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View Full Version : ED's Paris title is not a real Premier title!


Andreas
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:41 PM
She beat:
Pavlyuchenkova, no. 38
Petkovic, no. 49
Oudin, no. 53
Safarova, no. 46

No top 35 players :eek:

At New Haven, Caro beat 3 players with a higher ranking than no. 38 (including no. 10), while she in Eastbourne beat 4 players with a higher rank.

Following one of the many sources to the Caro hate here, mainly from ED fans, this means that Paris does not qualify as a Premier title :eek::eek::eek::bolt::bolt::tape::tape::help::conf used::confused:

InsideOut.
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Justine Henin, Antwerp 2008.

Elwin.
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:46 PM
It's a real premier title, just like Caro's titles at NH and Eastbourne :weirdo:

The level of play in Paris this week was terrific btw.
Bye. *lulz

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Unlike Wozniacki, Lena has proved she's capable to win tournaments with healthy draws as well. That's the difference between the real top-players and Pushniacki.

nicidle
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
I didnt even know it is premier event. anyway.

Break My Rapture
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
People can't accuse Caro of having a cakewalk draw, but Caro fans apparently have the right to accuse Dementieva of the same thing. Ridiculous. :bigwave:

miffedmax
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
And Lena beat nothing but Top 25 players in Sydney, a tougher road than Serena had to win the AO.

You can't control who shows up. All you can do is beat them, no matter who you are. And there are a lot of ED fans who like Caro.

For whatever reason, Caro haters come from all over.

slamchamp
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM
well those players sher beat are better than what their rankings suggest..safarova on form is a top15 player

Petkorazzi
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:49 PM
People can't accuse Caro of having a cakewalk draw, but Caro fans apparently have the right to accuse Dementieva of the same thing. Ridiculous. :bigwave:
:spit:

Mistress of Evil
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Stop the trolling, please:shrug:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:50 PM
Unlike Wozniacki, Lena has proved she's capable to win tournaments with healthy draws as well. That's the difference between the real top-players and Pushniacki.

I was going to say this :worship:

Tennisstar86
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:50 PM
I didnt even know it is premier event. anyway.

yeah....i kind of agree sadly.. the comp was week...I didnt know it was a premier either in fact i saw who was int he draw and saw her name and said "wth is Elena doing in this tournament. :lol: Its not her fault others didnt play it though...

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Make a thread when Wozniacki beats the likes of Hingis , Davenport , Serena , Sharapova , Kuznetsova in Finals :wavey:

nicidle
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:54 PM
Make a thread when Wozniacki beats the likes of Hingis , Davenport , Serena , Sharapova , Kuznetsova in Finals :wavey:

:worship:

sammy01
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:56 PM
im happy for elena but i hate that these players outside the top 35 push her around so easily, yeah she grinds them down in the end, but meh why does she let them jump the gun on her in rallies.

Vaidisova Ruled
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:57 PM
Lucie was playing GOAT tennis. This was a real Premier title

VishaalMaria
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:58 PM
I hate it when people say this.

In this context, it's not Elenas fault no other top players got through. Elena was waiting ready on the other side of the net for anyone.

-Sonic-
Feb 14th, 2010, 04:59 PM
as long as she has the ranking points and gets the cash in the bank, I dont give a shit :)

tough crap, troll.

If it makes you feel better, we'll move one or two of these wins from Sydney to Paris, to even things out - any preferences?

R32H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E7820,00.html) SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E7820,00.html) (ITA)18W6-2 7-5
R16H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E3589,00.html) HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E3589,00.html) (SVK)23W6-2 4-6 6-2
QH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E8108,00.html) (2) SAFINA, DINARA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E8108,00.html) (RUS)2W6-2 6-3
SH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E11289,00.html) (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E11289,00.html) (BLR)7W6-3 6-1
FH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E9044,00.html) (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E9044,00.html) (USA)1W6-3 6-2

miffedmax
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:08 PM
as long as she has the ranking points and gets the cash in the bank, I dont give a shit :)

tough crap, troll.

If it makes you feel better, we'll move one or two of these wins from Sydney to Paris, to even things out - any preferences?

R32H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E7820,00.html) SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E7820,00.html) (ITA)18W6-2 7-5
R16H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E3589,00.html) HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E3589,00.html) (SVK)23W6-2 4-6 6-2
QH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E8108,00.html) (2) SAFINA, DINARA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E8108,00.html) (RUS)2W6-2 6-3
SH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E11289,00.html) (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E11289,00.html) (BLR)7W6-3 6-1
FH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E9044,00.html) (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E9044,00.html) (USA)1W6-3 6-2

Case effin' closed.

LCS
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:13 PM
:haha: Andreas :haha:

EPIC FAIL

Andreas
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:15 PM
as long as she has the ranking points and gets the cash in the bank, I dont give a shit :)

tough crap, troll.

If it makes you feel better, we'll move one or two of these wins from Sydney to Paris, to even things out - any preferences?

R32H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E7820,00.html) SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E7820,00.html) (ITA)18W6-2 7-5
R16H2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E3589,00.html) HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E3589,00.html) (SVK)23W6-2 4-6 6-2
QH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E8108,00.html) (2) SAFINA, DINARA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E8108,00.html) (RUS)2W6-2 6-3
SH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E11289,00.html) (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E11289,00.html) (BLR)7W6-3 6-1
FH2H (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/HeadToHead/0,,12781%7E2018%7E9044,00.html) (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Player/Info/0,,12781%7E9044,00.html) (USA)1W6-3 6-2

I like Elena. She's an incredibly nice person in fact ;)
My problem is not Elena's win. She deserved it. What really bothers me is the double standards. Apparently we only look at rankings of opponents when it comes to the talk about whether titles are deserved or not. It seems to have been difficult for some tennis fans to accept Caro's premium titles. It's a fact that Caro did face higher ranked opponents than Elena did. So I'm just trying to make people see this from two sides.

Monzanator
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:16 PM
This thread is embarassing, Wozniacki/Dementieva haters throwing gutter left, right & centre :o :rolleyes:

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:19 PM
18 top-tenners Dementieva defeated en route to her 16 titles:
S.Williams (5), Safina (3), Rubin (2), Henin, Davenport, Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Ivanovic, Hantuchova, Azarenka, Radwanska

2 top-tenners Wozniacki defeated en route to her 6 titles:
Radwanska, Pennetta

P.S.
I just noticed -- each time Lena defeated Serena she went on to win the whole tournament :lol:

goldenlox
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Lena just drew Henin in round 2.
Sometimes you draw a tough match, sometimes you dont
It all evens out

Anabelcroft
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:22 PM
19 top-tenners Dementieva defeated en route to her 16 titles:
S.Williams (5), Safina (3), Rubin (2), Henin, Davenport, Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Ivanovic, Hantuchova, Azarenka, Radwanska

2 top-tenners Wozniacki defeated en route to her 6 titles:
Radwanska, Pennetta

P.S.
I just noticed -- each time Lena defeated Serena she went on to win the whole tournament :lol:

Andreas,that just tells everything! :wavey: So,in fact she beat more top 10 players on road to the title than she has titles ;)

PalomaPiccaso
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:31 PM
Umm we will see next week when Caro loses in her first match. :lol: Elena has had some tough draws over the years, she has won some epic matches, she has more than proven herself as a high caliber player. What has Caro done to prove that she is the number 3 player in the world? Cake draws and a lot of pushing! People do not like Caro for the various reasons: She has not proven herself to be worthy of the number 3 rank, she has cheated in her matches(see Australian Open VS LI), she is melodramatic(see Doha 09 Year ending Champs), her game is horrible to watch(see her push in every match, return the ball back in the middle of the court) and last but not least some of her fans are very annoying(see Andreas).:wavey:

By the way this thread is :o.

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:34 PM
I'm interested to see what Caro's list will look like when she's Dementieva's age in...however many years that is. Quite a few.

Dementieva's age has nothing to do with this, we are judging them by what they've achieved by now.
Besides, Dementieva defeated 3 top-tenners (including Henin and Davenport) to win her very first tour title alone.

Illusionist
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:36 PM
It's not her fault she's the only top10 player playing the event. She earned it! Bravo Lena :kiss:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Although, I don't agree with the OP. I understand his point, as you can't call an easy tournament for one player worthless and then praise it for another player. Especially, when you use the players past resume. To call Caroline a shit player is insulting to Dementieva because their h2h are essentially equal.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:40 PM
Dementieva's age has nothing to do with this, we are judging them by what they've achieved by now.
Besides, Dementieva defeated 3 top-tenners (including Henin and Davenport) to win her very first tour title alone.
after how many tries.

Break My Rapture
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:41 PM
To call Caroline a worthy #3 is shit too because she hit 3 winners and 21 unforced errors against SuperNa. :bigwave:

Roookie
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:42 PM
The OP has a point :shrug:

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:49 PM
The OP has a point :shrug:

No he doesn't.
We ridicule Wozniacki not because she wins MM titles but because she wins only MM titles. Dementieva, on the other hand, has won a decent amount of worthy tournaments not to pay attention to weaker titles she picks up here and there. That's the difference between them.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:55 PM
No he doesn't.
We ridicule Wozniacki not because she wins MM titles but because she wins only MM titles. Dementieva, on the other hand, have won a decent amount of worthy tournaments not to pay attention to weaker titles she picks up here and there. That's the difference between them.
So should Venus, Serena, Henin, Kuznetsova, Clijsters and Maria fans all ridicule Elena because she is the suckiest player from that generation and is not good enough to win slams. Would that be fair to her.

PalomaPiccaso
Feb 14th, 2010, 05:59 PM
No he doesn't.
We ridicule Wozniacki not because she wins MM titles but because she wins only MM titles. Dementieva, on the other hand, have won a decent amount of worthy tournaments not to pay attention to weaker titles she picks up here and there. That's the difference between them.

:worship: Yeah and her number 3 is rather debatable, no significant wins, cake draw at US Open, a couple of MM tournaments and draws. How is she number 3 again?
As far as I am concerned she has never proven herself. Elena Dementieva on the other hand has proven herself multiples times.

slk45
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:00 PM
She beat:
Pavlyuchenkova, no. 38
Petkovic, no. 49
Oudin, no. 53
Safarova, no. 46

No top 35 players :eek:

At New Haven, Caro beat 3 players with a higher ranking than no. 38 (including no. 10), while she in Eastbourne beat 4 players with a higher rank.

Following one of the many sources to the Caro hate here, mainly from ED fans, this means that Paris does not qualify as a Premier title :eek::eek::eek::bolt::bolt::tape::tape::help::conf used::confused:^^ this is sour grapes.

But there were some top 35 players in the tournament. Let's see...
In the final, Lena beat Safarova, the player who beat #12 Pennetta, and #22 Peer, and #18 Schiavone. #15 Wickmayer lost to Martic who lost to Szavay who lost to Oudin who lost to Lena (a little bit of sweet revenge for USO). #21 Rezai lost to Petkovic who lost to Lena. #24 Razzano lost to Schnyder who lost to Oudin who lost to Lena.
So the players were there, they just didn't make it through to play Lena.

And Lena beat nothing but Top 25 players in Sydney, a tougher road than Serena had to win the AO.

You can't control who shows up. All you can do is beat them, no matter who you are. And there are a lot of ED fans who like Caro.

For whatever reason, Caro haters come from all over.
Max is right on. You have to beat whoever shows up to play and makes it to your round. It doesn't matter if the players going down before the final are ranked #1 thru #6, or #12 thru #53. When you win the final, you win the title, whether it's a slam, a premiere, or an ITF tourney. And it's real because the tournament is what it is.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:01 PM
So should Venus, Serena, Henin, Kuznetsova, Clijsters and Maria fans all ridicule Elena because she is the suckiest player from that generation and is not good enough to win slams. Would that be fair to her.

This whole message is a complete non-sense

PalomaPiccaso
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:02 PM
So should Venus, Serena, Henin, Kuznetsova, Clijsters and Maria fans all ridicule Elena because she is the suckiest player from that generation and is not good enough to win slams. Would that be fair to her.

What the hell does Caro only winning MM tournaments have to do with Elena's generation. Shit comparison. :rolleyes:
Dumbest post of the week.:help:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
This whole message is a complete non-sense
Of course an Elena fan would see it that way....anything that makes her look bad is nonsense.

Anabelcroft
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
I'm interested to see what Caro's list will look like when she's Dementieva's age in...however many years that is. Quite a few.



Than wait for those years until you can compare the two of them!!!

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:04 PM
What the hell does only winning MM tournaments have to do with Elena's generation. :rolleyes:
Dumbest post of the week.:help:
Look harder maybe you might find the meaning.

Andreas
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:06 PM
What the hell does Caro only winning MM tournaments have to do with Elena's generation. Shit comparison. :rolleyes:
Dumbest post of the week.:help:

This is exactly the point. Caro does not get any credit for her premium wins in New Haven and Eastbourne. 2 tournaments as big as Paris - and Sydney for that matter.

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:06 PM
Look harder maybe you might find the meaning.

It's impossible to find something that has never existed in the first place.

PalomaPiccaso
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:07 PM
Look harder maybe you might find the meaning.

Finding the meaning in your posts makes my head hurt. So no thanks.:kiss:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:09 PM
Of course an Elena fan would see it that way....anything that makes her look bad is nonsense.

Read again your post

You wrote Elena is the suckiest player of her generation . A complete non-sense man
Do I neeed to add someting else ?

Qalahari
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:10 PM
stupid thread...useless...

-Sonic-
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:11 PM
She was due an easy draw after Sydney and AO anyways.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:12 PM
It's impossible to find something that has never existed in the first place.

Finding the meaning in your posts makes my head hurt. So no thanks.:kiss:
Oh so clever....I guess you told me....what will I do with my life now.........This thread is old. I hope the next time a fan of a more accomplished players says Elena sucks, you guys are able to take it.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Read again your post

You wrote Elena is the suckiest player of her generation . A complete non-sense man
Do I neeed to add someting else ?
Compare her to the players I listed, is she not the least decorated? Would those fans of those players have a right to make fun of Lena's accomplishments because she hasn't achieved what their fave has.

oleada
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:14 PM
This is exactly the point. Caro does not get any credit for her premium wins in New Haven and Eastbourne. 2 tournaments as big as Paris - and Sydney for that matter.

Except, this was Caro's road to New Haven:

R32 H2H GALLOVITS, EDINA (ROU) 91 W 6-0 6-0
R16 H2H PAVLYUCHENKOVA, ANASTASIA (RUS) 38 W 6-1 6-4
Q H2H RAZZANO, VIRGINIE (FRA) 17 W 6-4 6-3
S H2H (3) PENNETTA, FLAVIA (ITA) 10 W 6-4 6-1
F H2H VESNINA, ELENA (RUS) 32 W 6-2 6-4

Compare to Elena's road in Sydney:

R32 H2H SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (ITA) 18 W 6-2 7-5
R16 H2H HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (SVK) 23 W 6-2 4-6 6-2
Q H2H (2) SAFINA, DINARA (RUS) 2 W 6-2 6-3
S H2H (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (BLR) 7 W 6-3 6-1
F H2H (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (USA) 1 W 6-3 6-2

Sure, they might get the same points and scores, but there's no way the roads to the title are even comparable. Elena beat more top 10 players in Sydney than Caroline in all of her premier title runs.

Elena can win tournaments in which she faces top players. Caroline has yet to prove that.

dabossK
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Except, this was Caro's road to New Haven:

R32 H2H GALLOVITS, EDINA (ROU) 91 W 6-0 6-0
R16 H2H PAVLYUCHENKOVA, ANASTASIA (RUS) 38 W 6-1 6-4
Q H2H RAZZANO, VIRGINIE (FRA) 17 W 6-4 6-3
S H2H (3) PENNETTA, FLAVIA (ITA) 10 W 6-4 6-1
F H2H VESNINA, ELENA (RUS) 32 W 6-2 6-4

Compare to Elena's road in Sydney:

R32 H2H SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (ITA) 18 W 6-2 7-5
R16 H2H HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (SVK) 23 W 6-2 4-6 6-2
Q H2H (2) SAFINA, DINARA (RUS) 2 W 6-2 6-3
S H2H (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (BLR) 7 W 6-3 6-1
F H2H (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (USA) 1 W 6-3 6-2

Sure, they might get the same points and scores, but there's no way the roads to the title are even comparable. Elena beat more top 10 players in Sydney than Caroline in all of her premier title runs.

Elena can win tournaments in which she faces top players. Caroline has yet to prove that.

True! I think Caro has the least number of top 10 wins in the top 10.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:24 PM
Compare her to the players I listed, is she not the least decorated? Would those fans of those players have a right to make fun of Lena's accomplishments because she hasn't achieved what their fave has.

Being a glory hunter is easy

I donīt care what they say , Im with Elena before her first title

Paris75
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:26 PM
I totally disagree. You can't claim a tournament is or is not a so called Premier tournament just comparing players' ranking. :rolleyes:
The level of a tournament depends, first of all, on the quality of the matches played.
And Razzano-Schnyder, Martic-Wickmayer, Safarova-Schiavone, Dementieva-Petkovic (and others) were really nice matchups even if only a few players are top 20 players. :worship:
I really enjoyed watching Paris matches all week and, it was a great tournament!

-NAJ-
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:28 PM
it's real Premier title!
maybe road to title was easy if you look ranking but that's not her problem.

Uranus
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Unnecessary thread, really :shrug:.

That's how it goes on the WTA Tour these days, period.

miffedmax
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:31 PM
So should Venus, Serena, Henin, Kuznetsova, Clijsters and Maria fans can all ridicule Elena because she is the suckiest player from that generation and is not good enough to win slams. Would that be fair to her.

A fair number of them do, actually. Not to mention fans of players far less accomplished than any of those you named.

Anyhoo, my problem with the OP is the Elena paranoia, whereas like I said, there are actually some Elena fans who like Caro, and a HUGE number of people who are fans of players other than Lena who don't like Caro's for her style of play and bash her accomplishments.

thrust
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Lucie was playing GOAT tennis. This was a real Premier title

I agree, this was a high quality final. Glad Elena won though.

Orbis
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:44 PM
OP has a point, whether people would like to admit it or not. Of course Dementieva won the title fair and square and obviously people can't control the draw they got. Furthermore, Dementieva has been around for a while and is a great player, so no one is questioning her abilities. But the point of this thread is that there are definitely double standards when dealing with this kind of thing.

Bringing up stuff like "But Dementieva has beaten Kuznetsova, Davenport, Hingis!!!!!!" etc isn't really that relevant since the point of comparison is Dementieva's Paris title and Wozniacki's other premier titles. They both won their titles fair and square-they were the best players in their respective tournaments and you can't discredit either of them for having lower-ranked opponents.

Cookie Power
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:46 PM
To call Caroline a worthy #3 is shit too because she hit 3 winners and 21 unforced errors against SuperNa. :bigwave:

That's 3 more than she usually hits.

Break My Rapture
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:51 PM
That's 3 more than she usually hits.
:spit: true.

Break My Rapture
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Btw, Lena didn't have a cakewalk draw. Lucie was playing like a GOAT the whole week including today's final and Lena had to work really hard to win that title. Caro came across a lot of players who were playing bad against her when she won Eastbourne and New Haven. :(

timafi
Feb 14th, 2010, 06:59 PM
happy Elena won:woohoo: :yeah:

Monzanator
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:05 PM
Except, this was Caro's road to New Haven:

R32 H2H GALLOVITS, EDINA (ROU) 91 W 6-0 6-0
R16 H2H PAVLYUCHENKOVA, ANASTASIA (RUS) 38 W 6-1 6-4
Q H2H RAZZANO, VIRGINIE (FRA) 17 W 6-4 6-3
S H2H (3) PENNETTA, FLAVIA (ITA) 10 W 6-4 6-1
F H2H VESNINA, ELENA (RUS) 32 W 6-2 6-4

Compare to Elena's road in Sydney:

R32 H2H SCHIAVONE, FRANCESCA (ITA) 18 W 6-2 7-5
R16 H2H HANTUCHOVA, DANIELA (SVK) 23 W 6-2 4-6 6-2
Q H2H (2) SAFINA, DINARA (RUS) 2 W 6-2 6-3
S H2H (6) AZARENKA, VICTORIA (BLR) 7 W 6-3 6-1
F H2H (1) WILLIAMS, SERENA (USA) 1 W 6-3 6-2

Sure, they might get the same points and scores, but there's no way the roads to the title are even comparable. Elena beat more top 10 players in Sydney than Caroline in all of her premier title runs.

Elena can win tournaments in which she faces top players. Caroline has yet to prove that.

Elena won her first WTA title at age 22. Wozniacki still has two years 'til she reaches that age and might well go into double figures by then including a Slam which has deprived Dementieva thus far.

Like someone said before current WTA is nothing compared to the one few years ago. Right now only five players stand out above all the odds, Williams sisters, Sharapova, Henin & Clijsters. Everyone else is missing something in their CV, most likely a Slam (Dementieva's antics in this department are beyond any bets now) the same reflects to Jankovic & Safina who reached #1 having not won a Slam (in Safina's case it was a total disaster looking at the finals she'd played). I'm the one who puts Slams above all the mandatory & consistency stuff unlike some who are saying, nevermind the big ones, Madrid, Dubai & Indian Wells are also THAT important. Well, not quite. But nevermind that. That's just my opinion.

Dementieva is more accomplished player then Wozniacki right now, partly because of her age, partly because of the fact she played vs more accomplished players in the past. Currently, with all the respect, Williams sisters, Sharapova, Henin & Clijsters are below their best level which they've shown in the past thanks to one reason or another. But they are still rocking the boat because the next generation hasn't been as effective as should or could have been (then again with all the respect to Jankovic, Ivanovic & Safina). Wozniacki, Azarenka & Radwanska are the 'new' next generation and it's still too early to completely compare them with the likes of Dementieva. I believe that neither of the three I mentioned has reached their best level and still have some areas to improve. If anyone of them will hang around until the age of Dementieva (29, is it?) then the numbers and quality of opponents will improve too, allthough the quality of the tour itself is still nothing like it was in the late 80s/early 90s.

There you go, start the bashing :wavey: :lol:

Ballbasher
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:08 PM
I don't particularly like Lena or Caro, but Andreas certainly is right, when he says that TF has double standards for Caro! :shrug:

goldenlox
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:08 PM
If Lena played Flavia in the final, this thread wouldn't exist.
But Lucie outplayed Pennetta, and she has more game than most players ranked 10-25.
She has health and head issues, but plenty of game and she was on form this week

Ferg
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Marion beat 2 top 10 and 1 top 15 for Stanford. :hysteric:

Midnight_Robber
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:12 PM
And Lena beat nothing but Top 25 players in Sydney, a tougher road than Serena had to win the AO.

You can't control who shows up. All you can do is beat them, no matter who you are. And there are a lot of ED fans who like Caro.

For whatever reason, Caro haters come from all over.

Exactly. If the OP had wished that the field had been deeper (rankings-wise) but acknowledged that Elena was the best player there and congratulated her on the win? Fine. But they're trying to invalidate her path to the finals and her tournament win (and dragging Caro into this). I'm also of the opinion that rankings be damned - especially of late. Irrespective of what Lucie's ranking is, when she's playing well top players respect her powerful game and are wary of it. Obsessing on rankings often ignores how well your opponents play.

Shinjiro
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:22 PM
Yes, it is real.


http://s006.radikal.ru/i215/1002/34/9da391402159.jpg

MaBaker
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:23 PM
lol...

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Love a controversial thread that doesn't get blamed on Serena fans.

(Where the hell's the popcorn smiley)

Anyway, Congrats to ED - a well deserved Victory. Lucy was/is heating up and starting to play to potential.

Like others have said, ED's job is simply to beat who shows up in front of her. Period. And that she did.

My question is how this draw rated in strength to the other "premiere" events? Anyone...?

Adal
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:49 PM
http://onyxeffect.com/images/smilies/bsure.gif

Where's some real action in this thread?

Tennisstar86
Feb 14th, 2010, 11:26 PM
So should Venus, Serena, Henin, Kuznetsova, Clijsters and Maria fans all ridicule Elena because she is the suckiest player from that generation and is not good enough to win slams. Would that be fair to her.

umm....this really isnt relevent...but i wanted to reply and say that

Kuznetsova/ Maria are not in venus/Serena/Henin/clijsters age group. :)
And Dementieva cant help the fact she played during the best era in womens tennis.... Time will tell what Caro can accomplish... but it wont be much. Her game can only take her so far.... and i think shes reached her peak...

And Elena is the "best" of the rest for her agem group...... but with winning Gold shes not even the "rest" anymore.......

thegreendestiny
Feb 14th, 2010, 11:35 PM
Safarova played like top 10 in the first set. :shrug:

Matt01
Feb 15th, 2010, 12:04 AM
Safarova played like top 10 in the first set. :shrug:


Yeah, Safarova played very well in this tournament. Ridiculing Wozniacki because she can only win "MM-tournaments" is as stupid as claiming that Paris is not a real Premier title if you ask me.

brickhousesupporter
Feb 15th, 2010, 12:33 AM
Yeah, Safarova played very well in this tournament. Ridiculing Wozniacki because she can only win "MM-tournaments" is as stupid as claiming that Paris is not a real Premier title if you ask me.


Hey Matty :wavey::wavey:

We finally agree on something.

HeninFan_2008
Feb 15th, 2010, 12:39 AM
No doubt ED is great in these smaller events, but always fails in the slams.

goldenlox
Feb 15th, 2010, 12:48 AM
Elena won Tier I's and the Olympic Gold.
It's not like she needs to play Safarova to win a final.

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2010, 01:01 AM
She beat:
Pavlyuchenkova, no. 38
Petkovic, no. 49
Oudin, no. 53
Safarova, no. 46

No top 35 players :eek:

At New Haven, Caro beat 3 players with a higher ranking than no. 38 (including no. 10), while she in Eastbourne beat 4 players with a higher rank.

Following one of the many sources to the Caro hate here, mainly from ED fans, this means that Paris does not qualify as a Premier title :eek::eek::eek::bolt::bolt::tape::tape::help::conf used::confused:
It doesn't matter who Dementieva beat. The prize money and ranking points she won qualifies it as a Premier title. Period.

Volcana
Feb 15th, 2010, 01:38 AM
:help::confused::confused:I can understand why you're confused. The new system is unclear. Miami is a called 'Premier' event, and so is Eastourne. One needs a kind of equivalence table.$4.5 million = Requiredb

$2.0 million Premier - Tier I

$0.6 - 1.0 million Premier = Tier II

$220,000 = Tier III
In Sydney and Eastbourne, you're talking about Tier II events. YOu can get Tier II lvel events where you don;t beatanybody in the top 30, because sometimes there are only two or three to thirty players to begin with. Whereas Rogers Cup, for example, equates legitemately to an old Tier I. Or Dubai in 2008.

Saying Dementieva's win a Sydney isn't legit because of the strength of the oppoents is exactly like saying Wozniacki's run to the US Open final wasn't legit,because of the strength of the opponents.

No wonder you're confused.

GracefulVenus
Feb 15th, 2010, 01:43 AM
It's a real premier title, just like Caro's titles at NH and Eastbourne :weirdo:

The level of play in Paris this week was terrific btw.
Bye. *lulz

Agreed, those rankings meant nothing. There was some great tennis in Paris this week.

The Witch-king
Feb 15th, 2010, 01:44 AM
Elena won her first WTA title at age 22. Wozniacki still has two years 'til she reaches that age and might well go into double figures by then including a Slam which has deprived Dementieva thus far.

Like someone said before current WTA is nothing compared to the one few years ago. Right now only five players stand out above all the odds, Williams sisters, Sharapova, Henin & Clijsters. Everyone else is missing something in their CV, most likely a Slam (Dementieva's antics in this department are beyond any bets now) the same reflects to Jankovic & Safina who reached #1 having not won a Slam (in Safina's case it was a total disaster looking at the finals she'd played). I'm the one who puts Slams above all the mandatory & consistency stuff unlike some who are saying, nevermind the big ones, Madrid, Dubai & Indian Wells are also THAT important. Well, not quite. But nevermind that. That's just my opinion.

Dementieva is more accomplished player then Wozniacki right now, partly because of her age, partly because of the fact she played vs more accomplished players in the past. Currently, with all the respect, Williams sisters, Sharapova, Henin & Clijsters are below their best level which they've shown in the past thanks to one reason or another. But they are still rocking the boat because the next generation hasn't been as effective as should or could have been (then again with all the respect to Jankovic, Ivanovic & Safina). Wozniacki, Azarenka & Radwanska are the 'new' next generation and it's still too early to completely compare them with the likes of Dementieva. I believe that neither of the three I mentioned has reached their best level and still have some areas to improve. If anyone of them will hang around until the age of Dementieva (29, is it?) then the numbers and quality of opponents will improve too, allthough the quality of the tour itself is still nothing like it was in the late 80s/early 90s.

There you go, start the bashing :wavey: :lol:

have you forgotten that kuznetsova has won as many slams as clijster

LightWarrior
Feb 15th, 2010, 02:50 AM
Well the wta is stupid. They call some former tier I and tier 2 the same : Premier. No wonder it's confusing in people's minds. At least the atp is clear-cut.

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2010, 03:01 AM
Well the wta is stupid. They call some former tier I and tier 2 the same : Premier. No wonder it's confusing in people's minds. At least the atp is clear-cut.
Referring to yourself as "people," eh?

LightWarrior
Feb 15th, 2010, 03:08 AM
Referring to yourself as "people," eh?

Lay off my back. Or I will report you again.

darrinbaker00
Feb 15th, 2010, 03:10 AM
Lay off my back. Or I will report you again.
Be my guest.

Cookie Power
Feb 15th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Lay off my back. Or I will report you again.

And I will report you.

Szavay #1
Feb 15th, 2010, 09:38 AM
She beat:
Pavlyuchenkova, no. 38
Petkovic, no. 49
Oudin, no. 53
Safarova, no. 46

No top 35 players :eek:

At New Haven, Caro beat 3 players with a higher ranking than no. 38 (including no. 10), while she in Eastbourne beat 4 players with a higher rank.

Following one of the many sources to the Caro hate here, mainly from ED fans, this means that Paris does not qualify as a Premier title :eek::eek::eek::bolt::bolt::tape::tape::help::conf used::confused:

have you ever heard of "the high road", caro fan? take it next time! :wavey:

lena :hug:

caro :hug:

Monzanator
Feb 15th, 2010, 03:02 PM
have you forgotten that kuznetsova has won as many slams as clijster

No, I haven't but Kuznetsova is just ahead of Dementieva in # 6 place on my list. Call it best of the rest ;) Her problem is lack of consistency, after all she went winless in 2005 & 2008 and the only title of 2007 was when Szavay withdrew in New Haven after winning the first set. Not to mention her negative finals record (12 - 18). Admittedly she beat Dementieva in US Open final six years ago, so despite having won less tournaments then Elena I rate her higher. One thing about Kuznetsova, all her losses in the finals were against the very best players of the decade (apart from Hantuchova in Indian Wells 2007 but that was the year Daniela made YEC).