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View Full Version : For those who would like to pretend Justine


Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:38 PM
Looks to her box only for encouragement. Carlos got caught on camera mimicking a ball toss pointing his finger up and mouthing get the ball up...then something else to Justine in the first set right after she broke Serena before the commercial break...can you say...cheaters!

Williams 123
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:46 PM
Henin is a cheater n a glorified clay queen

Helen Lawson
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:51 PM
They all get coaching, leave her alone. Serena leveled Carthage, no need to spread salt in the ground. Justine is back, and none too soon, first decent slam final in wh knows how long.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:53 PM
NO COMMENT LOL...i'm glad serena was able to come through reguardless of what MAY have gone on.... ;)

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:53 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.

Amanda
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:54 PM
nothing new

VishaalMaria
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:56 PM
Everyone is guilty of recieving coaching.

It's just that people in the players box just want them to do well. That's all.

mykarma
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:57 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.
Not against the rules is it? Hell, maybe losing makes her have to pee.

Serendy Willick
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:57 PM
Serena's opponents can get illegal coaching, free calls to try to piss serena off, more than likley free coaching from commentators and tennis legends alike and she can still win the match. What a great mental performance from my girl.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:58 PM
... in deference and respect for Henin, please let keep the triumphalism to a minimum.

There are lot of time ahead for these fights.
Let us put on this a hiatus just today.

Amanda
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:59 PM
The truth is the truth!

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:00 PM
They all get coaching, leave her alone. Serena leveled Carthage, no need to spread salt in the ground. Justine is back, and none too soon, first decent slam final in wh knows how long.
Well this thread isn't about the alleged all of them...It's proof positve that she and her coach are willful cheaters!

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Not against the rules is it? Hell, maybe losing makes her have to pee.

I don't know. I would assume that somewhere in the rules it is described that toilet breaks are to be used for well yeah toilet breaks only, no? ;)

And you're right, maybe she did have to go. But her timing was a bit suspicious... Or maybe she lost that end of the last set so quickly because it was that urgent ;)

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:02 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.
Actually I think she changes out of her wet clothes...lol but that would be the same...how? Yeah...me either...lol! Cause one thing is legal...the other isn't...mmmk.

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Yes, Helen, this thread is about those CHEATING BASTARDS. How dare you bring it into this thread that almost all other players do it also!

Brooklyn90
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Oh well, Serena still won!

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Actually I think she changes out of her wet clothes...lol but that would be the same...how? Yeah...me either...lol! Cause one thing is legal...the other isn't...mmmk.

Of course, it was to change her wet cloths lol. There is no way in hell, not event the slimmest of chances, that Serena thought it could break Justine's momentum. Nah.

mykarma
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Yes, Helen, this thread is about those CHEATING BASTARDS. How dare you bring it into this thread that almost all other players do it also!
Carlos is the most obvious with his cheating and the commentators think it's funny but I'm sure it wouldn't be the least bit funny if it was Richard Williams doing it. They either need to change the rules to coaching from the sidelines or enforce it.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:08 PM
I don't know. I would assume that somewhere in the rules it is described that toilet breaks are to be used for well yeah toilet breaks only, no? ;)

And you're right, maybe she did have to go. But her timing was a bit suspicious... Or maybe she lost that end of the last set so quickly because it was that urgent ;)

Assume what u like...it's making an ass of you. They are allowed to take restroom breaks...Women can't change their wet clothes on the court like the guys do...;)

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:10 PM
Just as parting shot.

One thing Justine fans can do is to write a letter to Carlos to put an end to this sort of things.

Because they(fans) are not winning the public relation debate on this.
IN fact it now bordering on embarrasment; after 2 days of denying that it happen at all, or everybody does it, then to see it on live TV again is not a good feeling.

That is my parting shot on this topic.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Of course, it was to change her wet cloths lol. There is no way in hell, not event the slimmest of chances, that Serena thought it could break Justine's momentum. Nah.


LOL...let's not cloud the issue...Carlos caught on camera mouthing instructions and giving hand signals while the cootie queen stared doe eyed at him for help...lol. Bathroom break legal...coaching illegal...i.e. cheating...

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:12 PM
They either need to change the rules to coaching from the sidelines or enforce it.

Oh but I agree with you on this one. They really should, but apparently they don't want to :confused:

I just hate threads like this where people just have to state the obvious, just because they don't like a particular player. I know my fav isn't perfect. Do you?

Temperenka
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:13 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.

But bathroom breaks are completely legal. It isn't like Serena runs off on break point to go 'peepee.'

On court coaching is illegal and a serious problem. Most players do it... it's just most prevalent in Justine's matches. :shrug:

I'd like to see her get a point penalty. It'll show her/other players that it isn't ok.

Doesn't seem to have helped her enough though. Serena is a better strategist on her own than Justine and her coach combined. :wavey:

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Just as parting shot.

One thing Justine fans can do is to write a letter to Carlos to put an end to this sort of things.

Because they(fans) are not winning the public relation debate on this.
IN fact it now bordering on embarrasment; after 2 days of denying that it happen at all, or everybody does it, then to see it on live TV again is not a good feeling.

That is my parting shot on this topic.

Seriously? Cause it's Carlos' fault that Justine is staring at him for instructions...and the letters will do what? Remind them that it's cheating...like they don't know now? I'm sure they do...

mdterp01
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Duh...she's always lookin up to her box to Carlos in a way that is freakishly creepy to me but...whatever...Serena is still DA CHAMP!!

Lady
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:15 PM
And Venus was caught on camera saying something to Serena and then covering her mouth when she noticed that camera was on her! :eek:
Maybe we can read something in that too? :eek: Or it only counts when ESPN is replaying something over and over?

Serendy Willick
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:18 PM
And Venus was caught on camera saying something to Serena and then covering her mouth when she noticed that camera was on her! :eek:
Maybe we can read something in that too? :eek: Or it only counts when ESPN is replaying something over and over?
Personally, I think all bets are off. If your coach wants to cheat, then Serena can cheat too. We all know the umpires arent gonna do anything about it.:rolleyes:

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:19 PM
Seriously? Cause it's Carlos' fault that Justine is staring at him for instructions...and the letters will do what? Remind them that it's cheating...like they don't know now? I'm sure they do...
I said that because it has been said they have a father-daughter relationship.

That leads me to believe (wrongly perhaps) that Carlos is pushing and driving this, and Justine is not saying no.

It is not a comfortbale position for Justine fans to be in. And it won't get better if nothing change.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:20 PM
Yes, Helen, this thread is about those CHEATING BASTARDS. How dare you bring it into this thread that almost all other players do it also!


Nope...it's about Justine and Carlos' cheating...they maybe bastards as well, I don't know. But I do know they cheat. Which is a shame because while it can't reflect on her character (as she has none), it does speak to her mental strength, or apparent lack there of...:wavey:

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:22 PM
I said that because it has been said they have a father-daughter relationship.

That leads me to believe (wrongly perhaps) that Carlos is pushing and driving this, and Justine is not saying.


Actually I think ur just a nice person. I've read many of your post and u seem to look for the positive. While I like to point of the truth...positive or not.

Thanx4nothin
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Justine just confuses me :s She IS mentally tough, I'll give her that, but why, therefore, does she need to look at Carlos after seemingly EVERY point? People often say it's or emotional support, but what kind of emotional support does a player of her quality need at 6-1 5-0, because even then again Zheng she was still looking up to him.

Often times he isn't doing anything I'd deem 'coaching' but today he clearly was, and it's just so blatant. It was technical advice to help her with her serve, it really shouldn't be allowed - alas, many people out there get coached and Justine gets crucified because she's so high profile and because it's so prevalent with her.

I'd love her to get a warning for it, in a small match, like her next match in a match outside the slams, it would just give her camp a different look on things perhaps, and maybe, shut people up on this issue.

As someone previously said, Serena still won, so who cares, but if she hadn't y'all would be complaining and you know it. So the problem IS there it NEEDS to be fixed. But the establishment seem happy to let it go on.

P.S. in fairness, I don't think Carlos is the worst for coaching out there. At the same time, no player to my knowledge is anywhere near as dependent on her coach as Justine Henin. Love to see her play a match without him there, just as an experiment. :)

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:25 PM
And Venus was caught on camera saying something to Serena and then covering her mouth when she noticed that camera was on her! :eek:
Maybe we can read something in that too? :eek: Or it only counts when ESPN is replaying something over and over?
yeah..."come on Serena." lol...little different that hand signals and mouthing get ur toss up...lol but trying to paint other's w/Carlos and Justine's brush is a good way to try to change the topic.

danieln1
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:25 PM
Old news, everyone know that, even that stupid umpire knows that and does nothing!

frenchie
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:28 PM
I deeply hate this guy
have you ever seen him smile??

miffedmax
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:29 PM
You have to have a real coach for this scenario to work, though.

For example, this hand motion probably isn't very helpful:

http://i47.tinypic.com/9sdiqq.jpg

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Justine just confuses me :s She IS mentally tough, I'll give her that, but why, therefore, does she need to look at Carlos after seemingly EVERY point? People often say it's or emotional support, but what kind of emotional support does a player of her quality need at 6-1 5-0, because even then again Zheng she was still looking up to him.

Often times he isn't doing anything I'd deem 'coaching' but today he clearly was, and it's just so blatant. It was technical advice to help her with her serve, it really shouldn't be allowed - alas, many people out there get coached and Justine gets crucified because she's so high profile and because it's so prevalent with her.

I'd love her to get a warning for it, in a small match, like her next match in a match outside the slams, it would just give her camp a different look on things perhaps, and maybe, shut people up on this issue.

As someone previously said, Serena still won, so who cares, but if she hadn't y'all would be complaining and you know it. So the problem IS there it NEEDS to be fixed. But the establishment seem happy to let it go on.

P.S. in fairness, I don't think Carlos is the worst for coaching out there. At the same time, no player to my knowledge is anywhere near as dependent on her coach as Justine Henin. Love to see her play a match without him there, just as an experiment. :)

Nice post. And I agree with most of what you are saying!

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:31 PM
You have to have a real coach for this scenario to work, though.

For example, this hand motion probably isn't very helpful:

http://i47.tinypic.com/9sdiqq.jpg

This is from the Justine match, right? Or is she doing this all the time?

It's sweet though :hug:

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Old news, everyone know that, even that stupid umpire knows that and does nothing!

Oh no...not everybody...many of her fans claim she doesn't do it. The few who acknoledge she does it then want to say but it's okay cause everybody does it. Well everybody doesn't and as ur mom used to say if everybody jumps of a cliff u gonna follow?

It's cheating...plain and simple. She supposed to be one of the best she shouldn't be like everybody she she be a leader. Wait entire locker room already knows she's a liar and a cheat...Oh well.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Nice post. And I agree with most of what you are saying!

OMG...thank you...cause u just admitted she does it. It's wrong, and she should be better than this.

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Personally, I think all bets are off. If your coach wants to cheat, then Serena can cheat too. We all know the umpires arent gonna do anything about it.:rolleyes:

I guess the 'if everyone jumps from a rock ...' thing doesn't apply here?

You're so full of shit.

miffedmax
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:38 PM
This is from the Justine match, right? Or is she doing this all the time?

It's sweet though :hug:

Yeah. The perfect image of what it means to be a Lena fan. The quotes got lost so I need to credit Snex for making it.

gentenaire
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:38 PM
I wonder why so many people keep saying Justine looks up to her box after every point. I don't see it. I paid close attention to it, but don't see it.
I decided to replay the signal that the thread starter mentioned. It's very quick and I wonder if Justine even saw it.

I also wonder if all those who're constantly whining about it are so perfect. Can they swear they've never parked their car where they shouldn't? Never speeded? Never called in sick for work when you weren't? Never cursed?

Thanx4nothin
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:38 PM
This is from the Justine match, right? Or is she doing this all the time?

It's sweet though :hug:

Nothing is quite so funny/sweet as poor, long suffering Mommy Vera. My GOD that poor poor woman! :sad:

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:41 PM
I guess the 'if everyone jumps from a rock ...' thing doesn't apply here?

You're so full of shit.

That post was full of shit but, let's not get it twisted...read Venus' lips she shouted encouragements..."not serve to her backhand"... She also wasn't using hand signals for play down the middle...etc.

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:42 PM
I wonder why so many people keep saying Justine looks up to her box after every point. I don't see it. I paid close attention to it, but don't see it.
I decided to replay the signal that the thread starter mentioned. It's very quick and I wonder if Justine even saw it. I don't see Carlos's incessant hand signals either. He was so subdued for most of the match until that great run from Justine.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedmax http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images2007/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=17217069#post17217069)
You have to have a real coach for this scenario to work, though.

For example, this hand motion probably isn't very helpful:

http://i47.tinypic.com/9sdiqq.jpg


Maybe my girl Demented would have won if she hadn't had to play Justine and Carlos. That's ok...She's winning wimbly...I believe.

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:48 PM
Okay say you are right. Why do you care so much about this? You clearly detest her. Maybe you should just let it go lol.

My opinion on it is that Justine/Carlos have grown into this ritual. I don't particulaly like it, you certainly don't like it, but what can you do? Hard to break out to for themselves as well, certainly since officials apparently don't care. Hell even her opponents don't care, cause noone complains :confused: And I don't think it matters that much either. I'm pretty sure that Carlos only says thing during her matches that he has said over and over again when they're practicing.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:55 PM
I don't see Carlos's incessant hand signals either. He was so subdued for most of the match until that great run from Justine.
Maybe you are sincere in saying this.

But you won't deny it has been written about as it has become pattern.
It has been mentioned in earleier rounds.
For the last 2 days before the final , there have debate about this topic, with some Justine denying it takes palce or using the everydbody does it defense.
I must add that there is a minotity of Justine who found this unncessary and embarrasing for the champion.

Until Justine team recognizes this does not help Justine image as player who can manage her game and make decision on her own , it will continue to erode her reputaion has a champion.

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Maybe you are sincere in saying this.

But you won't deny it has been written about as it has become pattern.
It has been mentioned in earleier rounds.
For the last 2 days before the final , there have debate about this topic, with some Justine denying it takes palce or using the everydbody does it defense.
I must add that there is a minotity of Justine who found this unncessary and embarrasing for the champion.I've been watching all her matches from the 2nd round (which is more than what most people accusing her can say) and I don't see it.
No really, I don't. And I don't understand why it has been written about either.
I'm sure it's been done a couple of times, just like everyone else, but incessant continuous hand signals?

She does look to him quite often, but I think it's for emotional support.
It's just a routine that she's comfortable with and helps her stay mentally settled.

Maybe someone can make a video of all these hand signals I'm woefully unaware of?

youizahoe
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:58 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.

Both did, and Justine had a bottle with her :speakles: :lol:

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:59 PM
Okay say you are right. Why do you care so much about this? You clearly detest her. Maybe you should just let it go lol.

My opinion on it is that Justine/Carlos have grown into this ritual. I don't particulaly like it, you certainly don't like it, but what can you do? Hard to break out to for themselves as well, certainly since officials apparently don't care. Hell even her opponents don't care, cause noone complains :confused: And I don't think it matters that much either. I'm pretty sure that Carlos only says thing during her matches that he has said over and over again when they're practicing.
Actually I don't care. I just hate it when people deny the obvious, or try to minimize bad actions
I don't like it Serena fans play down how obnoxious she can be. Despite the fact that I don't think she foot faulted or that what she said was the worst I've ever heard...I still think that display of anger was deplorable, nothing justifys acting that way.

Same w/Henin fans and the hand and cheating thing. Admit it was wrong then no one has to post thread after thread to prove it.

The Crow
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Same w/Henin fans and the hand and cheating thing. Admit it was wrong then no one has to post thread after thread to prove it.

Yeah right :lol:

Lady
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:02 PM
P.S. in fairness, I don't think Carlos is the worst for coaching out there. At the same time, no player to my knowledge is anywhere near as dependent on her coach as Justine Henin. Love to see her play a match without him there, just as an experiment.

Justine has played 2 tournaments without Carlos. San Diego and Toronto 2003. She won both of them including beating Kim on hard courts for the 1st time.

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:03 PM
Justine has played 2 tournaments without Carlos. San Diego and Toronto 2003. She won both of them including beating Kim on hard courts for the 1st time.Yes, but she cheated in those too.

Didn't she dope? Lei Clijsters said so, so it must be right.

Lady
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:03 PM
I've been watching all her matches from the 2nd round (which is more than what most people accusing her can say) and I don't see it.
No really, I don't. And I don't understand why it has been written about either.
I'm sure it's been done a couple of times, just like everyone else, but incessant continuous hand signals?

She does look to him quite often, but I think it's for emotional support.
It's just a routine that she's comfortable with and helps her stay mentally settled.

Maybe someone can make a video of all these hand signals I'm woefully unaware of?

Because ESPN likes to replay it over and over again apparently, and talk non-stop about it. And it seems only Justine and Carlos deserve such a attention.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:06 PM
I've been watching all her matches from the 2nd round and I don't see it. No really, I don't. And I don't understand why it has been written about either...

Well, maybe you could startby reading the articles written about this.
Again, it did not start at this Aussie open, it is a long standing pattern.
That is the very reason some the sportwritters cited in deciding to pen an article about the issue.

They found it disconcerting that a champion of Justime calliber, would need her hand to be held during matches.

She does look to him quite often, but I think it's for emotional support
It's just a routine that she's comfortable with and helps her stay mentally settled.
You are not the only one hodling that position.
Unfortunately, the facts do not support that.

Lady
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:06 PM
You have to have a real coach for this scenario to work, though.

For example, this hand motion probably isn't very helpful:

http://i47.tinypic.com/9sdiqq.jpg

I have been to several Lena's matches live, and I'm Russian. Vera often reminds Lena what to do.
During the whole Dementieva-Henin match she was saying "Hit yourself, be more aggressive" (which was pointed out by everyone who watched that match).

During one match in Berlin Vera actually said to Lena "You need to hit the line when you bounce the ball before serving" (only in Russian and shorter). Apparently that was part of the stable serving technique they were practicing on.
How is that different from Carlos reminding Justine to toss her ball higher?

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Yes, but she cheated in those too.

Didn't she dope? Lei Clijsters said so, so it must be right.

LOL! Right hand to God. When she announced her retirement...I swear I was waiting to hear about doping allegations...and not from Lei Clijsters eithers. But alas they never came:sad:

trufanjay
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:08 PM
I guess Justine needs a little guidance out there. Still didn't help help her :lol:

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Well, may you could start reading the articles written about this.
Again, it did not start at this Aussie open, it is a long standing pattern. That is the very reasons some the sportwritters cided in deciding to pen an article about the issue.I don't trust people writing articles, because I doubt they've seen 6 out of 7 of Justine's matches like I have. They probably caught wind of it and blew it out of proportion, as journalists are wont to do. And of course, journalists can be biased and partisan too.

You'd think Serena was Satan herself if you read some of the articles about her US Open outburst. Big ado about nothing.

The one article I did read had Justine in the title and went on and on about it, but by mid-article acknowledged all the coaching that goes on and said something along the lines of "Justine is just the most recent offender" (Not most serious, mind you!) I assumed the focus on Justine was just to sell articles.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Henin is so over rated....looks like Serena not at her best is good enough to beat her..i loved the post interview with Mary Jo when serena said her game looks the same....so I just had to move my feet enough said same old Henin and yes the only way she can win is too cheat can't do it on her own :p

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:12 PM
I have been to several Lena's matches live, and I'm Russian. Vera often reminds Lena what to do.
During the whole Dementieva-Henin match she was saying "Hit yourself, be more aggressive" (which was pointed out by everyone who watched that match).

During one match in Berlin Vera actually said to Lena "You need to hit the line when you bounce the ball before serving" (only in Russian and shorter). Apparently that was part of the stable serving technique they were practicing on.
How is that different from Carlos reminding Justine to toss her ball higher?
IF true it's not.

Volcana
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:18 PM
They all get coaching, leave her alone.They do NOT 'all' get coaching, bu I agree enough is enough with the cheater' crap.. The WTA and the ITF choose not to do anything about it. The other players don't complain about it. Leave be.

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:22 PM
Unfortunately, the facts do not support that.Facts are what I'm asking for.
Repeating something enough times does not make it fact.

I don't see evidence of coaching after every point.
What I'm saying is: put up (this evidence) or shut up.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:39 PM
[quote=moby;17217307]Facts are what I'm asking for.
Repeating something enough times does not make it fact.

I don't see evidence of coaching after every point.
What I'm saying is: put up (this evidence) or shut up.[/quote
The most evident example today...Carlos got caught on camera mimicking a ball toss pointing his finger up and mouthing get the ball up...then something else to Justine in the first set right after Justine broke Serena, before the commercial break...can you say...cheaters! U got it on tape? watch it...

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:40 PM
Carlos got caught on camera mimicking a ball toss pointing his finger up and mouthing get the ball up...then something else to Justine[/B] in the first set right after Justine broke Serena, before the commercial break...can you say...cheaters! U got it on tape? watch it...Once a match really doesn't cut it to be calling someone extremely reliant on coaching...
you really don't think anyone else does it once a match?

The media shows you what they want to.

As Kishan said,
Everyone is guilty of recieving coaching.

It's just that people in the players box just want them to do well. That's all.

mapaliey
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:45 PM
Duh...she's always lookin up to her box to Carlos in a way that is freakishly creepy to me but...whatever...Serena is still DA CHAMP!!
THIS
and congrats serena.....

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:49 PM
Once a match really doesn't cut it to be calling someone extremely reliant on coaching...
you really don't think anyone else does it once a match?

The media shows you what they want to.

As Kishan said,

Dear God it wasn't once...it's been happening all week...i.e all the commentators have been discussing it, and sports writers (at least 2) have written about it. U asked for an example when given one...u try to minimize:rolleyes:. U can't handle the truth!

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:52 PM
Once a match really doesn't cut it to be calling someone extremely reliant on coaching...
you really don't think anyone else does it once a match?

The media shows you what they want to.

As Kishan said,
You don't trust news papers, you don't trust TV image.
What is your source of major news?

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:56 PM
You don't trust news papers, you don't trust TV image.
What is your source of major news?I'm not sure what the source is that she's been constantly coached. And really, one video played over and over again proves nothing on that front. It shows that there was an attempt at coaching, is all. Which I have not denied.

Everyone's seen players being coached from time to time. Is this habitual for them? I don't think so. And neither is it for Justine. You really think if Justine's been coached to the extent some of you are saying, all the media would have to show are those one or two measly videos? Especially since they've a vendetta out to indict her on this front.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure what the source is that she's been constantly coached. And really, one video played over and over again proves nothing on that front. It shows that there was an attempt at coaching, is all. Which I have not denied.

Everyone's seen players being coached from time to time. Is this habitual for them? I don't think so. And neither is it for Justine. You really think if Justine's been coached to the extent some of you are saying, all the media would have to show are those one or two measly videos? Especially since they've a vendetta out to indict her on this front.
There is no vendetta or conspiracy to frame Justine.

In may knowlege, all the thread about this have relied TV commentator account not from just from the USA, mind you.

And the "evryone does it" defense or couner agrument only make thing worse.
Serena tried that, and it only made things worse for her.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:14 PM
I don't know. I would assume that somewhere in the rules it is described that toilet breaks are to be used for well yeah toilet breaks only, no? ;)

And you're right, maybe she did have to go. But her timing was a bit suspicious... Or maybe she lost that end of the last set so quickly because it was that urgent ;)
Well, unless you were in there making sure she was urinating, I suppose we'll have to take it as an item of faith, right.

At any rate, it CERTAINLY didn't hurt Juju's momentum as she came out on FIRE in the 3rd.

Vlover
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Facts are what I'm asking for.
Repeating something enough times does not make it fact.

I don't see evidence of coaching after every point.
What I'm saying is: put up (this evidence) or shut up.
I wonder if you hear it from the Justine's mouth if you would believe her.:rolleyes:
Justine Henin-Hardenne was given a warning by the chair umpire after her coach, Carlos Rodriguez, was heard shouting instructions from the side of the court late in the second set of the quarterfinal match. Henin-Hardenne didn’t deny it, and instead blatantly admitted that Rodriguez was helping her. “He told me be aggressive … go to the net,” she said, “You can tell it’s coaching. I know what I have to do, but sometimes it’s hard for me when I’m on court, in the match, to do what you know you have to do.”

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:17 PM
I wonder if you hear it from the Justine's mouth if you would believe her.:rolleyes:Did you think I would not recognise that that quote was from 2004 Indian Wells, which is a good 6 years ago?

Serena also said once about Richard's coaching: "I'm trying not to listen to him!"
That amounts to what Justine said about that Indian Wells match.

hablo
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:47 PM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.

Didn't Juju also leave the court?

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Facts are what I'm asking for.
Repeating something enough times does not make it fact.

I don't see evidence of coaching after every point.
What I'm saying is: put up (this evidence) or shut up.
Poster who watched eurosport are also reporting that their commentator mentioned the violation in 2 instances during the first set.

I hope you will not come back and suggesting it was a conspicarcy accross the ocean to frame poor Justine.

here is the thread

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=400904&page=10

hablo
Jan 30th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Both did, and Justine had a bottle with her :speakles: :lol:

I saw her leave too: on tv and on livestream. :lol:

gentenaire
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Poster who watched eurosport are also reporting that their commentator mentioned the violation in 2 instances during the first set.

I would think that more than two points were played during the first set.

Serena y Monica
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:06 PM
I would think that more than two points were played during the first set.
So what...she has to cheat every point before it really counts...I would think once is enough. You should only have to be reminded to get ur toss up and in front once a set...well actually you shouldn't have to be reminded at all during the coarse of the match...since coaching is illegal...lol!

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:03 AM
Originally Posted by gentenaire http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images2007/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=17218758#post17218758)
I would think that more than two points were played during the first set.

So what...she has to cheat every point before it really counts...I would think once is enough. You should only have to be reminded to get ur toss up and in front once a set...well actually you shouldn't have to be reminded at all during the coarse of the match...since coaching is illegal...lol!

Can you believe it?
Some posters are so adept at shifting arguments.
They don't even think about it before making them.

Now they are trying to palce an arbitrary threshold on the number of infractions before it can be allaed illgeal.
So how many they want ? 1 or 2, 3, 4 every game?
Depending on how many we settle on, there must a designated Illegal Coaching judge just to keep an eye on Carlos.
Otherwise, he'll try to beat the system again by stopping just shy of the threshold.

Serena y Monica
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by gentenaire http://imgsrv2.tennisuniverse.com/wtaworld/images2007/buttons/lastpost.gif (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?p=17218758#post17218758)
I would think that more than two points were played during the first set.



Can you believe it?
Some posters are so adept at shifting arguments.
They don't even think about it before making them.

Now they are trying to palce an arbitrary threshold on the number of infractions before it can be allaed illgeal.
So how many they want ? 1 or 2, 3, 4 every game?
Depending on how many we settle on, there must a designated Illegal Coaching judge just to keep an eye on Carlos.
Otherwise, he'll try to beat the system again by stopping just shy of the threshold.
.
ROFLOL...so true

Martian KC
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:28 AM
How ridiculous. I rmember these "moments" and Justine wasn't even loking at her box when Carlos made these "hand signals". He was shouting support for winning the point that Justine just won. Jesus Christ on a cross!

Justin SW
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVICq998L7s&feature=related

Even back in these days she had herpes (end of the video ;) )

YARK

matty
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:44 AM
I don't know. I would assume that somewhere in the rules it is described that toilet breaks are to be used for well yeah toilet breaks only, no? ;)

And you're right, maybe she did have to go. But her timing was a bit suspicious... Or maybe she lost that end of the last set so quickly because it was that urgent ;)

When did you want her to go? -- in the middle of the set? Now, that would have been suspcious.

So Disrespectful
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:54 AM
You're right. And Serena only takes toilet breaks when she has to go peepee.

BU6vIegq7h0

BuTtErFrEnA
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:56 AM
I don't know. I would assume that somewhere in the rules it is described that toilet breaks are to be used for well yeah toilet breaks only, no? ;)

And you're right, maybe she did have to go. But her timing was a bit suspicious... Or maybe she lost that end of the last set so quickly because it was that urgent ;)


considering how ugly people here think serena is, i'd say the bathroom break had to do with changing her soaked outfit in there rather than on court....a break IS allowed between sets

gentenaire
Jan 31st, 2010, 09:39 AM
So what...she has to cheat every point before it really counts...I would think once is enough. You should only have to be reminded to get ur toss up and in front once a set...well actually you shouldn't have to be reminded at all during the coarse of the match...since coaching is illegal...lol!

Why don't you read what people are writing for once?

You all keep saying she looks up to her box after every point. I've looked at her matches again and again and I don't see it. It's one of those things that one poster started saying and now everyone's copying that.

Yes, there are times that Carlos is telling her what to do. He shouldn't be doing that, but A) he's not the only one B) it's hard to keep yourself from doing that. I'm shouting instructions at the TV when watching matches, knowing full well there's no way the player can hear it. It's just what you do.

Most tennis players are highly superstitious. Kim will always eat the same meal, others don't dare step on the lines, etc. I think Carlos is there mainly because that's part of Justine's routine and changing it might put her off, just like changing the meal, changing the warm-up might put her off.

I repeat what the Crow said, we know our fav isn't perfect. Do you?

But no, you're absolutely right, it's ILLEGAL and she should go to prison for it. Sheesh, throw some perspective on it, will you?

mykarma
Feb 2nd, 2010, 02:47 AM
Oh but I agree with you on this one. They really should, but apparently they don't want to :confused:

I just hate threads like this where people just have to state the obvious, just because they don't like a particular player. I know my fav isn't perfect. Do you?
Yeah, I agree your fav isn't perfect either. :p

mykarma
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:10 AM
And Venus was caught on camera saying something to Serena and then covering her mouth when she noticed that camera was on her! :eek:
Maybe we can read something in that too? :eek: Or it only counts when ESPN is replaying something over and over?
Since when did Venus become Serena's coach? Plus, Serena said what Venus shouted to her. In case you missed it go read her interview.

GracefulVenus
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM
I am a tennis official and I have complained about this since day 1. I hate that the players get away with this. When I am playing, I look to no one but myself for support, the way it is supposed to be.

Junex
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:26 AM
This thread is eerily riminisccent of the threads we have cirac 2004-2006, when Shrapova was breaking through and she was almost always being called fro her shrieking.

I mean, it has been branded cheating, gamesmanship etc.. etc.....
Remember that during those times Maria was the HOT Item and was majorly considered a threat to the Williams domination on and off the court and especially at Wimbledon. Them Wiliams Fans even go to the extent of differentiating the grunting pf Venus as natural and maria as something only developed to disrupt concentration of her opponent. I mean common, even when these two have been playing the noisiest Wimbledon SF, all the talk of grunting was blamed on Sharapova...

Fast forward, Maria was not as Hot and was written off as a threat to the Williamses, where are those grunting threads?


You do the math.....

Serena y Monica
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:34 AM
Why don't you read what people are writing for once?

You all keep saying she looks up to her box after every point. I've looked at her matches again and again and I don't see it. It's one of those things that one poster started saying and now everyone's copying that.

Yes, there are times that Carlos is telling her what to do. He shouldn't be doing that, but A) he's not the only one B) it's hard to keep yourself from doing that. I'm shouting instructions at the TV when watching matches, knowing full well there's no way the player can hear it. It's just what you do.

Most tennis players are highly superstitious. Kim will always eat the same meal, others don't dare step on the lines, etc. I think Carlos is there mainly because that's part of Justine's routine and changing it might put her off, just like changing the meal, changing the warm-up might put her off.

I repeat what the Crow said, we know our fav isn't perfect. Do you?

But no, you're absolutely right, it's ILLEGAL and she should go to prison for it. Sheesh, throw some perspective on it, will you?

No u r saying that...those of us who are sane are simply saying if she looks once and he gives her hand signals...it's cheating...We(I) am also saying doesn't matter who else is doing it...she's doing it too and has been caught and it's CHEATING......

tennisbum79
Feb 2nd, 2010, 03:45 AM
This thread is eerily riminisccent of the threads we have cirac 2004-2006, when Shrapova was breaking through and she was almost always being called fro her shrieking.

I mean, it has been branded cheating, gamesmanship etc.. etc.....
Remember that during those times Maria was the HOT Item and was majorly considered a threat to the Williams domination on and off the court and especially at Wimbledon. Them Wiliams Fans even go to the extent of differentiating the grunting pf Venus as natural and maria as something only developed to disrupt concentration of her opponent. I mean common, even when these two have been playing the noisiest Wimbledon SF, all the talk of grunting was blamed on Sharapova...

Fast forward, Maria was not as Hot and was written off as a threat to the Williamses, where are those grunting threads?


You do the math.....
Look like you are looking for allies with Sharapova fans because things are not be going your way on the topic of cheating.

I am sure you look through those threads you are talking about, you will find some Justine fans making comments about Maria's grunting.

In all seriousness , the grunting issue is trivial and faddish compared to "illegal coaching" and The Hand Incident.

Just google illegal coaching , and you'll find going as far back as 2007 with Justine and Carlost at the center of the articles.

tennisphilia
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:31 AM
Looks to her box only for encouragement. Carlos got caught on camera mimicking a ball toss pointing his finger up and mouthing get the ball up...then something else to Justine in the first set right after she broke Serena before the commercial break...can you say...cheaters!

IT JUST MEANS THAT EVEN IF JUSTINE CHEATS, she still loses.

égalité
Feb 2nd, 2010, 04:44 AM
ok. how many players get coached illegally? how many of those players make slam finals?

seriously, though, every player benefited from this at some point. "GET OUT OF MELBOURNE," anyone?

Junex
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:39 AM
Look like you are looking for allies with Sharapova fans because things are not be going your way on the topic of cheating.

I am sure you look through those threads you are talking about, you will find some Justine fans making comments about Maria's grunting.

In all seriousness , the grunting issue is trivial and faddish compared to "illegal coaching" and The Hand Incident.

Just google illegal coaching , and you'll find going as far back as 2007 with Justine and Carlost at the center of the articles.

No, I am not looking for allies..
I am saying this is all too typical for WTA World.
WHy do we need to rehash this thread about Justine looking to her box..cheating etc?
Why do we need to discuss this over and over again?
Is it because Justine just came back and she almost ran away with the AO Slam?

Get over it.
If you really want to eradicate illegal coaching as you said it is, write to the establishment. Pass petition papers, File a class suit... or whatever!

The longer we discuss this over here in GM the more we are creating animosity among posters here and it will not solved the problem on illegal cheating.
We don't have to pretend we are doing the tour a favor by castigating Carlos & Justine over and over in these board about illegal coaching as if they are the only once who are doing it? Let us not be bias, get over your hypocrisy. If you really wanna do something about it make a move that would produce result in eradicating illegal coaching. Whining in GM doesn't obviously...It is tiresome.

Let me ask, what is the OPs intention for posting this thread again?
aks yourself and move on!

Junex
Feb 2nd, 2010, 05:44 AM
Look like you are looking for allies with Sharapova fans because things are not be going your way on the topic of cheating.

I am sure you look through those threads you are talking about, you will find some Justine fans making comments about Maria's grunting.

In all seriousness , the grunting issue is trivial and faddish compared to "illegal coaching" and The Hand Incident.

Just google illegal coaching , and you'll find going as far back as 2007 with Justine and Carlost at the center of the articles.

BTW, i never remember you say grunting to be faddish before.. :confused:.. yeah right ur a Venus Fan.

DimaDinosaur
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:06 AM
Justine doesn't give a duck whatchu' guys think of her actions. She's allowed to look at her real father, Carlos anytime she wants.

Stamp Paid
Feb 2nd, 2010, 06:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVICq998L7s&feature=related
OK not to be rude
but why does she always have so many cold sores and fever blisters? :unsure:

Cookie Power
Feb 2nd, 2010, 08:08 AM
Most people know Justine is a liar and a cheater. So glad Serena stopped her from winning the AO. She doesn't deserve to win a slam.

Miranda
Feb 2nd, 2010, 09:16 AM
Most people know Justine is a liar and a cheater. So glad Serena stopped her from winning the AO. She doesn't deserve to win a slam.
too much hate, she won all seven slams by cheating right?:lol: