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View Full Version : Reason why the crowd was behind Justine...? -edit- Serena's tirade?


2009
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:17 PM
From watching the match it was obvious that the crowd was behind Henin. I asked my casual tennis fan friends why and they said everyone supports a comeback player / the underdog. Agree or disagree? And if this is true, does anyone remember whether the crowd was for Serena during AO 07? Just curious.

-EDIT-
Don't know if this is the sole reason, but the Sydney Morning Herald has been blasting Serena these past few days. Today's title was "Gifted Serena Should Really Be Thanking The Big Man Upstairs: Pollard", and a quote "Williams' presence was not the only absurdity at the Open"... But a couple of sports writers may not accurately represent the public's opinion I guess.

tennnisfannn
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:23 PM
She is the next best thing to Kim!

petesz
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Just a wild guess
People always support the player who look less like a bully :devil::tape:

From watching the match it was obvious that the crowd was behind Henin. I asked my casual tennis fan friends why and they said everyone supports a comeback player / the underdog. Agree or disagree? And if this is true, does anyone remember whether the crowd was for Serena during AO 07? Just curious.

Langers
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:30 PM
The Australian crowd ALWAYS supports the underdog/comeback player UNLESS they are playing Federer. :rolleyes:

Was about 90/10 in favour of Justine tonight.

doktor
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:31 PM
yeah i noticed that too, even up the pub, people generally seemed to be going for henin... i thought it was because even outside of tennis serena is such a polarizing figure, everyone has an opinion of her (love her or hate her) and justine really isn't quite such a part of peoples consciousness... they don't know enough about her to like or dislike her so they just sort of go with whoever is playing rena (that was what i gathered anyway)

Ferg
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:32 PM
Racism.

Martian KC
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:32 PM
They only truly got behind Justine after the horrible linesperson cost Justine the break in the 1st set. As it was pointed out, they showed replays of the shot in the stadium during the break.
But when it was even in the 3rd set, the crowd support was neutral.

vejh
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:33 PM
The AO crowd has been supporting her since D1. Could be because she is loved?? Her practice sessions are crowded. She is a popular tennis figure despite what the American media tries to say. And she is well respected; very well respected.

There is a lot of love for her all over.

steffiandbibi
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:34 PM
because people respect and miss a former N.1, i guess

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:34 PM
Venus and Serena have been used to not getting the crowd support.
Even in their home country.

You friend may be sincere, but this underdog reason is just nonsense.

Rodick, Federer always het the crodw support regardless of the opponent ranking or ability.

McEnroe, Jimmy Connors, Agassi, not the best role model for on and off court behaviour have always gotten support, regardless of who their opponents are.

Vaidisova Ruled
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:34 PM
Because everyone likes a comeback.
French crowd was behind Maria this year, and the year before the were booing her, so...

jefrilibra
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:35 PM
It was cos of the crucial point in the 1st set right which Justine lost until the end of the 2nd. After that I thought they were fairly neutral.

Anyway I actually prefer when the crowd is against Serena. It keeps her on the ball, literally and figuratively.

mdterp01
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Because she was the underdog and it was a great comeback story. I think there were plenty of cheers after championship point. Serena has tons of fans in Australia but I think they appreciated 2 champions on the court instead of a champion and a wannabe.

Olórin
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Yeah as someone said by the third set 2-2 the crowd support was pretty neutral imo.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Just a wild guess
People always support the player who look less like a bully :devil::tape:"
"Look" like a bully?

Well Serena can't help what she looks like.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:38 PM
Racism.

Now I know why you are such a sad, bitter person. :o

Rising Sun
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:38 PM
The underdog thing is definitely BS. :help:

It doesn't matter who players like Federer and Clijsters face because the Aussie crowd will always always on their side.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:40 PM
The underdog thing is definitely BS. :help:

It doesn't matter who players like Federer and Clijsters face because the Aussie crowd will always always on their side.
Totally BS, I agree.

Add Rodick, and before that McEnroe, Jimmy Connors.

Ferg
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:43 PM
Now I know why you are such a sad, bitter person. :o

:spit:

k? I think you were the only one that thought I was serious. :lol:

tennnisfannn
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:47 PM
it was clear before they played the first ball they were heavily in favour of justine. When they were being introduced the applause justine got was incredible- perhaps it is the comeback story.

Monica_Rules
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:51 PM
Maybe more of the crowd just like Justine more?

GracefulVenus
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:52 PM
I heard more calls for Serena than Justine :lol: Just that one annoying man kept yelling Justine's name.

flyingmachine
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:52 PM
People just want a fairytale comeback. That's all.

Uranus
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:52 PM
Comeback player/underdog. She was down in the 3rd so fans were cheering for her so the spectacle could keep up longer.

tennisbum79
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:55 PM
Maybe more of the crowd just like Justine more?
That maybe true, and not just with Justine.

And Venus and Serena are used to it and have said so numerous times.
It used to disturb Venus earlier in her career when playing in the US, but she and Serena have come to expect and have learned to to live with it.

Le Chat
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:55 PM
There were a lot of belgian' fans in the public . But anyway , the Williams above all serena are used to have the public against them . That said , the Australian public is not bad at all with serena , i would say they like her .. .

dsanders06
Jan 30th, 2010, 01:58 PM
It doesn't matter who players like Federer and Clijsters face because the Aussie crowd will always always on their side.

Then clearly, you've watched very little of the men's tournament. In the semis, the crowd went nuts everytime Tsonga hit a winner (which was rarely), while being respectful but rather muted towards Federer's winners.

The reason today was a mixture of them pulling for the underdog, a genuine affection for Henin's game and, despite what some of Serena's fans might like to think, the fact that her public image took a huge hit last year.

Mina Vagante
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:02 PM
Then clearly, you've watched very little of the men's tournament. In the semis, the crowd went nuts everytime Tsonga hit a winner (which was rarely), while being respectful but rather muted towards Federer's winners.

The reason today was a mixture of them pulling for the underdog, a genuine affection for Henin's game and, despite what some of Serena's fans might like to think, the fact that her public image took a huge hit last year.

No. They've been cheering for her in the other matches. It is because they like an under-dog and the crowd appreciate Henin's game.

The Witch-king
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:05 PM
It was those rowdy belgians in the back making it look like she had all the support

Volcana
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:08 PM
Considering that the crowds all over the world are generally on the side of Serena's opponent, (as long as it isn't Venus) maybe they just favored Henin because she was Serena's opponent today. It has never mattered if the opponent was bigger, (Sharapova, Safina) or smaller (Henin). It has never mattered if Serena is ranked higher or lower, whether she's favored or not. So I tend to think it had nothing to do with Henin at all.

NOTE: Especially recently, crowds are not hostile to Serena, which they often used to be. They just favor Serena's opponents. Serena is treated with considerable respect, just not affection.

The Witch-king
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:10 PM
There were a lot of belgian' fans in the public . But anyway , the Williams above all serena are used to have the public against them . That said , the Australian public is not bad at all with serena , i would say they like her .. .

the australian commentators were saying how Serena is used to getting a lot of support in australia (including this year). I figure it's that underdog thing. don't forget Serena Williams pwns the Australian Open and is number one. I remember an australian porter saying how australian ALWAYS support the underdog. Just the way it is. I remember serena had similar support in HER comeback against Sharapova

DefyingGravity
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:10 PM
1. Justine's coming back from retirement, so she becomes a sentimental favorite.
2. Serena has had a history of WIPING OUT people in Grand Slam finals for the most part.
3. The crowd didn't want to go home early, it's a night out and they wanted to enjoy good tennis.
4. Sometimes, people get tired of the same person winning the title (exception Federer, Henin at Roland Garros).
5. Justine's the underdog.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:30 PM
It was and Aussie on this board that came on yesterday and said the crowd was going to be rooting for Justine...and he was right. He said naturally that they would root for the underdog and being that Serena has won that plenty of times, they would really be rooting for her and it showed. I was just SO SUPRISED how the stadium almost errupted on damn near EVERY POINT Justine made though...just shows how STRONG Serena is...If she can play through a match like she did in Indian Wells (and im not assuming that this particular match had to do with being racist.) she can play through ANYTHING. I think the only match that really got into her head to make her loose was the French in 03.

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:44 PM
the australian commentators were saying how Serena is used to getting a lot of support in australia (including this year). I figure it's that underdog thing. don't forget Serena Williams pwns the Australian Open and is number one. I remember an australian porter saying how australian ALWAYS support the underdog. Just the way it is. I remember serena had similar support in HER comeback against Sharapova

yes she did. she even acknowledged it in her speech.

but yeah the aussie crowd is usually pro-Serena so this match kind of suprised me. i guess I'll buy the underdog story because it is australia. if this were America, then i wouldn't.

djul14
Jan 30th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Because they wanted a 3rd set and a "fight".

barmaid
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:14 PM
Considering that the crowds all over the world are generally on the side of Serena's opponent, (as long as it isn't Venus) maybe they just favored Henin because she was Serena's opponent today. It has never mattered if the opponent was bigger, (Sharapova, Safina) or smaller (Henin). It has never mattered if Serena is ranked higher or lower, whether she's favored or not. So I tend to think it had nothing to do with Henin at all.

NOTE: Especially recently, crowds are not hostile to Serena, which they often used to be. They just favor Serena's opponents. Serena is treated with considerable respect, just not affection.

I agree your post is very fair, tennis fans are knowledgable about Serena's conquests and accomplishments so the "respect" is there however we all saw what happened at the U.S. Open and although it was "a heat of the moment tirade" it did mar her reputation, she's learned from it has been more than gracious in her interviews of late where before she was almost arrogant but she's still got a long way to go for the fans to "embrace" her she still comes across as the "bully"...and I'm sure she's fine with that!:rolleyes:

Barmaid:wavey:

moby
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:21 PM
So I tend to think it had nothing to do with Henin at all.

I feel the complete opposite. It has nothing to do with Serena.

They've been staunchly and wildly behind Justine the whole tournament, whether she was playing Dementieva, Kleybanova, Wickmayer, Petrova, Zheng, or Williams.
Whether she was down, playing a close match, or beating her opponent like a drum. Whether she was the favourite or not.

It's in large part the comeback story, but is it so difficult to believe that Justine can be extremely popular in some places? The Aussies love their net play and variety.

Illusionist
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:41 PM
Blah, I don't care but it really got on my nerves how much they favorized (God, I hope that word exists) Henin.

BlameSerena
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:43 PM
yeah i noticed that too, even up the pub, people generally seemed to be going for henin... i thought it was because even outside of tennis serena is such a polarizing figure, everyone has an opinion of her (love her or hate her) and justine really isn't quite such a part of peoples consciousness... they don't know enough about her to like or dislike her so they just sort of go with whoever is playing rena (that was what i gathered anyway)

This. Serena is a polarizing figure like many other GOATs. You generally love her or hate her.
Although, in general, Australia has been good to Serena and very respectful.

Kunal
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:39 PM
usually is the case

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:45 PM
This. Serena is a polarizing figure like many other GOATs. You generally love her or hate her.
Although, in general, Australia has been good to Serena and very respectful.

Duhh, she's been winning like once every 2 years.... why not? :p

Wojtek
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:45 PM
She has normal reaction. Serena is like wild bull - she just needs to run around in circles.

youizahoe
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:47 PM
The crowd wasn't against Serena nor was it that behind Justine. The only people you heard were the Belgians, I think I heard like 50 Komaan's and Allez in just 3 games :tape:

Wojtek
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:49 PM
The crowd wasn't against Serena nor was it that behind Justine. The only people you heard were the Belgians, I think I heard like 50 Komaan's and Allez in just 3 games :tape:
something is wrong with your ears

Volcana
Jan 30th, 2010, 04:50 PM
however we all saw what happened at the U.S. Open and although it was "a heat of the moment tirade" it did mar her reputationI disagree. I know of no one, personally, who's opinion of Serena was altered by what happened at the US Open. Obviously, I'm no judge of what people I only know over the internet thought of Serena before that. But even her fans would have to concede that orehat incident, Serena could be intimidating. Afterwards she seemed ... intimidating.

Nobody though Serena was a saint in the first place. Nothing has changed.

youizahoe
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:16 PM
something is wrong with your ears

Nope. But a lot of things are wrong with you.

luv_vandsfan
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Why? Gee let me tell you . Tennis has been for almost 70 plus years a white priviledge sport and now you have to
very good African American women who are dominating it Well lets see they dont like it. Margret Court could have just keeled over and died alont with fake azz Billie Jean.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:30 PM
From watching the match it was obvious that the crowd was behind Henin. I asked my casual tennis fan friends why and they said everyone supports a comeback player / the underdog. Agree or disagree? And if this is true, does anyone remember whether the crowd was for Serena during AO 07? Just curious.
There's nothing unusual about it. :shrug: The Williams sisters rarely have the crowd behind them.

franklinbouvier
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:31 PM
Why? Gee let me tell you . Tennis has been for almost 70 plus years a white priviledge sport and now you have to
very good African American women who are dominating it Well lets see they dont like it. Margret Court could have just keeled over and died alont with fake azz Billie Jean.

Sweetheart, if you're going to join in with the grown-ups please sort out your spelling.

Vlover
Jan 30th, 2010, 05:37 PM
There's nothing unusual about it. :shrug: The Williams sisters rarely have the crowd behind them.
Exactly! They don't even get in the US in their own country. Fortunately for us Venus and Serena don't care and neither do I.

RVD
Jan 30th, 2010, 06:10 PM
The reasons are far more obvious than people want to admit, but I'm not gonna go there. I'm just going to have a small say and then leave this thread.

I've been following Serena (and Venus) even before she went pro, and was being hailed by her dad as the one who win the most slam titles and have the better career (because she hates losing so much. He also told them that people will hate you )for obvious reasons) but not to worry about them, and just go out there and win. Well, everything he warned his daughter about transpired. And everything he taught them prepared them for the ignorance and hate that they received throughout their career. And still, they win.
Now obviously, the underdog thing in Australia isn't the entire story. Just like Morrissey posted, there is a history of racial hatred there. HOWEVER, some Aussies do in fact appreciate and and respect Serena. They just aren't as vocal as the ones who hate or dislike her.

Hatred is loud and obnoxious.

Love and respect is often silent and reserved.

America is far worse on Serena (and Venus). Any other ethnicity would be treated with immense respect and embraced. But not these two.
Still, Serena and Venus, and their supporters are all used to this, and have become stronger for it. This is why we fans here so intensely support our wonderful living legends. These girls have gone through a trail of fire and have shown incredible resolve and tenacity, and have beaten incredible odds. So it no longer matters whether they are liked or not to most of us.
Their inspiration runs deep in us, and we love them to death.

treufreund
Jan 30th, 2010, 09:59 PM
LOL at people in here trying to make this all about Serena! The fans have really embraced and loved Justine throughout the tournament and an in Brisbane. She is very popular but people in the US have no idea who she is until she is in the finals and the ESPN does everything they can to turn people against her right off the bat. Dick Enberg seemed flummoxed by how much support Justine was getting. Justine is well-liked. :p

kris719
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:08 PM
because she's coming back just like kim was. people rooted for kim, they'll root for justine. duh.

Donny
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:11 PM
Australians racist? Serena gets cheered there all of the time. Racists are everywhere, there are even racist black people.

FFS get a clue :o

Really? Never knew that.

youizahoe
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:12 PM
Really? Never knew that.

I hope that was sarcasm :lol:

vml
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Well, there's smthing i don't get if the crowd was TOTALLY supporting Justine as some of you said why was the crowd neutral in the third set ?

All the more, I think all the Belgians out there were cheeerig VERY loud and most of the australians were neutral and maybe cheering serena more at the end of the match.

To conclude the fact that Justine was the underdog added to the fact that she was cheered more

Guys don't be fooled if it was in Paris, serena wouldn't even have gotten half of the support she got today. I noticed smthing at the French '09 : I had VIP passes and i got the chance to see serena play (no need to say how happy I was) and i can tell you guys that the crowd was pro-serena for the most part and you know why ? Because the Belgians weren't there due to the fact that both Kim and Justine were retired at the time.

The French are not the ones who are obnoxious towards Venus and Serena but the Belgians and I swear that at this year's French Open the crowd will be obnoxious towards the WS !

Donny
Jan 30th, 2010, 10:23 PM
I hope that was sarcasm :lol:

Yes, it was. But your post was kind of besides the point. Of course there are racist black people. But Justine, or Kim, or Maria, etc. is never going to be playing in a stadium full of black people. They are never going to have their matches covered on a channel with predominately black commentators, and they are never going to be reported on by a virtually all black media. They are never going to be punished by an all black tennis officiating body. In short, they are never going to experience racism from blacks on a significant scale, because it simply isn't possible.

Perspective is needed in situations like these.

is1531
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:04 PM
Look at it his way, if Serena was a boxer she never would have fought Justine and her 5ft 5 120 lbs. Serena is listed at 5ft9 and 152, but you can't actually believe that. She is probably 5ft 10" 170lbs with a man's shoulders, man's legs and muscular arms and a gigantic forehead, so most people would root for an underdog in this case. She serves like a man. Although her behavior does not resemble a man at all. She is the best and maybe the best ever, but I can't root for a woman that looks like a man. It has nothing to do with black and white. If Serena is playing Venus she knows when it's time to slack off and help her older sister

Go Yanina, Sharapova. Lisicki

Amanda
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:13 PM
congratulations, Serena!

LightWarrior
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:26 PM
The remarks about the Australian people being racist are stupid. As far as I know Serena has always gotten support in Australia, probably more than anywhere else. They're passionate about sports. Henin was making her comeback and was the underdog, so they supported Henin more, but were not against Serena. There was also the incident at 3/1 when the chair umpire handled the situation very badly, which probably turned the tide in favour of Henin.

miss_molik
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:26 PM
The crowd booed after that bad line call when Serena served a massive ace, and then they booed when Serena won the game. But there were definantly a lot of cheers when she won. If Serena wasn't playing Justine I probably would have gone for her, because I came to like her a lot when Justine retired, but now that Justine is back, obviously I want her to win when they play each other :P

It definantly has something to do with the comeback and her being the underdog.

miss_molik
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:32 PM
I think they may have been booing more at the linesperson and the situation, more than at Serena

LightWarrior
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:32 PM
I don't ever remember Serena ever being booed at Wimbledon and the French Open


You've got to be kidding...Does the '03 FO Henin/Serena quarter final match ring a bell to you (you know, "The Hand") ?
:help:

LightWarrior
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:35 PM
I think they may have been booing more at the linesperson and the situation, more than at Serena

Exactly. The umpire and linespeople made a lot of blatant mistakes during the first set. That annoyed the crowd. It annoyed me as well.

mykarma
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:38 PM
Look at it his way, if Serena was a boxer she never would have fought Justine and her 5ft 5 120 lbs. Serena is listed at 5ft9 and 152, but you can't actually believe that. She is probably 5ft 10" 170lbs with a man's shoulders, man's legs and muscular arms and a gigantic forehead, so most people would root for an underdog in this case. She serves like a man. Although her behavior does not resemble a man at all. She is the best and maybe the best ever, but I can't root for a woman that looks like a man. It has nothing to do with black and white. If Serena is playing Venus she knows when it's time to slack off and help her older sister

Go Yanina, Sharapova. Lisicki
Justine looks more like a man than Serena does. Justine has no boobs, chest looks like a man, no ass, walks like a dude, plain Jane with beady eyes and you say Serena looks like a man. Surely you jest.

bandabou
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Serena got more support here than at the U.S. open, so go figure. Love the Oz crowd..

Morrissey
Jan 30th, 2010, 11:54 PM
My comments about Australia are based on facts. Maybe if you read about Australia's history you would know that the Aborigines are treated harshly by the white Australian majority. Have you not read about the racist residential school system in Australia? Or the fact that Aborigines are discriminated in so many ways in Australia. Maybe you would realize that in Australia South Asians and African immigrants are being murdered by white male gangs. In fact, this year Nitin Garg a young South Asian man was stabbed to death by white Australians. There is now a political fight between India and Australia and the Indian government is furious. The Indian government says Australia is racist against minorities and I agree. Maybe if you bothered to learn Australia's history you would know about the white Australia policy which barred non white people and South Europeans from immigrating to Australia.

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:09 AM
Yes, it was. But your post was kind of besides the point. Of course there are racist black people. But Justine, or Kim, or Maria, etc. is never going to be playing in a stadium full of black people. They are never going to have their matches covered on a channel with predominately black commentators, and they are never going to be reported on by a virtually all black media. They are never going to be punished by an all black tennis officiating body. In short, they are never going to experience racism from blacks on a significant scale, because it simply isn't possible.

Perspective is needed in situations like these.
Crystal Clear. I think I have to spread some rep before I can hit you up, but... :bowdown:

DOUBLEFIST
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:10 AM
The reasons are far more obvious than people want to admit, but I'm not gonna go there. I'm just going to have a small say and then leave this thread.

I've been following Serena (and Venus) even before she went pro, and was being hailed by her dad as the one who win the most slam titles and have the better career (because she hates losing so much. He also told them that people will hate you )for obvious reasons) but not to worry about them, and just go out there and win. Well, everything he warned his daughter about transpired. And everything he taught them prepared them for the ignorance and hate that they received throughout their career. And still, they win.
Now obviously, the underdog thing in Australia isn't the entire story. Just like Morrissey posted, there is a history of racial hatred there. HOWEVER, some Aussies do in fact appreciate and and respect Serena. They just aren't as vocal as the ones who hate or dislike her.

Hatred is loud and obnoxious.

Love and respect is often silent and reserved.

America is far worse on Serena (and Venus). Any other ethnicity would be treated with immense respect and embraced. But not these two.
Still, Serena and Venus, and their supporters are all used to this, and have become stronger for it. This is why we fans here so intensely support our wonderful living legends. These girls have gone through a trail of fire and have shown incredible resolve and tenacity, and have beaten incredible odds. So it no longer matters whether they are liked or not to most of us.
Their inspiration runs deep in us, and we love them to death.

Great post.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's as simple as "racism." In fact, having lived in Sydney for three months, I can definitively say, I experienced NO racism whatsoever. I did, however, experience some very..."naive"... curiosities about African Americans. Some silly and some..., "advantageous" :hehehe: , and I'll leave at that.

Dominic
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:14 AM
Ppl saying it's racism have to be kidding and it's funny.

Melly Flew Us
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:25 AM
Look at it his way, if Serena was a boxer she never would have fought Justine and her 5ft 5 120 lbs. Serena is listed at 5ft9 and 152, but you can't actually believe that. She is probably 5ft 10" 170lbs with a man's shoulders, man's legs and muscular arms and a gigantic forehead, so most people would root for an underdog in this case. She serves like a man. Although her behavior does not resemble a man at all. She is the best and maybe the best ever, but I can't root for a woman that looks like a man. It has nothing to do with black and white. If Serena is playing Venus she knows when it's time to slack off and help her older sister

Go Yanina, Sharapova. Lisicki
go back to your cave.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:47 AM
To be a top athlete a woman is going to look somewhat manly. Justine looks very feminine when in street clothes with makeup and hair done up. On the court she does look boyish-athletic and quite ripped and is pretty flat-chested and has a pretty butch saunter to her walk. Serena looks very butch with the bulging muscles and her way of carrying herself. She is kind of luck a really muscular drag queen. But, guess what? WHO CARES!!!??? They are out there to play tennis and need to be strong and ripped. They are built the way they are due to hard work and some genetics. Taking swipes at other woman because of her physique is childish and lame and reflects a lot of sexism and jealousy and a strict adherence to gender roles. Strict adherence to gender roles is not healthy and promotes intolerance and limits each individual from experiencing his or her true realm of possibilities. We saw this go out of control when Federer got emotional and cried last year at the Aussie Open. The number of macho haters who pulled out the homophobic and misogynistic slurs at the man because he cried was disturbing. Disturbing, yet not surprising at all when you consider how intolerant society is to those who dare to show a side which does not follow the narrow script of our world's strict gender role guidelines. A woman being strong or a man showing his vulnerabilities are not bad things. Lay off Serena. Lay off Justine. Lay off Roger.

Thkmra
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:57 AM
:spit:

k? I think you were the only one that thought I was serious. :lol:

Because racism is so light-hearted, and meant to be taken as a joke!! :rolleyes:

Experimentee
Jan 31st, 2010, 12:59 AM
Serena never really gets much support, not even in her home country.

I don't think Serena got the crowd support even when she was the comeback player in 07.

Привет
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:01 AM
I think they may have been booing more at the linesperson and the situation, more than at Serena

This. I didn't notice that Justine received that much more crowd support than Serena other than during the 1st set, and even then I felt like it was more that they were annoyed about the situation. At first I thought they were booing Serena (I'd only just started watching, so I was only just getting into it), but couldn't think of why they would be upset with her and realised that it was just because they were pissed at the iffy call from the linesjudge. Mind you, it's not something I take much notice of, so unless it's really noticeable (like the booing during the 1st set), I'm more than likely not going to notice.

I'm not going to deny that racism exists in Australia's history (is there a nation that doesn't have a history of racism to some extent..?), but at the same time, to say that anyone in the stadium last night who was supporting Justine was doing so because their country has a racist past is ludicrous. :shrug:

Some Australians prefer Serena, some prefer Justine. Sadly, some of those who prefer Justine do so because Serena is black. Does that mean that all who were cheering for Justine are racist? Of course not.

Those who are telling others to open their eyes to Australia's racist past should take some of their own advice, because it seems to me that they're hell bent on pointing out only the negative aspects of the country's history. Maybe they should open their own eyes up to some of the positives instead of sticking labels onto an entire nation just because racists exist/existed.

Experimentee
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:03 AM
To be a top athlete a woman is going to look somewhat manly. Justine looks very feminine when in street clothes with makeup and hair done up. On the court she does look boyish-athletic and quite ripped and is pretty flat-chested and has a pretty butch saunter to her walk. Serena looks very butch with the bulging muscles and her way of carrying herself. She is kind of luck a really muscular drag queen. But, guess what? WHO CARES!!!??? They are out there to play tennis and need to be strong and ripped. They are built the way they are due to hard work and some genetics. Taking swipes at other woman because of her physique is childish and lame and reflects a lot of sexism and jealousy and a strict adherence to gender roles. Strict adherence to gender roles is not healthy and promotes intolerance and limits each individual from experiencing his or her true realm of possibilities. We saw this go out of control when Federer got emotional and cried last year at the Aussie Open. The number of macho haters who pulled out the homophobic and misogynistic slurs at the man because he cried was disturbing. Disturbing, yet not surprising at all when you consider how intolerant society is to those who dare to show a side which does not follow the narrow script of our world's strict gender role guidelines. A woman being strong or a man showing his vulnerabilities are not bad things. Lay off Serena. Lay off Justine. Lay off Roger.

Great post, I wish more of the general public would think like this.

#1SteffiGraf#1
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:05 AM
Just a wild guess
People always support the player who look less like a bully :devil::tape:

Bingo. And acts less like one too. And Serena's manly serve doesnt help her much either.

Experimentee
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:06 AM
I think they may have been booing more at the linesperson and the situation, more than at Serena

I don't think so. If so, they would have booed after the call was made. They only booed after Serena served an ace.

Thkmra
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:07 AM
Australia is a very racist country all you need to do is see how racist Australia is AGAINST the Aborigines. The Aborigines encounter so much white supremacy in relation to education, housing, food, shelter, ect.

I argue Australia is more racist than the USA. Right now in Australia South Asian students are being attacked and murdered by white supremacists in Australia. Read the newspapers people! Australia is very racist against non white people. South Asian and African people are being attacked due to hate crimes. In the year 2008 according to the city of Melbourne police statistics over 1000 attacks have taken place AGAINST South Asians.

In fact, if you look at Australia's history they were even racist against South Europeans. It wasn't until the 1960s that South Europeans were allowed to immigrate to Australia. Have people never heard of the "White Australian Immigration Policy"? Geesh some people need to get a clue and read a history course book or the internet.

The reason the white Australian crowd supported Henin is not because she was on a comeback that is BS. The reason the crowd supported Henin is because she is the great WHITE HOPE. The white tennis media thought Henin would win and be called the best female player of her generation. However, Serena proved with this victory SHE is the best female tennis player of her generation. Serena has 12 slams and Henin only has seven.

:lol::lol::worship::worship:

serenafann
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:10 AM
Bingo. And acts less like one too. And Serena's manly serve doesnt help her much either.

:mad: Pathetic.

Привет
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:12 AM
I don't think so. If so, they would have booed after the call was made. They only booed after Serena served an ace.

I do see your point. Perhaps they were annoyed that the fact that the linesperson fucked up truly changed the outcome of that game then? I just can't see why they would have only booed because Serena served an ace. Especially not when it happened immediately after that linecall situation. Serena hit a lot of winners and aces etc. and none of those were booed, so I can't see how it wouldn't have something to do with that linecall.

Helen Lawson
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:12 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again-she's suucessful, rich, Black, and not modest. A lot of people don't like that combination, sad but true. The haters will miss Serena when she's gone and slam finals between two no talent zeros are decided by who chokes the least, not who goes for it the most. Serena and Venus and Justine will be gone in 5 years.

gc-spurs
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:12 AM
Because Australian crowds cream themselves over 1) Aussie players 2) Ana and Kim 3) Roger 4) Underdogs

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:19 AM
To be a top athlete a woman is going to look somewhat manly. Justine looks very feminine when in street clothes with makeup and hair done up. On the court she does look boyish-athletic and quite ripped and is pretty flat-chested and has a pretty butch saunter to her walk. Serena looks very butch with the bulging muscles and her way of carrying herself. She is kind of luck a really muscular drag queen. But, guess what? WHO CARES!!!??? They are out there to play tennis and need to be strong and ripped. They are built the way they are due to hard work and some genetics. Taking swipes at other woman because of her physique is childish and lame and reflects a lot of sexism and jealousy and a strict adherence to gender roles. Strict adherence to gender roles is not healthy and promotes intolerance and limits each individual from experiencing his or her true realm of possibilities. We saw this go out of control when Federer got emotional and cried last year at the Aussie Open. The number of macho haters who pulled out the homophobic and misogynistic slurs at the man because he cried was disturbing. Disturbing, yet not surprising at all when you consider how intolerant society is to those who dare to show a side which does not follow the narrow script of our world's strict gender role guidelines. A woman being strong or a man showing his vulnerabilities are not bad things. Lay off Serena. Lay off Justine. Lay off Roger.Okay, so which is it?

You just negated your entire point in the very same post.
And why the nastiness? I wonder if you look anything close to a human being? :confused:

I was actually warming to Justine and some of her fans, but now....


*sigh*

moby
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:20 AM
Okay, so which is it?

You just negated your entire point in the very same post.
And why the nastiness? I wonder if you look anything close to a human being? :confused:

I was actually warming to Justine and some of her fans, but now....


*sigh*I thought he was trying to be fair. He also called Justine boyish and butch. :tape::lol:

Granted you might actually agree with that and think there's nothing wrong there... :help:
in which case that would say more about you and your double standards :shrug:

His point is that it's OK for women to look butch boys and muscular drag queens...
So your inflamed response actually proves his point.

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:22 AM
Because Australian crowds cream themselves over 1) Aussie players 2) Ana and Kim 3) Roger 4) Underdogs

i've read this from other australian posters too. i wonder why ana is so popular over there, even more so than sharapova it seems.

Helen Lawson
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:23 AM
The underdog thing is total bullshit, Serena was the underdog in 05 and 07, but the lack of support was no different. Given the shit Henin pulled in the 06 final, I'm surprised she would have fans left there at all, but is the crowd darling against Serena. Not a coincidence!

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:25 AM
I thought he was trying to be fair. He also called Justine boyish and butch. :tape::lol:

Granted you might actually agree with that and think there's nothing wrong there... :help:

His point is that it's OK for women to look butch boys and muscular drag queens...
So your inflamed response actually proves his point.


Yeah I was not taking a swipe really. I was kind of saying that they both look "manly" in some way but that there is nothing wrong with that unless a person is intolerant. And you are 100% right that said poster above proved my point.

Raiden
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:26 AM
To be a top athlete a woman is going to look somewhat manly.Exactly.

99% of female athletes (tennis and other sports) are not really feminine at all. Even Sharapova is not as feminine as her current reputation suggests: she has got broad, man-like shoulders and she is rather flat at the front (and all the way around and below that (there's not much of a waist). It's just that she knows how to dress and move and wiggle and giggle like a doll.

But put Maria next to Anna Kournikova and her manly/drag-queeny (somewhat Ann Coulterish) features suddenly become more obvious:

http://newsfromrussia.com/img/idb/kur-1.jpg

moby
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:26 AM
I don't know if people actually read this, so I feel the need to quote it:

I feel the complete opposite. It has nothing to do with Serena.

They've been staunchly and wildly behind Justine the whole tournament, whether she was playing Dementieva, Kleybanova, Wickmayer, Petrova, Zheng, or Williams.
Whether she was down, playing a close match, or beating her opponent like a drum. Whether she was the favourite or not.

It's in large part the comeback story, but is it so difficult to believe that Justine can be extremely popular in some places? The Aussies love their net play and variety.Unless of course Australians are also against Russians (communist Slavs), Zheng (communist + Asian), and Wickmayer (drug addict).

I watched 6 of Justine's matches and she got an insane amount of support every match.
Maybe people actually like Justine. It's really not that hard to believe!

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:26 AM
We also saw zillions of posts on here calling Mary Carillo a manly butch lesbian and other posts filled with unmasked misogyny and homophobia.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:30 AM
I thought he was trying to be fair. He also called Justine boyish and butch. :tape::lol:

Granted you might actually agree with that and think there's nothing wrong there... :help:

His point is that it's OK for women to look butch boys and muscular drag queens...
So your inflamed response actually proves his point.
no. he was not trying to be fair.

It was a clever way to take a swipe at Serena under the disguise of covering all angles.

Another poster justified Serena's lack of support in the stand by stating that "nobody want to support someone who look like a bully"
He continues in another thread this at her size, how serena was twice as big as all the other "girls", inferring it was not a fair contest.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:30 AM
Okay, so which is it?

You just negated your entire point in the very same post.
And why the nastiness? I wonder if you look anything close to a human being? :confused:

I was actually warming to Justine and some of her fans, but now....


*sigh*

RVD, Sorry If you took that the wrong way. I wasn't being serious. Serena does not really look like a drag queen per se (not that there would be anything wrong with that in my eyes because I am not intolerant!) Renee Richards endured horrible discrimination in fact. Justine does not look boyish really either. My point is precisely that people should stop calling them petty, horrible names and get on with respecting their achievements and development as players and people. So, again, sorry if I offended you with my hyperbole :) :kiss:

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:32 AM
Australia is a very racist country all you need to do is see how racist Australia is AGAINST the Aborigines. The Aborigines encounter so much white supremacy in relation to education, housing, food, shelter, ect.

I argue Australia is more racist than the USA. Right now in Australia South Asian students are being attacked and murdered by white supremacists in Australia. Read the newspapers people! Australia is very racist against non white people. South Asian and African people are being attacked due to hate crimes. In the year 2008 according to the city of Melbourne police statistics over 1000 attacks have taken place AGAINST South Asians.

In fact, if you look at Australia's history they were even racist against South Europeans. It wasn't until the 1960s that South Europeans were allowed to immigrate to Australia. Have people never heard of the "White Australian Immigration Policy"? Geesh some people need to get a clue and read a history course book or the internet.

The reason the white Australian crowd supported Henin is not because she was on a comeback that is BS. The reason the crowd supported Henin is because she is the great WHITE HOPE. The white tennis media thought Henin would win and be called the best female player of her generation. However, Serena proved with this victory SHE is the best female tennis player of her generation. Serena has 12 slams and Henin only has seven.

Everyone knows Australia is a very racist country it is something that needs to be discussed. Australia is far more backwards than the USA that's for sure in relation to race relations. The USA has race problems too but at least in America they are more open to talking about race. In fact, in Australia they try to downplay racism.
Um reading Wikipedia has f**k all to do with knowing Australian history.
What a joke you are coming on here and thinking you have the right to tar all Australians as racist and then have the nerve to say it's the reason for the 'booing' of Serena.
Ironically, you're the ignorant one here.

Yes, unfortunately parts of Australia are racist, sadly there's going to be racism everywhere and how country's deal with it is going to be different.
However, saying Serena being booed is the result of Australian racism is one of the stupidest things I've read on this forum in a long time.
And the stupidy of your post is evident when Australian Serena fans are insulted by such accusations, cause really...you're treating the Aussie Serena fans like sh*t coming out with such abhnorant garbage.

Now, as said, many many times, Australians love an underdog and contrary to what people believe Federer doesn't always have the crowd's support and I remember a specific match (Janko Tipservic(sp?)) where the crowd was DEFEANING against Federer.
Contrary to what those want to believe in 07 when Serena came back unseeded the crowd was behind her.

I think that some Serena fans scope out the smallest of negativity to jump on it like it's their life's mission to be the protectors of Serena Williams, to think that she's going to get a hard time everywhere and anywhere.
And when she doesn't, they'll still look and fabricate something.
It gets a bit too much when idiots start thinking they can label a whole nation racist because an the tradition of backing the underdog isn't accepted and then misinterpreting (deliberately) booing a crap call as booing one of the players.
I love watching the intensity and skill of Serena, and I love how she's such a different person off court, but certain fans of hers are the most pathetic representation of hostility and negativity I've seen in my life.

This. I didn't notice that Justine received that much more crowd support than Serena other than during the 1st set, and even then I felt like it was more that they were annoyed about the situation. At first I thought they were booing Serena (I'd only just started watching, so I was only just getting into it), but couldn't think of why they would be upset with her and realised that it was just because they were pissed at the iffy call from the linesjudge. Mind you, it's not something I take much notice of, so unless it's really noticeable (like the booing during the 1st set), I'm more than likely not going to notice.

I'm not going to deny that racism exists in Australia's history (is there a nation that doesn't have a history of racism to some extent..?), but at the same time, to say that anyone in the stadium last night who was supporting Justine was doing so because their country has a racist past is ludicrous. :shrug:

Some Australians prefer Serena, some prefer Justine. Sadly, some of those who prefer Justine do so because Serena is black. Does that mean that all who were cheering for Justine are racist? Of course not.

Those who are telling others to open their eyes to Australia's racist past should take some of their own advice, because it seems to me that they're hell bent on pointing out only the negative aspects of the country's history. Maybe they should open their own eyes up to some of the positives instead of sticking labels onto an entire nation just because racists exist/existed.

Because Australian crowds cream themselves over 1) Aussie players 2) Ana and Kim 3) Roger 4) Underdogs
Agree with both, sadly it'll fall on deaf ears.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:32 AM
I thought he was trying to be fair. He also called Justine boyish and butch. :tape::lol:

Granted you might actually agree with that and think there's nothing wrong there... :help:

His point is that it's OK for women to look butch boys and muscular drag queens...
So your inflamed response actually proves his point.I'm sorry Moby, but you and I know that you don't disparage both parties in order to make a few people (or yourself) appear reasonably logical.

The analogy that he provided is akin me burning your house and your enemy's and saying, now you're both even.

You're smarter than that.
I read your posts.

I personally do NOT see Serena as looking butch or like a like a man. But maybe you do. And if that's the case, well, it has been interesting conversing with you these past few months or so. But I doubt I will ever do so again. I avoid people like that and cut them completely out. Too negative and far too immature for my taste.

JadeFox
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:34 AM
(is there a nation that doesn't have a history of racism to some extent..?)


Canada perhaps? :scratch:

Oh wait. I recall seeing a video about how Indian children were treated in Canada and it wasn't pretty so scratch that.

Okay seriously, Justine did get more crowd support, but Serena did have fans there as well. I think this time around it's more about rooting for two things:

A) A good final since the AO hasn't had one in a long while
and
B) Justine's the underdog.

And let's face it: Justine might have gotten Aussie crowd support this final, the Belgian that the Aussies still love the most is Kim.

moby
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:35 AM
The analogy that he provided is akin me burning your house and your enemy's and saying, now you're both even.

I personally do NOT see Serena as looking butch or like a like a man. But maybe you do. And if that's the case, well, it has been interesting conversing with you these past few months or so. But I doubt I will ever do so again. I avoid people like that and cut them completely out. Too negative and far too immature for my taste.I'm sorry that you completely missed the point of his post.

The point was not about how Serena or Justine looked, but people's attitudes towards how they look.
The point is: even if Serena and Justine had some butch and unfeminine attributes, why should anyone care?

To be horribly insulted at the suggestion that they might be not stereotypically feminine... is to play into society's black-and-white view of femininity and masculinity. And that is what is the problem. That's what hurts women and men that do not fit into the stereotypical construct. That's why there's sexism, that's why there's homophobia, that's why little boys are afraid to be called sissy.

It's supposed to be insulting, but it really shouldn't be, and we should stop thinking of it as such.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:35 AM
no. he was nit trying to be fair.

It was a clever way to take a swipe at Serena under the disguise of covering all angles.

Another poster justified Serena's lack of support in the stand by stating that "nobody want to support someone who look like a bully"
He continues in another thread this at her size, how serena was twice as big as all the other "girls", inferring it was not a fair contest.

You don't speak for me.... I have said a lot of complimentary things about Serena. I do think she is much stronger and that it's a huge advantage for her. That doesn't mean that she is not winning fair and square. Pete Sampras also was a physical beast but he won fair and square. Justine, Roger, John McEnroe were blessed with insane natural talent. Tough crap. Such is life. Bjoern Borg had a resting heart rate of 37! Again, such is life. Serena deserves all of her victories and does have tremendous natural power. Of course, many fans will see her power and feel a bit sorry for girls that cannot handle her power. Oh well, too bad. Anyways, if you want to continue to feel that I was taking a swipe at Serena I cannot control that. But I know that I was not. I was actually arguing against the mentality on this board that feels that it is ok to call her or Justine or any other player names because of their appearance. Bartoli, Kleybanova, Kournikova, Schiavone and many others have also been hated upon for their appearance. It's not cool!

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:40 AM
I don't see how either can be taken as 'butch', Serena has a whole lot of muscle mass but she still very feminine to me and Justine is way too petite to be even thought of as 'butch'....I think the whole 'stiff' persona she has is what it is.

If you want butch, Petrova is hands down the most masculine player on the tour and I'm sorry if that offends her fans but her body shape and posture give me such impressions.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:41 AM
RVD, Sorry If you took that the wrong way. I wasn't being serious. Serena does not really look like a drag queen per se (not that there would be anything wrong with that in my eyes because I am not intolerant!) Renee Richards endured horrible discrimination in fact. Justine does not look boyish really either. My point is precisely that people should stop calling them petty, horrible names and get on with respecting their achievements and development as players and people. So, again, sorry if I offended you with my hyperbole :) :kiss:Treufreund, I have nothing personally against you, and I think that you should at least know that.

That said, maybe the difference between you and I is cultural, as it is with me and Moby. Maybe insults are handled much more loosely where you grew up. However, the way you made your point was simply insulting to both parties, and I seriously doubt that neither Henin nor Serena would take very kindly to your description of them. Just my opinion, of course.
I just believe that you could easily have made the point without the seemingly back-handed compliment/insult. :shrug:
Women are sensitive when it comes to looks, to say the least.

I can't believe that I'm defending Henin. :haha:

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:42 AM
I'm sorry that you completely missed the point of his post.

The point was not about how Serena or Justine looked, but people's attitudes towards how they look.
The point is: even if Serena and Justine had some butch and unfeminine attributes, why should anyone care?

To be horribly insulted at the suggestion that they might be not stereotypically feminine... is to play into society's black-and-white view of femininity and masculinity. And that is what is the problem. That's what hurts women and men that do not fit into the stereotypical construct.

Thanks, moby... I should have worded my post more carefully to say that I don't personally think that Serena or Justine look that way but rather that is the type of caricature of them that we constantly encounter on this board. I really thought people would see the bigger point of my post... but this is TF lol. Glad you got it. Hopefully they will accept my apologies but I know what I meant and that I was coming from a place of support and tolerance so it's all good. I will admit that it is nice to know that posters like you have been here for a long time get my point.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:43 AM
You don't speak for me.... I have said a lot of complimentary things about Serena. I do think she is much stronger and that it's a huge advantage for her. That doesn't mean that she is not winning fair and square. Pete Sampras also was a physical beast but he won fair and square. Justine, Roger, John McEnroe were blessed with insane natural talent. Tough crap. Such is life. Bjoern Borg had a resting heart rate of 37! Again, such is life. Serena deserves all of her victories and does have tremendous natural power. Of course, many fans will see her power and feel a bit sorry for girls that cannot handle her power. Oh well, too bad. Anyways, if you want to continue to feel that I was taking a swipe at Serena I cannot control that. But I know that I was not. I was actually arguing against the mentality on this board that feels that it is ok to call her or Justine or any other player names because of their appearance. Bartoli, Kleybanova, Kournikova, Schiavone and many others have also been hated upon for their appearance. It's not cool!
Not buying it.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:45 AM
I'm sorry that you completely missed the point of his post.

The point was not about how Serena or Justine looked, but people's attitudes towards how they look.
The point is: even if Serena and Justine had some butch and unfeminine attributes, why should anyone care?

To be horribly insulted at the suggestion that they might be not stereotypically feminine... is to play into society's black-and-white view of femininity and masculinity. And that is what is the problem. That's what hurts women and men that do not fit into the stereotypical construct. That's why there's sexism, that's why there's homophobia, that's why little boys are afraid to be called sissy.No, actually Moby, you did.

Didn't you say that you are Asian?
And didn't you post in another thread that Asians don't view racism in that same way as "Black" Americans? As an Asian man, how in the hell are you going to tell a Black woman that she looks like a man?

You know what?
If you refuse to even consider that a woman defined as a man isn't and insult, then you aren't as smart as I originally thought.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:47 AM
Treufreund, I have nothing personally against you, and I think that you should at least know that.

That said, maybe the difference between you and I is cultural, as it is with me and Moby. Maybe insults are handled much more loosely where you grew up. However, the way you made your point was simply insulting to both parties, and I seriously doubt that neither Henin nor Serena would take very kindly to your description of them. Just my opinion, of course.
I just believe that you could easily have made the point without the seemingly back-handed compliment/insult. :shrug:
Women are sensitive when it comes to looks, to say the least.

I can't believe that I'm defending Henin. :haha:

I don't even really think it's all that insulting. It was rather hyperbole. I don't think women or anybody should feel that they have to look a certain way. looking boyish or manly (whatever that means) is just fine, especially for a world class athlete! I hate gender role intolerance. I made those "backhanded compliments" basically to say that I could call them those names and still realize that it's okay to be that way. The next thing in my post that I wrote was "WHO CARES?". They are top athletes and that is what counts. I was just appalled at how many people really just hated on Federer for crying and losing control of his emotions. I mean, are we living in the Stone Age?

moby
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:50 AM
No, actually Moby, you did.

Didn't you say that you are Asian?
And didn't you post in another thread that Asians don't view racism in that same way as "Black" Americans? As an Asian man, how in the hell are you going to tell a Black woman that she looks like a man?

You know what?
If you refuse to even consider that a woman defined as a man isn't and insult, then you aren't as smart as I originally thought.It's supposed to be an insult, but it shouldn't be one.

Just as little boys who like dolls shouldn't be made to feel bad that they portray certain stereotypically feminine traits.
I don't know any black women who look like men, do you?

Asian men are often feminised in mainstream (Western) thought anyway.
(And black men are hypermasculinised - and no that's not a "good" thing either.)
My view is that they should be secure and look past that.
The fact that these distinctions are made in discourse is of course harmful.
But I think this is a discussion for another thread.

P.S. I don't recall in what context I said that "Asians don't view racism in that same way as "Black" Americans?". Not sure why it's relevant.

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:50 AM
Not buying it.

whether you buy it or not is not really that important. I tried to clarify but you will believe what you want and that's fine. I just hope that we can both agree that hatred based on non-conformity to narrowly defined gender roles is ugly and painful.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:52 AM
I don't even really think it's all that insulting. It was rather hyperbole.To a Black woman, such a description is exceedingly insulting.
Exscue me, but I'm still blown away as to how an Asian male is gonna have the tenacity to qualify what is and isn't insulting to a Black woman. That's just so amazing.
I don't think women or anybody should feel that they have to look a certain way. looking boyish or manly (whatever that means) is just fine, especially for a world class athlete! I hate gender role intolerance. I made those "backhanded compliments" basically to say that I could call them those names and still realize that it's okay to be that way. The next thing in my post that I wrote was "WHO CARES?". They are top athletes and that is what counts. I was just appalled at how many people really just hated on Federer for crying and losing control of his emotions. I mean, are we living in the Stone Age?For the most part we agree. In fact, we agree on every point you made in THIS post.
However, my problem has to do with the anaolgy, not the primary point.

We're good though. I take you at your word that you intentionally meant no harm. :)

treufreund
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:57 AM
No, actually Moby, you did.

Didn't you say that you are Asian?
And didn't you post in another thread that Asians don't view racism in that same way as "Black" Americans? As an Asian man, how in the hell are you going to tell a Black woman that she looks like a man?

You know what?
If you refuse to even consider that a woman defined as a man isn't and insult, then you aren't as smart as I originally thought.

Go to the root of the problem though! The idea that calling a person "a man" or "a woman" would be an insult is actually insulting to all men or all women. If someone calls me "girl" jokingly, then should I be insulted? Not really. I am only insulted if I think that "girls" are bad in some way. Self-esteem and a person's value goes much deeper than his or her adherence to the image prescribed to him or her by society. I have some male friends who are very "feminine" and are truly lovely people. I just want to know why you are not questioning WHY YOU WOULD BE INSULTED TO BE SEEN AS THE OPPOSITE GENDER??!! Go deeper and ask why and get back to me. I am just challenging you to think outside the box. I am being totally sincere with you and want to know if you could consider how confining that paradigm is. If someone came up to me and said "wow I though you were straight' or "wow I thought you were black" then should I be insulted? surprised maybe but insulted on a deeper level. Not at all. I can only be insulted if I find being straight or black to be inferior.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:58 AM
It's supposed to be an insult, but it shouldn't be one.

Just as little boys who like dolls shouldn't be made to feel bad that they portray certain stereotypically feminine traits.
I don't know any black women who look like men, do you?

Asian men are often feminised in mainstream (Western) thought anyway.
My view is that they should be secure and look past that.
But I think this is a discussion for another thread.I believe that you're missing my point now Moby.
Are you suggesting that treufreund's analogy was ideal, or even acceptable.
What i'm saying is that the point could have been made without insulting either woman.
Why not simply say that some woman in various societies resemble men, or possess manly characteristics, and that there is nothing wrong with that? Rather than this Serena looks very butch with the bulging muscles and her way of carrying herself. She is kind of luck a really muscular drag queen. I'm simply offering a measure of perspective so that folks don't feel insulted.
How can you not understand this?

moby
Jan 31st, 2010, 01:59 AM
Go to the root of the problem though! The idea that calling a person "a man" or "a woman" would be an insult is actually insulting to all men or all women. If someone calls me "girl" jokingly, then should I be insulted? Not really. I am only insulted if I think that "girls" are bad in some way. Self-esteem and a person's value goes much deeper than his or her adherence to the image prescribed to him or her by society. I have some male friends who are very "feminine" and are truly lovely people. I just want to know why you are not questioning WHY YOU WOULD BE INSULTED TO BE SEEN AS THE OPPOSITE GENDER??!! Go deeper and ask why and get back to me. I am just challenging you to think outside the box. I am being totally sincere with you and want to know if you could consider how confining that paradigm is. If someone came up to me and said "wow I though you were straight' or "wow I thought you were black" then should I be insulted? surprised maybe but insulted on a deeper level. Not at all. I can only be insulted if I find being straight or black to be inferior.Thank you, this is what I'm trying to say.
I believe that you're missing my point now Moby.
Are you suggesting that treufreund's analogy was ideal, or even acceptable.
What i'm saying is that the point could have been made without insulting either woman.
Why not simply say that some woman in various societies resemble men, or possess manly characteristics, and that there is nothing wrong with that? OK, I get it. I just think that neither woman should feel insulted by that (even if it's not accurate - though they are both more "manly" than the average female... but that's partly because we associate things like physical strength and courage and ambition with men - qualities which both Serena and Ju possess in spades).

We shouldn't limit the "insults" to theoretical abstractions.
I imagine treufreund could have made his point in a less controversial and more politically correct fashion, but I don't think controversy is always bad.
Sometimes it makes us question our emotive reactions to things. And I think that's a good thing.

Experimentee
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:03 AM
I don't see how either can be taken as 'butch', Serena has a whole lot of muscle mass but she still very feminine to me and Justine is way too petite to be even thought of as 'butch'....I think the whole 'stiff' persona she has is what it is.

If you want butch, Petrova is hands down the most masculine player on the tour and I'm sorry if that offends her fans but her body shape and posture give me such impressions.

I actually think the most butch players on tour are Australians. For example, Sam Stosur, Nicole Pratt, Rennae Stubbs. I am not sure if people from other countries cheer against them because they are butch.

From reading posts on here I know people cheer against Serena because they think she is butch. However I don't get it as the ones I mentioned earlier are actually more manly than Serena is.

tennisbum79
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:08 AM
I actually think the most butch players on tour are Australians. For example, Sam Stosur, Nicole Pratt, Rennae Stubbs. I am not sure if people from other countries cheer against them because they are butch.

From reading posts on here I know people cheer against Serena because they think she is butch. However I don't get it as the ones I mentioned earlier are actually more manly than Serena is.
That is the explanation few decided to settle on later on.
Maybe because the first line of arguments were met by skeptical responses.

alicemalice
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:08 AM
Serena had plenty of support, too. In fact, when Justine went onto the stage to collect her dinner plate, someone booed her really loudly. It was rude, but rather hilarious.

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:08 AM
I actually think the most butch players on tour are Australians. For example, Sam Stosur, Nicole Pratt, Rennae Stubbs. I am not sure if people from other countries cheer against them because they are butch.

Yeah I wouldn't disagree with you there, Sam Stosur is quite butch.
I'm not sure people aren't as animated as to cheer against them because of it, but certainly they probably aren't liked as much because they don't fit the glamour mold like so many on the tour.I definitely think that.

And I think those that use their reasoning for being against Serena because she is butch are just using it as a shallow reasoning for something deeper.
Serena isn't butch in the slightest, in fact I'm sure she's probably one of the more girly players on tour on court.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:13 AM
Go to the root of the problem though! The idea that calling a person "a man" or "a woman" would be an insult is actually insulting to all men or all women. If someone calls me "girl" jokingly, then should I be insulted? Not really. I am only insulted if I think that "girls" are bad in some way. Self-esteem and a person's value goes much deeper than his or her adherence to the image prescribed to him or her by society. I have some male friends who are very "feminine" and are truly lovely people. I just want to know why you are not questioning WHY YOU WOULD BE INSULTED TO BE SEEN AS THE OPPOSITE GENDER??!! Go deeper and ask why and get back to me. I am just challenging you to think outside the box. I am being totally sincere with you and want to know if you could consider how confining that paradigm is. If someone came up to me and said "wow I though you were straight' or "wow I thought you were black" then should I be insulted? surprised maybe but insulted on a deeper level. Not at all. I can only be insulted if I find being straight or black to be inferior.Sure, I'll engage you in the psychological aspects here.

Insults are handled differently from person to person. Oftentimes, the ones who are most hurt, or insulted, are the ones who've suffered some long-term historical event, OR is possessed of a phobia based upon a traumatic event.

People often suggest that Blacks should get over their anger for hundreds of years of misrepresentation and racial prejudice (and slavery, for instance). I say, I will when I'm not constantly reminded of theat fact everytime I'm out and about, or when viewing TV, or looking at magazines, etc...

Sure, it's easy to suggest that people shouldn't be insulted, or that they should be more clinical or analytical when insulted, and have more perspective. However, the fact is, people are emotional creatures. And we are ruled by perception. They FEEL. And they PERCEIVE differently on a cultural level (which is why I originally made the cultural distinction), and so they hurt when insulted.

I've personally been called every name a Black man can be called. I've had White gang pull knives on me, and even fought White adults as an adolescent. I hold no grudges even with these experiences. But I will inform others of what is hurtful or insulting if they don't already know.

Serena has had it tough out their, and I'm sure Henin has as well. But using them to make your point was a bit much, is all I was trying to convey.

mykarma
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:15 AM
I don't even really think it's all that insulting. It was rather hyperbole. I don't think women or anybody should feel that they have to look a certain way. looking boyish or manly (whatever that means) is just fine, especially for a world class athlete! I hate gender role intolerance. I made those "backhanded compliments" basically to say that I could call them those names and still realize that it's okay to be that way. The next thing in my post that I wrote was "WHO CARES?". They are top athletes and that is what counts. I was just appalled at how many people really just hated on Federer for crying and losing control of his emotions. I mean, are we living in the Stone Age?

WTF is going on. In one post you apologize for your statement and in the very next one you try and defend it. You then have the nerve to call your statements " "backhanded compliments". Do you even know what the hell you believe? :help:

alicemalice
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:16 AM
Yeah I wouldn't disagree with you there, Sam Stosur is quite butch.
I'm not sure people aren't as animated as to cheer against them because of it, but certainly they probably aren't liked as much because they don't fit the glamour mold like so many on the tour.I definitely think that.

I disagree. Stosur does not qualify as butch. Just because she doesn't prance around the court wearing frills and pom poms on her socks, doesn't mean that she's butch.

And Experimentee: I don't think they get "cheered against", I just think the crowds tend to go for the opposition because all three you listed are rather hopeless (except in doubles). Even in Hit for Haiti, Stosur was hopeless.

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:16 AM
Thank you, this is what I'm trying to say.
OK, I get it. I just think that neither woman should feel insulted by that (even if it's not accurate - though they are both more "manly" than the average female... but that's partly because we associate things like physical strength and courage and ambition with men - qualities which both Serena and Ju possess in spades).

We shouldn't limit the "insults" to theoretical abstractions.
I imagine treufreund could have made his point in a less controversial and more politically correct fashion, but I don't think controversy is always bad.
Sometimes it makes us question our emotive reactions to things. And I think that's a good thing.:lol: The political correctness argument aside, I think that we actually all agree. :)

Randy H
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:20 AM
I think that the crowd seemed as if they were neutral early on until the bad call against Justine...Then in the second set it was clearly in favour of Henin, which I would expect since the crowd obviously would have been pulling for it to go to 3 sets. By the time the 3rd set got underway, it seemed like it was a lot more even again :) Just a case of rooting for the underdog, and wanting to see a match that went 3 sets, especially since they've had a few blow outs the last couple of years!

RVD
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:23 AM
For the record, some of the most attractive and sexiest women I've known, or know of, possess masculine charcteristics and qualities.
Thick eyebrows - Brook Sheilds.
Cut and Striated physiques - Name any WWE star, or track and field Olympic sweetie.
Even a woman with a deep voice, though not man-deep. :scared: I forget that actress' name. :scratch:

Serena is my ideal woman, physically, because I too am into boldy-scupting. And she just has a perfect canvas upon which to paint. :drool:

And by the way, some bald women are HAWT too. :hehehe:

Experimentee
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:37 AM
I disagree. Stosur does not qualify as butch. Just because she doesn't prance around the court wearing frills and pom poms on her socks, doesn't mean that she's butch.

And Experimentee: I don't think they get "cheered against", I just think the crowds tend to go for the opposition because all three you listed are rather hopeless (except in doubles). Even in Hit for Haiti, Stosur was hopeless.

Stosur does walk in a masculine way and is muscular.

And I didn't say they are cheered against, I said I didn't know if they were.

Going by the logic that people cheer for underdogs, if they are hopeless as you say, then they should have the crowd support in most matches they play. If it's true that people don't like to cheer "butch" players, then they should not have the crowd support. That's what I was trying to determine.

Polikarpov
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:47 AM
The Australian loves underdogs it seems.

alicemalice
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:48 AM
Stosur does walk in a masculine way and is muscular.

And I didn't say they are cheered against, I said I didn't know if they were.

Going by the logic that people cheer for underdogs, if they are hopeless as you say, then they should have the crowd support in most matches they play. If it's true that people don't like to cheer "butch" players, then they should not have the crowd support. That's what I was trying to determine.

Since when does being muscular = butch? By that logic, Kirilenko is butch, too. And I don't see how Stosur walks in a masculine way. How does one walk in a masculine way? Please elaborate.

Being the underdog and being hopeless are not the same thing. Justine was the underdog in last night's final and SHE isn't hopeless. Ditto Andy Murray in tonight's final.

HRHoliviasmith
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:49 AM
I disagree. Stosur does not qualify as butch. Just because she doesn't prance around the court wearing frills and pom poms on her socks, doesn't mean that she's butch.

And Experimentee: I don't think they get "cheered against", I just think the crowds tend to go for the opposition because all three you listed are rather hopeless (except in doubles). Even in Hit for Haiti, Stosur was hopeless.

:spit: wow.

Anyway, I willl re-iterate that Serena got a lot of support at Aussie in 2007. i remember being pleasantly suprised in the final that they were pulling for her over sharapova. so I honestly doubt that her "lack of support" this time was due primarily, if at all, to racism. if this were the US Open on the other hand, then yes I would agree wholeheartedly that racism would be the major factor.

alicemalice
Jan 31st, 2010, 02:52 AM
:spit: wow.

Just calling it how it is. Did you see how many basic shots she missed? And by basic, I mean shots that your average person with a reasonable level of fitness and coordination could make.

Kudos to her for participating, but she was by far the weakest link.

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:14 AM
I disagree. Stosur does not qualify as butch. Just because she doesn't prance around the court wearing frills and pom poms on her socks, doesn't mean that she's butch.

And Experimentee: I don't think they get "cheered against", I just think the crowds tend to go for the opposition because all three you listed are rather hopeless (except in doubles). Even in Hit for Haiti, Stosur was hopeless.
Well I see Sam as butch because I'm gay and I'm pretty sure she's gay.The mannerisms I see may not be obvious to others.
But how she carries herself is pretty butch to me, the way she wears her hair and how she talks also.
Not just the amount of muscles she has and how she is built now.
I'll add that I find her gorgeous, by the way and that I find her EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE:drool:

Just calling it how it is. Did you see how many basic shots she missed? And by basic, I mean shots that your average person with a reasonable level of fitness and coordination could make.

Kudos to her for participating, but she was by far the weakest link.
:haha: it's so true:hysteric:

Thkmra
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:27 AM
Justine looks more like a man than Serena does. Justine has no boobs, chest looks like a man, no ass, walks like a dude, plain Jane with beady eyes and you say Serena looks like a man. Surely you jest.

:lol::lol::help:

Thkmra
Jan 31st, 2010, 03:33 AM
Bingo. And acts less like one too. And Serena's manly serve doesnt help her much either.

And of course Steffi was the picture of femininity!!!:tape:

Dominic
Jan 31st, 2010, 04:14 AM
:mad: Pathetic.

Serena does act like a bully sometimes, you cant deny that.

ireneteri
Jan 31st, 2010, 04:33 AM
No. They've been cheering for her in the other matches. It is because they like an under-dog and the crowd appreciate Henin's game.

:worship:exactly, her game is what made me excited to watch tennis.

Paneru
Jan 31st, 2010, 04:37 AM
What does it matter?

Volcana
Jan 31st, 2010, 06:29 AM
The remarks about the Australian people being racist are stupid.Maybe you want to ask aboriginal Australians about that.

The 2nd Law
Jan 31st, 2010, 06:30 AM
Um reading Wikipedia has f**k all to do with knowing Australian history.
What a joke you are coming on here and thinking you have the right to tar all Australians as racist and then have the nerve to say it's the reason for the 'booing' of Serena.
Ironically, you're the ignorant one here.

Yes, unfortunately parts of Australia are racist, sadly there's going to be racism everywhere and how country's deal with it is going to be different.
However, saying Serena being booed is the result of Australian racism is one of the stupidest things I've read on this forum in a long time.
And the stupidy of your post is evident when Australian Serena fans are insulted by such accusations, cause really...you're treating the Aussie Serena fans like sh*t coming out with such abhnorant garbage.

Now, as said, many many times, Australians love an underdog and contrary to what people believe Federer doesn't always have the crowd's support and I remember a specific match (Janko Tipservic(sp?)) where the crowd was DEFEANING against Federer.
Contrary to what those want to believe in 07 when Serena came back unseeded the crowd was behind her.

I think that some Serena fans scope out the smallest of negativity to jump on it like it's their life's mission to be the protectors of Serena Williams, to think that she's going to get a hard time everywhere and anywhere.
And when she doesn't, they'll still look and fabricate something.
It gets a bit too much when idiots start thinking they can label a whole nation racist because an the tradition of backing the underdog isn't accepted and then misinterpreting (deliberately) booing a crap call as booing one of the players.
I love watching the intensity and skill of Serena, and I love how she's such a different person off court, but certain fans of hers are the most pathetic representation of hostility and negativity I've seen in my life.




Took the words right out of my mouth :worship:

I see this outstanding post was largely ignored though.

Volcana
Jan 31st, 2010, 06:34 AM
Go to google, and search on the terms "aboriginal Australians racism"

I'm not touting as vaild every entry, but look at the preponderance of them. There is absolutely no way you can argue that a whole LOT of people see racism in Australia. Starting with the UN.

Keadz
Jan 31st, 2010, 06:50 AM
I didn't realise Serena was aboriginal!

An Aussie won the Aussie Open :) AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!!

oh wait, I'm meant to hate her because she is aboriginal right?

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 06:56 AM
Go to google, and search on the terms "aboriginal Australians racism"

I'm not touting as vaild every entry, but look at the preponderance of them. There is absolutely no way you can argue that a whole LOT of people see racism in Australia. Starting with the UN.

Perhaps also add to that American Indians and their treatment?
Good reading that.
You know, I've heard there's a WHOLE LOT of racism in America too, funny that.

honigschlecker
Jan 31st, 2010, 07:47 AM
The Australian crowd ALWAYS supports the underdog/comeback player UNLESS they are playing Federer. :rolleyes:



According to the bet odds Henin wasn't the underdog. ;-)

PizzaMan
Jan 31st, 2010, 07:47 AM
Perhaps also add to that American Indians and their treatment?
Good reading that.
You know, I've heard there's a WHOLE LOT of racism in America too, funny that.

Yeah, and that's the main reason that, in their own country, Vee and Ree don't get the crowd support that their accomplishments would warrent. Hell, American crowds root for foreigners against Serena and Venus all the time. So if racism results in less crowd support for Vee and Ree in the US, why wouldn't the same hold true for Australia? I'm not saying racism is the reason the crowd supported Justine over Serena, I'm just saying that your pointing out racism in the US doesn't disprove possible effects on crowd support due to racism in Australia.

sorceress
Jan 31st, 2010, 07:55 AM
Yeah, and that's the main reason that, in their own country, Vee and Ree don't get the crowd support that their accomplishments would warrent. Hell, American crowds root for foreigners against Serena and Venus all the time. So if racism results in less crowd support for Vee and Ree in the US, why wouldn't the same hold true for Australia? I'm not saying racism is the reason the crowd supported Justine over Serena, I'm just saying that your pointing out racism in the US doesn't disprove possible effects on crowd support due to racism in Australia.
Well we can argue til the cows come home about possible racism, but the reality is it's unlikely.
And if it was the case, the crowd wouldn't have got behind Serena in 07 and the crowd appeared to change intensity during the match.


As I type this, the crowd is getting behind Andy Murray, apparently the underdog isn't bullsh*t after all.

tennnisfannn
Jan 31st, 2010, 08:08 AM
If I may touch on size of r a moment, when has size mattered when it comes to justine, she has routinely beaten playes like Davenport, Petrova and ElenaD and Maria. All much bigger players, stronger and very talented players. We cannot just pull the 'size' card just because she lost to serena.

Szavay #1
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:09 AM
a lot of tennis fans will support the underdog. it's not unusual so there's no drama here. :wavey:

Libertango
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:10 AM
Weirdly, I thought the support was about 50/50; I heard loads of calls for Serena, and when she won, the crowd reaction was great, which it hasn't always been when she's won. I think we're all too sensitive on this issue and ready to pounce on anything.

Just Do It
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:11 AM
They are all racist, obviously.

alicemalice
Jan 31st, 2010, 11:38 PM
Go to google, and search on the terms "aboriginal Australians racism"

That's a really ridiculous argument. Go to Google, and search the terms [Any Country Name] + racism, and you'll find plenty of results.

I'm not touting as vaild every entry, but look at the preponderance of them. There is absolutely no way you can argue that a whole LOT of people see racism in Australia. Starting with the UN.

My God, you're so misinformed it makes my head spin. The UN condemned the GOVERNMENT as racist, NOT the people of Australia - and it had NOTHING to do with Indigenous Australians. It was because of the government's handling of asylum seekers (which BTW, was NOT supported by the majority of Australians, as evidenced by the many polls/protests at the time).


I'm not saying that there aren't racist people here. There are in EVERY country. But you're generalising (which BTW is a trait of the very thing you're talking about - racism) AND you're misinformed. I'm rather amused by the reference to ignorance in your signature . . .

miffedmax
Feb 1st, 2010, 12:10 AM
The &^%!@ crowd was for Henin even when she played the most adorable woman in the world.

The Witch-king
Feb 1st, 2010, 12:18 AM
They are all racist, obviously.

hilarious. never heard that one before

miffedmax
Feb 1st, 2010, 12:53 AM
In a crowd of 15,000 people, there were probably about 14,999 reasons for supporting the player each person supported.

Some of them were probably rooting for a happy ending to the Justine story.
Some probably considered her the underdog.
Some were probably racist jerks.
Some were probably rooting for Serena.
Some probably were neutral and just wanted to see good tennis.
Some may have been upset by the bad call.
Some probably changed sides several times during the match.
The list goes on and on and on...

Nicolás89
Feb 1st, 2010, 12:59 AM
Maybe you want to ask aboriginal Australians about that.

:help:

Seriously, you're looking stupid now.

trufanjay
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:30 AM
who cares.......she won!!! :lol:

And seriously, people need to get over that US Open incident already

tennisphilia
Feb 1st, 2010, 01:33 AM
From watching the match it was obvious that the crowd was behind Henin. I asked my casual tennis fan friends why and they said everyone supports a comeback player / the underdog. Agree or disagree? And if this is true, does anyone remember whether the crowd was for Serena during AO 07? Just curious.

-EDIT-
Don't know if this is the sole reason, but the Sydney Morning Herald has been blasting Serena these past few days. Today's title was "Gifted Serena Should Really Be Thanking The Big Man Upstairs: Pollard", and a quote "Williams' presence was not the only absurdity at the Open"... But a couple of sports writers may not accurately represent the public's opinion I guess.

Same crowd was for Serena during the 2005 semi against Sharapova.
They were also behind her when she beat Sharapova in 2007.

yassiesj20
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:38 PM
who cares.......she won!!! :lol:

And seriously, people need to get over that US Open incident already

Thank you!And to those idiots who said that she looks like a bully-judging from your comments you have no right to act morally superior.:fiery:

Golovinjured.
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:59 PM
Maybe you want to ask aboriginal Australians about that.

Maybe you want to shut your face about things you know nothing about.

friendsita
Feb 5th, 2010, 08:03 PM
they were with juju cause she was the underdog.

serenafan08
Feb 5th, 2010, 08:11 PM
Same crowd was for Serena during the 2005 semi against Sharapova.
They were also behind her when she beat Sharapova in 2007.

Exactly. Australia loves Serena; she's won the title five times and has made it clear that she loves playing there. It's obvious that Australia loves seeing her there too. Yes, the crowd was behind Justine as well, but I thought it was more because they wanted to see a close match. Justine fell behind in the first set and came back, then ran off 5 straight games to force a third; that's why the crowd was behind her. But when Serena won, there was a good ovation - at least I thought there was.