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View Full Version : Who is Greater? Elena Dementieva or Francesca Schiavone?


Pops Maellard
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:50 AM
Yep, I went there. :p

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:52 AM
A simple yes or no to my post in the other thread would've sufficed you know. :p

Pops Maellard
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:56 AM
A simple yes or no to my post in the other thread would've sufficed you know. :p
Yeah but as Caratancheva would attest to, I can't resist making a poll when I can. :lol:

cellophane
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Lena

miffedmax
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:58 AM
Lena--and for some reason I feel like going beyond my usual knee-jerk response--was rated ahead of other, more distinguished one-slam wonders and slamless #1s than Fran on most list of the best WTA players of the decade, including Ivanovic, Myskina, Safina, Jankovic etc., all of whom rank ahead of Fran even on the one-slam wonder list.

Look, no one would love to see Lena on that one-slam wonder list more than I would (well, except maybe Mommy Vera) but with all do respect to Fran she will have to back this up with a pretty strong kick down the stretch of her career to be considered a better player than many of her slamless contemporaries.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:01 AM
Lena--and for some reason I feel like going beyond my usual knee-jerk response--was rated ahead of other, more distinguished one-slam wonders and slamless #1s than Fran on most list of the best WTA players of the decade, including Ivanovic, Myskina, Safina, Jankovic etc., all of whom rank ahead of Fran even on the one-slam wonder list.

Look, no one would love to see Lena on that one-slam wonder list more than I would (well, except maybe Mommy Vera) but with all do respect to Fran she will have to back this up with a pretty strong kick down the stretch of her career to be considered a better player than many of her slamless contemporaries.

Agreed. Assuming Schiavone now returns to her usual standards, Dementieva will be remembered as the infinitely more successful player, even if she never gets that Slam.

Orbis
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:06 AM
Dementieva of course. Though she could learn a thing or two from Schiavone about how to play in a grand slam final.

Serenus Christ
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:18 AM
I wouldn't be suprised if Lena won Wimbledon.

Josh.
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:36 AM
Despite having a Grand Slam, I'd much rather have Elena's career.

LudwigDvorak
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:41 AM
Fran can kim1 Lenablw all she wants now. bty&bst

I'll go with Graf.

tievae
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:48 AM
Dementieva for sure.

Amalgamate
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:03 AM
Lena :hug:

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:11 AM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams

Amalgamate
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:18 AM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams

This logic is so :expletive: :rolleyes:

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:20 AM
This logic is so :expletive: :rolleyes:

It is so.... correct?

Potato
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:22 AM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams

Lena.

14 million dollars in prize money >>>>>>>>>>>> 4 million dollars in prize money

16 titles >>>>>>> 4 titles

Lena's had the more overall successful career.

ys
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:24 AM
Lets have a poll about which of the two you'd rather have as your girlfriend.. That's gonna be tough choice..

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:24 AM
Lena.

14 million dollars in prize money >>>>>>>>>>>> 4 million dollars in prize money

16 titles >>>>>>> 4 titles

Lena's had the more overall successful career.

You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.

claypova
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:32 AM
lena is, obviously

AnomyBC
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:35 AM
You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.

Of course the highest achievement in tennis is a grand slam title, but that doesn't mean other titles and achievements have no value. Elena has been one of the top players in the sport for about 10 years now and she also won gold at the Olympics. That counts for a lot more in my mind than one fluke slam win.

Potato
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:38 AM
You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.

The thing is Franny has NOTHING in her resume other than that slam. Serena has a ridiculous number of slams to back her GOAT status up. Elena has a substantial amount of titles and she has consistently stayed in the top 10. Before this GS, Fran was basically a consistent top 30 player. The slams are significant in counting someone's greatness, but it doesn't mean that other accomplishments do not matter.

delicatecutter
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:41 AM
This thread is premature. :lol: I voted for Franci cause I like her more. She is undoubtedly not greater than Lena, at least not yet, but she put it together when it counted. I still can't believe Lena lost that USO F. I could understand losing to Myskina for many reasons, but no way she should have lost to Sveta. Ever.

delicatecutter
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:43 AM
The thing is Franny has NOTHING in her resume other than that slam. Serena has a ridiculous number of slams to back her GOAT status up. Elena has a substantial amount of titles and she has consistently stayed in the top 10. Before this GS, Fran was basically a consistent top 30 player. The slams are significant in counting someone's greatness, but it doesn't mean that other accomplishments do not matter.

Serena has NOTHING in her resume to put her in goat running with Graf, Navratilova, or Evert. NOTHING. The fact that any of her stans think so is baffling to me, and I'm a huge Serena fan.

Potato
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:47 AM
Serena has NOTHING in her resume to put her in goat running with Graf, Navratilova, or Evert. NOTHING. The fact that any of her stans think so is baffling to me, and I'm a huge Serena fan.

I meant as the GOAT of this generation. I don't think anyone puts her in the same league as those 3.

AnomyBC
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:53 AM
Serena has NOTHING in her resume to put her in goat running with Graf, Navratilova, or Evert. NOTHING. The fact that any of her stans think so is baffling to me, and I'm a huge Serena fan.

This is true. Serena is at least 5 or 6 slams away from being in that conversation and she'd probably need 11 more to make it official.

PS - What's a stan?

Pops Maellard
Jun 7th, 2010, 04:04 AM
This thread is premature. :lol: I voted for Franci cause I like her more. She is undoubtedly not greater than Lena, at least not yet, but she put it together when it counted. I still can't believe Lena lost that USO F. I could understand losing to Myskina for many reasons, but no way she should have lost to Sveta. Ever.
Elena was injured in USO final. :( Did you SEE the bandage on her leg?! :shout:

:p

delicatecutter
Jun 7th, 2010, 04:06 AM
I meant as the GOAT of this generation. I don't think anyone puts her in the same league as those 3.

I wouldn't think so either, but I believe there is a thread on the first page of GM discussing just that. :unsure:

This is true. Serena is at least 5 or 6 slams away from being in that conversation and she'd probably need 11 more to make it official.

PS - What's a stan?

Obsessed fans. Basically Stalker fan.

fridayeggs
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:08 AM
schiavone is a champion.
dementieva is a choker.

mdterp01
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:23 AM
Who is the better player? Elena

Whose career would I have if both were to retire tomorrow? Schiavone's. Even though Elena got Olympic gold, I'd rather have a major.

spiritedenergy
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:28 AM
slam vs no slam, that's all that matters (or what matters most):shrug: so fran:worship:

mdterp01
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:35 AM
I'd rather be a one slam wonder than a player who played at a pretty good level and never broke through to win one. Winning a major is the ultimate achievement in this sport.

Serenita
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:47 AM
Fran

1 slam >>>>>>>>> 0 slam.

gazeboes2004
Jun 7th, 2010, 05:50 AM
Yup I'd rather have a slam - Who cares about an Olympic Gold in tennis. Maybe in gymnastics or figure skating.

sorceress
Jun 7th, 2010, 06:06 AM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams
Sadly, yes.
This logic is so :expletive: :rolleyes:
But it's pretty much how everyone views sport.
If your team is a constant finals (playoffs) contender but fails to win the big one, there's always doubts, rather than a team that gets a one off chance and takes it by the scruff of the neck and wins a championship.
Look at the Saints Vs Bills.

This is a bit of a cruel thread though:hysteric:

Shvedbarilescu
Jun 7th, 2010, 07:06 AM
This thread is premature. :lol: I voted for Franci cause I like her more. She is undoubtedly not greater than Lena, at least not yet, but she put it together when it counted. I still can't believe Lena lost that USO F. I could understand losing to Myskina for many reasons, but no way she should have lost to Sveta. Ever.

I'm with delicatcutter here. It's an apple and oranges thing. And when you have an apple and oranges thing you simply select the one you like the most. For me that is Franny. I find her game far more enjoyable to watch as I see a much greater assortment of strokes and much more imagination. I also really like that ultra expressive Italian personality she has. And yes I do admire the magnificent way Fran did seize her Grand Slam opportunity fearlessly and with gusto. This does rather starkly contrast with how Elena has coped with her Slam opportunities.

But having said all that, I still can't quite defend the 1 Slam >>> no Slam argument. Tennis is about way more than just these four tournaments a year; it is about how you compete week in and week out and in that respect Elena has undeniably been more successful, although I would add that both players have handled their careers with great dignity and professionalism. Yes I would prefer to finish my tennis career with one slam rather than no slams but probably even more I would prefer to finish my career with 14 million rather than 4 million. 10 million dollars is no small potatos, besides being quite nice to have around it is the reflection of a lot of consistant and outstanding success.

One other (perhaps crazy) thing I will add however. After Francesca won her RG she went up into the crowd to join her friends. And there she received probably the biggest and best group hug I have even seen. Anyone who witnessed this could tell this is an outgoing gregarious woman who is widely loved by all those who know her. And that kind of success is something not money or titles can buy.

AnywhereButHome
Jun 7th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Schiavone .

AnywhereButHome
Jun 7th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Fran

1 slam >>>>>>>>> 0 slam.

:yeah:

FedererBulgaria
Jun 7th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Elena!!!


PS Look at all tennis gamesssssssss :D:D:D

Declan
Jun 7th, 2010, 07:53 AM
Of course Dementieva is a better player, by far. Several years in the Top 10 is a great achievement. But Slams are everything, and Schiavone's Roland Garros win obviously trumps Dementieva's best achievements.

FedererBulgaria
Jun 7th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Cmon ,Elena is a classic player,very popular and everybody knows her PLUS people who dont like tennis!

Apoleb
Jun 7th, 2010, 08:27 AM
It's borderline retarded to vote for Schiavone on this one, even as a Demented "hater." The 1>0 slam logic isn't very strong. As if getting 7 wins in succession against not exactly stellar opposition and pretty much doing nothing else beats Dementieva's career.

Setsuna.
Jun 7th, 2010, 08:32 AM
Lena by far.

flyingmachine
Jun 7th, 2010, 08:52 AM
As player Elena is far better player than Fran. In fact Elena is the most consistent player at the tour and 14 million vs 4 million prize money shows who wins the most matches. However in tennis history Grand Slam counts for everything and also for future reference when GS count the most for tennis player than anything else so I afraid Frans wins on that.

LostGlory
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Whoever finds the way and grabs the chance at winning a Grand Slam title is always greater than anyone else......every few years or so often some one like this has a break when least expected, the last was Iva Majoli and now it Francessca well done, she played to win.....

Graf~Dokic
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:22 AM
Dementieva for sure.

2 slam finals + multiple SF and QF >>> 1 slam victory

And Dementieva has the higher carreer high ranking.

moby
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Dementieva is greater. She trumps Schiavone in every category but the Slam win.
This is like asking if Anastasia Myskina is a greater clay court player than Conchita Martinez or Gabriela Sabatini.

As for whose career I'd rather have... that's tough because I like the Slam, but I'm not sure a Slam is worth US$8,000,000, even after taxes.

Career Prize Money
Elena Dementieva: US$13,357,139
Francesca Schiavone: US$4,900,817

Elwin.
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Lena.

Misa&andylover
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:30 AM
Elena

Kworb
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:36 AM
For sure Elena Dementieva.

Slamniacki
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:36 AM
Fran Height: 5' 5 1/2" (1.66 m)

Elena Height: 5' 11" (1.80 m)


Elena is greater :nerner:

Direwolf
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:39 AM
this is superbad

i have no choice but
Fran

AnDrEi.b
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:51 AM
Obviously Elena

mr_burns
Jun 7th, 2010, 09:55 AM
without any doubts lena

if fran does not back up this, she will always be an example for a one slam wonder (not even another sf)

Dave.
Jun 7th, 2010, 10:29 AM
You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.

You don't measure who is greater solely by slam count either, which is the only reason to vote for Schiavone.

Serena is near the GOAT conversation? :scratch:

Daniel
Jun 7th, 2010, 10:40 AM
Elena for sure

Bronx19
Jun 7th, 2010, 10:55 AM
Schiavone has game. Elena has such a simple game, its staggering to think it breaks down on a regular basis.

Schiavone also has spirit, heart and isnt a choker.

ce
Jun 7th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Fran

ptitnavet
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:08 AM
Dementieva for sure.

2 slam finals + multiple SF and QF >>> 1 slam victory

And Dementieva has the higher carreer high ranking.

This.
Elena, Franny has a slam but what had she done in GS except that?

Elena reaches all the SF in the four GS, won an Olympic gold medal,her best ranking is 3, 3QF, 7SF and 2 F in GS. And how many weeks she was(is) in the top 10?

MegaDethly
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:08 AM
Elena is the better player of course, everything backs that up excpet the elusive slam.

However, Fran is the player that I'd rather young players aspired to be like. She is someone who has utilised her talents to the max and has taken the game seriously enough to work out ways to win given what gifts she has been given. For her hard work and consistancy she has finally been rewarded with a slam and her's is a perfect example to give young players. Elena needs to take a page out of Schiavone's book because in comparison Elena is a failure. Plain and simple: a choker, an underacheiver, a poor prioritiser and terribly, terribly inconsistent and often clueless on the court.

I will always, ALWAYS hold Francesca Shiovone is a much higher regard that Elena Dementieva.

FFS
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:34 AM
This.
Elena, Franny has a slam but what had she done in GS except that?

Elena reaches all the SF in the four GS, won an Olympic gold medal,her best ranking is 3, 3QF, 7SF and 2 F in GS. And how many weeks she was(is) in the top 10?

More than 300 weeks.
More than 500 matches won
since 2000 she played 9 WTA Championships (she missed only 2007 where she was one of the alternate)

debby
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:36 AM
Dementieva for sure.

2 slam finals + multiple SF and QF >>> 1 slam victory

And Dementieva has the higher carreer high ranking.

So losses are stronger than a win? :tape:

Russianboy
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:43 AM
without ANY doubt, lena. one slam is not enough to top what lena has achieved + gold medal olympics. fran is still miles away from lena.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 11:43 AM
I wouldn't think so either, but I believe there is a thread on the first page of GM discussing just that. :unsure:



Obsessed fans. Basically Stalker fan.
You are right and you are wrong at the same time. Stan is an obsessed fan, but it is not short for stalker fan. Eminem had a song about an obsessed fan called Stan and that is where the name came from.

Betten
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:00 PM
Dementieva, obviously, and I don't even like her. Having a good fortnight isn't up to par with almost a decade of competing and performing at the highest level. She's had multiple wins against all recent number one players (since 2000) and has been a fixture in the top 10 for years. 16 WTA titles, two Olympic medals (including gold) and a YEC title (in doubles) just add to that. Other than her GS title, Schiavone has nothing over Dementieva.

LCS
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:01 PM
You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.

I believe you wanted to say: The slams are ARGUABLY the highest achievement...' Your posts are just full of retardness, sorry.

As player Elena is far better player than Fran. In fact Elena is the most consistent player at the tour and 14 million vs 4 million prize money shows who wins the most matches. However in tennis history Grand Slam counts for everything and also for future reference when GS count the most for tennis player than anything else so I afraid Frans wins on that.

Like we all remember some of those players who won RG and the AO years back and never did anything else. Depleted fields, that's the two words you should be looking for.

Roland Garros 2010 only escaped Elena's resumé because she was severely injured. :wavey:

LCS
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:04 PM
Schiavone has game. Elena has such a simple game, its staggering to think it breaks down on a regular basis.

Schiavone also has spirit, heart and isnt a choker.

Because Fran's 21462562393762692 lost finals before finally winning a title are truly the stuff who makes someone not a choker. :)

debby
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Because Fran's 21462562393762692 lost finals before finally winning a title are truly the stuff who makes someone not a choker. :)

It was not in a Slam final, so no it doesn't matter.

.TheGroke.
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:21 PM
Elena of course. Stats speaks for itself, without a GS win or not, she's been more constant over the years. And to be honest, in my books olympic gold is a bit more valuable. :shrug:

Julian.
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:23 PM
I love Elena but I think Francesca is a greater player in history book now with a slam win.

Mrs. Dimitrova
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:24 PM
I know Fran has a GS and all, but at this point I would much prefer to have Elena's career. She has achieved much more. :shrug:

Lucemferre
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Dementieva no contest.Schiavone's fluke major doesn't change it.

JJ Expres
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:35 PM
olympic gold=grand slam
so elena by far....

edificio
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Slam is greater than gold, even with Dementieva's career, Fran's got the Slam now.

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:42 PM
:haha: at some of the posts here. Dementieva will be forgotten in time.. or known as a bridesmaid or for her failures as a player. Fran even if she retires today will forever be in history. She, for all her shortcomings, has achieved something Elena has failed to do.

goldenlox
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:45 PM
I dont see Dementieva being forgotten. She has been in the top 10 for too long. 9 slam semis, 2 finals, Super Tier I finals, Olympic Gold final. Even casual tennis fans know her name. She has been in a lot of big matches against the biggest names

Fran could be like Majoli, and only extreme tennis fans who followed in that era know who she was.

JJ Expres
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Slam is greater than gold, even with Dementieva's career, Fran's got the Slam now.

who said that?few people on this board?and what about olympic history?
more people care about OG than GR.

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:48 PM
I dont see Dementieva being forgotten. She has been in the top 10 for too long. 9 slam semis, 2 finals, Super Tier I finals, Olympic Gold final. Even casual tennis fans know her name. She has been in a lot of big matches against the biggest names

Fran could be like Majoli, and only extreme tennis fans who followed in that era know who she was.

Do you remember top 10 fixtures from the 80s that didn't win any slams? In 10-20 years, she'll be eventually forgotten.
Greats are remembered.. bridesmaids and sidekicks are not.

And I said even if Fran is forgotten, her name will be in record books as slam winner.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:49 PM
I wouldn't think so either, but I believe there is a thread on the first page of GM discussing just that. :unsure:



Obsessed fans. Basically Stalker fan.


you mean a thread started by a serena hater??? for a big serena fan one would think it'd be obvious to you who are her "stans" and the one who thinks serena shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as jh as per his 1st post/thread on this forum

anywho...pretty difficult now that fran has won a slam...get back to me in a few to see how fran backs up this win

goldenlox
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:50 PM
You remember names that are in a lot of big matches. The Barbara Jordans, no one remembers

Lucemferre
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:54 PM
I dont see Dementieva being forgotten. She has been in the top 10 for too long. 9 slam semis, 2 finals, Super Tier I finals, Olympic Gold final. Even casual tennis fans know her name. She has been in a lot of big matches against the biggest names

Fran could be like Majoli, and only extreme tennis fans who followed in that era know who she was.

Exactly. Schiavone will be respected just as much as Majoli.Dementieva is a much better player withmuch more consistent career.Schiavone will get kicked out of top 10 next year.Her win is nothing but a fluke and doesn't make her greater than dementieva. No way.

Dementinator
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Not even remotely close, Lena by far at this point.
Winning one Major and fuck all else by the age of 30 is NOT a great career.
I am so glad Fran won this final and she deserved it, its something she can be very proud of indeed, but she will have to back it up a lot in the limted time she has left to Eclipse Lena who is also still going and I wouldnt write her of finally getting a slam either.

Unless Fran goes on the rampage for the next few months, good as her achievment is, its not as good as 10 plus years at the top, many titles and a GS gold which IS a big thing to most players, maybe not Americans, but to the rest of the world it is.

I am not sure Fran would have even been in the final this had the BGO not thrown a rod and packed it in, a one legged Lena was giving her plenty of trouble in the first set, imagine what a fully fit one would have done.

SO, I am VERY pleased for Fran and its something she can look back on for years, but I think most would rather have the Lenas career, and dont write HER off for winning a slam either.

DS.Fan.
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:56 PM
Of course is Lena D..this thread:help:

_marial_
Jun 7th, 2010, 12:59 PM
My god what a question... Of course Lena D. and I don't even like her, what she has achieved is more worth than this one lucky GS title ;)

Matt01
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:00 PM
:haha: at some of the posts here. Dementieva will be forgotten in time.. or known as a bridesmaid or for her failures as a player. Fran even if she retires today will forever be in history. She, for all her shortcomings, has achieved something Elena has failed to do.


Demented won't be forgotten because of her win at the Olympics and her two dismal performances in her 2 Slam finals.

My answer:

Dementieva. But as sooon as Fran makes it to another Slam final, I'll vote for her.

hdfb
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Francesca can easily be the Gaston Gaudio or Albert Costa of WTA. She needs to make another slam final or being a consistent top 8 player and knocking out the top seeds in big matches.

For now it's Dementieva.

They are both almost 30 though. ;)

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:06 PM
Demented won't be forgotten because of her win at the Olympics and her two dismal performances in her 2 Slam finals.

My answer:

Dementieva. But as sooon as Fran makes it to another Slam final, I'll vote for her.

Possibly.. but you don't really remember any player similar to her from the 80s or early 90s, right?

I would rather have won a slam even if it was the only career win of my life than have Elena's credentials. It's like winning an NBA championship or the world cup etc

thrust
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Overall career, Elena. Still, Francesca's name will always be seen on the list of FO winners. For statistic tennis freaks, like me, that is very important and impressive. But then, Elena does have the Olympic Gold and both have Fed Cup wins.

Graf~Dokic
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:10 PM
So losses are stronger than a win? :tape:

Of course not. But Dementieva is one of the most consistent top players during the last decade, and consistency at a top level is better than one big victory beside several average results IMO.

Plus Dementieva has an Olympic gold medal, which is at least as good as one grand slam victory.

ptitnavet
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:11 PM
Do you remember top 10 fixtures from the 80s that didn't win any slams? In 10-20 years, she'll be eventually forgotten.
Greats are remembered.. bridesmaids and sidekicks are not.

And I said even if Fran is forgotten, her name will be in record books as slam winner.

So? Lena's name always be in record books as an Olympic winner.

miffedmax
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:11 PM
Do you remember top 10 fixtures from the 80s that didn't win any slams? In 10-20 years, she'll be eventually forgotten.
Greats are remembered.. bridesmaids and sidekicks are not.

And I said even if Fran is forgotten, her name will be in record books as slam winner.

And Elena's name will be in those same record books as an OG winner, and a two-time runner up.

Bassett-Seguso, Bunge, Sukova, Maleeva, Maleeva, Maleeva, Rinaldi, Fernandez, Kathy Jordan, Lori McNeil, Zina Garrison, Jaegar, Zverera and Kohde-Klisch, btw. (There all in the record book too, but I didn't look until after I made my list).

miffedmax
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:19 PM
Possibly.. but you don't really remember any player similar to her from the 80s or early 90s, right?

I would rather have won a slam even if it was the only career win of my life than have Elena's credentials. It's like winning an NBA championship or the world cup etc

Which is why she's regularly compared to Mary Jo Fernadez on this board. Nobody remembers her. Or a few dozen other players. And there are never any debates among fans about who's the best slamless player.

Let's put it this way. If both quite today, Lena would be in the mix for the title of "Best Player without a Slam." Fran wouldn't even remotely be in contention for "Best One-Slam Wonder." That actually says something about their relative careers.

Viktymise
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Greats are remembered.

And Schiavone's a great? :tape:

She'll be about as remembered as Iva Majoli, i.e a fluke.

Hian
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:38 PM
What a stupid poll.
Please accepte Francesca won, and live your life. I'm saying that as a great fan of Lena ;)

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:43 PM
Right now Dementieva. In ten year time both will be forgotten by casual fans.

Hian
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:46 PM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams

Wrong logic :tape:

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:46 PM
Which is why she's regularly compared to Mary Jo Fernadez on this board. Nobody remembers her. Or a few dozen other players. And there are never any debates among fans about who's the best slamless player.

Let's put it this way. If both quite today, Lena would be in the mix for the title of "Best Player without a Slam." Fran wouldn't even remotely be in contention for "Best One-Slam Wonder." That actually says something about their relative careers.

I didnt know anyone debated that about non-active players

ys
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:46 PM
Right now Dementieva. In ten year time both will be forgotten by casual fans.

Maybe. Unless they win more.
And for sure , both will stay major celebrities in their home countries, which, given the kind of countries, is good enough on its own. But at this point .. neither is going to Hall of Fame, and that's a real borderline where some memory stays or goes in tennis.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:48 PM
Elena has had a far better career, but in terms of historic achievement, I think Francesca Schiavonne is better. She is the first Italian woman to win a slam. I am sure in Italy they will be an arena or sporting venue with her name on it. She will alway be remembered as the first. When my grandkids are watching tennis, and another Italian is playing in a grandslam final, her name is always going to be mentioned.

Now if an OG is equal to a grandslam, then Elena has a serious lawsuit against the WTA. She did equal work and recieve a 1/3 the points.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:48 PM
Maybe. Unless they win more.
And for sure , both will stay major celebrities in their home countries, which, given the kind of countries, is good enough on its own. But at this point .. neither is going to Hall of Fame, and that's a real borderline where some memory stays or goes in tennis.

Agreed.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:58 PM
:haha: at some of the posts here. Dementieva will be forgotten in time.. or known as a bridesmaid or for her failures as a player. Fran even if she retires today will forever be in history. She, for all her shortcomings, has achieved something Elena has failed to do.

Marcelo Rios is more remembered than Albert Costa among tennis aficionados. :shrug: And I would say that, if you take Rios's #1 ranking out of the equation, Dementieva's actually achieved a lot more than him relatively... whereas Schiavone and Costa is a pretty close comparison I would say.

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Marcelo Rios is more remembered than Albert Costa among tennis aficionados. :shrug: And I would say that, if you take Rios's #1 ranking out of the equation, Dementieva's actually achieved a lot more than him relatively... whereas Schiavone and Costa is a pretty close comparison I would say.

Rios is an exception. He is remembered for his play (and shortcomings) than his accomplishments.
He was also remembered as one of the most talented players to step on the court (in the opinion of some)

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:03 PM
Marcelo Rios is more remembered than Albert Costa among tennis aficionados. :shrug: And I would say that, if you take Rios's #1 ranking out of the equation, Dementieva's actually achieved a lot more than him relatively... whereas Schiavone and Costa is a pretty close comparison I would say.

Marcelo Rios is "infamous" and that is why he is remembered. He is a statistical anomoly and goes against the grain. Take away his number 1 ranking and he would not even be remembered. Which is what a lot of folks are arguing will happen to Lena in 10 yrs time.

miffedmax
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I didnt know anyone debated that about non-active players

It's been debated around here with a mix of active and nonactive players multiple times.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:07 PM
Take away his number 1 ranking and he would not even be remembered.

Wow, shows how little you know about men's tennis.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:09 PM
Marcelo Rios is "infamous" and that is why he is remembered. He is a statistical anomoly and goes against the grain. Take away his number 1 ranking and he would not even be remembered.

This.
Personally I remember him for two things, 1) being the only slamless No.1 on the ATP, 2) insulting Seles at one of the combined tournaments.

The Witch-king
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:10 PM
Fran.

1 slam>>>>>>>>>>>>0 slams

Agreed. Assuming Schiavone now returns to her usual standards, Dementieva will be remembered as the infinitely more successful player, even if she never gets that Slam.

Fran has won more matches in the LAST FIVE GRAND SLAMS than Elena
and she never bombed in a GS final
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6AhGhnS381g/StqeLRcK7AI/AAAAAAAAAHo/olOs22S6PZk/Gifs%20e%20imagens%20engra%C3%A7adas%20(46).gif

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:12 PM
This.
Personally I remember him for two things, 1) being the only slamless No.1 on the ATP, 2) insulting Seles at one of the combined tournaments.

Actually, many big fans of men's tennis consider Rios to be the best player never to have won a Slam - both in terms of raw talent (as AcesHigh said) and in terms of accomplishments (he won LOADS of Masters titles).

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:13 PM
Fran has won more matches in the LAST FIVE GRAND SLAMS than Elena
and she never bombed in a GS final
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6AhGhnS381g/StqeLRcK7AI/AAAAAAAAAHo/olOs22S6PZk/Gifs%20e%20imagens%20engra%C3%A7adas%20(46).gif

Because Grand Slams are all that matter. :)

miffedmax
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Marcelo Rios is "infamous" and that is why he is remembered. He is a statistical anomoly and goes against the grain. Take away his number 1 ranking and he would not even be remembered. Which is what a lot of folks are arguing will happen to Lena in 10 yrs time.

Most 1-slam wonders won't be remembered, either. People keep saying that Fran will be "in the record books" as a slam winner, but guess what? They keep records of Olympic winners and a history of the rankings in those exact same record books, too.

Neither one of them is going to be remembered like Serena or Justine is.

Fact.

But in any other profession, would you hire someone who was successful once, but on a big stage, or the one who was successful over and over again for a longer period of time? The idea that one tournament = a career is hogwash.

In 10 years time, the only women players from this era 90% of fans will remember will be the Williams sisters, Justine and maybe Sharapova.

Given that, the extra $9 million, a GM and a fountain looks pretty good.

The Witch-king
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:18 PM
Because Grand Slams are all that matter. :)

duh
http://i48.tinypic.com/zupc8l.gif
honestly what does Lena have in her career that Franny would want

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:19 PM
Actually, many big fans of men's tennis consider Rios to be the best player never to have won a Slam - both in terms of raw talent (as AcesHigh said) and in terms of accomplishments (he won LOADS of Masters titles).

Many big fans of men's tennis consider Santoro a good player, so what?
Rios was helpless on faster surfaces, so much for "one of the most talented players ever".

P.S.
5 is not exactly LOADS.

AcesHigh
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Many big fans of men's tennis consider Santoro a good player, so what?
Rios was helpless on faster surfaces, so much for "one of the most talented players ever".

P.S.
5 is not exactly LOADS.

C'mon :lol: we both know there is no comparison of Santoro and Rios. Even if Rios's talent is overrated, he is regarded by many to have been extremely talented.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:28 PM
Many big fans of men's tennis consider Santoro a good player, so what?
Rios was helpless on faster surfaces, so much for "one of the most talented players ever".

P.S.
5 is not exactly LOADS.

He won numerous titles on fast hard courts and made the QFs at the US Open. He never did anything of substance on grass admittedly.

And, while many people have a lot of affection for Santoro, I don't know of anyone who seriously thinks he should've won a Slam.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:28 PM
Wow, shows how little you know about men's tennis.

More than you......More than you.

I don't go for the talent argument. To me true talent is being able to perform when it matters. Something Marcelo was not very good at.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:31 PM
More than you......More than you.

I don't go for the talent argument. To me true talent is being able to perform when it matters. Something Marcelo was not very good at.

It still shows how clearly little you know about men's tennis to say he'd be forgotten if it wasn't for his #1 ranking... his personality alone is enough for him to be remembered by most tennis fans, even if you disregard his talent/achievements.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:31 PM
You don't measure who is greater by money made or overall titles. Otherwise Serena would be nowhere near the GOAT conversation with the number of titles she's won.

The slams are the highest achievement in tennis and Fran has one... Elena has 0.
Winning a major might be the highest achievement, but it's not the only significant one.

Lena's been a top 5 player for YEARS, has reached 2 major finals, more US Open SF appearances from 2000-2009 than Serena ( :haha: ). Not to mention Fed Cup and Olympic Gold.

Anabelcroft
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:36 PM
Winning a major might be the highest achievement, but it's not the only significant one.

Lena's been a top 5 player for YEARS, has reached 2 major finals, more US Open SF appearances from 2000-2009 than Serena ( :haha: ). Not to mention Fed Cup and Olympic Gold.

And being for years now in a top ten means something...it's not like she appeared on scene with one very good season and the rest is...huh...she is consistent now for a decade already,that's why even now I give her the edge...

ys
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:36 PM
Many big fans of men's tennis consider Santoro a good player, so what?
Rios was helpless on faster surfaces, so much for "one of the most talented players ever".

P.S.
5 is not exactly LOADS.


All Rios has is his odd GS final and #1. Other that that even Davydenko has a better career. Much better.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:37 PM
It still shows how clearly little you know about men's tennis to say he'd be forgotten if it wasn't for his #1 ranking... his personality alone is enough for him to be remembered by most tennis fans, even if you disregard his talent/achievements.
Personality? He was a sour puss on court. If you want to talk about talented South Americans then Gustavo Kuerten is the man. He also performed well on the biggest stages like the Tour Championships and Majors.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:39 PM
He won numerous titles on fast hard courts

Indian Wells and Miami are not fast hardcourts and Kuala Lumpur and Singapore don't count for real titles. I'll give you the Grand Slam Cup exho though.

and made the QFs at the US Open.

Yes, ONCE. By defeating another fast surface monster Bruguera.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:39 PM
All Rios has is his odd GS final and #1. Other that that even Davydenko has a better career. Much better.

I personaly give a slight edge to Davydenko too (in terms of achievements, not actual talent), and Nalbandian as well, but there's no denying that many fans consider Rios to be a near-great. It's certainly rubbish to say he's ONLY rememered because he was a Slamless #1.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:42 PM
I personaly give a slight edge to Davydenko too (in terms of achievements, not actual talent), but there's no denying that many fans consider Rios to be a near-great. It's certainly rubbish to say he's ONLY rememered because he was a Slamless #1.

This is all rubbish. What people consider you does not really matter. At the end of the day, you are only as good as your records say you are.

dsanders06
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:46 PM
This is all rubbish. What people consider you does not really matter. At the end of the day, you are only as good as your records say you are.

And the records say that Rios was a Slam finalist, 5-times Masters winner and had one of the highest title hauls of the 90s... not worthless achievements no matter what you might personally think.

delicatecutter
Jun 7th, 2010, 02:53 PM
And the records say that Rios was a Slam finalist, 5-times Masters winner and had one of the highest title hauls of the 90s... not worthless achievements no matter what you might personally think.

Don't forget he was sexy as hell. :drool:

Matt01
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:31 PM
In 10 years time, the only women players from this era 90% of fans will remember will be the Williams sisters, Justine and maybe Sharapova.


:bs: I don't know what stupid "fans" you are talking about.

Matt01
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:32 PM
Don't forget he was sexy as hell. :drool:


His game was sexy, too. :drool:

brickhousesupporter
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:38 PM
And the records say that Rios was a Slam finalist, 5-times Masters winner and had one of the highest title hauls of the 90s... not worthless achievements no matter what you might personally think.
I have no problems with Rios, I think he was a very good player and I liked his game, but his record does not equal the hype that he is given sometimes.

ys
Jun 7th, 2010, 03:48 PM
And the records say that Rios was a Slam finalist, 5-times Masters winner and had one of the highest title hauls of the 90s... not worthless achievements no matter what you might personally think.

He also won a numerous Lemons and tanked numerous matches to Kafelnikov because he hated communists. :lol:

Lucemferre
Jun 7th, 2010, 04:00 PM
People who say schiavone is greater than Dementieva are dumb plain and simple.If their careers were close then a major could be the tie breaker but mediocre schiavone is no where near Dementieva.

Andy_
Jun 7th, 2010, 04:23 PM
It would appear to me that, even with this brand new Slam title under Francesca's belt, Elena's career thus far has been one of consistency at the top of the game, which Francesca's hasn't quite had. In my view, that puts her ahead of the Italian, as of right now.

Elena has been consistently ranked among the top ten players for years, whereas Francesca's only just debuted there. Sure, if she were to top her Roland Garros win with some other outstanding result in the next year or so, the balance might change in her favour...

Unfortunately, Elena's fantastic groundstrokes and very good movement on court have always been coupled with a sub-par serve, which has made her shaky, at times, and prone to being attacked by the hardest hitters. It has always struck me how, over so many years at the top of the game, she has never really managed to make a major improvement in that area. To me that is the biggest flaw of her career, much more so than the lack of a Slam title.

young_gunner913
Jun 7th, 2010, 04:29 PM
Fransexa. :hearts:

BWAAAAAAA-HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jun 8th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Francesca can easily be the Gaston Gaudio or Albert Costa of WTA. She needs to make another slam final or being a consistent top 8 player and knocking out the top seeds in big matches.
;)

Oh , please . Albert Costa was a helluva tennis player unlike Schiavone , who's less than ordinaary in my eyes .

In addition Costa remainded during his career as one the best claycourt players , unlike Schiavone

Bad comparison ... 12 titles (1 GS , 1 MS) vs 4

karin1492
Jun 8th, 2010, 06:38 AM
If you asked any player which would they would rather have a Grand Slam title or dozens of titles they would tell you a single Grand Slam any day of the week. It's a silly argument. Schiavone has something that Dementieva likely will never have and that's a Grand Slam title.

FFS
Jun 8th, 2010, 12:26 PM
If you asked any player which would they would rather have a Grand Slam title or dozens of titles they would tell you a single Grand Slam any day of the week. It's a silly argument. Schiavone has something that Dementieva likely will never have and that's a Grand Slam title.
Yes, she has a GS title. But this doens't mean she is Greater.

Don't mix the meaning of Grater with winning a GS title.
As someone already say, if two players has similar career then a GS title makes difference.
Until that moment, there is nothing to compare. Dementieva is greater than Schiavone.

MaBaker
Jun 8th, 2010, 12:29 PM
Elena > two lucky weeks.

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 12:39 PM
If you asked any player which would they would rather have a Grand Slam title or dozens of titles they would tell you a single Grand Slam any day of the week. It's a silly argument. Schiavone has something that Dementieva likely will never have and that's a Grand Slam title.

A bit of a silly statement in a thread about probably the most famous player on the tour who does not consider the slams the most coveted title. And while you and I may not agree with her, I suspect there are a number of Russian and Chinese players (in particular) who would.

SAEKeithSerena
Jun 8th, 2010, 03:58 PM
i'd rather retire with a slam then have a high world number 3 ranking and an Olympic Gold. So Francesca earns this one.

kman
Jun 8th, 2010, 06:51 PM
Obsessed fans. Basically Stalker fan.

"Based on the central character in the Eminem song of the same name, a "stan" is an overzealous maniacal fan for any celebrity or athlete."

Pretty sure that's the real origin.

Then someone came up with the "stalker fan" thing afterwards.

dsanders06
Jun 8th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Lol at 64 people voting Schiavone.

kman
Jun 8th, 2010, 06:54 PM
i'd rather retire with a slam then have a high world number 3 ranking and an Olympic Gold. So Francesca earns this one.

Hmm, maybe.

For a tennis player and tennis aficionados in general, a slam is of course the ultimate goal. But olympic gold means more to more people though.

Slutiana
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Lol at 64 people voting Schiavone.
65 now. :bigwave:
Hmm, maybe.

For a tennis player and tennis aficionados in general, a slam is of course the ultimate goal. But olympic gold means more to more people though.
Is that you, kman? :eek:

I agree with this, but the thing about tennis is that it isn't really a main olympic sport. The olympic gold is supposed to be the pinnacle of a sport, so the fact that it isn't the pinnacle of this sport decreases its value greatly IMO. It's like in football, they have the world cup, eurpean championships etc, an OG is a nice addition to the collection but it is by no means the be-all and end-all of that particular sport.

Wiggly
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:12 PM
It's about equal.

Schiavone has a Slam which is huge in tennis but Dementieva has a better carrer + and Olympic gold which is huger than huge in many countries.

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:28 PM
@ Slutiana
Football is a bad example because there is an age restriction on the olympic football team.
That's the reason it isn't worth as much as the World Cup.

DevilishAttitude
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:28 PM
The bitterness of some Dementieva fans here is just delicious. :drool:

:wavey: :devil:

In the end, the slams are what count. Schiavone has 1, Dementieva has none. Unless Elena wins 1, she will forever be remembered has the Russian with the bad serve, whilst Fran will always have & be remembered for her fairytale story of the veteran underdog winning a slam, that's just the way it is.. :)

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:31 PM
The bitterness of some Dementieva fans here is just delicious. :drool:

:wavey: :devil:

In the end, the slams are what count. Schiavone has 1, Dementieva has none. Unless Elena wins 1, she will forever be remembered has the Russian with the bad serve, whilst Fran will always have & be remembered for her fairytale story of the veteran underdog winning a slam, that's just the way it is.. :)

The question stated in this thread is 'who is greater', not 'who will be remembered for what'.

debby
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:32 PM
Lol at 64 people voting Schiavone.

Lol at Dsanders who thinks two slam finals are better than one slam title.

debby
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:32 PM
The question stated in this thread is 'who is greater', not 'who will be remembered for what'.

We remember people about their greatness ;)

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:39 PM
A GM is a lot more valued now than it was 20 years ago. An French Open title is a lot more valued now than it was 30 years ago. We really have no idea how "history" will jurge these accomplishments.

BluSthil
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:40 PM
If Schivone can capitalize on her RG win, time will tell who has the more complete resume !!!

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:41 PM
For me: Dementieva > Myskina > Schiavone

goldenlox
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:48 PM
I would much rather have an Olympic Gold medal than one major.
The active players who won Gold are Elena, Justine and Venus. Thats the whole list, going back to the 1996 Olympics

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Such narrow minded arguments:o:o:o Schiavone's shitty career isn't even close to dementieva's.This isn't a one major against two finals or one olympic gold argument. When you look at the big picture dementieva is ahead in almost every statistic. When there is such difference one major isn't enough to compensate for the big gap. If their careers were close then we could compare one major vs. two final or olympic medals but it's far from it.

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I would much rather have an Olympic Gold than one major.
The active players who won Gold are Elena, Justine and Venus. Thats the whole list.

That's because it is played once in 4 years :tape:

brickhousesupporter
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:50 PM
For me: Dementieva > Myskina > Schiavone
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af19/rudeboy77/Gifs/tumblr_kvv1scuz8e1qztxpko1_400.gif

AnnaK4ever is gonna get you.....

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:52 PM
Such narrow minded arguments:o:o:o Schiavone's shitty career isn't even close to dementieva's.This isn't a one major against two finals or one olympic gold argument. When you look at the big picture dementieva is ahead in almost every statistic. When there is such difference one major isn't enough to compensate for the big gap. If their careers were close then we could compare one major vs. two final or olympic medals but it's far from it.

Yes, but small numbers like 1 or 0 make the debate so much easier for the innumerate.

DevilishAttitude
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:53 PM
The question stated in this thread is 'who is greater', not 'who will be remembered for what'.

The fact is in the end, no matter who may be the "better" player when their playing their best, is that Schiavone has achieved something that Dementieva hasn't. Anyone who believes that having a Dementieva career would be more satisfying than having not won a slam are kidding themselves.

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:54 PM
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af19/rudeboy77/Gifs/tumblr_kvv1scuz8e1qztxpko1_400.gif

AnnaK4ever is gonna get you.....

1. I'm a boy :)
2. I'm not afraid of her :shrug:

brickhousesupporter
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:55 PM
That's because it is played once in 4 years :tape:
Correct....

I also have issue with people adding such importance to OG when the IOC did not even think tennis was worthy of being an olympic sport and took it off the program. It was not played from 1928–1984. When IOC decides they no longer want tennis as an olympic sport, Major tournaments will still be there. That is why I think they are way more important than an OG.

goldenlox
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:56 PM
Borg only played one AO his whole career.
The value of a major depends on the player.
Same with the value of being an Olympic Gold medal champion.

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:58 PM
The fact is in the end, no matter who may be the "better" player when their playing their best, is that Schiavone has achieved something that Dementieva hasn't. Anyone who believes that having a Dementieva career would be more satisfying than having not won a slam are kidding themselves.

Dementieva has achieved 100 things schiavone hasn't.She is greater, not even close.

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 07:58 PM
Schiavone has achieved something that Dementieva hasn't

This statement is true in both directions.

Anyone who believes that having a Dementieva career would be more satisfying than having not won a slam are kidding themselves.

This statement is illogical.

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:01 PM
Borg only played one AO his whole career.
The value of a major depends on the player.
Same with the value of being an Olympic Gold medal champion.

That's his problem.History doesn't care about player opinions. Not having ao or us open titles hurts Borg ver badly compared to other greats. Majors are greater than olympic gold in tennis.

DevilishAttitude
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Dementieva has achieved 100 things schiavone hasn't.She is greater, not even close.

Yet she has failed miserably to achieve the most important thing of all.. Something Fran grasped with both hands. :)

goldenlox
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:05 PM
A lot of players had majors they didnt care about.
Some used to skip Wimbledon. A lot of players would love to come home after the Olympics with a Gold medal

nat75
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Fran Height: 5' 5 1/2" (1.66 m)

Elena Height: 5' 11" (1.80 m)


Elena is greater :nerner:

:haha: :haha:

Sammo
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:06 PM
Schiavone was just lucky at RG, Dementieva is a hundred times better player

AcesHigh
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Schiavone was just lucky at RG, Dementieva is a hundred times better player

what a retarded thing to say. I guess you didnt see the final

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:09 PM
A lot of players had majors they didnt care about.
Some used to skip Wimbledon. A lot of players would love to come home after the Olympics with a Gold medal

Don't argue about this because you'll lose. Major is greater than olympics, case closed.

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:10 PM
Yet she has failed miserably to achieve the most important thing of all.. Something Fran grasped with both hands. :)

Doesn't mean she is greater which is the topic of this thread.

debby
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:12 PM
Schiavone was just lucky at RG, Dementieva is a hundred times better player

A bitter Sam fan, priceless :lol:

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:14 PM
Correct....

I also have issue with people adding such importance to OG when the IOC did not even think tennis was worthy of being an olympic sport and took it off the program. I was not played from 1928–1984. When IOC decides they no longer want tennis as an olympic sport, Major tournaments will still be there. That is why I think they are way more important than an OG.

Be that as it may, there's no doubt that players and many fans see the Olympic Gold in tennis as an increasingly valuable bit of hardware. Whatever traditionalists and the tour powers that be may want, I suspect it's seen as far more of a "5th Slam" than the YEC or any of the other big tour events. And, since about 2000, there's been a pretty decent field competing for it.

I don't share my dear Elena's opinion that it's better than a slam, or even equal. But it is a big deal, and it puts you in both the ITF and IOC record books--even if they pull your sport, your name is still in the books. (I also don't think they're going to drop tennis, because it's making green, which is far bigger than gold, silver or bronze where the IOC is concerned).

Slutiana
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:21 PM
what a retarded thing to say. I guess you didnt see the final
Oh, he did. He's just pissed because Stosur got owned. :lol:

dsanders06
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:30 PM
For me: Dementieva > Myskina > Schiavone

Agreed. I'd expand this to say Dementieva > Safina > Jankovic > Myskina > Schiavone.

Schiavone was just lucky at RG, Dementieva is a hundred times better player

I don't agree witht this. There's no such thing as luck in sport. You win seven matches at a major when all the best players have STARTED the tournament, you deserve the victory, no matter how many of those great players you beat.

But nevertheless, it's insane to suggest a great two weeks trumps 10 years consistently near the top of the sport. Dementieva was considered borderline top 10 in virtually all the "Best of the 00s" lists published by tennis publications (personally, I felt she was #11, slightly behind Hingis) - ahead of Myskina everytime. All credit to Schiavone for her Slam win, but if she wants to have a chance of being remembered as greater than Dementieva, she'll need to have atleast 4-5 years playing at top 10-level, make a few more Slam semis and win a couple of Tier Ones or a YEC or Olympic Gold.

brickhousesupporter
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Be that as it may, there's no doubt that players and many fans see the Olympic Gold in tennis as an increasingly valuable bit of hardware. Whatever traditionalists and the tour powers that be may want, I suspect it's seen as far more of a "5th Slam" than the YEC or any of the other big tour events. And, since about 2000, there's been a pretty decent field competing for it.

I don't share my dear Elena's opinion that it's better than a slam, or even equal. But it is a big deal, and it puts you in both the ITF and IOC record books--even if they pull your sport, your name is still in the books. (I also don't think they're going to drop tennis, because it's making green, which is far bigger than gold, silver or bronze where the IOC is concerned).

Max,

Lets say golf gets chosen as an olympic sport, do you think that most serious golfers would rather win OG than say the green jacket or claret jug. If you are serious about your sport then you know what is most important. Navratilova always said that those who don't want to win Wimbledon, say that is not important to them, because they know they can't win it.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:36 PM
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af19/rudeboy77/Gifs/tumblr_kvv1scuz8e1qztxpko1_400.gif

AnnaK4ever is gonna get you.....

Why should I?
First of all, ClijstersGOAT is on my ignore list. And besides, I do believe Dementieva surpassed Myskina with her Olympic gold. Lena has FAR better slam, tournament, top-10 records and has spent much more time among the game's elite than Myskina.

dsanders06
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:36 PM
Navratilova always said that those who don't want to win Wimbledon, say that is not important to them, because they know they can't win it.

Yeah, because it's not like Navratilova has a vested interest saying that. We all know what a clay-court specialist she was.

Lucemferre
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Agreed. I'd expand this to say Dementieva > Safina > Jankovic > Myskina > Schiavone.



I don't agree witht this. There's no such thing as luck in sport. You win seven matches at a major when all the best players have STARTED the tournament, you deserve the victory, no matter how many of those great players you beat.

But nevertheless, it's insane to suggest a great two weeks trumps 10 years consistently near the top of the sport. Dementieva was considered borderline top 10 in virtually all the "Best of the 00s" lists published by tennis publications (personally, I felt she was #11, slightly behind Hingis) - ahead of Myskina everytime. All credit to Schiavone for her Slam win, but if she wants to have a chance of being remembered as greater than Dementieva, she'll need to have atleast 4-5 years playing at top 10-level, make a few more Slam semis and win a couple of Tier Ones or a YEC or Olympic Gold.

Oh yes there is. Luck is a big factor in life not only in sports.

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Max,

Lets say golf gets chosen as an olympic sport, do you think that most serious golfers would rather win OG than say the green jacket or claret jug. If you are serious about your sport then you know what is most important. Navratilova always said that those who don't want to win Wimbledon, say that is not important to them, because they know they can't win it.

First, I'd have to stop puking.

Then I'd have to accept the idea of "serious golfer"--though I suppose there are people who take tiddlywinks seriously, too.

And I'll say it again--I don't personally consider the Olympics equal to a slam. However, I think to say--as some have, not you--that it doesn't matter at all, or that it is not even within shouting distance of a slam, is equally wrong.

It isn't a 5th slam, but it's pretty close to becoming a "Slam-Lite."

My suspicion is that if you asked most players what nonslam they wanted most, quite a few would go with hometown tournaments, but a huge percentage would say the Olympics. I bet that number is higher than it was in 2000. And I bet that number will be higher in 2012 than it is today. As I said in a previous post, a lot of the sports growth is in parts of the world where the Olympic tradition is much stronger than the tennis tradition, and they'll bring they're own perspectives to things, even as they absorb some of the games old values and traditions (see both the pros and cons of the raucous, soccer-style crowds at the AO and various Davis Cup venues for another example).

Introduce golf, or any other new "professional" sport to the Olympics, and I bet you'd see the same pattern.

And yeah, there's probably at least one blonde goofball on the PGA or LPGA tour, too.;):p Probably not as cute with bangs, though.

miffedmax
Jun 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Why should I?
First of all, ClijstersGOAT is on my ignore list. And besides, I do believe Dementieva surpassed Myskina with her Olympic gold. Lena has FAR better slam, tournament, top-10 records and has spent much more time among the game's elite than Myskina.

And bangs.

Willam
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Now if an OG is equal to a grandslam, then Elena has a serious lawsuit against the WTA. She did equal work and recieve a 1/3 the points.

That's because Olympic points can't be defended, can they?

Hey Here! Take 5000 points, but FYI, you're losing them all next year with no chance to get them back.

ys
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:05 PM
Why should I?
First of all, ClijstersGOAT is on my ignore list. And besides, I do believe Dementieva surpassed Myskina with her Olympic gold. Lena has FAR better slam, tournament, top-10 records and has spent much more time among the game's elite than Myskina.

Whatever else.
Myskina was the first Russian-born player to win a title, the first Russian to win Tier II, Tier I and , consequently, Grand Slam. She nearly single-handedly won the first ever Fed Cup for Russia. Lena may have a better overall record. But Nastya was the breakthrough, the pioneer.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Yes, Myskina was the pioneer but Dementieva has become the greater player.

Michael!
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Elena is one of the greatest active player, only thing she is missing is the GS title, beside that she is really great and achieved everything, can´t understand the people who voted for Schiavone but one GS title is obviously enough to become greater than a player like Dementieva :spit:

*JR*
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:16 PM
Lena--and for some reason I feel like going beyond my usual knee-jerk response--was rated ahead of other, more distinguished one-slam wonders and slamless #1s than Fran on most list of the best WTA players of the decade, including Ivanovic, Myskina, Safina, Jankovic etc., all of whom rank ahead of Fran even on the one-slam wonder list.

Then let me give a knee-jerk response: La Bella Alessandra told me to vote for the Italian. :p (Besides, a couple of years ago Francy sent me a nice email) :angel:

Caipirinha Guy
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Answering the question from the title - Healthy Dementieva is more efficient for sure, however she doesn't play as interesting tennis as Francesca.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:30 PM
I can't help posting another piece of shit stats, sorry!

Dementieva's combined record vs all players that were once ranked top-10 - 158-167
Schiavone's combined record vs all players that were once ranked top-10 - 70-120

Dementieva's combined record vs slam champions - 64-101
Schiavone's combined record vs slam champions - 13-67

Slutiana
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Elena is one of the greatest active player, only thing she is missing is the GS title, beside that she is really great and achieved everything, can´t understand the people who voted for Schiavone but one GS title is obviously enough to become greater than a player like Dementieva :spit:
Can't understand..
Can't understand?

You can't understand the fact that some people place a Grand Slam Title as the ultimate achievement in tennis? You can't understand the fact that some people believe that the Grand Slams are what define a player's career?

I understand the POV of Elena fans and people who voted for her in this poll. She has had years of consistency where she has beaten and challenged the greatest players of this generation, winning an Olympic Gold and an assortment of other titles while getting agonisingly close to winning Slams but for me, usually a Grand Slam is the achievement.

I can also see why people say Years of consistency > 2 lucky weeks, but the last fortnight wasn't about luck, it was the result of years of hard work and the realisation of a talent that looked like it would never be fulfilled. I'm not saying that Schiavone was destined to win a slam, but she's a talented player with the right game who capitalised on relatively decent draw, playing the tennis of her life and some of the smartest and best-executed tennis I have ever seen in my life.

When Wozniacki or some other Generation Sucker wins the 2012 US Open without beating a single top 40 player and a new 'Dementieva vs Wozniacki!!1!" thread is opened then I would most probably side with you. But as far as i'm concerned, that was a great victory by Schiavone and I feel that what she did in the last two weeks, especially considering all the pressure of a first Slam final/the odds against her/the fact that she wasn't even a good matchup for Stosur back when Stosur was shit etc, was the definition of great.

Illusionist
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Schiavone achieved such a big success with this title, but she needs to do a lot more to be greater than Dementieva. You know, some things in tennis aren't just about GS titles.

Sammo
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:34 PM
The Russian revolution pioneer was Kournikova!! Or at least the beauties revolution... lol

Deck
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Dementieva (coming from a Schiavone hardcore fan:p)

LCS
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:37 PM
How narrow minded are the people who say that Slams are all what counts.

ys
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:42 PM
How narrow minded are the people who say that Slams are all what counts.

That's not a narrow-mindedness, but a general knowledge. The question only is, whether this could be considered an exception, given obvious credentials of elite player for Elena and lack of thereof for Fran..

*JR*
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:44 PM
The Russian revolution pioneer was Kournikova!!

Nyet, it was Natalya (aka Natasha) Zvereva! :angel:

Michael!
Jun 8th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Can't understand..
Can't understand?

You can't understand the fact that some people place a Grand Slam Title as the ultimate achievement in tennis? You can't understand the fact that some people believe that the Grand Slams are what define a player's career?

I understand the POV of Elena fans and people who voted for her in this poll. She has had years of consistency where she has beaten and challenged the greatest players of this generation, winning an Olympic Gold and an assortment of other titles while getting agonisingly close to winning Slams but for me, usually a Grand Slam is the achievement.

I can also see why people say Years of consistency > 2 lucky weeks, but the last fortnight wasn't about luck, it was the result of years of hard work and the realisation of a talent that looked like it would never be fulfilled. I'm not saying that Schiavone was destined to win a slam, but she's a talented player with the right game who capitalised on relatively decent draw, playing the tennis of her life and some of the smartest and best-executed tennis I have ever seen in my life.

When Wozniacki or some other Generation Sucker wins the 2012 US Open without beating a single top 40 player and a new 'Dementieva vs Wozniacki!!1!" thread is opened then I would most probably side with you. But as far as i'm concerned, that was a great victory by Schiavone and I feel that what she did in the last two weeks, especially considering all the pressure of a first Slam final/the odds against her/the fact that she wasn't even a good matchup for Stosur back when Stosur was shit etc, was the definition of great.

Sorry, but really not worth it to argue with you, well, 70% think like me, 30% think like you, now you can ask yourself why more people think like me and less like me, surely not bc you have the better arguments!

ClijstersGOAT
Jun 8th, 2010, 10:03 PM
How narrow minded are the people who say that Slams are all what counts.

People who say it are not really tennis fans, they don't care about 'the game', the only care about records.

Slutiana
Jun 8th, 2010, 10:06 PM
Sorry, but really not worth it to argue with you, well, 70% think like me, 30% think like you, now you can ask yourself why more people think like me and less like me, surely not bc you have the better arguments!
Because there are a lot of Dementieva fans on this board.


No, but seriously, in my opinion Schiavone is greater. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that everybody is going to have their own opinion and interpretation of the tour. It doesn't mean that there is a definitive answer. I mean as Max always says, Dementieva probably believes her Olympic Gold and Sliver medals better almost every Slam winner in this generation, but of course most of us would scoff at that idea. However are you saying that you seriously cannot understand why there are people here that hold Grand Slams up as the ultimate achievement?

And yes, there may be more people who agree with you but there are also 67 people who agree with my POV. We can't all be crazy. ;)

Edy.
Jun 8th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Dementieva.

Michael!
Jun 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM
Because there are a lot of Dementieva fans on this board.


No, but seriously, in my opinion Schiavone is greater. I'm not saying you're wrong, but that everybody is going to have their own opinion and interpretation of the tour. It doesn't mean that there is a definitive answer. I mean as Max always says, Dementieva probably believes her Olympic Gold and Sliver medals better almost every Slam winner in this generation, but of course most of us would scoff at that idea. However are you saying that you seriously cannot understand why there are people here that hold Grand Slams up as the ultimate achievement?

And yes, there may be more people who agree with you but there are also 67 people who agree with my POV. We can't all be crazy. ;)

I didnt say you are crazy, you are right, my opinion, your opinion, I only said that more people obviously share my view, but that doesnt mean that you are wrong, I just think different!
For you GS titles just count most, so for you players like Myskina or Majoli are also greater than Dementieva, while for me Dementieva is greater than those two just as for me her consistency is great, Olympic champion, tournament wins, 2 GS finals, no.3 in world, wins over every player on tour, for me that just counts more, for others a GS title counts more, both is fine, no reason for a serious fight IMO anyway!

Otlichno
Jun 8th, 2010, 10:16 PM
It would give me much more pride to win an Olympic Gold medal than a Grand Slam. Winning a Grand Slam is great and all, especially, as in Franny's case, you are the first female from you'r country to win one. But when you win an Olympic Gold Medal, you are not only part of Tennis History, you are part of sports history and you are part of you'r country's history. Aspiring tennis players from you'r country will look up to you as their role model, and that, in my honest opinion is the greatest thing a sports person can do.

Elena Dementieva in my opinion, hands down.

Seyz
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:03 AM
Fran,
that is until Dementieva wins a slam.

CloudAtlas
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:07 AM
Who's beaten more top players and been a fairly regular top player? One swallow does not make a summer. Thst logic is like in 2004 if someone said Iva Majoli is better than Kim Clijsters,

fammmmedspin
Jun 9th, 2010, 01:26 AM
I didnt say you are crazy, you are right, my opinion, your opinion, I only said that more people obviously share my view, but that doesnt mean that you are wrong, I just think different!
For you GS titles just count most, so for you players like Myskina or Majoli are also greater than Dementieva, while for me Dementieva is greater than those two just as for me her consistency is great, Olympic champion, tournament wins, 2 GS finals, no.3 in world, wins over every player on tour, for me that just counts more, for others a GS title counts more, both is fine, no reason for a serious fight IMO anyway!

Nastya pretty much owned Elena. She could match her play, out think her and impose her will on her. You can't really put Elena over her because of a longer playing record.

Iva was more like Francesca. She pulled out her best tennis on the right day. Elena managed that once at the Olympics too - she just can't do it in a GS.

meteor
Jun 9th, 2010, 02:46 AM
hmmm. a month ago, this question would have sounded ludicrous. now, it actually has some validity.

i agree with the people who think that a slam is more important than a gold medal. also, i lost 60% of my respect for elena (not that there was that much left, anyway), after she retired to hand schiavone the final berth. so, yeah, elena has underwhelmed in all the slams she has played, and has let her fans down so many times, while schiavone was given one chance at greatness, and she seized it. as of today, at least, i respect schiavone the more out of the two.

dsanders06
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:31 PM
Bump. :)

Imo, it's still Dementieva by miles. She established herself as arguably the BEST player EVER to never win a Slam... whereas Schiavone is still right near the bottom of the pile when it comes to Slam champions... she's maybe chased down Myskina at this point, but she's still well behind the likes of Novotna and Ivanovic. Dementieva is the WTA's Marcelo Rios, while Schiavone is Albert Costa.

miffedmax
Aug 2nd, 2011, 06:58 PM
Elena's bebanged, goddess perfection cannot be measured by tennis alone. Her Lenaliciousness defies definition and comprehension by mere mortals. Lena does not fail, we fail to understand her divine sublimity.

Stonerpova
Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:04 PM
Schiavone has a slam. That's enough for me.

Potato
Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:09 PM
If I had to pick between only one slam and OG with no slam, I would take the OG.

I am pretty sure that Dementieva is more famous in Russia than Myskina, for example?

Sammo
Aug 2nd, 2011, 07:47 PM
Fluke Slam defeating injured players and mental midgets or extremely deserved Olympic Gold that made her famous in Russia for the rest of her life? :scratch:

TheHangover
Aug 2nd, 2011, 08:39 PM
i say dementieva, i can't ignore that she was the better player of the two