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View Full Version : Are the IW results of the "other" girls catching up or a lack of REAL tour talent?


DOUBLEFIST
Mar 17th, 2010, 04:28 AM
Alright, let's put some folks on the record here.

Volcana
Mar 17th, 2010, 04:39 AM
troll

Donny
Mar 17th, 2010, 04:41 AM
troll

Irony?

Nah, j/k, you and (doublefist) are cool peoples.

Arnian
Mar 17th, 2010, 06:08 AM
This is hard to say because like Kim said the other day, the tour does appear to be denser than before, but it's kind of obvious that some players weren't at their best in Indian Wells.
I'm kind of on the fence about this, I'd rather wait to see how the majors turn out and answer this question later in the year.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 17th, 2010, 07:07 AM
troll
:lol:

How is this trolling?

Some people say the girls are catching up, just like they used to say when people were beating Serena and Venus.

Others say, the quality of the tour is STILL poor and the elite players are having an off day.

I'm interested in what the opinions are and who feels this way.

You call something trolling even when players aren't being bashed? What, you trying to pick a fight? Why not just give your opinion. It's a very valid question.

Irony?

Nah, j/k, you and (doublefist) are cool peoples.

Thanks, Donny. :yeah:

goldenlox
Mar 17th, 2010, 07:11 AM
Jankovic was 2008 #1. Caro is about to be #2.
They were the last USO finalists
These are 2 good players.
Lena is top 10 for 300 weeks now.
There are some young players who might breakthru.

fufuqifuqishahah
Mar 17th, 2010, 07:12 AM
tour is competitive right now

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 17th, 2010, 07:54 AM
tour is competitive right now

I agree. I think the tour is very competitive right now. There are several young girls who, on the right day, can beat any of the "elite" players. The one thing these players lack is a slam. They have to learn to cash in when all the chips are on the table. I think - if Serena doesn't win the French :angel: - it will happen there.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 17th, 2010, 09:15 PM
11 to 4, Hmmm.

Anyone else care to go "on record?"

Kipling
Mar 17th, 2010, 09:37 PM
This is sure to draw ire, but IMO of the current players, there are five--Henin, Williamses, Sharapova, Clijsters--who, when healthy, are head and shoulders above the rest and can pretty much determine their own fates against the rest. Yes, they occasionally suffer upsets. IW is a likely place for this because the conditions (i.e. WIND) are so variable. Many IW matches in the afternoon feature 20 or more DFs, as opposed to night matches when the quality of serving is much better. There is no doubt in my mind that the wind plays a major factor in the tennis at IW and can give a "pusher" a much bigger advantage over a power player, especially in daytime matches.

I mean no disrespect to Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Wozniacki, Jankovic, etc., all of whom are excellent players who can win on any given day, and whose strengths can be consistency, movement, defense, court cunning, etc. Those qualities make them formidable on a consistent basis but are probably not quite enough to get the job done against one of the Big Five when those players are playing their best. We can debate that, but that's my theory.

Outside of the Big Five, I think there are a number of players who can fill the ranks of positions 6-20. A lot of those players have the ability--if not yet perhaps the confidence or experience--to be a top ten player. Many of them can boast of big wins over #1s or top fives, or isolated excellent results in majors. What separates Dementieva, Kuzy, Wozy, JJ, etc. is experience, not necessarily skill. How many times do you see the "up and comers" get to the verge of winning but not quite do it. That isn't "choking", it's called learning by experience. As those younger players get some vital experience under their belts, they will eventually close out those matches, be more consistent week to week, and yes, some will replace many of the current top ten mainstays in the rankings. The players that are there now had to learn, too.

So, to sum, rather than see IW as "upset-filled", or a "chokefest", maybe the right word is really "breakthrough"....

Joe.
Mar 17th, 2010, 09:41 PM
i think its just a coincidence, that the top players are all out of form :unsure: (other then venus who didnt play :p )

Ballbasher
Mar 17th, 2010, 10:02 PM
Kleybanova seems to make a move.
Martinez Sanchez has been pulling the occasional good run and is just the typical floater for me, because players are not used to her game.
Zheng has been in good form before.

DOUBLEFIST
Mar 17th, 2010, 11:04 PM
This is sure to draw ire, but IMO of the current players, there are five--Henin, Williamses, Sharapova, Clijsters--who, when healthy, are head and shoulders above the rest and can pretty much determine their own fates against the rest. Yes, they occasionally suffer upsets. IW is a likely place for this because the conditions (i.e. WIND) are so variable. Many IW matches in the afternoon feature 20 or more DFs, as opposed to night matches when the quality of serving is much better. There is no doubt in my mind that the wind plays a major factor in the tennis at IW and can give a "pusher" a much bigger advantage over a power player, especially in daytime matches.

I mean no disrespect to Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Wozniacki, Jankovic, etc., all of whom are excellent players who can win on any given day, and whose strengths can be consistency, movement, defense, court cunning, etc. Those qualities make them formidable on a consistent basis but are probably not quite enough to get the job done against one of the Big Five when those players are playing their best. We can debate that, but that's my theory.

Outside of the Big Five, I think there are a number of players who can fill the ranks of positions 6-20. A lot of those players have the ability--if not yet perhaps the confidence or experience--to be a top ten player. Many of them can boast of big wins over #1s or top fives, or isolated excellent results in majors. What separates Dementieva, Kuzy, Wozy, JJ, etc. is experience, not necessarily skill. How many times do you see the "up and comers" get to the verge of winning but not quite do it. That isn't "choking", it's called learning by experience. As those younger players get some vital experience under their belts, they will eventually close out those matches, be more consistent week to week, and yes, some will replace many of the current top ten mainstays in the rankings. The players that are there now had to learn, too.

So, to sum, rather than see IW as "upset-filled", or a "chokefest", maybe the right word is really "breakthrough"....

So when does this happen, though? I remember when Juju was first hitting the scene. She was known as a choker. Couldn't gather her nerve on the big points but, obviously, she turned the corner. Of course, now I sound like I'm contradicting myself, because I believe the youngers are closing the gap on the "elite," but it just seems like so many during the biggest moments - career changing moments - crumble. Yet, it seems we're seeing that from a few of the "eliite" as well.

fammmmedspin
Mar 17th, 2010, 11:43 PM
i think its just a coincidence, that the top players are all out of form :unsure: (other then venus who didnt play :p )

I think its being going on for so long, so many players have got to the top and gone backwards, too many key players retired early and we now have mmajor players coming back, doing well and then inexplicably joining the ranks of the underperformers, that we really need to know whats gone wrong. If they can't diagnose why people go early, fade inexplicably and can't win what they should, there's zero hope of sorting it out. You expect one or two people to have problems in their careers but the history before now has been that enough play consistently well to have a proper competition. Current QF often look like random names were drawn from a hat and many finals match that quality.

DefyingGravity
Mar 17th, 2010, 11:54 PM
If anything, I expect Indian Wells to be a little crazy due to the conditions, not all the top women are present, and it's a surprisingly low key tournament for being such an important one. 2002 semifinals: 1 was Seles vs. Hingis the other was...an unknown Hantuchova vs. Gagliardi (eek). I feel as though this tournament and Roland Garros are the two spots to look out for breakthroughs just because of the wildly varying conditions and the top players distaste for either the surface or the 4 seasons in one day.

Irute
Mar 18th, 2010, 12:00 AM
They are not only catching up... they are part of the elite. Some people have hard time acknowledging it and keep living in the past.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Mar 18th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Lack of real talent

tennisforadults
Mar 18th, 2010, 12:43 AM
Lack of real talent

I think people who makes these types of statements are either living in the 90s or haven't been reading what the players are saying.

What's 'real' talent? Someone who's going to dominate the field like Roger Federer? Roger can dominate because there's a real gulf between him (and possibly Nadal) and the rest of the playing field. But even he gets defeated on an off day - like he just did by Marcos Baghdatis. An equivalent in the women's tour is Serena Williams but she doesn't play as regularly as Federer.

Outside of Serena, the top 10 has Wozniacki, Safina, Venus, Dementieva, Kuznetsova who have all proved to be very talented and capable players. Then there are Henin and Clijsters.

There's no guarantee they would make it to the later stages of every tournament these days because there are many girls in the top 20 and 30 who are not afraid to play their best and beat them. Kleybanova, Peer, Rezai to name a few. It's a very competitive tour and players like Ivanovic and Chakvetadze who cannot string a few good results together find themselves falling down the ranks quickly.

Personally I think it's a very exciting time for the tour because when Serena is not around, the title can go to pretty much anyone in the top 30.

NeoZod19
Mar 18th, 2010, 02:46 AM
The WTA is going downhill!!!! players are so inconsistent. people pays to watch elite players playing their best and they are not getting their money worth for sure!!

hdfb
Mar 18th, 2010, 02:51 AM
All you need to do, is look at who was in the top 10 around 10 years ago. The names you see in that list are head and shoulders above the current top 10.