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Tech1
Mar 28th, 2010, 08:41 AM
Elena Dementieva Must Cut The Parental Cord


By Franklin L. Johnson (http://www.tennisnow.com/Members/starhelix.aspx)

(March 27, 2010) The highly-anticipated rematch between Justine Henin and Elena Dementieva failed to live up to the pre-match hype in Miami (http://www.tennisnow.com/Live-Tennis-Scores.aspx) last night.

Henin displayed too much game and too much guile to be troubled by Dementieva and dispatched the fifth seed 6-3, 6-2 at the Sony Ericsson Open (http://www.tennisnow.com/Live-Tennis-Scores.aspx).

Dementieva has made solid strides in improving her serve and her game, but if she is to take the next step and break through to win her first major she must show some emotional growth on the court.



If you watched the match last night then you saw Dementieva making eye contact with her mother and coach, Vera, after nearly every point.

I think this constant eye contact and emotional give-and-take hurts her overall concentration.

Dementieva (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=54) tends to be too dependent on her mother's approval and empathy. The love shared between them is extraordinary, but her mom has to do what all parents need to do. She has to let her daughter go and grow up.

Elena is a fighter of the highest degree: if you saw her Wimbledon match against Serena Williams (http://www.tennisnow.com/2010_News/Shoes_Racquet/Serena_Williams_Tennis.aspx) last summer or her win over Serena in Sydney in January then you understand what I mean when I praise her fighting spirit.

The reality is Dementieva won't be able to improve her capacity to play and win close matches until she cuts the mama-daughter umbilical cord. I'm sorry to say it, but it's the truth.

Mr. Williams slowly but deliberately moved out of the lime light to allow Venus (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=51&threadid=136) and Serena (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=50) to stand on their own two feet. It was a transition which was almost imperceptible, unless you followed the Williams family exploits on a daily basis. If you notice now, Oracene Price, Venus and Serena's mother, nearly always wears sunglasses during her daughter's (day) matches as if sending a subtle signal that they need to look inside themselves for solutions rather than staring at her.

The sisters are problem solvers on court.

A parent has to gauge when it's the right time to recede and permit a child to blossom properly.

Personally, I thought Yuri Sharapov held onto the parental reigns with Maria Sharapova (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=49&threadid=142) a tad too long which, I believe, may have contributed to her over-playing which in turn contributed to her shoulder problems.

This is a very sensitive issue and hard to deal with. The best players are the ones who learn at the earliest possible stage to fight their battles for themselves.

It's time Dementieva (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=54) learned this too.

Franklin L. Johnson is a Tennis Now contributing writer and avid tennis player based in New York. He has covered professional tennis for three decades.

Click here: Elena Dementieva Must Cut The Parental Cord (http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Elena-Dementieva-Must-Cut-The-Parental-Cord.aspx)

geoepee
Mar 28th, 2010, 08:49 AM
Elena Dementieva Must Cut The Parental Cord


By Franklin L. Johnson (http://www.tennisnow.com/Members/starhelix.aspx)

(March 27, 2010) The highly-anticipated rematch between Justine Henin and Elena Dementieva failed to live up to the pre-match hype in Miami (http://www.tennisnow.com/Live-Tennis-Scores.aspx) last night.

Henin displayed too much game and too much guile to be troubled by Dementieva and dispatched the fifth seed 6-3, 6-2 at the Sony Ericsson Open (http://www.tennisnow.com/Live-Tennis-Scores.aspx).

Dementieva has made solid strides in improving her serve and her game, but if she is to take the next step and break through to win her first major she must show some emotional growth on the court.



If you watched the match last night then you saw Dementieva making eye contact with her mother and coach, Vera, after nearly every point.

I think this constant eye contact and emotional give-and-take hurts her overall concentration.

Dementieva (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=54) tends to be too dependent on her mother's approval and empathy. The love shared between them is extraordinary, but her mom has to do what all parents need to do. She has to let her daughter go and grow up.

Elena is a fighter of the highest degree: if you saw her Wimbledon match against Serena Williams (http://www.tennisnow.com/2010_News/Shoes_Racquet/Serena_Williams_Tennis.aspx) last summer or her win over Serena in Sydney in January then you understand what I mean when I praise her fighting spirit.

The reality is Dementieva won't be able to improve her capacity to play and win close matches until she cuts the mama-daughter umbilical cord. I'm sorry to say it, but it's the truth.

Mr. Williams slowly but deliberately moved out of the lime light to allow Venus (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=51&threadid=136) and Serena (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=50) to stand on their own two feet. It was a transition which was almost imperceptible, unless you followed the Williams family exploits on a daily basis. If you notice now, Oracene Price, Venus and Serena's mother, nearly always wears sunglasses during her daughter's (day) matches as if sending a subtle signal that they need to look inside themselves for solutions rather than staring at her.

The sisters are problem solvers on court.

A parent has to gauge when it's the right time to recede and permit a child to blossom properly.

Personally, I thought Yuri Sharapov held onto the parental reigns with Maria Sharapova (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=49&threadid=142) a tad too long which, I believe, may have contributed to her over-playing which in turn contributed to her shoulder problems.

This is a very sensitive issue and hard to deal with. The best players are the ones who learn at the earliest possible stage to fight their battles for themselves.

It's time Dementieva (http://www.tennisnow.com/Forums.aspx?forumid=54) learned this too.

Franklin L. Johnson is a Tennis Now contributing writer and avid tennis player based in New York. He has covered professional tennis for three decades.

Click here: Elena Dementieva Must Cut The Parental Cord (http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Elena-Dementieva-Must-Cut-The-Parental-Cord.aspx)
Elena is turning 29 this year...

If she hasn't learnt how to think independently by now in her career, I fear it may be too late.

Anyway, I agree with the article when it comes to emotional growth and learning how to problem solve on your own..., but as long as Vera isn't coaching from the sideline and is just giving support, I don't see too much wrong with it.

young_gunner913
Mar 28th, 2010, 09:04 AM
If it we're earlier in her career, I'd say cut the cord. Now I just dont really think it matters too much.

kiwialicat
Mar 28th, 2010, 09:10 AM
Oh, what do you call Justine and Carlos then? Does she need to grow up to? :)

I don't think you can win or lose matches just by looking at your parent/coach. You don't get to be a top 10 player without being able to think for yourself on court.

And I doubt Oracene is wearing sunglasses to send a message to Venus or Serena. Wasn't it Serena who said she deliberately doesn't look over anyway?

Lena's problems aren't looking over at her mother all the time, right now it's her serve. Maybe she should work on that first hmmm....

TennisFan66
Mar 28th, 2010, 09:18 AM
Classic over the top reaction from a sports pundits/writer/journo, whatever they call themselves. They can deduct EVERYTHING there is to know about ANYTHING from just ONE match.

Here we have one of the most successful WTA players over the last decade and now in the twilight of her career, its time to cut the ties with her mother?!?!

I rest my case. Elena :hug:

kiwialicat
Mar 28th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Classic over the top reaction from a sports pundits/writer/journo, whatever they call themselves. They can deduct EVERYTHING there is to know about ANYTHING from just ONE match.

Here we have one of the most successful WTA players over the last decade and now in the twilight of her career, its time to cut the ties with her mother?!?!

I rest my case. Elena :hug:

Exactly. I doubt cutting her ties with her mother is going to make her any more successful. Perhaps it was the strong bond and support system she had that made her so successful.

samsam4087
Mar 28th, 2010, 09:52 AM
http://peoples.ru/sport/tennis/dementieva/dementieva_50hi.jpg

:worship::worship::worship:

goldenboi356
Mar 28th, 2010, 10:00 AM
The bias of this article reflect the typical American point of view. Why is the Williams family used as the measure of independence/autonomy? Not every culture accepts and confirms to individualism like America. Elena is Russian and her culture emphasize connection to culture, family, and the like.. It is so disrespectful to Elena and her culture.

goldenboi356
Mar 28th, 2010, 10:01 AM
http://peoples.ru/sport/tennis/dementieva/dementieva_50hi.jpg

Thank you.

tenn_ace
Mar 28th, 2010, 10:07 AM
I said this years ago, but now it is too late.

Midnight_Robber
Mar 28th, 2010, 10:30 AM
The bias of this article reflect the typical American point of view. Why is the Williams family used as the measure of independence/autonomy? Not every culture accepts and confirms to individualism like America. Elena is Russian and her culture emphasize connection to culture, family, and the like.. It is so disrespectful to Elena and her culture.

...But the Williamses are clearly a tight knit clan. They're hardly mainstream America for one thing, and close knit families are hardly 'unique' to Russian culture. Oracene Price travels just about everywhere with them, as does Richard with his wife Lakeisha (save for Australia). Their other sisters are often at their matches to cheer them on, and if one sister falls early, more often than not, the other sister will be in stands cheering. They always play doubles together... and the press is still confounded by the fact that Venus isn't resentful or jealous of Serena and clearly has a "Team Williams" mentality whenever either one of them wins. You'll rarely see either of them play a match where there isn't a family member present. So what in any of this screams "ruthless American individualism"?

Yes, Americans may buy into 'rugged indivdualism' but the Williams family aren't the best example of how that ethos works.

If anything, they've shown that it is possible to come from a very close-knit family who supports you and still be your own person on court and work your way through problems - or in other words it doesn't have to be either/or - one can do and be both. If Elena is failing to think on court and makes the same errors, then her close bond with her mother might not necessarily be the problem here. There could be other reasons behind it.

But it depends on the nature of the bond. Is it a close, but healthy bond or a co-dependent one? If it's the former, then the journalist needs to start looking towards other causes/sources. If it's latter than the criticism *might* be valid. But I don't know enough about Elena to say which it is, either way.

homogenius
Mar 28th, 2010, 10:31 AM
too late

nicidle
Mar 28th, 2010, 11:45 AM
may well blame her dog too but who knows. the match is not shown
talking about if sb watched the match.

hdfb
Mar 28th, 2010, 12:05 PM
Nah I think the love they share as mother and daughter is much more important than increasing chances to win a slam. Lena D won the gold medal. I hope she wins a slam, but the sky won't fall if she doesn't.

DragonFlame
Mar 28th, 2010, 12:22 PM
Nah I think the love they share as mother and daughter is much more important than increasing chances to win a slam. Lena D won the gold medal. I hope she wins a slam, but the sky won't fall if she doesn't.

I tend to agree... If she doesnīt win one iīm not gonna be sad about it. Sheīs had an amazing career. Besides, if vera isnīt there when elena wins a slam it just wouldnīt be the same. :)

DragonFlame
Mar 28th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Oh, what do you call Justine and Carlos then? Does she need to grow up to? :)

Justine has had to deal with many hardships that helped her to grow up and take it to the next level.

Elena has been in a constant savezone, never had that same experience. It isnīt about the looking at the coach, itīs about dealing with troubling lifeissues which elena never seems to have experienced any of. You just feel like that girl is constantly surrounded by an aura of familylove and is clueless about the real world. :lol: I think taking a step back to make a leap forward is a very accurate coming together of a tennischampion.

Anyway, i think for elena it's too late. So lets just see how she deals with it the rest of her career.

Bronx19
Mar 28th, 2010, 12:38 PM
She has spent her entire life travelling the world playing tennis everyday. Tennis is all Elena has ever known, and she relies on her mum for everything else.

Brena
Mar 28th, 2010, 01:13 PM
http://peoples.ru/sport/tennis/dementieva/dementieva_50hi.jpg

:inlove::worship:

Pop-psychologists everywhere. :rolleyes: Elena & Vera are awesome as they are.

Raiden
Mar 28th, 2010, 02:39 PM
Oh, what do you call Justine and Carlos then? Does she need to grow up to?You forgot something: Carlos is not Juju's dad :wavey:

sweetpeas
Mar 28th, 2010, 02:57 PM
Elena and her mother living a American dream..So leave them alone...Homes here and aboard.They can buy anything their little hearts wants..Can this man do that?Living their dreams!Alica Keyes says it the best.

roelc
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:01 PM
If you notice now, Oracene Price, Venus and Serena's mother, nearly always wears sunglasses during her daughter's (day) matches as if sending a subtle signal that they need to look inside themselves for solutions rather than staring at her.


i thought she's just doing that so she could sleep during the matches :lol:

Dandy_Warhol
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:07 PM
TOO LATE :o

Elena has/had a stellar career. it would be good if she wins a slam but i'm not going to be sad if she doesn't. Plus, Lena and Mommy Vera are awesome together :hearts:


Mommy Vera at this thread: http://i42.tinypic.com/2evgoc2.jpg

goldenlox
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:16 PM
This is how she enjoys her life. She wants to travel with her mom.
Maybe she would have won more with a coach, or maybe she would not have enjoyed it and be retired now.

Joe.
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:27 PM
looking at her mother doesnt make her lose matches :rolleyes: i think the love they share is really cute:awww: and it wouldnt be the same if lena won a big tournament and her mother wasnt there :(

Duramont
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Leave Lena and Mommy Vera alone! :angel:

miffedmax
Mar 28th, 2010, 03:54 PM
I dunno. I'm a huge Elena fan and I've said the same thing for years.

Their relationship does bring out the armchair psychologist in everyone, but then again it's a little unusual. I think the real damage comes from Lena's insistence that Vera is her "coach" and the fact this has limited Lena's willingness/ability to work with professionals who might have improved aspects of her game and her mentality when they had the chance.

The real genius of Richard and Oracene is that for all his huffing and puffing about "coaching" the sisters, he and his ex were far more "managers"--doing some coaching, but always willing to call in pros like Macci and others to focus on the serious tennis development.

Lena's just used a band-aid approach to trying to solve her tennis and psychological issues. I've heard conflicting reports on whether it's Lena herself or her mother who makes her a difficult coaching challenge, but my suspicion is it's the fact that you have to please to mistresses rather than just work with a player. I know that's often a norm in tennis, but it also seems like the really successful players have made a professional break that Lena never has.

I've said it before and I'll say it again as a fan of undying loyalty--Lena and her mom were cute when she was 18. At 28, it's a little creepy.

Brena
Mar 28th, 2010, 04:21 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again as a fan of undying loyalty--Lena and her mom were cute when she was 18. At 28, it's a little creepy.

I've though about that in some other contexts, and I've concluded that what is considered ''normal'' in children-parents relationship differs from country to country. My cousins grew up in the US, some of them later studied abroad and have a lot of international friends, and from observing them it seems to me that those relationships depend on where you're from. I've met people from Western Europe who got literally kicked out of their parents' homes the moment they turned 18 andwere expected to get by on their own. One girl from Belgium even payed rent to her own parents for using her old room in their house. In Serbia, and in the rest of the Balkans, I think, that kind of relationship would have been called sick. Here, it's completely normal to live with your parents and stay very attached to them well into your 30s. When you marry and have your own children, your and your spouse's parents are around all the time. Same goes for the southern Europe - Italy, Greece, Spain... my cousin's boyfrind is Italian, he's 32 and his parents frowned when he wanted to move out and share a flat with his GF, and after a while, he started feeling guilty for ''leaving'' his parents and decided to stay with them. His younger sister moved out a couple of years ago, and beacuse of that the family considers her ''troublesome''.
I have no idea how Russian people feel about children-parents relationships, but from my point of view there's nothing creepy about Elena's attachment to her mum. JJ is the same - she keeps talking about her mum all the time.

Direwolf
Mar 28th, 2010, 04:35 PM
oh please...
ms Oracene Price wears glasses because she sleeps

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



Same thing happened to Elena last year
had a great start to the season...
then faded away till Wimbledon

Slutati
Mar 28th, 2010, 04:39 PM
:inlove::worship:

Pop-psychologists everywhere. :rolleyes: Elena & Vera are awesome as they are.
I agree. :inlove:

Mightymirza
Mar 28th, 2010, 04:40 PM
Justine looks at Carlos after every point.. :shrug: She seems to have won handful of slams :shrug:

miffedmax
Mar 28th, 2010, 05:01 PM
It's worth pointing out that Mommy Vera has NOT been present at some of Lena's biggest wins, BTW.

I'm also aware that there are cultural differences, but this topic has been discussed to DEATH in Elena's forum, and a huge number of her Russian fans are in the "she needs to cut the cords" camp.

Nobody's saying--or at least I'm not saying--she should cut her mother out of her life completely, or even that she should stop traveling with her mother.

But this charade that her mother is her "coach" has held her back IMO and kept her from working through some of the tactical and psychological issues that have kept her from maximizing her potential.

AndreConrad
Mar 28th, 2010, 05:05 PM
I dunno. (...) --Lena and her mom were cute when she was 18. At 28, it's a little creepy.

I've though about that in some other contexts, and I've concluded that what is considered ''normal'' in children-parents relationship differs from country to country.(...)
I have no idea how Russian people feel about children-parents relationships, but from my point of view there's nothing creepy about Elena's attachment to her mum. JJ is the same - she keeps talking about her mum all the time.
Great points and thinking in both of your posts. I feel more Like Max, however. I am not sure if "creepy" is the word I would use, but the fact that 28 years old woman, beautiful and well publicly known had to my knowledge only Max for someone who would resemble any kind of boyfriend sounds kind of strange in any culture. I don't connect negatively Elena's relationship with her mom to her performance on the court, but I connect it to her a little unusual personal life or lack of it.

There is however problem with successful families like Dementieva's, Radwanska's or Wozniacki's where I see an issue where the family seems to be closed to outside influence or advice. There seem to be issues with the games of those players that linger unresolved; they are different for everyone of them. I don't think they ignore the issues, but seem to bang their heads against the wall trying to solve them. Fresh ideas and different perspective could help address those issues.

Mistress of Evil
Mar 28th, 2010, 05:14 PM
Not sure about Lena :shrug:
But Wozniacki should immediatly bump her father and get a real coach.

Protoss
Mar 28th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Great points and thinking in both of your posts. I feel more Like Max, however. I am not sure if "creepy" is the word I would use, but the fact that 28 years old woman, beautiful and well publicly known had to my knowledge only Max for someone who would resemble any kind of boyfriend sounds kind of strange in any culture. I don't connect negatively Elena's relationship with her mom to her performance on the court, but I connect it to her a little unusual personal life or lack of it.

There is however problem with successful families like Dementieva's, Radwanska's or Wozniacki's where I see an issue where the family seems to be closed to outside influence or advice. There seem to be issues with the games of those players that linger unresolved; they are different for everyone of them. I don't think they ignore the issues, but seem to bang their heads against the wall trying to solve them. Fresh ideas and different perspective could help address those issues.
Caro does get some outside coaching from the Addidas development program. :shrug:

I thought Elena had worked with a coach or two besides her mom in the last year or so. :confused:

AnnaK_4ever
Mar 28th, 2010, 05:41 PM
Justine looks at Carlos after every point.. :shrug: She seems to have won handful of slams :shrug:

Carlos is a real coach. Vera, on the other hand, is useless and can't even teach her girl how to cheat to win career defining matches.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Mar 28th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Elena and her mother living a American dream...

Why the north-american dream ? :rolleyes:

It is not possible for them to live the russian dream :rolleyes:

The Dawntreader
Mar 28th, 2010, 06:41 PM
I mean how much technical input has Vera got with Elena. People may draw comparisons to Oracene and Richard Williams, but rightly or wrongly, they have moulded their daughters into tennis players with notorious research and willingness to explore technical elements. According to Serena, Oracene was a huge assistance in learning fundamental tennis technique, to which they could use as a platform to greater ability.

Sure, i think it's slightly endearing that Vera is there as a maternal support, but it never looks beneficial to me. Vera always looks completely fraught, nervous, twitchy, and Elena just hurls abuse and anxiety at her when shit is hitting the fan. This doesn't scream 'coach' to me, it's almost been antagonistic to her development.

It's quite obvious IMO there's been no emotional grooming in her tennis. She still looks like a 10year old girl, looking for her mother to rectify her adult tennis problems. It cannot be done.

Apoleb
Mar 28th, 2010, 07:01 PM
Vera always looks completely fraught, nervous, twitchy, and Elena just hurls abuse and anxiety at her when shit is hitting the fan.

This.

Vera looks like as big a headcase as her daughter. I can't tell who transformed who, or whether it's in-born for both of them, but I sort of understand how watching every Elena match will make you a mental mess.

But regardless, if you're in a tight position in a match and you need support, it's better to have someone strong and reassuring. You don't see Carlos, Oracene or even Yuri looking freaked out and scared to death in tight match situations like Vera does.

tennisbum79
Mar 28th, 2010, 07:22 PM
This.

Vera looks like as big a headcase as her daughter. I can't tell who transformed who, or whether it's in-born for both of them, but I sort of understand how watching every Elena match will make you a mental mess.

But regardless, if you're in a tight position in a match and you need support, it's better to have someone strong and reassuring. You don't see Carlos, Oracene or even Yuri looking freaked out and scared to death in tight match situations like Vera does.
Agree.
Vera is certainly NOT a reassuring presence in the stands.
Especially, when Lena is in tight situations.

If one is a Lena fan, looking at her mother when Dementieva is in trouble will provoke unease, not reassurance.
I feel for miffedmax

Dunlop1
Mar 28th, 2010, 07:47 PM
You don't see Carlos, Oracene or even Yuri looking freaked out and scared to death in tight match situations like Vera does.

You don't see them praying either lol.
Can someone post that gif again?

BoucharDRules
Mar 28th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I think it's too late to cut that cord, but one thing is clear - Elena needs a better gameplan. Losing to Henin is one thing, but losing to weaponless pushers like Radwanker and Oudin is pitiful and unacceptable.

moby
Mar 28th, 2010, 08:09 PM
If you notice now, Oracene Price, Venus and Serena's mother, nearly always wears sunglasses during her daughter's (day) matches as if sending a subtle signal that they need to look inside themselves for solutions rather than staring at her.It's because Oracene needs disguise for when she dozes off, actually. :lol:
but the fact that 28 years old woman, beautiful and well publicly known had to my knowledge only Max for someone who would resemble any kind of boyfriend sounds kind of strange in any culture. Or maybe wants to and is successful at keeping her personal life to herself. Or is secretly lesbian and using Afinogenov as her merkin. Or... :shrug:
You don't see them praying either lol.
Can someone post that gif again?Not a gif, but...

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5276/verar.jpg

I guess you can't really blame her or Demented any more. At this point in her career, every match is make or break. Oracene can afford to doze off in matches. If Venus or Serena loses a match in a Slam, well, they'll only have 7/12 slams, instead of 8/13. Everytime Elena plays in a Slam, it could make the difference between Slamhood or Slamlesshood.

Whatever. She may or may not win a slam even without her mom. Her main problem is that there are other players who are just better than her. Maybe her Mom is the reason she keeps getting back on her feet after so many knocks and disappointments.

Vlover
Mar 28th, 2010, 08:12 PM
If anything, they've shown that it is possible to come from a very close-knit family who supports you and still be your own person on court and work your way through problems - or in other words it doesn't have to be either/or - one can do and be both.
Great post as usual but I want to also highlight the above to compare how other parents have dealt with siblings and family relationships. On the news magazine 60 mins last Sunday where the Bryan brothers were featured in a segment, their parents decided that the better singles player should forfeit his singles and play doubles only for the sake of the less talented brother.:tape: This got me thinking, fortunately for us Richard and Oracene did not make such a decision with their daughters and quite successfully managed the careers of both without any visible animosity or rift in the family dynamics.

As for Lena, what ever works for her. At her age I doubt such a change will make much difference.

tennisbum79
Mar 28th, 2010, 08:13 PM
Not a gif, but...

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5276/verar.jpg
How is Lena supposed to feel looking at this?

Even when Lena is serving for the match, mama Vera would still in this parying position.
What does she think? God does not love the other woman her daughter is competitng against?

Dandy_Warhol
Mar 30th, 2010, 04:25 AM
You don't see them praying either lol.
Can someone post that gif again?

not the praying gif :(

http://i48.tinypic.com/1e2hyv.jpg

miffedmax
Mar 30th, 2010, 11:56 AM
How is Lena supposed to feel looking at this?

Even when Lena is serving for the match, mama Vera would still in this parying position.
What does she think? God does not love the other woman her daughter is competitng against?

Yes. God does not love the other woman as much as Elena. ;):p

Joe.
Mar 30th, 2010, 04:54 PM
How is Lena supposed to feel looking at this?

Even when Lena is serving for the match, mama Vera would still in this parying position.
What does she think? God does not love the other woman her daughter is competitng against?

that is just such a stupid thing to say, its laughable.