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View Full Version : Who has the better overall record: ClaySerena or GrassHenin?


dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:28 PM
I have a feeling I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but, considering people are going to keep questioning me over it, I thought I'd get it over with with one thread... :lol:

I'd honestly give it to Henin. YES, Serena's won the FO unlike Justine and Wimbledon but I really do feel the fact that Justine has the better overall record at Wimbledon (2 finals plus 3 semis really is better than 1 win and 1 semi imo), PLUS she's won the second-biggest grass tournament twice. Serena, OTOH, has won just two Tier One clay titles to go with her FO title.

Remember the question is who has the better overall record, which imo is different to who has achieved the most...

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:31 PM
You just don't wanna give up, do you?

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:33 PM
You just don't wanna give up, do you?

Nope. :)

Although I do hereby swear this will be the last poll I make on TF for 4 weeks.

AcesHigh
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Well this is similar to the Schiavone or JJ thread.

If you believe a slam trumps everything you should have voted Fran there and Serena here.
If you chose JJ or Dementieva there, I think you have to go with Henin here. Her record at Wimbledon is the best of this era (and maybe one of the best in the the last 20 years) of players who have never won Wimbledon. 2 finals, several SF.. very impressive.

But for me, like I picked Fran I have to go with Serena here.

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:37 PM
It reminds me Sharapova vs Henin thread at Wimbledon, Maria has the big win she has the edge.
Serena has the big win too she has the edge.

Shvedbarilescu
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Well this is similar to the Schiavone or JJ thread.

If you believe a slam trumps everything you should have voted Fran there and Serena here.
If you chose JJ or Dementieva there, I think you have to go with Henin here. Her record at Wimbledon is the best of this era (and maybe one of the best in the the last 20 years) of players who have never won Wimbledon. 2 finals, several SF.. very impressive.

But for me, like I picked Fran I have to go with Serena here.

Same here exactly.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:38 PM
It reminds me Sharapova vs Henin thread at Wimbledon, Maria has the big win she has the edge.
Serena has the big win too she has the edge.

Yep

Serena has a similar record on clay to Sharapova on grass.

If Sharapova on grass >> Henin on grass, then Serena on clay >> Henin on grass.

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=411320

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Well this is similar to the Schiavone or JJ thread.

If you believe a slam trumps everything you should have voted Fran there and Serena here.
If you chose JJ or Dementieva there, I think you have to go with Henin here. Her record at Wimbledon is the best of this era (and maybe one of the best in the the last 20 years) of players who have never won Wimbledon. 2 finals, several SF.. very impressive.

But for me, like I picked Fran I have to go with Serena here.

Not that impressive because there is NO win.

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:39 PM
It reminds me Sharapova vs Henin thread at Wimbledon, Maria has the big win she has the edge.
Serena has the big win too she has the edge.

Imo, it's even more tilted towards Justine in this one, because Serena has a big pool of clay-court tournaments that she could've won to beef up her clay-court credentials, but has done so on just TWO occasions... whereas there are few grass-court tournaments for either Sharapova or Justine to establish much of an edge in that respect.

Ferg
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:39 PM
Quaterena ftw

Slutiana
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:40 PM
Serena.

But these threads are so pointless.

John.
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Serena, but :yawn:

Olórin
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:44 PM
:spit:

P.s. Serena has a better winning % at RG than Justine at Wimbledon - partly because - she WON it.

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:49 PM
Imo, it's even more tilted towards Justine in this one, because Serena has a big pool of clay-court tournaments that she could've won to beef up her clay-court credentials, but has done so on just TWO occasions... whereas there are few grass-court tournaments for either Sharapova or Justine to establish much of an edge in that respect.

Justine has 2tier2 (I don't even know if Eastbourne is a tier1 :lol:) outside of her Wimbledon record. Serena has 2tiers1 on clay. And seriously you shouldn't even talk about tournaments because Henin is kinda lucky clay season is soooo long it's mostly because of that she has the edge in H2H with many players.

Keegan
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:50 PM
I would much rather have all 4 GS titles in my cabinet than 3 and a final or two, so I'll go for Serena.

Chorophyll
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:59 PM
Serena has a better winning record @ RG, including a win.
She has Rome W, Berlin F, Charleston W(are we including green clay?).

That is better than Justine on grass.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Serena has a better winning record @ RG, including a win.
She has Rome W, Berlin F, Charleston W(are we including green clay?).

That is better than Justine on grass.

:nods:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/3-42.png >> http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/2-42.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/4-35.png >> http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/6-45.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/5-41.png >> http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/ottman_turks/1-41.png

81% RG win-loss for Serena >> 79% Wimbledon win-loss record for Henin

Sexysova
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Serena has already win RG, right? Henin has never win Wimbledon, right?

so Serena :lol:

shap_half
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:34 PM
If you treat each match as equal (which is what a record is), then there's a clear, mathematical winner. I didn't do the the math so I don't know who that is.

RVD
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:39 PM
So now we're reduced to measuring and comparing the greatness and worth of players who've not won a particular title at a particular tourney, against those who HAVE won those titles and have proven themselves over and over.

I didn't want to admit it, but maybe woman's tennis IS turning to sh!t if this is the current analytical topic of the day. :sobbing:

Anyway, this is a no-brainer that's been discussed to ad infinitum.
The choice de jour is of course Serena.

Can we put this question to rest now? ....Pleeeeeeease....

Dave.
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:56 PM
ClaySerena > GrassHenin (their weaker surfaces)

ClayHenin > GrassSerena (their preferred surfaces)

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:58 PM
ClayHenin > GrassSerena (their preferred surfaces)

Wrong, Serena doesnt even like grass. Her prefered surface his hard.

Slutiana
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:59 PM
ClaySerena > GrassHenin (their weaker surfaces)

ClayHenin > GrassSerena (their preferred surfaces)
Serena's best surface is hard. It may have been grass back when she was more trim and quicker, but it's hard all the way now.

toby345
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:59 PM
ClaySerena > GrassHenin (their weaker surfaces)

ClayHenin > GrassSerena (their preferred surfaces)

Not anymore.

Uranus
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Serena has a better winning record @ RG, including a win.
She has Rome W, Berlin F, Charleston W(are we including green clay?).

That is better than Justine on grass.
There are many more clay titles for grabs than grass though :shrug:.

Dave.
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:07 PM
People!, I obviously meant preferred of the two.


Serena doesn't like grass? Poor Venus. :spit:

Gdsimmons
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Serena without a doubt

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:26 PM
Serena doesn't like grass? Poor Venus. :spit:

Nope, she said in the London Calling preview that 'she hates grass and only plays Wimbledon because she likes playing doubles there and because of Vee'.

Slutiana
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Nope, she said in the London Calling preview that 'she hates grass and only plays Wimbledon because she likes playing doubles there and because of Vee'.
She's not being serious though. :lol:

Olórin
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:33 PM
I like how he doesn't make this poll public. So the fools can't be named and shamed like in the Sharapova/Henin poll. :lol:

Dave.
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Nope, she said in the London Calling preview that 'she hates grass and only plays Wimbledon because she likes playing doubles there and because of Vee'.

hmm, well her results and the way she plays on the surface relative to other surfaces suggest it's her second best surface. What she actually thinks of it isn't relevant when ranking her success on it, and says more about the degree to which she enjoys her job than anything else.

spiritedenergy
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:35 PM
1 slam > 0 slams

Serena:worship:

1jackson2001
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:42 PM
I have a feeling I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but, considering people are going to keep questioning me over it, I thought I'd get it over with with one thread... :lol:

I'd honestly give it to Henin. YES, Serena's won the FO unlike Justine and Wimbledon but I really do feel the fact that Justine has the better overall record at Wimbledon (2 finals plus 3 semis really is better than 1 win and 1 semi imo), PLUS she's won the second-biggest grass tournament twice. Serena, OTOH, has won just two Tier One clay titles to go with her FO title.

Remember the question is who has the better overall record, which imo is different to who has achieved the most...

It depends on where you draw the line. You seem to like to draw it at the semifinal line. In which there is a decent case for Justine. However, I can just as simply draw it at the winner's line ;) or even the finals, in which case Serena wins imo. Or I can draw it at the quarterfinals line, where Serena also wins (Serena almost always gets to at least quarters, where Justine has been known to flame out in first round twice).

OR, we can all be less biased and just look at the overall records, from first round all the way up to winner's circle. Serena is consistent in making the 'middle rounds', whereas Justine blows hot and cold, going from first round losses all the way up to deep in the draw (semis and finals). In that regards, they are fairly similar. But then, to me, Serena's win puts her over the edge.

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Justine has 2tier2 (I don't even know if Eastbourne is a tier1 :lol:) outside of her Wimbledon record. Serena has 2tiers1 on clay.


There are no Tier I's on grass so this comparison is a bit useless.

Serena has won 3 WTA tourneys on clay in her whole career.
Justine has won 3 WTA tourneys on grass and since there are much more tourneys on clay than on grass, this gives Justine an advantage in that aspect.

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:17 PM
OR, we can all be less biased and just look at the overall records, from first round all the way up to winner's circle. Serena is consistent in making the 'middle rounds', whereas Justine blows hot and cold, going from first round losses all the way up to deep in the draw (semis and finals). In that regards, they are fairly similar. But then, to me, Serena's win puts her over the edge.


That is a bit unfair IMO to include Justine's first Wimbledon loss when she had just played for 1 year on the tour. There is only one bad first round loss for Justine in 2005 which is an anomaly and even that could be excused with injury/illness :p ;)

Donny
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:20 PM
From a previous thread:

I'll humor that.

Let's just assume for argument's sake that Serena's RG win= Henin's two finals at Wimbledon

Serena's semi at RG= one of Justine's semis at Wimbledon

Serena's five quarters= Justine's two other semis at WImbledon- this is a fair equivalence, no? I'm willing to hear arguments against this if you disagree

Then you compare Serena's other RG results (two 3rd rounds and a 4th round) to Justine's two first round losses at Wimbledon.



The only possible way which you could even consider Henin on grass equal to Serena on clay is if you:

Equate to finals to an actual win at a major

Argue that two slam semifinals are more of an achievement than five slam quarterfinals.

Equate Henin's first round losses at Wimbledon to Serena's 3rd round losses.

And of course, Serena has a better win percentage at RG than Henin does @ Wimbledon.

Arnian
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:23 PM
Justine has a better grass record than Serena does clay.

2 GS finals and 3 GS semifinals trumps 1 GS win and 1 semifinal :lol:

omoruyi
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:25 PM
ill take grassRena over ClayHenin :confused: is that so crazy?

:dog:

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:26 PM
RG + RG SF + Rome + 6-14 vs top-10 < 2 WIM RU + 3 WIM SF + 2 Eastbourne + Rosmalen + 7-7 vs top-10

Kworb
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Justine on grass

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:28 PM
RG + RG SF + Rome + 6-14 vs top-10 < 2 WIM RU + 3 WIM SF + 2 Eastbourne + Rosmalen + 7-7 vs top-10

Last time I checked Charleston was on clay.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:31 PM
If Justine's record on grass is better than Serena on clay, then that means her record on grass is better than Maria's record on grass too ?:spit:

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Last time I checked Charleston was on clay.

Check it again. Green clay is a fake clay. Just ask Davenport. And even if we threw in Charleston it wouldn't change a thing.

Uranium
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Serena.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:37 PM
1 FO title > 2 Wimbledon Finals.

I don't care if Justine had reached 90 Wimbledon Finals, she hasn't wont the title.

Winning 1 GS title > Reaching 1000000000 GS Finals.

This is a logic of imbecile.
Unless you REALLY believe that Myskina > Hingis, Sabatini and Martinez on clay and Martinez > Henin, Sanchez-Vicario and Seles on grass.

Donny
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:45 PM
Justine has a better grass record than Serena does clay.

2 GS finals and 3 GS semifinals trumps 1 GS win and 1 semifinal :lol:

Funny how you forget the five quarterfinals.

narutos
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:46 PM
There are no Tier I's on grass so this comparison is a bit useless.

Serena has won 3 WTA tourneys on clay in her whole career.
Justine has won 3 WTA tourneys on grass and since there are much more tourneys on clay than on grass, this gives Justine an advantage in that aspect.

I'm pretty sure her record would be less impressive if there were more tournaments on grass courts. We all know Sharapova and WS would have the edge on grass over her.

danieln1
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:47 PM
Simple:

Serena has Roland Garros, Henin never won Wimbledon, Serena has a better record on clay than Henin on grass

Mina Vagante
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:56 PM
This is a logic of imbecile.
Unless you REALLY believe that Myskina > Hingis, Sabatini and Martinez on clay and Martinez > Henin, Sanchez-Vicario and Seles on grass.

As a player, Myskina may not be the same quality as Hingis.

She has, however, won RG - which is something that Martina has not.

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:01 PM
I'm pretty sure her record would be less impressive if there were more tournaments on grass courts. We all know Sharapova and WS would have the edge on grass over her.


Yeah, we all know that ;)

Mightymirza
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:16 PM
:rolleyes: Justine needs to win a wimbledon :shrug:

Donny
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:20 PM
I have a feeling I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but, considering people are going to keep questioning me over it, I thought I'd get it over with with one thread... :lol:

I'd honestly give it to Henin. YES, Serena's won the FO unlike Justine and Wimbledon but I really do feel the fact that Justine has the better overall record at Wimbledon (2 finals plus 3 semis really is better than 1 win and 1 semi imo), PLUS she's won the second-biggest grass tournament twice. Serena, OTOH, has won just two Tier One clay titles to go with her FO title.

Remember the question is who has the better overall record, which imo is different to who has achieved the most...

Using your logic Serena's record at Wimbledon surpasses Henin's RG record.

Serena has:

3 Wimbledon titles

2 other finals

1 semi

2 quarters

And an 87% winning percentage

Henin has:

4 FO titles

1 other semis

And a 90% winning percentage

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:39 PM
Using your logic Serena's record at Wimbledon surpasses Henin's RG record.

Serena has:

3 Wimbledon titles

2 other finals

1 semi

2 quarters

And an 87% winning percentage

Henin has:

4 FO titles

1 other semis

And a 90% winning percentage

Yep.

Although nevertheless, Justine is the best of her generation on clay while Serena is the second-best on grass.

NadalSharapova
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:40 PM
dsanders, have u still not learnt how to count?

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:42 PM
dsanders, have u still not learnt how to count?

Yep... I counted up the ranking points which showed Henin had earned more ranking points at Wimbledon in her career than Serena had at RG. :shrug:

NadalSharapova
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:44 PM
Yep... I counted up the ranking points which showed Henin had earned more ranking points at Wimbledon in her career than Serena had at RG. :shrug:

ok, so several (enough pts to beat 1 win) 4th rd appearances is better than winning the title?

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:47 PM
ok, so several (enough pts to beat 1 win) 4th rd appearances is better than winning the title?

You'd need atleast six fourth-round appearances for that, and even that's only if the person who won the tournament never won a match there again.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:48 PM
Using your logic Serena's record at Wimbledon surpasses Henin's RG record.

Serena has:

3 Wimbledon titles

2 other finals

1 semi

2 quarters

And an 87% winning percentage

Henin has:

4 FO titles

1 other semis

And a 90% winning percentage

By that logic, the grass record of the second best grasscourter > Clay record of the best claycourt :lol: :lol: That reflects very poorly on Henin.:haha: :haha:

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:53 PM
By that logic, the grass record of the second best grasscourter > Clay record of the best claycourt :lol: :lol: That reflects very poorly on Henin.:haha: :haha:


Henin has won several big tourneys on clay, though. Serena has almost no achievements on grass bar Wimbledon. :p

switz
Jun 10th, 2010, 10:53 PM
In this tennis obsessed community there may be some debate on the issue but the simple reality is that Serena has won Roland Garros and some quality titles on surface whereas Henin has never won Wimbledon and only won some titles in grass tournament the best grass court players (ie Serena/Venus) never play.

narutos
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:10 AM
Henin has won several big tourneys on clay, though. Serena has almost no achievements on grass bar Wimbledon. :p

But you said yourself it's because there is very few tournaments out of Wimbledon.

bandabou
Jun 11th, 2010, 06:06 AM
:lol: Juju on grass is tough..but what is she buying for that? As long as she doesn't win Wimbledon, then Serena lone RG win outshines her, no?

Pops Maellard
Jun 11th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Clayrena.

A Serena on Grass VS Justine on Clay poll would be more interesting...

bandabou
Jun 11th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Clayrena.

A Serena on Grass VS Justine on Clay poll would be more interesting...

Indeed..or Serena at the Oz vs Justine on clay.

debby
Jun 11th, 2010, 09:23 AM
Indeed..or Serena at the Oz vs Justine on clay.

Serena has won the AO this year, Justine hasn't, so the edge goes to Serena ( 5 AO > 4 RG) because she is still dominant there :lol:

GrassRena vs ClayHenin could be interesting indeed.

Dsanders, I am waiting for your next poll. :happy:

thegreendestiny
Jun 11th, 2010, 09:43 AM
Serena on clay of course. She may not be as fast as Justine on clay but her movement is still pretty impressive.

bandabou
Jun 11th, 2010, 11:29 AM
I don't care how you sliced it..Serena has won the BIGGEST tournaments on clay, while Juju hasn't done the same on grass.

won RG, Rome, Charleston..finals at Berlin, Charleston. I mean, clearly thrumps ANYthing Juju's done on grass.

Renalicious
Jun 11th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Of course Serena.

kiwialicat
Jun 11th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Serena on clay of course. She may not be as fast as Justine on clay but her movement is still pretty impressive.

no, not really. In fact her movement on clay is somewhere between good-decent (when she can be bothered) and pretty poor (when she can't be bothered) but never is it particularly impressive. On clay at least.

Kworb
Jun 11th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Good to see Justine winning the poll (after removing biased votes).

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 11th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Serena is 6-14 (30%) vs top-tenners on red clay. %-wise this is probably the worst record among all GS champions of the last 20 years.

Edit: yes, my only concern was Novotna but she's 8-14 vs top-10 on red clay.

Matt01
Jun 11th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Serena is 6-14 (30%) vs top-tenners on red clay. %-wise this is probably the worst record among all GS champions of the last 20 years.

Edit: yes, my only concern was Novotna but she's 8-14 vs top-10 on red clay.


Wow. :eek:

rockstar
Jun 11th, 2010, 02:49 PM
as a non-fan of both, i honestly think justine's game on grass has been more impressive than serena on clay. she has a great record all round too, but of course, "it's the slams that count" eh?

narutos
Jun 11th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Serena is 6-14 (30%) vs top-tenners on red clay. %-wise this is probably the worst record among all GS champions of the last 20 years.

Edit: yes, my only concern was Novotna but she's 8-14 vs top-10 on red clay.

Give me a break with your stats, Henin never faced any good/great player on grass when she was winning Eastbourne she beat the like of Myskina it ain't a big achievement.

vejh
Jun 11th, 2010, 03:42 PM
Without looking at statistics, Ju has a much better record on grass than Serena on clay. I don't think there should be an argument about this. Not to mention that she plays great on grass while Serena struggles most of the time on clay.

Can we close this thread now? :)

Serenita
Jun 11th, 2010, 04:03 PM
http://www.wimbledon-tennis.com/wp-content/gallery/serena-williams/serena-williams-won-wimbledon-2009-woman-champion.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/432/slideshow_43220/display_image.jpg





http://stbjp.msn.com/i/26/776BC8E5EA1526C8524CAD91B33886.jpg


:wavey:

Matt01
Jun 11th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Give me a break with your stats, Henin never faced any good/great player on grass when she was winning Eastbourne she beat the like of Myskina it ain't a big achievement.


Mauresmo? :rolleyes:

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:48 PM
Give me a break with your stats, Henin never faced any good/great player on grass when she was winning Eastbourne she beat the like of Myskina it ain't a big achievement.

Serena's top-10 wins on red clay: Capriati (2), Venus, Mauresmo at RG, Martinez, slamless Henin
Henin's top-10 wins on grass: Clijsters (3), Mauresmo, injured Serena, Seles, Capriati

But you also think Myskina was not a good player so I quit talking to an idiot.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:49 PM
http://www.wimbledon-tennis.com/wp-content/gallery/serena-williams/serena-williams-won-wimbledon-2009-woman-champion.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/432/slideshow_43220/display_image.jpg





http://stbjp.msn.com/i/26/776BC8E5EA1526C8524CAD91B33886.jpg


:wavey:

:worship:

narutos
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Serena's top-10 wins on red clay: Capriati (2), Venus, Mauresmo at RG, Martinez, slamless Henin
Henin's top-10 wins on grass: Clijsters (3), Mauresmo, injured Serena, Seles, Capriati

But you also think Myskina was not a good player so I quit talking to an idiot.

A great player on grass I mean, her run at Wimbledon speak for itself and she has only 2 final on grass so far(Eastbourne). So yeah she is not great on grass courts, neither is Clijsters.

narutos
Jun 11th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Mauresmo? :rolleyes:

I give you that.

OneSlamWonder
Jun 11th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Seems like Ree is better, when you consider overall game. And trust me on this, as JJ fan, Ree having RG title was not the decider :)

shap_half
Jun 11th, 2010, 08:36 PM
A great player on grass I mean, her run at Wimbledon speak for itself and she has only 2 final on grass so far(Eastbourne). So yeah she is not great on grass courts, neither is Clijsters.

Myskina is a pretty good player on grass. Just because she's not racking up Wimbledon titles doesn't mean she's a pushover. You're obviously deranged: you're the very same poster who thinks Sharapova has comparable record in Australia to Henin.

Lucemferre
Jun 11th, 2010, 08:43 PM
IT's easier to have a better recordon grass because there are only two tournamnts.Henin record is better but Serena has the bigger title.

starin
Jun 11th, 2010, 08:45 PM
http://www.wimbledon-tennis.com/wp-content/gallery/serena-williams/serena-williams-won-wimbledon-2009-woman-champion.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/432/slideshow_43220/display_image.jpg





http://stbjp.msn.com/i/26/776BC8E5EA1526C8524CAD91B33886.jpg


:wavey:

:spit:
this says it all.

bandabou
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:20 PM
:lol: Grasping a straws..:lol: It's like saying prior to last year that Roger was better on clay than Rafa was on grass..in the end Rafa was the one who won RG and Wimbledon.

Lulu.
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:23 PM
Clayrena. It's pretty obvious. :shrug:

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:27 PM
:lol: Grasping a straws..:lol: It's like saying prior to last year that Roger was better on clay than Rafa was on grass..

Did Serena defeat Henin to win Roland Garros? Did she reach 3 straight finals at Roland Garros?

Diesel
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:28 PM
http://www.wimbledon-tennis.com/wp-content/gallery/serena-williams/serena-williams-won-wimbledon-2009-woman-champion.jpg http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/432/slideshow_43220/display_image.jpg





http://stbjp.msn.com/i/26/776BC8E5EA1526C8524CAD91B33886.jpg


:wavey:

First a :spit: and then a :haha:

Saula
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:39 PM
You just don't wanna give up, do you?

+1000

friendsita
Jun 14th, 2010, 05:41 PM
bottom line: Serena won Roland Garros, Justine didn't win Wimbledon.

Calypso
Jun 14th, 2010, 06:13 PM
Clayrena

She won Rena Garros

bandabou
Jun 14th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Did Serena defeat Henin to win Roland Garros? Did she reach 3 straight finals at Roland Garros?

Neither did Roger do at his RG win. So Nadal IS better on grass than Roger on clay?! :eek:

Donny
Jun 14th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Without looking at statistics, Ju has a much better record on grass than Serena on clay. I don't think there should be an argument about this. Not to mention that she plays great on grass while Serena struggles most of the time on clay.

Can we close this thread now? :)

*Sees Henin's two first round losses at the most important grass tournament*

*Sees Serena's perfect first round record at Roland Garros*

*has trouble reconciling this with vejh's claim*

*cognitive dissonance ensues*

Gdsimmons
Jun 14th, 2010, 09:42 PM
Miss Rena

terjw
Jun 14th, 2010, 10:32 PM
To answer the question in the title - then overall Serena because she did win it. No real doubt on that.

But it was a such a long time ago and when I think of them lately Serena is well stuck as quarterena now at RG while Justine - although more up and down on grass - was getting better and better with two Eastbourne titles and the last 2 years she played at Wimbledon in 06 and 07 were F and SF.

Be interesting to see if she goes out early at Wimbledon in her comeback year or keeps up these good results she had in 06 and 07.

Matt01
Jun 14th, 2010, 11:39 PM
*Sees Henin's two first round losses at the most important grass tournament*

*Sees Serena's perfect first round record at Roland Garros*

*has trouble reconciling this with vejh's claim*

*cognitive dissonance ensues*


:weirdo:

Diesel
Jun 14th, 2010, 11:39 PM
*Sees Henin's two first round losses at the most important grass tournament*

*Sees Serena's perfect first round record at Roland Garros*

*has trouble reconciling this with vejh's claim*

*cognitive dissonance ensues*

:yeah:

Donny
Jun 15th, 2010, 12:44 AM
:weirdo:

*uses smilies in place of a substantive rebuttal*

VS Fan
Jun 15th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Maybe I missed something in the original question, But has not Serena WON Wimbledon THREE times (2002, 2003, 2009) and played the final TWICE and lost to Maria (2004)and Venus (2008)?
SF: 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 15th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Neither did Roger do at his RG win. So Nadal IS better on grass than Roger on clay?! :eek:

That's what you have stated. Why :eek:ing now? :confused:
Or I misunderstood you? My apology then.

Donny
Jun 15th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Maybe I missed something in the original question, But has not Serena WON Wimbledon THREE times (2002, 2003, 2009) and played the final TWICE and lost to Maria (2004)and Venus (2008)?
SF: 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009.

CLAYSerena, not GrassSerena.

VS Fan
Jun 15th, 2010, 01:10 AM
CLAYSerena, not GrassSerena.

I think I understand now, but this would require more thought than I am willing to consider at the moment. I would need a complete list of Justine on grass vs Serena on clay. I think Serena might have a slight edge here. However One Roland Garros win as good as it is, would have to be compared along with Serena's performance in other clay court Tourneys. Since Serena normally plays only ONE grass tournament, it makes the comparison even harder.
Hmmm.... If the US Open and the Australian Slams were still on GRASS, what would Serena and Venus' Slam totals be??

bandabou
Jun 15th, 2010, 04:25 AM
That's what you have stated. Why :eek:ing now? :confused:
Or I misunderstood you? My apology then.

At first I thought that Roger on clay was better than Rafa on grass..but then your post made me realise that it was the other way around. Rafa on grass is better than Roger on clay..because Rafa beat Roger at Wimbledon while Roger still hasn't beaten Rafa at RG.

Comparison clearly doesn't go for Henin vs Serena...cause Henin still ZERO Wimbledons, while Serena has won RG.

CanIGetAWhat
Sep 11th, 2013, 05:50 AM
I have a feeling I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but, considering people are going to keep questioning me over it, I thought I'd get it over with with one thread... :lol:

I'd honestly give it to Henin. YES, Serena's won the FO unlike Justine and Wimbledon but I really do feel the fact that Justine has the better overall record at Wimbledon (2 finals plus 3 semis really is better than 1 win and 1 semi imo), PLUS she's won the second-biggest grass tournament twice. Serena, OTOH, has won just two Tier One clay titles to go with her FO title.

Remember the question is who has the better overall record, which imo is different to who has achieved the most...

There are no Tier I's on grass so this comparison is a bit useless.

Serena has won 3 WTA tourneys on clay in her whole career.
Justine has won 3 WTA tourneys on grass and since there are much more tourneys on clay than on grass, this gives Justine an advantage in that aspect.

Justine has a better grass record than Serena does clay.

2 GS finals and 3 GS semifinals trumps 1 GS win and 1 semifinal :lol:

RG + RG SF + Rome + 6-14 vs top-10 < 2 WIM RU + 3 WIM SF + 2 Eastbourne + Rosmalen + 7-7 vs top-10

Justine on grass

Good to see Justine winning the poll (after removing biased votes).

Without looking at statistics, Ju has a much better record on grass than Serena on clay. I don't think there should be an argument about this. Not to mention that she plays great on grass while Serena struggles most of the time on clay.

Can we close this thread now? :)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mat7cnIkLp1rzapx4o1_500.gif

Two FO titles trumps anything Justine has ever accomplished on grass.

semprelibera
Sep 11th, 2013, 06:07 AM
These necrobumps :lol:

bandabou
Sep 11th, 2013, 06:16 AM
:rolls: :haha: Douchesanders...so is he/she gonna go on 'hiatus' for another year?! Man, no wonder he doesn't like Serena. Everytime Serena just makes him/her look a total fool.

double career slam baby! :bounce:

iWill
Sep 11th, 2013, 06:54 AM
:hysteric: :hysteric: :hysteric:

shoryuken
Sep 11th, 2013, 06:57 AM
Mess https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-exl0n5IC7R8/UOVQz6o_8yI/AAAAAAAABZM/B6V94d7oA5E/s300/YECfall2.gif

Serenita
Sep 11th, 2013, 07:10 AM
Douche is such a fail.:rolls:


http://24.media.tumblr.com/702cd5a3d36c8711636d41fd199253c7/tumblr_mswtw9t0df1s2gg27o1_250.gif

gbenga
Sep 11th, 2013, 10:19 AM
I have a feeling I'm gonna get slaughtered for this, but, considering people are going to keep questioning me over it, I thought I'd get it over with with one thread... :lol:

I'd honestly give it to Henin. YES, Serena's won the FO unlike Justine and Wimbledon but I really do feel the fact that Justine has the better overall record at Wimbledon (2 finals plus 3 semis really is better than 1 win and 1 semi imo), PLUS she's won the second-biggest grass tournament twice. Serena, OTOH, has won just two Tier One clay titles to go with her FO title.

Remember the question is who has the better overall record, which imo is different to who has achieved the most...

This failed douchesanders thread is a sure sign that Serena will eventually equal or surpass Henin's RG titles. :lol:

bandabou
Sep 11th, 2013, 10:29 AM
He KNEW Serena would prove him/her wrong and he STILL did it anyway?! :sobbing:

In the words of Daniel Faraday to his mother in Lost (after he found out that his mother had always known that he would die on the island.): "You knew, you always knew this would happen? Yet you still sent me anyway?!" :sobbing:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Sep 11th, 2013, 10:31 AM
Still laughing at this logic that a bunch of loses are greater than a win :lol: Only on TF

Human Nature
Sep 11th, 2013, 10:39 AM
Watch out haters !cause serena is ready to SNATCH justine's record at Roland Garros :bounce:

tennisphilia
Sep 11th, 2013, 11:51 AM
Serena. But, there are 48 voters for Justine, so I'm not really sure what their argument for Justine is. Die hard fans?