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View Full Version : Who is greater clay (court) player: Myskina or Schiavone??


Direwolf
Jun 10th, 2010, 03:56 PM
:confused::confused::confused:

please show facts and figures...

:o:o:o

Direwolf
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:00 PM
or should I ask...

they're like GS winners
with nothing to back up...

Chakvenus
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:29 PM
well i'd say they're the same then - both have one random, yet well-deserved run to the RG title.

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Schiavone.

Myskina always sucked on clay prior to that RG win.

spiritedenergy
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:34 PM
Schiavone:worship:

Sharapowerr
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:37 PM
Myskina , she was just a better player overall

Graf~Dokic
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Myskina , she was just a better player overall

Agreed!

toby345
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:40 PM
One's for sure. They both have got quite a fluky RG :rolls:

Hian
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:44 PM
:confused::confused::confused:

please show facts and figures...

:o:o:o

I guess you are 10. I'm wrong?

RenaSlam.
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:45 PM
Schiavone.

Myskina always sucked on clay prior to that RG win.

It's not like Fran was tremendous either. Only one QF before this year and that was in 2001.

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:47 PM
It's not like Fran was tremendous either. Only one QF before this year and that was in 2001.
I'm not just talking about RG results, but clay in general. Schiavone is a much better clay-courter than Myskina.

Overall, it's obviously Nastya.

Uranus
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:49 PM
One's for sure. They both have got quite a fluky RG :rolls:
Myskina's run was everything but flukey.

spencercarlos
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Myskina is prettier!

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 10th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Myskina's run was everything but flukey.
If I ever had to call a GS run flukey, hers would be the one I'd pick. Not based on the players she beat as much as how awful they all played against her. :o

spiritedenergy
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Myskina , she was just a better player overall

the poll says on clay:wavey:

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Overall, clearly Myskina.
On clay, Schiavone I think. Did Myskina win anything on clay other than RG?

Vespertine69
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:17 PM
Schiavone... I'm a huge Myskina fan, but really clay was her worst surface - it's still pretty amazing that she won the slam there... But please... she beat perfectly good players to win, and besides Dementieva's collapse in the final, the others didn't play that badly and Nastya was playing amazingly that 2nd week. Also, Venus was on a really hot streak on clay in 04, so the win was good.

AnywhereButHome
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Myskina of course!

WhatTheDeuce
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:20 PM
besides Dementieva's collapse in the final, the others didn't play that badly
Capriati and Venus were both way below par IMO, but I'll agree to disagree.

frenchie
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:25 PM
Overall, clearly Myskina.
On clay, Schiavone I think. Did Myskina win anything on clay other than RG?

Palermo 99 and Sarasota 03
Tier 4 and 3

Clay was Nastya's worst surface but she still is 10 times better than schiavone in every department:rolleyes:

Schiavone was her bitch anyway

Uranus
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:31 PM
If I ever had to call a GS run flukey, hers would be the one I'd pick. Not based on the players she beat as much as how awful they all played against her. :o
Everyone was sucky on clay at the time, and she was pretty much the only decent player on every surface. Defeated several champions en route to the title. Was #2 in the world, close to #1 and if I remember well, ITF player of the year.
Kuznetsova's USO, Schiavone's RG were more flukey IMO.

rockstar
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:31 PM
myskina sucked so bad on clay, dont know she won the title in 2004 :lol:

was it the only time she passed in the second round in rg?

Matt01
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:37 PM
was it the only time she passed in the second round in rg?


No, I remember her playing against Henin in 2006 in the 4th round of RG. Myskina clearly lost but she didn't even play that badly, Henin was just too strong.

Shvedbarilescu
Jun 10th, 2010, 05:49 PM
I'm not just talking about RG results, but clay in general. Schiavone is a much better clay-courter than Myskina.

Overall, it's obviously Nastya.

Agree. Nastya was the better player overall but Fran is the better player on clay.

John.
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:03 PM
Schiavone

danieln1
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:03 PM
Clay court obviously Schiavone, just check their clay careers, Schiavone by a mile!!!!

But overall, Myskina had way more quality wins than Francesca...

dsanders06
Jun 10th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Now THIS one I'd give to Schiavone. :lol:

Myskina overall though.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:45 PM
Myskina's results at red clay court events :
not including 2007 Roland Garros

Tier II and above :
17 trns; WON-1 QF-3 4R-1 3R-1 2R-2 1R-9; W/L 20-16 (55.56%)
Mickey Mouse :
9 trns; WON-1 RU-1 SF-2 QF-2 2R-1 1R-2; W/L 16-8 (66.67%)
Fed Cup : 6-3 (66.67%)
Overall W/L record : 42-27 (60.87%)
Top-10 record : 5-9 (35.71%)
wins over V.Williams (2), Capriati, Dementieva, Dokic
Top-20 record : 8-10 (44.44%)
wins over V.Williams (2), Capriati, Dementieva, Dokic, Kuznetsova, Hantuchova, Schett


Schiavone's results at red clay court events :

Tier II and above :
35 trns; WON-1 SF-1 QF-6 4R-3 3R-6 2R-8 1R-10; W/L 55-34 (61.80%)
Mickey Mouse :
18 trns; WON-2 RU-1 SF-1 QF-5 2R-5 1R-4; W/L 32-16 (66.67%)
Fed Cup : 14-4 (77.78%)
Overall W/L record : 101-54 (65.16%)
Top-10 record : 9-15 (37.50%)
wins over Mauresmo (3), S.Williams (2, 1-ret), Kuznetsova, Dementieva (ret), Wozniacki, Stosur
Top-20 record : 18-22 (45.00%)
wins over Mauresmo (3), S.Williams (2, 1-ret), Kuznetsova, Dementieva (ret), Wozniacki, Stosur, Coetzer, Maleeva, Tulyaganova, Daniilidou, Likhovtseva, Pennetta, Golovin, Bondarenko, Li


As you see Schiavone has better tournament record, better W/L record, better top-10 record and better top-20 record.

OsloErik
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Record at Roland Garros

Myskina: 11-7 (4-7 without title run)
Schiavone: 22-10 (15-10 without title run)

Titles on Clay

Myskina: 3 (RG and two Tier IV events)
Schiavone: 3 (RG, a Tier III and a Tier IV event)

Career Clay Record

Myskina: 58-38 (60.42%)
Schiavone: 124-69 (64.25%)


The only real stat Myskina has an advantage is in beating top players, and while Schiavone's road to the title wasn't as impressive as Myskina's, she's had a fairly impressive number of top 20 wins on clay dating back steadily to 2001: Maggie Maleeva, Amanda Coetzer, Tulyaganova, Smashnova, Mauresmo (in Warsaw, so it counts), she beat Serena when Serena was a top 5 player, Kuznetsova as a top 10er coming off her Miami win, Pennetta and Groenefeld as top 20 players, Likhovteva her semifinal year, Kuznetsova a month before winning the French...

Frankly, I don't recall any major Myskina clay wins other than that title run. And, to be honest, Capriati-Venus-Dementieva isn't quite Henin-Serena-Jankovic...

OsloErik
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Haha, AnnaK, didn't see your post above mine. So apparently she doesn't have an advantage ANYWHERE, just difficulty of title run, and that's pretty weak stuff to stake your superiority on.

Schiavone all the way.

Slutiana
Jun 10th, 2010, 07:55 PM
I don't think either are flukey slam winners. Myskina because she was a great player and Francesca because of how well she played, that was anything but luck last week.

Thanks for the stats.

miffedmax
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:18 PM
Myskina didn't take part in a final that never happened, whereas Fran didn't take part in a semifinal that never happened.

Therefore Fran's FO title exists, and while the other is merely a case of mass hysteria induced hallucination.

Edge: Fran.

terjw
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:23 PM
Frankly, I don't recall any major Myskina clay wins other than that title run. And, to be honest, Capriati-Venus-Dementieva isn't quite Henin-Serena-Jankovic...

Not sure where you get this Henin-Serena-Jankovic from :confused:. If your intention was to state the players Fran beat to win the FO - it was Caro-Lena(retired)-Sam. I don't go anything on this "who a player has to beat BS" personally. You beat all the players in your way that noone else could do. But if you do make anything of who she beat - then Capriati-Venus-Dementieva seems the more difficult path to me.

VIKA?
Jun 10th, 2010, 08:26 PM
Myskina, of course.

Marionated
Jun 10th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Fran.

Direwolf
Jun 11th, 2010, 02:45 AM
Top-10 record : 5-9 (35.71%)
wins over V.Williams (2), Capriati, Dementieva, Dokic

Schiavone's results at red clay court events :


Top-10 record : 9-15 (37.50%)
wins over Mauresmo (3), S.Williams (2, 1-ret), Kuznetsova, Dementieva (ret), Wozniacki, Stosur



As you see Schiavone has better tournament record, better W/L record, better top-10 record and better top-20 record.

Fran almost always trouble Serena
seems like they both beat inconsistent clay court players...

Without RG2004... Myskina would only have beatn Venus n Dokic
:o

madlove
Jun 11th, 2010, 04:11 AM
schiavone i think.. but overall, myskina is a more consistent player. but who knows? schiavone may finally found her fire and continue her run.

OsloErik
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:15 AM
Not sure where you get this Henin-Serena-Jankovic from :confused:. If your intention was to state the players Fran beat to win the FO - it was Caro-Lena(retired)-Sam. I don't go anything on this "who a player has to beat BS" personally. You beat all the players in your way that noone else could do. But if you do make anything of who she beat - then Capriati-Venus-Dementieva seems the more difficult path to me.

No, it was a bad way of making my point. People seem to be making a huge deal of Myskina's road to the title, but that trio represents a total of one French title and three French finals. It's not really as crazy intimidating as people make it. Granted, Fran's is certainly a less impressive road, but if this three-player stretch is all people are clinging to, it seems a weak argument.

Especially considering the two's respective CAREER records against top 10 players on clay.

Sammy Stones
Jun 11th, 2010, 05:45 AM
on clay, fran

Direwolf
Jun 11th, 2010, 06:17 AM
Schiavone is leading the poll by 2 votes...

couldnt come any closer!!

amazing!!

jimbo mack
Jun 11th, 2010, 06:46 AM
on clay schiavone

every other surface myskina

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 11th, 2010, 09:12 AM
No, it was a bad way of making my point. People seem to be making a huge deal of Myskina's road to the title, but that trio represents a total of one French title and three French finals. It's not really as crazy intimidating as people make it.

I don't recall anyone claiming it was "crazy intimidating" though.
Btw, not that I disagree with you but do you ignore Myskina's win over Kuznetsova on purpose?

ste86
Jun 11th, 2010, 09:24 AM
On clay Schiavone.

Leo_DFP
Jun 11th, 2010, 01:55 PM
On clay, it's obviously Schiavone.

Maybe 39 people here don't know anything about tennis, but Myskina was never good on clay. The French just happened to be the Slam where it all came together for her. She was much better on grass, indoors, and fast hardcourts.

OsloErik
Jun 11th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I don't recall anyone claiming it was "crazy intimidating" though.
Btw, not that I disagree with you but do you ignore Myskina's win over Kuznetsova on purpose?

Yep. I always ingore that win and Henin's win a year later. Objectivity only goes so far.

It merits notice, though, that her win over Kuznetsova came before Kuznetsova's final or title at the French. It even came before Kuznetsova's title at the US Open.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jun 11th, 2010, 11:31 PM
I've never been impressed by the level of Schiavone
Myskina reached a high level of tennis at her best

$uricate
Jun 11th, 2010, 11:42 PM
I love Nasty, but Fran has probably played better on clay during her career. She also reached another RG quarterfinal in 2001, something Nastya never managed to do.

That said, clay is Nastya's worst surface, I know she won a slam on it but apart from that how many times has she been past the quarters of any clay event? :o
Her game was much more suited to indoor carpet and grass :drool:

OsloErik
Jun 13th, 2010, 04:39 AM
I've never been impressed by the level of Schiavone
Myskina reached a high level of tennis at her best

On clay? Name me a match better than Schiavone killing Wozniacki or knocking out Sam Stosur, whom EVERYONE thought was going to win.