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View Full Version : Unnoticed bombshell: WTA Tour breaking their own "Official Rules"


AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 10:59 AM
Granted, this is not the first time they neglect the rules e.g. they let Sharapova play doubles at Indian Wells, but this time they went too far, imo.
Not only they are stealing #1 from Serena by switching from 52-week to 50-week ranking system with no justified reason whereas the rules clearly state:
Points stay valid for 52 weeks from the week in which a Tournament is included in the WTA Tour Rankings totals.
(WTA Official Rules, page 194)

They violate another rule according to which Serena should be seeded 1st at the Season-Ending Championships:
Players or teams will be seeded based on the WTA Tour Rankings current the week prior to the Sony Ericsson Championships.
(WTA Official Rules, page 160)


WTG, Ms Allaster!

ce
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:03 AM
omg :help:

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM
they also stated that WTA Tour Champ pts from previous yr will be removed before this yrs champs started.

Thats the only exception.

Julian.
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Seed #1 and #2 doesn't make any difference anyway :shrug:

Venus is the one who is so screwed badly.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:07 AM
they also stated that WTA Tour Champ pts from previous yr will be removed before this yrs champs started.

Where did they state this? Page number in the rules, please.

C. Drone
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:08 AM
they are just desperate to put Dinara to the top. :shrug: :rolleyes:

i guess this is the glitch
rulebook, page 157
A. SONY ERICSSON CHAMPIONSHIPS

The top seven (7) players using the best of 16 ranking system,
starting with the beginning of the Tour Year, shall qualify for the
Sony Ericsson Championships. The qualification method will
count the 51 weeks of events, dropping off the ranking points
earned in the previous Sony Ericsson Championships the week
prior to the current Sony Ericsson Championships.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:12 AM
Where did they state this? Page number in the rules, please.

thats also in WTA Player Zone
2009 Rule Changes

2009 Race to the Sony Ericsson Championships Qualification Method:
Championships qualification will be based on the Best 16 ranking system and will start with results from the beginning of the
2009 WTA Tour year. To be consistent with the WTA Tour rankings, the 2008 Championships points will drop off the week prior
to the 2009 Championships.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:13 AM
What does this ^^^ have to do with the rankings and the YEC seedings? This part applies only to YEC "qualification method".

Matt01
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:17 AM
Big deal :rolleyes:

Lucemferre
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:26 AM
They are very determined to keep the drama surrounding Serena alive :o Please stop and respect this woman more :o:o:o She will retire in a couple of years anyway jeez

Lucemferre
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Big deal :rolleyes:

WTA breaking their own rules and it's not a big deal? Is that because Serena isn't your favorite? :lol:

tenn_ace
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Big deal :rolleyes:

this

shirgan
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:29 AM
what's the story about sharapova playing doubles? what was the rule they didn't enforce then?
I haven't been following all that much...

tenn_ace
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:30 AM
ps. I'm sure Serena probably herself wouldn't give a flying fuck

Dawson.
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM
http://i37.tinypic.com/sw4hee.jpg

Lucemferre
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:33 AM
ps. I'm sure Serena probably herself wouldn't give a flying fuck

This is not about Serena. If they will change their own 'official' rules as they please what's the point to have them? :weirdo:

C. Drone
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:33 AM
What does this ^^^ have to do with the rankings and the YEC seedings? This part applies only to YEC "qualification method".

they try to combine the race and the real rankings, to make a better and happier world.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:40 AM
they try to combine the race and the real rankings, to make a better and happier world.

They should've begun with banning Safina and Wozniacki then.

AnomyBC
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:47 AM
They should've begun with banning Safina and Wozniacki then.

First of all, Wozniacki does make the world happier and better. Second, they can't ban her because she's the WTA's next big superstar :)

shirgan
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:48 AM
They should've begun with banning Safina and Wozniacki then.
are you too angry to answer my question?
I'm honestly asking because I don't know...

Jorn
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:51 AM
One said they use the Race rankings for the YEC Seeds...


You can set the rules, but they may be broken ;)

volta
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:52 AM
ps. I'm sure Serena probably herself wouldn't give a flying fuck

oh that settles it then ...

just as long as Serena doesn't give a flying fuck WTA can do whatever they want :worship:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM
are you too angry to answer my question?
I'm honestly asking because I don't know...

Usually at mandatory events you are not allowed to play doubles if you skip singles. But that's if you are not Sharapova obviously.

C. Drone
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM
They should've begun with banning Safina and Wozniacki then.

and all the fun would disappear. :sad:

shirgan
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:59 AM
Usually at mandatory events you are not allowed to play doubles if you skip singles. But that's if you are not Sharapova obviously.
oh. ok thanks.

Caralenko
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:00 PM
:shrug: Rules are made to be broken. How else do we know they are there?

BuTtErFrEnA
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:10 PM
:shrug: Rules are made to be broken. How else do we know they are there?

this is funny...cause if the situation was reversed many of you would be crying about how the wta breaks its own rules for serena all the time :lol:

C. Drone
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:49 PM
:shrug: Rules are made to be broken. How else do we know they are there?

:help:

miffedmax
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:51 PM
It is a big deal because if--as it most likely will--it gets out it will just make the WTA look bad again. Like it or not, women's tennis has an image problem and the ongoing mismanagement of the WTA from its wonky (according to many) ratings system to the awful roadmap to its horrible inability to promote its talent ... there's a reason attendance and viewership is declining.

There's a lot to like, yes, and I'm a fan (especially of Lena's bangs) but the WTA appears to lurch and stumble along, play favorites, and in general be run more like a group of amateurs than a professional organization these days. The Scott regime did a good job of lining up major sponsors, but otherwise was a disaster. So far, I'm not impressed with the new team.

Jem
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:57 PM
All this fuss about nothing. Where have they broken rules. As TBE clearly pointed out, it's in the rules that they previous Tour Championships will be removed from the rankings prior to the next tour championships. In this case, they shortened the season, so the tour championships get removed one week earlier. They left last year's Quebec tournament on the rankings, so folks will get the benefit of those points for challenger tournament entries for one more week. As for the top players, their season is over after next week, so it really doesn't matter. Plus, there's no rule been "broken."

-Sonic-
Oct 24th, 2009, 04:57 PM
All this fuss about nothing. Where have they broken rules. As TBE clearly pointed out, it's in the rules that they previous Tour Championships will be removed from the rankings prior to the next tour championships. In this case, they shortened the season, so the tour championships get removed one week earlier. They left last year's Quebec tournament on the rankings, so folks will get the benefit of those points for challenger tournament entries for one more week. As for the top players, their season is over after next week, so it really doesn't matter. Plus, there's no rule been "broken."

this sounds fine if thats what it is, i don't have the patience to investigate.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 05:07 PM
All this fuss about nothing. Where have they broken rules. As TBE clearly pointed out, it's in the rules that they previous Tour Championships will be removed from the rankings prior to the next tour championships. In this case, they shortened the season, so the tour championships get removed one week earlier. They left last year's Quebec tournament on the rankings, so folks will get the benefit of those points for challenger tournament entries for one more week. As for the top players, their season is over after next week, so it really doesn't matter. Plus, there's no rule been "broken."

All TBE has pointed out is how YEC participants are determined. And even if what he wrote somehow applied to the rankings it wouldn't change the fact WTA had no right to seed Safina 1st at the YEC.

drake3781
Oct 24th, 2009, 07:52 PM
All TBE has pointed out is how YEC participants are determined. And even if what he wrote somehow applied to the rankings it wouldn't change the fact WTA had no right to seed Safina 1st at the YEC.

I think you should contact WTA. Perhaps it is an oversight. I am more interested in the apparent violation of the "no doubles" rule actually as I think that has greater impact in the future. Will ya check with them on that one too?

Feyd
Oct 24th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Nope, no rules have been broken. You don't follow the rulebook.


Page 5
1. Introduction - C.Rules
The Rules set forth herein may be altered, amended or repealed by the WTA
pursuant to its By-Laws.


See, breaking the rules are also stated in the rules.

drake3781
Oct 24th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Nope, no rules have been broken. You don't follow the rulebook.



See, breaking the rules are also stated in the rules.

That doesn't mean they can break the rules. Only that they can change them. Which we do not see happened.

madmax
Oct 24th, 2009, 08:23 PM
oh crap, someone really can't stand poor Dinara being at the top of the rankings...who cares about these numbers anyways? I thought it was all about titles and wins, and those ranking points usually reflect your win total - the more you win, the better ranking you deserve. And if Vee or Ree or another "established" champion are good enough, why don't they show that and start beating lesser players regularly? Or maybe they're really no longer good enough to dominate, and good old computer simply reflects their achievements by calculating their point total:unsure:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 08:57 PM
oh crap, someone really can't stand poor Dinara being at the top of the rankings...who cares about these numbers anyways? I thought it was all about titles and wins, and those ranking points usually reflect your win total - the more you win, the better ranking you deserve. And if Vee or Ree or another "established" champion are good enough, why don't they show that and start beating lesser players regularly? Or maybe they're really no longer good enough to dominate, and good old computer simply reflects their achievements by calculating their point total:unsure:

Are you infinitely dumb or what?
Serena DID earn more points than Safina over the last 52 weeks. What else does she have to do to please WTA?

Matt01
Oct 24th, 2009, 09:05 PM
Are you infinitely dumb or what?
Serena DID earn more points than Safina over the last 52 weeks. What else does she have to please WTA?


:haha:

Safina DID earn more ranking points than Serena THIS YEAR. #1 will be decided at he YEC. Seriously, what's your problem :rolleyes: :tape:

Oh, and to answer your question: respecting your winning opponents and taking the non-Slams seriously would be a nice start. I won't even comment about the behaviour towards linewomen :tape:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 24th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I think you should contact WTA. Perhaps it is an oversight. I am more interested in the apparent violation of the "no doubles" rule actually as I think that has greater impact in the future. Will ya check with them on that one too?

I see no point in e-mailing corrupt idiots that run the WTA. They clearly made their choice.

Lucemferre
Oct 24th, 2009, 10:07 PM
:haha:

Safina DID earn more ranking points than Serena THIS YEAR. #1 will be decided at he YEC. Seriously, what's your problem :rolleyes: :tape:

Oh, and to answer your question: respecting your winning opponents and taking the non-Slams seriously would be a nice start. I won't even comment about the behaviour towards linewomen :tape:

You are dumb.Since when do rankings count 50 weeks? When it serves to your agenda? :lol:Serena is no1 based on the usual ranking system.
Do you have the same advice for clijsters who is now an even more part time player than Serena? OR is she on your favorites list? :lol:

Golovinjured.
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:04 AM
Wouldn't it just be easier to make a rule saying that seeds @ YEC will be determined by Race rank, not the 52-week rank?

Hurley
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:10 AM
It would be easiest to not really give a shit.

Leo_DFP
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:32 AM
Convoluted rules, convoluted rankings, convoluted Roadmap. The WTA is just a disaster and they have no true #1 anyway.

MBM
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:40 AM
Wouldn't it just be easier to make a rule saying that seeds @ YEC will be determined by Race rank, not the 52-week rank?

yeah it would. especially if a player goes from being #1, to #2 because of losing yec points, and then back to #1 again after defending... coz it wud screw their stats of consecutive weeks at #1.

it's a stupid rule to take 08 points off the week b4 09, as it then screws the usual rule of seeding by the rankings of the week before...

Zweli
Oct 25th, 2009, 02:07 AM
Incompetent Organisation/Association
Serena is capable of making people eat their words when she wants to.
I'd rather have arrogant ,selfish Serena winning Slams than clueless ,useless #1

Dawn Marie
Oct 25th, 2009, 05:45 AM
It is a big deal because if--as it most likely will--it gets out it will just make the WTA look bad again. Like it or not, women's tennis has an image problem and the ongoing mismanagement of the WTA from its wonky (according to many) ratings system to the awful roadmap to its horrible inability to promote its talent ... there's a reason attendance and viewership is declining.

There's a lot to like, yes, and I'm a fan (especially of Lena's bangs) but the WTA appears to lurch and stumble along, play favorites, and in general be run more like a group of amateurs than a professional organization these days. The Scott regime did a good job of lining up major sponsors, but otherwise was a disaster. So far, I'm not impressed with the new team.
agreed.

Dawn Marie
Oct 25th, 2009, 05:48 AM
I still can't believe that people still don't realize that there is cheating in tennis.

Golovinjured.
Oct 25th, 2009, 05:53 AM
I still can't believe that people still don't realize that there is cheating in tennis.

How do you mean? Henin cheating, or cheating in the establishment?

I don't think this is really cheating, being #1 or #2 seed makes no difference at YEC. It is cheating Serena out of a week at #1, but judging by her weeks amassed at number 1 so far that stat doesn't bother her too much.

DOUBLEFIST
Oct 25th, 2009, 08:29 AM
I don't think this is really cheating...

It is cheating Serena out of a week at #1...

:scratch: ...err, ...so, um. ...What? :scratch:

Golovinjured.
Oct 25th, 2009, 09:01 AM
:bigcry:

You took it out of context. :rolleyes:

I'm gonna ask this. Do you, and her other fans, honestly believe the WTA made this decision to strip Serena of #1 for one week? And would this not have happened if Dementieva was #1, and she lost her YEC points and returned to #2? - like has happened with Serena.

It has nothing to do with Serena. It was probably intended to be done this way for quite a while, regardless of who was affected.

Shvedbarilescu
Oct 25th, 2009, 09:39 AM
Much ago about nothing. Is this going to have any effect on the tournament whatsoever? No. In ten years will anyone even care who happened to be seeded number 1 for this event. Absolutely no one aside from maybe AnnaK_4ever and I suspect even he will have got over it by then. This won't even make a difference in terms of how they are seeded, and at the end of the day that is all the ranking system is there for; all it is, is a system to divide the best players so they don't meet in the early rounds. The seriousness with which some posters take it in here is nothing short of ludicrous.

In The Zone
Oct 25th, 2009, 09:44 AM
I don't get why the points have to come off. :shrug: If the point is to get the race to look like the rankings then ... seed Doha by the Race rankings. So what?

I think this would be a major issue if Venus and Serena, the primary losers of this decision, were made more vulnerable to face one another. But since 1 and 4, or 2 and 7 have the same chances, it really does not matter. Well, also if Serena ends up being 1 week behind Graf or even tied with her, we'll look to this moment in time!

It does make the WTA look stupid and I don't even see the reason why the YEC of the year before needs to come before the YEC of the current year. It makes no sense. I don't see the logic. The only argument would be to seed based on ranking but then just seed based on race ranking. :weirdo:

Oh WTA. Just when we thought things would get better with Scott gone!

~Cherry*Blossom~
Oct 25th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Serena always gets screwed by line judges, players and now the WTA.

Congrats WTA :bigclap: :weirdo:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:04 PM
Much ago about nothing. Is this going to have any effect on the tournament whatsoever? No. In ten years will anyone even care who happened to be seeded number 1 for this event. Absolutely no one aside from maybe AnnaK_4ever and I suspect even he will have got over it by then. This won't even make a difference in terms of how they are seeded, and at the end of the day that is all the ranking system is there for; all it is, is a system to divide the best players so they don't meet in the early rounds. The seriousness with which some posters take it in here is nothing short of ludicrous.

Of course it's a non-issue for you since 1) none of the scrubs you support has made it to the YEC, 2) it's an evil Serena who got screwed.
Still, it doesn't mean the WTA should violate their own rules.

Corswandt
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:06 PM
Of course it's a non-issue for you since 1) none of the scrubs you support has made it to the YEC

Teehee.

winchester
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:13 PM
The world doesn't turn around Serena:rolleyes:

Shvedbarilescu
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Of course it's a non-issue for you since 1) none of the scrubs you support has made it to the YEC, 2) it's an evil Serena who got screwed.
Still, it doesn't mean the WTA should violate their own rules.

Fair enough on point one. :lol:

Although to be honest I think it would probably still be a non-issue for me even in the unlikely occurance that one of the "scrubs" I support did make it to YEC as this difference in ranking won't in any way affect which groups the players are drawn in. :p

But regarding the 2nd point I really couldn't care less whether it was Safina or Serena at number one. Serena Williams isn't my favourite player by a long shot but I respect her talent and if she does finish the year at number one good for her.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:18 PM
The world doesn't turn around Serena:rolleyes:

Really??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks for enlightening me.

DragonFlame
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:24 PM
Sorry but you havenīt convinced me with this.

I think it was established at the start of the year already that they would take off yec points 2 weeks early. I agree this is a STUPID decision and should have been done differently, but they definetly did not decide this at the last minute.

Seedings i think should be based on the whole year, so taking the rankings on the monday before the sec starts is in my oppinion a good thing.

I feel like they made a lot of managerial mistakes this year and actually screwed up, but the way you are bringing it isnīt one of them.

winchester
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Really??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks for enlightening me.

No pb, I always dedicate to saving lost causes.

Feyd
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:30 PM
How is Serena screwed when her loss is just 1 week in number 1 in career stats? It is Venus who is screwed.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:33 PM
Sorry but you havenīt convinced me with this.

I think it was established at the start of the year already that they would take off yec points 2 weeks early. I agree this is a STUPID decision and should have been done differently, but they definetly did not decide this at the last minute.

I didn't say they did it at the last minute. I said they did it by violating the rules, that's all.

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 25th, 2009, 12:35 PM
No pb, I always dedicate to saving lost causes.

Gunter Parche, is it you? :unsure:

Bijoux0021
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:47 PM
The world doesn't turn around Serena:rolleyes:
Yes it does. Don't you ever forget it.

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 03:31 PM
They could make it a lot easier.

1. Cancel the race ranks, it's unnecessary these days anyway.

2. Make the points count in a more logical non fixed date way;
example : Miami 1 is in march 2009 and Miami 2 is in april 2010
=> Points get altered after Miami 2 has completed and not in March 2010 (as it would via the 52 week thing).

DragonFlame
Oct 25th, 2009, 04:14 PM
They could make it a lot easier.
2. Make the points count in a more logical non fixed date way;
example : Miami 1 is in march 2009 and Miami 2 is in april 2010
=> Points get altered after Miami 2 has completed and not in March 2010 (as it would via the 52 week thing).

Not possible, tourcalanders change every year. So if a tournament is cancelled or moved from spring to fall the year after, this whole system wouldnīt work at all.

Best would be to just keep rankings to the week they are played in, 52-week system. So not the date but the week.

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 04:19 PM
Not possible, tourcalanders change every year. So if a tournament is cancelled or moved from spring to fall the year after, this whole system wouldnīt work at all.

Best would be to just keep rankings to the week they are played in, 52-week system. So not the date but the week.

It would certainly work.

Tournament points should be only valid until the tournament is held the next season and not for a standard 52 weeks.

DragonFlame
Oct 25th, 2009, 04:23 PM
It would certainly work.

Tournament points should be only valid until the tournament is held the next season and not for a standard 52 weeks.

Then what about tournaments that get cancelled or moved? Some tournament results would count for 1 1/2 year while others could only last for 8 months? That's just unfair and illogical. :o

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 04:58 PM
Then what about tournaments that get cancelled or moved? Some tournament results would count for 1 1/2 year while others could only last for 8 months? That's just unfair and illogical. :o

The system I'm defending is the most rational there is.

1. You play a tourney, and you keep the points till the next season's edition of the tournament.

2. If a tournaments is cancelled you'll keep the points till original date + 1 year so 15/10/2009 till 15/10/2010.

3. If a tournament is moved, you can keep the points untill the next edition of the tournament.

--- And I highly doubt the WTA will move tournaments with 6 months of something, on a frequent base.

DragonFlame
Oct 25th, 2009, 06:31 PM
The system I'm defending is the most rational there is.

1. You play a tourney, and you keep the points till the next season's edition of the tournament.

2. If a tournaments is cancelled you'll keep the points till original date + 1 year so 15/10/2009 till 15/10/2010.

3. If a tournament is moved, you can keep the points untill the next edition of the tournament.

--- And I highly doubt the WTA will move tournaments with 6 months of something, on a frequent base.

It isnīt rational at all, thatīs an unfair and illogical system youīre suggesting. You NEED 1 cutoff point that counts for ALL tournaments. No one with any sense would apply what youīre saying, some people would be able to keep their points longer then others and it gives a lot of hassle. It would be a total ranking screw up because some player could be ranked much higher because of a result more then 12 months ago.
Moving tournaments with 6 months isnīt all that rare. Look at stuttgart or tokio. Besides this, tournaments get upgraded and downgraded all the time. What if someone wins a tier1 at the start of the year and the tournament gets moved to the end of the year and downgraded to tier2. The players would have tier1 points in their ranking for 18 months that cannot even be defended. :help:
Sorry but the system youīre suggesting just doesnīt work and would never be implemented. :o

What they should do is tie the tournament to the weeknumber of the year its in, not the date itīs in, so the players keep their points exactly 52 weeks. Thatīs a correct statistical system.

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 06:40 PM
It is rational, you just completely fail to understand it. And btw that weeknumber thing is also something I proposed, but it wouldn't work either.

Matt01
Oct 25th, 2009, 06:48 PM
How is Serena screwed when her loss is just 1 week in number 1 in career stats? It is Venus who is screwed.


It's been already a tremendously funny thread but this is the best :haha:

DragonFlame
Oct 25th, 2009, 06:50 PM
It is rational, you just completely fail to understand it.


Explain to me how it's rational if some tournamentpoints will stay on the ranking longer then other tournamentpoints? Sorry, but it just isn't. :p

Besides this, the examples i gave you cause for many unnessesary problems why your suggestion would never work.

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:06 PM
Explain to me how it's rational if some tournamentpoints will stay on the ranking longer then other tournamentpoints? Sorry, but it just isn't. :p

Besides this, the examples i gave you cause for many unnessesary problems why your suggestion would never work.

Sweetie, just think about the following questions:

1. How many times were tournaments moved in the last 10 years?
2. How many of these tournaments were moved more than 2 week?

-jenks-
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:38 PM
Aren't the seedings based on the race ranking? Safina is still No. 1 in that the week before YEC

Dodoboy.
Oct 25th, 2009, 07:47 PM
I'm sorry but this isn't simply a WTA v Serena type situation. The same thread would have been made if it was ANY other player.

Quite puzzling that this is allowed to happen!

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 25th, 2009, 09:09 PM
If the WTA just followed their rules we'd never get such retarded grouping at the YEC.

youizahoe
Oct 25th, 2009, 09:47 PM
Where's the time where they just split even and uneven for the yec groups :sobbing: