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View Full Version : FED Cup 2011, discussion, commitments etc.


ma re
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:22 PM
Would you play FED Cup next year and if so, for which country (can, but it doesen't have to be where you actually live)? I'd like to see how many people would be interested in the idea of a FED Cup, and how many countries would we even have playing. Depending on that, and on interest shown by potential players, we'll come up with some system by which this part of the game will be played. Feel free to give ideas, opinions and so on, or raise questions and suggest discussions.

If we play it, I'd play for Croatia.

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:41 PM
i love the idea of fed cup, i think it is a great idea, and i agree you dont have to play for the country that you live in, this way tipping players that are the only player playing in their country would probably have to miss out and therefore, they should be able to play for any country which they wish to. The only problem i have, will we be tipping the real fed cup matches ?? In this case, we would really need to think on how many countries we can have... a draw would have to be made... say if croatia faces ukraine.... both teams tip world group 1 matches on the tie USA vs. Italy for example... the winner moves onto the next round... i think this system would work :)

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:43 PM
^^ Oh btw, 4 players max per country, this way we will have more countries participating :)... first come first served i think will be the solution !!

Hele.
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:44 PM
I have idea about Fed Cup. First players would sign for which country they would play. Every country can have maximum 4 players. But just scores of two best players would be counted for the country result. In first round of fed cup 8 best countries would qualify to play fed cup quarterfinals. In quarterfinals best 4 teams would qualify for semifinals, etc. But player can't change country later during year (he just can play for country he played in first round). And of course, for example if we play quarterfinals in tipping all fed cup quarterfinals matches (singles rubbers) are on offer to play.

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:49 PM
yes, i share some of my views with Helena :) 8 teams x four people= 32 tipping players, i think this is possible. We could have subsitutes as well in case people forget to tip...

Hele.
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:52 PM
Yes, but in my version just scores of 2 best players of each country would be counted for final scoreline of each country. So, that means that some country can play with 2 or 3 players (because there will not be many countries with 4 players I think). In a case of tie we can have one tie break match (idea of third player can be better but some countries maybe will not have it and even if they have it, there also can be tie).

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 01:56 PM
hmmmm.... i suppose that way is the best way actually beacause one country might have only 2 players where another country will have 4, and that'd be unfair so yes, i think it would have to be minimum number of players for country 2 and max... 4 ????

Hele.
Oct 3rd, 2010, 02:01 PM
hmmmm.... i suppose that way is the best way actually beacause one country might have only 2 players where another country will have 4, and that'd be unfair so yes, i think it would have to be minimum number of players for country 2 and max... 4 ????

Minimum number of players = 2
Maximum number of players = 4

But for final scoreline of each team will be calculated results of two best players. :yeah: The most fair solution I think. :shrug:

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 02:03 PM
Minimum number of players = 2
Maximum number of players = 4

But for final scoreline of each team will be calculated results of two best players. :yeah: The most fair solution I think. :shrug:

agreed :bounce:

ma re
Oct 3rd, 2010, 02:44 PM
Some good points have already been made (you guys are fast...or reeeeaaaaly bored today:lol:). I think we should all specify for which countries we'd like to play, so that we can see how many countries would there even be, or if people would even be interested to play FC (if only a few players apply or if we'd only have 2-3 countries, that wouldn't be much fun).

My suggestion is to allow as many players for any given country, but to (based on how many players/countries we have) allow teams to choose their players for each round of FC (they could pick those who recently had good results or something...). So that would mean, for example, tennisfan_77 and myself playing for Croatia in the first round, then * mladen * and volume3d in the next, something like that.

I also think that if two players from different countries want to play, but they're the only players for their respective countries, they could team up and play for one of their countries, or for some completely different country (for instance, if WhoAmI? and Broseghini want to play, they can play for either Estonia or Brazil, or for some country that is not represented in tipping).

Also, I think we should only play World Group 1, no play-offs or anything like that, the best four teams (regardless of how many teams we have) go to the semis, and the best two battle it out for the winner.

R1 is scheduled for early February, so we have more than enough time to figure everything out.

no-hay-igual
Oct 3rd, 2010, 09:25 PM
i hope we have a lot of players, i could beg people through PM if you like ?? :P :P Also, another point, when you say best 4 teams through to semis regardless how many entries we have, i dont think all the other countries should get knocked out all at once if you understand me... different countries in different ties if you get me so in tipping croatia vs. china... they tip the italy vs. russia tie and then UK vs. France tip USA vs. ukraine tie... im sorry if im confusing you.... haha.

ma re
Oct 4th, 2010, 08:13 AM
^^ But that would require us to have the same number of teams as there are FC ties, if I understand you correctly. And in the oppening round of world group 1 there are just 4 ties, so what if we have like, 7 teams...:confused:

What I'm suggesting is that all the teams tipp all the matches, just like we do individually during tournaments, but for example only two players per team are allowed to play and their correct picks are summed up to form a score. Example: I get 2/5 right and tennisfan gets 4/5 right, and we have 6 points for that tie. After that first FC weekend, four teams with the most points from those 20 matches (we would tipp doubles matches too), get through to the semis of FC.

P. S. No need to beg people around, I'm sure enough of them will notice this thread until the time comes to play:lol: But if you know some of your compatriots who play tipping, you sure can mention them this thread so that they join the discussion.

WhoAmI?
Oct 11th, 2010, 11:25 AM
I just noticed this thread.

I like the idea of maximum 4, and minimum 2 players for one country.:)

I'd suggest that all of the players would tip all the singles matches (but no doubles) in WG 1 (and WG 2). And all those matches would give the same amount of points, e.g 1 point per each match.

Then of course we need to make sure that each country would have a chance to get the same amount of points. If only 2 players tips count, it would be unfair to the countries that have only 2 players, because they couldn't choose better tippers like countries with 4 players. Instead we could just sum the points and divide it by the amount of players.

ma re
Oct 11th, 2010, 12:37 PM
I'd suggest that all of the players would tip all the singles matches (but no doubles) in WG 1 (and WG 2). And all those matches would give the same amount of points, e.g 1 point per each match.

Then of course we need to make sure that each country would have a chance to get the same amount of points. If only 2 players tips count, it would be unfair to the countries that have only 2 players, because they couldn't choose better tippers like countries with 4 players. Instead we could just sum the points and divide it by the amount of players.

I'm OK with playing just singles too, but don't see a problem with tipping the doubles matches either (maybe it would be more fun). I also don't have anything against playing both, WG1 and WG2, but that might be a bit too many matches for just two days (32 just in singles, 40 if we play the doubles too). But if people are for that idea, I won't object. Of course, unlike in the real FC, we probably won't have nearly enough countries playing to do relegations and play the play-off's.

I see your point about some countries not being able to choose their players, which might be an issue. But I guess it's similar to the real FC where teams can both choose their players, but some countries choose between several top50 players, and some don't have anyone inside top200 - hardly the same kind of choice. I also wasn't suggesting that countries pick among it's players who tipped the best after they play (if that's what you think), but that they choose players before the FC weekend. Still, if many people think that it wouldn't be fair that way, I like your idea of dividing the sum of points.

ma re
Nov 21st, 2010, 08:45 AM
OK people, so anyone wants to sign-up, so that we see how many countries and players we might have (to sign-up, just say for which country you'd like to play, like I did a few posts ago)?

Sasja
Nov 25th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Just noticed this thread. Great idea :yeah:

I will definitely play. 1st choice would be Holland, but I might be the only one... :hysteric: :lol:
Otherwise I will team up and play for another country.

no-hay-igual
Nov 26th, 2010, 04:10 PM
Great Britain :)
if not... Spain :)

ma re
Nov 26th, 2010, 05:25 PM
List of countries starting to form, officially three so far:

Great Britain (or Spain)
Netherlands
Croatia

Keep coming people!

WhoAmI?
Nov 26th, 2010, 05:49 PM
Estonia if possible.


But maybe we should do it in regions? E.g. West Europe, South Europe etc, because we probably wouldn't have enough players for individual countries.

ma re
Nov 26th, 2010, 05:58 PM
^^ Well, we probably won't have many countries, but I think even having several could be enough to make it fun (like seven or eight). Anyway, if we'll divide points by the number of players, it doesn't even matter if there's just one player for a certain country.

P. S. Of course you can sign-up for Estonia, or any other country for that matter. Later on, we'll see how many players every country has and think about how to arrange teams.

*Jean*
Nov 26th, 2010, 06:07 PM
I'd like to play for France

BlackPanther.
Nov 28th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Mexico :spit:
It has to be a country of World Group? :scratch:

ma re
Nov 28th, 2010, 07:39 AM
Mexico :spit:
It has to be a country of World Group? :scratch:

No, absolutely not, you can pick which ever country you want.

Ianto_Jones
Nov 28th, 2010, 02:54 PM
I'll form the first official team!

The team from Great Britain has 2 official members! Britannica shall rule the waves once again.


So. random question...I'm confused as to how this would work, would we take say a tournament like Brisbane and create individual and team scoring? That could be an idea, I'd be willing to run the team portion for a couple of tournaments. We could have a running ranking system to go alongside the individual rankings?

KittyTennis
Nov 28th, 2010, 03:32 PM
I would like to play for the United States.

ma re
Nov 28th, 2010, 03:39 PM
I'll form the first official team!

The team from Great Britain has 2 official members! Britannica shall rule the waves once again.


So. random question...I'm confused as to how this would work, would we take say a tournament like Brisbane and create individual and team scoring? That could be an idea, I'd be willing to run the team portion for a couple of tournaments. We could have a running ranking system to go alongside the individual rankings?

The idea here is to play FED Cup i.e. to tip individual matches of FED Cup ties (probably World Group 1 and 2). It doesen't really have much (in fact, nothing at all) with tournaments played during the season, for FC, only the matches played during FC weekends would count. Of course, there are a lot of details still left to be worked upon, but we have more than enough time so now we're focussed on signing-up and forming teams.

But if there is interest in year-long team or doubles game in tipping, I don't have anything against it. It's just that we've already tried doubles in tipping a few seasons ago and the idea preety much failed misserably. Back then, we didn't really work out the details and we didn't even know in which tournaments we'll play doubles, so it was quite random and weird. Also, the idea of teams and how they'll be scored wasn't really thought through enough, so the rankings system was boring and we didn't even finish one season. However, if you're into this idea of creating a doubles competition in tipping, feel free to start it out, but it would be best if you'd do it in a different thread, cause this one is really created for FED Cup.

BTW, we're already up on six countries: Great Britain, Netherlands, Croatia, Estonia, France and the United States:)

Ianto_Jones
Nov 28th, 2010, 05:08 PM
So the way I envision such a Fed Cup Tournament being drawn up is simply by round, which does put limits on the number of teams that can play.

Lets say for example that this is a mock tournament at say, the Australian Open, and only 8 teams sign up.

The countries make picks for R128, and R 64
R128, r 64

1. Great Britain
Monaco

4. France
5. Spain

6. Algeria
3. Denmark

2. Croatia
7. United States

Each team would consist of 3-6 players (otherwise…it may be too similar to tennis tipping….the issue is simply that if we want to maintain tipping and keep the people coming back…I think we would have to create a system where the people can post picks for all rounds.

So in this hypothetical tournament, lets say that the following results occur

Great Britain def Monaco
Spain def France
Algeria STUNS Denmark
Croatia def United States

The next round would be simply be for R32 and r16

GBR v Spain
Algeria v Croatia

And the Outbracket of

Monaco v France
United States v Denmark

And lets say the following occurs.
GBR def Spain
Croatia def Algeria
Monaco def France
Denmark def United States

For the final 2 rounds of the tournament it would be purely for placement.

Battle Royale for Gold: Great Britain vs Croatia

Bronze Medal Game: Spain vs Algeria

5th Place Playoff: Monaco vs Denmark

Battle to not finish last: France vs United States


And lets say that the final standings are as follows,
1. Great Britain :worship:
2. Croatia
3. Algeria
4. Spain
5. Denmark
6. Monaco
7. France
8. United States.

The countries would be awarded points according to where they ended up in the final rankings at the end of a tournament. The issue I think is that is this really tipping if we do it with a draw? It may simply be easier to have all the countries compete in one big standings and have everyone post picks for each round, and have the final point total be the standings as we do for individuals.

I think that maybe the score should consist of an AVERAGE of all of the people on a team. Or is that too complicated? It just would mean that every pick counts. So lets create an example of this system.

Lets say 10 countries enter in Brisbane.
1. Great Britain (3 people)
2. Croatia (5 people)
3. Serbia (2)
4. Estonia (3)
5. Spain (2)
6. France (2)
7. Montenegro (4)
8. Kosovo (2)
9. Lesotho (2)
10. Swaziland (2)

Each country would be represented by say, at least 2 players, but in order to make it fair to all, we should average all the players scores, so that it evens it out for the countries with fewer people. So lets just say for each week, people can specify a country to represent along with their individual efforts. Would that work?

I'd be willing to try running it for the first tournament.

Thoughts on this massive post?

ma re
Nov 28th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Thoughts on this massive post?

However, if you're into this idea of creating a doubles competition in tipping, feel free to start it out, but it would be best if you'd do it in a different thread, cause this one is really created for FED Cup.

That you really should've done it in another thread:lol:

Seriously though, it can all be done in a number of ways so we'll have to do what most consideres best in the end, like we always do (we can include polls etc. in the process). I'd like it to be as close to tipping as possible, cause if it's not it becomes a totally different game...which is also fine, but then it should be called differently as well. I'd personally also prefer it as a doubles competition, instead of a team one, cause FED Cup is already a team competition with (potentially) many players for each country, so it could be too similar of a format to FC. Anyway, please create another thread in this Games->tipping section of the forum and we'll discuss it all there;)

Ianto_Jones
Nov 29th, 2010, 04:33 PM
heh. I'm crazy. I'll start one. sure why not.

BlackPanther.
Dec 3rd, 2010, 10:53 PM
I will play for Serbia or Italy ;)

Kəv.
Dec 21st, 2010, 08:56 AM
Australia :)

Inktrailer
Dec 24th, 2010, 07:18 PM
I'd play.

I'm in Great Britain so that's my natural choice but I'd be happy to represent any country that needed to make up numbers. If Britain already had 4 players, put me in anywhere else:)

Håkon
Dec 26th, 2010, 10:43 PM
I think british_player's idea is better as a new game :) Too big for this :)

But during the Fed Cup weekend I'd like to tip, yeah. Possibly for Norway :angel:

JustPetko
Dec 27th, 2010, 08:01 PM
Poland :p

Djezonfly
Jan 9th, 2011, 02:56 PM
I haven't read the whole thread yet but if you're looking for someone I'd like to play for France.

ma re
Jan 9th, 2011, 03:08 PM
^^ No problem:)

ma re
Jan 13th, 2011, 01:19 PM
Well people, FC weekend is approaching and I'd like to see if we'd agree on some ideas. The thread should be open a few days before the start of the competition, and everything should be agreed upon at least a few days before the thread is open, so I think we don't have much more than 10 days or so to settle everything. So here are my thoughts:

- that we play both WG and WG2 matches (singles only), including WG and WG2 play-offs; the reason is because if we wouldn't play the play-offs, only the first FC weekend would be really interesting, while the second (just the two semis) and the third (just the finals), wouldn't be much fun. This would give us 8 extra ties to play on the second week.

- I suggest that we don't form teams in advance after all. The reason is because I realized that many people will see the FC thread just a few days before the FC weekend for the first time, and if continue to form teams up until very late we might be in for a complete chaos. So I think everyone should be able to sign-up (by typing "in", just like for every tipping tournament) in that thread whenever and for which ever country they want. So just by typing "in + name of the country". Otherwise, many people would probably be disapppointed if we'd tell them they can't play because they didn't sign-up a month or so in advance, cause many probably don't even know that tipping will be played on the FC weekend.

- because of the fact that in the situations above we wouldn't be able to know the exact number of players for each country, I think it's best to go for the "dividing by the number of players" method of awarding points. So a total amount of points divided by the number of players representing that country.

But there are some more things to discuss. Like, do we want a table system like we have for tipping already, where all the countries would play all the rounds and get points for correct picks, with the winner being the team with the most points in the end. Or do we want a knock-out system, where teams would play against eachother in every round (but we'd have to be sure to have an even number of countries for that, and that's the tricky part). Or something totally different???

Also, do we value each correct tipp in every round the same or not? Maybe something like
1 point in the first rounds
0.5 for the WG2 play-offs
1.5 for the WG play-offs
2 for semis
and 3 for the finals would be good - all of course per correct tipp?

So to recap, on the first FC weekend there would be:
- 4 WG ties and 4 WG2 ties (first round of each).
On the second:
- 2 semis of WG, 4 WG play-offs and 4 WG2 play-offs.
And on the third there'd be just the finals, of course.

Another thing. In actual FED Cup there is a battle for the winner of each season, but also a continuous rankings system - do we follow with that too?

P. S. Try not to follow my example and please don't write huuuuuge posts cause we'll never get it done that way:lol:

Håkon
Jan 13th, 2011, 02:31 PM
Idea: countries with more than 2 players should be able to cancel their worst result.

Knockout would be a bit weird, we'd have to use PMs then I think because of strategic tipping - plus this is the newcomers' game, so imo we shouldn't demote new players to World Group II or III because their country wasn't in last year. I'd like a year-round table + a winner each week.

I like the suggested point system, but perhaps double it? So 2 - 1 -3 - 4 - 6? That way we avoid half-points. I think we should only count live matches as well. Perhaps we should give 8 for the final because there aren't that many matches, so the competition could be over already.

Short enough? :p

ma re
Jan 13th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Idea: countries with more than 2 players should be able to cancel their worst result.

So you don't like the idea of dividing the sum of points with the number of players, or I'm missing something here? Not sure I understand how this would be done. Like, if those with more than 2 players would cancel their worst result, we'd still have teams with various numbers of players...?

Knockout would be a bit weird, we'd have to use PMs then I think because of strategic tipping - plus this is the newcomers' game, so imo we shouldn't demote new players to World Group II or III because their country wasn't in last year. I'd like a year-round table + a winner each week.

1. I agree knock-out would be too tricky to do.
2. You missed a point, I'm not saying that those who were worst last year should play WG2 (not sure where you got that). I suggested that those who did best in the first round this year (this February) should maybe be allowed to play in the semis in April, while those that didn't do so well should maybe only be allowed to play the play-off ties that same weekend.
3. A winner each week? In FED Cup? Are you drunk:confused: :D

I like the suggested point system, but perhaps double it? So 2 - 1 -3 - 4 - 6? That way we avoid half-points. I think we should only count live matches as well. Perhaps we should give 8 for the final because there aren't that many matches, so the competition could be over already.

Agree with everything here. We don't have to decide on points for the later rounds already, but only on some general idea.

Short enough? :p

Yup!

:wavey:

Håkon
Jan 13th, 2011, 07:53 PM
So you don't like the idea of dividing the sum of points with the number of players, or I'm missing something here? Not sure I understand how this would be done. Like, if those with more than 2 players would cancel their worst result, we'd still have teams with various numbers of players...?

ok, let me explain with numbers

Alphaland has Bob, Carol and David in their team
Betaland has Eve and Phil
Gammaland has Joe, Irene, Kyle and Lisa.

Scores

Bob 18
Carol 14
David 10

Eve 14
Phil 12

Joe 17
Irene 14
Kyle 12
Lisa 11

Now, Alphaland and Gammaland take away their worst player

Alphaland 32 / 2 = 16
Betaland 26 / 2 = 13
Gammaland 43 / 3 = 14.33

I suppose it's not really necessary, but I thought it'd be a slight advantage to popular countries - it would avoid a 4-man team being punished because the 4th player doesn't tip on the final two days, for example.

And yeah, a winner each week is stupid, don't know what I was thinking there :lol:

ma re
Jan 14th, 2011, 11:12 AM
Aaaaah, got it, so canceling the worst score AND THEN dividing the points by the number of remaining players! Yeah, makes sense, could be interesting.

ma re
Jan 20th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Anyone have anything against this...

All the members of the teams post, each correct tipp is given a certain amount of points and then the combined amounts of points (for each team) are divided by the number of players. Suggestion of points given per correct tipp:

- on the first FED Cup weekend (February)
4 for each in the QF of WG (16 singles matches over two days)
2 for each in the R1 of WG2 (16 singles matches over two days)

- on the second FED Cup weekend (April)
5 for each in the SF of WG (8 singles matches over two days)
3 for each in the playoffs of WG (16 singles matches over two days)
1 for each in the playoffs of WG2 (16 singles matches over two days)

- on the third FED Cup weekend (November)
6 for each in the finals of World Group (4 singles matches over two days)

Any complaints, suggestions...?

ma re
Jan 25th, 2011, 02:02 PM
Just to inform you all that I'll probably create the FED Cup thread tomorrow and that I'll already list you as players who have already signed up, along with your choice of countries. In other words, if you have specified here that you'd like to play and mentioned the country for which you'd like to participate, you don't have to type "in" at the start of that thread. Of course, if you for some reason want to change your team choice, you can do that until the start of the first match, so a lot of time is left to decide.

Since no one complained about these ideas, we will:
- accept any player interested into the FC, as long as he/she specifies the team for which he/she wants to play, and as long as it's done before the start of the first match on the first day
- accept players who are "late for the sign-up" (who want to join after the competition has started), but only if they will play for a new team (some country that's not yet in the game)
- divide the overall number of points each team acquires each day by the number of players that have played that day for the team (those who forget to send won't count for the day - I think that's fair)
- give 4 and 2 points per correct tipp during the first FC weekend
- not count any matches played after the winner of the tie is known
- count all the results on the 52-week basis as well; in other words, we'll have continuous ranking of countries (so teams will have to defend points next year etc.) as well as a yearly competition for a season FC winner

So everything is pretty much settled. If you have some last-minute suggestions, feel free to write, so that we resolve everything in time.

Hope to see you all on February 5th and 6th in Tipping FED Cup:wavey:

Miracle Worker
Jan 25th, 2011, 04:58 PM
Poland

ma re
Jan 26th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Check it out:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=19063850#post19063850

Those of you who have participated in this thread but have not committed yet, you can now do it there:)