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Kunal
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:26 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4876809&name=bodo_peter


Five things we learned Down Under

Monday, February 1, 2010 | Feedback | Print Entry

Is anyone out there in ESPNland still awake? Before we dive into bed to catch up on two weeks' worth of sleep, let's look at five big takeaways from the just-completed Australian Open:

1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.

2. The Australian Open is no longer the stomping grounds for "surprise" finalists or semifinalists. It wasn't so long ago that you could expect a Rainer Schuettler, an Arnaud Clement or a Thomas Johansson to figure in the finals action; a fit, opportunistic guy could do some real damage before the top players rubbed the offseason out of their eyes.

And that was an improvement over previous years, when you couldn't even bank on some top players making the trip Down Under. But it's different now; the guys who are supposed to get to the late stages keep their appointments. Everyone now starts the year in fighting trim.

3. Watch out for those floaters, ladies. The depth of the WTA game continues to improve, and no player who hasn't won at least one major (and some who have) is safe at any stage after the first or second round. Dinara Safina (she gets a partial pass because of her back injury), Jelena Jankovic, Caroline Wozniacki and Ana Ivanovic -- all established stars at the beginning of this year -- have to watch their backs. Victoria Azarenka, Vera Zvonareva, Yanina Wickmayer, Nadia Petrova, maybe even Flavia Pennetta and Maria Kirilenko all have out the long knives. And, oh, what about the two talented Chinese players, Li Na and Zheng Jie? The pecking order in the women's game has never been less stable in that Nos. 3 or 4 through No. 10 category.

4. Rafael Nadal is in trouble. At the risk of sounding flip, there's a serious risk Nadal has lost his mojo -- or at least suffered its diminishment due to his ongoing injury issues. Each week the guy isn't out playing and contending at tournaments takes a little away from his aura -- a glow generated by his ironman stamina and, more importantly, by the way being on a roll event after event now seems to have been so critical to his success as well as his mystique. Nadal's physical problems are bad enough; the mental struggles they forecast also are cause for concern. The best chance Rafa has to turn it around would seem to be a healthy, renewed assault on the European clay-court circuit, picking up where he left off in the spring of 2009, pre-Madrid.

5. Roger Federer is going to be Serena Williams in 2010, and I don't mean he's going to show up at the player party in Miami with his legs bandaged and wearing giant hoop earrings.

In 2009, Williams won three tournaments: the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the season-ending WTA championships. In Melbourne, Federer showed us those recent losses in Basel, London and Doha meant absolutely nothing. His terrific performance at the Australian Open has to convince him that he doesn't need to sweat the small stuff anymore. Showing up for the big events, like Williams does, isn't just possible -- it's the best way for him to extend his already-unsurpassed career.

mykarma
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:33 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4876809&name=bodo_peter


Five things we learned Down Under

Monday, February 1, 2010 | Feedback | Print Entry

Is anyone out there in ESPNland still awake? Before we dive into bed to catch up on two weeks' worth of sleep, let's look at five big takeaways from the just-completed Australian Open:

1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.

2. The Australian Open is no longer the stomping grounds for "surprise" finalists or semifinalists. It wasn't so long ago that you could expect a Rainer Schuettler, an Arnaud Clement or a Thomas Johansson to figure in the finals action; a fit, opportunistic guy could do some real damage before the top players rubbed the offseason out of their eyes.

And that was an improvement over previous years, when you couldn't even bank on some top players making the trip Down Under. But it's different now; the guys who are supposed to get to the late stages keep their appointments. Everyone now starts the year in fighting trim.

3. Watch out for those floaters, ladies. The depth of the WTA game continues to improve, and no player who hasn't won at least one major (and some who have) is safe at any stage after the first or second round. Dinara Safina (she gets a partial pass because of her back injury), Jelena Jankovic, Caroline Wozniacki and Ana Ivanovic -- all established stars at the beginning of this year -- have to watch their backs. Victoria Azarenka, Vera Zvonareva, Yanina Wickmayer, Nadia Petrova, maybe even Flavia Pennetta and Maria Kirilenko all have out the long knives. And, oh, what about the two talented Chinese players, Li Na and Zheng Jie? The pecking order in the women's game has never been less stable in that Nos. 3 or 4 through No. 10 category.

4. Rafael Nadal is in trouble. At the risk of sounding flip, there's a serious risk Nadal has lost his mojo -- or at least suffered its diminishment due to his ongoing injury issues. Each week the guy isn't out playing and contending at tournaments takes a little away from his aura -- a glow generated by his ironman stamina and, more importantly, by the way being on a roll event after event now seems to have been so critical to his success as well as his mystique. Nadal's physical problems are bad enough; the mental struggles they forecast also are cause for concern. The best chance Rafa has to turn it around would seem to be a healthy, renewed assault on the European clay-court circuit, picking up where he left off in the spring of 2009, pre-Madrid.

5. Roger Federer is going to be Serena Williams in 2010, and I don't mean he's going to show up at the player party in Miami with his legs bandaged and wearing giant hoop earrings.

In 2009, Williams won three tournaments: the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the season-ending WTA championships. In Melbourne, Federer showed us those recent losses in Basel, London and Doha meant absolutely nothing. His terrific performance at the Australian Open has to convince him that he doesn't need to sweat the small stuff anymore. Showing up for the big events, like Williams does, isn't just possible -- it's the best way for him to extend his already-unsurpassed career.
SAY WHAT? Is he agreeing with Serena? :eek:

tennisbum79
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:11 AM
[/b]
SAY WHAT? Is he agreeing with Serena? :eek:
I think so... maybe because Sir Federer is heading that way.

As matter of fact, by winning 3 big events last year, Serena has changed the debate to her favor.
No longer do we hear Marry Cailly whine about this.

Or it coulb be that these days, Marry found somehting to beat to death.
Her outrage at the WTA for not suspending Serena for the 2010 Aussie Open.
While at the same time working as a commentator on Serena's matches.
Go figure that one out

Volcana
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:41 AM
[/b]
SAY WHAT? Is he agreeing with Serena? :eek:He's making a very good point in a way no one else said explicitly. Serena validated her 2008-9 slam wins here. It doesn't prove she's head and shoulders above Clijsters and Henin. But it nukes the arguement she wouldnt have won those titles had they been around.


Also, Serena is doing this old school. She's won four of the last six slam singles titles and (I believe) four of the last five slam doubles titles.) We haven't had a player since Nav do that (Except of course, Chuckie :))

Sam L
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:24 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4876809&name=bodo_peter


Five things we learned Down Under

Monday, February 1, 2010 | Feedback | Print Entry

Is anyone out there in ESPNland still awake? Before we dive into bed to catch up on two weeks' worth of sleep, let's look at five big takeaways from the just-completed Australian Open:

1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.

2. The Australian Open is no longer the stomping grounds for "surprise" finalists or semifinalists. It wasn't so long ago that you could expect a Rainer Schuettler, an Arnaud Clement or a Thomas Johansson to figure in the finals action; a fit, opportunistic guy could do some real damage before the top players rubbed the offseason out of their eyes.

And that was an improvement over previous years, when you couldn't even bank on some top players making the trip Down Under. But it's different now; the guys who are supposed to get to the late stages keep their appointments. Everyone now starts the year in fighting trim.

3. Watch out for those floaters, ladies. The depth of the WTA game continues to improve, and no player who hasn't won at least one major (and some who have) is safe at any stage after the first or second round. Dinara Safina (she gets a partial pass because of her back injury), Jelena Jankovic, Caroline Wozniacki and Ana Ivanovic -- all established stars at the beginning of this year -- have to watch their backs. Victoria Azarenka, Vera Zvonareva, Yanina Wickmayer, Nadia Petrova, maybe even Flavia Pennetta and Maria Kirilenko all have out the long knives. And, oh, what about the two talented Chinese players, Li Na and Zheng Jie? The pecking order in the women's game has never been less stable in that Nos. 3 or 4 through No. 10 category.

4. Rafael Nadal is in trouble. At the risk of sounding flip, there's a serious risk Nadal has lost his mojo -- or at least suffered its diminishment due to his ongoing injury issues. Each week the guy isn't out playing and contending at tournaments takes a little away from his aura -- a glow generated by his ironman stamina and, more importantly, by the way being on a roll event after event now seems to have been so critical to his success as well as his mystique. Nadal's physical problems are bad enough; the mental struggles they forecast also are cause for concern. The best chance Rafa has to turn it around would seem to be a healthy, renewed assault on the European clay-court circuit, picking up where he left off in the spring of 2009, pre-Madrid.

5. Roger Federer is going to be Serena Williams in 2010, and I don't mean he's going to show up at the player party in Miami with his legs bandaged and wearing giant hoop earrings.

In 2009, Williams won three tournaments: the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the season-ending WTA championships. In Melbourne, Federer showed us those recent losses in Basel, London and Doha meant absolutely nothing. His terrific performance at the Australian Open has to convince him that he doesn't need to sweat the small stuff anymore. Showing up for the big events, like Williams does, isn't just possible -- it's the best way for him to extend his already-unsurpassed career.

Great read! He's absolutely spot on! Now my comments on his points:

1. Absolutely. This was the one thing I absolutely feared. I thought, okay Serena there is NO WAY you can lose this match or else, I'll have to stop posting on these forums. :lol: With Clijsters winning US Open, Serena HAD TO win this to save face more than anything. But when it was all done, I think I was worrying for nothing. That US Open 2009 for Clijsters will remain an anomaly and I think we'll in time see that.

2. This was obvious for the women a decade ago and the men a few years after that. The OZ has really come into its own. Players can't afford to "skip" Grand Slams anymore. I remember back in the late 80s and even 90s, the way top players regularly skipped the OZ, you felt like you were a world away. I mean, REALLY, it's that far? :lol: And about the off season as well, it's weird but maybe players just can't afford to have an "off season" anymore. Before, it was really an off season, now it's time to catch up to the other guy season.

3. Well this has been obvious for a while now and it's great for women's tennis. Nothing to add.

4. Absolutely. I think this year is going to be very telling. Men's tennis needs Rafa. It needs that Federer-Rafa rivalry desperately. Rafa gone and men's tennis suffers, BIG TIME.

5. Obviously. I think this already started in 2009. And players know that the way tennis is played these days, you just can't afford to be competitive week-in, week-out. That era when you could do that ended around the mid90s with Graf, Agassi, Samprases.

Great read from Bodo.

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:49 AM
Good points. Serena's win validates her '08-'09 run, puts an end to EVERY discussion about who's the greatest of this generation. It's all good.

Kim '09 run was just a fluke. Caught everybody off guard and at her best major, so kudos to her.

Oz is legit now. Completely.

Rafa will need to learn to be more agressive. Defensive playing does that to your body.

:lol: And people were talking about Serena only winning the biggies as a bad thing?

belzebub
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:20 AM
The Sixth thing: Bodo is an Anglo-American Asshole (AAA)

duhcity
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:33 AM
Wasn't Bodo ripping the WTA apart less than a year ago, including Serena?

The second Roger Federer does the same thing, tennis journalists fall in line to follow.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:55 AM
[/B]
SAY WHAT? Is he agreeing with Serena? :eek:
I don't think so. I think he's just stating fact and reserving judgment one way or another, because it's "Rog the Great."

Inktrailer
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:59 AM
It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

StephenUK
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:30 AM
I disagree with Mr Bodo's analysis of the Serena-Belgian situation.

Whereas I would agree that Serena has not been 'keeping the seat warm' for the Belgians, the fact that Kim can win a slam from her in her third event back and Justine can almost do so in her second, indicates how far the tour has been enfeebled in their absence if even the great Ms Williams can be thus challenged. She may still be Queen of the tour but her hold on the throne looks about as secure as Mary Queen of Scots'! For most of 2009 Serena was dismal and virtually sleepwalked her way to the top ranking at the end of the year as Safina managed to engineer the worst ever losses by a No 1 in history in the autumn. Serena's wins at the WTA Championships and here in Australia were excellent and have saved the tour's blushes but it remains to be seen whether she can continue that form, as she seems unable to win successive tournaments.

It is pretty obvious that Serena will not hold on to the top spot if she continues in 2009 form with some proper challengers to her title - the main advantage she holds is not her overall game but the fact that she has played a full year of tournaments, unlike the Belgians who will be playing catchup for most of the year. Henin's close loss to Serena in Miami in 2007 was the prelude to her slam annihilation of her the rest of the year, so her confidence must be sky high if she can come so close to beating her after only two events.

As far as his view of the top 10 is concerned, I am not sure whether it is a question of the depth of the tour or the weakness of the top 10 - a bit of both, I think. With the Belgians, Sharapova and Ivanovic currently out of the top 10, it looks very shorn of slam winning material besides the Williams and Kuzy. It really is about time Azarenka, for instance, burst out of that GS quarter-final rut she is finding herself in, but I wouldn't wait up!

Corswandt
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:34 AM
Wasn't Bodo ripping the WTA apart less than a year ago, including Serena?

The second Roger Federer does the same thing, tennis journalists fall in line to follow.

Very good point.

It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

:lol:

Dini.
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:39 AM
6) The number 1s from ATP and WTA are true number 1s. No ifs and/or buts.

It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

:spit:

Sam L
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:40 AM
Kim can win a slam from her in her third event back and Justine can almost do so in her second, indicates how far the tour has been enfeebled in their absence if even the great Ms Williams can be thus challenged. She may still be Queen of the tour but her hold on the throne looks about as secure as Mary Queen of Scots'!

:spit: Ugh no, that's a bad comparison. Right now, Serena is so far ahead of everybody playing. She may not win ALL the time, but she's definitely the Queen. More like Elizabeth I after the sinking of the Armada, as secure as you can get, but not without vulnerabilities.

Lucemferre
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:48 AM
Wasn't Bodo ripping the WTA apart less than a year ago, including Serena?

The second Roger Federer does the same thing, tennis journalists fall in line to follow.

Welcome to the sexist world. They know they can get away with trashing women but if they do the same to men it will tarnish their already tarnished reputations so they have to suck up to men and praise the same women that they had criticised before.

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:29 PM
It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

You're exaggerating a bit. The only time Serena had horrible, absolutely distasteful losses was during last year's clay season where she was heavily hampered. Before that she was in at least the semis of every event, and during the summer series she met up with a very in form Stosur (you guys can laugh, but Stosur played great and it went three sets). I think Serena also lost to a very in form Petrova at some point in the latter part of the season. She's hardly been bombing out in the first round as you clearly over exaggerate here.

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:35 PM
1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.


I disagree with this. First, he acts like Clijsters was racking up slams before she left. Certainly Serena wasn't keeping the "throne" warm for her, who was nothing more than a one slam wonder a few months ago.

And didn't Pova already dethrone Henin to a degree in AO 08? Or does Bodo forget that?

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:42 PM
It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

unfortunately serena only lost 1st rd in those 3 events in trying to stick it to the wta she couldn't withdraw (which is the same thing they did to bepa and her injured ankle)...plz learn to check her record before sprouting nonsense...:)

and federer is beginning to do the exact thing serena is doing, just serena is doing it better/worse than he is...do you know someone who goes into a major NOT on their best surface 0-3 and gives the champion her toughest match in the qfs?? serena was reaching qfs and sfs of events as well so :wavey:

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:46 PM
I disagree with Mr Bodo's analysis of the Serena-Belgian situation.

Whereas I would agree that Serena has not been 'keeping the seat warm' for the Belgians, the fact that Kim can win a slam from her in her third event back and Justine can almost do so in her second, indicates how far the tour has been enfeebled in their absence if even the great Ms Williams can be thus challenged. She may still be Queen of the tour but her hold on the throne looks about as secure as Mary Queen of Scots'! For most of 2009 Serena was dismal and virtually sleepwalked her way to the top ranking at the end of the year as Safina managed to engineer the worst ever losses by a No 1 in history in the autumn. Serena's wins at the WTA Championships and here in Australia were excellent and have saved the tour's blushes but it remains to be seen whether she can continue that form, as she seems unable to win successive tournaments.

It is pretty obvious that Serena will not hold on to the top spot if she continues in 2009 form with some proper challengers to her title - the main advantage she holds is not her overall game but the fact that she has played a full year of tournaments, unlike the Belgians who will be playing catchup for most of the year. Henin's close loss to Serena in Miami in 2007 was the prelude to her slam annihilation of her the rest of the year, so her confidence must be sky high if she can come so close to beating her after only two events.

As far as his view of the top 10 is concerned, I am not sure whether it is a question of the depth of the tour or the weakness of the top 10 - a bit of both, I think. With the Belgians, Sharapova and Ivanovic currently out of the top 10, it looks very shorn of slam winning material besides the Williams and Kuzy. It really is about time Azarenka, for instance, burst out of that GS quarter-final rut she is finding herself in, but I wouldn't wait up!

Nice and all..and where does that leave Roger then? RG and Wimbledon were his saving grace...much like Serena's YEC and Wimbledon. Roger didn't even reach a mmasters final last year!

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:53 PM
he won madrid bandy ;) but you're right lol

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 12:55 PM
and people forget that kim turning up at the us open at the end of 3 other majors played when everyone has already bruised themselves up during a long season is hardly surprising...she's OBVIOUSLY the freshest player there with enough exp to catch anyone off guard...AGAIN people are acting like kim and jh retired 10 years ago and are playing a new crop of players...it's the SAME wta they left :o we'll see how kimmy kim does when she has to beat herself up with a normal schedule like everyone else

Inktrailer
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:06 PM
unfortunately serena only lost 1st rd in those 3 events in trying to stick it to the wta she couldn't withdraw (which is the same thing they did to bepa and her injured ankle)...plz learn to check her record before sprouting nonsense...:)


You're absolutely right. I've just checked her record and it seems she didn't lose to a ballgirl with a broken racquet:eek:

But you're missing the point, that being that Serena's indifference to non-Slam events has been talked to death and Federer can't be accused of doing the same at this point. He lost to just two players outside the top ten last year - Wawrinka (16) and Benneteau (49). That's it.

He went deep and won Tour titles and until he stars losing to players he has no business losing to, Bodo shouldn't be making that claim on him.

Inktrailer
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:07 PM
he won madrid bandy ;) but you're right lol

He won Cincinnatti too.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:11 PM
O0O0O 4 TITLES!!! 1 MORE THAN SERENA!!!! :weirdo:

i mean....wow!!! this from a man who made winning 9 titles with 5 losses MAX a season the norm, with at least 3 of those to rafa on clay, surely does NOT suggest that he is going the serena route, holding back in regular tour events and playing for the big ones...nope

eta: did you also remember that at one point it was federer and nadal who won all but 1 of the MS events?? now federer wins 2?? only 2?? pffft gimme a break

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:14 PM
You're absolutely right. I've just checked her record and it seems she didn't lose to a ballgirl with a broken racquet:eek:

But you're missing the point, that being that Serena's indifference to non-Slam events has been talked to death and Federer can't be accused of doing the same at this point. He lost to just two players outside the top ten last year - Wawrinka (16) and Benneteau (49). That's it.

He went deep and won Tour titles and until he stars losing to players he has no business losing to, Bodo shouldn't be making that claim on him.

it's hurt serena no worse to be losing to anyone else...they both won 2 slams last year, and fed won 2 MS, serena won YEC with all the top 8 players there...

The Crow
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:19 PM
Bodo's jumping on the Serena bandwagon :lol:



The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do),

Isn't he the one who does this all the time? (with every single player, I might add) :rolleyes:

Inktrailer
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:20 PM
O0O0O 4 TITLES!!! 1 MORE THAN SERENA!!!! :weirdo:

i mean....wow!!! this from a man who made winning 9 titles with 5 losses MAX a season the norm, with at least 3 of those to rafa on clay, surely does NOT suggest that he is going the serena route, holding back in regular tour events and playing for the big ones...nope

eta: did you also remember that at one point it was federer and nadal who won all but 1 of the MS events?? now federer wins 2?? only 2?? pffft gimme a break

good lord, I'll try this again - the article written by Bodo is wrong to put them together right now.

Look at Federer's record for last season - most of his losses were late against Nadal, Djokovic or Murray. The point is about FEDERER not bothering outside of the slams. It's not about Serena.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:28 PM
you're obviously missing the point...

for a man to go from the norm being 9 titles (usually 2 or 3 slams the least) and 5 losses MAX with 3 coming from rafa on clay (means only 2 losses to anyone else for a WHOLE SEASON), to 5 losses coming even BEFORE wimbledon and usually only TWO titles by that same time, means he's OBVIOUSLY letting go of some other titles in between slams...

you make not like serena and her work ethic to be compared to saint roger but it's obvious he's scaling back even if you look at the stats i showed you...both are scaling back in their regular tournaments

Inktrailer
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:40 PM
you're obviously missing the point...

for a man to go from the norm being 9 titles (usually 2 or 3 slams the least) and 5 losses MAX with 3 coming from rafa on clay (means only 2 losses to anyone else for a WHOLE SEASON), to 5 losses coming even BEFORE wimbledon and usually only TWO titles by that same time, means he's OBVIOUSLY letting go of some other titles in between slams...

you make not like serena and her work ethic to be compared to saint roger but it's obvious he's scaling back even if you look at the stats i showed you...both are scaling back in their regular tournaments

Aha, better reply - first, I don't mind Serena; I hate Federer, just for the record.

You're right, federer's dominance isn't what it was, but I question whether that's because he's letting them go, bearing in mind that he's reaching SF or F a lot. I mean, why go that far and then throw it away? It would also have somethign to do with the other top players getting better, in Djokovic, Murray and more recently Del Pot.

However, Serena makes no secret that she doesn't care about winning anything other than Slams and you can see it on court. Federer doesn't say that or show up with a couldn't-care-less demeanor like Serena does sometimes. For that reason I don't think they should be paired, they may both scale back the tournaments they enter but their attitudes when they do play are different.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 01:47 PM
it's not any different....federer doesn't have to say it...

much like how serena easily trounced stosur after losing to her with a df on mp in a regular tournament, is much the same way federer lost to tsonga from 5-1 up in a 3rd set in a ms event and trounced him in a slam sf....and mind you federer gets byes in the 1st rd of ms events so he basically wins the same amt of rds serena wins without getting a bye...in the vika match serena came from from a set and 4-0 down without needing vika to choke, yet she can't beat klara in 3?? really??? federer came back from a set and break down to davydenko after losing the last 2 matches to him...surely THAT says something about his attitude being the same even if federer doesn't EXPRESSLY state it...he often says "yea he beat me in a regular tournament but a slam is different"

The Dawntreader
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:50 PM
Wasn't Bodo ripping the WTA apart less than a year ago, including Serena?

The second Roger Federer does the same thing, tennis journalists fall in line to follow.

It's typical Patriachal journalism- as always.

The journalism spewed out by 'Bozo' and Wertheim always suggest a 'Us and them' attitude between the glittering ATP and the lowly, defunct WTA. Sometimes it feels like BJK's plight was totally in vain.

Vlover
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:57 PM
Whereas I would agree that Serena has not been 'keeping the seat warm' for the Belgians, the fact that Kim can win a slam from her in her third event back and Justine can almost do so in her second, indicates how far the tour has been enfeebled in their absence if even the great Ms Williams can be thus challenged. She may still be Queen of the tour but her hold on the throne looks about as secure as Mary Queen of Scots'
Oh please! Kim had all the advantage going into the USO practicing and well rested for months and no pressure while the other players are all beaten up and tired from playing all year. In any case I view Kim's win as questionable as that foot fault that was called therefore I'm not convinced she would have won anyway plus her AO performance is no indication that she will be any better than when she left.(Serena's Azareka match proves that was not guaranteed) Also many seem to be suffering from convenient amnesia forgetting that Justine actually played the beginning of '08 and didn't quit the end of '07.:tape: Why did you choose to ignore the beatdowns she got in '08 at the AO and Miami before she actually quit and referenced only '07?:confused:

Anyway, Serena has always made it known that being #1 is not her priority but winning the majors because she regards herself the best player regardless of who holds the computer #1. Therefore the Belgians can win as many other tournaments as they want and as long as she gets the majors I'm sure she is happy. Obviously Bodo and others are coming around to accept that is not a bad strategy even for the great Fed.:eek:

Serrayo
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:59 PM
It's typical Patriachal journalism- as always.

The journalism spewed out by 'Bozo' and Wertheim always suggest a 'Us and them' attitude between the glittering ATP and the lowly, defunct WTA. Sometimes it feels like BJK's plight was totally in vain.

Federer did not create a "Who's the real #1?" controversy that plagued the WTA last year. I'm pretty sure people ripped on Serena more because it was so obvious that had she even got to the 2nd or 3rd round of some masters events she would've easily been #1. Also, Serena herself ripped on the WTA with the whole "I'm the real #1" remarks, when again it was her own fault.

Federer reaches QF/SF/F of almost every tournament he enters, and even though his motivation isn't there for the Masters, he still does enough to avoid dropping to #2.

The Dawntreader
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:03 PM
Federer did not create a "Who's the real #1?" controversy that plagued the WTA last year. I'm pretty sure people ripped on Serena more because it was so obvious that had she even got to the 2nd or 3rd round of some masters events she would've easily been #1. Also, Serena herself ripped on the WTA with the whole "I'm the real #1" remarks, when again it was her own fault.

Federer reaches QF/SF/F of almost every tournament he enters, and even though his motivation isn't there for the Masters, he still does enough to avoid dropping to #2.

So he still saves himself for majors?

This has been Serena's message for a couple of seasons now, and as soon as Fed adopts this attitude, it's like the best conceived plan of all time. Not that i want to rag on Federer that much, but he does get away with blatant double standards at times.

And we can't act like Serena never has fulfilled her tour obligations. She won the YEC last year and was mopping up titles in the '08 spring.

tennnisfannn
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:04 PM
As contraversial as it sounds, Seena did not lose the USO to Kim, she was robbed and we will always wonder what if! at 15/30 down it is ridiculous to imagine that serena was already out fo the tourny.
Sometimes, i wonder- what if it was serena who had retired mysteriously swearing she had hit the last ball, I wonder what journalists would be writing about her comeback! me thinks bodo would be more focused on her breaking her word rather than on the comeback.

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:08 PM
Plus..Serena was never reduced to weak crying because she couldn't beat her (only?) rival. Was really weak.

Serrayo
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:09 PM
So he still saves himself for majors?

This has been Serena's message for a couple of seasons now, and as soon as Fed adopts this attitude, it's like the best conceived plan of all time. Not that i want to rag on Federer that much, but he does get away with blatant double standards at times.

And we can't act like Serena never has fulfilled her tour obligations. She won the YEC last year and was mopping up titles in the '08 spring.

Have you heard anything about Serena's lack of effort outside the slams since she became #1?

That was the only reason that she was getting flak for it, not because her attitude was not there.

Also when Fed was #2, did you hear him say "I'm the real #1"?

Serendy Willick
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:24 PM
He's making a very good point in a way no one else said explicitly. Serena validated her 2008-9 slam wins here. It doesn't prove she's head and shoulders above Clijsters and Henin. But it nukes the arguement she wouldnt have won those titles had they been around.


Also, Serena is doing this old school. She's won four of the last six slam singles titles and (I believe) four of the last five slam doubles titles.) We haven't had a player since Nav do that (Except of course, Chuckie :))
I dont see how Serena needed to validate anything:rolleyes:. These people act like a debilitating injury took these girls out of the game. No, these girls choose to sit on the couch and eat cheetos all day, that means Serena earned her slams fair and square. Considering Clijsters garbage performance when the spotlight was on her, I doubt she would've won 4 out of 6 slams.

StephenUK
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:46 PM
Oh please! Kim had all the advantage going into the USO practicing and well rested for months and no pressure while the other players are all beaten up and tired from playing all year. In any case I view Kim's win as questionable as that foot fault that was called therefore I'm not convinced she would have won anyway plus her AO performance is no indication that she will be any better than when she left.(Serena's Azareka match proves that was not guaranteed) Also many seem to be suffering from convenient amnesia forgetting that Justine actually played the beginning of '08 and didn't quit the end of '07.:tape: Why did you choose to ignore the beatdowns she got in '08 at the AO and Miami before she actually quit and referenced only '07?:confused:

Anyway, Serena has always made it known that being #1 is not her priority but winning the majors because she regards herself the best player regardless of who holds the computer #1. Therefore the Belgians can win as many other tournaments as they want and as long as she gets the majors I'm sure she is happy. Obviously Bodo and others are coming around to accept that is not a bad strategy even for the great Fed.:eek:

This is nonsense. The fact is that with such weak opposition, Serena should be embarrassed with only three titles from 2009. Graf or Navratilova would have been in double figures if they had had to face Dinara Safina as their main rival. Federer has had much tougher opponents; whole chunks of the top group haven't gone AWOL from the men's game.

It was obvious in the autumn that Serena was far more interested in hawking her boring autobiography on chatshows than playing tennis, but thanks to Safina's losses to the world 145 and 226, she got the No 1 ranking anyway.

Of course, Justine's record of 2008 was inferior to 2007, but it compares pretty favourably to Serena and Safina 09. She won two events out of 6 (they only won 3 out of 3 times more), never lost to a player out of the top 25 (Zakopalova, Kai-Chen Chang anyone?), and her beatdowns were no worse than some of the ones Serena has had to Elena Dementieva, Venus or Azarenka in the last couple of years.

One thing I will say for Serena is that her form in her last three events is the best run of form she's had for ages - two wins and a final, whereas she only made one non-slam final in the whole of 2009. Maybe it's a sign that Ms Williams can see the finishing post in tennis (2012?) and so wants to concentrate more on getting those last few slams, is more enthused and excited with the return of the Belgians giving her worthy rivals, or whatever. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few months. Personally I hope that the Belgians and Sharapova return to the top 5 asap to challenge her and that we avoid the horrible situation of 2009 where most of the tour events seemed irrelevant and pointless to the players, let alone the general public.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:49 PM
Have you heard anything about Serena's lack of effort outside the slams since she became #1?

That was the only reason that she was getting flak for it, not because her attitude was not there.

Also when Fed was #2, did you hear him say "I'm the real #1"?

yes....

fed has constantly said he's the best...while he and serena may say "yea you deserve your mathematical #1 rank" they always maintain that at their best they are the best...fed is every bit as arrogant as serena, never mistake that, it's why i love them both...

fed always says it's more difficult to beat him in a slam...even said as much to davydenko and murray...or do we ignore the comments he made recently at the AO??? same thing serena says...

and federer gets byes in those ms tournaments so he wins no more matches by getting to the sf than serena does when she gets no bye...if you are losing easily outside of slams and mopping up slams over the same competition, clearly you have changed priorities...even if "he still reaches sf/f", you hardly saw federer or serena lose in ANY tournament during their peak years...a year or couple years in serena's case, of injuries, and their perspective changed...

why do people find it so hard to agree that federer has changed perspective and is doing the same thing serena is doing??

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:55 PM
This is nonsense. The fact is that with such weak opposition, Serena should be embarrassed with only three titles from 2009. Graf or Navratilova would have been in double figures if they had had to face Dinara Safina as their main rival. Federer has had much tougher opponents; whole chunks of the top group haven't gone AWOL from the men's game.

It was obvious in the autumn that Serena was far more interested in hawking her boring autobiography on chatshows than playing tennis, but thanks to Safina's losses to the world 145 and 226, she got the No 1 ranking anyway.

Of course, Justine's record of 2008 was inferior to 2007, but it compares pretty favourably to Serena and Safina 09. She won two events out of 6 (they only won 3 out of 3 times more), never lost to a player out of the top 25 (Zakopalova, Kai-Chen Chang anyone?), and her beatdowns were no worse than some of the ones Serena has had to Elena Dementieva, Venus or Azarenka in the last couple of years.

One thing I will say for Serena is that her form in her last three events is the best run of form she's had for ages - two wins and a final, whereas she only made one non-slam final in the whole of 2009. Maybe it's a sign that Ms Williams can see the finishing post in tennis (2012?) and so wants to concentrate more on getting those last few slams, is more enthused and excited with the return of the Belgians giving her worthy rivals, or whatever. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few months. Personally I hope that the Belgians and Sharapova return to the top 5 asap to challenge her and that we avoid the horrible situation of 2009 where most of the tour events seemed irrelevant and pointless to the players, let alone the general public.


if you would listen to what she says in the book you wouldn't have posted this nonsense...

1: no whole chunk of the top women have gone awol...and why is it that they have gone awol?? when ws were out with injury they hadn't gone awol, the game had simply "passed them by" yet every other player gets an excuse and free pass

2. serena already stated she doesn't push herself to win regular tournaments the same way she does for slams...like it or lump it...she doesn't care of graf and nav would have, otherwise she would have aimed for those numbers and gone after them she would have burned herself out (much like a certain other player who had to "retire" from "mental fatigue")

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:56 PM
the interview particularly before the final was very rich. his comments about murray :spit:
idk why some people can't just accept that fed is extremely arrogant and has changed his approach. oh because it would give credence to the way serena's been doing things for a while now.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:59 PM
exactly....paraphrasing he said:

all the pressure is on him...he's already played one slam final but he lost (to me) and that makes the second one harder since he has to play, you know, ME, in the final (again)...i don't get why people think federer isn't arrogant...is it because he says it in a barry white voice? :confused:

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:02 PM
:lol: Federer sure can play mindgames. But he's a saint I guess.

bmxbandit
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:03 PM
Why in the world do some of you quote the ENTIRE article, only to say something like "Good read" or whatever? You people should know that you can hit REPLY instead of "quote". Also, if you HAVE to quote, it is still unnecessary to quote the whole thing. Only quote the sentence/paragraph you are trying to comment on. Sheesh.

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:05 PM
why do people find it so hard to agree that federer has changed perspective and is doing the same thing serena is doing??

You mean tanking out of Slams, nope, Federer isn't doing that.

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:07 PM
BuTtErFrEnA,

barry white voice :rolls:

i seriously believe it's because fed takes it upon himself to be, for lack of a better word, an advocate for the sport. he's always talking about the sport, how much he loves it and that kind of thing, which is a real nod for the purists. it makes them more protective of fed as well as more accepting of his arrogance. then there's also the gender thing. serena is probably the most forward woman there is in this day and age, especially in terms of her outspokenness. i'm sure a lot of folks would just rather she stayed in her place, feel me?

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:11 PM
You mean tanking out of Slams, nope, Federer isn't doing that.
OMG...IS TANKING REALLY ALL THAT SERENA DOES? She may tank, but what does she do in the next slam? That was the point Bodo is making.

You don't have to call it "tanking," but he's definitely scaling back, not winning as many titles and made it CLEAR that he gears up for the slams by WINNING the AO...like um Serena who lost the Sydney final and went on to win AO.

Bodo said it fine. What's so hard to understand?
In Melbourne, Federer showed us those recent losses in Basel, London and Doha meant absolutely nothing. His terrific performance at the Australian Open has to convince him that he doesn't need to sweat the small stuff anymore. Showing up for the big events, like Williams does, isn't just possible -- it's the best way for him to extend his already-unsurpassed career.

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:11 PM
Plus..Serena was never reduced to weak crying because she couldn't beat her (only?) rival. Was really weak.

I'm sure noone will remember that, I mean, we are talking about Federer, 16 Slams and counting and GOAT.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:14 PM
You mean tanking out of Slams, nope, Federer isn't doing that.

:lol: you again


but oh well...

explain how Federer lost to tsonga from 5-1 up in the third, and then couldn't find a serve, then he obliterates him few days ago....compare it to Serena df-ing on mp to stosur in Stanford last season, and even taking 3 sets in Sydney having to save mp last season, to the total annihilation she gave to stosur...

they both CLEARLY don't have the same concentration, don't put up the same fight as they do in slams...Federer went into RG having lost to Wawrinka ON CLAY and Nole hitting some of the worst fhs, bhs and volleys i've ever seen...even a poster on MTF that was at the match said Fed tanked...Serena went into almost every slam bar wimbledon with everyone talking about how piss poor she is off the ground and she's a serve only player...barring nerves he got when nadal was knocked out and knowing it was his BEST chance to finally win RG, federer toughed it out against the same very people that had started pushing or beating him in normal tournaments...serena doesn't put up the same fight from 4-6 0-4 down in normal tournaments as is evident by the wins players have had against her...

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:27 PM
:lol: you again


but oh well...

explain how Federer lost to tsonga from 5-1 up in the third, and then couldn't find a serve, then he obliterates him few days ago....compare it to Serena df-ing on mp to stosur in Stanford last season, and even taking 3 sets in Sydney having to save mp last season, to the total annihilation she gave to stosur...

they both CLEARLY don't have the same concentration, don't put up the same fight as they do in slams...Federer went into RG having lost to Wawrinka ON CLAY and Nole hitting some of the worst fhs, bhs and volleys i've ever seen...even a poster on MTF that was at the match said Fed tanked...Serena went into almost every slam bar wimbledon with everyone talking about how piss poor she is off the ground and she's a serve only player...barring nerves he got when nadal was knocked out and knowing it was his BEST chance to finally win RG, federer toughed it out against the same very people that had started pushing or beating him in normal tournaments...serena doesn't put up the same fight from 4-6 0-4 down in normal tournaments as is evident by the wins players have had against her...

I know they don't have the same concentration, they are not the only ones btw. But Federer at least tries, he fights a lil bit( all thoses losses were pretty tights) I'm sorry but Serena isn't doing anything after the first set:lol::lol: how many sets did she give to Dementieva or Stosur, look I appreciate Serena's fighting spirit in Majors, but out of this there is nothing.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:37 PM
then isn't losing losing?? no matter how you lose? :scratch: federer doesn't try any harder...if he's losing, like serena, outside of slams, and then handling those same players comfortably inside of slams, then it's the same thing :lol: don't try to quantify it by saying "serena loses easier" or "fed doesn't say he tanks" etc :lol: pathetic

Andy T
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:40 PM
1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

Rubbish; We knew when the Belgians left that they were among the best in the game. That's still true. We also knew that Serena was among the best in the game. That's still true.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

Rubbish; one cheek of Serena's booty has been on the throne for a decade, long before the Belgians retired - in fact before they won a slam.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.

Rubbish; how illogical is it to assume that because Serena beat Justine in Jan 2010 in the latter's second comeback tournament that she would have beaten her in Jan 2009 if Justine had never stopped playing. Also, Kim beat Serena at the Open last year. He contradicts his argument completely.

2. The Australian Open is no longer the stomping grounds for "surprise" finalists or semifinalists. It wasn't so long ago that you could expect a Rainer Schuettler, an Arnaud Clement or a Thomas Johansson to figure in the finals action; a fit, opportunistic guy could do some real damage before the top players rubbed the offseason out of their eyes.

And that was an improvement over previous years, when you couldn't even bank on some top players making the trip Down Under. But it's different now; the guys who are supposed to get to the late stages keep their appointments. Everyone now starts the year in fighting trim.

Surprise finalists at other slams? Soderling, Puerta, Verkerk, Gaudio? Pioline, Nalbandian, Ivanisevic (2001)?

3. Watch out for those floaters, ladies. The depth of the WTA game continues to improve, and no player who hasn't won at least one major (and some who have) is safe at any stage after the first or second round. Dinara Safina (she gets a partial pass because of her back injury), Jelena Jankovic, Caroline Wozniacki and Ana Ivanovic -- all established stars at the beginning of this year -- have to watch their backs. Victoria Azarenka, Vera Zvonareva, Yanina Wickmayer, Nadia Petrova, maybe even Flavia Pennetta and Maria Kirilenko all have out the long knives. And, oh, what about the two talented Chinese players, Li Na and Zheng Jie? The pecking order in the women's game has never been less stable in that Nos. 3 or 4 through No. 10 category.

Fair enough

4. Rafael Nadal is in trouble. At the risk of sounding flip, there's a serious risk Nadal has lost his mojo -- or at least suffered its diminishment due to his ongoing injury issues. Each week the guy isn't out playing and contending at tournaments takes a little away from his aura -- a glow generated by his ironman stamina and, more importantly, by the way being on a roll event after event now seems to have been so critical to his success as well as his mystique. Nadal's physical problems are bad enough; the mental struggles they forecast also are cause for concern. The best chance Rafa has to turn it around would seem to be a healthy, renewed assault on the European clay-court circuit, picking up where he left off in the spring of 2009, pre-Madrid.

Fair enough

5. Roger Federer is going to be Serena Williams in 2010, and I don't mean he's going to show up at the player party in Miami with his legs bandaged and wearing giant hoop earrings.

In 2009, Williams won three tournaments: the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the season-ending WTA championships. In Melbourne, Federer showed us those recent losses in Basel, London and Doha meant absolutely nothing. His terrific performance at the Australian Open has to convince him that he doesn't need to sweat the small stuff anymore. Showing up for the big events, like Williams does, isn't just possible -- it's the best way for him to extend his already-unsurpassed career.[/quote]

Time will tell. On the other hand, you could argue that he's been doing this for a couple of years already.

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:41 PM
I'm sure noone will remember that, I mean, we are talking about Federer, 16 Slams and counting and GOAT.

;) but nadal still owns him. But can't keep it up, so kudos to Roger.

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:43 PM
I'm sure noone will remember that, I mean, we are talking about Federer, 16 Slams and counting and GOAT.

And that 2-5 h2h in major finals against Rafa..bad, bad! The only real champ he faced in a final and he can't beat him.

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:44 PM
then isn't losing losing?? no matter how you lose? :scratch: federer doesn't try any harder...if he's losing, like serena, outside of slams, and then handling those same players comfortably inside of slams, then it's the same thing :lol: don't try to quantify it by saying "serena loses easier" or "fed doesn't say he tanks" etc :lol: pathetic

Actually he is, like I said earlier even though Federer is losing, he gave us a battle, Serena doesn't. I've never seen Federer laughing or not moving when he is losing unlike Serena.

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:45 PM
I know they don't have the same concentration, they are not the only ones btw. But Federer at least tries, he fights a lil bit( all thoses losses were pretty tights) I'm sorry but Serena isn't doing anything after the first set:lol::lol: how many sets did she give to Dementieva or Stosur, look I appreciate Serena's fighting spirit in Majors, but out of this there is nothing.

How did you determine Fed tries harder than Serena outside of slams? What is your scientific method for forming this conclusion?

BlameSerena
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:48 PM
Actually he is, like I said earlier even though Federer is losing, he gave us a battle, Serena doesn't. I've never seen Federer laughing or not moving when he is losing unlike Serena.

I guess your memory is selective then huh? Didn't Serena just battle Rezai in Sydney? She will give you some battles but if people choose to ignore that then it really doesn't matter anyway. And I've seen Serena smile/laugh plenty of times in majors and outside of majors when getting got by a shot or not moving to a ball. The fact that Federer (who is not an outwardly expressive person, certainly to the degree that Serena is) does not laugh certainly does not prove the degree to which he's trying to win a match.

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:49 PM
;) but nadal still owns him. But can't keep it up, so kudos to Roger.

And that 2-5 h2h in major finals against Rafa..bad, bad! The only real champ he faced in a final and he can't beat him.

You're overreacting, Nadal has the edge on clay, otherwise they are tied, too bad Nadal can't even reach US final, cause I'm pretty the H2H in final would have been different but I guess we will never know since Nadal is ALWAYS K.O at the end of every season, heck he is already K.O and we are in February :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:49 PM
there is none...:lol: a loss is a loss...no one knows who "tried harder"

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:50 PM
You're overreacting, Nadal has the edge on clay, otherwise they are tied, too bad Nadal can't even reach US final, cause I'm pretty the H2H in final would have been different but I guess we will never know since Nadal is ALWAYS K.O at the end of every season.

:yawn: you always come back the same way :lol:

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:56 PM
:yawn: you always come back the same way :lol:

Aren't you a Federer fan?

LeRoy.
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:16 PM
Even GODerer is imitating GODRena :eek:

She is the GOAT. :worship: :bowdown:

LeRoy.
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:17 PM
mashafann = Mashaaafan ?


http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images/buttons/blue/report.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/report.php?p=17229012)

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:31 PM
Aren't you a Federer fan?

of course i am :lol: and i love federer because he's knows and believes he's the best and says as much...

and i can admit that federer has started doing like serena..."i'll try to win outside of slams, but you're not getting 100% out of me"...any idiot can see it...you don't go from 9 titles, 5 losses in one season (3 to one man) to 4 titles (only 1 more than serena) and double the losses, without a change in perspective...and as usual, all it takes is one year where he was not in tip top shape physically due to injury (in serena's case a few years) to show that as you get older you have to save something for the big ones...

some people here act as though bozo committed treason or something by comparing the work ethics of serena and federer and daring to say they are doing the same thing

Vlover
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:31 PM
[QUOTE]This is nonsense. The fact is that with such weak opposition, Serena should be embarrassed with only three titles from 2009.
Please keep on point for this discussion about the current active players, Serena and Justine. Why should Serena be embarrassed about winning the same amount of major titles as Justine when she was dominating in '07?:rolleyes: True that is mediocre by Serena standards because she won 4 consecutive majors when she was dominant but 2/4 is still good especially when one is the coveted Wimbledon.;)

It was obvious in the autumn that Serena was far more interested in hawking her boring autobiography on chatshows than playing tennis,
It has never been a secret that Serena has other interest besides tennis and has repeatedly stated her priorities in tennis therefore if you don't want to take her at her word then it is your problem.:tape:

Of course, Justine's record of 2008 was inferior to 2007, but it compares pretty favourably to Serena and Safina 09.
I think you should give the kool aid a break because it is obviously making you high and living in fantasy.:tape: Reality check, not all tournament wins are equal or comparable.:rolleyes: AO+Wimbledon+YEC is not comparable to Madrid+Rome+(insert tournament)that Safina won.:rolleyes:

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few months. Personally I hope that the Belgians and Sharapova return to the top 5 asap to challenge
Yea, everyone has been making their hopes and dreams known since last September. We have now lived the reality in the past month with the Belgians, Serbs, Azarenka and Pova all in the draw plus we got the showdown everyone was hoping for and Serena still prevailed.:banana:
We will see what happens next but for the moment I'm still celebrating.:rocker:

AcesHigh
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:40 PM
More trash from Bodo.

Federer is a father and to be honest, it would take too much effort to dominate the way he did 2004-2007.
Now that he is pretty much the undisputed GOAT, he can relax and take it easy. But let's not negate the wins his opponents have against him in smaller tournaments. His opponents still play superb tennis to beat him.

So it's not like Fed just isn't trying outside slams.. IMHO he just isn't capable of dominating year-round anymore and taking 8 titles a year.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:45 PM
:bs: aces :lol: he was losing before he became a father...what happened then?

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:59 PM
You're overreacting, Nadal has the edge on clay, otherwise they are tied, too bad Nadal can't even reach US final, cause I'm pretty the H2H in final would have been different but I guess we will never know since Nadal is ALWAYS K.O at the end of every season, heck he is already K.O and we are in February :lol:

Most of Serena's losses were on clay too last year, so what gives?

Dini.
Feb 2nd, 2010, 08:10 PM
What Fed and Serena are doing better than anyone in ATP and WTA respectively is peaking for the slams. They play other tournaments too of course, and there's no doubt in my mind that they want to win them. Fed was pretty pissed after the Miami loss last year. So it's not like they don't care for the rest of the season. Serena for example fought massively against Wozniacki last year in Sydney.

I think they listen to their bodies quite well, so they know when not to overplay. Nothing wrong with that. Especially when you've already achieved so much. Fed's already had the season where he won 12 tournaments and lost to only two people. Serena's had her tournament count really high before as well.

They don't have much to prove. Hence the relaxed attitude.

Donny
Feb 2nd, 2010, 08:13 PM
More trash from Bodo.

Federer is a father and to be honest, it would take too much effort to dominate the way he did 2004-2007.
Now that he is pretty much the undisputed GOAT, he can relax and take it easy. But let's not negate the wins his opponents have against him in smaller tournaments. His opponents still play superb tennis to beat him.

So it's not like Fed just isn't trying outside slams.. IMHO he just isn't capable of dominating year-round anymore and taking 8 titles a year.

Federer, who's 28, and has never had a major injury of any sort, can not be expected to dominate week in week out anymore. Yet Serena, who is also 28, and has suffered from a virtual rogues gallery of injuries, is expected to do this? Yea, ok...

If anything, it should be easier for Roger, since every non slam event he plays is 3 sets. The slams are physically the hardest matches for him, yet he does infinitely better there than on the regular tour? Give it up, he's saving himself for what matters. A blind person could see that.

AcesHigh
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:41 PM
Federer, who's 28, and has never had a major injury of any sort, can not be expected to dominate week in week out anymore. Yet Serena, who is also 28, and has suffered from a virtual rogues gallery of injuries, is expected to do this? Yea, ok...

:weirdo: Where did I say that for Serena?

And do you watch Federer in non-slams vs his slam matches? There isn't a significant difference in his level of effort.

Btw, Serena's list of injuries has been highly EXAGGERATED. The knee surgery I will give you, but everyone suffers from knicks and ailments. Proper conditioning and scheduling would have avoided a lot of the trouble Serena has gone through aside from her knee issues.

And no one expects Serena to dominate every week, but some tennis fans would like for her to give a damn outside of 4 weeks. You won't see 1st, 2nd, and 3rd losses on Fed's resume even though the depth of the ATP far outweighs the depth on the women's tour.

Donny
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:53 PM
:weirdo: Where did I say that for Serena?

And do you watch Federer in non-slams vs his slam matches? There isn't a significant difference in his level of effort.

Btw, Serena's list of injuries has been highly EXAGGERATED. The knee surgery I will give you, but everyone suffers from knicks and ailments. Proper conditioning and scheduling would have avoided a lot of the trouble Serena has gone through aside from her knee issues.

And no one expects Serena to dominate every week, but some tennis fans would like for her to give a damn outside of 4 weeks. You won't see 1st, 2nd, and 3rd losses on Fed's resume even though the depth of the ATP far outweighs the depth on the women's tour.

Fed had 3 losses in the third round or earlier in 2008. That's one less than Serena had in 2009.

Volcana
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:56 PM
I dont see how Serena needed to validate anything.For you she didn't. You feel her ability, and duraility, has spoken for itself. She had the physical. emotional and mental ability to keep playing. Fine.

And for people who hate her so much they can't give her credit. For them, she didn't validate anything either.

But there are those in the middle who had doubts about how things would have gone if the Belgians hadn't retired. Some of those people are now convinced Serena would have been winning anyway. And some of them are not. Peter Bodo is among those who had doubts, but those doubts are assauged.

SerenaSlam
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:02 PM
it still amazes me that serena didnt have one off day and played every single day of the tournament and won both of her events...that is just amazing. in itself. and no one else is doing that....NO ONE....physically she is amazing. and in my opinoin no one else does it because they cant...IMO

bandabou
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:03 PM
Nothing that happened at the 2010 Australian Open legitimized Serena's '08-'09. Serena's results spoke for themselves and her Serena Slam in '02 - '03 legitimized any grand slam singles tournament she won thereafter, regardless who was in the draw. Serena is the best of this generation and her results should never come under the scrutiny of validation. Not by Mary Carillo, Peter Bodo or any other journalist hack living off the success named Serena Williams.

Kim beat Venus and Serena Williams to win the '09 US Open. How many active players today can say they beat Venus and Serena in the same grand slam event and won it? Kim's win was no fluke.

Nothing can be measured from defeating a player in a grand slam final, in only her second tournament back from a two-year grand slam tournament retirement. Peter Bodo's article should have been re-written and shelved until at least after US Open 2010 when the larger picture of the grand slam reality has played out. We all know that Henin is only going to improve by the French Open and other slam events. Serena will always be a threat late in a grand slam tournament. Venus will always be a threat on grass. Kim will always be a threat on hardcourts.


Ya know there were talks.so now the talk is over.

RVD
Feb 3rd, 2010, 01:32 AM
Personally, it doesn't matter to me what ANY of the sports journalists (or jealous commentator says) write, or what their opinions may be. I can see with my own eyes and analyze as well as the next guy. I've been following tennis for a looong time, and all Bodo did in the OP article was simply reaffirm what Serena fans have always stated. :shrug:

Nuff said.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 3rd, 2010, 04:21 AM
it still amazes me that serena didnt have one off day and played every single day of the tournament and won both of her events...that is just amazing. in itself. and no one else is doing that....NO ONE....physically she is amazing. and in my opinoin no one else does it because they cant...IMO

:worship::worship::worship:

jrollaneres25
Feb 3rd, 2010, 06:34 AM
It's worth bearing in mind that Federer lost Basle to Djokovic and YEC and Doha to Davydenko - all in F or SF against excellent players. That's a far cry from Serena losing 1st round to a ballgirl with a broken racquet.

:eek::haha::rolls:

jrollaneres25
Feb 3rd, 2010, 06:37 AM
I disagree with Mr Bodo's analysis of the Serena-Belgian situation.

Whereas I would agree that Serena has not been 'keeping the seat warm' for the Belgians, the fact that Kim can win a slam from her in her third event back and Justine can almost do so in her second, indicates how far the tour has been enfeebled in their absence if even the great Ms Williams can be thus challenged. She may still be Queen of the tour but her hold on the throne looks about as secure as Mary Queen of Scots'! For most of 2009 Serena was dismal and virtually sleepwalked her way to the top ranking at the end of the year as Safina managed to engineer the worst ever losses by a No 1 in history in the autumn. Serena's wins at the WTA Championships and here in Australia were excellent and have saved the tour's blushes but it remains to be seen whether she can continue that form, as she seems unable to win successive tournaments.

It is pretty obvious that Serena will not hold on to the top spot if she continues in 2009 form with some proper challengers to her title - the main advantage she holds is not her overall game but the fact that she has played a full year of tournaments, unlike the Belgians who will be playing catchup for most of the year. Henin's close loss to Serena in Miami in 2007 was the prelude to her slam annihilation of her the rest of the year, so her confidence must be sky high if she can come so close to beating her after only two events.

As far as his view of the top 10 is concerned, I am not sure whether it is a question of the depth of the tour or the weakness of the top 10 - a bit of both, I think. With the Belgians, Sharapova and Ivanovic currently out of the top 10, it looks very shorn of slam winning material besides the Williams and Kuzy. It really is about time Azarenka, for instance, burst out of that GS quarter-final rut she is finding herself in, but I wouldn't wait up!

:spit: Ugh no, that's a bad comparison. Right now, Serena is so far ahead of everybody playing. She may not win ALL the time, but she's definitely the Queen. More like Elizabeth I after the sinking of the Armada, as secure as you can get, but not without vulnerabilities.

And let me add that a very tired and injured Serena at maybe 50% beat an in-form Henin for the Aussie Title. A healthy-fresh Serena would do to her what she did in Miami in 2008:drool:

Njay16
Feb 3rd, 2010, 06:40 AM
And let me add that a very tired and injured Serena at maybe 50% beat an in-form Henin for the Aussie Title. A healthy-fresh Serena would do to her what she did in Miami in 2008:drool:

True Serena wasn't 100%. But the Henin she played in the Aussie Open final was much more motivated than the one she played in Miami.

rucolo
Feb 5th, 2010, 04:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4876809&name=bodo_peter


Five things we learned Down Under

Monday, February 1, 2010 | Feedback | Print Entry

1. In the WTA, it's all about who finishes second. This was a critical major for the women, for one reason: Had Serena Williams lost to either Justine Henin or Kim Clijsters, it would have cast doubt on the roughly two-year period during which those Belgian stars were absent.

The message would have been that Williams, who has the kind of game and personality with which you can find fault (if that's what you're looking to do), was just keeping the throne warm for a continued reign by Henin or a continuation of Clijsters' development as a dominant player -- a mission she abandoned in the spring of 2007 after getting to at least the semifinals at five majors, including the first one she won, the 2005 U.S. Open.

By beating Henin in the final, Williams established the fact that the best player has always been present and accounted for -- and that the titles she won during the Belgians' holiday were legitimate. Henin might yet put together another amazing year like the one she enjoyed in 2007, and Clijsters still has time to dominate the game for a good few years. But Williams is still at the head of the class.

So true.:yeah::worship:


3. Watch out for those floaters, ladies. The depth of the WTA game continues to improve, and no player who hasn't won at least one major (and some who have) is safe at any stage after the first or second round. Dinara Safina (she gets a partial pass because of her back injury), Jelena Jankovic, Caroline Wozniacki and Ana Ivanovic -- all established stars at the beginning of this year -- have to watch their backs. Victoria Azarenka, Vera Zvonareva, Yanina Wickmayer, Nadia Petrova, maybe even Flavia Pennetta and Maria Kirilenko all have out the long knives. And, oh, what about the two talented Chinese players, Li Na and Zheng Jie? The pecking order in the women's game has never been less stable in that Nos. 3 or 4 through No. 10 category.


Agree.:)

thrust
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:05 PM
it still amazes me that serena didnt have one off day and played every single day of the tournament and won both of her events...that is just amazing. in itself. and no one else is doing that....NO ONE....physically she is amazing. and in my opinoin no one else does it because they cant...IMO

Most players do not have Serena's physical strength, or a partner like Venus. Serena is a great player with exceptional physical strength, which makes her very hard to beat if she is playing her near best.