PDA

View Full Version : How the heck did Schiavone win a slam with that serve?


justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:27 AM
I know alot of people are amazed (for obvious reasons) Schiavone ever won a slam period. Even more to the point I am frankly amazed how she ever won a slam with that atrocious serve. It seems like every match she plays she has double faults and no winning serves, and has to fight her ass off to try and hold.

Raiden
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:30 AM
How the heck did Schiavone win a slam with that serve?Cuz it was on clay :)

justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:33 AM
On clay her piss poor serve should only have been ripped apart even more by the strong returners. How did the big hitting Stosur especialy let her get away with it.

Sp!ffy
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:42 AM
^Because in order to win a grand slam, you need to be able to hit both a backhand and forehand.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:43 AM
Her serve is not that bad today :confused:

justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:51 AM
Her serve is not that bad today :confused:

ROTFL which is why she has had 20 break points against, lost serve 7 times, and has lots of double faults with hardly any service winners. Yeah AWESOME serving.

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:55 AM
I'm not a fan at all of Stosur but it was such a shame that she lost to Flukavone after beating Henin,Serena,Jankovic which is worth about winning two majors :tape:

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:56 AM
ROTFL which is why she has had 20 break points against, lost serve 7 times, and has lots of double faults with hardly any service winners. Yeah AWESOME serving.

She didn't get broken because her serve is shitty. It's not anything amazing, but it isn't immediately attackable. She places her serve pretty well.

Raiden
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:57 AM
On clay her piss poor serve should only have been ripped apart even more by the strong returners. This is WTA, not the ATP.

Claycourter
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:58 AM
I'm not a fan at all of Stosur but it was such a shame that she lost to Flukavone after beating Henin,Serena,Jankovic which is worth about winning two majors :tape:

Did you actually see the match? Stosur was outplayed, that match was the last hurrah of tactical tennis triumphing over zero movement, topspin brainless power hitter.

justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:58 AM
She didn't get broken because her serve is shitty. It's not anything amazing, but it isn't immediately attackable. She places her serve pretty well.

Today she has 2 aces and 8 double faults, and 49% first serve percentage (her typical serving performance vs any half decent opponent). She indeed places her serve well, fluffy soft serves in the net or wide that is. :lol: You arent in trouble on EVERY service game and even with your opponent blowing all kinds of break points still losing your serve 7 or 8 times in a 3 set match with a good serve, sorry.

justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:01 AM
This is WTA, not the ATP.

Actually WTA has excellent returning now. It is why combined with the overall weak serving of the WTA you see so many breaks in general.

indicapuja
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:03 AM
because Elena was injured

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:06 AM
Today she has 2 aces and 8 double faults, and 49% first serve percentage. She indeed places her serve well, in the net or long and wide that is. You arent in trouble on EVERY service game and even with your opponent blowing all kinds of break points still losing your serve 7 or 8 times in a 3 set match with a good serve, sorry.

Like I said, she didn't get broken just because her serve is so shitty.

And no, her placement is decent... her second serve is not short in the box and immediately attackable...

Her serve isn't particularly worse than some others in the top 10 like Zvonareva :shrug:

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:06 AM
She moves well.
No matter how hard the ball came back to her, even after a slow serve, she could run down and make something out of it.
The hard hitters all think that a good return of serve = winner.
Not with Franny.
Did you see the volleys Sveta had to make just to win a point?
It's almost inhuman how fast Franny could get to all those balls.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:10 AM
I don't even remember many return winners that Sveta hit on Schiavone's second serve :shrug:

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:12 AM
Sveta tried.......tried to run around to hit a forehand.
Just dumped it all to the net. :o

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:13 AM
Death. Sveta dumped 3 returns...

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:14 AM
She was obviously trying to pull a Justine :o

ElusiveChanteuse
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:15 AM
Fran will show why she won a slam.:cheer:

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:16 AM
Her serve isn't always that bad. Often she gets free points because she can place first serves in tough spots.

Schiavone is a breath of fresh air to the WTA these last couple of years. Love this older, more confident and more free-flowing Frannie.

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:18 AM
It's the type of game plan I wished Justine had.

(But knowing Justine...:rolleyes: and Justine isn't as athletic as Franny.)

Pops Maellard
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:21 AM
Kuz second serve average speed 143 KMH. :tape:

Raiden
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:22 AM
Schiavone is a breath of fresh air to the WTA these last couple of years. Love this older, more confident and more free-flowing Frannie.Agreed.

But admittedly, her stinkingly Nadalesque "lasso" forehand in combination with her cowboy-ish "haa-hee" is funny

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:23 AM
Kuz second serve average speed 143 KMH. :tape:

It's not that bad. :confused:

Last night Nadal served one second serve at 120 KMH. :help:

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:30 AM
It's not that bad. :confused:

Last night Nadal served one second serve at 120 KMH. :help:

At least he can put a second serve in unlike Verdasco:lol:

mariavikafan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:48 AM
Better question : how the heck did Kuz won 2 Slams:lol::lol:

Pops Maellard
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:50 AM
At least he can put a second serve in unlike Verdasco:lol:

:confused: You obviously haven't looked at his stats before saying that.

Caralenko
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:55 AM
Better question : how the heck did Kuz won 2 Slams:lol::lol:

Nothing questionable about that all imo. And if the OP had watched the French Open Final, he'd know that Fran was serving even better kickers than Stosur.

Leo_DFP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:56 AM
justineheninfan is obviously clueless and was proved wrong by how fran saved the 15-40 match point with another winning first serve out wide.

her placement honestly rocks.

Moveyourfeet
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:57 AM
Y'all need to leave FranFighter Schiavone alone.

Singleniacki
Jan 23rd, 2011, 06:58 AM
she's a legend.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:00 AM
Francesca is making justineheninfan shut up now. She hit some big serves

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:00 AM
justineheninfan is obviously clueless and was proved wrong by how fran saved the 15-40 match point with another winning first serve out wide.

her placement honestly rocks.

Quoted for truth

sabatani82
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:00 AM
6 match points saved right now,i hope

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:00 AM
It's one of those matches where you really hope no one will lose.

justineheninfan
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:00 AM
Better question : how the heck did Kuz won 2 Slams:lol::lol:

You are right that is an even better question. One of those crazy miracles of tennis I guess.

kittyking
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:02 AM
It's one of those matches where you really hope no one will lose.

Very true, this match in the last hours got very very interesting

Singleniacki
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:03 AM
It's one of those matches where you really hope no one will lose.

This.

Just. Fucking. Amazing.

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:06 AM
I think Fran can win the FO again this year. Those points when Sveta had mp's, Fran was incredible
The point where she lobbed, unbelievable

sabatani82
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:07 AM
most boring game of the decade becoming best game of the century

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:08 AM
The winner is really going to deserve it. They are both fighting their hearts out

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:09 AM
If only both could move on to the next round. If only.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:09 AM
Isner-Mahut all over again? :lol:

KBlade
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:10 AM
Like I said, she didn't get broken just because her serve is so shitty.

And no, her placement is decent... her second serve is not short in the box and immediately attackable...

Her serve isn't particularly worse than some others in the top 10 like Zvonareva :shrug:

Zvonareva's serve is actually quite sturdy. It's also quite technically sound, she gets good shoulder rotation, and it doesn't appear to break down that much. She can also hit a decent flat serve despite her height, whereas other players of similiar stature such as Schiavone, Peer, etc, spin in their first and second serves. I think Vera's serve is superior to Schiavone. It may not be a weapon, but it's consistent and solid.

PLP
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:10 AM
:scared:

Singleniacki
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:10 AM
best WTA match in years. period.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:11 AM
The last 45 minutes of this is some of the best women's tennis I've ever seen in 20 years of watching matches. Period. Some of these points are time capsule worthy.

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:12 AM
The way Fran raised her game when Sveta had match points was incredible.
I never saw her play this well, even at the FO

SymphonyX
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:14 AM
Fransexa and Sexlana. :sobbing: :sobbing:

It's kinda sad to see only one winner. This is one of the best matches I've watched, male or female, in a very, very long time. The shotmaking is incredible, atmosphere intense and feeling just full of grit and determination. Very gladiator-like.

BTW, match is almost running to 4 hours. Damn.

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:15 AM
Fran's defense with the lux strings are something you cant teach.
Insane match. One of the great 3rd sets I've ever seen.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:15 AM
Zvonareva's serve is actually quite sturdy. It's also quite technically sound, she gets good shoulder rotation, and it doesn't appear to break down that much. She can also hit a decent flat serve despite her height, whereas other players of similiar stature such as Schiavone, Peer, etc, spin in their first and second serves. I think Vera's serve is superior to Schiavone. It may not be a weapon, but it's consistent and solid.

Schiavone's second serve > Vera's second serve.

sabatani82
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:15 AM
first 2.30 hour of game was most boring of 1950 2010 tennis female history,last 45 minutes maybe best tennis of all time

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:16 AM
..Franny called a medical time out? :o

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:16 AM
Medical timeout :o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:17 AM
:lol: Sveta with her own timeout :help:

starin
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:18 AM
how is this the best tennis match?
it's terrible imo. Kuz has spent the majority of the match pushing w/ schiavone barely any better. It's just push push push push.
the last few games have been good but that's it.

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:20 AM
Not these last several games. Sveta was going for a lot. Fran hit a lot of underspin, but that's part of her game
Nobody is hitting out every point in 4 hour matches

sabatani82
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:20 AM
im not saying this is good match,i know its the most pathetic game of AO2011,both play very bad until about 1 hours ago,after play very good and schiavone saved 6 matchs points thaz not amazing???

Pops Maellard
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:20 AM
how is this the best tennis match?
it's terrible imo. Kuz has spent the majority of the match pushing w/ schiavone barely any better. It's just push push push push.
the last few games have been good but that's it.

According to the AO stats The Kuz has made 38 UEs in this set alone. :tape:

Noctis
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:25 AM
Need to record this match somebody
do link better

starin
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:26 AM
According to the AO stats The Kuz has made 38 UEs in this set alone. :tape:

38 UE's for 22 games ain't bad. It's gotten really good here at the end. but let's not paper over all the pushing that led us here.

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:30 AM
Considering how tired they must be, I think this level of tennis is very high.
They are both showing the heart it takes to win majors.

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:31 AM
It can't really be pushing when you hit 61 winners? :o

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:35 AM
People say 'push' like its an insult. Both these players have full court games, serve volley defense
There's a lot going on here

Caralenko
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:36 AM
If you think this is pushing, you need to watch a Wozniacki match from late 2009.

Singleniacki
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:36 AM
This is wta's best match ever.

Setsuna.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:42 AM
This is beyond EPIC.:hearts:

KBlade
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:42 AM
Schiavone's second serve > Vera's second serve.

Nice reasoning.

TheHangover
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:43 AM
you watch schiavone-kuznetsova, then you see wozniacki world number one and you realize that there is something wrong

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:43 AM
It's not that bad. :confused:

Last night Nadal served one second serve at 120 KMH. :help:

Somebody served at 101 kmh the other day. I can't remember who...

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:44 AM
It's pretty obvious how/why Schiavone won a slam last year.

cellophane
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:45 AM
Nice reasoning.

Get off it please. You are quoting Claycourter in your signature :help:

AFAIR, Vera's second serve has no depth on it. Schiavone's placement on the 2nd serve is better

Setsuna.
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:46 AM
Love you Sveta.What a fighter.:hearts:

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:48 AM
Not these last several games. Sveta was going for a lot. Fran hit a lot of underspin, but that's part of her game
Nobody is hitting out every point in 4 hour matches

im not saying this is good match,i know its the most pathetic game of AO2011,both play very bad until about 1 hours ago,after play very good and schiavone saved 6 matchs points thaz not amazing???

I only started watching at 5-5 and Kuz was making her usual random errors but sinc then the quality has improved A LOT.

All the matchpoint drama hasn't hurt.

That sixth matchpoint of Kuznetova's was AMAZING

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:50 AM
This is wta's best match ever.

No it isn't.

Mightymirza
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:51 AM
Her serve is actually fine! She can also vary it well.. Unlike Ms Henin :o

sabatani82
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:58 AM
ok,definitly,best game ever

Moveyourfeet
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:58 AM
Amaze point by Fransexa :hearts::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

eck
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:59 AM
It's like ...you can only beat Schiavone if she was playing on crutches these days.

Lucemferre
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:59 AM
ok,definitly,best game ever

No still not.

Balltossovic
Jan 23rd, 2011, 07:59 AM
Anyone watching Maria getting owned? 20 UE:help: She better wake up soon...

And yes, it quite CLEAR how Fran won.

vixter
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:03 AM
I don't think her serve is that bad at all. Her serve out wide from deuce court is really deep and well-placed in the corner. She has also a good kick-serve especially on clay maybe.

I think it's true though that her serve doesn't create advantage in the point on a majority of the points, thus a good returner will make her struggle to hold.

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:05 AM
I'm DYIIING!!!

goldenlox
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:05 AM
This will be a remembered 3rd set when this decade is over. Its insane

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:06 AM
I don't think her serve is that bad at all. Her serve out wide from deuce court is really deep and well-placed in the corner. She has also a good kick-serve especially on clay maybe.


I agree.

I think the other problem is that it's not that consistent (i.e. she doesn't always hit th eserve that deep or wide) but when its on it's pretty good

Balltossovic
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:08 AM
Respect to BOTH. Great reaction from Fran and Sveta, awesome with the embrace at the end.

True class was just displayed.

Polikarpov
Jan 23rd, 2011, 08:48 AM
I guess her win against Sveta pretty much answers your question.

Sammo
Jan 23rd, 2011, 11:05 AM
2 words: Stosur and nerves. Oh also Dementieva and injury.

Lapaco
Jan 23rd, 2011, 11:10 AM
I expect Fran to repeat in Paris.

Beat
Jan 23rd, 2011, 11:10 AM
can i ask you back: how did hingis win 5 slams with that serve?

fail thread if there ever was one.

BlueTrees
Jan 23rd, 2011, 12:20 PM
Because she served better at the French Open..?

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:25 PM
Her serves were on average faster than Kuznetsova's
(hers are in bold)

Fastest Serve Speed 174 KMH 177 KMH
Average 1st Serve Speed 146 KMH 158 KMH
Average 2nd Serve Speed 120 KMH 130 KMH

Mightymirza
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:30 PM
Her serves were on average faster than Kuznetsova's
(hers are in bold)

Fastest Serve Speed 174 KMH 177 KMH
Average 1st Serve Speed 146 KMH 158 KMH
Average 2nd Serve Speed 120 KMH 130 KMH

Thats coz Sveta puts more kick on her serves ;) A lot more bite to Sveta's serves than Franny's on average

TheHangover
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:36 PM
it's not all about the speed, it'a also about the placement and the spin, look at nadal who won 8 (i think) gs titles with that serve, plus she won on clay where serve isn't that important, plus did you watch rg final she served great, with a lot of aces. the thread starter really failed:weirdo::weirdo::weirdo::smash::smash::silly ::silly: Try again, you will be luckier :hug:

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:46 PM
Thats coz Sveta puts more kick on her serves ;) A lot more bite to Sveta's serves than Franny's on average
hmmm I've never played Sveta so I wouldn't know.

But their serving stats were quite similar

Winning % on 1st Serve
Sveta
72 of 113 = 64 %
Fran
66 of 112 = 59 %

Winning % on 2nd Serve
Sveta
21 of 50 = 42 %
Fran
41 of 83 = 49 %

Receiving Points Won
Sveta
88 of 195 = 45 %
Fran
70 of 163 = 43 %

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:47 PM
can i ask you back: how did hingis win 5 slams with that serve?

fail thread if there ever was one.

In the 1998 Acura classic match, Hingis hit 12 aces against brilliant returner like Lindsay. Her serve is severely underrated, not as much power as some other players but amazing variety.

alfonsojose
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:50 PM
On clay her piss poor serve should only have been ripped apart even more by the strong returners. How did the big hitting Stosur especialy let her get away with it.

In that match Stosur's backand was wisely exposed by SExa. On slow surfaces it gets worse

The Witch-king
Jan 23rd, 2011, 01:53 PM
Kuz second serve average speed 143 KMH. :tape:

That's not bad at all for second serve. Venus's Zahlavova match was 131 KMH.

But that was her FIRST serve speed.