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View Full Version : Don't you think it's unfair for Premier Tournament winners?


Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:22 PM
Like Lisicki, Mauresmo, Schiavone, Dulgheru, etc that they can't even play at Bali and try to earn big points there? They won premier events but can't play at any YEC but those Mickey Mouse queens can.

ElusiveChanteuse
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Maybe they think the winners of Premier events would usually go to Doha.:spit:

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:25 PM
Maybe they think the winners of Premier events would usually go to Doha.:spit:

but that's not the case obviously :shrug:

DragonFlame
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:27 PM
You're late, i've been saying this for the past weeks now. I've been saying MANY points for the whole tour to improve on though... I should make a list and tour reformingplan and send it to them. :o

joyforall
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:27 PM
why don't the WTA people make another tourney like Bali but only for the winners of premier tournaments but is not a part of YEC?

hahahahaha it'd be something if it happened and in a year all top 8 won all the premieres. hahahahhaa

Edinboro
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:27 PM
The whole concept of Bali seems rather silly to me anyways. There should only be one year ending championship imo.

DragonFlame
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:29 PM
why don't the WTA people make another tourney like Bali but only for the winners of premier tournaments but is not a part of YEC?

hahahahaha it'd be something if it happened and in a year all top 8 won all the premieres. hahahahhaa

There's too little players that win premier's for a tournament like that to be possible. The only players out of the top of my head who did this(and didn't win an international or qualify for SEC) are lisicki, mauresmo, dulgheru, schiavone and sharapova.

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:30 PM
I think Bali should include those premier winners who don't qualify for Doha as well.

BuTtErFrEnA
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:33 PM
you mean like the "slam winner" rule?

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:34 PM
you mean like the "slam winner" rule?

What "slam winner" rule? :sobbing:

joyforall
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:35 PM
or how about making a tournament for people who have not gotten a chance to try what its like to lift the winning trophy the whole year! it would be awesome! coz one out of those ladies who comes out short will be surely lift the winning trophy!

and the idea is just plain crazy!

na li and hantuchova will surely on the list :) no offense guys! :D

BuTtErFrEnA
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:38 PM
lol a slam winner who misses out on the 8 spots for yec could get a wc

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:41 PM
lol a slam winner who misses out on the 8 spots for yec could get a wc

Oh no I mean Bali should keep their rules the highest ranked players who has won international titles, but instead this time includes those premier winners who don't qualify for Doha as well. So Dulgheru doesn't necessarily qualify if her ranking is not high enough.

DragonFlame
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:44 PM
What "slam winner" rule? :sobbing:

If you make the rules like this:

Doha: 'grandslamwinners automatically qualify for SEC'
Bali: 'Players who win ANY tournament are in the race towards bali'
Fedcup not in the same week as Bali

You'd get these player fields:

Doha:

Williams
Williams
Safina
Clijsters
Dementieva
Wozniacki
Azarenka
Kuznetsova

Bali:

Jankovic
Zvonereva
Bartoli
Stosur
Pennetta
Lisicki
Mauresmo
Sharapova
Medina-Guarrigues
Martinez-Sanchez
Wickmayer
Schiavone

Now that's what i call year-end championships.:bounce: And of course this is part of my tour reforming plan :p

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:46 PM
If you make the rules like this:

Doha: 'grandslamwinner automatically qualify for SEC'
Bali: 'Players who win ANY tournament are in the race towards bali'
Fedcup not in the same week as Bali

You'd get these player fields:

Doha:

Williams
Williams
Safina
Clijsters
Dementieva
Wozniacki
Azarenka
Kuznetsova

Bali:

Jankovic
Zvonereva
Bartoli
Stosur
Pennetta
Lisicki
Mauresmo
Sharapova
Medina-Guarrigues
Martinez-Sanchez
Wickmayer
Schiavone

Now that's what i call year-end championships.:bounce:

That's what I meant! That's perfect. Much better than the current state. :tape:

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:48 PM
There's too little players that win premier's for a tournament like that to be possible. The only players out of the top of my head who did this(and didn't win an international or qualify for SEC) are lisicki, mauresmo, dulgheru and schiavone.

Sharapova too :sobbing:

DragonFlame
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Sharapova too :sobbing:

Ehhh of course, sorry. :o Forgot her because in my head she's in a different league :lol: I was thinking 2010 already.

Julian.
Oct 26th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Ehhh of course, sorry. :o Forgot her because in my head she's in a different league :lol: I was thinking 2010 already.

Don't worry, I don't even remember Masha until you put out that list after our revised rules :sobbing: She is in different league for sure. :lol: and I think we forgot Pennetta too.

Shvedbarilescu
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:00 PM
The prize for winning a Premier event is 470 ranking points. The prize for winning an International event is just 280 points. But winning an International event does come with the added bonus of the possibility of being able to qualify for Bali, that is part of the prize that comes with winning an International event. It still isn't worth as much as winning a Premier event but the chance to go to Bali does at least add a bit of extra spice to it. And as all these International events have been deprived of the chance of featuring more than one top 10 player they certainly do need something to give them a sense of importance and relavance. The opportunity to contest for 600 ranking points at Bali does just that.

So no, as much as I like several of the players who did win Premier events, particularly Dulgheru, I can certainly see why it does actually make sense to keep this event for the players who excel in and win the International events not the Premier events.

Petkorazzi
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:00 PM
If they won premier tourneys, clearly they could win international events too. :shrug: Like Dulgheru there would have been totally random - yet to prove she's fully WTA material. I mean, if Dulgheru'd have won an international instead of Warsaw, she still wouldn't be in Bali because others accumulated more points than her so she's still left out. Premier events are much less than Internationals, and the chances are high that a Doha player wins there so that leaves us with like 4-5 players who are guaranteed to go to Bali with 1 premier tourney victory, even if they've done nothing before/after that.

DragonFlame
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:10 PM
So no, as much as I like several of the players who did win Premier events, particularly Dulgheru, I can certainly see why it does actually make sense to keep this event for the players who excel in and win the International events not the Premier events.

Yet it comes with the bigger risk that if topplayers who DO win an international event could get a considerably 'easy' 600 points by winning a supposedly year-end championships. Besides this, wasn't one of the goals a chance for newcomers to compete, i hardly see any newcomers there...
If bartoli for example wins this tournament she could end up #8 in the rankings, kinda unfair to players who actually did qualify for yec but are dealing with much tougher competition?

Sorry but i'm all for making this bali tournament meaningful by creating the best playerfields they can or not hold this tournament at all, right now i don't agree its rightfully hitting its purpose.

Valanga
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:14 PM
Hmmm, that's not a bad idea:)

pov
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:27 PM
[QUOTE=DragonFlame;16720355] I should make a list and tour reformingplan and send it to them. :o[/QUOTE
Yes. That's a good idea. Follow through on that.

miffedmax
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:30 PM
DragonFlame, old buddy, old pal, I think you've set the bar too low trying to come up with a system that's better. REALLY challenge yourself and try to come up with one that's WORSE.


It's a lot less challenging for me. For example, for Elena, pounding herself in the face for 4 hours with a brick would be worse than trimming her bangs.

danieln1
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:43 PM
I agree, they should do a second tier YEC, including international AND premier winners who didn´t make to Doha, the highest ranked players of course... it would be a way better field than the current one...

Wiggly
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:54 PM
The WTA tought that top 10-25 players would play more International events in order to win one and qualify for Bali.

Tsis scenario would've been perfect with Internationals events drawing big names and bigger crowd and Bali having a B list field instead of a D List entry list.

mk27
Oct 26th, 2009, 03:59 PM
The prize for winning a Premier event is 470 ranking points. The prize for winning an International event is just 280 points. But winning an International event does come with the added bonus of the possibility of being able to qualify for Bali, that is part of the prize that comes with winning an International event. It still isn't worth as much as winning a Premier event but the chance to go to Bali does at least add a bit of extra spice to it. And as all these International events have been deprived of the chance of featuring more than one top 10 player they certainly do need something to give them a sense of importance and relavance. The opportunity to contest for 600 ranking points at Bali does just that.

So no, as much as I like several of the players who did win Premier events, particularly Dulgheru, I can certainly see why it does actually make sense to keep this event for the players who excel in and win the International events not the Premier events.

But it's much easier to win an International event than a Premier event.
600 points for the Bali winner is just :cuckoo:
300 points should be the maximum.

Matt01
Oct 26th, 2009, 05:58 PM
But it's much easier to win an International event than a Premier event.
600 points for the Bali winner is just :cuckoo:
300 points should be the maximum.


You get 280 points for a win at an International Event. And you think that the winner of a tournament of the best players of the Internationals should only get 30 points more? I can se why some people think that 600 poits are too much but your suggestion makes no sense.

MBM
Oct 26th, 2009, 06:04 PM
maybe the wildcard spots should go to player who won premiers...

but francy wouldn't play as she is playing fed cup

FormerlyKnownAs
Oct 26th, 2009, 06:16 PM
Don't you think it's unfair for Premier Tournament winners?
No

mk27
Oct 26th, 2009, 06:41 PM
You get 280 points for a win at an International Event. And you think that the winner of a tournament of the best players of the Internationals should only get 30 points more? I can se why some people think that 600 poits are too much but your suggestion makes no sense.
You don't even get 600 points if you have reached a QF at a GS-tournament.
So 300 points should be enough.

But this whole tournament is a a big joke from the WTA. :rolleyes:
I don't think it has a long future with this kind of format.

-NAJ-
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:06 PM
They also need to make tournament for players who made 5 losses in row or more. What a fight would be for participation in that event!

dsanders06
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:13 PM
I don't see why they can't just make the tournament the year-end #9-20. Or a by-invitation-only event for selected up-and-comers. But a year-end championships with the likes of Martinez Sanchez and Medina Garrigues isn't doing anyone any favours.

Nickk
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Life is unfair in general. The world sucks. Accept that, things will always go the unpleasant way.

GAGAlady
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:21 PM
I think that theres deff flaws with this system that the WTA tour has, but overall the people who have made the cut for these Year End Tournies did so out of consistancy and to me thats more important than what some specific result attached to one specific player...at an event ect ect.

Those who made it have made it fairly and did so by the book...even if the book is flawed.
GAGA

GAGAlady
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:24 PM
You don't even get 600 points if you have reached a QF at a GS-tournament.
So 300 points should be enough.

But this whole tournament is a a big joke from the WTA. :rolleyes:
I don't think it has a long future with this kind of format.

the reason why the points are inflated and this tournament seems larger than life is because the point of WTA to host this event is to reward the best of the best.

Thats the very reason this even exists (wta championships) whats the point of having this sort of event if your not going to appropriately reward the players?

I fully appreciate the format in that it rewards the best and is of itself an achievement.

those who think otherwise perhaps may be upset that there player didnt qualify...but thats another matter. just my opinion...

GAGA

DiscoStick
Oct 26th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Bali was originally meant for 'up and coming' players.

HenryMag.
Oct 26th, 2009, 08:03 PM
They also need to make tournament for players who made 5 losses in row or more. What a fight would be for participation in that event!

And the player who wins less games would win the tourney...but you can't make DFs or miss returns :lol:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 26th, 2009, 08:17 PM
This is another MM tournament with the typical MM field. Top-20 players should have no business playing there and 280 points for the winner would be more than enough.

disco_rage
Oct 26th, 2009, 11:21 PM
I think the point in Bali is to award the lower ranked players who have had a good season and won a International title. I don't think the likes of Jankovic, Sharapova etc would really want to play as they feel they should be at the proper year-ends... Plus it's pretty rare for lower ranked/lower profile players to win the bigger events and really for example Warsaw it was obv a Premier event, that was not a Premier level field now was it.

Julian.
Oct 27th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Bali was originally meant for 'up and coming' players.

Based on the website banner, they are targeting people like Cibulkova, Azarenka, Bartoli, Srebotnik who were at the top 11-20 range last year.

*Jool*
Oct 27th, 2009, 06:44 PM
well...if they want to promote the Internationals, they could also make an "International race" taking only the points won in International events , winning titles or not :shrug:

I guess it's hard to find a perfect formula . People would still whine about any given one imo...

irma
Oct 27th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Why not go back to the old best of 16 tournament at madison square garden if they want more people to get a chance at the year end championship