This is the next generation with Caro Vika, Petra and Aga
Then there are the 15,16 year olds coming up.
They're all overlapping
Li and Fran are probably more the big 4 generation than Sveta's.

The Dawntreader
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:49 PM
There was a generation after the big 4. That was Kuznetsova, Sharapova, Jankovic, Ivanovic.
This is the next generation with Caro and Aga
Then there are the 15,16 year olds coming up.
They're all overlapping

Who? And to what kind of ultimate success?

Sergius
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:52 PM
What would be really good is if the whiners and moaners buggerred off from here If they don't like it at the moment - that would be the intelligent thing would be to do. But no - they just moan and whine. There are no signs at all of anything as good as that happening.

There is nothing wrong with this moaning. It's a normal thing. I'm quite optimistic about the future of women tennis but it's so frustrating for me to see how the players that made me love the sport and who were at their best when I started following tennis(Myskina, Hingis - well, they've done it long before but still - , WS, Henin, Dementieva) now quit. So here comes the frustration. And I think other people feel the same :shrug:
And I'm also sure that most of the people who're whining about it would leave the board when their favourites retires b/c plenty of them are mostly fans of certain players not tennis.

People acting like Radwanska, Woz are comparable and worthy successors. New Generations are supposed to force out the old generation, not hide behind the sofa and wait for them all to retire.
Still, new generation are not worse than the previous ones. That's the rule of life. The new great players will come sooner or later.

debby
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:52 PM
People acting like Radwanska, Woz are comparable and worthy successors. New Generations are supposed to force out the old generation, not hide behind the sofa and wait for them all to retire.

Thank you, I was not finding the right words, but that's exactly that.
New generations should take the power by themselves, not when the old one is gone. :tape:

And Na is turning 29 soon.

V's a star
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:53 PM
People acting like Radwanska, Woz are comparable and worthy successors. New Generations are supposed to force out the old generation, not hide behind the sofa and wait for them all to retire.

lol true.

All i can say its going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

new-york
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:56 PM
*Calls Hingis.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Who? And to what kind of ultimate success?
I wouldnt even guess which 15 year olds. There was a tv show about Sharapova when she was 15 and Nick B. said she has the work ethic of an adult. And she pushed hard. That was an era when Capriati, Hingis & Kournikova had made millions by 16. Seles was a clear #1 at 17.
Now the teens advance slower, and we dont know who steps up. Its as much mental as their games.

TennisFan66
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:57 PM
WTA is way bigger than any individual player and is in no danger whatsoever of dying. The LPGA is in bigger danger - but even that is in no danger of dying.

There's plenty of tournaments that have been atttracting good crowds without the big four or Sharapova present and they will continue to do so. And as for slams -there's always interest at the slams.

What would be really good is if the whiners and moaners buggerred off from here If they don't like it at the moment - that would be the intelligent thing would be to do. But no - they just moan and whine. There are no signs at all of anything as good as that happening.

Yep. Totally agree. :yeah:

kman
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:00 PM
Well, the best era is about over. When Serena and Venus retire it'll be official. The tour needs some girls with talent AND personality. There needs to be some rivalries, drama, and bitchiness. If I wanted to watch boring players, with no personalities, acting like robots on court then I would watch men's tennis.

How about this. Every time you want to watch tennis, you watch tennis. Every time you want to watch bitchiness, you put on an episode of Jersey Shore.

How hard can it be :rolleyes:

kman
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:04 PM
Not irrelevant enough to lose to Failniacki obviously. :lol:

Lisicki is 2-1 against Caroline. Yet she was never relevant.

Bammer is 2-0 against Serena. Yet she was never relevant.

LCS
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:09 PM
As much as I like Dementieva, Justine made a better season than Elena did last year, and Justine beat her twice. So I don't see where Elena was more relevant than Justine.

Both are a huge loss for the game.

We are headed for a crappy era but then some players will emerge and it will be amazing again. How long it will take ?

Of course.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Lisicki has weapons, like Groth. Its possible they will be late developers, like Stosur.
Its hard to say, but there has been a paradigm shift.
Players arent winning majors at 17 anymore. But Fran at 29, now Li or Vera, might win their 1st major after a decade on the tour.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Thank you, I was not finding the right words, but that's exactly that.
New generations should take the power by themselves, not when the old one is gone. :tape:

And Na is turning 29 soon.

I do agree that there is no one in the upcoming generation that is likely to match the acheivements and success of the big 4 of the last generation. I also agree that in a perfect world the torch from one generation to another should be passed when the younger generation starts beating up on the older generation.

However in fairness to the new generation, it isn't really the young generations fault that some of the older generation are falling apart physically before the younger generation could get a crack at them. Had Justine continued we could very well have seen the next generation beating her.

theFutureisNow
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:23 PM
A lot of people on here love to complain about how bad the current top players are. But the junior players are doing absolutely nothing.
So there are only 2 logical possibilities-

While no one is dominating, the overall level of tennis being played is still fairly high.

The junior generation coming up(16-19) is truly horrific.

I think the first option is the more likely one.

Break My Rapture
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:24 PM
The new generation is certainly not as grand and majestic in their early stages.
To be quite selfish though, I would've liked more Henin/Wozniacki matches and of course a showdown between Henin and Azarenka to see how they match up.

Onjanae.
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:32 PM
I do agree that there is no one in the upcoming generation that is likely to match the acheivements and success of the big 4 of the last generation. I also agree that in a perfect world the torch from one generation to another should be passed when the younger generation starts beating up on the older generation.

However in fairness to the new generation, it isn't really the young generations fault that some of the older generation are falling apart physically before the younger generation could get a crack at them. Had Justine continued we could very well have seen the next generation beating her.

Exactly. The girls still celebrate like it's NYE when they get a win over Venus so she's playing her part :lol:. Kim is looking really beatable, I think this mediocre form is here to stay. Hopefully some of these girls - Kuzzy, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Wozniacki, Azarenka and whomever else is promising can take full advantage. Kim's recent success and growing list of achievements can only add prestige and confidence building potential when the girls beat her.

I'm still convinced Henin retiring like she did in 2008 caused a lot of problems we've seen with the ladies (named Kuzzy, Ivanovic and Jankovic), but natural order can still be restored provided Kim doesn't decide on another farewell tour, and along with the WS, plays the role of the hunted. Sharpening up the hunter instincts in the new generation that usually are a precurser for a solid and sustained rise.

darrinbaker00
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:40 PM
It's difficult. It requires great athleticism. You have to work your ass off to be good at it.

But it's still retarded.

Synchronized swimming is not a sport; it's a scene from a Busby Berkeley movie. ;)

Temperenka
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:46 PM
For me, as badly as I feel for Justine and her fans... this doesn't seem monumental to me.

She was only back for half of a year. The WTA will be at the same place that it was after Wimbledon last year.

Serena leaving will be the big one. But after her retirement, Justine wasn't really relevant for too long. It's almost like she never un-retired.

Annie.
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:47 PM
How about this. Every time you want to watch tennis, you watch tennis. Every time you want to watch bitchiness, you put on an episode of Jersey Shore.

How hard can it be :rolleyes:

Or, how about you have a nice tall glass of shut the hell up and let me want what I want. Now how hard can that be?! :shrug:

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 09:56 PM
However in fairness to the new generation, it isn't really the young generations fault that some of the older generation are falling apart physically before the younger generation could get a crack at them. Had Justine continued we could very well have seen the next generation beating her.

The new generation of Wozniacki, Azarenka, Radwanska, Petkovic, whoever etc. have had plenty a crack at the older players over the past couple of seasons and have failed at nearly every opportunity. Wozniacki lost to Justine in 2010, the year she ended ranked #1. That was as fair a crack as you will get between old and new.

I think the younger generation have had ample opportunity to dethrone. But haven't succeeded. The best players started to cut the older ones down when they were not long past their prime, like Chris Evert starting to beat King and Court in the early 70's, like Graf ending Navratilova's streak at Wimbledon, like both the Williams sisters getting big wins over Graf in 1999.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:25 PM
The new generation of Wozniacki, Azarenka, Radwanska, Petkovic, whoever etc. have had plenty a crack at the older players over the past couple of seasons and have failed at nearly every opportunity. Wozniacki lost to Justine in 2010, the year she ended ranked #1. That was as fair a crack as you will get between old and new.

I think the younger generation have had ample opportunity to dethrone. But haven't succeeded. The best players started to cut the older ones down when they were not long past their prime, like Chris Evert starting to beat King and Court in the early 70's, like Graf ending Navratilova's streak at Wimbledon, like both the Williams sisters getting big wins over Graf in 1999.

It often takes the new guard time to beat the old guard. Evert beat Graf the 1st 6 times they played. Navratilova beat Graf the 1st three times they played. King beat Navratilova the 1st three times they played. King beat Evert the 1st three times they played in Grand Slams. The Williams sisters both lost the 1st time they played Graf. Serena lost the 1st 4 matches she played against Arantxa Sanchez Vicario. Venus also lost her 1st match against ASV.

sammy01
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:28 PM
I just don't wanna see slams being handed out to whoever sucks less. in 2003 serena had to claw her way past kim at the oz open, henin had to fight tooth and nail to overcome serena at RG, venus had to fight off kim and injury to make the wimbledon final and henin had to go to the very brink of her well being to get passed capriati.

slams were earn't and the best were forced to play their best to earn them. if caro's best is 13 winners in 3 sets then that says it all

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:31 PM
Thats 2003. What happened in 2004?
That's sports. These are the best players in the world.
There aren't any potential AO champions just sitting around not competing. Except Dementieva, who isnt motivated to be there

Pops Maellard
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Please come back Serena. :sobbing:

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:39 PM
It often takes the new guard time to beat the old guard. Evert beat Graf the 1st 6 times they played. Navratilova beat Graf the 1st three times they played. King beat Navratilova the 1st three times they played. King beat Evert the 1st three times they played in Grand Slams. The Williams sisters both lost the 1st time they played Graf. Serena lost the 1st 4 matches she played against Arantxa Sanchez Vicario. Venus also lost her 1st match against ASV.

That was in the days where top players used to play each other more regularly, so they racked up more losses, but then more wins. Evert beat Graf 6 times, two players in the top 10 might meet 6 times in 10 years with the way draws pan out these days. Serena lost her first four matches to ASV, but then won the next few.

And of course part of the reason Graf was losing often to Evert was because she was making it far in big events at a prodigously young age. 4 or so years younger than the young players we are currently talking about.

It does take time to beat the old guard - they have had sometime - the implication is that they should, therefore, start winning these kinds of matches soon. Well it'll be interesting to see how the semis pan out, and the rest of this year. I do think it could be an interesting year if some of the younger players lighten up the slams.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:43 PM
These aren't young players in the AO semis, except for Caroline.
The 2nd youngest is Vera, who lost to Serena in the 2002 FO and then beat Venus at the FO in 2003 when Serena & Venus were meeting in every slam final.
2002 FO Vera beat Fran in round 3, lost to Serena in R of 16. Almost 9 years ago
Caroline is the only young player still in this tournament

Viktymise
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:43 PM
Lisicki is 2-1 against Caroline. Yet she was never relevant.

Bammer is 2-0 against Serena. Yet she was never relevant.

Well Failniacki is 0-354647562342 against anybody that actually is relevant so I think that's a tad damning, no?

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:48 PM
... is 0-354647562342 against anybody that actually is relevant so I think that's a tad damning, no?
Caroline beat Vera 3 of the last 4 times they met. Vera was in the last 2 slam finals.
After Fran won the FO, Caroline beat her 3 straight times.
You have a strange list of who is relevant

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Caroline is the only young player still in this tournament

Well this is potentially a problem. You'd think at a slam where the best of the older bunch don't really do anything, there would be more of the new creme showing through.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 10:54 PM
Players develop later. Fran and Li, if you said they would be 2 of the best players in 2002 when they were 22 & 20, no one would believe it.

The Dawntreader
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Li has been making the second week of GSs on and off for several years, Fran has been playing top flight tennis for many seasons. It's simply the case that they stepped up to the plate this slam while most of the younger players failed to do so.

Exactly, Vera and Li were making QF's as far back as '03 and '06. The fact that they are stepping up now doesn't signify any new generation. It's just the previous generation holding the pillars aloft as usual.

theFutureisNow
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:04 PM
Well Failniacki is 0-354647562342 against anybody that actually is relevant so I think that's a tad damning, no?

Who is relevant right now in women's tennis?

Clijsters and Zvonareva.
Everyone else is either playing bad or not playing at all. Hard to beat someone when they aren't around to play.

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:04 PM
Li has been making the second week of GSs on and off for several years, Fran has been playing top flight tennis for many seasons. It's simply the case that they stepped up to the plate this slam while most of the younger players failed to do so.

Volcana
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:05 PM
who do we look to?
The thing, we have something now we haven't had in a while. Players who win with superweapons.

Wozniacki, Zvonareva, Schiavone, Li, they all have to do their winning by playing better. What we have to look forward to is more tactical tennis, for a bit. You have to admit, it's entertaining to watch Schiavone set up points. Another couple of super-athletes will come along in the next couple years, but the tennis at OZ this years has been entertaining.

JJ, and Kuzzy and Stosur all have more than a few great matches left in them.

And Maria Sharapova is just going to have to buy Amelie Mauresmo's book, learn to volley and re-invent herself.

It's funny, but the era of big-babe tennis is fading. Likely only temporarily, but the best of the under-25 bashers were Safina and Sharapova. Neither is showing signs of returning to the top.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:10 PM
There's more depth and the women are stronger.
So young players need more time to be able to hang with them.
There was some decent play by young players at this tournament, they just didnt win, except for Caroline
Like I said a few posts ago, Vera beat Fran in the 2002 FO round 3, then lost to Serena.
It took Vera and Fran years to reach a level of play & mental toughness to compete for a major.

SM
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:18 PM
the wta goes push, push, push!

Njalle
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:24 PM
Who is relevant right now in women's tennis?

Clijsters and Zvonareva.
Everyone else is either playing bad or not playing at all. Hard to beat someone when they aren't around to play.

To Viktymise, the definition of relevant is anyone who has never lost to Caro. Too bad his list gets shorter and shorter :lol:

AcesHigh
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:38 PM
The thing, we have something now we haven't had in a while. Players who win with superweapons.

Wozniacki, Zvonareva, Schiavone, Li, they all have to do their winning by playing better. What we have to look forward to is more tactical tennis, for a bit. You have to admit, it's entertaining to watch Schiavone set up points. Another couple of super-athletes will come along in the next couple years, but the tennis at OZ this years has been entertaining.

JJ, and Kuzzy and Stosur all have more than a few great matches left in them.

And Maria Sharapova is just going to have to buy Amelie Mauresmo's book, learn to volley and re-invent herself.

It's funny, but the era of big-babe tennis is fading. Likely only temporarily, but the best of the under-25 bashers were Safina and Sharapova. Neither is showing signs of returning to the top.

I actually agree with this. When big-babe tennis took over, a lot of fans abandoned the game. They missed the days of extended rallies and tactical tennis. They slammed "ballbashing" like TF posters now slam "pushing". But a whole new group of fans started to follow tennis.
And just like previous eras, old fans will fade and new fans will join.

Corswandt
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:38 PM
Where does the WTA go now?

No fucking clue.

As for myself, Fed Cup livestreams Saturday the 29th.

TennisLurker
Jan 27th, 2011, 12:39 AM
I see the current WTA tour, as if a terrorist attack had blew up the Year End Championship killing the best 8 players, and now the player formerly ranked 9 is the new number 1.

The 2 Williams, the 2 Belgians, Hingis, Davenport, Capriati and Mauresmo were in their peak really good players, nowadays the only 2 special good players are Kim and Serena. Venus is a has been, Sharapova too.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 27th, 2011, 02:17 AM
I actually agree with this. When big-babe tennis took over, a lot of fans abandoned the game. They missed the days of extended rallies and tactical tennis. They slammed "ballbashing" like TF posters now slam "pushing". But a whole new group of fans started to follow tennis.
And just like previous eras, old fans will fade and new fans will join.

Good analogy. Tennis does indeed tend to go in cycles.

pcrtennis
Jan 27th, 2011, 02:22 AM
they need to get rid of Wozniacki...she's boring and you can't have boring, bland players like her at the top.

AnomyBC
Jan 27th, 2011, 02:55 AM
they need to get rid of Wozniacki...she's boring and you can't have boring, bland players like her at the top.

Honestly, Wozniacki has got to be at least 100 times as exciting as Henin. Henin was probably the most boring #1 in the history of tennis. Caro is young and attractive and fresh and interesting and likable, and probably someone that a lot of young girls can identify with. Not a bad player to have at the top at all I think.

Pops Maellard
Jan 27th, 2011, 02:57 AM
Honestly, Wozniacki has got to be at least 100 times as exciting as Henin. Henin was probably the most boring #1 in the history of tennis. Caro is young and attractive and fresh and interesting and likable, and probably someone that a lot of young girls can identify with. Not a bad player to have at the top at all I think.

Until she picks up a tennis racket.

Smitten
Jan 27th, 2011, 03:41 AM
I actually agree with this. When big-babe tennis took over, a lot of fans abandoned the game.

Which era/dates are you talking about?

sorceress
Jan 27th, 2011, 03:52 AM
I dunno, but I'm getting less and less interested.
You can use the argument 'older generations' all you want but the fact is these younger players don't hold a candle to the originals who are still competing.
And honestly, if Wozniacki is going to feature....I'll lose interest very quickly...because I don't enjoy watching her at all.

Stosur,Kuznetsova, Li Na, Schiavone, Sharapova can compete well if they keep their game good but it's so rare they can.
Apart from that I think it's Kim and Serena carrying the torch - I don't think Venus is going to last much longer, these injuries are looking bad and she might just have to hang up the shoes.

Lucemferre
Jan 27th, 2011, 03:55 AM
Down the toilet.

goldenlox
Jan 27th, 2011, 03:58 AM
I think this a big match for the WTA. Li is so important to the WTA.

Raiden
Jan 27th, 2011, 03:58 AM
I actually agree with this. When big-babe tennis took over, a lot of fans abandoned the game. They missed the days of extended rallies and tactical tennis. They slammed "ballbashing" like TF posters now slam "pushing". But a whole new group of fans started to follow tennis.
And just like previous eras, old fans will fade and new fans will join.The power level of hardhitting tennis was always gonna be reduced when the Williams sisters started to fade. That was a given from the beginning. It was just that no one anticipated an outright reversal of trend and resurgence of "pushing"

DeliriousPotato
Jan 27th, 2011, 04:52 AM
Well, I'm actually quite pleased to see that this Australian Open was really very exciting even without the Williams sisters. two years ago, a Grand Slam without a Williams was simply a bore to behold.
In my opinion, the WTA has improved, I still remember that the most common posts in 2009 were "ugh, that's it, I'm laying off the WTA for a while".

goldenlox
Jan 27th, 2011, 05:24 AM
The WTA needs 1 more thing. Li to win the final.
Kim looks good now, so it wont be easy.
But the WTA is sitting on a goldmine if Li wins and the Chinese media/government get behind womens tennis

Polikarpov
Jan 27th, 2011, 05:55 AM
When the ATP was experiencing a similar drought back in 2000, they launched the "New Balls, Please" ad campaign which aimed to thoroughly promote the up and coming young guns of men's tennis to the world. The original campaign featured Federer, Kuerten, Hewitt, Safin, Ferrero, Gambill, Haas, and Zabaleta. The ATP pimped up rivalries among the said eight. They also advertised these youngsters as the biggest threats to the old guards: Sampras, Agassi, Rafter, Kafelnikov, etc. The campaign was successful because shortly after, the "new balls" indeed stepped it up, with Safin defeating Sampras in the final of the US Open, and Kuerten ending the year No. 1.

I'm thinking that the WTA could employ a similar marketing strategy. But the biggest difference of course is that ATP had genuine rising talents then, while the WTA does not. The biggest challenge is whether the WTA can find girls who are charismatic and are good enough to live up to the hype they will create.

Becool
Jan 27th, 2011, 05:58 AM
Players got tons of talent but NONE personality whatsoever..

Yeah, women's tennis will be boring