PDA

View Full Version : Who was greater?


omoruyi
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:10 AM
i guess they played in the same era...
~

Helena Sukova or Gabriela Sabatini ~ :)

AcesHigh
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:18 AM
....really?

RenaSlam.
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:37 AM
Errr..

Volcana
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:55 AM
Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.

twight6
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:00 AM
Lindsay Davenport

Dave.
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:05 AM
Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.

Sabatini has the edge, but I wouldn't say she was much better. Sukova still reached more grand slam finals than Sabatini.

Sukova for the poll no question.

omoruyi
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:07 AM
Sukova. Sabatini is obviusly the more famous,and much the better singles player, but that wasn't the question. Actually, we've acquired the perfect example of how much does one singles slam dwarfs a bunch of doubles slams. If one singles slam is worth that much, Schiavone is greater than Zvereva.

was sabatini MUCH better or slightly better(she played in more singles major finals according to the ~Wiki~, but yeah' i agree with your points. thats why i brought it up...i had no idea Sukova was such a noteable player. I'd heard the name before but...

xan
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:27 AM
Besides her singles achievements, Sukova had fourteen grand slam doubles titles.

In 1993 at the US Open, Sukova took the Womens Doubles Title, the Mixed doubles title, and was the losing singles finalist to Steffi. Amazing achievement.

omoruyi
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:31 AM
Besides her singles achievements, Sukova had fourteen grand slam doubles titles.

In 1993 at the US Open, Sukova took the Womens Doubles Title, the Mixed doubles title, and was the losing singles finalist to Steffi. Amazing achievement.
:eek:
*goes to check Wiki to see if martina (eitehr one) completed the triple-feat*

edit: Navratilova did it at the '87 US Open!!!!

spencercarlos
Jun 9th, 2010, 02:05 AM
i guess they played in the same era...
~

Helena Sukova or Gabriela Sabatini ~ :)
Sukova was a very gifted player no doubt. I think Sabatini´s singles carreer >> Sukova. But at the same time Sukova´s doubles carreer was >>>> than Sabatini´s....

I would take Sabatini´s carreer in singles over Sukova´s doubles´s.

This would be like saying Paola Suarez >>> Sabatini because of her doubles sucess. Sorry but Singles >>>> Doubles....

Still Sukova´s 1993 Usopen was simply amazing.. :bounce:

Shvedbarilescu
Jun 9th, 2010, 04:17 AM
Sukova was a very gifted player no doubt. I think Sabatini´s singles carreer >> Sukova. But at the same time Sukova´s doubles carreer was >>>> than Sabatini´s....

I would take Sabatini´s carreer in singles over Sukova´s doubles´s.

This would be like saying Paola Suarez >>> Sabatini because of her doubles sucess. Sorry but Singles >>>> Doubles....

Still Sukova´s 1993 Usopen was simply amazing.. :bounce:

Yes Sabatini's singles career >> Sukova's. Granted.
and yes Sukova's doubles career >>>> Sabatini's.

But I have to disagree on the third part saying that calling Sukova's career better than Sabatini's is like saying Paola Suarez's career is better than Sabatini's.

This is obviously because Sukova's singles career >>>> Suarez's.
While Sabatini does have an edge singles wise it certainly is not a huge edge at all. It really depends just how much one weights the doubles as to whether that tips the balance. But as the difference in singles career's is fairly close it doesn't require one to be giving doubles as strong a regard as singles for that weighting to make a difference.

This is actually one of those who "is/was greater" polls that's really quite a clever one in that I don't think there is a clear cut answer. It is much like Sanchez Vicario v Davenport where one can make a reasonable good case for both girls and it really does come to a matter of opinion based on how an individual bases numerous different factors. Some of these "who is greater" polls are no brainers. This one is not.

The way I personally would weigh all the criteria I would have Sukova ahead but by a very small margin. But I suspect slightly more will have Sabatini ahead although, again, I suspect for most, by a small margin. Either way, it comes down to how each individual weighs different criteria, and also, considering how close they are, how much one likes each player personally and remembers each player will make a difference with a lot of people too. In other words this is another toughy was no easy simple answer.

spencercarlos
Jun 9th, 2010, 04:46 AM
This is obviously because Sukova's singles career >>>> Suarez's.
While Sabatini does have an edge singles wise it certainly is not a huge edge at all
Yeah Sukova >>> Suarez in singles, with a lot of slam finals... but..
Sabatini has 1 GS win in Singles, 2 YEC wins, 2 YEC RU... 27 Titles..
Sukova has 0 GS wins in singles 0 YEC wins, 0 YEC RU, 10 titles mostly MM..... sorry but you can argue that they are somehow close? ... :tape:

Lets not even talk about rankings where Gaby was a consistent performer top 10 player for most of her carreer, top 5 for half of her carreer between 1988 and 1993, and briefly in 1995, 18 grand slam semifinals. Sukova was a consistent performer as well and despite 4 GS finals, which is a great result for her, her most consistent results at slams were QF-R16, while for Sabatini were SF-Qf...

I think there is a big difference between a consistent top ten/top 5 player and a top 15/top 20 player which Sukova was for most of her carreer.

DimaDinosaur
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:42 AM
wow, 4 GS finals and no title, too bad for sukova

SoClose
Jun 9th, 2010, 07:33 AM
Sabatini.

Shvedbarilescu
Jun 9th, 2010, 09:17 AM
Yeah Sukova >>> Suarez in singles, with a lot of slam finals... but..
Sabatini has 1 GS win in Singles, 2 YEC wins, 2 YEC RU... 27 Titles..
Sukova has 0 GS wins in singles 0 YEC wins, 0 YEC RU, 10 titles mostly MM..... sorry but you can argue that they are somehow close? ... :tape:

Lets not even talk about rankings where Gaby was a consistent performer top 10 player for most of her carreer, top 5 for half of her carreer between 1988 and 1993, and briefly in 1995, 18 grand slam semifinals. Sukova was a consistent performer as well and despite 4 GS finals, which is a great result for her, her most consistent results at slams were QF-R16, while for Sabatini were SF-Qf...

I think there is a big difference between a consistent top ten/top 5 player and a top 15/top 20 player which Sukova was for most of her carreer.

I am afraid that is something of a misrepresentation of Sukova's career. She did actually finish in the top 10 for six consecutive seasons which is actually pretty good. In Grand Slams she certainly was indeed roughly one round less good that Gabi, hence Sabatini's 18 Grand Slam semis vs 17 Grand Slam quarters for Sukova. Yes, Sabatini did have a very substantially better singles career. I don't think anyone could argue that, but Sukova's singles career was still a highly successful one, comparable with that of Elena Dementieva's current career.

Obviously however this debate only comes into it's own when one starts to take account of Sukova's doubles career which takes in some 73 titles including 14 in Grand Slams. This is a lot. How much weight one puts on a players doubles success when comparing players is very much up to the individual. Some people give it little value, others give it a very substantial value.

For me personally I certainly don't give anything like as much value to a doubles career as I do a singles career but when that doubles career is as good as Sukova's it does make a difference and for me in this instance it does just give her the overall edge over Sabatini. But I don't deny this is based on the weight I personally chose to give Sukova's doubles career when comparing the players. Were I to give Sukova's doubles career even a small fraction less value I would have then given my nod to Sabatini. It is awfully close for me.

Without question, it is only on the basis of Sukova's doubles success that this debate exists at all because obviously if only Sabatini's and Sukova's singles careers are to be taken into account Sabatini is miles ahead and this ceases to be something that even warrants a debate. Only a fool or someone of enourmous bias would even attempt to argue Sabatini didn't have the better singles career.

moby
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:06 PM
Sabatini has the edge, but I wouldn't say she was much better. Sukova still reached more grand slam finals than Sabatini.Sabatini reached 18 GS semis to Sukova's, what, 7? She also won 2 YECs and a slew of Tier 1s. It's Sabatini by a landslide singles career wise.

And it's also Sabatini for the poll, because the singles career is just that much more important than the doubles career.

AnDrEi.b
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:08 PM
Sabatini

turtle-rn
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:20 PM
Sukova. 1,88m (6'2 I think).

She also had a more enjoyable game when she was on.

Matt01
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:27 PM
In Singles, Sabatini.
In Doubles, Sukova,
Overall, Sukova.

Olórin
Jun 9th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Sabatini, easily.

Freakan
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:31 PM
Sabatini because she's hot.

AdeyC
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:28 PM
Sukova

Lucemferre
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:30 PM
In Singles, Sabatini.
In Doubles, Sukova,
Overall, Sukova.

Glad you confimed that you think Venus is greater than henin.

silyaunWILLIAMS
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:33 PM
How many of these damn polls is there going to be?

OsloErik
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Even without her slam title, Sabatini had the better career, was the greater player, in singles.

John.
Jun 9th, 2010, 05:38 PM
Sabatini

Matt01
Jun 9th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Glad you confimed that you think Venus is greater than henin.


Venus and Henin have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

Helen Lawson
Jun 9th, 2010, 07:07 PM
Conchita

spencercarlos
Jun 9th, 2010, 08:09 PM
Venus and Henin have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
Really how so? :tape:

Henin > Venus in singles (by a slim margin)

Venus>>>>> Henin in doubles (by an even larger margin that Sukova has over Sabatini)

Overall Venus ??? :devil:

Same analogy? Oh wait double standards to serve your case better :lol:


:wavey:

Matt01
Jun 9th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Really how so? :tape:


Because this thread is about Sabatini and Sukova? :wavey:

Of course if you take both singles and doubles, then Venus has more accomplishments then Justine. I can admit that since I have no double standards. :wavey:

Gaby = GOAT :hug:

Talula
Jun 9th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Both were exceptional for their time in different ways.

Sombrerero loco
Jun 9th, 2010, 09:31 PM
sukova played great, sabatini was boring :(

omoruyi
Jun 10th, 2010, 12:52 AM
there were lots of 1-hand-b/hands in the 80s & '90s ~ lol at the Venus /henin comparison :laugh:

meteor
Jun 10th, 2010, 01:23 AM
if you really have to ask, then sabatini.