PDA

View Full Version : The Reliable Three


QuietPlease
Jan 24th, 2011, 05:40 PM
The Reliable Three

WTA's name for Caro, Vera & Kim:

http://www.wtatour.com/news/20110124/five-first-week-findings_2256076_2274571

1. Three's Company
For all the focus on Justine, Maria and Venus - legendary champions, to be sure - there are three reliable competitors at the moment: Caroline Wozniacki, Vera Zvonareva, and supermom Kim Clijsters. Appropriately, all three are still in the hunt for both the title and the No.1 ranking next week.

They have a point. Win/loss past six months (since Wimby, incl AO 4R):

Caro: 36-5
Kim: 26-3
Vera: 26-8 (32-9 incl Wimby)

And they pretty much only lose to each other.

The only others to beat them past six months:

Kim: Na Li
Caro: Cibulkova, Stosur, Bartoli
Vera: Pennetta, Elena D. and, eh... Coco Wandeweghe :tape:

PLP
Jan 24th, 2011, 05:47 PM
Interesting blog...I had no idea Petkovic was 23!
Awesome for her, I love to see late bloomers start to come into her own. She had injury problems didn't she?

goldenlox
Jan 24th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Looking at those numbers reminds me how close Sharapova was to beating Kim last summer.
After Caro beat Maria, she seemed to go backwards, losing to Krumm, Vesnina, Arn, & badly to Petkovic

roelc
Jan 24th, 2011, 06:03 PM
i was thinking the same thing today.

before you had the Big 4 (sisters and belgians), and since wimbledon it seems like everything is going between kim, caro and vera
at the 2 biggest tournaments, USO and YEC, they all reached the semis
in the meanwhile caro and vera played a few finals
kim and caro won several tournaments

Lapaco
Jan 24th, 2011, 06:40 PM
Because their draws are jokes with everyone relevant being in terminal slumps or injured.

Benesova, Sevastova and Makarova in R16 :rolls:

goldenlox
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:00 PM
Because their draws are jokes with everyone relevant being in terminal slumps or injured.

Benesova, Sevastova and Makarova in R16 :rolls:List all these "relevant" players. Do you mean Maria, Ana, Jelena, Justine? Not too relevant.

Lapaco
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:07 PM
List all these "relevant" players. Do you mean Maria, Ana, Jelena, Justine? Not too relevant.

Serena, Venus, Justine, even Jankovic.

duhcity
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Because their draws are jokes with everyone relevant being in terminal slumps or injured.

Benesova, Sevastova and Makarova in R16 :rolls:

If they're in terminal slumps, how are they relevant? If they're absent from the tour, how are they relevant?

goldenlox
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:12 PM
Serena, Venus, Justine, even Jankovic.Serena hasnt played since July, who knows what's going on.
Venus lost to Li, Petrova, Pironkova, Clijsters at majors last year
Jankovic? Is that a joke?
Henin played well, that's a tough section Fran came thru. Why dont you give Fran some credit instead of acting like post retirement Henin is a great player.

AcesHigh
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:18 PM
If they're in terminal slumps, how are they relevant? If they're absent from the tour, how are they relevant?

Bingo.
People need to get over the past or just move on. It's 2011

Lapaco
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:23 PM
If they're in terminal slumps, how are they relevant? If they're absent from the tour, how are they relevant?

I know. It's a sad state of affairs.

hingis-forever
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Interesting blog...I had no idea Petkovic was 23!
Awesome for her, I love to see late bloomers start to come into her own. She had injury problems didn't she?

No, but she never focused on tennis before. She did quite lot of things as studying and else and was not sure if she wanted a career as tennis pro.
after her injury in 08 she got the feeling tennis is what she wanted.
and she told a few days ago, that this is her first season where she only focus on tennis and stopped doing more hobbies instead of practice.

Roookie
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Reliable yes and boring as hell too. Kim being the exception

Lapaco
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:32 PM
Reliable yes and boring as hell too. Kim being the exception

This. Although Kim is becoming boring too.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 24th, 2011, 07:58 PM
Fans of the ol' big four won't like this. But the truth is right now for better or worse, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva are the top 3 in the world and certainly the three most consistent players on the tour and the toughest to defeat as well.

I know how the arguments go...yeah but they are only winning because the real big 4 are either not fit or or they are out with injuries. It is true. This can't be questioned. Venus and Justine are both struggling for fitness and not at their best and of course the "real" number 1 is AWOL. Once the "real" number one returns from injuries she will quickly restore world order and reclaim her place as the best current player in the world, it is argued.

But will she? Serena Williams will be thirty immediately after the US Open. Winning Grand Slams after the age of 30 is a very rare thing. Of the 172 Grand Slam titles given out in the Open Era only 11 of them have gone to players over thirty. Only five players in the Open Era can claim to have won a Grand Slam title past their 30th birthday and none of those 5 won more than 3. And Incredibly only one single Grand Slam title has been won past the age of 32.

When Serena Williams returns to tennis, and there is no indication yet as to when that might be, she will at the very least match her longest period of inactivity since becoming pro, that period being between Wimbledon 2003 to Miami 2004. When Serena came back at Miami she did win her 1st tournament back. However she would then go on to win only three more titles, two of them the Australian Open, over the next three years.

This time around, she will be substantially older than in 2004 and unlike 2004 when the death of her sister was largely responsible for Serena's extended leave of the tour, this time she will be out soley due to her foot injury, an injury that has pretty much prevented her from practicing for almost the entire period she has been out.

Personally I would say to assume she will simply pick up where she left off after such an extended time out is optimistic at best. Anyone who follows the game knows how difficult it is for most players on the tour to regain their preinjury form when they have been forced to take an extended period away from the tour. Given the severity of her injury, the extended period out and her age, I do not believe we can comfortably assume she will ever return to her preinjury form.

I know I will probably be labeled a "hater" for stating this but I do not consider that to be justified. My motivation in writing this is simply to encourage her fans to have realistic expectations once she does return to the tour and thereby prevent themselves from being too disappointed if it turns out she is unable to regain her preinjury level.

Let me be very clear, Serena Williams is without question the best player of her generation and one of the four or five best players of the open era. Furthermore there is not a single player in the game who has even the smallest remotest chance of surpassing her accomplishments. But she is still flesh and blood. Injuries can hamper even the best of players from returning to their best level. We only need to look at Sharapova to be reminded of this.

Perhaps, great champion that she is, Serena Williams will be that rare exception, a player who can comeback from an extended period off and pick up where she left off. She certainly has sprung some impressive surprises in the past. But I would have to say were Serena to comeback after this foot injury and go on to win more Grand Slams I would consider it to be the most remarkable and impressive achievement of her career and you can put it on record that should that happen I will be as fullsome with praise and admiration as any of her fans could be.

That said, until the time that Serena proves that she is back as a force and for that matter until such time as Venus and Henin demostrate they are back as forces I think we have to accept that right now the three best players in the world are indeed the three who are the highest ranked namely, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva.

goldenlox
Jan 24th, 2011, 08:02 PM
I dont know how good Serena will be. Sharapova is still young, but its starting to look like she will never be the same.

QuietPlease
Jan 25th, 2011, 05:33 PM
i was thinking the same thing today.

before you had the Big 4 (sisters and belgians), and since wimbledon it seems like everything is going between kim, caro and vera
at the 2 biggest tournaments, USO and YEC, they all reached the semis
in the meanwhile caro and vera played a few finals
kim and caro won several tournaments

Perhaps again in AO? We'll know in 10 hours.

And their dominance is showing on the rankings, as of today according to TBE:

1 Caro 8655
2 Kim 7015
3 Vera 7005
4 Fran 5055

Even if all 3 lose their next match there's a 2000 point gap to #4.

GAGAlady
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Fans of the ol' big four won't like this. But the truth is right now for better or worse, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva are the top 3 in the world and certainly the three most consistent players on the tour and the toughest to defeat as well.

I know how the arguments go...yeah but they are only winning because the real big 4 are either not fit or or they are out with injuries. It is true. This can't be questioned. Venus and Justine are both struggling for fitness and not at their best and of course the "real" number 1 is AWOL. Once the "real" number one returns from injuries she will quickly restore world order and reclaim her place as the best current player in the world, it is argued.

But will she? Serena Williams will be thirty immediately after the US Open. Winning Grand Slams after the age of 30 is a very rare thing. Of the 172 Grand Slam titles given out in the Open Era only 11 of them have gone to players over thirty. Only five players in the Open Era can claim to have won a Grand Slam title past their 30th birthday and none of those 5 won more than 3. And Incredibly only one single Grand Slam title has been won past the age of 32.

When Serena Williams returns to tennis, and there is no indication yet as to when that might be, she will at the very least match her longest period of inactivity since becoming pro, that period being between Wimbledon 2003 to Miami 2004. When Serena came back at Miami she did win her 1st tournament back. However she would then go on to win only three more titles, two of them the Australian Open, over the next three years.

This time around, she will be substantially older than in 2004 and unlike 2004 when the death of her sister was largely responsible for Serena's extended leave of the tour, this time she will be out soley due to her foot injury, an injury that has pretty much prevented her from practicing for almost the entire period she has been out.

Personally I would say to assume she will simply pick up where she left off after such an extended time out is optimistic at best. Anyone who follows the game knows how difficult it is for most players on the tour to regain their preinjury form when they have been forced to take an extended period away from the tour. Given the severity of her injury, the extended period out and her age, I do not believe we can comfortably assume she will ever return to her preinjury form.

I know I will probably be labeled a "hater" for stating this but I do not consider that to be justified. My motivation in writing this is simply to encourage her fans to have realistic expectations once she does return to the tour and thereby prevent themselves from being too disappointed if it turns out she is unable to regain her preinjury level.

Let me be very clear, Serena Williams is without question the best player of her generation and one of the four or five best players of the open era. Furthermore there is not a single player in the game who has even the smallest remotest chance of surpassing her accomplishments. But she is still flesh and blood. Injuries can hamper even the best of players from returning to their best level. We only need to look at Sharapova to be reminded of this.

Perhaps, great champion that she is, Serena Williams will be that rare exception, a player who can comeback from an extended period off and pick up where she left off. She certainly has sprung some impressive surprises in the past. But I would have to say were Serena to comeback after this foot injury and go on to win more Grand Slams I would consider it to be the most remarkable and impressive achievement of her career and you can put it on record that should that happen I will be as fullsome with praise and admiration as any of her fans could be.

That said, until the time that Serena proves that she is back as a force and for that matter until such time as Venus and Henin demostrate they are back as forces I think we have to accept that right now the three best players in the world are indeed the three who are the highest ranked namely, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva.

that was well said!

it-girl
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:32 PM
Considering that several players were out last year and sufferering from injuries I think time will only tell. It is far to early to say they are the reliable 3 because they have not proved this over several years nor do Caro or Vera have the title wins at a slam to give them any special place above proven champions yet. This year will be very telling once the injured players return to their best forms and are healthy enough to compete on a consistent basis.

I would say they have been the most consistent of the active players but not the most reliable. Because no matter how you look at it Serena Williams still won 2 slams last year and has been injured. Venus & Henin both have been injured as well as Maria. Ana has constantly had nagging injuries but shows signs of life if she can stay healthy. Kuznetsova has also improved. I would say that right now they are the ones who have been healthy enough to play their best tennis on a consistent basis.

It will be interesting to see what happens once all of the players are healthy for a nice run and in the mix.

GoofyDuck
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:47 PM
I think it is quite good that at US open these 3 were all in the semifinals... now 1 already is and 2 possible still can..

they might not be everyones favourite players etc... but they do live up their seedings.. :)

sweetpeas
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:48 PM
Perhaps, great champion that she is, Serena Williams will be that rare exception, a player who can comeback from an extended period off and pick up where she left off. She certainly has sprung some impressive surprises in the past.



Lord you're right,but how many times has Serena came back and took it all? I think every time?

StephenUK
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:50 PM
Fans of the ol' big four won't like this. But the truth is right now for better or worse, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva are the top 3 in the world and certainly the three most consistent players on the tour and the toughest to defeat as well.

I know how the arguments go...yeah but they are only winning because the real big 4 are either not fit or or they are out with injuries. It is true. This can't be questioned. Venus and Justine are both struggling for fitness and not at their best and of course the "real" number 1 is AWOL. Once the "real" number one returns from injuries she will quickly restore world order and reclaim her place as the best current player in the world, it is argued.

But will she? Serena Williams will be thirty immediately after the US Open. Winning Grand Slams after the age of 30 is a very rare thing. Of the 172 Grand Slam titles given out in the Open Era only 11 of them have gone to players over thirty. Only five players in the Open Era can claim to have won a Grand Slam title past their 30th birthday and none of those 5 won more than 3. And Incredibly only one single Grand Slam title has been won past the age of 32.

When Serena Williams returns to tennis, and there is no indication yet as to when that might be, she will at the very least match her longest period of inactivity since becoming pro, that period being between Wimbledon 2003 to Miami 2004. When Serena came back at Miami she did win her 1st tournament back. However she would then go on to win only three more titles, two of them the Australian Open, over the next three years.

This time around, she will be substantially older than in 2004 and unlike 2004 when the death of her sister was largely responsible for Serena's extended leave of the tour, this time she will be out soley due to her foot injury, an injury that has pretty much prevented her from practicing for almost the entire period she has been out.

Personally I would say to assume she will simply pick up where she left off after such an extended time out is optimistic at best. Anyone who follows the game knows how difficult it is for most players on the tour to regain their preinjury form when they have been forced to take an extended period away from the tour. Given the severity of her injury, the extended period out and her age, I do not believe we can comfortably assume she will ever return to her preinjury form.

I know I will probably be labeled a "hater" for stating this but I do not consider that to be justified. My motivation in writing this is simply to encourage her fans to have realistic expectations once she does return to the tour and thereby prevent themselves from being too disappointed if it turns out she is unable to regain her preinjury level.

Let me be very clear, Serena Williams is without question the best player of her generation and one of the four or five best players of the open era. Furthermore there is not a single player in the game who has even the smallest remotest chance of surpassing her accomplishments. But she is still flesh and blood. Injuries can hamper even the best of players from returning to their best level. We only need to look at Sharapova to be reminded of this.

Perhaps, great champion that she is, Serena Williams will be that rare exception, a player who can comeback from an extended period off and pick up where she left off. She certainly has sprung some impressive surprises in the past. But I would have to say were Serena to comeback after this foot injury and go on to win more Grand Slams I would consider it to be the most remarkable and impressive achievement of her career and you can put it on record that should that happen I will be as fullsome with praise and admiration as any of her fans could be.

That said, until the time that Serena proves that she is back as a force and for that matter until such time as Venus and Henin demostrate they are back as forces I think we have to accept that right now the three best players in the world are indeed the three who are the highest ranked namely, Wozniacki, Clijsters and Zvonareva.

I totally agree with this. The fact is that in the last six months, Kim has won the two biggest titles, Caroline has won the most titles and improved massively on her performances on the first half of the year and Vera has shown she deserves her place in the top three with a second GS final. The fact that we see these three players in semis/quarters in Australia shows they are still leading the pack in the absence/indisposition of Serena, Venus, Justine. At this stage of the game, the biggest threat to the Reliable Three comes not from a Williams or a Henin, but from Na Li, who looks like the only player who could take this Australian Open title from one of them.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 25th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Considering that several players were out last year and sufferering from injuries I think time will only tell. It is far to early to say they are the reliable 3 because they have not proved this over several years nor do Caro or Vera have the title wins at a slam to give them any special place above proven champions yet. This year will be very telling once the injured players return to their best forms and are healthy enough to compete on a consistent basis.

I would say they have been the most consistent of the active players but not the most reliable. Because no matter how you look at it Serena Williams still won 2 slams last year and has been injured. Venus & Henin both have been injured as well as Maria. Ana has constantly had nagging injuries but shows signs of life if she can stay healthy. Kuznetsova has also improved. I would say that right now they are the ones who have been healthy enough to play their best tennis on a consistent basis.

It will be interesting to see what happens once all of the players are healthy for a nice run and in the mix.

Once all of the players are healthy? I'm sorry, I hate to shatter your dreams but it's not going to happen.

it-girl
Jan 25th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Once all of the players are healthy? I'm sorry, I hate to shatter your dreams but it's not going to happen.There can be a period of time though it can be short that all top players are healthy enough to compete. Hopefully this will be the case sooner than later.

Beat
Jan 25th, 2011, 07:21 PM
Serena, Venus, Justine, even Jankovic.

not playing, just lost in rd 3, just lost in rd 3, just lost in rd 2.
what was your argument again?

TennisFan66
Jan 25th, 2011, 07:25 PM
Perhaps, great champion that she is, Serena Williams will be that rare exception, a player who can comeback from an extended period off and pick up where she left off. She certainly has sprung some impressive surprises in the past.



Lord you're right,but how many times has Serena came back and took it all? I think every time?

Those 3 were also in the SF of the YEC; and two of them in the final of the last PM.

@Shvedbarilescu
:yeah:

AcesHigh
Jan 25th, 2011, 08:01 PM
I think Venus, Maria, Ana, and Justine are closer to DONE than elite status. Especially Ana.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 12:33 AM
If Kim wins, then Caro, Kim and Vera are in the semis of USO, YEC and AO

QuietPlease
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:04 AM
If Kim wins, then Caro, Kim and Vera are in the semis of USO, YEC and AO

Kim won. All 3 in SF of USO, YEC & AO.

If Caro wins over Na the finalists will once again be 2 of those 3 players.

QuietPlease
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:06 AM
Perhaps again in AO? We'll know in 10 hours.

And their dominance is showing on the rankings, as of today according to TBE:

1 Caro 8655
2 Kim 7015
3 Vera 7005
4 Fran 5055

Even if all 3 lose their next match there's a 2000 point gap to #4.

Now:

1 Caro 8655
2 Kim 7415
3 Vera 7405
4 Fran 5055

Big gap!

mariavikafan
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:15 AM
The reliable three:lol: one always loses badly when she meets in form player, the other player always loses in finals.
There is just Kim who is winning, noone remember about finals or SF.

Lucemferre
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:17 AM
More like Clijsters and the reliable disappointments.

Lapaco
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:19 AM
More like Clijsters and the reliable disappointments.

:lol:

GoofyDuck
Jan 26th, 2011, 08:21 AM
The reliable 3, what can I say...

2 grandslams in a row theyre all atleast in the semifinal.
This is why they are the number 1,2 and 3 seed.

goldenlox
Jan 26th, 2011, 01:06 PM
2 slams and the YEC, all 3 were in the semis.
Kim won Cincy, USO, YEC
Caro won Montreal, Tokyo Bejing
So every Tier I or higher since Wimbledon, they won. Na is the only player who can break that streak this month

zarl
Jan 26th, 2011, 01:18 PM
Justine, Maria, The Sisters are all history..
Face it

Mistress of Evil
Jan 26th, 2011, 01:25 PM
Yeah, that's the painful truth, nowadays. :bigcry:

<Sven>
Jan 26th, 2011, 01:30 PM
More like Clijsters and the reliable disappointments.

This had me LOL!
Still, I'm always very nervous when Kim faces them and often it's very close...
I hope Kim manages to win AO as well. Caro and Vera have plenty of other opportunities and will surely win big titles later on, but for Kim, the clock is ticking.

Direwolf
Jan 26th, 2011, 04:14 PM
More like

"The Boring Threesome"....

ZzzZZZ....

Olórin
Jan 26th, 2011, 04:37 PM
"Reliability", yeah, that's why I started watching the WTA.....:lol:

Lucemferre
Jan 26th, 2011, 04:43 PM
This had me LOL!
Still, I'm always very nervous when Kim faces them and often it's very close...
I hope Kim manages to win AO as well. Caro and Vera have plenty of other opportunities and will surely win big titles later on, but for Kim, the clock is ticking.

I'm actually rooting for clijsters too. I said Li in the other thread but lets face it the other 3 are all pathetic:tape: At least Clijsters kinda deserves all this weak era success after failing so many times in her first career.She should grab as much as she can before getting knocked up again.

Young 8
Jan 26th, 2011, 04:49 PM
Justine, Maria, The Sisters are all history..
Face it

Serena could comeback if she wants to

Venus is done, Maria almost

terjw
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Yep - as has been pointed out. Huge 2000 point gap between #3 and #4 in the rankings. And these three all made the SF of USO and AO and YEC. They have certainly been the best three players by a mile since Wimbledon.

Shvedbarilescu
Jan 26th, 2011, 07:15 PM
Serena could comeback if she wants to
Venus is done, Maria almost

You just don't know that. Serena Williams is a great player, a very great player. But she is still flesh and blood and she is no different from any other player on the tour in that she is vunerable to injuries and she is indeed vunerable to injuries possibly ending her career.

Personally this foot injury is clearly a very severe injury. My own impression is the only explanation for how long it has kept Serena out of the game that fits is that she her foot wound developed an infection. Assuming that to be the case, something I consider to be likely but I don't deny this is only speculation, there are no hard facts, there are no guarentees Serena will ever be able to return to tennis at an elite level.

LShang
May 30th, 2011, 06:13 AM
Indeed, very reliable.

Claycourter
May 30th, 2011, 06:36 AM
It's a sad day for tennis that the best 3 players in the world are either pushers, moonballers or grinders :help: Someone needs to send these 3 packing with an exciting brand of tennis and aggressive shot making. Hopefully the hard court season will see these 3 lose a lot of points and more exciting players moving into top position.