PDA

View Full Version : Do you think Caroline Wozniacki is over-rated and will never win a grand slam?


Pages : 1 [2]

dsanders06
Sep 24th, 2012, 11:55 PM
2011 was Petra's year if anyone's and was at least recognised as "real #1" by the ITF making her world champion.

But the rankings in 2010 became a complete joke after Serena got injured. It had started out so respectably with her winning two slams as the number one seed - for only the 7th and 8th time in the past 10 years. I find it baffling that they wouldn't use the discretion they have in previous years to part with the computer rankings to award the best player for that year. I mean Serena did win more slams than anyone else and spent most of the year at #1. Now the YE#1 for 2010 and 2011 just looks awful. A player who didn't even make a slam final in those years and will probably never make one since.

So, after going on a rant in last week's thread about how Li and Stosur didn't deserve to be in the top 3 for 2011 because they did nothing apart from their Slam wins, you seriously think Serena was the real #1 in 2010 when she did LITERALLY nothing outside of her 2 Slam wins? :rolls: Hilarious.

Most people agree Clijsters was Player of the Year in 2010.

In terms of ability, Wozniacki is definitely a better player than the likes of Errani, Bartoli, Radwanska and Kerber who are all ranked ahead of her.

No.

Clijsters28
Sep 25th, 2012, 12:00 AM
2010 I would say Clijsters was the real #1 and Serena was the one still considered best player, and either could have been called Player of the Year. Lets leave it at that.

2011 Kvitova was all of best player, best year, real #1.

2005 Clijsters was all of those things instead of Davenport.


As for Bartoli vs Wozniacki, Bartoli deserves to be ranked similar or higher now but Wozniacki has already almost for sure surpassed Bartoli's final career. Just remember that much.

PMBH
Sep 25th, 2012, 01:04 AM
Whether Caro can win a slam or not depends entirely on two factors: 1) Can she regain her form from late 2010/early 2011? 2) Will Serena continue to dominate? Caro in her old form has a chance anyday against the likes of Sharapova, Vika and Kvitty. Only Serena constitutes an impregnable barrier when playing her best.

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 01:37 AM
Wozniacki in any form will get destroyed by Kvitova on grass or indoors, will regularly lose to Azarenka on hard courts or grass, and Sharapova on clay or grass, so amongst them they already can sufficiently shut Wozniacki out of any chance of major titles even if in good form she arguably has a chance against each on "some" surface. You cant go on her past head to head with these players as Sharapova in 2009/early 2010, Kvitova in 2009 and 2010, Azarenka in 2009 and 2010 were nothing like the players they are now, and that is where her matches with them took place. Even then we have evidence of some of what I said at her own peak vs weaker versions of these players, she won only 2 games when she played Petra on grass, she lost in straight sets the time she played Maria on clay, and so on.

swim4life227
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:21 AM
She just won Korea. What are your faves doing?

In The Zone
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:24 AM
She just won Korea. What are your faves doing?

:spit:

It's called "afterglow." ;)

swim4life227
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:25 AM
I was being sarcastic. I am not her fan :lol:

Cajka
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:37 AM
No.

It's hard to prove which one of them is the most talented, but so far she has achieved more than those girls that Bradbury mentioned and she's younger than them. And they all pretty much peaked already, probably. Aga is probably the only one who has considerable room for improvement.

roguedandelion
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:44 AM
She's so young, why can't she improve?

Cajka
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:58 AM
She's so young, why can't she improve?

Is this an answer to my post? :p

PMBH
Sep 25th, 2012, 04:57 AM
Wozniacki in any form will get destroyed by Kvitova on grass or indoors, will regularly lose to Azarenka on hard courts or grass, and Sharapova on clay or grass, so amongst them they already can sufficiently shut Wozniacki out of any chance of major titles even if in good form she arguably has a chance against each on "some" surface. You cant go on her past head to head with these players as Sharapova in 2009/early 2010, Kvitova in 2009 and 2010, Azarenka in 2009 and 2010 were nothing like the players they are now, and that is where her matches with them took place. Even then we have evidence of some of what I said at her own peak vs weaker versions of these players, she won only 2 games when she played Petra on grass, she lost in straight sets the time she played Maria on clay, and so on.

Funny how selective memory works :) During her peak time from August 2010 to March 2011 Caro was in a completely different league than Maria, Petra and Vika. She won eight tournaments in this period, including five Tier One trophies. True, she didn’t go all the way at the slams but was quite consistent with semifinals at both USO and AO (where she had match point).

Maria, Petra and Vika have been nowhere near as dominant since then. Collectively, they have only won nine tournaments all year. Furthermore, they are very far from being ‘scary’ opponents the way a Serena in form will always be. Petra seems to be regressing, Sharapova tightens up when the going gets tough, and Vika has neither the physical nor mental aptitude to stay competitive for long periods of time.

Sure, Caro is the one who has something to prove after a horrendous 2012. But she won’t exactly be the first player to come back stronger than ever after a slump. She is fit, injury-free, determined, and now seems much more at ease in her personal life (now moving in with Rory). She still faces serious challenges in regards to finding a consistent playing style. But a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence that always follows a significant transition. If/when she regains that confidence she will once again be competing for the big titles.

Setsuna.
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:04 AM
In terms of ability, Wozniacki is definitely a better player than the likes of Errani, Bartoli, Radwanska and Kerber who are all ranked ahead of her.

Just no.

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:38 AM
Funny how selective memory works :) During her peak time from August 2010 to March 2011 Caro was in a completely different league than Maria, Petra and Vika. She won eight tournaments in this period, including five Tier One trophies. True, she didn’t go all the way at the slams but was quite consistent with semifinals at both USO and AO (where she had match point).

Maria, Petra and Vika have been nowhere near as dominant since then. Collectively, they have only won nine tournaments all year. Furthermore, they are very far from being ‘scary’ opponents the way a Serena in form will always be. Petra seems to be regressing, Sharapova tightens up when the going gets tough, and Vika has neither the physical nor mental aptitude to stay competitive for long periods of time.

Sure, Caro is the one who has something to prove after a horrendous 2012. But she won’t exactly be the first player to come back stronger than ever after a slump. She is fit, injury-free, determined, and now seems much more at ease in her personal life (now moving in with Rory). She still faces serious challenges in regards to finding a consistent playing style. But a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence that always follows a significant transition. If/when she regains that confidence she will once again be competing for the big titles.

Need I remind you Maria Sharapova is a FOUR time slam Champion. She already had 3 slam titles at Wozniacki's current age. She would have had more but she lost 5 slam semis in a row to legends Venus, Serena, Henin, Clijsters, and Mauresmo between 2 of her slams. Sorry you might love Wozniacki but she is nothing compared to Maria at this point, even at her peak, and I am far from a Maria fan. Are you seriously suggesting Wozniacki at her peak is better than an in form Maria, lol! Need I also now remind you Maria in her career has beaten Henin and Serena in slam finals in straight sets. Maria beat Henin at her peak of peaks twice in slams in straight sets, drubbing Henin both times in fact. For someone like Wozniacki that is unfathomable to pull off.

Azarenka this year has won the Australian Open, won Indian Wells, won Doha, won Brisbane, lost an amazing U.S Open final to the Serena who is murdering everyone else right, made the Wimbledon semis while taking a record aceing Serena to being down a set point in the 2nd set, and won an Olympic singles medal. Tell me what year Wozniacki ever had a year close to that since it doesnt exist. You are probably the only one after watching her amazing U.S Open matches with both Sharapova and Serena who thinks she doesnt have what it takes physically or mentally to stay competitive in the long haul, get real here.

Petra's 2011 is also superior to any year Wozniacki has ever had by a long ways. 6 titles which matches Wozniacki's most but hers including Wimbledon and WTA Championships, also Fed Cup Champion (which isnt even counted in the offical 6), and titles on all surfaces. She is down from that this year but Wozniacki is even more, and if you are so sure Wozniacki can come back, then Petra who isnt nearly as far down certainly can as well. A large reason both are well down from last year is Serena, Sharapova, and Azarenka are playing at a much higher level than either of them faced last year, and the titles arent there easy for Wozniacki and Kvitova like last year against mostly abysmal competition. Also when it comes to selective memory maybe you need some. This is PEAK Wozniacki according to you vs Kvitova at Wimbledon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWQ0JFiou8c

Yet you can say Wozniacki returning to peak form would have a chance vs all these players any day on any surface, even on grass. Whatever. :help: :tape:

Wozniacki at her peak was winning about half of her matches vs these players who were nowhere near their current level, even the current Petra while below 2011 is much superior to 2009 or 2010, so safe to say even returning to her peak level she would lose the vast majority to them now. Some surfaces returning to her peak form (which I doubt she will anyway) she might have a chance I agree, Kvitova on an outdoor hard court and maybe even clay, Azarenka on clay probably, Sharapova on a slow hard court and maybe an indoor court, but between the three she would usually find 2 she was likely to lose to on each surface.

dencod16
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:42 AM
She just won Korea. What are your faves doing?

Uhmmm... resting after winning Wimbledon-Olympics-US Open...

dencod16
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:45 AM
In 2010 either Clijsters or Serena would have been a worthy Player of the Year. Wozniacki did not deserve to win either award, and the ITF really embarassed themselves by giving it to her.

isn't ITF player of the year based on rankings unlike the WTA Player of the year which is based on overall performance

dencod16
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:47 AM
Whether Caro can win a slam or not depends entirely on two factors: 1) Can she regain her form from late 2010/early 2011? 2) Will Serena continue to dominate? Caro in her old form has a chance anyday against the likes of Sharapova, Vika and Kvitty. Only Serena constitutes an impregnable barrier when playing her best.

I don't think her form in 2010-2011 will be enough for her to win a slam, if it wasn't enough then, more specially now. The problem with her game is that her opponent is the one dictating how the match goes and players are starting to get a hang on how she plays, she needs to improve more.

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:49 AM
Peak Wozniacki lost to a then nobody Kvitova (0 and 2), Zvonareva, Na, Hantuchova, Cibulkova, in slams. Over half of those drubbings. The idea if she simply returned to that form and Serena was out of the way she would waltz to major titles is some lala land in outer space.

PMBH
Sep 25th, 2012, 06:44 AM
Peak Wozniacki lost to a then nobody Kvitova (0 and 2), Zvonareva, Na, Hantuchova, Cibulkova, in slams. Over half of those drubbings. The idea if she simply returned to that form and Serena was out of the way she would waltz to major titles is some lala land in outer space.

Obviously Woz won't be able to 'waltz to major titles'. But the topic of this thread is if she'll be able to win a slam at all. My argument is that she has a good chance of winning at least one major in the future simply because the opposition isn't scary. Sharapova, Vika etc. are all good players but none of them are capable of dominating for longer periods of time. They are just not that good. Only Serena is but she won't be around forever.

PMBH
Sep 25th, 2012, 06:52 AM
Peak Wozniacki lost to a then nobody Kvitova (0 and 2), Zvonareva, Na, Hantuchova, Cibulkova, in slams. Over half of those drubbings. The idea if she simply returned to that form and Serena was out of the way she would waltz to major titles is some lala land in outer space.

Peak Woz lost to Zvonareva and Li Na when they were at their very best. No shame in that. The defeats to Dani and Domi were the first signs of her (hopefully temporary) decline. The drubbing to Kvitova at Wimby '10 was terrible and difficult to explain other than Kvitova will always be a superior grass court player to Woz. For sure, Caro's only chance of winning a slam will be on hardcourt.

Matt01
Sep 25th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Peak Wozniacki lost to a then nobody Kvitova (0 and 2), Zvonareva, Na, Hantuchova, Cibulkova, in slams. Over half of those drubbings. The idea if she simply returned to that form and Serena was out of the way she would waltz to major titles is some lala land in outer space.


And later peak Woz did beat Zvonareva, Kvitova and Hantuchova. And against Li she had MP in a Slam semi. You're just biased and can't see the obvious even it hits you directly on the head :lol:

Geertvg
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:14 PM
And later peak Woz did beat Zvonareva, Kvitova and Hantuchova. And against Li she had MP in a Slam semi. You're just biased and can't see the obvious even it hits you directly on the head :lol:

Yes, you're not biased at all are you. lol. Fact is, it's likely there will always be an in form player that is going to crush Woz at a slam. Every time. Like it always has happened so far. Even at first rounds, this year. Now *that* is a :hah::hah:

TigerTim
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:24 PM
A slamless pusher. She has no hope of winning another Manditory even let alone a slam :shrug:

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 03:40 PM
And later peak Woz did beat Zvonareva, Kvitova and Hantuchova. And against Li she had MP in a Slam semi. You're just biased and can't see the obvious even it hits you directly on the head :lol:

What is obvious. That peak Woz was so good that matchups vs Zvonareva and an old Hantuchova were a toss up which she could easily lose or win, and while the heavy underdog vs such players she could even come close to beating the legendary Li Na once. :lol: That at her peak she didnt even make a slam final (her only one was before her peak) when the WTA was at its all time worst, and which it has already improved alot since. Last I checked Wozniacki is still slamless and isnt coming any closer. It is you who fail to see the obvious.

Wiggly
Sep 25th, 2012, 04:22 PM
The best she can hope is to become the David Ferrer of the WTA while the Big Four clean up everything.

saint2
Sep 25th, 2012, 04:25 PM
Who knows ? We need to remember that the level of WTA is decreasing. If Schiavone can win a slam, why Wozniacki can't ? Window for her is wide open.

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 04:43 PM
You are forgetting the level of the WTA is no longer decreasing but finally again increasing. Schiavone winning a slam happened at its epic low, but you arent going to see a Schiavone like player win a slam in a long time. The major events this year were all won by proven champions. The major events since Wimbledon 2010 were won by Serena, Clijsters, Kvitova, Sharapova, Azarenka, Stosur, and Na. The only one of those Wozniacki is arguably better than is Stosur and Na, but Stosur and Na when they are on their games have more game than Wozniacki does, everyone but a Woztard will recognize this, they just arent anywhere near as consistent as peak Wozniacki was, but their A-games are easily higher and more capable of winning a slam semi or final vs a tough opponent.

Anyway Schiavone won a French which is the easiest slam to win these days since there are no good clay courters really. Wozniacki isnt the clay courter a top form Schiavone is so cant capatilize on that. Wozniacki got slaughtered by Schiavone at that French which Schiavone won months before her ascent to #1. If winning a slam when even Schiavone can is so easy why didnt World #2 Wozniacki beat Schiavone rather than lose 6-3, 6-2 and go on to do it herself instead.

Olórin
Sep 25th, 2012, 04:54 PM
So, after going on a rant in last week's thread about how Li and Stosur didn't deserve to be in the top 3 for 2011 because they did nothing apart from their Slam wins, you seriously think Serena was the real #1 in 2010 when she did LITERALLY nothing outside of her 2 Slam wins? :rolls: Hilarious.


Hardly a rant, and I did say Li could be considered in the top 3 for 2011 - but interesting to see you attempt to follow every Willytard post so closely. Yes, Serena was THE or a favourite for everything she entered and the other candidate for POY missed a slam and the clay season while Serena missed the last four months and final slam of the year. So a fail of a comparison from you, as to be expected.

As usual you use words like "most people" when you really just mean "my-depressed-deluded-self". I think Kim or Serena has a good claim for best/#1 player of 2010. Obviously Kim snatched that title beyond all doubt after the AO.

mistymore
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:00 PM
Well atleast the WTA named Kim Player of the Year instead of Wozniacki. Too bad the ITF didnt award it to Serena (or perhaps Kim also). In Wozniacki's defense while for me she was clearly the #3 of 2010, she atleast was a more reasonable #1 than 2011. You could atleast make a case for her deserving her #1 in 2010, even though most would disagree. In 2011 Kvitova's year was so far above hers in everyways, that it was probably the all time embarassment in the ranking systems history. Even the much famed consistency argument goes down the toilet when Petra had a higher win % than Wozniacki by a tiny margin, both displayed mediocre consistency that year. Thankfully every governing body overuled the computer and unaminously awarded Petra all Player of the Year honors in sweeping fashion.

Matt01
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Yes, you're not biased at all are you. lol. Fact is, it's likely there will always be an in form player that is going to crush Woz at a slam. Every time. Like it always has happened so far. Even at first rounds, this year. Now *that* is a :hah::hah:


Childish much? :baby:

Geertvg
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Childish much? :baby:

Not any more childish than being biased yourself, and then having the nerve to call someone else totally biased. Or bad repping someone because someone said sth bad about your favourite player.

NashaMasha
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:27 PM
Fact is, it's likely there will always be an in form player that is going to crush Woz at a slam. Every time. Like it always has happened so far. Even at first rounds, this year. Now *that* is a

for the players like Caro or Aga ranking in top 4 is vital . Being ranked 1-4 they have a chance that tough players (for them) will flop before reaching them in Quarters and Semis.

Matt01
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Not any more childish than being biased yourself, and then having the nerve to call someone else totally biased. Or bad repping someone because someone said sth bad about your favourite player.


I was only posting facts in my post. But I guess that is already enough to be called biased by the Woz haters. :weirdo:

nfl46
Sep 25th, 2012, 05:45 PM
If anything, she'll only win ONE slam before her career is over. At the rate she's going, I don't see that happening.

samsam4087
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:07 PM
How will she perform in 2013?

caros defender
Dec 29th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Caro will win the golden grand slam in 2016. She will then retire and produce several hideous babies with mcilroy.

samsam4087
Dec 30th, 2012, 12:45 AM
Caro will win the golden grand slam in 2016. She will then retire and produce several hideous babies with mcilroy.

:lol::lol::lol:

The biggest dream in 2012!!!

traralgon
Jan 20th, 2013, 06:29 PM
It's not impossible that she'll win one. I mean it's not like many promising youngsters are coming through (apart from Robson).

samsam4087
Jan 21st, 2013, 03:46 AM
She lost again. She is definitely overrated.

JeMa
Jan 21st, 2013, 03:52 AM
I thought this when she was #1 in the world, now I just wonder whether she will win a match nowadays.

samsam4087
Jan 21st, 2013, 07:22 AM
I thought this when she was #1 in the world, now I just wonder whether she will win a match nowadays.

I think she will never win a slam.

:worship::worship::worship:

ZeroSumGame
Jan 21st, 2013, 07:54 AM
I gave up on her, her Dad is too controlling, he almost always feels like running out on court to coach her during slams :lol:

The big hitters are Caro's nemesis, Serena, Maria, Vika, Petra, Lisicki, etc ...nowadays she even manages to lose to Pervak :lol:

Tenis Srbija
Jan 21st, 2013, 08:03 AM
Was she ever supposed to win a GS? :scratch: