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Andreas
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:48 PM
What happened :weirdo: Who retires being up with that score?

iGOAT
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Congrats Anne :).

Woz :confused: strangest time to retire ever :tape:?

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Like I said a few days ago:

IMO Luxembourg is one tournament too many. It's a long-ass flight to Luxembourg and then another long-ass flight to Doha. Not smart.




Now she's injured. Right before DOHA. Dumb.

saul1333
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:50 PM
:scratch: Who retires up 5-0?

She must have really been hurt.

Justin SW
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:50 PM
LMAO :lol:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
after bad sportsmanship of having an injury timeout when down break point, I feel that Caro just performed a great, valliant act of superwomanship! She doesn't want to be injured going into Doha, so would have probably pulled out of her next round, so she pretty much gave Kremer the spot in the next round (nice little gift), but treated the crowd to a match all the same. She could have finished that match, but didn't want to take up a place in the next round and then not play it.

Kudos to Caro :yeah:

Slutiana
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
What happened?

Kai
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
poor Caro :sad: :hug:
Good luck in 2nd round Anne ;) :yeah:

Justin SW
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
:scratch: Who retires up 5-0?

She must have really been hurt.

No she just didnt want to play ...

^bibi^
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
well she obviously seriously injured herself otherwise wouldn't have retired then :shrug:

Anyone knows what happened ?

Uranus
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
Huh?

Good to see Anne in a WTA 2nd round though.

Michael!
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
:cuckoo:

VIKA?
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
She obviously want to rest before going to Doha, I think it's the best decision. But she should have retired before:lol:

Caro:hug:

darkangel23
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
WTH???!!!! What happened??????

Caro :eek:

saul1333
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
No she just didnt want to play ...

She needed 1 more game:shrug:

is1531
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Dumb.

She has indeed become an idiot. How can you quit at 5-0 in the 3rd set with a pull. You stay and fight, especially since she was not serving the next game. I just lost all feelings for her as one of my favs. She's is off my list. I am down to Sharapova and Lisicki only. Bye Caroline!

iGOAT
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
That is nice of her to let Anne play in the second round. Now Anne is a lucky loser x2 :haha:.

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
What happened :weirdo: Who retires being up with that score?
At least this way the healthy player goes on to the next round.

What kind of injury is it?

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Any poles about who happened to watch the match?

In the ******* forum someone said that her father told her to call the trainer again at 5-0 and retire :help: That was when she called him during the 2nd set at 2-0 or 3-0, don't remember the score

That was a lucky guess by the ******* user. Or did he really seriously, say just that? Can't believe that anyone would seriously say that, especially if you got microphones on....

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:53 PM
She needed 1 more game:shrug:

But does it matter? Yes, she could've probably closed out this match, risking further injury, but she would have had to retire next match anyway. Now she gives Kremer a chance to continue instead. Was a nice thing to do for Kremer instead of just eliminating her. Good sportsmanship from Caroline.

allrounder
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
She had a problem with her thigh and was limping quite bad near the end and was serving at like quarter pace because her injury couldn't allow her to put any weight into her serve. Not sure how she'l be for Doha though but she's unlikely to 100%

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Good decision from her. How nice of her to let Anne continue on knowing that she would withdraw from the tournament and that this was Anne's home country. :worship:

Her right leg, maybe left, was heavely taped and she couldn't even push off on the serve. She had no knee bend and was pretty much just sitting up straight and slicing it in. Kind of like Serena did in the 04 YEC finals. I'm not the best lip reader but I think I got out when she was talking to the trainer that she said "Oh my god, it's just so painful. I can't even move." Hopefully she'll be rested and ready to play at Doha.Please revise your schedule nxt year Caro!

is1531
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
No she just didnt want to play ...

Agreed

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
i felt that caro didn't want to get to the nextround and then withdraw from the tourney. so she let kremer go through so it wouldn't be a wasted spot. nice thing to do IMO (if I'm right!)

saul1333
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:54 PM
But does it matter? Yes, she could've probably closed out this match, risking further injury, but she would have had to retire next match anyway. Now she gives Kremer a chance to continue instead.



That's why I'm saying it must have been a real injury :p

Kovalchuk
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:55 PM
Wozniacki must try verd hard to lose but failed :lol:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:55 PM
But does it matter? Yes, she could've probably closed out this match, risking further injury, but she would have had to retire next match anyway. Now she gives Kremer a chance to continue instead. Was a nice thing to do for Kremer instead of just eliminating her. Good sportsmanship from Caroline.

Good decision from her. How nice of her to let Anne continue on knowing that she would withdraw from the tournament and that this was Anne's home country. :worship:

Her right leg, maybe left, was heavely taped and she couldn't even push off on the serve. She had no knee bend and was pretty much just sitting up stright and slicing it in. Kind of like Serena did in the 04 YEC finals. I'm not the best lip reader but I think I got out when shewas talking to the trainer that shesaid "Oh my god, it's just so painful. I can't even move." Hopefully she'll be rested and ready to play at Doha.Please revise your schedule nxt year Caro!

I'm with you guys. This was a gift from Caro to Anne. :)

Plus, the crowd got a match as well (a moonballing marathon at times, but it was a match!)

darkangel23
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:55 PM
I mean why playing Osaka and Luxembourg?! Luxembourg would've been enough...

itzhak
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:55 PM
She couldn't move in the last game. Everybody knew that she is hurting badly. she could win but she would retire after the match, so her desicion was obvious...

CrossCourt~Rally
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:55 PM
Caro :hug: I hope her injury doesn't keep her from playing Doha:sad:.

A bit of luck for the hometown girl Anne Kremer ;). 30 pts will help lift her ranking quite a bit :bounce:.


Anna or Kata will make the QTRs :eek::bounce:

roelc
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:56 PM
i don't think she was obliged to play here? if so, it's a nice way to say F*CK YOU WTA!
but quitting with this score looks more like serious injury
(although before i was quite sure caro would lose R1 or R2, just because of doha...)

Slutiana
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:56 PM
She has indeed become an idiot. How can you quit at 5-0 in the 3rd set with a pull. You stay and fight, especially since she was not serving the next game. I just lost all feelings for her as one of my favs. She's is off my list. I am down to Sharapova and Lisicki only. Bye Caroline!

:yeah:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:57 PM
She has indeed become an idiot. How can you quit at 5-0 in the 3rd set with a pull. You stay and fight, especially since she was not serving the next game. I just lost all feelings for her as one of my favs. She's is off my list. I am down to Sharapova and Lisicki only. Bye Caroline!

Oh no! Anyone but you!!!! :rolleyes:

Edinboro
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:58 PM
Oh dear. If she was in so much pain, how did she get to 5-0?

CrossCourt~Rally
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:59 PM
i felt that caro didn't want to get to the nextround and then withdraw from the tourney. so she let kremer go through so it wouldn't be a wasted spot. nice thing to do IMO (if I'm right!)

If this is the case then that's very good sportsmanship from Caro :cool:

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 06:59 PM
Any poles about who happened to watch the match?

In the ******* chat someone said that her father told her to call the trainer again at 5-0 and retire :help: That was when she called him during the 2nd set at 2-0 or 3-0, don't remember the score

That was a lucky guess by the ******* user. Or did he really seriously, say just that? Can't believe that anyone would seriously say that, especially if you got microphones on....

So did anyone else hear this?

spiceboy
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:01 PM
Caro got a new fan today :worship:

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:01 PM
She has indeed become an idiot. How can you quit at 5-0 in the 3rd set with a pull. You stay and fight, especially since she was not serving the next game. I just lost all feelings for her as one of my favs. She's is off my list. I am down to Sharapova and Lisicki only. Bye Caroline!

No, you missed my point. I didn't think it was "dumb" for her to retire.

I thought it was dumb that she played Luxembourg in the first place.


The reason she was retiring at 5-0 was because she knew she was too injured to continue in the tournament so she rather let Kremer continue instead of eliminating her. It was a gift from Caroline to Anne. Caroline's main priority right now is obviously getting ready for DOHA but I still think it was a dumb decision to play this tournament. Now her DOHA performance might be in jeopardy.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:02 PM
Thats what happens when you try to play every tournament possible.

Broseghini
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:03 PM

FFS
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Caroline couldn't not even walk in the last game.
it's a bad injury. Her schedule has been crazy. she'll play doha but one week, with that kind of injury, isn't enough to be 100%

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:05 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

is1531
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Oh dear. If she was in so much pain, how did she get to 5-0?

The trainer must have put on around 8 bandaids before she rapped her leg. I guess Caroline had a sticky tight leg from so many bandaids. It probably tightened up the wrap, the same way Zvonerreva was going crazy at the US Open when her wrap was too tight, only Vera started ripping it off,lol.

moby
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:06 PM
This is BS. My post was removed for what was obviously a stupid reason. :help:

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:07 PM
As a fan of Anne, I'm really glad that Caroline decided to give her a chance to play in the next round rather than withdraw from her next match. Better that the tournament gets another match especially with their home player :)

Get well and rest up Caroline, never should have played here anyway :o

Noctis
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:07 PM
:haha:

Feyd
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:08 PM
Oh dear. If she was in so much pain, how did she get to 5-0?

Because Kremer was playing just horrible in the second set. Caroline was just pushing the ball and Kremer was either netting or hitting it wide.

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:08 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

I'm sure Caroline intended to finish the tournament before she got injured :rolleyes:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:08 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

i'm guessing she didn't anticipate getting injured tho. and under the circumastances/in the moment, it was a nice thing to do for Anne.

we'll say that it was not such a nice thing (entering the tournament) for Rezai, who would have made the main draw directly...and for whoever was next to enter qualies!! But Aravane got to the main draw anyway and lost first round ;)

EDIT: OO, my 2000th post, yay!

Matt01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:09 PM
Thats what happens when you try to play every tournament possible.


Sometimes even you have a point.

is1531
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Caroline couldn't not even walk in the last game.
it's a bad injury. Her schedule has been crazy. she'll play doha but one week, with that kind of injury, isn't enough to be 100%

Did you see the fall she took at Family Circle when she beat Dementieva. That was an awful fall and could have destroyed her career, but she played on with that terrible fall. Here she could not play one more game, yet she ran around all through the other games after the so called injury. Every injury does not cause you too retire. I will not let her sucker me.

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:10 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

Well unfortunately a lot of players try to play through injury, and we don't know the severity of Caroline's injury coming into the match. Obviously she must have thought that she could play with the injury and as the match progressed, realized it was getting worse to a point that was not advisable to carry on.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:10 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

It's not like she went in this way :rolleyes: The injury wore on over the course of the match. If you would have watched the match instead of making childish assumptions that she knew she was gonna withdraw then maybe your post would be valid. Luxembourg was really a breakthrough for her last year even though she lost. It's an important tournament to her, that's why she itended to play it.

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:11 PM
i'm guessing she didn't anticipate getting injured tho. and under the circumastances/in the moment, it was a nice thing to do for Anne.

we'll say that it was such a nice thing (entering the tournament) for Rezai, who would have made the main draw directly...ad for whoever was next to enter qualies!! But Aravane got to the main draw anyway and lost first round ;)

she was never going to complete this tournament like bartoli never intends to finish a tournament the week before a slam. why not have more respect for the tournament and pull out instead of turning up to pocket the appearence fee.

its very nieve if you think what shes just done is selfless.

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Even I said she shouldn't play Luxembourg.

Dawson.
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Nice act of Caro, even though she shouldn't have even played in the first place :lol: Hope she's OK for YEC :hug:

I'm just pissed that Laura didn't sign up for Lucky Loser, because this would/could have been her :(

Temperenka
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Not sure what I think about this yet.

Get better before Doha though.

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:13 PM
she was never going to complete this tournament like bartoli never intends to finish a tournament the week before a slam. why not have more respect for the tournament and pull out instead of turning up to pocket the appearence fee.

its very nieve if you think what shes just done is selfless.

Caroline won Eastbourne the week before US Open where she made the final. So obviously Caroline is not like Bartoli. Your point is moot.


Caroline didn't start this match injured.

~{X}~
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Oh Caro, rest up for Doha next week please, hopefully it isn't anything too serious.

Clijsters, storm to the title! :D

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Did you see the fall she took at Family Circle when she beat Dementieva. That was an awful fall and could have destroyed her career, but she played on with that terrible fall. Here she could not play one more game, yet she ran around all through the other games after the so called injury. Every injury does not cause you too retire. I will not let her sucker me.

As terrible as the fall may have been she simply brushed herself off an continued playing. She wasn't injured or anything. This as a clear injury throughout the course of the match, with the week before one of the biggest tournaments of her career. The Family Circle Cup is like a month and a half before the French, so she had no reason to retire then.

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Did you see the fall she took at Family Circle when she beat Dementieva. That was an awful fall and could have destroyed her career, but she played on with that terrible fall. Here she could not play one more game, yet she ran around all through the other games after the so called injury. Every injury does not cause you too retire. I will not let her sucker me.

Obviously you're missing the point. Whether she could finish 1 more game was irrelevant. The point was that even if she were to close out the match, she was going to have to withdraw from the tournament because the injury had become too painful. If she realized this late in the match, why not give Kremer a chance to play on rather than give someone a walkover?

Slutiana
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Did you see the fall she took at Family Circle when she beat Dementieva. That was an awful fall and could have destroyed her career, but she played on with that terrible fall. Here she could not play one more game, yet she ran around all through the other games after the so called injury. Every injury does not cause you too retire. I will not let her sucker me.
:tape: The amount of injuries that have "almost ruined her career" this year. :tape:
Even I said she shouldn't play Luxembourg.

Congrats. :wavey:

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Caro :awww::hug:

Good for Anne progressing through her home tournament :yeah:

She has indeed become an idiot. How can you quit at 5-0 in the 3rd set with a pull. You stay and fight, especially since she was not serving the next game. I just lost all feelings for her as one of my favs. She's is off my list. I am down to Sharapova and Lisicki only. Bye Caroline!

Yes finally :bounce: goodbye :bigwave:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
she was never going to complete this tournament like bartoli never intends to finish a tournament the week before a slam. why not have more respect for the tournament and pull out instead of turning up to pocket the appearence fee.

its very nieve if you think what shes just done is selfless.

DO you preview your posts before you read them? You really should just let the words sink in :help:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
she was never going to complete this tournament like bartoli never intends to finish a tournament the week before a slam. why not have more respect for the tournament and pull out instead of turning up to pocket the appearence fee.

its very nieve if you think what shes just done is selfless.

you can only speculate tho. i almost agree (that is was never realistic for her to play the whole tourney) but just say she flew through her matches in 6-0/6-1/6-2 sets the whole way, 45 minutes a go. i'm sure she would have gone right through to face kim and then who knows what would have happened

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Here is what he is claiming her dad told her

Anyhow, Wozniacki talked to her father at 7:5, 3:0

He literally said: "At 5-0 up ask for the trainer once again and quit, you're not gonna play next match anyway so let them have some joy".

Posted on betf@ir betting forum .

Dad must have made few millions just like that from his cell phone .

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Caroline won Charleston the week before US Open where she made the final. So obviously Caroline is not Bartoli. Your point is moot.


Caroline didn't start this match injured.

charleston is after miami :help:

if you can read i compared this to what bartoli does, not said caro pulls out of tournaments the week before slams. you know as well as i do she turned up here for the appearence fee, she was never going to finish this tournament.

bavaria86
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:18 PM
:eek::eek:

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:20 PM
charleston is after miami :help:

if you can read i compared this to what bartoli does, not said caro pulls out of tournaments the week before slams. you know as well as i do she turned up here for the appearence fee, she was never going to finish this tournament.

Not Charleston. Eastbourne.

Use your brain.


The fact that Caroline won Eastbourne a week before Wimbledon and New Haven a week before US Open disproves your point.


Caroline was going to finish this tournament until she got injured.

Drimal
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:20 PM
I think it's a wonderful act from Caroline to let Anne play in the second round of her home tournament. :hatoff:

Good luck Anne in second round. :)

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:21 PM
DO you preview your posts before you read them? You really should just let the words sink in :help:

as apposed to this great post you've just made :tape:

prove me wrong if you are so sure im wrong.

Feyd
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:21 PM
she was never going to complete this tournament like bartoli never intends to finish a tournament the week before a slam. why not have more respect for the tournament and pull out instead of turning up to pocket the appearence fee.

its very nieve if you think what shes just done is selfless.

She won New Haven twice right before US Open and Eastbourne right before Wimbledon. Actually playing before a major tournament is her thing.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:24 PM
She won New Haven twice right before US Open and Eastbourne right before Wimbledon. Actually playing before a major tournament is her thing.

sammy was comparing:
- Caro entering tourneys without the intention to see it through
to
- Cake entering tourneys the week b4 slams without the intention to see it through

There was no mention of Caro entering tourneys the week b4 slams, just of entering tourneys in general

Miss Atomic Bomb
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:24 PM
wow :tape: :help:

Ferg
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:25 PM
wtf :eek:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:25 PM
as apposed to this great post you've just made :tape:

prove me wrong if you are so sure im wrong.

Why thank you. :)

And stop bringing Bartoli in this. Just because Anna is her bitch doesn't mean you have to come in here and try to rip her to shreads too.

And prove you wrong on what? Just let me know, and I guarantee the job will get done. :)

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:25 PM
The "proof" is in the fact that Wozniacki has on many occasions, played the week prior to major events, and in fact won them...She is not known for tanking matches for appearances fees, so suggest such a thing is an unfounded argument, and an assumption based on no facts. :rolleyes:

delicatecutter
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:26 PM
Not surprising.

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:26 PM
as apposed to this great post you've just made :tape:

prove me wrong if you are so sure im wrong.

What? we don't need to prove anything :lol: You are the one making the accusation you prove she showed up for the appearence fee

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:26 PM
wow :tape: :help:

So literally what he is saying dad told her at 3-0 that she should retire when score goes 5-0 , so he can place money against her , $100 would return you $10,000 betting against his daughter ... ( $1,000 would net you sweet $100,000 )
This could be fun when video of the match is sent to WTA ... :eek:

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:26 PM
The "proof" is in the fact that Wozniacki has on many occasions, played the week prior to major events, and in fact won them...She is not known for tanking matches for appearances fees, so suggest such a thing is an unfounded argument, and an assumption based on no facts. :rolleyes:

Exactly. Thank you.


I shall now leave this discussion as it's getting out of hand.

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:26 PM
Not Charleston. Eastbourne.

Use your brain.


The fact that Caroline won Eastbourne a week before US Open disproves your point.


Caroline was going to finish this tournament until she got injured.

well thats your oppinion mine is she was never going to finish this tournament, you have no more proof than i do, only i have caro retiring at 7-5 5-0 up in the 1st round.

p.s eastbourne isnt before the us open either lol

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:27 PM
well thats your oppinion mine is she was never going to finish this tournament, you have no more proof than i do, only i have caro retiring at 7-5 5-0 up in the 1st round.

p.s eastbourne isnt before the us open either lol

I said Wimbledon. Read my post again.


And then she won New Haven right before US Open.


So that's two recent examples to disprove your point.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:27 PM
So literally what he is saying dad told her at 3-0 that she should retire when score goes 5-0 , so he can place money against her , $100 would return you $10,000 betting against his daughter ...
This could be find when video of the match is sent to WTA ... :eek:

I really hope they do shed some light on this :speakles: So she is not just killing tennis with her boring game-style she is also killing it with this type of behaviour :help:

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Any poles about who happened to watch the match?

In the ******* forum someone said that her father told her to call the trainer again at 5-0 and retire :help: That was when she called him during the 2nd set at 2-0 or 3-0, don't remember the score

That was a lucky guess by the ******* user. Or did he really seriously, say just that? Can't believe that anyone would seriously say that, especially if you got microphones on....

In response to my own post:

from krystian on the Danish Delight Vol.3 thread on tennisforum

At the break between games (3-0), Dad (Piotr) said to Caroline "at 5-0 you have to retire, because even if you win, you won't play next round" (I'm from Poland and he really said it), to not risk about Doha. By the way it was nice gesture for the supporters from Luxembourg, because thanks to what Caroline did, they still can support Kremer in the next round. You can trust me, it's not serious, her injury here was pretended.

Could he or she face any consequences for something like this?

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:28 PM
What? we don't need to prove anything :lol: You are the one making the accusation you prove she showed up for the appearence fee

7-5, 5-0 ret 1st round.

you can bet your bottom dollar she will be at doha.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:29 PM
In response to my own post:

from krystian on the Danish Delight Vol.3 thread on tennisforum



Could he or she face any consequences for something like this?

Consequences for what? There is no proof.

Aaric
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
But is he really injured?
I dont think so, I just think she wanted to retire to have some rest before Doha :shrug:

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:30 PM
7-5, 5-0 ret 1st round.

you can bet your bottom dollar she will be at doha.

Sure she will - She'll have had a full week's rest to try and heal the injury that she further sustained in her match today.

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
I said Wimbledon. Read my post again.


And then she won New Haven right before US Open.


So that's two recent examples to disprove your point.


lol nice back tracking but i quoted you see post 78 and you said eastbourne before the us open.

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
can be found on betf@ir tennis forum section guy told it when score was still 3-0 as well ...

Piotr Wozniacki told her daughter to retire!


I'm being serious now...

He said:

"When leading 5:0, call the trainer once again and retire, let THEM have some joy"

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
well, the match was televised, wasn't it? So there is at least proof for him saying it, if he did...

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM
In response to my own post:

from krystian on the Danish Delight Vol.3 thread on tennisforum



Could he or she face any consequences for something like this?

For being a good sport toward Anne and letting her continue instead of eliminating her and then retiring from the tournament with injury?

That just doesn't make sense.


Anyway, I'm out. Keep blabbering folks.

Shinjiro
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Nice move.

Caipirinha Guy
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:32 PM
I can confirm what this guy said.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:32 PM
7-5, 5-0 ret 1st round.

you can bet your bottom dollar she will be at doha.

Of course she will be. Do you expect her to withdraw? It's almost on the level of a grand slam and the most elite players this year are playing. In this situation where there are major points on the line and it's the last tournament of the year, you will push yourself to your limit unless it is a serious career threatenng injury. And her withdrawal will make Chak the 60th alternate :drool: So I guess you need something to hope for.

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:34 PM
So literally what he is saying dad told her at 3-0 that she should retire when score goes 5-0 , so he can place money against her , $100 would return you $10,000 betting against his daughter ... ( $1,000 would net you sweet $100,000 )
This could be fun when video of the match is sent to WTA ... :eek:
Not just him, any bettor who was watching in real time...

If the accounts are accurate, it does raise some interesting issues re on court coaching and gambling. What happens when the court mic picks up a coach telling his player to retire at x point in the match and bettors hear that?

Randy H
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:34 PM
In response to my own post:

from krystian on the Danish Delight Vol.3 thread on tennisforum



Could he or she face any consequences for something like this?

That is the case for most injuries, is it not? Otherwise everyone would be out for months at a time.

If your injury is at a point where you know playing on will only make it worse without getting proper rest, then you should not risk it...That seems pretty logical to me. Obviously she thought it was going to be fine, she played this match and it got worse, so she pulled out.

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:34 PM
I'm not blaming her or anything, it was the correct choice (though she should've eventually retired earlier..I mean why tell her to retire at 5-0 instead of right then at 3-0?). Just thought planning a retirement that well in advance and spouting it into a microphone would be against some ITF or WTA code

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM
lol nice back tracking but i quoted you see post 78 and you said eastbourne before the us open.

and the:

Last edited by kman : Today at 08:28 PM

kinda gives it away... lolz

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM
Of course she will be. Do you expect her to withdraw? It's almost on the level of a grand slam and the most elite players this year are playing. In this situation where there are major points on the line and it's the last tournament of the year, you will push yourself to your limit unless it is a serious career threatenng injury. And her withdrawal will make Chak the 60th alternate :drool: So I guess you need something to hope for.

:worship: bash chak that makes you seem so mature :help:

young_gunner913
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM
wow :speakles: hopefully they will do a full investigation to get to the bottom of this.

Elldee
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:36 PM
I imagine Oudin could've won by this scoreline. Oh well.

KournikovaFan91
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM
A full investigation on some hearsay. Like we need some more witnesses before an investigation would be required.

Mightymirza
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:38 PM
Yeah it did look like that.. :tape: I was watching it.. :shrug:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:38 PM
:worship: bash chak that makes you seem so mature :help:

Actually I have nothing against her, it's fools like you who are just looking for trouble. And what do you think the posts you have made in this thread makes you? Mature?:lol:

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:38 PM
For being a good sport toward Anne and letting her continue instead of eliminating her and then retiring from the tournament with injury?

That just doesn't make sense.
Because you can't have coaches announcing when their player is going to retire to the viewing and betting public. :help:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:38 PM
I'm not blaming her or anything, it was the correct choice (though she should've eventually retired earlier..I mean why tell her to retire at 5-0 instead of right then at 3-0?). Just thought planning a retirement that well in advance and spouting it into a microphone would be against some ITF or WTA code

actually I was thinking something similar...

When the whole Davydenko/Betting/match fixing hooplah was happening, before there was any talk of the Davydenko's match being fixed, Davydenko was penalised by the chair umpire for "not trying"... surely this is also the same thing??? Caro made a decision to not win the match (unless she passed it off as something else) and therefore was not trying to win the match. If ATP/WTA rules on this are similar, she could get in trouble for doing exactly what sammy is angry at her for...

Justin SW
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
I can confirm what this guy said.

...

olivero
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
interesting if it really turned out to be true. however you don't have ANY real proof. just some anonimous guy's words.

edit after MartinUla:
Oh...
maybe he meant the crowd or Kremer's team? :unsure:

Yorker
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
caro might be in deep shit if that other thread is true about her father telling her to retire.

Justin SW
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
wow :speakles: hopefully they will do a full investigation to get to the bottom of this.

That could help Serena :shrug:

WowWow
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:40 PM
WOW...and to think they banned twitting to prevent these things.:rolleyes:

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:40 PM
7-5, 5-0 ret 1st round.

you can bet your bottom dollar she will be at doha.

Proves nothing :shrug:

I remember Sharapova won a match I think in Montreal than she withdrew from the tournament 30 minutes after the match.

Andreas
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Lol, them must mean the home crowd :lol:
Talk about a storm in a tea cup.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:40 PM
caro might be in deep shit if that other thread is true about her father telling her to retire.

oooooo bloody hell!!!! drama drama drama!!!!

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:42 PM
oooooo bloody hell!!!! drama drama drama!!!!

Just way too over-hyped. :o

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Lol, them must mean the home crowd :lol:
Talk about a storm in a tea cup.

Very interesting , if she can play 2 more game from 3-0 up why not 6 ? Don't think this is a great argument . Some people have lost serious money on it and some might be set for 10 years life off those 10 minutes of play winnings...

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Them did most probably mean the crowd, yeah. Fully agree on that.

And not THEM them

Celest
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
So literally what he is saying dad told her at 3-0 that she should retire when score goes 5-0 , so he can place money against her , $100 would return you $10,000 betting against his daughter ... ( $1,000 would net you sweet $100,000 )
This could be fun when video of the match is sent to WTA ... :eek:

Some more suspicious ATP/WTA tennis players have done so in a more illicit way before, but I doubt it's the case this time.

Piotr generally means what he says, what's wrong is everything that follows. Complete tournament tanking goes on all the time, retiring up a set for no apparent reason happens, but most aren't explicity told what's going to happen 10 minutes before it happens...

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Actually I have nothing against her, it's fools like you who are just looking for trouble. And what do you think the posts you have made in this thread makes you? Mature?:lol:

they show i have an oppinion and having a poster like you attacking me and chak for it wont stop me having that oppinion, it will only make you look stupid.

rcirani
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:44 PM
Come on. If she was going to do that it wouldn't be at 7-5 5-0, would it? She'd have retired at the end of the first set. Anything else is completely illogical.

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:44 PM
WOW...and to think they banned twitting to prevent these things.:rolleyes:
Yes... the good news is that this might help put an end to on-court coaching. I wonder if anyone watching in real time made money based on this. :help:

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Proves nothing :shrug:

I remember Sharapova won a match I think in Montreal than she withdrew from the tournament 30 minutes after the match.

and then missed like 7 months through injury lol, great point you made :help:

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:45 PM
You get the point right ... HE SAYS THIS AT 3-0 up ... so he is fully expecting her to win 2 more games but she cant add 1 more to this ? This could get very funny if indeed confirmed ...

cellophane
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:46 PM
That could help Serena :shrug:

:weirdo:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:46 PM
wtf why are people saying it was nice of her, it would have been nice had she not tournament whored in the 1st place and let someone who intended to finish the tournament start it in the 1st place.

shes not nice, shes a dumb fool.

Perfect example of how you attacked our opinions and attacked Caro. But you're mature. :worship:

WowWow
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:47 PM
Yes... the good news is that this might help put an end to on-court coaching. I wonder if anyone watching in real time made money based on this. :help:

Oh no...I wanna hear Michael Joyce bitching about Sharpie's opponents:drool::lol:

JackFrost
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:48 PM
But does it matter? Yes, she could've probably closed out this match, risking further injury, but she would have had to retire next match anyway. Now she gives Kremer a chance to continue instead. Was a nice thing to do for Kremer instead of just eliminating her. Good sportsmanship from Caroline.
Ok, fine. But then why playing until 7:5 5:0 ?
Why not give Kremer the match at, dont know, 5:5 in the first set?

fouc
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:48 PM
I can confirm what this guy said.

oh.my.god.
are u suggesting that she entered Luxemburg only to perform THIS on purpose?!?!?! and twitter was banned??

:eek:

Martin, could you write in polish what Piotr Wozniacki had told her then?

:eek:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:49 PM
Just way too over-hyped. :o

yeah I know! ;) :bounce:

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Ok, fine. But then why playing until 7:5 5:0 ?
Why not give Kremer the match at, dont know, 5:5 in the first set?

That's the problem, half the people in here didn't even watch the match. She was not hurt to the point where she couldn't play until about 2/3 games into the second set.

Jose.
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:50 PM
I like Carol a lot :) But, who retires leading 7-5 5-0. It's just insane :o
I mean only one game left. Even if she had injured herself severally she would atleast try to win 4 points :shrug:

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Perfect example of how you attacked our opinions and attacked Caro. But you're mature. :worship:

i said WTF why are people saying it was nice of her, thats a question, i didn't say you were wrong i was saying you are going to have to explain that to me as its screwed logic.

and she is dumb and a fool for playing luxembourg in the 1st place, let alone pulling this stunt.

fouc
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Ok, fine. But then why playing until 7:5 5:0 ?
Why not give Kremer the match at, dont know, 5:5 in the first set?

I guess, some suggest that she deliberately waited until 5-0 when bets for Kremer to win the match were extremely low, like 1:150 and then retire :tape:

As her father told her when she was 3-0 up to wait until 5-0, call the trainer again, and retire. :help:

But right now I refuse to believe it.

Yorker
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:53 PM
That's the problem, half the people in here didn't even watch the match. She was not hurt to the point where she couldn't play until about 2/3 games into the second set.

so what ur sayin is she started feeling the pain at 2-0 or 3-0 in the second but decided to continue on to give the crowd a match and also make kremer feel somehow better about herself losing 5-0 to a gimp. you guys think kremer would be glad to win that way? i'm sorry bit if this is true what your saying, there was 0% reason for her to continue and risk further injury to miss out on doha.

Drimal
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:54 PM
This getting more and more strange. :eek:

The 2nd set was pretty tight between 3:0 and 5:0

In the 4th game of 2nd set Anne was leading 30:0 on her serve and in the 5th game Anne even had a BP and it went to deuce several times.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:55 PM
i said WTF why are people saying it was nice of her, thats a question, i didn't say you were wrong i was saying you are going to have to explain that to me as its screwed logic.

and she is dumb and a fool for playing luxembourg in the 1st place, let alone pulling this stunt.

We've been trying to explain to you and you've still been attacking our views. Let's make a deal you ignore me and I'll ignore you. :wavey:

Caipirinha Guy
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Coś w stylu: Jak będzie 5-0 to proś trainera jeszcze raz i kreczuj - i tak nie zagrasz następnej rundy więc daj im trochę radochy.

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:56 PM
They should ban her for at least a year, if they have video/audio of her father telling her that. She cant claim innocence in all this, proven betting scandal/patterns or not. No athlete quits on the request of her/his coach so close to victory.

Vanity Bonfire
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:56 PM
Why would it make the crowd happy? They just have to see Kremer have the shit kicked out of her in the next rounds.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:56 PM
We've been trying to explain to you and you've still been attacking our views. Let's make a deal you ignore me and I'll ignore you. :wavey:

oo believe me, you can't ignore sammy!! :drool:

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:56 PM
We've been trying to explain to you and you've still been attacking our views. Let's make a deal you ignore me and I'll ignore you. :wavey:

oh i see must have missed you explaining it when you were taking the piss out of chak, forgive my confussion

Nikkiri
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:57 PM
Strange.. hopefully its not serious but if it is she only has herself to blame. Why she was even playing here is beyond me.

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:57 PM
and then missed like 7 months through injury lol, great point you made :help:

I don't know why would someone who has made $2,069,825 in prize money this season alone play a tournament only for appearance money.

Claiming she only showed up for few thousand dollars she wouldn't even notice is seriously flawed

sammy01
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:59 PM
oo believe me, you can't ignore sammy!! :drool:

:worship: im not going to change my oppinion because caro fans dont wanna read it, or resort to bashing chak.

TheAllan
Oct 20th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Be careful with the potentially libellous statements unless you are very well-versed in defamation law or have solid proof. But of course this once again goes to show that on-court coaching is a seriously bad idea.

olivero
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Coś w stylu: Jak będzie 5-0 to proś trainera jeszcze raz i kreczuj - i tak nie zagrasz następnej rundy więc daj im trochę radochy.

which could mean: give them [the crowd] some joy from your game :shrug: (:lol:)

doujyr
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:00 PM
A full investigation on some hearsay. Like we need some more witnesses before an investigation would be required.


I'ts not hearsay. The match was live on tv and her father was miked during a coaching break. Unfortunately I don't speak Polish - wish I did so I could confirm.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:00 PM
so what ur sayin is she started feeling the pain at 2-0 or 3-0 in the second but decided to continue on to give the crowd a match and also make kremer feel somehow better about herself losing 5-0 to a gimp. you guys think kremer would be glad to win that way? i'm sorry bit if this is true what your saying, there was 0% reason for her to continue and risk further injury to miss out on doha.

I can only speak from what I saw. I'm saying that the first set she seemed fine and had no visible pain. In the second set she started gimping between points, grimacing, and her service action was a disaster. She wasn't able to bend her knee so she was standing up and slicing it in. Obviously no player wants to win a match by retirement, but Caro knowing that Doha was next week, and that even if she would have won the match, she would have withdrawn from the tournament immediately following. I personally think it was a nice gesture to Anne simply due to the fact that this is her home tournament and she gets to give them some sort of hope for a nice run from her. The crowd appreciated her effort and applauded her before she even announced her retirement.

hankqq
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:00 PM
ok but let's think about this:

-Wozniacki and her father know there is a mic when they converse on court so it would be stupid of them to even try talking about fixing a match
-Wozniacki's family doesn't need the money, as all of them have done very well in sports
-some posters here who watched the match said Wozniacki's leg was clearly bothering her, and maybe the pain was getting to be too much. is it possible those of you watching didn't hear everything?

it just wouldn't make sense for Wozniacki and her father to engage in match fixing:shrug:

we'll have to wait and see what becomes of this.

Njay16
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:01 PM
:worship: im not going to change my oppinion because caro fans dont wanna read it, or resort to bashing chak.

Well since you didn't accept my offer I can continue to bitch. And like you haven't resorted to bashing other players. :rolleyes:

LudwigDvorak
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Wozniacki is 3-4 since the US Open. Disappointing, and definitely not expected by me.

I expect she'll do better in Doha.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:02 PM
:worship: im not going to change my oppinion because caro fans dont wanna read it, or resort to bashing chak.

I find it funny that people bash you for your opinion of their opinion... surely if having an opinion is fine (encouraged in fact), then it holds true that you having an opinion of someone else's opinion is also fine..??? no?? It is only an opinion after all :yeah:

miffedmax
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:02 PM
i said WTF why are people saying it was nice of her, thats a question, i didn't say you were wrong i was saying you are going to have to explain that to me as its screwed logic.

and she is dumb and a fool for playing luxembourg in the 1st place, let alone pulling this stunt.

Don't make fun of my poor dumb LOB member! At least she comes up with fresh, innovative ways to lose, unlike Chaky (who is, incidently, a reservist in the Legion of Blondes).

Actually, it's the perfect way to end this bizarro year for Caro the Syrup queen.

Lena's bangs.

WowWow
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:03 PM
-Wozniacki's family doesn't need the money, as all of them have done very well in sports


The more you have, the more you want.

BuTtErFrEnA
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:04 PM
Oh no...I wanna hear Michael Joyce bitching about Sharpie's opponents:drool::lol:

tenn_ace is going to find you :scared:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Don't make fun of my poor dumb LOB member! At least she comes up with fresh, innovative ways to lose, unlike Chaky (who is, incidently, a reservist in the Legion of Blondes).

Actually, it's the perfect way to end this bizarro year for Caro the Syrup queen.

Lena's bangs.

I start smiling from the moment i see you have posted :lol:

You could say AYTHING and I would still be laughing by the end of it :lick:

Protoss
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:06 PM
Wozniacki is 3-4 since the US Open. Disappointing, and definitely not expected by me.

I expect she'll do better in Doha.
You can't really count this match or the retirement against Wozniak against her. :shrug:

tenn_ace
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
As much as I dislike her, it could all be crap. Some idiot could have just made it all up

Jorn
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Don't they withdraw (cancel) all Live bets when somebody retires 5-0 up in a set?

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
This also makes the retirement against Wozniak at 0-5 0-30 shine in a different light. That is twice within a few weeks, that she heavily influenced betting markets with her weird retirement decisions. Im telling you, if they can prove that her father really told her to call for the trainer and retire at the next exchange, shell be gone for at least a year and her father can start starving contests with Dokics dad, cause hell get a lifetime ban from all tennis events.

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
ok but let's think about this:

-Wozniacki and her father know there is a mic when they converse on court so it would be stupid of them to even try talking about fixing a match
-Wozniacki's family doesn't need the money, as all of them have done very well in sports
-some posters here who watched the match said Wozniacki's leg was clearly bothering her, and maybe the pain was getting to be too much. is it possible those of you watching didn't hear everything?

it just wouldn't make sense for Wozniacki and her father to engage in match fixing:shrug:

we'll have to wait and see what becomes of this.

Logic like this doesn't wash on this board.

tenn_ace
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:08 PM
tenn_ace is going to find you :scared:

:ras:

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:08 PM
why would a future multi-millionaire chuck a match in a mickey mouse event for betting reasons and risk her entire career, and why would her father risk his daughters career? These alogations are total rubbish and this thread should be removed. We all saw how allogations ruined Davydenko for 18 months, lets not let this happen in our WTA.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:09 PM
This also makes the retirement against Wozniak at 0-5 0-30 shine in a different light. That is twice within a few weeks, that she heavily influenced betting markets with her weird retirement decisions. Im telling you, if they can prove that her father really told her to call for the trainer and retire at the next exchange, shell be gone for at least a year and her father can start starving contests with Dokics dad, cause hell get a lifetime ban from all tennis events.

and I got told I was over-hyping the situation!! I'm excited for the drama, but feel bad for Caro...she thought she was doing a nice thing...:sad:

Hugh.
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:10 PM
This also makes the retirement against Wozniak at 0-5 0-30 shine in a different light. That is twice within a few weeks, that she heavily influenced betting markets with her weird retirement decisions. Im telling you, if they can prove that her father really told her to call for the trainer and retire at the next exchange, shell be gone for at least a year and her father can start starving contests with Dokics dad, cause hell get a lifetime ban from all tennis events.

A slight overreaction would you say?

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:11 PM
Don't they withdraw (cancel) all Live bets when somebody retires 5-0 up in a set?

different bookmakers/exchanges got different rules. Some void all retirements, some pay out after the first ball has been hit, some after 1 or two completed sets.

But as I said, I seriously don't believe this was done out of match-fixing motivation (as for gaining lots of money)

JackFrost
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:11 PM
I can only speak from what I saw. I'm saying that the first set she seemed fine and had no visible pain. In the second set she started gimping between points, grimacing, and her service action was a disaster. She wasn't able to bend her knee so she was standing up and slicing it in. Obviously no player wants to win a match by retirement, but Caro knowing that Doha was next week, and that even if she would have won the match, she would have withdrawn from the tournament immediately following. I personally think it was a nice gesture to Anne simply due to the fact that this is her home tournament and she gets to give them some sort of hope for a nice run from her. The crowd appreciated her effort and applauded her before she even announced her retirement.
I cant imagine, that either Kremer or a real tennis fan likes it, when Kremer "wins" her match because of the generosity of her opponent. Its like: "Hey, look. I could have beaten this girl easily, if I wanted it, but because I have no interest in your tournament, she can have it". I like Caroline, but I think, that was pretty dump.

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:12 PM
ok but let's think about this:

-Wozniacki and her father know there is a mic when they converse on court so it would be stupid of them to even try talking about fixing a match

it just wouldn't make sense for Wozniacki and her father to engage in match fixing:shrug:

we'll have to wait and see what becomes of this.
Oh I'm not implying at all that "match fixing" was his intention or motivation. I don't think he though through all the implications of what he was saying.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:12 PM
A slight overreaction would you say?

i wouldn't. if the wta gets a hold of the tape and this IS what Caro's dad said, then they won't be too happy with her... remember all the drama on the ATP tour for betting scandals...

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Don't they withdraw (cancel) all Live bets when somebody retires 5-0 up in a set?

All bets stand once 1 set is completed at the bookie where most money is made/lost in-play . Betting $100 against Wozniacki would have made you $10,000 at the point her dad told her she should retire later in the match . Im pretty sure people who speak polish and bet on sports placed atleast 100 against her based on her father's talk .

LudwigDvorak
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:13 PM
You can't really count this match or the retirement against Wozniak against her. :shrug:

Yes I can. She participated in both matches, she lost, for whatever reason. I count them against her.

Mike_T
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:14 PM
So we’re to believe her Father shouted out an instruction to Caro for others to here? Utter nonsense. Just an anonymous causing mischief. He may have said something within earshot, but it’s been misheard and/or misinterpreted.

Steff_forever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:16 PM
But does it matter? Yes, she could've probably closed out this match, risking further injury, but she would have had to retire next match anyway. Now she gives Kremer a chance to continue instead. Was a nice thing to do for Kremer instead of just eliminating her. Good sportsmanship from Caroline.
:yeah:

young_gunner913
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:18 PM
So were to believe her Father shouted out an instruction to Caro for others to here? Utter nonsense. Just an anonymous causing mischief. He may have said something within earshot, but its been misheard and/or misinterpreted.

her father didnt shout anything. he was right there with her on court during a change over.

Apoleb
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
ok but let's think about this:

-Wozniacki and her father know there is a mic when they converse on court so it would be stupid of them to even try talking about fixing a match
-Wozniacki's family doesn't need the money, as all of them have done very well in sports
-some posters here who watched the match said Wozniacki's leg was clearly bothering her, and maybe the pain was getting to be too much. is it possible those of you watching didn't hear everything?

it just wouldn't make sense for Wozniacki and her father to engage in match fixing:shrug:

we'll have to wait and see what becomes of this.

What is shady is to play two more games and then retire. She could've retired at 0-3, saved herself from more risk of injury and gave the crowd "some joy." It really doesn't make sense to try and win two games and then retire at 5-0, one game away from winning the match.

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
So we’re to believe her Father shouted out an instruction to Caro for others to here? Utter nonsense. Just an anonymous causing mischief. He may have said something within earshot, but it’s been misheard and/or misinterpreted.

How could this person mishear anything , unless he can see the future : guy posts at the time score is 3-0 that her dad tells her to retire when score is 5-0 .
Surely there were thousands of dollars/euros/pounds won and lost based on his speech at this timeout , maybe not by her dad but people who watched the match lost and won a lot . This could have seriously damaged somebodys life .

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
but it's been multiple, independent members of this board who confirmed what he said

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
Another life-threatening injury for Caro, her third this season :bigcry:

But I'm sure she will rise from her death bed like she always does. I believe I should call her Catniacki now as the girl obviously has got nine lives. Well, six after today's incident.

Oh, and congrats to Anne on her 11th career top-10 win!

mb011
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:20 PM
shouldn't a player retire at the very moment he/she FEELS he/she cannot play anymore. should players be allowed to PLAN when to retire in a match??? what now? she proved she can beat Kremer, but decided to retire on her own terms. this is plain unprofessional to say the least!

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:21 PM
A slight overreaction would you say?

Not really. If they have him on tape saying exactly what some posters at ******* suggest.

You have to understand this means betting 10000 to win a million possibly more at *******. Id assume it was at least the standard 1.01 at 5-7 0-5, as opposed to 1.04 at 5-7 0-3. Somebody could have offered 1000 for 1 at that score, which means to risk 10000 to win 10 million. Id like to have a piece of that overreaction. At the same time dozens of punters lost out/saved a lot of money, because she decided to retire at 0-5 0-30 against Wozniak, instead of playing two more points. If an ATP player did something similar we all know what the reaction would be.

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:22 PM
i just heard the Barcelona Manager tell his keeper to let Ruben score, 100% true.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Not really. If they have him on tape saying exactly what some posters at ******* suggest.

You have to understand this means betting 10000 to win a million possibly more at *******. Id assume it was at least the standard 1.01 at 5-7 0-5, as opposed to 1.04 at 5-7 0-3. Somebody could have offered 1000 for 1 at that score, which means to risk 10000 to win 10 million. Id like to have a piece of that overreaction. At the same time dozens of punters lost out/saved a lot of money, because she decided to retire at 0-5 0-30 against Wozniak, instead of playing two more points. If an ATP player did something similar we all know what the reaction would be.

+ polish people who understood what he said had quite a big advantage over non-polish speakers

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:23 PM
shouldn't a player retire at the very moment he FEELS he cannot play anymore. should players be allowed to PLAN when to retire in a match??? what now? she proved she can beat Kremer, but decided to retire on her own terms. this is plain unprofessional to say the least

Nice to have confidence her dad has in his INJURED daughter to win 2 more games from 3-0 but then not handle 1 more game , that's blatant cheating even if no profit was made by their family or friends .

fouc
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:24 PM
ok but let's think about this:

-Wozniacki and her father know there is a mic when they converse on court so it would be stupid of them to even try talking about fixing a match
-Wozniacki's family doesn't need the money, as all of them have done very well in sports
-some posters here who watched the match said Wozniacki's leg was clearly bothering her, and maybe the pain was getting to be too much. is it possible those of you watching didn't hear everything?

it just wouldn't make sense for Wozniacki and her father to engage in match fixing:shrug:

we'll have to wait and see what becomes of this.

:weirdo: Are you suggesting that only poor, homeless people are involved in match fixing?

Having said that, I don't believe in match fixing. But still, since he knows that there's mic, hell!, he shouldn't have said that, especially given the fact that he knows that people watch it and knows something about betting.

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:24 PM
she retired at 5-0 so she doesnt have to play next round, smart when its only a mickey mouse tournement. People that lose money gambling on her need to be more careful and do more homework, she had a weak serve in her opening serve game, that alone should have rung some alarm bells, then backing her at 1/100, yes thats risk 100 to win 1, is just plain crazy.

Slutati
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Weird. :unsure:

Slutati
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Is this for real? :lol:

Yorker
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Question, say she was injured but the guy who posts the scores that gave the statement kinda let out a slip at 3-0, if people bet on it at that time would there still be a mess. becuase isn't her dad still planning her retirment even if she is actually injured.

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:25 PM
she retired at 5-0 so she doesnt have to play next round, smart when its only a mickey mouse tournement. People that lose money gambling on her need to be more careful and do more homework, she had a weak serve in her opening serve game, that alone should have rung some alarm bells, then backing her at 1/100, yes thats risk 100 to win 1, is just plain crazy.

He told her at 3-0 to win 2 more games and than ask for trainer and retire , EXPLAIN THIS , tyvm .

Martian Jeza
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:27 PM
I'm a Caroline fan but I can't accept such behavior : for me, it's an unprofessional behavior , no more, no less. You won't say to me, it would have been so difficult to stay 1 or 2 minutes more on court to finish the job and then maybe withdraw for the 2nd round. Even on one leg you should beat Kremer without much difficulties. Only my two cents of course.

Mike_T
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:27 PM
her father didnt shout anything. he was right there with her on court during a change over. Whatever way, he allowed it to be heard. That is seriously careless, in fact beyond belief, careless, which is the point I was making.

Dodoboy.
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Strange.. hopefully its not serious but if it is she only has herself to blame. Why she was even playing here is beyond me.

Co-sign.

I hope she gets better! Disgusting schedule, vomit-inducing! WHY WHY WHY! UGH! If she is injured, well start 2010 with NEW goals and NEW values!

Good luck what ever happens, great of her to do this for Kremer, fantastic for homegirl!

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:28 PM
I'm a Caroline fan but I can't accept such behavior : for me, it's an unprofessional behavior , no more, no less. You won't say to me, it would have been so difficult to stay 1 or 2 minutes more on court to finish the job and then maybe withdraw for the 2nd round. Even on one leg you should beat Kremer without much difficulties. Only my two cents of course.

i don't think anyone is disputing that. It's just that maybe she/her team were trying to do a nice thing and now they've landed themselves in the sh*t....

that's if her dad did say what we think he may have said

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:28 PM
He told her at 3-0 to win 2 more games and than ask for trainer and retire , EXPLAIN THIS , tyvm .


because if she had won 6-0 the hosts would expect her to play next round, losing 5-0 and she can go straight to the airport

mb011
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:28 PM
Nice to have confidence her dad has in his INJURED daughter to win 2 more games from 3-0 but then not handle 1 more game , that's blatant cheating even if no profit was made by their family or friends .

exactly!

The Dawntreader
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Just bizarre. What a wholly unsatisfying feeling for Kremer.

If she was in such pain in the second, why did she strive on for another 5 games? She couldn't have been that bad if she was WINNING.

hankqq
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:30 PM
:weirdo: Are you suggesting that only poor, homeless people are involved in match fixing?

Having said that, I don't believe in match fixing. But still, since he knows that there's mic, hell!, he shouldn't have said that, especially given the fact that he knows that people watch it and knows something about betting.


hold up there buddy. I never said "poor, homeless people" :weirdo: but it would make more sense for a struggling journeyman/woman to do this. Why in the world would a top player risk the future of his/her career by engaging in match fixing? Players know if they are caught, they'll lose their reputation, careers, sponsors, and they won't be able to keep the money that they gained from the match fixing. There's no reason for a top player to do this. A desperate journeyman/woman who is barely earning enough money to keep afloat would be more likely to do this :shrug:

For a top player, the risks involved far outweigh any potential gain.

I don't get what your problem with my statement is :shrug: I never said "all" lower ranked players do this :lol: I just said it would make more sense for one of them than a top player :shrug:

LUXXXAS
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:31 PM
wow what a shame :o her father is so stupid if he said that :help: Davydenko of SEWTA :spit:

Freakan
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Her dad never seemed too clever to me :tape:

Optima
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:32 PM
:smash:

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:32 PM
because if she had won 6-0 the hosts would expect her to play next round, losing 5-0 and she can go straight to the airport

yeah, but she knew 2 games before that she was definitely going to retire. I mean seriously...just lose 2-3 games after that 3-0, look heavily in pain and everybody, especially Kremer and the crowd are much hapiier than losing 5-0 and the opponent retiring then.

Marionated
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:33 PM
I don't think it's nice for Anne. I personally would feel quite embarrassed to win a match this way.

moby
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:34 PM
I still don't understand why my post was removed, when all I said was what everyone is saying now, except with a hint of jesting.

Protoss
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:34 PM
wow what a shame :o her father is so stupid if he said that :help: Davydenko of SEWTA :spit:
Davydenko was eventually exonerated. :shrug:

Navratil
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Great thing if she did it just to give Kremer the chance to continue her home tournament. But who knows...

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:35 PM
hold up there buddy. I never said "poor, homeless people" :weirdo: but it would make more sense for a struggling journeyman/woman to do this. Why in the world would a top player risk the future of his/her career by engaging in match fixing? Players know if they are caught, they'll lose their reputation, careers, sponsors, and they won't be able to keep the money that they gained from the match fixing. There's no reason for a top player to do this. A desperate journeyman/woman who is barely earning enough money to keep afloat would be more likely to do this :shrug:

I don't get what your problem with my statement is :shrug: I never said "all" lower ranked players do this :lol: I just said it would make more sense for one of them than a top player :shrug:

You know the saying: You can never have enough money.

This would be risking 10000, well hypothetically risking, to win in the range of one to ten million euros. Not exactly chump change.

Adrian.
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Caro is a cheater:shrug::o

Drimal
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:37 PM
yeah, but she knew 2 games before that she was definitely going to retire. I mean seriously...just lose 2-3 games after that 3-0, look heavily in pain and everybody, especially Kremer and the crowd are much hapiier than losing 5-0 and the opponent retiring then.

Like I posted in the other thread, Anne was 30:0 on her serve in that 4th game and had a BP in the 5th game.

Why didn't she let Anne win one of these games if she wanted to retire anyway? :confused:

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:37 PM
I don't think it's nice for Anne. I personally would feel quite embarrassed to win a match this way.

I don't think Anne feels embarrassed at all. She's finishing her career and she's got a chance to play one more match in front of her home crowd. Afterall it's not her fault the pusher and the pusher's father opted to fix quit.

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:38 PM
I don't know what this board would have done the last 6 months without Piotr and Caro :lol:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Davydenko was eventually exonerated. :shrug:

its more fun to pretend that people aren't in the clear tho... :rolleyes:

look at all the hingis/drugs jokes, even tho she so clearly never took anything directly

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:40 PM
I don't what this board would have done the last 6 months without Piotr and Caro :lol:

Lived peacefully and enjoyed the game of tennis?

Yorker
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
I don't what this board would have done the last 6 months without Piotr and Caro :lol:


maybe not fall asleep during one of her matches

M-K
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
And family Wozniacki show their true colors.

hankqq
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
You know the saying: You can never have enough money.

This would be risking 10000€, well hypothetically risking, to win in the range of one to ten million euros. Not exactly chump change.

read my other posts in this thread. :lol:

this is too risky. in a televised event with mics and plenty of press, there's a BIG chance anyone trying to fix a match would be found out rather quickly. Also as I said before, if you're caught, you can't keep the money :shrug:

Whether or not some of you are Wozniacki fans (I would make this defense for any player until he/she is proven to be guilty of this) she has a very promising future. There's no reason why she would want to do this. Reputation, sponsors, money-all of these would be gone. Why would you try doing something you know could ruin the rest of your life if you didn't need to do it?

Let's just wait and see what happens. Many of you are so quick to rush to conclusions :weirdo: :help:

young_gunner913
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
LMFAO @ all the caro fans saying how great it was for caro to do this for anne. WTF. :rolls:

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:42 PM
wow. two controversies (this and the Gulbis prostitute soliciting) that don't involve Serena!! She is staying out of the drama this time

Lucemferre
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:42 PM
Very interesting , if she can play 2 more game from 3-0 up why not 6 ? Don't think this is a great argument . Some people have lost serious money on it and some might be set for 10 years life off those 10 minutes of play winnings...

Oh those poor gamblers! IF you don't want to get screwed just don't gamble! Simple as that. I'm not gonna feel sorry for a bunch of idiots who blame players for everything. And I'm not a fan of Wozniacki.

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:43 PM
its more fun to pretend that people aren't in the clear tho... :rolleyes:

look at all the hingis/drugs jokes, even tho she so clearly never took anything directly

Really? She tested positive. What proof to the contrary do you have? Her word. Oh athletes would never lie about cheating. :lol:

St.Sebastian
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:44 PM
I don't think people realise how serious it is if that's really true.
If people indeed bet on Kremer while she was 57 03 down, then I wouldn't be surprised if the bookies started an investigation and demanded action from WTA.
Caro's father probably never realised what he was doing :weirdo:

Lucemferre
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:44 PM
wow. two controversies (this and the Gulbis prostitute soliciting) that don't involve Serena!! She is staying out of the drama this time

Lucky that she isn't around these players or the drama would somehow find a way to get Serena involved :tape:

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:46 PM
Really? She tested positive. What proof to the contrary do you have? Her word. Oh athletes would never lie about cheating. :lol:

She later did a hair test that later supposedly proved her innocent

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:46 PM
I don't think people realise how serious it is if that's really true.
If people indeed bet on Kremer while she was 57 03 down, then I wouldn't be surprised if the bookies started an investigation and demanded action from WTA.
Caro's father probably never realised what he was doing :weirdo:

Well , Im pretty sure 100s of people emailed them . Look what happened with Davydenko after his match with Vassalo where betf@ir started to investigate and sent the case to ATP , Wozniacki will get plenty of attention soon I guess ;)

Lucemferre
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:46 PM
I don't think people realise how serious it is if that's really true.
If people indeed bet on Kremer while she was 57 03 down, then I wouldn't be surprised if the bookies started an investigation and demanded action from WTA.
Caro's father probably never realised what he was doing :weirdo:

Those whiners got Davydenko in a lot of trouble and nothing happened to anyone except for his image. They should just stop whining whenever they lose money.

MBM
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:46 PM
Really? She tested positive. What proof to the contrary do you have? Her word. Oh athletes would never lie about cheating. :lol:

based on the amount found in her blood. no way that such a small quantity would result from taking the drug directly

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Lived peacefully and enjoyed the game of tennis?

Well not you with the Safina at #1 business :p

maybe not fall asleep during one of her matches

Obviously people haven't been. most her result threads always get a 100 replies at least :p

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:48 PM
I don't think people realise how serious it is if that's really true.
If people indeed bet on Kremer while she was 57 03 down, then I wouldn't be surprised if the bookies started an investigation and demanded action from WTA.
Caro's father probably never realised what he was doing :weirdo:

WTA will do nothing. They never do.

Herbert
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:49 PM
she might get attention for violating some code or something, but not because of match-fixing for financial (which this wasn't anyway).

Plenty of plain fixes (or people knowing a LOT) have been swept under the carpet ever since the davydenko incident. Nobody really can and wants to prove anything.

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:49 PM
daughters never listen to their fathers anyway, especially teenagers.

is1531
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:50 PM
No, you missed my point. I didn't think it was "dumb" for her to retire.

I thought it was dumb that she played Luxembourg in the first place.


The reason she was retiring at 5-0 was because she knew she was too injured to continue in the tournament so she rather let Kremer continue instead of eliminating her. It was a gift from Caroline to Anne. Caroline's main priority right now is obviously getting ready for DOHA but I still think it was a dumb decision to play this tournament. Now her DOHA performance might be in jeopardy.

I understood you point the first time, but I really was not attacking your point to begin with. I should have made just a general reply.

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:50 PM
Oh those poor gamblers! IF you don't want to get screwed just don't gamble! Simple as that. I'm not gonna feel sorry for a bunch of idiots who blame players for everything. And I'm not a fan of Wozniacki.

Yeah and screw all the hard workers, who put more money into a bank account than the national deposit insurance covers. Sh*t happens. If you dont want to get screwed dont put your money into the hands of other people. Solid argument right there. Do you hide all your money under the bed? :rolleyes:

rucolo
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:53 PM
Shocking!!!:eek::confused:

Was it really impossible for Caroline to finish the match?!

AnnaK_4ever
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:54 PM
Well not you with the Safina at #1 business :p

I was talking about the board as a whole, not about myself :wavey:

Lucemferre
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:54 PM
Yeah and screw all the hard workers, who put more money into a bank account than the national deposit insurance covers. Sh*t happens. If you dont want to get screwed dont put your money into the hands of other people. Solid argument right there. Do you hide all your money under the bed? :rolleyes:

Bad example. Nobody forces anyone to gamble. I love it when they lose,idiots :lol:

Joana
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:55 PM
If you retire at 7-5 5-0 it's either because you've lost a limb or because you're up to something shady. There's no other reason.

Patrick345
Oct 20th, 2009, 08:59 PM
Bad example. Nobody forces anyone to gamble. I love it when they lose,idiots :lol:

Who forces you to carry your money to a bank? The stock market isnt free of regulations either, insider trading is a crime. You sound like a bitter person, who doesnt know how to do it and is jealous of people who do.

LightWarrior
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:03 PM
She should be banned for the next couple tournaments. I mean this is more serious than the Serena outburst. lol

BournemouthBoy
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:04 PM
good job Oudin didn't play, can you imagine if it was a set all, the 3rd set would be a race to see who could retire b4 the other without making it to obvious you ddint want to play next round.

WTAMaster
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:04 PM
Who forces you to carry your money to a bank? The stock market isnt free of regulations either, insider trading is a crime. You sound like a bitter person, who doesnt know how to do it and is jealous of people who do.

http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae191/neisied1/co-sign.gif

TheAllan
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:05 PM
Anne is a real nice girl, I'm glad for her. She hasn't had the easiest time the last couple of years with her hand injury and I thought she would be retiring. Can't really say I fancy her chances against Srebotnik, but she did play pretty well prior to Caroline's injury.

Mynarco
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:07 PM
OH-MY-GOD. I smell a scandal.

This is the worst thing happening in WTA.

pokey camp
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:08 PM
I don't think people realise how serious it is if that's really true.
If people indeed bet on Kremer while she was 57 03 down, then I wouldn't be surprised if the bookies started an investigation and demanded action from WTA.
Caro's father probably never realised what he was doing :weirdo:
This. I'm not bashing Caro, I actually really like her. I think they were trying to do a classy thing? :shrug: It's just in the heat of the moment they didn't realize all of the problems with it... :help: Very careless.

And I don't understand why people can't understand how problematic this is; the moment I read about it :eek:.

Lol, them must mean the home crowd :lol:
Talk about a storm in a tea cup.
Its not a tempest in a teapot. You simply cant have coaches broadcasting when a player is going to retire. If a coach says retire at point x, even though theres no guarantee that point x will happen, the gambling implications are enormous.

moby
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:08 PM
As Elena would say, this was a family decision. :)

teddyboysmith2
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:11 PM
i like wozniacki but her dad seems a bit off

SOA_MC
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:13 PM
As Elena would say, this was a family decision. :)

Very good :worship: finally a hater with something funny

kman
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:13 PM
How the hell do you conclude match fixing from the words "let THEM have some joy" ? Even if he said that, he probably just meant Anne and her home crowd.

In other words, if he knew Caroline was too injured to continue in the tournament, why not let Anne continue instead of eliminating her? That's very nice of team Wozniacki, yet somehow you manage to twist it into some malevolent act.


There's absolutely no basis for drawing anything about match fixing into this. Some of you people on this forum are beyond ridiculous and need to seriously stop drinking the haterade. What a bunch of losers trying desperately to create some excitement in your petty little lives...

Eduardo Oliveira
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:14 PM
:help:

Yorker
Oct 20th, 2009, 09:16 PM
How the hell do you conclude match fixing from the words "let THEM have some joy" ? Even if he said that, he probably just meant Anne and her home crowd.

In other words, if he knew Caroline was too injured to continue in the tournament, why not let Anne continue instead of eliminating her?


There's absolutely no basis for drawing anything about match fixing into this. Some of you people on this forum are beyond ridiculous and need to seriously stop drinking haterade. What a bunch of losers trying despate to create some excitement in their petty little lives...



Let them have some joy for 2 extra games for 5 minutes while risking further injury to yourself caroline hunny, it's the right thing to do, i mean the yec isn't a big tournament at all. that makes nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sense at all to risk further injury whichever way you look at it.