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pov
Feb 4th, 2010, 11:51 PM
http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2010/02/the_wtas_savior_caroline_wozniacki_or_yanina_wickm ayer.html


The WTA's saviors: Caroline Wozniacki, Yanina Wickmayer
By Douglas Perry, The Oregonian
February 03, 2010, 5:01AM


The women’s game is in trouble. The Australian Open featured two grizzled, been-there-done-that veterans in the final and two semifinalists who really shouldn’t have a prayer of ever winning a major. I mean no disrespect to China’s Li Na and Zheng Jie, who deserve kudos for their dogged games and the Final Four results that came from them. But both punched above their weight in Australia; an in-form Kim Clijsters or Maria Sharapova or Dinara Safina or Venus Williams, etc., will always run them right off the court and up into the third row. The problem is that the top women aren't in form often enough, and especially not when it matters. As I’ve stated before, a healthy WTA wouldn’t produce, back to back, a U.S. Open champion (Clijsters) and an Australian Open finalist (Justine Henin) who were retired from the game just a couple of months before their two-week Grand Slam runs. If women's professional tennis wants to continue to be taken seriously, something's got to change.

So what do we do to save the WTA from itself? We must direct our best wishes to the next generation. It’s time to give up on the Never-Should-Have-Beens (Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic) and Should-Have-Beens-But-Weren’ts (Safina, Elena Dementieva, Nicole Vaidisova) and put our hopes in some true Might-Yet-Be players who can reignite enthusiasm in the tour (and, oh yeah, consistently play top-notch tennis).

There are a number of promising possibilities, but I will focus on two telegenic women who are currently knocking on the door of Grand Slamdom: Denmark’s Caroline Wozniacki and Belgium’s Yanina Wickmayer, who faced off against each other in last year’s U.S. Open semifinals.

We’ll start with Wozniacki, who pushed herself into the final of that U.S. Open. Her crafty, arrhythmic game reminds me of late-’90s Martina Hingis. In 2006, weary of watching the Marcos Baghdatis-Rafael Nadal semifinal on the big screen outside Wimbledon's Centre Court, I wandered over to the outside courts and stumbled upon the junior girl’s final. There Wozniacki was, poking at Slovakia’s Magdalena Rybarikova like a snotty little brother, smiling all the while. When Rybarikova would curse and throw down her racket in frustration, Wozniacki’s smile only widened. It was still the first set, but it was the smile of a champion. (Sure enough, Wozniacki won the match.)

The knock on the 19-year-old is that she doesn’t have the big shot that can hurt you. This deficiency in Wozniacki’s game is obvious enough, but it’s also been overstated. Wozniacki is 5’ 10” and sturdily built. Her passive, ball-chasing game is a holdover from her juniors career rather than a Michael Chang-like physical necessity. She’s managed to get into the Top Five with that retriever style, and she’s starting to figure out that if she wants to make that last big jump into Serena Land then she’s got to step in and mash the ball.

Perhaps the best reason for plumping for Wozniacki is that she doesn’t suffer from the great, debilitating disease that’s currently ravaging the WTA: Choke-itis. This is one Dane who is blissfully free of indecision. She knows what she wants to do out there and she executes, even in the most trying situations.

The same can be said for Yanina Wickmayer. She dropped out of the clear blue sky last fall to reach the U.S. Open semifinals, but that was no fluke. A little over a week ago, heading into her fourth-round Australian Open match against Henin, I wrote: "She has all the physical tools to make the leap [into the Top Five]. With her long, tensile limbs, her quick feet and her throw-down-the-gauntlet attitude, this 20-year-old is a champion in embryo. It's that last attribute that is most important." I insisted that by the end of the year she would be ranked higher than her countrywomen Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters.

Despite her three-set loss to Henin, I stick by those words. Wickmayer seems like a very nice young woman -- as long as you stay on her good side. She could have, perhaps should have, won that fourth-round match in Melbourne. Which is not to say that she choked. Henin is a great champion and she came up big when she needed to. Wickmayer no doubt took notes. She’s a big, rangy, natural athlete. She’s still quite a ways from reaching her potential, but she’s heading in the right direction -- and fast. Next time she and Henin meet, Wickmayer will be carrying a mallet.

With a little luck, this will be the Year of Dubya -- Wozniacki and Wickmayer. I give the Dane a decent shot at Roland Garros, and I look to Wickmayer to make a serious run at Wimbledon or the U.S. Open. The WTA had better hope I’m right.

-- Douglas Perry

Chrissie-fan
Feb 4th, 2010, 11:57 PM
Something positive about Caro at GM - I'm shocked.

pov
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:15 AM
Something positive about Caro at GM - I'm shocked.
I've actually made other posts favorable to Wozniacki. This wasn't intended to be one of them. It's an article which, apart from his take on the capabilities of Wickmayer and some of his take on Wozniacki, I think is rife with nonsense.

Volcana
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:18 AM
The women’s game is in trouble. The Australian Open featured two grizzled, been-there-done-that veterans in the final
-- Douglas PerryThe author dismisses Serena Williams and Justine Henin with that sentence. Two of the three great players of this generation, and, if you make allowances for the weakness of Australian Open fields pre-1986 or so, possibly two of the best ten female singles players EVER. As for the twin objets of his lust....

Wickmayer - If you're twenty years old and the biggest win of your career is Linz, you don't usually become a big time player. She's the same age as Azarenka. But I don't see a win over a top ten player, much less a big tournament win. Whereas Azarenka, in the last year, has beaten all four of the current highest ranked players on the tour. And won Miami.

But Azarenka hasn't proven she'll be better than Safina yet.

Wozniacki - Learning to hit a kill shot when you never do isn't easy. Learning WHEN to hit a kill shot may be harder. Wozniacki has skills. If you watch her against weaker opposition, she does more than just retrieve. But she's totally reactive. She doesn't control where the other player hits the ball, she depends on her speed to get her there. That's okay. Venus Williams has won a few tournaments, and she's not exactly God's gift to anticipation either. But Venus hits outright winners, and induces weak returns that are easy to kill. CaroWoz does neither.

I think this author is more interested in seeing eye-candy he likes, than tennis that wins slams.

The 2nd Law
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:21 AM
So Ana and JJ are "never should have beens" yet Wozniacki will save the tour.

No words.

Slutati
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:25 AM
We’ll start with Wozniacki, who pushed herself into the final of that U.S.
So so so so so so so so so true. :lol:
No words for Yanina. :tape:

LoveMeansZero
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:28 AM
What a bunch of bull!

Volcana
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:40 AM
So Ana and JJ are "never should have beens" yet Wozniacki will save the tour.I just went back and looked, cause I'm old, and the memory ain't what it used to be.

From Berin 2007 to RG 2008, Ivanovic was ripping up the tour. People forget she made the final of RG 2007. Winning in 2008 was no shock to anybody. She was playing like she'd be a tong time presence in the top five. And then ..... I've never heard an explanation I believed. It's easier to believe she was on some undetectable drug, and went off it, or she was the victim of a sexual assualt, or that she was possessed by aliens and they went home, than to believe a fall-off in form like this was the result of too many photo-shoots, or partying too hard.

At least with JJ we know she tried some ... radical .... training methods that haven't worked out.

Szavay #1
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Should-Have-Beens-But-Weren’ts (Safina, Elena Dementieva, Nicole Vaidisova)

i think dani should be in this group.

Daniel K
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:55 AM
I stopped reading after "Her crafty, arrhythmic game reminds me of late-’90s Martina Hingis."

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:03 AM
WTA Undertakers

sorceress
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:04 AM
I don't know, I think it's a decent article though he doesn't give much credit to Justine or Serena, but he's right about the others.
But he's right, at least where Wickmayer is concerned, she's only going to get tougher and I see her as a very strong threat to GS with experience.

Chakvenus
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:09 AM
i just vomited.
if wozniacki and wickmayer become the future of the WTA i will literally breakdown and stab myself.

young_gunner913
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:12 AM
LMAO. No just no...

PhilePhile
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:18 AM
The article by Douglas Perry is not really about CW or YW (anything we don't know?) but a knock against Serena. Notice how he used the word "champion" four times without associating it to Serena (what is Serena Land?).

pov
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:24 AM
The article by Douglas Perry is not really about CW or YW (anything we don't know?) but a knock against Serena. Notice how he used the word "champion" four times without associating it to Serena (what is Serena Land?).
HFS!! You've just taken Serena Williams fan paranoia to a whoooooooole 'nutha level! :eek:

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:37 AM
I agree with his basic point. The fact that the main challengers to Serena are still coming from her generation is troubling. I don't think that's a slap at Serena, that's a slap at all the players who haven't stepped up and delivered.

I'll admit I'm a little mystified as to why Lena D. (28) is lumped in the same group as Ana and Safina (both of whom are much younger) but whatever.

And I'm not sure why, other than the fact her name doesn't start with a W, Azarenka's not on this list.

But yeah, the basic premise of the article is spot on. And much as I would love to see Lena win a slam, that would hardly revitalize the tour.

LoveMeansZero
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:43 AM
Who is that Douglas Perry? Obviously a nobody who knows nothing about tennis...

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:44 AM
Who needs a revitalized tour anyways ?

I think we should enjoy the last 3-4 years of good tennis , if the future is Wozniacki or Wickmayer that is what I will do

GracefulVenus
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:50 AM
This article is horrible! WTFE

égalité
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:53 AM
I stopped reading after "Her crafty, arrhythmic game reminds me of late-’90s Martina Hingis."

Yes, me too :sobbing:

Although I almost stopped when he said Justine Henin and Serena Williams "been there, done that" veterans.

One wonders whether he ever actually ever watched Martina Hingis play in the late 90s. Their games have almost nothing in common at all. Except a shitty second serve.

Volcana
Feb 5th, 2010, 02:51 AM
I agree with his basic point. The fact that the main challengers to Serena are still coming from her generation is troubling.In a way. But a situation where you had a real elite clay court champion, a real elite grass court champion, and a real elite all-court champion, within two year of age of each other is a bit unique.

Think about it. WHen in the history of the game has a five time slam winner been an afterthought? Age wise, Hingis belongs with this group. Rack it up. That's 31 slam singles titles for a cohort that hasn't reached age 30 yet. This is exactly what Evert-Navratilova did to the generation behind them. Won all their slams. Steffi Graf is THIRTEEN years younger than Martina Navratilova. Chris Evert was eleven years younger than BJK. (I should, perhaps, give Sharapova more credit for winning three slams against this crew. I just hate the 'Great White Hype' thing. Not her fault, I know.)

A typical tennis generation is about five years. But dominant players make their presence felt far longer. The fact that Serena has twelve slam singles titles is nice. For her. The fact that she's been winning slam singles titles for twelve years is bad news. For everybody else.

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 03:12 AM
Yes, but even in those years there were player who threw scares into the Old Guard, like Austin, Mandlikova, Barker and even Jaeger, Bassett, Temesavari, (and a bunch of others--in another thread I dug up a list from the Wimbledon quarters in '78 and there were no fewer than 7 slam winners in the final 8).

Right now, the odds of that happening are slim and none.

And while the rivalry between Martina and Chrissie is justly immortalized, the battles between the reigning Grand Dame of Tennis BJK and the up-and-coming Chris Evert in the early '70s were riveting in their own right. For some of us, that clash was an essential component of the Serena-TOB rivalry, even without the stupid Great White Hype aspect.

Right now, the WTA is in danger of going from Mike Tyson to John Ruiz. Not good. Not good at all.

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 03:28 AM
Here you go, your lineup for Wimby in '78:

Hell, I went back and just picked a slam qf at random from the '70s:

1978 Wimbledon:

Chris Evert
Martina Navratilova
Virginia Wade
Billie Jean King
Marise Kruger
Virginia Ruzic
Evonne Goolagong Cawley
Mima Jausovec

Every one of them except Kreuger is a slam winner.

And Austin, Barker, Stove and a few other pretty amazing names went down in the 4th round.


There's a nice spread, with about half of the contestants being born in the '40s, half in the '50s, and Austin as the baby of the bunch, born in the '60s.

belzebub
Feb 5th, 2010, 04:39 AM
Very true this article.

The outcome of the AO was another letdown for the WTA, let us face it.

Wozniacki and Wickmayer are beacons of hope in dark times....

Caralenko
Feb 5th, 2010, 04:55 AM
So what do we do to save the WTA from itself? We must direct our best wishes to the next generation. It’s time to give up on the Never-Should-Have-Beens (Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic) and Should-Have-Beens-But-Weren’ts (Safina, Elena Dementieva, Nicole Vaidisova)

Fuck off. He doesn't know shit. :)

PhilePhile
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:04 AM
Who is that Douglas Perry? Obviously a nobody who knows nothing about tennis...

That's because he was not really writing about tennis (the game). From his recent article, it starts and ends with the following quotes:

... these amateurs of yore are an entertaining bunch, and nice on the eyes: "the Scandinavian girls, fair-haired and limber, dominating the beaches ... the bearded Danes, Jorgen and Torben Ulrich, looking as if they came straight off Leif Ericson's ship. Others can stir visions simply with their names, exotic and dashing: Monique Salfati, Vincente Zarazua, Heide Schildknecht." One of the protagonists, World No. 3 Lesley Turner, is “a sweet girl, good-humored and cute."

So forget about this week's SA Open in Johannesburg, where the immortal Rajeev Ram is the fifth seed and Yen-Hsu Lu is seventh. You’re in Puerto Rico 45 years ago, listening to the soft slosh of the ocean outside your cabana and the light, playful poof of a white tennis ball being batted back and forth...

Welcome to the good old days on the Caribbean Tennis Tour (http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2010/02/welcome_to_the_good_old_days_on_the_caribbean_tenn is_tour.html)
By Douglas Perry, The Oregonian
February 04, 2010, 4:39AM

Nikkiri
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:22 AM
Fuck off. He doesn't know shit. :)

ikr :rolleyes:

Slutiana
Feb 5th, 2010, 09:57 AM
We’ll start with Wozniacki, who pushed herself into the final of that U.S. Open.

Well at least he got something right. :)

^bibi^
Feb 5th, 2010, 10:02 AM
People from this board should stop writing articles for newspaper really :p

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 5th, 2010, 10:27 AM
http://blog.oregonlive.com/tennis/2010/02/the_wtas_savior_caroline_wozniacki_or_yanina_wickm ayer.html


The WTA's saviors: Caroline Wozniacki, Yanina Wickmayer
By Douglas Perry, The Oregonian
February 03, 2010, 5:01AM


The women’s game is in trouble. The Australian Open featured two grizzled, been-there-done-that veterans in the final and two semifinalists who really shouldn’t have a prayer of ever winning a major. I mean no disrespect to China’s Li Na and Zheng Jie, who deserve kudos for their dogged games and the Final Four results that came from them. But both punched above their weight in Australia; an in-form Kim Clijsters or Maria Sharapova or Dinara Safina or Venus Williams, etc., will always run them right off the court and up into the third row. The problem is that the top women aren't in form often enough, and especially not when it matters. As I’ve stated before, a healthy WTA wouldn’t produce, back to back, a U.S. Open champion (Clijsters) and an Australian Open finalist (Justine Henin) who were retired from the game just a couple of months before their two-week Grand Slam runs. If women's professional tennis wants to continue to be taken seriously, something's got to change.

So what do we do to save the WTA from itself? We must direct our best wishes to the next generation. It’s time to give up on the Never-Should-Have-Beens (Ana Ivanovic, Jelena Jankovic) and Should-Have-Beens-But-Weren’ts (Safina, Elena Dementieva, Nicole Vaidisova) and put our hopes in some true Might-Yet-Be players who can reignite enthusiasm in the tour (and, oh yeah, consistently play top-notch tennis).

There are a number of promising possibilities, but I will focus on two telegenic women who are currently knocking on the door of Grand Slamdom: Denmark’s Caroline Wozniacki and Belgium’s Yanina Wickmayer, who faced off against each other in last year’s U.S. Open semifinals.

We’ll start with Wozniacki, who pushed herself into the final of that U.S. Open. Her crafty, arrhythmic game reminds me of late-’90s Martina Hingis. In 2006, weary of watching the Marcos Baghdatis-Rafael Nadal semifinal on the big screen outside Wimbledon's Centre Court, I wandered over to the outside courts and stumbled upon the junior girl’s final. There Wozniacki was, poking at Slovakia’s Magdalena Rybarikova like a snotty little brother, smiling all the while. When Rybarikova would curse and throw down her racket in frustration, Wozniacki’s smile only widened. It was still the first set, but it was the smile of a champion. (Sure enough, Wozniacki won the match.)

The knock on the 19-year-old is that she doesn’t have the big shot that can hurt you. This deficiency in Wozniacki’s game is obvious enough, but it’s also been overstated. Wozniacki is 5’ 10” and sturdily built. Her passive, ball-chasing game is a holdover from her juniors career rather than a Michael Chang-like physical necessity. She’s managed to get into the Top Five with that retriever style, and she’s starting to figure out that if she wants to make that last big jump into Serena Land then she’s got to step in and mash the ball.

Perhaps the best reason for plumping for Wozniacki is that she doesn’t suffer from the great, debilitating disease that’s currently ravaging the WTA: Choke-itis. This is one Dane who is blissfully free of indecision. She knows what she wants to do out there and she executes, even in the most trying situations.

The same can be said for Yanina Wickmayer. She dropped out of the clear blue sky last fall to reach the U.S. Open semifinals, but that was no fluke. A little over a week ago, heading into her fourth-round Australian Open match against Henin, I wrote: "She has all the physical tools to make the leap [into the Top Five]. With her long, tensile limbs, her quick feet and her throw-down-the-gauntlet attitude, this 20-year-old is a champion in embryo. It's that last attribute that is most important." I insisted that by the end of the year she would be ranked higher than her countrywomen Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters.

Despite her three-set loss to Henin, I stick by those words. Wickmayer seems like a very nice young woman -- as long as you stay on her good side. She could have, perhaps should have, won that fourth-round match in Melbourne. Which is not to say that she choked. Henin is a great champion and she came up big when she needed to. Wickmayer no doubt took notes. She’s a big, rangy, natural athlete. She’s still quite a ways from reaching her potential, but she’s heading in the right direction -- and fast. Next time she and Henin meet, Wickmayer will be carrying a mallet.

With a little luck, this will be the Year of Dubya -- Wozniacki and Wickmayer. I give the Dane a decent shot at Roland Garros, and I look to Wickmayer to make a serious run at Wimbledon or the U.S. Open. The WTA had better hope I’m right.

-- Douglas Perry
Damn I'm over this "The WTA sky is falling" bullshit, this overstated nonsense, "If the WTA wants to continue to be taken seriously, blah, blah, blah..." or whatever the hell he said. The tour is cyclical. Thats the way it works. Their might be a derth of young talent, but sooner or later some will break through. Until then, we're fortunate we have a few all time greats playing the game. We should revel in the talent that there is on tour (yes even Henin ;) ). These younger girls simply aren't breaking through because, newsflash, THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Break throughs are EARNED not given simply because others have been around a while. The fact that the best in the game have been that for a while is a testament to THEIR ability not these young girls deficiencies.

Writers like this are whiny, chronic, malcontents, and a lot of you are co-signin' this bullshit because your faves aren't winnin', plain and simple.


1978 Wimbledon:

Chris Evert
Martina Navratilova
Virginia Wade
Billie Jean King
Marise Kruger
Virginia Ruzic
Evonne Goolagong Cawley
Mima Jausovec



2003 Wimbledon

Serena
JCap
Henin
Kuznetsova
Davenport
Vee
Sylvie Farina Elia
Clijsters

That ain't too bad either.

Kunal
Feb 5th, 2010, 11:30 AM
first of all they are not saviors


and if that tag was to be given to anyone from the new breed then i would give it to wickmayer not wozniacki. although she has been pretty consistent i dont think her game matches up to wickmayer and the latter is just more fun to watch.

Vaidisova Ruled
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:19 PM
Don't worry people. Nicole Vaidisova will save the tour. But she needs to win her first round match this week at a 100.000$ first.

Lord Choc Ice
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:20 PM
Don't worry people. Nicole Vaidisova will save the tour. But she needs to win her first round match this week at a 100.000k first.
Ooh, which 100k is that? :)

Volcana
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:37 PM
And while the rivalry between Martina and Chrissie is justly immortalized, the battles between the reigning Grand Dame of Tennis BJK and the up-and-coming Chris Evert in the early '70s were riveting in their own right. For some of us, that clash was an essential component of the Serena-TOB rivalryCompletely agree, although in the matter of age differential, TOB is more Hana Mandlikova is Chris Evert.

I just don't see anyody coming up with a scary game.

Gregorio87
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:38 PM
This article:help:
The real question is: Who will save the WTA from Wozniacki and Wickmayer?

Vaidisova Ruled
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:51 PM
Ooh, which 100k is that? :)
The oh so prestigious "$100,000 MIDLAND, MI, USA (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=401517)"

Actually, it is not even first round, it's Q1

Shuji Shuriken
Feb 5th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Very true this article.

The outcome of the AO was another letdown for the WTA, let us face it.

Wozniacki and Wickmayer are beacons of hope in dark times....
Gosh...I wish you'd burn in hell already :tape:.

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Damn I'm over this "The WTA sky is falling" bullshit, this overstated nonsense, "If the WTA wants to continue to be taken seriously, blah, blah, blah..." or whatever the hell he said. The tour is cyclical. Thats the way it works. Their might be a derth of young talent, but sooner or later some will break through. Until then, we're fortunate we have a few all time greats playing the game. We should revel in the talent that there is on tour (yes even Henin ;) ). These younger girls simply aren't breaking through because, newsflash, THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Break throughs are EARNED not given simply because others have been around a while. The fact that the best in the game have been that for a while is a testament to THEIR ability not these young girls deficiencies.

Writers like this are whiny, chronic, malcontents, and a lot of you are co-signin' this bullshit because your faves aren't winnin', plain and simple.



2003 Wimbledon

Serena
JCap
Henin
Kuznetsova
Davenport
Vee
Sylvie Farina Elia
Clijsters

That ain't too bad either.

My fave is getting some of the best results of her career.

And 2003 was nearly a decade ago. The fact that it's cyclical doesn't mean that things aren't less than great (though I'm not of the "worst ever school" either).

The other issues that do make me a little concerned is that 1) tennis faces more and more competition from other sports. Athletic girls are much more likely to take up basketball, soccer, and other team sports than they were 20 years ago, especially in the US, but also judging from watching Olympics and Women's World Cup in other sports. 2) After a great leveling in the '60-'80s, when more and more players seemed to be able to make it from middle class and even lower middle class backgrounds, at least from my observations, the sport seems to be becoming more exclusive again. Like so many sports, you have to (at least in the US) make a huge financial commitment to play at a "select" level through either a club or head off to an academy. Yeah, scholarships are out there, and some public facilities still offer amazing programs but...

Offsetting this? Potential growth in Asia and ongoing growth in Eastern Europe. Maybe.

But right now we do appear to be entering a prolonged drought. Of course, there may be a 15-year-old in Shagnhai, or Buenos Aires, or Mumbai or Moscow who's going to make us all sit up and say "Steffi who?"

We'll see. But right now we look to be headed for a major slump once the "old ladies" retire.

madmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:17 PM
WTA saviours?:haha: Thanks for a good laugh...

Ellery
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:30 PM
:rolls:

Hilarious. :weirdo:

The Witch-king
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:41 PM
This article:help:
The real question is: Who will save the WTA from Wozniacki and Wickmayer?

so true.
The worst part is that they are both extremes of the worst kinds of tennis.

The 2nd Law
Feb 5th, 2010, 01:57 PM
I just went back and looked, cause I'm old, and the memory ain't what it used to be.

From Berin 2007 to RG 2008, Ivanovic was ripping up the tour. People forget she made the final of RG 2007. Winning in 2008 was no shock to anybody. She was playing like she'd be a tong time presence in the top five. And then ..... I've never heard an explanation I believed. It's easier to believe she was on some undetectable drug, and went off it, or she was the victim of a sexual assualt, or that she was possessed by aliens and they went home, than to believe a fall-off in form like this was the result of too many photo-shoots, or partying too hard.

At least with JJ we know she tried some ... radical .... training methods that haven't worked out.

Some people (like the author of this article) will argue that Ana did so well in the period you mentioned because of "-insert excuse here-".
I'm the first to admit, she's not the next GOAT, but to label her (and JJ for that matter) a "never should have been" in an article all about how Wozniacki and Wickmayer will save the tour is more than just a little insulting.
Wozniacki, talented as she is (yes, she IS a talented player - no doubt about it), hasn't really set the world on fire apart from taking advantage of a rather fortunate draw at the US Open.

Danii's Law
Feb 5th, 2010, 02:30 PM
Wow. All I can say is wow after reading this.
This person clearly knows nothing about tennis. Its like he just looked at the results from last years US Open and then wrote a totally insane article. Wickmayer, even though I really like her, had a terribly easy run at the US Open and has never beaten a top player. And Wozniacki, although talented, has the most boaring game ever.
Also how could he say anything bad about the final, Henin, one of the best technical players ever, on the comeback trail, against the world number one.
Also Na Li totally deserved her semi spot and Zheng proved at Wimbledon 2008 that she's full of talent.
There may be haters on this forum but no true tennis fan could agree with anything this crackpot says. Its just so uninformed.
And no mention of Azarenka is crazy, she's the only one of the new girls who has a chance in hell of winning a slam.

AnnaK_4ever
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Here you go, your lineup for Wimby in '78:

Hell, I went back and just picked a slam qf at random from the '70s:

1978 Wimbledon:

Chris Evert
Martina Navratilova
Virginia Wade
Billie Jean King
Marise Kruger
Virginia Ruzic
Evonne Goolagong Cawley
Mima Jausovec

Every one of them except Kreuger is a slam winner.

And Austin, Barker, Stove and a few other pretty amazing names went down in the 4th round.


There's a nice spread, with about half of the contestants being born in the '40s, half in the '50s, and Austin as the baby of the bunch, born in the '60s.


2003 Wimbledon

Serena
JCap
Henin
Kuznetsova
Davenport
Vee
Sylvie Farina Elia
Clijsters

That ain't too bad either.

2005 Wimbledon:

Venus
Davenport
Sharapova
Mauresmo
Pierce
Kuznetsova
Petrova
Myskina

and that's with Clijsters losing to Lindsay and Dementieva losing to Myskina in R4, the Oz champion Serena being upset in R3 and the French Open champion Henin being upset in R1.

I've said it many times before: we were damn lucky to witness as many good to great players as we did in 2001-2006.

Yorker
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:15 PM
:lol::lol: All you need to do is read the title and save yourself the time from reading.

Larrybidd
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Damn I'm over this "The WTA sky is falling" bullshit, this overstated nonsense, "If the WTA wants to continue to be taken seriously, blah, blah, blah..." or whatever the hell he said. The tour is cyclical. Thats the way it works. Their might be a derth of young talent, but sooner or later some will break through. Until then, we're fortunate we have a few all time greats playing the game. We should revel in the talent that there is on tour (yes even Henin ;) ). These younger girls simply aren't breaking through because, newsflash, THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Break throughs are EARNED not given simply because others have been around a while. The fact that the best in the game have been that for a while is a testament to THEIR ability not these young girls deficiencies.



Totally agreed. Personally I hate this public panting for the new kids. Me, I respect the veterans who actually have achieved something, rather than worship kids who have nothing to hang their hats on but hope. Someday the new kids will own the tour, but until then the elders are their betters. We oughta admire and respect that fact, not pretend that it means the tour is sh@T.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:02 PM
My fave is getting some of the best results of her career.
The faves part wasn't directed at you, Miffedmax. You've made it clear in other threads that this is your position irrespective of Lena's bangs..., er, results.

However, even in that 2003 scenario. You take out SFE, Jcap and Linds and you still have a damn good field.

GrandMartha
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:31 PM
:lol::lol: All you need to do is read the title and save yourself the time from reading.

exactly what i thought.
Pushniacki is the savior of the WTA :spit:
what a bunch of idiots :rolleyes:

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:51 PM
The faves part wasn't directed at you, Miffedmax. You've made it clear in other threads that this is your position irrespective of Lena's bangs..., er, results.

However, even in that 2003 scenario. You take out SFE, Jcap and Linds and you still have a damn good field.

Still, with all due respect to you and AnnaK (and I do respect you both) that's still going back a ways.

I'd just like to see some new talent emerging, and even though I like Caro, she's a long way from being a savior. Ditto Wickmayer. I think we all agree on that.

And I'm not saying I don't want to see Lena, Justine, Rena, Kim, Vee and some of the others in the mix. Just that I'd like to see some challengers emerge who might have a prayer of beating them. Right now, there's Sveta on a good day. TOB is MIA, Ana is DOA, Safina is proving to be the next Dementieva, (well, there are worse jobs out there) Azarenka has yet to break through...

A little churn is good. We've had a nightmare scenario with horrific churn in the rankings, and none at all in the Slam winners list and it hasn't been good for the game. People who have ranted loud and long about the #1 ranking being a joke and then turning around and saying "Hey, it's all good" are having a bit of a disconnect IMHO.

I, at least, have 'fessed up that I'm having a Gemini moment. But I'm allowed.:p

(Not only am I a Gemini, I'm a Lena fan and we're all bipolar and schizo. And since I'm also a Vee fan, I'm even more biploar and schizo...)

Slutiana
Feb 5th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Still, with all due respect to you and AnnaK (and I do respect you both) that's still going back a ways.

I'd just like to see some new talent emerging, and even though I like Caro, she's a long way from being a savior. Ditto Wickmayer. I think we all agree on that.

And I'm not saying I don't want to see Lena, Justine, Rena, Kim, Vee and some of the others in the mix. Just that I'd like to see some challengers emerge who might have a prayer of beating them. Right now, there's Sveta on a good day. TOB is MIA, Ana is DOA, Safina is proving to be the next Dementieva, (well, there are worse jobs out there) Azarenka has yet to break through...

A little churn is good. We've had a nightmare scenario with horrific churn in the rankings, and none at all in the Slam winners list and it hasn't been good for the game. People who have ranted loud and long about the #1 ranking being a joke and then turning around and saying "Hey, it's all good" are having a bit of a disconnect IMHO.

I, at least, have 'fessed up that I'm having a Gemini moment. But I'm allowed.:p

(Not only am I a Gemini, I'm a Lena fan and we're all bipolar and schizo. And since I'm also a Vee fan, I'm even more biploar and schizo...)
The Brits are comin'. :dance:

Uranus
Feb 5th, 2010, 08:11 PM
Well I don't think the author is particularly wrong about them, but he's just getting carried away. Way too much.
And somehow ignoring the real current forces on the Tour.

miffedmax
Feb 5th, 2010, 08:12 PM
The Brits are comin'. :dance:

You are obviously still crazed with grief. Yes, we know Tati was about to save the tour, but she's done, finished, kaput before she had a chance to erase Graf from the record books.

Nicolás89
Feb 5th, 2010, 08:47 PM
I would like to add Azarenka. :inlove:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 5th, 2010, 10:39 PM
Still, with all due respect to you and AnnaK (and I do respect you both) that's still going back a ways.

I'd just like to see some new talent emerging, and even though I like Caro, she's a long way from being a savior. Ditto Wickmayer. I think we all agree on that.

And I'm not saying I don't want to see Lena, Justine, Rena, Kim, Vee and some of the others in the mix. Just that I'd like to see some challengers emerge who might have a prayer of beating them. Right now, there's Sveta on a good day. TOB is MIA, Ana is DOA, Safina is proving to be the next Dementieva, (well, there are worse jobs out there) Azarenka has yet to break through...

A little churn is good. We've had a nightmare scenario with horrific churn in the rankings, and none at all in the Slam winners list and it hasn't been good for the game. People who have ranted loud and long about the #1 ranking being a joke and then turning around and saying "Hey, it's all good" are having a bit of a disconnect IMHO.

I, at least, have 'fessed up that I'm having a Gemini moment. But I'm allowed.:p

(Not only am I a Gemini, I'm a Lena fan and we're all bipolar and schizo. And since I'm also a Vee fan, I'm even more biploar and schizo...)
and utterly, enigmatically inscrutable. ;)

Seriousy, aside from the fact that I don't think 4 and half years is all that long ago, I think there are other factors than the lack of young talent. The three players you mentioned, Maria, Ana ( :drool: ) and Safina all should have been those ones pushing through, I mean two of them, after all, are slam winners, and one SHOULD have been. Obviously, Maria situation is injury morphed to psyche. Ana more mental stuff, and Safina - come on - she is a sports psychologists wet dream, a career maker. So, I guess what I'm getting at is, right now, with the players who are the ones that would/should be pushing through challenging the elders are struggling MENTALLY/EMOTIONALLY, Safina's recent back issues aside.

Which leads me to where I think the real issue is. The pressure that comes with rising in the ranks and what is at stake - the gold mine of finances and adulation - is greater than it's EVER been and, while many of the aforementioned girls clearly have the game to push through, the mental side has been much slower to evolve. So, in short (finally, "in short" :rolleyes: ) I don't think it the problem is a lack of tennis talent. It's a lack of preparation of how to handle the pressure as the BIGGER picture comes into view. Maria's done before, that's why I believe she's the one that can do it again. As for Ana and Safina, :shrug: But I honestly don't think we'd be having this discussion if these three were realistically challenging for slams these days.

Volcana
Feb 6th, 2010, 04:46 AM
I'm not sure this is universal, but most of the recent plays who won multiple slam singles titles at least made a slam final before age 20.

Serena - 1999 US Open
Venus - 1997 US Open
Henin - 2001 Wimbledon
Hingis - 1997 OZ
Sharapova - 2004 WImbledon
Pierce - 1994 French
Clijsters - 2001 French
Kuznetsova - 2004 US Open

The exceptions are Davenport and Capriati*

*Capriati is an odd case. She made two slam semis and six more slam QF before she was 18. Then, in the next twenty slam, she made one 2nd round, five 1st rounds, and FOURTEEN DNPs.

Lord Choc Ice
Feb 6th, 2010, 07:45 AM
^ You forgot Momo. :D

TheBoiledEgg
Feb 6th, 2010, 09:50 AM
*Capriati is an odd case. She made two slam semis and six more slam QF before she was 18. Then, in the next twenty slam, she made one 2nd round, five 1st rounds, and FOURTEEN DNPs.

just hope Nicole Vaidisova is following Capriati's career............. literally :angel:
all she has to do now is to get a mugshot :bigcry: :help: