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View Full Version : Fran/Sveta: Where does this rank with greatest matches of all time?


Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:25 PM
I think we'll be hard-pressed to see anything better this upcoming decade.

Where does it rank with greatest matches of all time? Right up there, in my mind. Can anyone propose contenders? From post-1990, matches that come to mind include Seles/Capriati USO '91, Seles/Graf AO '93, Venus/Hingis USO '00, Hingis/Seles CC '00, Henin/Capriati USO '03, Venus/Davenport W '05, Henin/Venus USO '07, Serena/Dementieva W '09, etc. etc. But this one is special in its own way, and the quality of tennis throughout the entirety of that 3rd set was that high.

It's this kind of Herculean match that makes me (and all of us) proud to be a tennis fan today. :worship:

Miss Amor
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:26 PM
Best match since the 2009 Wimb SF, great effort from both :worship:

Bismarck.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:27 PM
Best match since the 2009 Wimb SF

Today was a lot better than that. :lol:

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:28 PM
It was the best 3rd set I can remember. Fran saved 6 match points, then was in position to win, then Sveta was in position to win, this was after 3+ hours of tennis.

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:28 PM
It's funny.. you have a lot of great matches in the late 90s.. up to 2003. And then you have 2005 Wimby and 2009 Wimby SF and this match. Talk about slim pickings.

Miss Amor
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:29 PM
Today was a lot better than that. :lol:

I think both were equally impressive, the stakes are a lot higher when playing in a SF obviously.

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:30 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

Bismarck.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:33 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

:spit:

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:34 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

:rolls:

Even though I'm a Kim fan.. that's kind of ridiculous

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:35 PM
:spit:

You can laugh. The first two sets of Kuzzy-Franny were not good at all. It was quite ugly actually.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:35 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

lol, no!

Seriously, that is one of the most overrated matches ever.

It wasn't even the best match of 2010!

Horrible choking from Kim made it competitive

Bismarck.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM
You can laugh. The first two sets of Kuzzy-Franny were not good at all. It was quite ugly actually.

Are you serious? The first two sets weren't anything special, but they weren't ugly. And that final set alone pisses all over any match we saw in 2010.

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM
lol, no!

Seriously, that is one of the most overrated matches ever.

It wasn't even the best match of 2010!

Horrible choking from Kim made it competitive

It was still better quality than today match. Before 5 all in the third set, the match was painful to watch.

shap_half
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:38 PM
It's funny.. you have a lot of great matches in the late 90s.. up to 2003. And then you have 2005 Wimby and 2009 Wimby SF and this match. Talk about slim pickings.

I reckon the USO 2007 SF was better than the 2009 Wimbledon match. But either way, slim pickings indeed if we're looking for incredible, incredible matches, but I do have to say that last year's Australian Open, as a whole, was pretty good. There were some good, entertaining matches.

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:39 PM
lol, no!

Seriously, that is one of the most overrated matches ever.

It wasn't even the best match of 2010!

Horrible choking from Kim made it competitive

This. It was entertaining but come on! Horrific choking and such patchy play for both. That's like calling a Williams/Williams match one of the best - amazing points, yes, but not the overall quality.

FORZA SARITA
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:40 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

WTF?
that match was great because of the drama not for the quality of tennis :tape:

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:40 PM
I reckon the USO 2007 SF was better than the 2009 Wimbledon match. But either way, slim pickings indeed if we're looking for incredible, incredible matches, but I do have to say that last year's Australian Open, as a whole, was pretty good. There were some good, entertaining matches.

oops, how could i forget that one? henin/venus was brilliant - imo the greatest, highest quality modern women's match. just added it to my first post, thanks.

tennis-insomniac
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:44 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

I agree but this match gets me excited many times, the quality points are mostly in the third set as the scoreline suggested. Compare to Wimbledon SF 09 which was thoroughly competitive in three sets, but definitely for me it's one of the best quality tennis in this period, the fight, the crowds, the tennis and MPs saved. It has been a long time honestly that I got excited watching tennis.

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:44 PM
WTF?
that match was great because of the drama not for the quality of tennis :tape:

Did I say it was great quality ? I've said it was better than today match.

hingis-seles
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:44 PM
The best AO match I can think of since Serena-Sharapova in '05 and Hingis-Serena in '01.

shap_half
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:44 PM
WTF?
that match was great because of the drama not for the quality of tennis :tape:

There were definitely some quality moments though. And you have to admit that when you're pushing past 6 all in the third of a match, even "decent" tennis gets played up to "amazing" tennis because of the tension that the situation creates. I'm not saying that yesterday's match wasn't amazeballs, it is, but there's context for everything. And drama definitely is a necessary context that makes a match great and memorable.

Imagine if this tennis was played in the 4th round in Memphis at 2pm?

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:45 PM
I reckon the USO 2007 SF was better than the 2009 Wimbledon match. But either way, slim pickings indeed if we're looking for incredible, incredible matches, but I do have to say that last year's Australian Open, as a whole, was pretty good. There were some good, entertaining matches.

Well I do think the 2009 SF is overrated... but I don't think one set of great tennis can compete with that match.

FORZA SARITA
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:46 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

Did I say it was great quality ? I've said it was better than today match.

then watch how fran saved all the 6 MPs :rolleyes:
not DFs and wild errors like in Brisbane match :lol:

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:47 PM
There were definitely some quality moments though. And you have to admit that when you're pushing past 6 all in the third of a match, even "decent" tennis gets played up to "amazing" tennis because of the tension that the situation creates. I'm not saying that yesterday's match wasn't amazeballs, it is, but there's context for everything. And drama definitely is a necessary context that makes a match great and memorable.

Imagine if this tennis was played in the 4th round in Memphis at 2pm?

I'm watching the match now.. and at 10 all there was AMAZING tennis by any standards.

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:51 PM
then watch how fran saved all the 6 MPs :rolleyes:
not DFs and wild errors like in Brisbane match :lol:

I've seen the match thank you.

And I've not said the Clijsters-Henin match was greater. The OP was asking for more contenders. I was just trying to answer and share my opinion.

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:53 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

I've seen the match thank you.

And I've not said the Clijsters-Henin match was greater. The OP was asking for more contenders. I was just trying to answer and share my opinion.

You said the quality was better and it wasn't :shrug:
The Clijsters-Henin match was good, no doubt.. but this match with Fran and Sveta was an all-time great.

shap_half
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:56 PM
Well I do think the 2009 SF is overrated... but I don't think one set of great tennis can compete with that match.

While the quality did dip in the 2nd set, I don't think the 2009 SF really produced the quality we saw in that first set in the USO. There were some nice moments, for sure, but I wonder sometimes if the MP-saving is what makes people regard this match so highly. I even prefer the Mauresmo/Serena match in 2004. Contrasting styles between two grass-capable rivals.

FORZA SARITA
Jan 23rd, 2011, 04:57 PM
Brisbane final last year was better quality than this match and there was drama too, and match points saved.

I've seen the match thank you.

And I've not said the Clijsters-Henin match was greater. The OP was asking for more contenders. I was just trying to answer and share my opinion.

bla bla bla :wavey:

Soliloque
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:02 PM
You said the quality was better and it wasn't :shrug:
The Clijsters-Henin match was good, no doubt.. but this match with Fran and Sveta was an all-time great.

That's a matter of opinion. The end of the match was really good but before 5 all it was nothing special. But I can understand what's happening right now. The same thing happened with the Isner-Mahut match, everybody was calling it one of the greatest match of all time but the quality was not that good either.
In terms of drama it was really good but in terms of quality I've not been that impressed (except the way Schiavone was saving match points).

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:07 PM
Isner-Mahut were 2 journeymen.
This was the last two FO champions playing a once in a career 4 and a half hour match.
The last hour and a half was back and forth with a lot of well played points in very key moments.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:07 PM
Everyone is going to overrate the heck out of this match just because it went 16-14. The last set was very good no doubt... but it's not the best match ever or anything like that

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:08 PM
Everyone is going to overrate the heck out of this match just because it went 16-14. The last set was very good no doubt... but it's not the best match ever or anything like that

Did you watch it?

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:09 PM
Did you watch it?

Yes. it was highly entertaining...

Slutiana
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:23 PM
This. It was entertaining but come on! Horrific choking and such patchy play for both. That's like calling a Williams/Williams match one of the best - amazing points, yes, but not the overall quality.
Their US Open QF stands as one of the best matches between 05 and now for quality and drama.
Yes. it was highly entertaining...
And it was brilliant tennis. At any standard. ;)

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:29 PM
Their US Open QF stands as one of the best matches between 05 and now for quality and drama.



I disagree. I thought their '08 Wimby F was miles better in terms of quality, just lacking in drama.

But I like that someone mentioned Serena/Mauresmo Wimbledon '04 SF. Now that was definitely something to behold, fine and natural grass court tennis. Davenport/Mauresmo Wimbledon '05 was pretty memorable as well, but not as classic as the Serena match from the year earlier.

debopero
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:31 PM
I reckon the USO 2007 SF was better than the 2009 Wimbledon match. But either way, slim pickings indeed if we're looking for incredible, incredible matches, but I do have to say that last year's Australian Open, as a whole, was pretty good. There were some good, entertaining matches.

I reckon your on crack.

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:34 PM
Isner-Mahut were 2 journeymen.


Mahut is, but Isner is no journeyman.

shap_half
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:37 PM
I reckon your on crack.

Why because someone didn't save a match point against a player who's never made it that far at Wimbledon?

Renalicious
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:40 PM
It'd definitely be in the Top 3. The only thing missing was that it was in the 4r of a slam not the final, like Wimbledon 2005. Other than that it was really he most dramatic, perfect, high quality match.

shap_half
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:45 PM
I disagree. I thought their '08 Wimby F was miles better in terms of quality, just lacking in drama.

But I like that someone mentioned Serena/Mauresmo Wimbledon '04 SF. Now that was definitely something to behold, fine and natural grass court tennis. Davenport/Mauresmo Wimbledon '05 was pretty memorable as well, but not as classic as the Serena match from the year earlier.

That Serena/Amelie match was incredible. The quality of play was so high for almost the entire match, and they were both producing some awesome tennis. The best part was that they were playing such different styles of tennis, both perfect for grass.

debopero
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:53 PM
Why because someone didn't save a match point against a player who's never made it that far at Wimbledon?

No because a player wasn't too dizzy to compete properly :shrug:. Venus only played well in spots and was absent in others and it was never in doubt that Henin was the better player and was going to win. Most overrated match (by tennisforum standards) in my opinion.

Smitten
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:56 PM
I think we'll be hard-pressed to see anything better this upcoming decade.

Where does it rank with greatest matches of all time? Right up there, in my mind. Can anyone propose contenders? From post-1990, matches that come to mind include Seles/Capriati USO '91, Seles/Graf AO '93, Venus/Hingis USO '00, Hingis/Seles CC '00, Henin/Capriati USO '03, Venus/Davenport W '05, Henin/Venus USO '07, Serena/Dementieva W '09, etc. etc. But this one is special in its own way, and the quality of tennis throughout the entirety of that 3rd set was that high.

It's this kind of Herculean match that makes me (and all of us) proud to be a tennis fan today. :worship:

I came into this thread fully expecting that

Rubin def. Sanchez-Vicario 6-4 2-6 16-14 would not be mentioned despite it happening at this very venue 15 years ago.

Sad really.

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:58 PM
No because a player wasn't too dizzy to compete properly :shrug:. Venus on played well in spots and was absent in others. and it was never in doubt that Henin was the better player and was going to win. Most overrated match (by tennisforum standards) in my opinion.

I think it's the most underrated by tennis analysts.

I came into this thread fully expecting that

Rubin def. Sanchez-Vicario 6-4 2-6 16-14 would not be mentioned despite it happening at this very venue 15 years ago.

Sad really.

The reason why I have a limited # of matches to choose from is because I started watching tennis in '98. But please, tell us more about Rubin/ASV. I never saw it. Go right ahead.

starin
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:59 PM
Everyone is going to overrate the heck out of this match just because it went 16-14. The last set was very good no doubt... but it's not the best match ever or anything like that

pretty much. The end of the last set was entertaining cuz it was so back and forth and Schiavone kept coming up with great shots when she was down. But overall the match wasn't that good. Sveta spent the majority of the match just pushing and pushing. I prefer the error filled Brisbane '10 final over this. In the Brisbane final at least both players were going for their shots and coming up with amazing points to match the errors. Just because the match was long ppl on this board will think it was an epic.

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:00 PM
Oh please stop exaggerating.A 4th round match between choker queen Kuznetsova and Schiavone is not even close to being the greatest match. If it was anyone other than Sveta we wouldn't even be seeing these silly threads because it wouldve finished an hour earlier. Only the third set was somewhat historic because nobody could hold serve or close it out. It's closer to pathetic than great.

Kworb
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:03 PM
It was definitely one of the greatest. Also much better than Isner/Mahut. These two actually rallied! :worship:

AcesHigh
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:06 PM
Oh please stop exaggerating.A 4th round match between choker queen Kuznetsova and Schiavone is not even close to being the greatest match. If it was anyone other than Sveta we wouldn't even be seeing these silly threads because it wouldve finished an hour earlier. Only the third set was somewhat historic because nobody could hold serve or close it out. It's closer to pathetic than great.

:spit: Whatever. I don't know what match you watched. Fran played great tennis to win and Kuzy fought hard that last set. This match definitely wasn't choked away.

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:15 PM
:spit: Whatever. I don't know what match you watched. Fran played great tennis to win and Kuzy fought hard that last set. This match definitely wasn't choked away.

:lol:Yeah right

Bismarck.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:17 PM
Lucifer, you clearly didn't watch it. Don't try and pretend that you did, because you obviously didn't. :lol:

Just Do It
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:32 PM
I will definitely have to watch this. Was it more dramatic than Jankovicvs Paszek AO R1 ?

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:35 PM
Lucifer, you clearly didn't watch it. Don't try and pretend that you did, because you obviously didn't. :lol:

Yes I did. stop pretending that you know what I did. Kuznetsova is a choker. She had some 30-0 and even 40-0 on schiavone's serve and still couldn't finish it off.How lame is that? It was as much a classic as Isner-Mahut borefest.What classic has a 6-1 set in it? :tape:

TheHangover
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:37 PM
clijsters-henin brisbane 2010 is highly overrated for the youtube highlights (obviously it was a great match), but in the case of fran-sveta the fact is that the match lasted almost 5 hours there were winners till the end fran saved 6 match points then breaks kuznetsova and she went to serve for the match, then sveta makes the same, breaks and serves for the match, this for two or three times, then you have to add that fran wasn't the favourite we all were thinking that she would have loose in the end because she was often on the defensive, the public was behind her and makes this a fairy tale, the fact that sveta is stronger from the baseline also pushed fran to go to the net, so we saw a lot of great volleys, drop shots and passing shot, not the same bum bum from the baseline of dementieva-serena wimbledon 2009. i didn't see hingis-capriati ao 2001/2, but for me this is the best that i saw.
Maybe because i'm italian (sorry for my grammatical mistakes)

Bismarck.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:38 PM
Yes I did. stop pretending that you know what I did. Kuznetsova is a choker. She had some 30-0 and even 40-0 on schiavone's serve and still couldn't finish it off.How lame is that? It was as much a classic as Isner-Mahut borefest.What classic has a 6-1 set in it? :tape:

:yawn: Does anything make you happy?

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:40 PM
:yawn: Does anything make you happy?

Yes a new champion at the AO will make me happy as long as her last name is not Schiavone.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:43 PM
Yes I did. stop pretending that you know what I did. Kuznetsova is a choker. She had some 30-0 and even 40-0 on schiavone's serve and still couldn't finish it off.How lame is that? It was as much a classic as Isner-Mahut borefest.What classic has a 6-1 set in it? :tape:


Did you even see the match? Schiavone hit 2 big serves down 0-40.

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:45 PM
Did you even see the match? Schiavone hit 2 big serves down 0-40.

Did you even read the previous posts?

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:51 PM
Did you even read the previous posts?

So I'm guessing "no, you didn't watch the match". :lol:

TheHangover
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:53 PM
Yes a new champion at the AO will make me happy as long as her last name is not Schiavone.

don't worry, new ao champion will be petkovic :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: no seriously :hug:

fouc
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:46 PM
As much as I enjoyed it, I wouldn't put it so high. It was definitely... long and somehow the level didn't drop throughout the whole 3rd set... but all time great? There were some rallies in Safarova-Zvonareva TB and Sharapova-Goerges 3rd set I enjoyed even more.

thrust
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:23 PM
oops, how could i forget that one? henin/venus was brilliant - imo the greatest, highest quality modern women's match. just added it to my first post, thanks.

I AGREE! The first two sets were good yesterday, but not special. The final set was fabulous, drama wise, at least. Actually, the tennis was great too in that set. I think that winning the FO has given Francesca enough confidence so that she feels that she can beat anyone, no matter what the score. Great to see her play so well this late in her career!

Svetlana)))
Jan 24th, 2011, 12:22 AM
It's one of the best WTA matches I've ever seen, just too heartbreaking for me to watch again.

Beny
Jan 24th, 2011, 01:47 AM
Great match.

But its hard to compare with some others. This one deserves top 3 all time best though

Someone already mentioned the 08 Wimbledon final. That was the match when you say, 'Okay there is WTA and there are Williams sisters' They are simply another league. No one can play a match like that. If it was one WS in that final and some other player, it would never be as good no matter how the random player would play.

Clijsters-Mauresmo 26,63,36 YEC SF was incredible too
Sharapova-Henin the YEC 2007 and (AO 08-Sharapova played too well, better than Kuznetsova plus Schiavone, but I agree the match with a HQ 16-14 third set is better than 4 and 0)
Venus-Henin USO 2007

(Brisbane 2010 F was terrible, unbearable, both players´ shot selection idiotic at times)

Kooyong
Jan 24th, 2011, 09:32 AM
I do class this match as one of the greatest Women's match of all time.

I would rate several matches ahead of it.

1990 French Open final Monica Seles v Steffi Graf
1990 US Open Semi Monica Seles v Jennifer Capriati
2002 Australian Open final Jennifer Capriati v Martina Hingis
2002 French Open Jennifer Capriati v Kim Clisters
2008 Wimbeldon Final Williams Sisters

There are several other matches that for one reason or another could be rated better or equal to this one. for example several Navratilova v Evert, Graf v Sales, S Williams v Capraiti were better. I recall in the late 90s (1997ish) Lindsay Davenport being in an equally great 4th round Australian Open match.

I don't rate it because of the score line but by the way the match was played with gutsy shot making from both women, Fran's relentless running down of shots that Svetlana would normally put down has clean winners and the fact that on the big points both women took risks.

Someone mentioned the Sanchez-Vicario v Rubin match that had a similar score line and whilst that was a highly entertaining match, i do not recall that match being played with the same level of agression and risk taking that we saw in this match.

To highlight why the score line is not the most important reason for my high rating, the previously day i watched Petrova v Makarova that went 8-6 in the third, sure it was entertaining but the shot making and rallying was not of the same standard that we saw in this match.

I think one thing that reduces the ranking of this match in terms of its place in Women's Tennis history is that it was only a 4th round match, this may change if Fran wins the title.