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View Full Version : Why so much bitterness and conflict between Serena and Justine fans ?


Mina Vagante
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:00 PM
Admittedly, i've posted my fair share of comments about Justine, but nothing too major.
I just don't see why the two fan bases have to be so bitter to each other. After the match there were like 5 new threads, a bunch of them bumped and all caused conflict.

Sure we all get pretty intense during the matches as we wan our favourites to win and it is fun to have bragging rights, but it's just a tennis match.

I'm glad that Justine is back and she made the final. It gives Serena extra competition and i love it when they play each other. I enjoyed this final so much more than some of Serena's others finals.

So, what i'm trying to say is that we should be grateful that these two tennis players have the opportunity to play against each other, because it certainly makes tennis more exciting. I do not like Justine's game at all, but she is a champion and i respect her.

It's time to move on from the petty arguments now. I hope they play many more matches this year.

VishaalMaria
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Ok thank you Mother Teresa.

Optima
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:05 PM
:worship:

Well said.

Ferg
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Im going to take this fucking ball and shove it down your fucking throat. You dont know me.
















A lot of people release their frustations here.

SoClose
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:10 PM
because Henins fans are stupid like her.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:17 PM
because Henins fans are stupid like her.
I always say insults reveal much more about the person who says them than the person they are directed to :)

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:19 PM
I don't think there any more bad feelings than any other opposing fans bases who wittnesed higly constested match.

However, there are 2 issues that will not die as long as Justine fans pretend they do not exist.

The illegal coaching, and "The Hand Incidecnt". Yea the Hand Incident.

I don't need to expand on the illegal coaching beause all posters know about.

The Hand Incident is included, because the illegal coaching pattern strikes the same theme of cheating that WS Fans had accused Henin of, following The Hand Incident .

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:20 PM
because Henins fans are stupid like her.
Seriously, this was really unncessary.
Henin is not stupid, nor are her fans.

The fans are just misguided!!

Thanx4nothin
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Seriously, this was really unncessary.
Henin is not stupid, nor are her fans.

The fans are just misguided!!

:lol: If you're not a politician, you should be!

The Witch-king
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:27 PM
It's sports. They are rivals. We are fans.

Is it so hard to understand?

ys
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:28 PM
It's definitely not a representative sampling. It's only the most stupid, most intellectually challenged, no-life, no-own-achievement fans, who totally take this _other_ people's success as their own.. It's them who'd go to the boards right after the match to in-your-face celebrate with only purpose to humiliate the other player's fans, to gloat or to bitch. They are, undoubtedly, a minority here. But also, admitted;y, they are the most vocal. That's life. Everyone got the happiness of their own.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:31 PM
However, there 2 issues that will not dies as long Justine fan pretend they do not exist.

The illegal coaching, and "The Hand Incidecnt". Yea the Hand Incident.

There are a lot of Justine fans that have acknowledged "The Hand Incident" as well as the AO final against Amélie. Fans who were not thrilled with Justine's behaviour and expressed it. However, though some recognize Justine is not perfect, that does not mean we should stop being her fans or talk about "The Hand Incident" every single day.

The Dawntreader
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:33 PM
I think you're 7 years too late to be asking.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:34 PM
It's definitely not a representative sampling. It's only the most stupid, most intellectually challenged, no-life, no-own-achievement fans, who totally take this _other_ people's success as their own.. It's them who'd go to the boards right after the match to in-your-face celebrate with only purpose to humiliate the other player's fans, to gloat or to bitch. They are, undoubtedly, a minority here. But also, admitted;y, they are the most vocal. That's life. Everyone got the happiness of their own.
This eloquent post, not withstanding it condensecnding tone, would have carried more weight if you were not known for participating in the same trimphalism you accused others of.

I don't recall you calling people to task when it is the other way around.
How would you? You were in the middle of it.

This false and manfucatured modesty or if just crap.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:35 PM
no bitterness...its just you want to idealize henin lost and we are realists....she lost she got dealt. so take it take it. You have been served. Serena is a warrior. This will happen again and again and again

ys
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:36 PM
This eloquent post, not withstanding it condensecnding tone, would have carried more weight if you were not known for participating in the same trimphalism you accused others of.

Example?

gc-spurs
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:37 PM
i wish we could all get along like we did in middle school. i wish i could bake a cake with rainbows....

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:40 PM
There are a lot of Justine fans that have acknowledged "The Hand Incident" as well as the AO final against Amélie. Fans who were not thrilled with Justine's behaviour and expressed it. However, though some recognize Justine is not perfect, that does not mean we should stop being her fans or talk about "The Hand Incident" every single day.
Good point, I did not mean all Justine fans.
For that I stand corrected.
I mean those driving the threads about the 2 issues mentioned.

However, I would acknowledge moderate voices always come accross as mutted.

Olórin
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:41 PM
There isn't any more bitterness than normal :shrug:

And if people are gonna create moronic threads then after big wins those threads are gonna be bumped and their words shoved down their fucking throats.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:43 PM
What I really loved was how tight Mary Carillo face was after the match having to compliment Serena. It was priceless. She really hates her and I love when they have to compliment her when she wins. Love it!!!

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:45 PM
talk about "The Hand Incident" every single day.

Indeed! I have my own opinion about this and I expressed it on this board back in 2003. But I don't no why I "should admit" something every fucking time Justine is playing Serena (or even if the latter's not the case for that matter :rolleyes: ). People are focussing so hard on 'Justine's mistakes' that even I (who consider myself an objective fan, ahum) feel of defending her sometimes.

But anyway, 2009 has shown that the tour has missed Justine, and I wallow in this new 'respect' for Justine that a lot of her 'haters' seem to have. I know it won't last, but still...

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:49 PM
What I really loved was how tight Mary Carillo face was after the match having to compliment Serena. It was priceless. She really hates her and I love when they have to compliment her when she wins. Love it!!!
Her pesence in the press booth during Serena macthes show she lacks integerity and principles.

She did not think Serena should be playing at this Aussue open because of the USO incident.
She was still outaged during the earliers rounds and said so.

So why sit through something you have fundamental objection to?
The right thing would have been to excuse herself from all Serena coverages.

Destiny
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:49 PM
MEH don't think it's that bad yet

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:54 PM
Exactly, Mary Carillo is the worse then comes Pam Shriver then Mary Jo
You can tell when they jump on Serena when shes down with the bad comments
How many title did any of them win please
Serena did show her ....at Us Open but john mcenroe and jimmy connors have done worse...
its racism and sexism. Tennis is a racist sport and they are mad because the sisters have dominated it.

Human Nature
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Because a lot Justine Henin fans have NO respect for serena (the person) , supposely because they dont like her game .

Back in 2003 a lot of Henin fans and bandwagoners simply considered that serena deserved what happened in RG and IW (2001) .

There are a lot of tension because of the way they treat serena and dont consider her achievement :because according to them her power is not fair , her natural athletism is not fair , the fact that she wins is not fair , that Henin is more talented considering her size and because she has one hand back hand blah blah... .

All in all ,most of the serena fans (and venus ) see a lot racism in the way serena is treated by Henin fans and bandwagoners .

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:17 PM
This is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS. I know (from this online forum, obviously) a lot of Justine fans that were not happy with the RG incident and said so. A lot of Justine fans that respect Serena as a player and acknowledge without any kind of hesitation that she is a great champion and - more than that - that her success is not based entirely on her natural athleticism (Serena is much more than a body and this is especially evident NOW that her body is not as fit as it once was). I am not even going to comment on the racism charges, because for some people any kind of criticism directed at the William Sisters (be it fair or not) is instantly an evidence of racism.

Because a lot Justine Henin fans have NO respect for serena (the person) , supposely because they dont like her game .

Back in 2003 a lot of Henin fans and bandwagoners simply considered that serena deserved what happened in RG and IW (2001) .

There are a lot of tension because of the way they treat serena and dont consider her achievement :because according to them her power is not fair , her natural athletism is not fair , the fact that she wins is not fair , that Henin is more talented considering her size and because she has one hand back hand blah blah... .

All in all ,most of the serena fans (and venus ) see a lot racism in the way serena is treated by Henin fans and bandwagoners .

Matt01
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:32 PM
All in all ,most of the serena fans (and venus ) see a lot racism in the way serena is treated by Henin fans and bandwagoners .


Yeah, that is one of the big problems. They see racism where there clearly is no racism.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:43 PM
This is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS. I know (from this online forum, obviously) a lot of Justine fans that were not happy with the RG incident and said so. A lot of Justine fans that respect Serena as a player and acknowledge without any kind of hesitation that she is a great champion and - more than that - that her success is not based entirely on her natural athleticism (Serena is much more than a body and this is especially evident NOW that her body is not as fit as it once was). I am not even going to comment on the racism charges, because for some people any kind of criticism directed at the William Sisters (be it fair or not) is instantly an evidence of racism.
Conversly, people like you are so quick to dismiss everything as palying the race card, that you won't really a genuine racist action if it hit you in the face.

You have painted youreslf inot a box where you feel compelled to justify everything as non-racist.

Unfortunately it is the same in real life, so it is no surprise there professional deniers here as well, whose instinct is to justify everything in non-racist terms.
This was illustrated in the last USA presidential campaingn.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:43 PM
spoken like someone who is out of touch and thus has no clue about the world and what minorities face on a day to day basis
read the paper look at the news please get a clue

goldenlox
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:46 PM
I don't study message boards, but I would guess a football board would have Liverpool and ManU fans going at it.
Or a baseball board having Yankee and Red Sox fans go at it.

Serena and Justine are 2 great players, but very different. Still going, probably for several more years

Vlover
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:53 PM
Because it is a normal occurence in sports. There is a lot trash talking before matches and games and the winner earn the bragging rights. I'm sure if Justine had won the jubliation and:shrug: bitterness would have been the same. I make no apoligies for enjoying this victory due to all the trash talking and bashing Serena and her fans had to endure after the USO up to this victory. So :banana::cheer:

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:06 PM
People like myself? Who are you to say how people like myself think or behave? Furthermore, tell me WHERE, WHERE in my post I state that all atacks are not racist? WHERE, WHERE in my post I say there is not a hint of racism in all the criticism the Williams sisters got? I feel compelled to justify NOTHING, because simply I justified nothing. All I said is that the poster - whose comment I was commenting on - is very quick to call everything racist.
Plus, what has the US Presidential campaign to do with this? If you had followed the threads in here about it, you would probably have noticed that I stayed up till dawn (in my country) till the California results were announced and I could celebrate Obama's victory.


Conversly, people like you are so quick to dismiss everything as palying the race card, that you won't really a genuine racist action if it hit you in the face.

You have painted youreslf inot a box where you feel compelled to justify everything as non-racist.

Unfortunately it is the same in real life, so it is no surprise there professional deniers here as well, whose instinct is to justify everything in non-racist terms.
This was illustrated in the last USA presidential campaingn.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:08 PM
Get a clue yourself. I am a minority, mister. I have been bullied and discriminated against all my life, but I don't see homophobia in every single attack on Martina Navratilova.

spoken like someone who is out of touch and thus has no clue about the world and what minorities face on a day to day basis
read the paper look at the news please get a clue

thrust
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:11 PM
because Henins fans are stupid like her.

NONSENSE! IT IS YOU AND OTHER HATERS, ON BOTH SIDES, THAT ARE STUPID. GROW UP JERK, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

Human Nature
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:12 PM
Get a clue yourself. I am a minority, mister. I have been bullied and discriminated against all my life, but I don't see homophobia in every single attack on Martina Navratilova.

A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .

The things , racism particularly , the Williams have had to endure throughout this decade ... amelie Mauresmo has endured nothing close to this .

Matt01
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:16 PM
A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .


Don't even try to go there :rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:17 PM
People like myself? Who are you to say how people like myself think or behave? Furthermore, tell me WHERE, WHERE in my post I state that all atacks are not racist? WHERE, WHERE in my post I say there is not a hint of racism in all the criticism the Williams sisters got? I feel compelled to justify NOTHING, because simply I justified nothing. All I said is that the poster - whose comment I was commenting on - is very quick to call everything racist.
Plus, what has the US Presidential campaign to do with this? If you had followed the threads in here about it, you would probably have noticed that I stayed up till dawn (in my country) till the California results were announced and I could celebrate Obama's victory.
I am not saying you did not celebrate when Obama won.

What I am saying is that there were multiple blatant action of racism at rallies and in local new papers publications, and people still find a reason to call them non-racist or isollated actions of a misguided few.

Even if those acction were done prominent politicians.

As what this has to do with US presidnetial elelction, they have in common the quick instinct of dismissing everthing as playing the race card.

Also, posters do not live in isolation.
Their actions are informed by their surroundings.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:20 PM
your are so unaware its not even worth responding. Venus and Serena have endured lots of racism since they started. Not just what you see in media but hell if you wanna go there . Indian wells hello... so don't tell me you understand until you walk a mile in there shoes. right. I was waiting for you to say i have black friends typical white racist comment

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:26 PM
your are so unaware its not even worth responding. Venus and Serena have endured lots of racism since they started. Not just what you see in media but hell if you wanna go there . Indian wells hello... so don't tell me you understand until you walk a mile in there shoes. right. I was waiting for you to say i have black friends typical white racist comment
You are so unaware, simply because you do not read what other people write. I never said Venus or Serena never endured racism. Period. Plus, I am also waiting for you to say you have gay friends :)

BlameSerena
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Because it is a normal occurence in sports. There is a lot trash talking before matches and games and the winner earn the bragging rights. I'm sure if Justine had won the jubliation and:shrug: bitterness would have been the same. I make no apoligies for enjoying this victory due to all the trash talking and bashing Serena and her fans had to endure after the USO up to this victory. So :banana::cheer:

Well said. I can't even imagine how crazy this place would be if Serena lost. :eek:

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:31 PM
i dont have gay friends!

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:33 PM
«What I am saying is that there were multiple blatant action of racism at rallies and in local new papers publications, and people still find the a reason to call them as non-racist or isollated actions of a misguided few.»
But «I» never did that. I never said racism is a thing of the past. Do you think I am stupid or blind? Of course, there is still racism and homphobia and they are much more prevalent than we can imagine. However, the fight against racism and homophobia does not benefit from us painting everything racist or homphobic and mind you I have criticised people from seeing homophobia where there's none of it.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:33 PM
i dont have gay friends!
Your loss :)

friendsita
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Ok thank you Mother Teresa.

:lol:

I think Serena's fans deslike Juju since the hand incident.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:35 PM
A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .

Indeed. A homosexual champion in Iran would be dead by now.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:37 PM
[quote=MJ angel;17217853]A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .[quote]
Indeed. A homosexual champion in Iran would be dead by now.
Not defent the poster, s/he can do it himself/herself, but that is toally out of context and not a fair point of discussion.

Human Nature
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Indeed. A homosexual champion in Iran would be dead by now.

We are talking about democratic places . But you know black people are still slaves in Sudan , so if you want to go that far we can.. .

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:43 PM
We are talking about democratic places . But you know black people are still slaves in Sudan , so if you want to go that far we can.. .
VivalaSeles can also try China, where a girl whose father is black and mother chinese, caused a stir in a successful talent show by going too far in the competition.

Viweers flooded the producers of the shows by nasty calls urging them to get black devil off Chinese TV.

Arnian
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Some people just like to brag and thus arguing ensues after a big match like this.
It's just a rivalry, so of course there's going to be arguing between the fanbases.

debby
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Poor Williams sisters, the whole world is against her !!! that lineswoman, Mariana Alves, Justine Henin, Kim Clijsters, Sharapova are racists !!11

so pathetic to bring the racism out here, geez, I can't stand Serena at all, and I am not racist :weirdo: :tape: :tape: So many people hate Justine, should I talk about white people racism? Of course not. But perhaps it is because I am not blinded, and I can see why people don't like Henin.

Get over it.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:45 PM
[quote=VivalaSeles;17217955][quote=MJ angel;17217853]A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .
Not defent the poster, s/he can do it himself/herself, but that is toally out of context and not a fair point of discussion.
It is a fair point of discussion and do you know why?: because the original poster tried to do a hierarchy of prejudice or a hierarchy of discrimination and, you and I know it (don't you?), there is no such thing. There is no such thing as a worst discrimination or a lesser discrimination. Prejudice is prejudice. Period. All forms are as bad and as unacceptable. Plus, what do we know of what Amélie has gone through? We know nothing of it. And my point was: you may think being black or a black champion is less accepted here, but just look there and you'll see things differently.

VivalaSeles
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:48 PM
We are talking about democratic places . But you know black people are still slaves in Sudan , so if you want to go that far we can.. .
Yes, I do know. And I know that there are millions of people enslaved throughout the world, unfortunately. A sign that we haven't progressed as much as we would like to think. And I don't go there for a reason I stated earlier and which is my firm belief: weighing different forms of discrimination is absurd and an evil in itself, because ALL forms of discrimination are as bad.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Poor Williams sisters, the whole world is against her !!! that lineswoman, Mariana Alves, Justine Henin, Kim Clijsters, Sharapova are racists !!11

so pathetic to bring the racism out here, geez, I can't stand Serena at all, and I am not racist So many people hate Justine, should I talk about white people racism? Of course not. But perhaps it is because I am not blinded, and I can see why people don't like Henin.

Get over it.
__________________
please refrain from saying poor and williams together because they are rich and you are not as we can see pwt
Secondly seems like your still dealing with your lost....ha hahahahahha....don't worry you will get use to it

danieln1
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:49 PM
Why complain when it´s so much fun, this rivalry between fans... it makes this board much more funnier!!!

And it has always happened, as the Serena´s fans with the Maria fans, and it will never end...

Otherwise this board would be so much boring, imagine this: A serena fan congratulate Justine and vice versa all the time, without a single discussion??? It would be so boring...

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:50 PM
go cry in your trailer debby better yet......join the klan. That will show us right

Arnian
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:52 PM
go cry in your trailer debby better yet......join the klan. That will show us right

She lives in France dip shit, why don't you get on your main account and post that trash :rolleyes:

Vanity Bonfire
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:52 PM
A Homosexual Champion is way more accepted than a black woman winning , and winning a lot in a sport mostly dominated by white .

The things , racism particularly , the Williams have had to endure throughout this decade ... amelie Mauresmo has endured nothing close to this.

That is so unbelievably untrue. I'd say about only 20% of athletes who are gay have decided to come out, because they fear the reaction of their admission so much. Those who do may be given a lot of superficial praise by some press members, but behind the scenes they are truly bullied. Also, when Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova came out, they lost almost all of their sponsorships and were reviled by many. Mauresmo has had to deal with a lot of stick for her orientation as well.

irma
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Sharapova has a lot of haters. I am sure if she would have the same outgoing personality as Serena and equal succes it would be even worse

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Poor Williams sisters, the whole world is against her !!! that lineswoman, Mariana Alves, Justine Henin, Kim Clijsters, Sharapova are racists !!11 .
This is so simplistic and condenscending.
But if it helps you your point, more power to you.

Maybe you are looking for allies by droping all those names.
Justine (and all the players your cited) and many fans this board will not fall for that

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:54 PM
She lives in France dip shit, why don't you get on your main account and post that trash

looks like somebody did not pass geography thats australian flag. Yes, you are a douche lord

Vanity Bonfire
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:57 PM
She lives in France dip shit, why don't you get on your main account and post that trash

looks like somebody did not pass geography thats australian flag. Yes, you are a douche lord

Just because you're under a specific flag doesn't mean you are actually from that particular country.

I'm from the UK, but my flag is for Japan.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:57 PM
can you spell debby....d e b b y. and you are the biggest loser. ARNIAN THE AZZ

debby
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:57 PM
go cry in your trailer debby better yet......join the klan. That will show us right

OMFG :weirdo: I will report you. You seriously need help.

There are some Serena or Venus Williams fans I really like : reetard (why was he banned ??), oliviasmith, Uranium, Renalicious and some others I have forgotten, and even if I don't talk to them but rarely... I don't hate the whole fanbase, I actually like Venus, but I dislike Serena for some reasons, so why don't you claim the same thing for the Jujuhaters ? Where is the logic ?

Vanity Bonfire
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:00 PM
OMFG :weirdo: I will report you. You seriously need help.

There are some Serena or Venus Williams I really like : reetard (why was he banned ??), oliviasmith, Uranium, Renalicious and some others I have forgotten, and even if I don't talk to them but rarely... I don't hate the whole fanbase, I actually like Venus, but I dislike Serena for some reasons, so why don't you claim the same thing for the Jujuhaters ? Where is the logic ?

What? When did that happen?

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Cry Baby..o I Will Report You....thank You For Telling Me I Won

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:01 PM
your so racist you cant even see straight dont come at me because your girl lost
take it take it like the man you are

sweetpeas
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Don't even try to go there

Why not? No one known ones gay,unless you' tell them! .Some people will try with all they're heart to fight they're feelings about being gay!That's why there so many f*** up marriage's back then...Those people's who voted for the new president,that was about their homes being taking away from them..Jobs...

debby
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:07 PM
This is so simplistic and condenscending.
But if it helps you your point, more power to you.

Maybe you are looking for allies by droping all those names.
Justine (and all the players your cited) and many fans this board will not fall for that

:spit: I was making fun of those people who think if the WS are hated, it is necessarily because of racism. So untrue. Maybe some people are racists but not everybody.

She lives in France dip shit, why don't you get on your main account and post that trash

looks like somebody did not pass geography thats australian flag. Yes, you are a douche lord

:spit: again. On January, my favourite was at Australian Open, and I was believing, so it is a way to show my support. But I confirm you, I am french.

What? When did that happen?

Yeah, you cannot give him some reputation :(

Arnian
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:11 PM
She lives in France dip shit, why don't you get on your main account and post that trash

looks like somebody did not pass geography thats australian flag. Yes, you are a douche lord

I think I know where my fellow Henin fans are from moron.
You are so trashy and pathetic and you have 0 guts for posting on some fake account.

Why don't you crawl back down the shit hole you came from.

steffiandbibi
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:36 PM
VivalaSeles can also try China, where a girl whose father is black and mother chinese, caused a stir in a successful talent show by going too far in the competition.

Viweers flooded the producers of the shows by nasty calls urging them to get black devil off Chinese TV.

dont mislead people if you want to include china in your topic. that girl was hated by some extreme people because she said her father is a random AMERICAN black, not an african poor guy, so she is SUPIRIOR to others. those haters are stupid but its not because she is Black.
another chinese born black boy is a star in a valleyball club, nobody hates him.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:36 PM
:spit: I was making fun of those people who think if the WS are hated, it is necessarily because of racism. So untrue. Maybe some people are racists but not everybody.
Mais is tu es Francais/Francaise, tu dois savoir que le racism est un problem serieux contre les Africains du Nord (les Algeriens en particualier) el les Noirs.

En fait, des copains Americains se sont toujours demande, pourquoi la France dont the sport international a une face noire, a tant de problems de racism.

Parceque je parle Francais, je me suis souvent trouve dans la position incomfortable de defendre la France quand it s'agit de certain sujets qui sont en direct contracdition avec le visgae public de la France et les realites de minorites em France.

PS:
Je m'excuse mais contrairement aux claviers Francais, mon keyboad n'a pas d'accent disponible.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:40 PM
dont mislead people if you want to include china in your topic. that girl was hated by some extreme people because she said her father is a random AMERICAN black, not an african poor guy, so she is SUPIRIOR to others. those haters are stupid but its not because she is Black.
another chinese born black boy is a star in a valleyball club, nobody hates him.
Please, I have visited several chinese blogs, and the experience of blacks living in China is a nightmare.
This is confirmed by both blacks and non-blacks(white Americans) living in China,

But this is a discussion for another forum, not here.

steffiandbibi
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Why SW fans have to protect their idol by attacking everything come to their mind--other contries and HOMO...?

Will SW marry Henin bring the poor world some peace?

wmsfourlife
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:48 PM
dont waste your time those who believe no racism are unaware
and clueless as stated previously

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Why SW fans have to protect their idol by attacking everything come to their mind--other contries and HOMO...?

Will SW marry Henin bring the poor world some peace?
You are pooh-poohing the discussion by your poor attemps to humor.

But it is no funny.

I should note to you that someone Henin sympathetic to henin (not sure if s/he is Justine fan or Not) brought the homexual in Iran into the topic.

wmsfourlife
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:49 PM
if you are not a minority your point is null and void

debby
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Mais is tu es Francais/Francaise, tu dois savoir que le racism est un problem serieux contre les Africains du Nord (les Algeriens en particualier) el les Noirs.

En fait, des copains Americains se sont toujours demande, pourquoi la France dont the sport international a une face noire, a tant de problems de racism.

Parceque je parle Francais, je me suis souvent trouve dans la position incomfortable de defendre la France quand it s'agit de certain sujets qui sont en direct contracdition avec le visgae public de la France et les realites de minorites em France.

PS:
Je m'excuse mais contrairement aux claviers Francais, mon keyboad n'a pas d'accent disponible.

Because people are moron here, there will be racists everywhere, especially during crisis , I mean, when some french people lose their jobs, they think it is all about the blacks or algerian people who steal their jobs :tape: So retarded.

You know, here they support the French team (Henry or the pair Abidal/Malouda (back in 2006) for instance) because they are strong, and well-known, same for Benzema, Zidane who are coming from Algeria, but when it comes to common people who are not famous at all, there is much more racism. Actually I think most of racist people are "not really racists" , when they are happy or not embarrassed, they will be likely to say nothing, otherwise, they will find a reason to bully them because they need to complain.

I am deaf you know, and same thing is happening to me because some of my so called friends are jealous so they start saying bullshit about my deafness, you know.

It is not only about racism but jealousy and difference. I think some S&V haters hate them because they are black or something, racism is everywhere unfortunately, but I think there are people who don't care about them but they have nothing to do with them, and also people who are not geniunely racists (like me) . ;) And I tend to believe people who are not racists at all are the majority from these Serena&Venus dislikers.

oh and BTW, there are some people who call Henry and some other Black football players "monkey" :tape: :tape: even our national anthem was booed once or twice during national matchs in the Stade de France at Paris.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 08:04 PM
It is not only about racism but jealousy and difference. I think some S&V haters hate them because they are black or something, racism is everywhere unfortunately, but I think there are people who don't care about them but they have nothing to do with them, and also people who are not geniunely racists (like me) . ;) And I tend to believe people who are not racists at all are the majority from these Serena&Venus dislikers..

Fair point.

But there is fine line between dismissing everyhing as racial paranoia and examining things on a case by case basis.

Everything is not false claim of racism, just like everything does not ahve racist motive.
I think every often poster who everything as false claim no longer make the effort consider "the fact of the case"

oh and BTW, there are some people who call Henry and some other Black football players "monkey" :tape: :tape: even our national anthem was booed once or twice during national matchs in the Stade de France at Paris.
I am aware of this and was told it is worse in Italy, when a team loses, their own fans will call black players monkeys and make monkey gesture complete with bananas in hand.

Vaidisova Ruled
Jan 30th, 2010, 08:11 PM
Seriously, all these fights are SO annoying.

I thought that with Henin back, Williams Sisters fans would stop criticising every other players (like "oh my god, jelena is so ugly :lol: she should hide her face" "OMG her boobs are so little, it's funny" (copyright Denise) etc), and they don't do that anymore, which is cool.

But all these fights Jujutards/reetards are SO BORING. They should be an official thread where should be all these fights which includes all these boring fights like this one. I didn't even read this thread but I already saw "racism" or something like that. All these things should go to the political forum. Because some people here just want to talk about tennis. Bombshell, right?

Because, BTW, some people here don't like tennis. I'm sorry. Every time Serena wins something, it always turns to something like that. And some people say that whenn V&S retires, they will stop following tennis. That says it all. You want to talk about racism? That's fine, go here http://www.tennisforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1235

I already miss the posts like "Maria is the ugliest woman of the whole world".

treufreund
Jan 30th, 2010, 09:43 PM
I really don't see how anyone any US-based poster can have the gall to say that a homosexual champion would be accepted more. Name one single openly gay male player in tennis. There are almost none in all of sports. Martina Navratilova has finally been embraced because of her overwhelming achievements. For years, her partner was at her matches and referred to as her "long-time friend". Much progress has been made for gays and lesbians, indeed. It's not to say that there is no racism still either, but think long and hard about this: Many white people including myself proudly voted for our first biracial president. Nevertheless, gays and lesbians in the majority of US States can be fired from their jobs and denied to right to marry the person they love. We cannot openly serve our own country in the military. We still endure daily attacks in our schools by kids saying "that's so gay" about anything that they want to insult. We are still being murdered and bashed on a frequent basis for just holding our partner's hand in public. Racism also goes in both directions, mind you. Many European and, specifically, Russian tourists have been raped and killed in Goa, India recently simply due to their skin color. Albinos are being tortured and EATEN BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE in Africa. Some of you don't want to talk about racism against people with lighter skin color because it doesn't suit your agenda. Recently a boy was beaten to death in a school in America by dark-skinned kids because the boy was a ginger (that is, to say, very fair complected with red hair.) The kids ganged up on him and beat him because he was a ginger. We have had violence also in the news against gay and transgendered kids. All of it is sick and painful and evil. None of us has any right to claim that his or her own suffering is worse than others'. NOT NOW OR EVER! I went through being spat upon, gay-bashed with a baseball bat and fired from a job for being gay. My own brother won't speak to me. Don't talk to me about gay people being acceptable. :fiery:

Donny
Jan 30th, 2010, 09:50 PM
It's sports. They are rivals. We are fans.

Is it so hard to understand?

Pretty much.

Donny
Jan 30th, 2010, 09:59 PM
Because it is a normal occurence in sports. There is a lot trash talking before matches and games and the winner earn the bragging rights. I'm sure if Justine had won the jubliation and:shrug: bitterness would have been the same. I make no apoligies for enjoying this victory due to all the trash talking and bashing Serena and her fans had to endure after the USO up to this victory. So :banana::cheer:

This.

all of these endorsement plans are on contingencies. If Sharapova doesn't meet her requirements, she won't get anywhere close to $70 million. Serena, on the other hand, is currently maxing out her contract by being #1 and also winning so many majors.

She is definitely making more money than Sharapova right now.

Indeed. I'm sure, like American sports contracts, it's based on a system of 'guaranteed' money, with bonus money added in if performance is up to par.

vml
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:06 PM
Because people are moron here, there will be racists everywhere, especially during crisis , I mean, when some french people lose their jobs, they think it is all about the blacks or algerian people who steal their jobs :tape: So retarded.

You know, here they support the French team (Henry or the pair Abidal/Malouda (back in 2006) for instance) because they are strong, and well-known, same for Benzema, Zidane who are coming from Algeria, but when it comes to common people who are not famous at all, there is much more racism. Actually I think most of racist people are "not really racists" , when they are happy or not embarrassed, they will be likely to say nothing, otherwise, they will find a reason to bully them because they need to complain.

I am deaf you know, and same thing is happening to me because some of my so called friends are jealous so they start saying bullshit about my deafness, you know.

It is not only about racism but jealousy and difference. I think some S&V haters hate them because they are black or something, racism is everywhere unfortunately, but I think there are people who don't care about them but they have nothing to do with them, and also people who are not geniunely racists (like me) . ;) And I tend to believe people who are not racists at all are the majority from these Serena&Venus dislikers.

oh and BTW, there are some people who call Henry and some other Black football players "monkey" :tape: :tape: even our national anthem was booed once or twice during national matchs in the Stade de France at Paris.

This is so true :worship:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:24 PM
I really don't see how anyone any US-based poster can have the gall to say that a homosexual champion would be accepted more. Name one single openly gay male player in tennis. There are almost none in all of sports. Martina Navratilova has finally been embraced because of her overwhelming achievements. For years, her partner was at her matches and referred to as her "long-time friend". Much progress has been made for gays and lesbians, indeed. It's not to say that there is no racism still either, but think long and hard about this: Many white people including myself proudly voted for our first biracial president. Nevertheless, gays and lesbians in the majority of US States can be fired from their jobs and denied to right to marry the person they love. We cannot openly serve our own country in the military. We still endure daily attacks in our schools by kids saying "that's so gay" about anything that they want to insult. We are still being murdered and bashed on a frequent basis for just holding our partner's hand in public. None of us has any right to claim that his or her own suffering is worse than others'. NOT NOW OR EVER! I went through being spat upon, gay-bashed with a baseball bat and fired from a job for being gay. My own brother won't speak to me. Don't talk to me about gay people being acceptable. :fiery:

This.


Hopefully one day we will all be able to (at the very least, PRETEND TO) accept each other (in public). It really is a shame though, that as far as we've come, as human kind, that we're still very closed-minded.

Paneru
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:25 PM
Do you really have to ask?

Everyone knows TF is where the infantile come to spar!

Amanda
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:14 PM
Congratulations to Serena for winning another grand slam tournament.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:40 PM
Well in all honesty I think its just a friendly rivalry that goes out of hands sometimes...(at least with me..I dont get bent out of shape by Henin fans)....we have our rivalry because they ACTUALLY believe that Henin is better than Serena... ;) lol and we think Serena is better than her. I think both fans deep down inside really respect the game of both players because they both are really good players. (at least I respect Henin's talent...i may not LIKE her but the girl can play without a doubt) The rivalry is moreso with the fans than the players. I cant lie...I love a good Serena beat down on justine though....lol

faste5683
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:47 PM
No bitterness here at all. Actually, I'm much more concerned about my own tennis game than Justine or
Serena's. . .

:angel::angel:

Arnian
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:54 PM
I really don't see how anyone any US-based poster can have the gall to say that a homosexual champion would be accepted more. Name one single openly gay male player in tennis. There are almost none in all of sports. Martina Navratilova has finally been embraced because of her overwhelming achievements. For years, her partner was at her matches and referred to as her "long-time friend". Much progress has been made for gays and lesbians, indeed. It's not to say that there is no racism still either, but think long and hard about this: Many white people including myself proudly voted for our first biracial president. Nevertheless, gays and lesbians in the majority of US States can be fired from their jobs and denied to right to marry the person they love. We cannot openly serve our own country in the military. We still endure daily attacks in our schools by kids saying "that's so gay" about anything that they want to insult. We are still being murdered and bashed on a frequent basis for just holding our partner's hand in public. Racism also goes in both directions, mind you. Many European and, specifically, Russian tourists have been raped and killed in Goa, India recently simply due to their skin color. Albinos are being tortured and EATEN BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE in Africa. Some of you don't want to talk about racism against people with lighter skin color because it doesn't suit your agenda. Recently a boy was beaten to death in a school in America by dark-skinned kids because the boy was a ginger (that is, to say, very fair complected with red hair.) The kids ganged up on him and beat him because he was a ginger. We have had violence also in the news against gay and transgendered kids. All of it is sick and painful and evil. None of us has any right to claim that his or her own suffering is worse than others'. NOT NOW OR EVER! I went through being spat upon, gay-bashed with a baseball bat and fired from a job for being gay. My own brother won't speak to me. Don't talk to me about gay people being acceptable. :fiery:

I have gone through the same experiences myself and the US is not the best place in the world for the acceptance of gay people. It depends where you live and what state you're in, but still.

It honestly blows my mind that there has never been an openly gay male tennis player before. Half the time I find myself wishing that Nadal was gay :haha:

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:59 AM
This.


Hopefully one day we will all be able to (at the very least, PRETEND TO) accept each other (in public). It really is a shame though, that as far as we've come, as human kind, that we're still very closed-minded.

Thanks! I think it is why I really identify with Justine a lot. She is like the little train that could. She lost her mom at a young age similarly to me (I lost my father). Today, Serena was too good, but I was not one bit upset at Serena for winning. In fact, seeing Justine at peace after the match made it just fine. I watched the whole ceremony and was a little sad but not that much because Justine is doing great and losing to Serena is no disgrace. They both had some great points and it was very classy of Serena to say that it could have gone either way. Justine and Serena really seem to respect each other. It seems like in this tournament we see a more serena Serena who may learned how to control her emotions after her outburst. Justine also seems much more relaxed and open and at peace than in the past. Both seem to have been transformed by recent experiences, yet they remain good players and competitors. Perhaps, for Justine, having spent time in the Congo and having done charity work there and having time alone puts the importance of a tennis match in perspective? Certainly, Serena would have had some thinking to do about her own reactions under stress. That can't be a bad thing.

I really have vowed to myself to stop criticizing Serena for past behaviours that upset me. What would be the point of disliking a player or person whom I don't even know?? Of course, I will root for Justine because I just like her game and her spirit despite her past mistakes.

As far as humanity goes... well I am not so optimistic but not overly pessmistic either. It's all about people learning to forgive and stop judging so harshly. Humans are MEANT to make mistakes. We just do.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:01 AM
I have gone through the same experiences myself and the US is not the best place in the world for the acceptance of gay people. It depends where you live and what state you're in, but still.

It honestly blows my mind that there has never been an openly gay male tennis player before. Half the time I find myself wishing that Nadal was gay :haha:

I want Djokovic to be gay but I know that Serbia is really not very tolerant of gays. :sad: I really hope Andy Murray isn't gay though because he kind of annoys me LOL.

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:45 AM
It's just individuals, I wouldn't base it on the fanbases....just poor representations (and some gang up together and spur each other on).
For the most part both fanbases are fine and reacted very respectfully and maturely to the game.

tennisIlove09
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:51 AM
2003 Roland Garros.

LightWarrior
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:47 AM
Because they're such opposites, the same way Chris Evert and Nav were such opposites, the same way Monica and Graf were such opposites. That's what a great rivalry is about.

Polikarpov
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:51 AM
It's sports. They are rivals. We are fans.

Is it so hard to understand?

This. It makes perfect sense.

Joe.
Jan 31st, 2010, 08:32 AM
im not a serena fan, but i will cheer for her everytime when she plays justine.

kiwifan
Jan 31st, 2010, 08:59 AM
There isn't any more bitterness than normal :shrug:

And if people are gonna create moronic threads then after big wins those threads are gonna be bumped and their words shoved down their fucking throats.

makes sense to me...and for the record, I do that without "bitterness" :nerner:

gentenaire
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:31 AM
makes sense to me...and for the record, I do that without "bitterness" :nerner:

And I'm not bitter when those threads are bumped because I never get why they start these kind of threads in the first place. Surely they know those threads are going to bite them in the a**?

dymmot
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:53 AM
I want Djokovic to be gay but I know that Serbia is really not very tolerant of gays. :sad: I really hope Andy Murray isn't gay though because he kind of annoys me LOL.

Djokovic acts like a bit of a cry baby drma queen nancy boy.

Fair point.

But there is fine line between dismissing everyhing as racial paranoia and examining things on a case by case basis.

Everything is not false claim of racism, just like everything does not ahve racist motive.
I think every often poster who everything as false claim no longer make the effort consider "the fact of the case"


I am aware of this and was told it is worse in Italy, when a team loses, their own fans will call black players monkeys and make monkey gesture complete with bananas in hand.

This is true. I think people are jealous that after retiring from tennis, Serena and Venus can afford to sit back and enjoy the Portch monkey lifestyle of doing nothing.

cehowardrx7
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:56 PM
Through the length of my years, I have found out that HATERS don't have a LIFE. ;)

To the haters and I am talking mostly about the Williams Sisters Haters ( a real sad bunch)their life mainly consist of coming on this board and bitching about the sisters..:)

You see it all the time.. We need to PITY the HATERS..Cause this is the ONLY life they have....:lol:

kiwifan
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:08 PM
And I'm not bitter when those threads are bumped because I never get why they start these kind of threads in the first place. Surely they know those threads are going to bite them in the a**?

Me and Tine have been on the opposite sides of this "conflict" for most of her life :tape: :p :tape: and I feel no bitterness towards her and her garlic paste; I only feel sad that she could be so wrong for so long. :devil:

I felt in the beginning before there were "Bellgims" here...it was the Martians who would condescend toward Sister Fans..."we only like them because they're black and of course we're all black...we don't like tennis we just like Venus and Serena...the Sisters are brainless ball bashers who know nothing about tennis" (note: if they knew anything about Serena, they'd know she was a moonballer growing up and didn't start slugging the ball until later)...etc...

I felt that when those Martians lost their Chucky, they started getting behind "anyone but the Sisters" and the last fighter they can really hang their hat on is poor little Christine...who's just minding her own business trying to do anything and everything she can to win on the court and didn't ask for all this "she's the real tennis player" "save the game" bullshit, which of course insinuates that Serena isn't a real tennis player and the game needs saving from her. This of course brings the old Martian garbage full circle. :lol:

Sure there are some straight up trolls on both sides as well and people who love to feed the trolls (when you are always arguing with the idiots, you become one yourself) but for the most part any real conflict from real fans is really about three things Justine's antics (hand/quitting AO/quitting tennis)/Serena's deficit of French Open titles/if Justine is the better tennis player why isn't she getting Serena's results? ;)

I left out Serena's "arrogance" because that's not a Belgian thing; that's a WTAworld thing. :tape: :lol:

miffedmax
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:28 PM
Back in the day there was all sorts of unspoken and outspoken prejudice against Martina, including people supporting Chris Evert because she was "a real woman."

A lot of that happened before my brother came out, so I wasn't as attuned to it then as I am now and can't cite chapter and verse, but there were plenty of incidence and plenty of hate. The bottom line is that two wrongs don't make a right, and VW and SW have faced discrimination, too.

I'm only bringing this up from a tennis history point of view. People claiming that there was not bias against one of the first openly gay champions in any sport are simply...wrong.

Serenita
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:44 PM
Back in the day there was all sorts of unspoken and outspoken prejudice against Martina, including people supporting Chris Evert because she was "a real woman."

A lot of that happened before my brother came out, so I wasn't as attuned to it then as I am now and can't cite chapter and verse, but there were plenty of incidence and plenty of hate. The bottom line is that two wrongs don't make a right, and VW and SW have faced discrimination, too.

I'm only bringing this up from a tennis history point of view. People claiming that there was not bias against one of the first openly gay champions in any sport are simply...wrong.

Didnt Nav get booed, when she was playing Evert.:o

Stamp Paid
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:44 PM
There are arrogant posters from each fabase
and they keep the majoirity of the shit going LOL

Vlover
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:53 PM
didn't ask for all this "she's the real tennis player" "save the game" bullshit, which of course insinuates that Serena isn't a real tennis player and the game needs saving from her[/COLOR]. This of course brings the old Martian garbage full circle. :lol:

Justine is the better tennis player why isn't she getting Serena's results? ;)

I left out Serena's "arrogance" because that's not a Belgian thing; that's a WTAworld thing. :tape: :lol:
Thanks for putting all this in perspective. I've always maintain that most of the so called Justine fans aka Hingis fans are just investing into Justine because Hingis was unable to produce what they all hoped for.:lol: It is also interesting that Justine got burnt out like Hingis trying to stay with the Sisters then make a return. I wonder if the pressure will cause Justine to resort to substance abuse if she doesn't have a successful return as well?:tape:

Serenita
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:03 PM
people should just stop drinking this stuff


http://www.djmonkeyboy.com/clothing/haterade-logo.jpg

AkademiQ
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:03 PM
Honestly, what's the big deal? If what you feel doesn't equal what's considered nice why be fake?

gentenaire
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:11 PM
Me and Tine have been on the opposite sides of this "conflict" for most of her life :tape: :p :tape: and I feel no bitterness towards her and her garlic paste; I only feel sad that she could be so wrong for so long. :devil:

But but but, garlic paste ruuuules! I'm sure that's why Justine lost. Had she eaten garlic paste, her breath would have sent Serena 20 feet behind the baseline!

Serenita
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:11 PM
well most go overboard, and they make up half truths. or just trolling around, or to be blunt are just blind by hate.

VishaalMaria
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:12 PM
It's a tennis board, rivarly is obviously going to cause bitterness.

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 10:24 PM
Thanks! I think it is why I really identify with Justine a lot. She is like the little train that could. She lost her mom at a young age similarly to me (I lost my father). Today, Serena was too good, but I was not one bit upset at Serena for winning. In fact, seeing Justine at peace after the match made it just fine. I watched the whole ceremony and was a little sad but not that much because Justine is doing great and losing to Serena is no disgrace. They both had some great points and it was very classy of Serena to say that it could have gone either way. Justine and Serena really seem to respect each other. It seems like in this tournament we see a more serena Serena who may learned how to control her emotions after her outburst. Justine also seems much more relaxed and open and at peace than in the past. Both seem to have been transformed by recent experiences, yet they remain good players and competitors. Perhaps, for Justine, having spent time in the Congo and having done charity work there and having time alone puts the importance of a tennis match in perspective? Certainly, Serena would have had some thinking to do about her own reactions under stress. That can't be a bad thing.

I really have vowed to myself to stop criticizing Serena for past behaviours that upset me. What would be the point of disliking a player or person whom I don't even know?? Of course, I will root for Justine because I just like her game and her spirit despite her past mistakes.

As far as humanity goes... well I am not so optimistic but not overly pessmistic either. It's all about people learning to forgive and stop judging so harshly. Humans are MEANT to make mistakes. We just do.
Huh? I'm lost. Is Justine finallly out of the closet?

pov
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:09 PM
You mean Serena and Justine fans on this board

And that's the answer to your question.

PizzaMan
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:22 PM
Maybe Henin fans should get over it at long last and start giving Serena the proper respect!!!!!! :mad::armed:

Jane Lane
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:31 PM
Seriously guys, maybe we should take a page from the two players that we follow. Serena and Justine seemed to have both matured and discovered a professional respect from eachother. IMO, that's the opinion I got from this AO.

I'm not saying I haven't hated on Serena in the past...but, maybe we should do the same. Cut the crap and stop the pettiness.

Peace.

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:31 PM
Oops wrong quote. Treu in his previous post was talking about homosexuality and parental loss...so I just didn't get it...personally don't care, just was wondering if she was out the reason they were talking about it.

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:33 PM
I really don't see how anyone any US-based poster can have the gall to say that a homosexual champion would be accepted more. Name one single openly gay male player in tennis. There are almost none in all of sports. Martina Navratilova has finally been embraced because of her overwhelming achievements. For years, her partner was at her matches and referred to as her "long-time friend". Much progress has been made for gays and lesbians, indeed. It's not to say that there is no racism still either, but think long and hard about this: Many white people including myself proudly voted for our first biracial president. Nevertheless, gays and lesbians in the majority of US States can be fired from their jobs and denied to right to marry the person they love. We cannot openly serve our own country in the military. We still endure daily attacks in our schools by kids saying "that's so gay" about anything that they want to insult. We are still being murdered and bashed on a frequent basis for just holding our partner's hand in public. Racism also goes in both directions, mind you. Many European and, specifically, Russian tourists have been raped and killed in Goa, India recently simply due to their skin color. Albinos are being tortured and EATEN BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE in Africa. Some of you don't want to talk about racism against people with lighter skin color because it doesn't suit your agenda. Recently a boy was beaten to death in a school in America by dark-skinned kids because the boy was a ginger (that is, to say, very fair complected with red hair.) The kids ganged up on him and beat him because he was a ginger. We have had violence also in the news against gay and transgendered kids. All of it is sick and painful and evil. None of us has any right to claim that his or her own suffering is worse than others'. NOT NOW OR EVER! I went through being spat upon, gay-bashed with a baseball bat and fired from a job for being gay. My own brother won't speak to me. Don't talk to me about gay people being acceptable. :fiery:

Ahhh...This was the post I was talking about....

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:34 PM
^If you don't care why did you point it out? It has nothing to do with this thread.

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:38 PM
Err ummm curiosity. They were talking about homosexual champs in a Serena Justine thread. Know Serena is straight so was asking if they were talking about Justine. What's the big? This board is a pretty gay friendly environment...we can't speak candidly?

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:42 PM
Err ummm curiosity. They were talking about homosexual champs in a Serena Justine thread. Know Serena is straight so was asking if they were talking about Justine. What's the big? This board is a pretty gay friendly environment...we can't speak candidly?

Considering your feelings on Justine, you wouldn't be speaking candidly and I just read that post it had nothing to do with Justine and her sexuality....wtf?!

BlameSerena
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:51 PM
Seriously guys, maybe we should take a page from the two players that we follow. Serena and Justine seemed to have both matured and discovered a professional respect from eachother. IMO, that's the opinion I got from this AO.

I'm not saying I haven't hated on Serena in the past...but, maybe we should do the same. Cut the crap and stop the pettiness.

Peace.

Well why don't we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya then? :rolleyes:

Jane Lane
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:53 PM
Well why don't we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya then? :rolleyes:

Well wasn't that uncalled for. I'm not saying we have to get along (because believe me, I'd be the first to confess hating some posters on this board), just tone it down a bit? Honestly.

The Witch-king
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:56 PM
Me and Tine have been on the opposite sides of this "conflict" for most of her life :tape: :p :tape: and I feel no bitterness towards her and her garlic paste; I only feel sad that she could be so wrong for so long. :devil:

I felt in the beginning before there were "Bellgims" here...it was the Martians who would condescend toward Sister Fans..."we only like them because they're black and of course we're all black...we don't like tennis we just like Venus and Serena...the Sisters are brainless ball bashers who know nothing about tennis" (note: if they knew anything about Serena, they'd know she was a moonballer growing up and didn't start slugging the ball until later)...etc...

I felt that when those Martians lost their Chucky, they started getting behind "anyone but the Sisters" and the last fighter they can really hang their hat on is poor little Christine...who's just minding her own business trying to do anything and everything she can to win on the court and didn't ask for all this "she's the real tennis player" "save the game" bullshit, which of course insinuates that Serena isn't a real tennis player and the game needs saving from her. This of course brings the old Martian garbage full circle. :lol:

Sure there are some straight up trolls on both sides as well and people who love to feed the trolls (when you are always arguing with the idiots, you become one yourself) but for the most part any real conflict from real fans is really about three things Justine's antics (hand/quitting AO/quitting tennis)/Serena's deficit of French Open titles/if Justine is the better tennis player why isn't she getting Serena's results? ;)

I left out Serena's "arrogance" because that's not a Belgian thing; that's a WTAworld thing. :tape: :lol:

i had to read this twice... It reads like a damn Toni Morrison novel. So many twists and turns and metaphors and literatury stuff in there :eek:

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:57 PM
Considering your feelings on Justine, you wouldn't be speaking candidly and I just read that post it had nothing to do with Justine and her sexuality....wtf?!
My feelings...I don't have any feelings about her...just don't like her. Has nothing to do w/her sexuality though...and ur right...The post doesn't mention who they r speaking of but since it's in this thread I would assume it was one of them...therefore I asked. Ur not trying to imply that if she is (very likely)that, that's a bad thing are u?

sorceress
Feb 1st, 2010, 12:19 AM
My feelings...I don't have any feelings about her...just don't like her. Has nothing to do w/her sexuality though...and ur right...The post doesn't mention who they r speaking of but since it's in this thread I would assume it was one of them...therefore I asked. Ur not trying to imply that if she is (very likely)that, that's a bad thing are u?

Nice try, that's what you appear to be implying and I gotcha', LOL@trying to pin it on me too...you obviously don't read any of my posts.
Her sexuality is irrelevent, and I have no idea why you felt the need to bring it up.

Serena y Monica
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:46 AM
Well obviously I wanted to know, and don't have a need to justify asking a question whether u like it or not...I posted the wrong quote initially...then reposted the one that made me question what the writer was talking about. U got a problem w/that...deal with it.

sorceress
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:50 AM
Well obviously I wanted to know, and don't have a need to justify asking a question whether u like it or not...I posted the wrong quote initially...then reposted the one that made me question what the writer was talking about. U got a problem w/that...deal with it.

You do have to justify and you still haven't, instead you try to bring attitude and you just look like an idiot.
I'm sure you only brought up the 'coming out of the closet' thing for a knock on Justine, which is kind of homophobic if you ask me.

tennisphilia
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:51 AM
I'm both a Serena and a Justine fan.
I understand the side from the Justine camp.
It's not easy to be #2.

But again, it's not Serena's fault that she has won more Slams than Justine. In fact, why can't people realize that Henin is an overachiever and Serena is an underachiever? If Serena can just match Justine in terms of hard work and effort put into tennis, then Serena would undoubtedly won more Slams.

Then again, for Justine to have kept her level too high - she had to burn out. And that's what Justine admitted.

The fans? I'm not sure why there is this too much bitterness. It's laughable. Not even Justine and Serena is that bitter.

PlayByPlay
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:54 AM
That is so true at the end of the day we are One Tennis Loving Family.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 1st, 2010, 02:07 AM
I liked Justine until "The Hand." Then Carlos made it worse with his asinine comments, which - given he's her mentor, guru, brain, svengali - reflects directly on Juju and her character/feelings.

kiwifan
Feb 1st, 2010, 03:56 AM
i had to read this twice... It reads like a damn Toni Morrison novel. So many twists and turns and metaphors and literatury stuff in there :eek: I'll take your post literally and simply say, "Thanks". :angel:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SheepInDaBigCITY again :o :cool: :o

kiwifan
Feb 1st, 2010, 04:13 AM
Back in the day there was all sorts of unspoken and outspoken prejudice against Martina, including people supporting Chris Evert because she was "a real woman."

A lot of that happened before my brother came out, so I wasn't as attuned to it then as I am now and can't cite chapter and verse, but there were plenty of incidence and plenty of hate. The bottom line is that two wrongs don't make a right, and VW and SW have faced discrimination, too.

I'm only bringing this up from a tennis history point of view. People claiming that there was not bias against one of the first openly gay champions in any sport are simply...wrong.

In my circle of tennis players back then...we backed "Chris America" and thought Martina was another East European steroid freak...Billie Jean was a lesbian and we didn't care. :shrug:
...for you young'uns back in the Cold War days we just assumed anyone from Commieland, especially "East Germans were on the juice" while our Yankee Doodle Dandy performers just "ate Wheaties".
I didn't even really recognize Martina's humanity until I read, "I, Martina" before that she was just the enemy, a cheating enemy at that...

Cookie Power
Feb 1st, 2010, 07:32 AM
Justine fans have always been jealous of Serena.

I do have some sympathy with them though. It must be hard being a fan of a cheating, lying, quitting troll.

Matt01
Feb 1st, 2010, 11:01 AM
Justine fans have always been jealous of Serena.

I do have some sympathy with them though. It must be hard being a fan of a cheating, lying, quitting troll.


Reported.

debby
Feb 1st, 2010, 11:08 AM
I'm both a Serena and a Justine fan.
I understand the side from the Justine camp.
It's not easy to be #2.

But again, it's not Serena's fault that she has won more Slams than Justine. In fact, why can't people realize that Henin is an overachiever and Serena is an underachiever? If Serena can just match Justine in terms of hard work and effort put into tennis, then Serena would undoubtedly won more Slams.

Then again, for Justine to have kept her level too high - she had to burn out. And that's what Justine admitted.

The fans? I'm not sure why there is this too much bitterness. It's laughable. Not even Justine and Serena is that bitter.

Overachieved ? Wow.
So Nadal overachieved also?

I don't see where hard work is overachieving, I find it insulting you know. Serena works hard as hell you know :rolleyes: As if she won Slams without going to gym, training....

Vlover
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:42 PM
Reported.
Poor little matt!:baby: Always has to run to "mommy" for help.:help: What a whuz!:rolleyes:

2Black
Feb 1st, 2010, 02:45 PM
I would love for a Serena fan to marry a Henin fan ... That marriage would be equivalent to a Yankees fan marrying a Redsox fan or Ohio State/Michigan ... PURE DRAMA :lol:

Dandy_Warhol
Feb 1st, 2010, 02:56 PM
for the record, i'm not bitter:angel:

i'm not a Serena fan but i respect her and everything she has achieved and defied.

tennisphilia
Feb 1st, 2010, 04:11 PM
Overachieved ? Wow.
So Nadal overachieved also?

I don't see where hard work is overachieving, I find it insulting you know. Serena works hard as hell you know :rolleyes: As if she won Slams without going to gym, training....

YES, Henin is an over-achiever. Not sure how that can be insulting. She's slightly built, and the power she generates from such a small frame can only be maintained short term. That's why she works so hard just to keep her level up. She's been over-achieving with what she has.

I'm not saying she doesn't have talent - but let's face it. Today's game favors the bigger and stronger players. You can always teach a bigger and stronger player to move better and have better shot selection, but you can never teach a smaller player to become bigger.

No insults here - it's just the facts.

gentenaire
Feb 1st, 2010, 08:27 PM
I would love for a Serena fan to marry a Henin fan ... That marriage would be equivalent to a Yankees fan marrying a Redsox fan or Ohio State/Michigan ... PURE DRAMA :lol:

It would make a great musical too: Court Side Story

(when you're a jet)

When you win a set
You've a set, you're halfway
From your very first shot
till your last dyin' day

When you win a set
It splits the fans
you got sisters around
they're all in the stands

You're never alone
You're never disconnected
etc.

gentenaire
Feb 1st, 2010, 08:31 PM
Maria
The most shrieking sound I ever heard
Maria, Maria, Maria,...
All the most awful sounds of the world in a single grunt
Maria, Maria, Maria, Maria,...
Maria,
We all heard the girl name Maria,
And suddenly the game
will never be the same
to my ears
Maria
I just beat a girl named Maria,
and suddenly I found
how wonderful that feels
Maria
When she the ball hards, you can no longer hear music playing
when she hits it harder, everyone starts praying

Maria,
please stop shrieking, Maria!

patfan#1
Feb 1st, 2010, 08:37 PM
I don't think there any more bad feelings than any other opposing fans bases who wittnesed higly constested match.

However, there 2 issues that will not dies as long Justine fan pretend they do not exist.

The illegal coaching, and "The Hand Incidecnt". Yea the Hand Incident.

I don't need to expand the illegal coaching beause all posters know about.

The Hand Incident is included, because the illegal coaching pattern strikes the same theme of cheating that WS Fans had accused Henin of following The Hand Incident .

I AGREE! I was there! I saw the hand and i will not forget that.

mdterp01
Feb 1st, 2010, 09:20 PM
This back and forth about "the hand" incident needs to finally be put in perspective. Look...had Serena done it SHE'D STILL be trying to live it down from Justine fans so please stop with the whoa is me why can't some Serena fans get over it ok? I'm not even tryin to hear that BS. I've pretty much gotten over it, but will never forget it and thats why I've always liked Justine the player but not so much the person. Thats just me.

But, right around the time that Justine retired the first time I was actually starting to warm up to her personality. She seemed to find peace after her divorce, was playing the best tennis of her career, and had reconnected with her family, which was wonderful for her. I have a huge family and have been supported by their love and strength and support so I felt great for her that she was able to reconnect with them. But, the French Open incident is what it is. It was grimy and cowardly but it was 2003 and Serena has done fine since then. We'll never know if Serena would've gone on to win that match even if it didn't happen so whatever. I think because Serena only has one French Open, many Serena fans believe that she would've gone on to win that match and the tournament and have had at least 2 French Opens. Again...we'll never know. It happened and Serena was unable to focus and get over it in the moment. But, Justine did it, LIED about it, and Serena fans have the right to STILL gripe about it if they want...point, blank, PERIOD!!!

sorceress
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:04 AM
Poor little matt!:baby: Always has to run to "mommy" for help.:help: What a whuz!:rolleyes:
Like they didn't deserve it:rolleyes:

YES, Henin is an over-achiever. Not sure how that can be insulting. She's slightly built, and the power she generates from such a small frame can only be maintained short term. That's why she works so hard just to keep her level up. She's been over-achieving with what she has.

I'm not saying she doesn't have talent - but let's face it. Today's game favors the bigger and stronger players. You can always teach a bigger and stronger player to move better and have better shot selection, but you can never teach a smaller player to become bigger.

No insults here - it's just the facts.
Bigger doesn't = Stronger, and she isn't that slight, she's actually 5'6....how tall is Darren Sproles???
But I do get what you mean.




Yes I have a small person complex:hysteric:

tennisphilia
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:24 AM
BECAUSE Justine's Fans are JEALOUS of Serena's more accomplished career.

Serena has won 12 Grand Slams in singles and 11 in doubles.
Justine just has 7 singles and ZERO doubles.

Jealousy always leads to bitterness and conflict. :p

Dandy_Warhol
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:49 AM
^i'm not jealous:wavey:

The Crow
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:21 AM
I'm not saying she doesn't have talent - but let's face it. Today's game favors the bigger and stronger players. You can always teach a bigger and stronger player to move better and have better shot selection, but you can never teach a smaller player to become bigger.


I think that's rubbish. Lindsay had good shot selection and power and still, once Justine figured her game out she won against her. And Lindsay is a slam winner. Justine wins easily against a lot of hard hitters. Teaching better shot selection is not that easy. The same with better moving. And a small player can bulk up (again Justine is the prime example).

If anything, what you say is insulting to Serena.

Matt01
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:01 AM
I think that's rubbish.


You think it rubbish, I know it's rubbish.

freeandlonely
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:54 PM
YES, Henin is an over-achiever. Not sure how that can be insulting. She's slightly built, and the power she generates from such a small frame can only be maintained short term. That's why she works so hard just to keep her level up. She's been over-achieving with what she has.

I'm not saying she doesn't have talent - but let's face it. Today's game favors the bigger and stronger players. You can always teach a bigger and stronger player to move better and have better shot selection, but you can never teach a smaller player to become bigger.

No insults here - it's just the facts.

so, overachiever is a good word

Diesel
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:38 PM
Neither side is trying to change the status quo so there's no problem here.

mashafann
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:59 PM
Because it's fun.

Chrissie-fan
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:13 PM
You always have a lot of bickering between fans of the two best players. It was - and in fact still is the same with the fans of Graf and Seles, and if the internet had been around in those days it would have been the same with the fans of Evert and Navratilova, King and Court and probably even Lenglen and Wills. Twenty years from now those Serena and Justine fans will be posting on the Blast From The Past board and not all, but many of them will admit that their fave's rival was actually a great player and if it weren't for her they wouldn't have all those precious memories of when those two fought for the throne. ;)

Vlover
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:50 PM
Like they didn't deserve it:rolleyes:
Matt is such a coward.:rolleyes: He just runs around irritating and picking fights and when people retaliate he resorts to giving red dots and allow other people to fight for him. Grow a pair and stop being such a whuz!:tape:
Lindsay had good shot selection and power and still, once Justine figured her game out she won against her. And Lindsay is a slam winner. Justine wins easily against a lot of hard hitters. Teaching better shot selection is not that easy. The same with better moving. And a small player can bulk up (again Justine is the prime example)
Thanks for pointing out that statue has very little to do with being sucessful in tennis. Successful players have come in all shapes and sizes in tennis. What matters most is mazimizing your skill sets to your benefit and explointing opponents weaknesses therefore all the discrediting of players strength is just :bs:
You always have a lot of bickering between fans of the two best players. It was - and in fact still is the same with the fans of Graf and Seles, and if the internet had been around in those days it would have been the same with the fans of Evert and Navratilova, King and Court and probably even Lenglen and Wills. Twenty years from now those Serena and Justine fans will be posting on the Blast From The Past board and not all, but many of them will admit that their fave's rival was actually a great player and if it weren't for her they wouldn't have all those precious memories of when those two fought for the throne. ;)
I concur totally! That is what sports is all about.:yeah:

kiwifan
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:43 PM
You always have a lot of bickering between fans of the two best players. It was - and in fact still is the same with the fans of Graf and Seles, and if the internet had been around in those days it would have been the same with the fans of Evert and Navratilova, King and Court and probably even Lenglen and Wills. Twenty years from now those Serena and Justine fans will be posting on the Blast From The Past board and not all, but many of them will admit that their fave's rival was actually a great player and if it weren't for her they wouldn't have all those precious memories of when those two fought for the throne. ;)

I only began admitting that about Navrat a few years ago. :devil:

Chris Evert forever!!! :inlove:

Nicolás89
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:48 PM
I think it have much to do with a raised hand. I could be wrong though.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:05 PM
...if the internet had been around in those days it would have been the same with the fans of Evert and Navratilova...
:lol: Those arguments would have been EPIC online!

To this day, my wife and her siblings HATE Martina because it seemed she never gave Chrissy credit for the win. (sound familiar?)

The fact is, as much as I can't stand Juju (and I can't), I deeply respect her game, especially now that she's more aggressive. That said, I still can't stand her.

As for her fans, I generally have no ill feelings for any of them. Honestly. Some of them I enjoy discussing things with and think they're classy posters. With the exception of one or two. See Vlover's post below.

Matt is such a coward.:rolleyes: He just runs around irritating and picking fights and when people retaliate he resorts to giving red dots and allow other people to fight for him. Grow a pair and stop being such a whuz!:tape:
I agree with this, but I don't even know if he is REALLY a Henin fan (I don't want to insult them like that). I've never seen him declare himself FOR anything, always AGAINST someone, usually Serena. He stalks other posters simply for the sake of being an irritant. IF he is a Henin fan, he's the only one I have real issues with, and even those are generally out weighed by the fact that I ultimately find him amusing in a clownish kind of way.


note to Matt: anxiously awaiting my red dot. :lol:

Olórin
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:10 PM
he's the only one I have real issues with, and even those are generally out weighed by the fact that I ultimately find him amusing in a clownish kind of way.

Oh Matt is the board clown, no doubts there.

Stamp Paid
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:15 PM
:lol: Those arguments would have been EPIC online!

To this day, my wife and her siblings HATE Martina because it seemed she never gave Chrissy credit for the win. (sound familiar?)

The fact is, as much as I can't stand Juju (and I can't), I deeply respect her game, especially now that she's more aggressive. That said, I still can't stand her.

As for her fans, I generally have no ill feelings for any of them. Honestly. Some of them I enjoy discussing things with and think they're classy posters. With the exception of one or two. See Vlover's post below.


I agree with this, but I don't even know if he is REALLY a Henin fan (I don't want to insult them like that). I've never seen him declare himself FOR anything, always AGAINST someone, usually Serena. He stalks other posters simply for the sake of being an irritant. IF he is a Henin fan, he's the only one I have real issues with, and even those are generally out weighed by the fact that I ultimately find him amusing in a clownish kind of way.Hes not a Henin fan
I highly doubt that moby or Lady or Apoleb would claim him :lol:

Bounty Hunter
Feb 2nd, 2010, 07:19 PM
You always have a lot of bickering between fans of the two best players. It was - and in fact still is the same with the fans of Graf and Seles, and if the internet had been around in those days it would have been the same with the fans of Evert and Navratilova, King and Court and probably even Lenglen and Wills. Twenty years from now those Serena and Justine fans will be posting on the Blast From The Past board and not all, but many of them will admit that their fave's rival was actually a great player and if it weren't for her they wouldn't have all those precious memories of when those two fought for the throne. ;)


:yeah:

Vlover
Feb 2nd, 2010, 08:37 PM
note to Matt: anxiously awaiting my red dot. :lol:[/SIZE]
Yea, you have a few of those types running loose around that have no fave in particular but latch themselves to anyone who seem to pose a challenge to any of the Sisters plus the aka Hingis fans who were left weeping at the alter. Personally I'm glad Justine was chosen to fill the void because my feelings for Hingis are easily transferred to Justine.:lol:

tennisbum79
Feb 2nd, 2010, 10:58 PM
I think it have much to do with a raised hand. I could be wrong though.
You're onto something, but I see it a little diffrently.

It it were just The Hand Incident, I think most fans (non- WS fan included) would have let it go a long time ago.
But compounding that with the illegal coaching (dating back to 2007 and continuing to this day) has established a pattern/theme of cheating in the Carlos-Justine team that irks many fans.

On top of that, Carlos has a quiet defiant attitude about this, almost daring umpires to challenge him by continuing to do despite reports on TV or/and prints.

That sentiment is echoed by some, not all, Justine fans here through staments like.

" she is not the only who does it, everybody does. Punishing is signling her out and thas is unfair "
"I have not seen while I watch her matches, so I don't think there anyhing there"
"If it were an issue, why don't umpire give her a warning or code violation, infering it does not really exist"
"Newspaper write what they want to write" when you point out several articles have been written about this dating back to 2007
"TV shows what they want to show" when you point out that TV commentators in both US and Europe have brought this up during their telecast.
"Did they play only 2 games" when you point there were 2 instances of illegal coaching is as many games duing the macth
The quesion is Justine is a great champion, why does she needs this, this embarrasment?

Carlos has addressed that issue somewhere a couple of years ago.
He said, and I paraphrase, Justine is a great palyers, but she is very fragile emotionaly.
She needs constant reinforcement to keep going when things get iffy.

Some Justine fasn have takeen this to say that what Carlos is doing, is not really coaching, he providing emotional support to Justine who needs.

sorceress
Feb 3rd, 2010, 12:25 AM
Matt is such a coward.:rolleyes: He just runs around irritating and picking fights and when people retaliate he resorts to giving red dots and allow other people to fight for him. Grow a pair and stop being such a whuz!:tape:
Well I'd agree with you, but I've never actually seen that poster in particular post anything constructive and it gets a little tiresome coming into threads and seeing one specific person spew troll like vitrol.
Yea, you have a few of those types running loose around that have no fave in particular but latch themselves to anyone who seem to pose a challenge to any of the Sisters plus the aka Hingis fans who were left weeping at the alter. Personally I'm glad Justine was chosen to fill the void because my feelings for Hingis are easily transferred to Justine.:lol:
I'd hope that you're aren't actually refering to me?

Nicolás89
Feb 3rd, 2010, 12:53 AM
Yea, you have a few of those types running loose around that have no fave in particular but latch themselves to anyone who seem to pose a challenge to any of the Sisters plus the aka Hingis fans who were left weeping at the alter. Personally I'm glad Justine was chosen to fill the void because my feelings for Hingis are easily transferred to Justine.:lol:

You sound like a person full of bitterness. :)

Nicolás89
Feb 3rd, 2010, 12:54 AM
Well I'd agree with you, but I've never actually seen that poster in particular post anything constructive and it gets a little tiresome coming into threads and seeing one specific person spew troll like vitrol.

I'd hope that you're aren't actually refering to me?

He's referring to all Hingis' fans. :shrug:

gentenaire
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:04 AM
"I have not seen while I watch her matches, so I don't think there anyhing there"


Can you show me who wrote this regarding the coaching?
Those comments refer to the claims that she supposedly looks up to Carlos after every single point. This is something that a few Williams fans keep repeating, yet it's simply not true.

It's not because you repeat something often enough, that it suddenly becomes a fact.

BuTtErFrEnA
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:24 AM
you mean like how you people constantly repeat serena is this classes, arrogant woman :D you mean like how ya'll repeat it all the time and hope it becomes true??

ws fans repeat it cause it's true...almost every commentator or journalist, even in their gushing over jh, always tend to mention the one draw back they find, which is the fact that she always looks up to carlos and sometimes he's giving her little signals, e.g. him mimicking a ball toss during the past AO to tell her what was wrong with her serve...:shrug: if carillo can admit something wrong with jh then it's more than likely true

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:33 AM
You're onto something, but I see it a little diffrently.

It it were just The Hand Incident, I think most fans (non- WS fan included) would have let it go a long time ago.
But compounding that with the illegal coaching (dating back to 2007 and continuing to this day) has established a pattern/theme of cheating in the Carlos-Justine team that irks many fans.

On top of that, Carlos has a quiet defiant attitude about this, almost daring umpires to challenge him by continuing to do despite reports on TV or/and prints.

That sentiment is echoed by some, not all, Justine fans here through staments like.

" she is not the only who does it, everybody does. Punishing is signling her out and thas is unfair "
"I have not seen while I watch her matches, so I don't think there anyhing there"
"If it were an issue, why don't umpire give her a warning or code violation, infering it does not really exist"
"Newspaper write what they want to write" when you point out several articles have been written about this dating back to 2007
"TV shows what they want to show" when you point out that TV commentators in both US and Europe have brought this up during their telecast.
"Did they play only 2 games" when you point there were 2 instances of illegal coaching is as many games duing the macth
The quesion is Justine is a great champion, why does she needs this, this embarrasment?

Carlos has addressed that issue somewhere a couple of years ago.
He said, and I paraphrase, Justine is a great palyers, but she is very fragile emotionaly.
She needs constant reinforcement to keep going when things get iffy.

Some Justine fasn have takeen this to say that what Carlos is doing, is not really coaching, he providing emotional support to Justine who needs.


This type of bullshit really irks me about you.
All of these you wrote are just your opinions and you seem to believe they are facts that you need to castigate Justine over and over again.
Even the quotes you have in numbers aren't necessarily verbatim thus has no credibility at all.(links required for you to justify)

And please, if you think Justine is not embarass about the so-called "illegal coaching", it is because she believes it is not illegal coaching.
Much like Serena believes she didn't do anything wrong on her US Open tirade.

You don't have the right to impose your self righteousness on justine by passing judgement.

Complain to the establishment, play by the rules because there are actually rules and there are those right people who can and should actually impose those rules.

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:35 AM
you mean like how you people constantly repeat serena is this classes, arrogant woman :D you mean like how ya'll repeat it all the time and hope it becomes true??

ws fans repeat it cause it's true...almost every commentator or journalist, even in their gushing over jh, always tend to mention the one draw back they find, which is the fact that she always looks up to carlos and sometimes he's giving her little signals, e.g. him mimicking a ball toss during the past AO to tell her what was wrong with her serve...:shrug: if carillo can admit something wrong with jh then it's more than likely true

yeah much like you believe if carillo talks about these and that of the Williams sisters....
incredible!!!!!

tennisbum79
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:37 AM
Can you show me who wrote this regarding the coaching?
Those comments refer to the claims that she supposedly looks up to Carlos after every single point. This is something that a few Williams fans keep repeating, yet it's simply not true.

It's not because you repeat something often enough, that it suddenly becomes a fact.
Whar exactly are you getting at?

Are you to say she does not look up duirng matches?
Or when you saw look, you did not see Carlos coching?
Or When commenattor said Carlos was coaching, you did not see Justine looking up?

It just exhausting trying to list all possibilities to prevent you from parsing words.

Blame the TV commentators and print reporters for talking and reporting about it, not WS fans.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:39 AM
This type of bullshit really irks me about you.
All of these you wrote are just your opinions and you seem to believe they are facts that you need to castigate Justine over and over again.
Even the quotes you have in numbers aren't necessarily verbatim thus has no credibility at all.(links required for you to justify)

And please, if you think Justine is not embarass about the so-called "illegal coaching", it is because she believes it is not illegal coaching.
Much like Serena believes she didn't do anything wrong on her US Open tirade.

You don't have the right to impose your self righteousness on justine by passing judgement.

Complain to the establishment, play by the rules because there are actually rules and there are those right people who can and should actually impose those rules.
Serena has said NUMEROUS times that she shouldn't have lost her cool and she was wrong for doing it. She has said it in the context of knowing little kids are watching and acknowledging the importance of being a role model.

Has Justine ever acknowledged she was wrong?

tennisbum79
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:41 AM
This type of bullshit really irks me about you.
All of these you wrote are just your opinions and you seem to believe they are facts that you need to castigate Justine over and over again.
Even the quotes you have in numbers aren't necessarily verbatim thus has no credibility at all.(links required for you to justify)

And please, if you think Justine is not embarass about the so-called "illegal coaching", it is because she believes it is not illegal coaching.
Much like Serena believes she didn't do anything wrong on her US Open tirade.

You don't have the right to impose your self righteousness on justine by passing judgement.

Complain to the establishment, play by the rules because there are actually rules and there are those right people who can and should actually impose those rules.
Those are actually from discussion thread on this board.

Sorry.

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:45 AM
Those are actually from discussion thread on this board.

Sorry.

Not really, i you need to quote something it has to be verbatum, and i believ those aren't.

Sorry... unless you can provide links.....

phelbyn
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:49 AM
A nice topic! I'll be honest, I'd cheer for Justine before Serena. HOWEVER... when you talk about tennis and ability, people need to get over their preferences and appreciate the quality of tennis. There's no doubt that Serena is an amazing talent, and one of the few consistencies in the game right now. It's good for her that she has new opponents in the form of Clijsters and Henin. Their tennis can only inspire Serena to continue to improve/maintain her talents.

My only issue with Serena is her excessive intensity at times... but I'm mature enough to overlook that and appreciate her skills.

There sure is a lot of passion on this forum. Not a bad thing... unless it get insulting.

phelbyn
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:50 AM
Serena has said NUMEROUS times that she shouldn't have lost her cool and she was wrong for doing it. She has said it in the context of knowing little kids are watching and acknowledging the importance of being a role model.

Has Justine ever acknowledged she was wrong?

Serena was on Ellen today. She was a class-act and VERY mature when Ellen brought up the US Open. Good on Serena! What's in the past is in the past.

tennisbum79
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:52 AM
Not really, i you need to quote something it has to be verbatum, and i believ those aren't.

Sorry... unless you can provide links.....
I am not going to play that game with you. It is designed to derail the disuccssion.
Some Justine fans don't even accept articles written about this.

Look at all the several threads, created the last 4 days on this topic and you will find those.

As DOUBLEFIST stated, Serena has apologized for her tirade and paid the fine.

I am also on record for saying she was wrong. However I refused to call it attempted murder as some posters have done.

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 02:55 AM
Serena was on Ellen today. She was a class-act and VERY mature when Ellen brought up the US Open. Good on Serena! What's in the past is in the past.

Exactly, what is in the past is in the past much like the "hand incident" that some
people needs to brought up everytime the name justine rings.

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:00 AM
I am not going to play that game with you. It is designed to derail the disuccssion.
Some Justine fans don't even accept articles written about this.

Look at all the several threads, created the last 4 days on this topic and you will find those.

As DOUBLEFIST stated, Serena has apologized for her tirade and paid the fine.

I am also on record for saying she was wrong. However I refused to call it attempted murder as some posters have done.

You don't have to because you can't...that is all i am saying.
and what discussion are we having... who is derailing... this topic was rehashed a hundred couple times and here you are playing like a looped record.
the same shit argument...it is not even worth be called argument...

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:06 AM
...ahem, Oh Junex...

Serena has said NUMEROUS times that she shouldn't have lost her cool...

Has Justine ever acknowledged she was wrong?

Your reply?

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:17 AM
...ahem, Oh Junex...



Your reply?

I am sorry my reply got lost.. i don't know what happened.

Justne did actually admitted she did made a wrong dicision in 2003 FO re: the hand incident..
you can read that in her interviews in 2007.


BTW, this is exactly what i wrote in my previous reply to you that got lost:


Say publicity!

Regarding the Hand Incident , Justine actually made amends.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:29 AM
I am sorry my reply got lost.. i don't know what happened.

Justne did actually admitted she did made a wrong dicision in 2003 FO re: the hand incident..
you can read that in her interviews in 2007.


BTW, this is exactly what i wrote in my previous reply to you that got lost:


Say publicity!

Regarding the Hand Incident , Justine actually made amends.
Alright, cool.

"publicity" could be said Justine's statement re: "The Hand" incident, too. But, tell me, did Justine mean she was "wrong" about not admitting she raised her hand or "wrong" for raising her hand at all? Just Curious. I'd love to see what she said.

DA FOREHAND
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:34 AM
Exactly, what is in the past is in the past much like the "hand incident" that some
people needs to brought up everytime the name justine rings.

what Serena did was unsportsmanlike, what justine did was cheating and unsportsmanlike.:wavey:

DA FOREHAND
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:39 AM
"I am sorry my reply got lost.. i don't know what happened.

Justne did actually admitted she did made a wrong dicision in 2003 FO re: the hand incident..
you can read that in her interviews in 2007.


BTW, this is exactly what i wrote in my previous reply to you that got lost:


Say publicity!

Regarding the Hand Incident , Justine actually made amends."


Wow and it only took four years. Oh and that was four years after Carlos admitted had her opponent not been Serena Williams, justine would have fessed up.


What was the name of the girl that quit in the middle of a Grand Slam final because she was getting throttled, and had a tummy ache?

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:46 AM
Alright, cool.

"publicity" could be said Justine's statement re: "The Hand" incident, too. But, tell me, did Justine mean she was "wrong" about not admitting she raised her hand or "wrong" for raising her hand at all? Just Curious. I'd love to see what she said.

She doesn't have to say she was wrong because at that time it was the umpires call.
She said she did a mistake by not saying anything, fault by ommission.

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:47 AM
"I am sorry my reply got lost.. i don't know what happened.

Justne did actually admitted she did made a wrong dicision in 2003 FO re: the hand incident..
you can read that in her interviews in 2007.


BTW, this is exactly what i wrote in my previous reply to you that got lost:


Say publicity!

Regarding the Hand Incident , Justine actually made amends."


Wow and it only took four years. Oh and that was four years after Carlos admitted had her opponent not been Serena Williams, justine would have fessed up.


What was the name of the girl that quit in the middle of a Grand Slam final because she was getting throttled, and had a tummy ache?

You should read your signature, that quote from Bernard Shaw...
yeah.. you really should...

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 03:50 AM
what Serena did was unsportsmanlike, what justine did was cheating and unsportsmanlike.:wavey:

cheat a first serve?
---------deleted-----------
my apologies to jen fans...

tennisphilia
Feb 3rd, 2010, 04:02 AM
why didn't you attack Jennifer the same as how you attack Justine?

Kabayan. Ano naman ang kinalaman ni Jennifer sa usapan na ito?

Junex
Feb 3rd, 2010, 04:50 AM
Kabayan. Ano naman ang kinalaman ni Jennifer sa usapan na ito?

sensya na kabayan i have my reasons but i realized its not worth it..
i will delete my post now.

ur pinoy pala!
nice to know!


:wavey:

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 3rd, 2010, 06:01 AM
She doesn't have to say she was wrong because at that time it was the umpires call.
She said she did a mistake by not saying anything, fault by ommission.
Alright. I'd love to read her comment. Any idea where I can find it?

btw, is that tagalog?

Matt01
Feb 3rd, 2010, 09:22 AM
Hes not a Henin fan



Don't tell me of which players I'm a fan of and of which players I'm not. :rolleyes:

tennisphilia
Feb 5th, 2010, 03:12 AM
so, overachiever is a good word

It's not? It's a testament for Justine to have made the most (and more) of what she has.
Serena hasn't.

supergrunt
Feb 5th, 2010, 03:18 AM
I think that everyone knew that if Serena ever met Justine in a final that Serena would win.

tennisphilia
Feb 5th, 2010, 03:26 AM
Serena hasn't.

At least, not yet. Serena will overachieve if she wins 30. If she wins ONLY 28 - she hasn't reached her potential.

DOUBLEFIST
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:43 AM
I think that everyone knew that if Serena ever met Justine in a final that Serena would win.
:lol: I don't recall YOU being so sure.

bandabou
Feb 5th, 2010, 06:59 AM
Some Henin-fans have been blah blahing too much. That's why.

Matt01
Feb 5th, 2010, 10:41 AM
I think that everyone knew that if Serena ever met Justine in a final that Serena would win.


Yeah right :lol: And Justine only made it to 3 sets because Serena was injured :tape:

bandabou
Feb 5th, 2010, 11:20 AM
Why do u keep blah blah about injury?