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AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:52 AM
When did this happen? :confused:

At AO, Henin's strategy seemed...off, but as a match went on she seemed to always right the ship. I chalked it up to tinkering with her game (which seemed obvious) but at least I could tell what she was trying to do on court.

Here in Miami... she's looked... not just awful, but completely absent-minded. I can't really tell if there is any reason or thought behind her play and that is VERY strange to see from Justine.

It's fine for her to be aggressive and try to implement that into her game.. however, there is a right and wrong way to do that. And what I've been watching.. it seems she's not doing the right things.

Can any Henin fans help me out? b/c this is baffling.

RenaSlam.
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:53 AM
She won't win RG with this game style.

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:54 AM
I mean... she's making choices even a club player wouldnt make.

tennnisfannn
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:54 AM
Now there is a sentence we never thought we would see not even on this board!

Salve
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:54 AM
:o She's also mentally weaker now :help:

pav
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:59 AM
At the risk of being boring, I wish someone had told a certain crybaby all this :sad:

madmax
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:00 AM
She's saving her best for the ultimate goal - Wimby title...it's all a part of the master plan people

G1Player2
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:00 AM
I think her opponents have something to do with this as well. She looked strong against Zvonareva but playing Wozniacki and then Kim Clijsters back to back is a tall order. They are both great defenders and the match against Caro definitely took it's toll.

Conor
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:02 AM
Its allllllllll part of the masterplan ;)

pav
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:05 AM
I picked that little bugger Heng to win so Allez!

iPatty
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:11 AM
Like I said after the Wozniacki match - Henin is becoming unwatchable. It's so strange to see her miss the most routine shots as she tries to hit the shit out of every ball.

Conor
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM
Like I said after the Wozniacki match - Henin is becoming unwatchable. It's so strange to see her miss the most routine shots as she tries to hit the shit out of every ball.

:lol:

RenaSlam.
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM
Like I said after the Wozniacki match - Henin is becoming unwatchable. It's so strange to see her miss the most routine shots as she tries to hit the shit out of every ball.

That sums it up.

sfan
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:18 AM
Ballbashers should be able to hit more than 4 winners in a set and 7 winners in an entier match. Justine is clearly struggling with that right now :help: :tape:

Jane Lane
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:19 AM
I'd like to think it's part of the master plan...yet it is slightly painful.
The one thing I didn't miss--how stressed I get when I watch her.

She'll sort it out.

iPatty
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:21 AM
:lol:

What other reason could there be for the countless errors on standard rally balls?

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:22 AM
that last point... a high bouncing return off the baseline and you try to hit it for a winner??!?!? WTF?
Where is her brain?

sammy01
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:22 AM
when she 1st started her comeback i like everyone else was very unsure of this attack at all costs approach, but after seeing how eaily kim can move henin round the court in both the 1st set in brisbane and in miami, henin has to do something to control the rallies.

im not sure how else on a hardcourt she can now counter an on or near on serena or kim, bar to be super attacking. it really isn't pretty though. maybe clay she will use more of her shot selection and court craft as she has more time to.

Kovalchuk
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:23 AM
is this master plan needs two or more years to accomplish?

Conor
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:23 AM
What other reason could there be for the countless errors on standard rally balls?

No no I agree with you lol

Keadz
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:24 AM
I miss the old Justine :sad:...of course Kim will find a way to lose :lol:

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:25 AM
And this match is going as I predicted :lol: Kim CHOKING and failing to close the second... like Brisbane. I think that's all Henin has to fall back on.
She can't hit through Kim with this form.

RenaSlam.
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:26 AM
Kim is definitely striking the ball better, although a few more UEs have crept into her game this set.

duhcity
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:29 AM
I've been saying it for months.

Henin's new game is a complete crapshoot. When it's on, she is amazing.
When it's off, it's REALLY off.

She basically turned into Li Na with a stronger mind.

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:29 AM
And this match is going as I predicted :lol: Kim CHOKING and failing to close the second... like Brisbane. I think that's all Henin has to fall back on.
She can't hit through Kim with this form.

ok, so maybe I was wrong :lick:

iPatty
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:30 AM
No no I agree with you lol

Oh alright, my mistake. I thought you were laughing as in "you have no idea what you are talking about." Of course right after I posted that statement Clijsters started making the exact same mistakes.

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:30 AM
I've been saying it for months.

Henin's new game is a complete crapshoot. When it's on, she is amazing.
When it's off, it's REALLY off.

She basically turned into Li Na with a stronger mind.

In AO it didnt seem to bad.. it just needed work. Here though.. it's a hot mess

jefrilibra
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:31 AM
She's run out of ideas!:tape:

Martian KC
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:38 AM
This type of game will not beat Venus tomorrow if she survives tonite.

RenaSlam.
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:39 AM
Awesome choke, Kim. :tape: :lol:

Mightymirza
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:40 AM
:lol: the aim is clear.. ;) Wimbledon! And looks like only ballbashers do well there.. (look at the recent history hehe)

Conor
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:40 AM
Awesome choke, Kim. :tape: :lol:

Would you have expected anything different lol

Conor
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:42 AM
The American commentator just said 'Allez! Comes the cry from Enna... who speaks a little bit of French' :tape:

Jane Lane
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:44 AM
The American commentator just said 'Allez! Comes the cry from Enna... who speaks a little bit of French' :tape:

Our sports media = joke.
:rolleyes:
The channel this match was supposed to be is showing hockey instead...good thing the team isn't even in the playoff race...?
So I'm holed up in my basement watching on my computer :lol:

King Halep
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:46 AM
I mean... she's making choices even a club player wouldnt make.

:lol::lol: are you serious

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:47 AM
:lol::lol: are you serious

Yes I'm serious :P even club players know not to try for winners from completely impossible positions.
Who does she think she is?? Venus?? :rolleyes: Pshhhh




:lol:

sammy01
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:50 AM
tonight i think i twigged what is lacking for kim, an anger at things and determination to turn around her bad play. she is far to accepting of when things start going away from her.

King Halep
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:59 AM
so she looks like she is trying out new ideas, i dont see why she cant do that, especially when she is trying to force the issue against pushers

iPatty
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:09 AM
tonight i think i twigged what is lacking for kim, an anger at things and determination to turn around her bad play. she is far to accepting of when things start going away from her.

I think she's trying to emotionally detach herself from this match so it won't be as crushing if she does end up choking and losing, which she appeared to be thinking about even while up a set and 30*. It's a dangerous attitude to have, that's for sure.

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:11 AM
I think she's trying to emotionally detach herself from this match so it won't be as crushing if she does end up choking and losing, which she appeared to be thinking about even while up a set and 30*. It's a dangerous attitude to have, that's for sure.

I agree.. but it allows her to be less tentative when it matters. We've seen her crumble against Serena, Henin, and others.
I'd rather see her go down swinging than reverting to Kim-5ft-behind-the-baseline-retriever mode.

King Halep
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:13 AM
are you named after iron maiden

iPatty
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:16 AM
I agree.. but it allows her to be less tentative when it matters. We've seen her crumble against Serena, Henin, and others.
I'd rather see her go down swinging than reverting to Kim-5ft-behind-the-baseline-retriever mode.

While that's true, the intensity and focus that comes from an emotional involvement in a match would have carried her to a 62 60 victory. It goes both ways, really. I've always found Kim to be at her best when she is fist pumping and giving out the "come ons." It just seems like she doesn't even care when she misses the most routine shots.

King Halep
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:16 AM
henin's game seems to have tightened up in third set, not making so many club hacker errors

AcesHigh
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:19 AM
While that's true, the intensity and focus that comes from an emotional involvement in a match would have carried her to a 62 60 victory. It goes both ways, really. I've always found Kim to be at her best when she is fist pumping and giving out the "come ons." It just seems like she doesn't even care when she misses the most routine shots.

I think it's completely different against Henin. I think the emotional involvement is just too dangerous for her. A few errors, and her confidence could be shot.. or a paralysis of sorts. She's always seemed to be mentally fragile at times.. especially against Henin.
I have no idea what's going on in Kim's head when she plays Justine but it's almost like a fear... an extreme intimidation, or lack of belief in herself.

Hopefully Kim finds a way to deal with this but I think for now the only recourse she's developed is to completely separate herself from the match and just play.

sammy01
Apr 2nd, 2010, 04:19 AM
I think she's trying to emotionally detach herself from this match so it won't be as crushing if she does end up choking and losing, which she appeared to be thinking about even while up a set and 30*. It's a dangerous attitude to have, that's for sure.

yeah you almost get the feeling she would rather see a williams in her draw than henin, cus at least she can let it all out on the court against them. she should win this match her tennis is better, but her head is getting in the way.

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 2nd, 2010, 06:10 AM
i don't know why she thinks it'll work at wimbledon....it will play right into the hands of serena and venus :shrug:

DOUBLEFIST
Apr 2nd, 2010, 06:16 AM
I think it's completely different against Henin. I think the emotional involvement is just too dangerous for her. A few errors, and her confidence could be shot.. or a paralysis of sorts. She's always seemed to be mentally fragile at times.. especially against Henin.
I have no idea what's going on in Kim's head when she plays Justine but it's almost like a fear... an extreme intimidation, or lack of belief in herself.

Hopefully Kim finds a way to deal with this but I think for now the only recourse she's developed is to completely separate herself from the match and just play.

Likely pressure. Belgian bragging rights. Let's face it, these two are rivals of the first order no matter how "nice" they behave in public. This is also why I feel this loss is especially painful for Justine. This is twice now this year that Kim has held together and pulled it out in 3. There has been no marked improvement in Juju's game since the beginning of the year.

kiwifan
Apr 2nd, 2010, 06:24 AM
Maybe Henin likes Ball Bashing because it is FUN!!! :shrug:

hingisGOAT
Apr 2nd, 2010, 06:32 AM
Henin has always pressed IMO, she wins and loses playing aggressive tennis. It's nothing new.

bandabou
Apr 2nd, 2010, 12:08 PM
Not good, not good...Juju dhould understand that she will never succeed at beating the big babes at their own game..simply because Juju herself is a little babe.

Pasta-Na
Apr 2nd, 2010, 01:13 PM
i agree... shes a ballbasher now. :sad:

thrust
Apr 2nd, 2010, 01:53 PM
I think her opponents have something to do with this as well. She looked strong against Zvonareva but playing Wozniacki and then Kim Clijsters back to back is a tall order. They are both great defenders and the match against Caro definitely took it's toll.

I agree. Didn't Lindsay or Tim say that they noticed her back was heavily taped when her shirt rose up. I do think her body is no longer up to the effort it takes to win an important or major tournament, which may explain the effort to end points quickly. If the new game is geared primarily to win Wimbledon, then it is a very foolish one.

Slutiana
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:03 PM
The American commentator just said 'Allez! Comes the cry from Enna... who speaks a little bit of French' :tape:
:help:
so she looks like she is trying out new ideas, i dont see why she cant do that, especially when she is trying to force the issue against pushers
Well maybe because that's exactly what they want?

Slutiana
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:06 PM
I agree. Didn't Lindsay or Tim say that they noticed her back was heavily taped when her shirt rose up. I do think her body is no longer up to the effort it takes to win an important or major tournament, which may explain the effort to end points quickly. If the new game is geared primarily to win Wimbledon, then it is a very foolish one.
But if that was the caseshe would surely be looking to go to the net whenever possible.

Aaric
Apr 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM
She´s always hit pretty hard, but this :help: I liked the old henin

laurie
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:18 PM
I was watching the Miami semifinal highlights on Eurosport earlier and I was a bit surprised by what Henin was doing so its interesting to see this thread.

What really interested me was how often Henin was hitting through the backhand. I’ve always said that Clijsters had problems against Mauresmo because Mauresmo hit higher loopy topspin backhands over the net which bounce up high, giving Kim problems because Kim doesn’t like dealing with those despite using two hands. And then Mauresmo would use the slice a lot more, so really making Kim have to deal with high floating balls then low balls she has to pick up, really getting Kim off her rhythm, then Mauresmo was able to exploit that picking when to attack the net on her terms with on average more success. Like Andre Agassi, Kim Clisters likes pace so its always up to a good attacking player to deny her that.

By going toe to toe with Cljsters, Henin is actually playing into Clijsters’ hands with those choice of tactics she’s presently using. Henin’s backhand is driven too flat and going nicely into Kim’s hitting zone.

If Henin really wants to play an attacking game, taking to the net more than usual, then she should get videos of the Masters of this art – like Sampras and Becker for example. These two guys used the tactic I discuss about Mauresmo beautifully. They used the backhand with high loopy topspin shots, then low slices and if they wanted to attack the net they would either use the backhand down the line, or a nice low floated slice deep which allowed them more time to get closer to the net, or a drop shot to bring their opponent in, or deep high backhands they look to get a short ball off to then use the forehand, they had a lot of options at their disposal. Sampras also liked to go down the line with his forehand, stretching his opponent so Henin is probably hitting the inside out forehand too often at the moment to her opponent’s backhand, maybe she needs to go down the line more often and mix it up.

So yes, Henin just needs to vary her game much more than she’s doing at the moment. Just taking to the net a lot doesn’t mean she will do well at Wimbledon, she has to be crafty about how and when to attack the net, using all the shots she has more often and actually being more patient in choosing when to attack the net at the right times, if she’s passed then too good but at least try to make better decisions about when to go in.

fantic
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:33 PM
They used the backhand with high loopy topspin shots, then low slices and if they wanted to attack the net they would either use the backhand down the line, or a nice low floated slice deep which allowed them more time to get closer to the net, or a drop shot to bring their opponent in, or deep high backhands they look to get a short ball off to then use the forehand, they had a lot of options at their disposal.

Just taking to the net a lot doesn’t mean she will do well at Wimbledon, she has to be crafty about how and when to attack the net, using all the shots she has more often and actually being more patient in choosing when to attack the net at the right times, if she’s passed then too good but at least try to make better decisions about when to go in.

but didn't Henin use slice a lot against Kim? maybe it was just a defensive slice and not as tactical and effective

as you suggested?

And I agree about the net approach. The wrong net approach could be disastrous, as was proved by Kiri(after the 1st set) and Aga

against Caro, methink..

changel
Apr 2nd, 2010, 03:41 PM
Not good, not good...Juju dhould understand that she will never succeed at beating the big babes at their own game..simply because Juju herself is a little babe.

Yep, that's why I'm saying since she came back, she is giving so many points right now.

laurie
Apr 2nd, 2010, 05:54 PM
but didn't Henin use slice a lot against Kim? maybe it was just a defensive slice and not as tactical and effective

as you suggested?

And I agree about the net approach. The wrong net approach could be disastrous, as was proved by Kiri(after the 1st set) and Aga

against Caro, methink..

Yes I think so, Henin tended to use the slice to defend - I don't get the impression she uses the slice as a strategy against Kim.

Dunlop1
Apr 2nd, 2010, 06:56 PM
Yes I think so, Henin tended to use the slice to defend - I don't get the impression she uses the slice as a strategy against Kim.

Henin's slice isn't consistently as skidding as Mauresmo's slice. Mauresmo is also better at net than Justine, esp helped by her physicality (taller, more reach, stronger)

I agree with you about Henin's aggression. In the Caro livescoring thread, I mentioned the chip and charge for getting to net, because Justine was just trying to blast her way off 2nd serve returns to net.
The low slice gives you more time and it is lower so the opponent has to hit up.
Last night against Kim, she hit a big 2nd serve return and attempted to approach the net.
But it wasn't particularly deep or well placed. Kim took one step and hit it cross court.
The ball was past Henin while she had barely crossed the service line.

I don't have a problem with how early she is taking the ball now. I just would like better placement and a bit more height on the ball. Her grips aren't suited for constant flat hits.

Matt01
Apr 2nd, 2010, 07:42 PM
Justine was a ballbasher back in 2006 at the YEC (which she won) where she was outhitting Sharapova.

Justine can't stay unaggressive when she wants to win something, especially on hardcourts. She is a hardhitter who has to dictate the points, otherwise she loses (see Wimbledon SF 2007 where she got nervous and was tossed around).

That said, she slightly has to adjust her game now for clay (more topspin) and then for grass (more serve&volley).

Yonexforever
Apr 2nd, 2010, 07:54 PM
I think her adsence from the TOur has convinced her that poower tennis is REQUIRED these days, but i think she has overcompensated.
The pendulum is swinging back to tactital tennis .
She should dust of that slice and forget the fasciniation with comong over that backhand all the time.
THe pace of the backhand scares NO ONE, these girls see heavy/hard backhands all day long, what they dont see or are notgood at dealing with is variety and S L I C E !!!!

Tennisstar86
Apr 2nd, 2010, 08:00 PM
I think her adsence from the TOur has convinced her that poower tennis is REQUIRED these days, but i think she has overcompensated.
The pendulum is swinging back to tactital tennis .
She should dust of that slice and forget the fasciniation with comong over that backhand all the time.
THe pace of the backhand scares NO ONE, these girls see heavy/hard backhands all day long, what they dont see or are notgood at dealing with is variety and S L I C E !!!!

Have you seen Venus' Backhand lately..... Shit is scary..... Slice or not Justine just needs depth on her shots again..... She can hit it as hard as she wants, if its in the middle of the court or the service line its a waiste of time.....

trufanjay
Apr 2nd, 2010, 08:21 PM
Thats an oxymoron lol

Maybe she feels like thats the way to win matches on these hardcourts. As far as the AO and Miami are concerned, Serena and Kim should be beating her on hardcourts anyways. Maybe Justine feels like she needs to be more aggressive with her pace. I think she has been playing pretty well since she came back.

This "ballbashing", as some see it as, obviously hasn't caused her much trouble. She had one bad match where she lost to Dulko and thats it.

When it comes to the clay she would definitely want to use her same old game and dominate through to the French Open.

LightWarrior
Apr 2nd, 2010, 09:26 PM
When it comes to the clay she would definitely want to use her same old game and dominate through to the French Open.

Why and how would she revert to her old style of play just for RG as it is obvious now that her new style is aimed at (trying) winning Wimbledon ? You can't swtich your game overnight.

AmeDevotee
Apr 2nd, 2010, 09:50 PM
I was watching the Miami semifinal highlights on Eurosport earlier and I was a bit surprised by what Henin was doing so its interesting to see this thread.

What really interested me was how often Henin was hitting through the backhand. I’ve always said that Clijsters had problems against Mauresmo because Mauresmo hit higher loopy topspin backhands over the net which bounce up high, giving Kim problems because Kim doesn’t like dealing with those despite using two hands. And then Mauresmo would use the slice a lot more, so really making Kim have to deal with high floating balls then low balls she has to pick up, really getting Kim off her rhythm, then Mauresmo was able to exploit that picking when to attack the net on her terms with on average more success. Like Andre Agassi, Kim Clisters likes pace so its always up to a good attacking player to deny her that.By going toe to toe with Cljsters, Henin is actually playing into Clijsters’ hands with those choice of tactics she’s presently using. Henin’s backhand is driven too flat and going nicely into Kim’s hitting zone.

If Henin really wants to play an attacking game, taking to the net more than usual, then she should get videos of the Masters of this art – like Sampras and Becker for example. These two guys used the tactic I discuss about Mauresmo beautifully. They used the backhand with high loopy topspin shots, then low slices and if they wanted to attack the net they would either use the backhand down the line, or a nice low floated slice deep which allowed them more time to get closer to the net, or a drop shot to bring their opponent in, or deep high backhands they look to get a short ball off to then use the forehand, they had a lot of options at their disposal. Sampras also liked to go down the line with his forehand, stretching his opponent so Henin is probably hitting the inside out forehand too often at the moment to her opponent’s backhand, maybe she needs to go down the line more often and mix it up.

So yes, Henin just needs to vary her game much more than she’s doing at the moment. Just taking to the net a lot doesn’t mean she will do well at Wimbledon, she has to be crafty about how and when to attack the net, using all the shots she has more often and actually being more patient in choosing when to attack the net at the right times, if she’s passed then too good but at least try to make better decisions about when to go in.

Are you saying that Justine is (consciously or otherwise) trying to play like peak 2006 Amelie in order to win Wimbledon? Or did I misunderstand? :unsure:

If so, no wonder she's struggling. She needs to play her natural game. :shrug:

laurie
Apr 2nd, 2010, 10:55 PM
Are you saying that Justine is (consciously or otherwise) trying to play like peak 2006 Amelie in order to win Wimbledon? Or did I misunderstand? :unsure:

If so, no wonder she's struggling. She needs to play her natural game. :shrug:

Well, as Dunlop 1 pointed out, Justine doesn't have the physical attributes to play a net game consistently.

But the point I was making is that, all natural attacking players mix up their groundstroke game to keep baseline players off balance. Baseline players like Kim and Agassi who I used as a reference point, are happy to hit pace over and over again, and absorb pace of their opponent to hit harder and better. So to beat Kim, its better to mix up the game and get her off balance, and thats what Amelie Mauresmo was good at.

So I'm saying that if Justine wants to become a net player more often, she has to mix up her game more often which will give her better options of when to come in, its not always good to come in on pace, sometimes its better to come in on slices that keep low so her opponents would have to hit up more often.

I'm not saying Justine should play like Mauresmo, just have a more tactical game and I used Amelie's tactics against a power player like Kim as an example of a successful strategy.

AmeDevotee
Apr 2nd, 2010, 11:08 PM
Well, as Dunlop 1 pointed out, Justine doesn't have the physical attributes to play a net game consistently.

But the point I was making is that, all natural attacking players mix up their groundstroke game to keep baseline players off balance. Baseline players like Kim and Agassi who I used as a reference point, are happy to hit pace over and over again, and absorb pace of their opponent to hit harder and better. So to beat Kim, its better to mix up the game and get her off balance, and thats what Amelie Mauresmo was good at.

So I'm saying that if Justine wants to become a net player more often, she has to mix up her game more often which will give her better options of when to come in, its not always good to come in on pace, sometimes its better to come in on slices that keep low so her opponents would have to hit up more often.

I'm not saying Justine should play like Mauresmo, just have a more tactical game and I used Amelie's tactics against a power player like Kim as an example of a successful strategy.

I didn't think you were, but I just wondered if you felt that she was subconsciously trying to. Thanks for the clarification. :)

laurie
Apr 2nd, 2010, 11:08 PM
I would just add one futher point, as I said earlier I believe, the idea of driving the backhand hard and low over the net didn't seem to work. When Sampras had those backhand to backhand exchanges against Courier for example, he hit it high over the net and deep, trying to get Courier behind the baseline so if Courier dropped the ball short in reply, then Sampras could try to get on top in the rally.

Henin driving the ball lower over the net and flat doesn't seem to me a good idea.

Unfortunately, all of the Mauresmo v Clisjters matches I had on youtube was removed over a year ago, but this one is an example of whatI mean about playing an aggressive baseliner on hardcourts

V9h0OXW479M

AmeDevotee
Apr 2nd, 2010, 11:14 PM
Interesting clip; thanks for posting that. :yeah:

goldenlox
Apr 3rd, 2010, 12:52 AM
Henin's style of play and results this clay season are going to be fascinating.

Loudman
Apr 3rd, 2010, 01:39 AM
She's just working on her comeback, she is not at her best yet.
Next year she might be back to her old self, but it takes some time to build up match rythm, mindset, tactical plans vs different players etc.

Arnian
Apr 3rd, 2010, 01:46 AM
I have faith in Justine, I'm not worried

hotviolin83
Apr 3rd, 2010, 02:04 AM
I miss the variety in her game, too. she was so unpredictable with her backhand before, she could slice it, hit topspin, the crazy angles...now it's always down the middle with great pace, but that doesn't hurt players like kim at all. It's unconceivable to think that it is her weak side now. The forehand is more erratic but much more lethal
Her game used to flow beautifully, but now it all looks really forced. Dunno, it's just an impression I've got.
I agree she should play Kim like Amelie did. She has the resources and has a mortal forehand along with her mentality, too. If she goes toe to toe with Kim, she's gonna come 2nd fiddle in the majority of rallies. Kim's pace right now is the highest on tour imo, even higher than the Williamses and she can hit tons and tons of balls...you have to throw her off her rhythm somehow

Thkmra
Apr 3rd, 2010, 03:03 AM
*Sigh* Yes she's specifically reformatting her game in preparation of Wimby, and yes she's still relatively soon in her come back and needs to work out many chunks....but what people don't seem to understand is that quite simply she is not the player she was when she left the tour:shrug:

Judging from people's reactions to her losses-and play, it appears that some honestly thought she'd easily return to her winning ways, and challenge Serena at the top in no time, and this IS NOT going to happen!! Her basic game, and it's fundamentals is there, but you run that risk all the time of losing your 'Mojo' when you leave something, coupled with stronger competition, and just general old age that alludes no one. I think people just need to calm down and appreciate the effort she's made to coming back on the tour, and the commitment that includes, appreciate her for the plater she WAS a couple of years ago, and the player she is now and 'Live, and Let Live'!!

Matt01
Apr 3rd, 2010, 03:21 AM
Judging from people's reactions to her losses-and play, it appears that some honestly thought she'd easily return to her winning ways, and challenge Serena at the top in no time, and this IS NOT going to happen!!


Justine already challenged Serena in her 2nd tournament...

hotviolin83
Apr 3rd, 2010, 12:18 PM
Yeah, the difference in that AO was the serve. She went toe to toe with Serena for most of the match and she even outplayed Williams from the baseline. The difference was that Henin couldn't buy a first serve for the sake of her life and Serena's bombastic serve

BuTtErFrEnA
Apr 3rd, 2010, 01:09 PM
she only outplayed serena for that patch in the middle of the 2nd to beginning of the 3rd where serena's level dipped a bit and jh started to blast winners from every shot...other than that i quite recall jh going toe to toe with serena and coming out on the losing end of the battles especially on mp

but let's use your logic and say the 1st serve is what cost her: given how serena returns wouldn't that lead me to believe serena had the upper hand in the majority of rallies, unless you want to tell me that jh just gave serena errors all the time and serena had to do nothing...

ask people how it usually ends trying to go toe to toe, power for power, with serena...while you "may" get a chance on hc since it's more neutral, jh is trying to tailor her game to win wimbledon, and all the so called players who tried going toe to toe with the owners of wimbledon have almost always come out on the losing end...if you doubt it just take a look at the fact that apart from 2006, there's always been a ws in the wimbledon final since 2000...

and plz don't put in any of your posts again that Kim is more powerful than the ws...that's laughable at best

Matt01
Apr 3rd, 2010, 03:42 PM
Yeah, the difference in that AO was the serve.


That was the main difference, yes.

Noctis
Apr 3rd, 2010, 03:46 PM
And Mental Strength.

Matt01
Apr 3rd, 2010, 04:02 PM
Nope.

Shinjiro
Apr 3rd, 2010, 04:08 PM
Better stamina too, which was to be expected tbh.


I would just add one futher point, as I said earlier I believe, the idea of driving the backhand hard and low over the net didn't seem to work. When Sampras had those backhand to backhand exchanges against Courier for example, he hit it high over the net and deep, trying to get Courier behind the baseline so if Courier dropped the ball short in reply, then Sampras could try to get on top in the rally.

Henin driving the ball lower over the net and flat doesn't seem to me a good idea.

Unfortunately, all of the Mauresmo v Clisjters matches I had on youtube was removed over a year ago, but this one is an example of whatI mean about playing an aggressive baseliner on hardcourts

V9h0OXW479M
Great clip, thanks. :hatoff: