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RVD
Sep 11th, 2009, 05:48 AM
I noticed this intriguing caption on my MSBNC Homepage that inquired: "Are babies Racist?"
So of course, I had to read and discover what the controlled findings indicated.
I won't give anything away except to say that the main caption was immediately following by the sub-caption--- "Study reveals surprising prejudices, even in young children".

So without further ado, here is the first page of a rather lengthy article and its associated link for anyone interested in social experiments as much as I am. :cool: :)

=========================================


See Baby Discriminate
Kids as young as 6 months judge others based on skin color. What's a parent to do?

At the Children's Research Lab at the University of Texas, a database is kept on thousands of families in the Austin area who have volunteered to be available for scholarly research. In 2006 Birgitte Vittrup recruited from the database about a hundred families, all of whom were Caucasian with a child 5 to 7 years old.

The goal of Vittrup's study was to learn if typical children's videos with multicultural storylines have any beneficial effect on children's racial attitudes. Her first step was to give the children a Racial Attitude Measure, which asked such questions as:

How many White people are nice?
(Almost all) (A lot) (Some) (Not many) (None)

How many Black people are nice?
(Almost all) (A lot) (Some) (Not many) (None)

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During the test, the descriptive adjective "nice" was replaced with more than 20 other adjectives, like "dishonest," "pretty," "curious," and "snobby."

Vittrup sent a third of the families home with multiculturally themed videos for a week, such as an episode of Sesame Street in which characters visit an African-American family's home, and an episode of Little Bill, where the entire neighborhood comes together to clean the local park.

In truth, Vittrup didn't expect that children's racial attitudes would change very much just from watching these videos. Prior research had shown that multicultural curricula in schools have far less impact than we intend them to—largely because the implicit message "We're all friends" is too vague for young children to understand that it refers to skin color.

Yet Vittrup figured explicit conversations with parents could change that. So a second group of families got the videos, and Vittrup told these parents to use them as the jumping-off point for a discussion about interracial friendship. She provided a checklist of points to make, echoing the shows' themes. "I really believed it was going to work," Vittrup recalls.

The last third were also given the checklist of topics, but no videos. These parents were to discuss racial equality on their own, every night for five nights.

At this point, something interesting happened. Five families in the last group abruptly quit the study. Two directly told Vittrup, "We don't want to have these conversations with our child. We don't want to point out skin color."

Vittrup was taken aback—these families volunteered knowing full well it was a study of children's racial attitudes. Yet once they were aware that the study required talking openly about race, they started dropping out.

It was no surprise that in a liberal city like Austin, every parent was a welcoming multiculturalist, embracing diversity. But according to Vittrup's entry surveys, hardly any of these white parents had ever talked to their children directly about race. They might have asserted vague principles—like "Everybody's equal" or "God made all of us" or "Under the skin, we're all the same"—but they'd almost never called attention to racial differences.

They wanted their children to grow up colorblind. But Vittrup's first test of the kids revealed they weren't colorblind at all. Asked how many white people are mean, these children commonly answered, "Almost none." Asked how many blacks are mean, many answered, "Some," or "A lot." Even kids who attended diverse schools answered the questions this way.

Page 2 (http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989/page/2)

RVD
Sep 11th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Of all those Vittrup told to talk openly about interracial friendship, only six families managed to actually do so. And, for all six, their children dramatically improved their racial attitudes in a single week. Talking about race was clearly key. Reflecting later about the study, Vittrup said, "A lot of parents came to me afterwards and admitted they just didn't know what to say to their kids, and they didn't want the wrong thing coming out of the mouth of their kids."
I found this article fascinating because there isn't a Black family that I know of, or have encountered that doesn't talk to their kids about racism.
Also, these discussions often have definitive lines drawn as to how to address racial adversity whenever encountered. Almost like a rule book of do's and don'ts that vary greatly, depending on the family, region, and multicultural mix.

miffedmax
Sep 11th, 2009, 12:21 PM
Interesting. Very different from the experiences my kids have had, but I tend to not sugarcoat things.

Vyacheslavovna
Sep 13th, 2009, 02:03 PM
A long read: why can't they put it all on one goddamn page

It touched on some of the things raised in that thread about PC, plus on why white Americans don't do well at basketball.

Thanks for posting.

RVD
Sep 13th, 2009, 08:40 PM
Interesting. Very different from the experiences my kids have had, but I tend to not sugarcoat things.It's easy to tell from your posting pattern that you are a straight forward and up front person. :cool: Your kids will, and I'm sure, have already, benefited from such an approach.

I am straight up with my kids as well, and they have all types of varied ethnic friends.
I frequently cook dinner for my kids' friends and strike up conversations with them because I consider this part of a parent's duty to assess who they hang out with. Also, I enjoy the energy of the younger generations. Folks my age are freak'n dying off, and/or so decrepit that it makes me want to cry. :sad:

Aside:
I found the original caption, "Are Babies Racist?", misleading.
Those test subjects were FAR from being babies. :lol:

RVD
Sep 13th, 2009, 08:43 PM
A long read: why can't they put it all on one goddamn page

It touched on some of the things raised in that thread about PC, plus on why white Americans don't do well at basketball.

Thanks for posting.:lol: :lol: No kidding. I had to read it in two installments. :lol:

supergrunt
Sep 13th, 2009, 08:53 PM
of course babies are racist.. one of our instincts as humans (as a result of evolution) is to stereotype to avoid danger

Wigglytuff
Sep 13th, 2009, 11:15 PM
It's easy to tell from your posting pattern that you are a straight forward and up front person. :cool: Your kids will, and I'm sure, have already, benefited from such an approach.

I am straight up with my kids as well, and they have all types of varied ethnic friends.
I frequently cook dinner for my kids' friends and strike up conversations with them because I consider this part of a parent's duty to assess who they hang out with. Also, I enjoy the energy of the younger generations. Folks my age are freak'n dying off, and/or so decrepit that it makes me want to cry. :sad:

Aside:
I found the original caption, "Are Babies Racist?", misleading.
Those test subjects were FAR from being babies. :lol:

you took the words right out of my mouth.

i cant say i am suprised AT ALL by this. race and racism are deeply ingrained. some people just dont care to address reality they just want to gloss things over.

for example you can go right now to GM and see Serena called "ghetto" among other things. it is pure racist vitriol to go there because no one ever called jen cap that or mac or any of the other players who have Break downs like that.

moral: you cant gloss race over, you need to take it on full steam address it, acknowledge but dont let it cloud your mind or judgment.

RVD
Sep 14th, 2009, 02:12 AM
you took the words right out of my mouth.

i cant say i am suprised AT ALL by this. race and racism are deeply ingrained. some people just dont care to address reality they just want to gloss things over.

for example you can go right now to GM and see Serena called "ghetto" among other things. it is pure racist vitriol to go there because no one ever called jen cap that or mac or any of the other players who have Break downs like that.

moral: you cant gloss race over, you need to take it on full steam address it, acknowledge but dont let it cloud your mind or judgment.One main conclusion I drew through my own personal investigation of race and other social experiments was that different ethnicities think differently. Of course there are various cultural similarities (foods, music, theater, dance, etc...). However, when the essence of the individual morals, ethics, and core beliefs are broached, we then discover the undercurrent of what drives an individual and how race may be interlaced with many of the decisions that we make.

I once debated this very point with my best friend (who is a White male from Colorado) and he just couldn't wrap his mind around this concept. This was very early in our friendship stage.
He once told me, some years ago, that if he wanted something he just took it. He felt that since the US is the world's superpower, that it is well within our right to invade other countries and do whatever it takes to claim that land or resource. I was shocked!!
But then he's also a student of Darwin's Natural Selection. We nearly came to blows when i told him that I felt Darwin's theories pertained maninly to the lower species of animals and also how nature maintained it's balance. Lower animals can't reason or logically analyze the complexities that occur in daily life like Humans do. Therefore, nature weeds out those entities that can't co-exist within a particular environment. Of course, that's my own personal belief, but he took it hard. :lol:

Every Black man or woman that I've ever spoken to feels the opposite, when it comes to invading other nations. Including myself.
It may have to do with events that occurred some 400 years ago with our ancestors, or it may even be something innate.
Now, I'm not suggesting that ALL Whites feel or think it is their natural right to invade other nations, just because we ca, because I know plenty who do not believe this. However, a great number of White Americans do and have supported this line of thinking. And I offer the Iraq war as the latest example.

As for the people in GM...
There is no way that these folks who've never liked Serena in the first place, would ever view an incident that she's involved in, objectively.
I too noticed that rather than question the call, they question Serena's attitude and completely discount the bad-call patterns during US Open slams that both Venus and Serena get called on. And rather than argue with them, I post one or two points and leave.
There are folks all over this board who don't even realize that they harbor racists views. but let their daughter or son bring home a Black friend (boyfriend or girlfriend) and their parents will blow a gasket.

I;ve tell my kids to make as many friends with as many ethnicities as possible. Then i tell them to judge the "individual", not the group.
As the grew they asked me questions based upon their own observations pertaining to various ethnic groups. I then give them feedback on my observations. That's how we handle "race" in my household.

Minority Americans have to live in two distinct worlds.
One is the world of the majority, and the other, their own.
As a Black male, we must be extremely care what we say, how we look, where we're standing, who our friends are, and how we carry ourselves.
Whites just need to be themselves and they are accepted.
Tennis is the perfect example of what I speak. Look at Jennifer Capriati and how she acted on a regular during her matches. She was a tyrrant. A talented one, but a tyrant nonetheless. look at John McEnroe's court behavior. America LOVED these two troublemakers. Heck, even I enjoyed their antics.
But let Serena curse an idiot linesman out, and she's ENEMY #1.

Just another solid inarguable example of the world we live in, and must traverse.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 14th, 2009, 05:31 AM
There is no way that these folks who've never liked Serena in the first place, would ever view an incident that she's involved in, objectively.

Then there is no way that folks who like Serena would be able to view the situation objectively, either.

McEnroe was by no means universally loved. He was actually disqualified, on more than one occasion. He was also regularly criticized for being an asshat :shrug: Mind you, the Capriati love is simply inexplicable. I've got nothing there.

This is... off topic, but hey - I'm responding to what was written.

Topic: Duh. Not to imply that it shouldn't have been posted, of course. It's a fine topic. Just.. duh. This isn't even remotely surprising, MSNBC, Newsweek, or whoever wrote that.

Just an observation, but even Korean babies stare at me (I'm not Korean, I live in Korea). Of course, staring is not, in itself, racist.

Wigglytuff
Sep 14th, 2009, 06:35 PM
One main conclusion I drew through my own personal investigation of race and other social experiments was that different ethnicities think differently. Of course there are various cultural similarities (foods, music, theater, dance, etc...). However, when the essence of the individual morals, ethics, and core beliefs are broached, we then discover the undercurrent of what drives an individual and how race may be interlaced with many of the decisions that we make.

I once debated this very point with my best friend (who is a White male from Colorado) and he just couldn't wrap his mind around this concept. This was very early in our friendship stage.
He once told me, some years ago, that if he wanted something he just took it. He felt that since the US is the world's superpower, that it is well within our right to invade other countries and do whatever it takes to claim that land or resource. I was shocked!!
But then he's also a student of Darwin's Natural Selection. We nearly came to blows when i told him that I felt Darwin's theories pertained maninly to the lower species of animals and also how nature maintained it's balance. Lower animals can't reason or logically analyze the complexities that occur in daily life like Humans do. Therefore, nature weeds out those entities that can't co-exist within a particular environment. Of course, that's my own personal belief, but he took it hard. :lol:

Every Black man or woman that I've ever spoken to feels the opposite, when it comes to invading other nations. Including myself.
It may have to do with events that occurred some 400 years ago with our ancestors, or it may even be something innate.
Now, I'm not suggesting that ALL Whites feel or think it is their natural right to invade other nations, just because we ca, because I know plenty who do not believe this. However, a great number of White Americans do and have supported this line of thinking. And I offer the Iraq war as the latest example.

As for the people in GM...
There is no way that these folks who've never liked Serena in the first place, would ever view an incident that she's involved in, objectively.
I too noticed that rather than question the call, they question Serena's attitude and completely discount the bad-call patterns during US Open slams that both Venus and Serena get called on. And rather than argue with them, I post one or two points and leave.
There are folks all over this board who don't even realize that they harbor racists views. but let their daughter or son bring home a Black friend (boyfriend or girlfriend) and their parents will blow a gasket.

I;ve tell my kids to make as many friends with as many ethnicities as possible. Then i tell them to judge the "individual", not the group.
As the grew they asked me questions based upon their own observations pertaining to various ethnic groups. I then give them feedback on my observations. That's how we handle "race" in my household.

Minority Americans have to live in two distinct worlds.
One is the world of the majority, and the other, their own.
As a Black male, we must be extremely care what we say, how we look, where we're standing, who our friends are, and how we carry ourselves.
Whites just need to be themselves and they are accepted.
Tennis is the perfect example of what I speak. Look at Jennifer Capriati and how she acted on a regular during her matches. She was a tyrrant. A talented one, but a tyrant nonetheless. look at John McEnroe's court behavior. America LOVED these two troublemakers. Heck, even I enjoyed their antics.
But let Serena curse an idiot linesman out, and she's ENEMY #1.

Just another solid inarguable example of the world we live in, and must traverse.

amazing post! i agree with all the points.

RVD
Sep 14th, 2009, 06:51 PM
Then there is no way that folks who like Serena would be able to view the situation objectively, either.I beg to differ on that point.
Now mind you, I'm refrring to moals, ethics, and fairness here.

Therefore the question is, of the two gruops, Haters vs. Supporters, which group is basing there likes and dislikes based upon moral and ethical grounds, and a sense of fairness, and which one simply hates for the sole purpose of hating, based upon some innate or psychological mechanism? It's much more difficult to employ fairness than it is hatred. In other words, it's easier to hate someone or a group of people than it is to embrace them. And this article goes quite the distance to prove this.
McEnroe was by no means universally loved. He was actually disqualified, on more than one occasion. He was also regularly criticized for being an asshat :shrug: Mind you, the Capriati love is simply inexplicable. I've got nothing there.Again, I beg to differ. McEnroe was in fact loved and embraced by Americans. Especially when t came to playing against foreign opponents (at the US Open). ;) I can sight MANY other points on this by I have to go do my volunteer work and I'm late. But I'll be back in a few hours.

This is... off topic, but hey - I'm responding to what was written.

Topic: Duh. Not to imply that it shouldn't have been posted, of course. It's a fine topic. Just.. duh. This isn't even remotely surprising, MSNBC, Newsweek, or whoever wrote that.

Just an observation, but even Korean babies stare at me (I'm not Korean, I live in Korea). Of course, staring is not, in itself, racist.Well, feel free to post in any topic I create.
All are welcome as long as they remain civil and non-combative. :D

Also, I have a TON to say about Asians and "race". But again, that'll have to wait, cuz I'm out the door.

BigB08822
Sep 14th, 2009, 07:13 PM
I saw video once of a study and they showed how young children, no matter their race, would chose to play with a white doll instead of a black doll. Not all of the time, of course, but most of the time. It was interesting. I don't think it says anything about children being racist but it does show that they are taught to prefer or appreciate some things (in this case, race) over others.

plantman
Sep 14th, 2009, 08:30 PM
I saw video once of a study and they showed how young children, no matter their race, would chose to play with a white doll instead of a black doll. Not all of the time, of course, but most of the time. It was interesting. I don't think it says anything about children being racist but it does show that they are taught to prefer or appreciate some things (in this case, race) over others.

Speaking of being taught

I read something similar but it focused on Santa. White families having only white santa's. Mall santa's were always white, santa was always white on t.v. What was a white child to think when they first set eyes on a black santa but confusion followed by...SANTA'S NOT REAL!

I'm guessing it's the same to some extent for all other ethnic families as well seeing santa portrayed as white everywhere...:shrug:

RVD
Sep 14th, 2009, 09:59 PM
I saw video once of a study and they showed how young children, no matter their race, would chose to play with a white doll instead of a black doll. Not all of the time, of course, but most of the time. It was interesting. I don't think it says anything about children being racist but it does show that they are taught to prefer or appreciate some things (in this case, race) over others.I believe that I may have seen the same docu., If it was aired many years ago.
It was sad because when the young Black kids were asked why they preferred the White dolls, they answered with, "...because they are prettier." :sad:
It was a clear cut example of low self-esteem, and little to no self-confidence.
When children aren't proud of who and what they are, then they will invariably face social and racial problems of an unknown degree.

Some of the reasons I started performing volunteer work at schools, was to demonstrate that Black males could be visibly effective in the community; and to be that rare positive image of a Black man that the media and law enforcement disparages far more than they praise or commend.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 14th, 2009, 11:34 PM
interesting as usual RVD...

let me start off topic and just say that with regards to GM and serena, jmac etc were characters and good for the game (loved or hated) and serena is called ghetto despite that being the only time i've ever seen her lose her cool to that degree...everyone is crying for an apology and talking about how scared the linesperson was, with some of the comments being "who wouldn't be scared with serena standing over them?"....so i ask, why is serena scarier than jmac or connors?? or even vika when throwing her tantrums?? why is serena described as a thug and classless, but not a character?? how comes people laugh off jmac and others and ignore the fact that jmac now gets endorsements with ads which are based on his bad attitude, but yet want to talk about suspending serena and criminally charging her? usually i don't mind the banter in GM but i knew after saturday night a whole lot of "thug" etc names would be thrown, and racial stuff would start so i am staying away until it dies down...

I live in Barbados and we are like 95% black...the remaining 5% are whites, indians and very few asians...one would think that with this majority there wouldn't be racial problems, and for the most part they aren't but in certain areas and at certain times they come out...

you see it played out in the justice system...you see it in how different companies here are treated by the government...but especially in relation to the article, you see it in school so let me give an example:

the school system here is free...our government pays from nursery straight through to our first university degree at our regional university (we pay only like a couple hundred dollars for school fees which takes care of books for us etc)...there are a few private schools...coming up through the system its only now that i look back that i can truly say i have to agree with the article, but wonder how much of it is determined by the parents' attitudes...

let me explain and say that in order to get into our secondary schools (equivalent of your high school in a way), we all do a standard common entrance examination at the end of primary school (at 10) and your marks determine where you go to secondary school....in secondary school in particular, i remember that it was my school and few of the other top schools (4 of them in all mine included)that whites ALWAYS transferred to...during lunch they were always together, separate from the blacks, and even after school they remained separate....they always sat in a group in class together...

what is also interesting is that the private schools white are majority white, and the few blacks that go there seemingly have the same attitude that i have found from some posters here...they talk about "not being able to take the ghetto out of people", which surprises me coming from blacks...i admit i hate seeing blacks act foolish (kanye west anyone?) and i hate those who blame all their struggles on "the white man" instead of actually getting up and making something of their lives, but i don't go that far...intra-racism?

so to me it begs the question...is this a matter caused by the parents' attitudes, whether spoken or unspoken, towards different races, and even towards their own race? with sociology as one of my majors, i always remember the socialisation of children...are these racial tendencies inherent, or are they learned? when they are watching the news and see blacks arrested do they say things like "typical", "so what's new" etc? when whites are arrested do they express shock? do they then start to question the justice system? simple things like these can influence their children's opinions on race even though they may never outright talk about race with them...

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 14th, 2009, 11:53 PM
on the point with the study done with the dolls, i think there are two problems:

1. the children think that white is better because it is what is portrayed in the media...it is made no better when they see blacks going to every length to look white with the bleaching of the skin, the constant weave because you can't be seen with your natural hair etc...it's one thing i dislike about both ws, but i always see the way posters here always beg them to put in new weave etc because they look "a hot mess"...and the argument about managing natural hair being harder than just weave: false hair tends to smell a lot quicker than your natural hair, and it's not like they are putting on minor extensions - check venus' wig last us open and tell me that was easier to manage than her shorter thinner natural hair...

BUT!!!

2. the doll makers ALWAYS make black dolls looking very ugly...the black barbie for instance is usually stuck in colours that do NOT suit the very dark skin they insist on giving it...so it's really no wonder any child with eyes knows that it's not made to look pretty...one therefore has to ask: do the makers intend to make them ugly??

RVD
Sep 15th, 2009, 06:37 AM
interesting as usual RVD...

let me start off topic and just say that with regards to GM and serena, jmac etc were characters and good for the game (loved or hated) and serena is called ghetto despite that being the only time i've ever seen her lose her cool to that degree...everyone is crying for an apology and talking about how scared the linesperson was, with some of the comments being "who wouldn't be scared with serena standing over them?"....so i ask, why is serena scarier than jmac or connors?? or even vika when throwing her tantrums?? why is serena described as a thug and classless, but not a character?? how comes people laugh off jmac and others and ignore the fact that jmac now gets endorsements with ads which are based on his bad attitude, but yet want to talk about suspending serena and criminally charging her? usually i don't mind the banter in GM but i knew after saturday night a whole lot of "thug" etc names would be thrown, and racial stuff would start so i am staying away until it dies down...

I live in Barbados and we are like 95% black...the remaining 5% are whites, indians and very few asians...one would think that with this majority there wouldn't be racial problems, and for the most part they aren't but in certain areas and at certain times they come out...

you see it played out in the justice system...you see it in how different companies here are treated by the government...but especially in relation to the article, you see it in school so let me give an example:

the school system here is free...our government pays from nursery straight through to our first university degree at our regional university (we pay only like a couple hundred dollars for school fees which takes care of books for us etc)...there are a few private schools...coming up through the system its only now that i look back that i can truly say i have to agree with the article, but wonder how much of it is determined by the parents' attitudes...

let me explain and say that in order to get into our secondary schools (equivalent of your high school in a way), we all do a standard common entrance examination at the end of primary school (at 10) and your marks determine where you go to secondary school....in secondary school in particular, i remember that it was my school and few of the other top schools (4 of them in all mine included)that whites ALWAYS transferred to...during lunch they were always together, separate from the blacks, and even after school they remained separate....they always sat in a group in class together...

what is also interesting is that the private schools white are majority white, and the few blacks that go there seemingly have the same attitude that i have found from some posters here...they talk about "not being able to take the ghetto out of people", which surprises me coming from blacks...i admit i hate seeing blacks act foolish (kanye west anyone?) and i hate those who blame all their struggles on "the white man" instead of actually getting up and making something of their lives, but i don't go that far...intra-racism?

so to me it begs the question...is this a matter caused by the parents' attitudes, whether spoken or unspoken, towards different races, and even towards their own race? with sociology as one of my majors, i always remember the socialisation of children...are these racial tendencies inherent, or are they learned? when they are watching the news and see blacks arrested do they say things like "typical", "so what's new" etc? when whites are arrested do they express shock? do they then start to question the justice system? simple things like these can influence their children's opinions on race even though they may never outright talk about race with them...
Thank you for this very informative post ANARENA. I am unfamiliar with Barbados, but with your post, I now have relational information in my arsenal. :worship:

In reference to Serena’s behavior, I honestly believe that both she and Venus experience moments where they simply cannot take the daily pressures that are completely outside of tennis. Like the disrespectful attitudes, double standards, overt discrimination (IW, US Open), and sometimes the day becomes a week, and the weeks become a year. Racial pressure in America, I believe is unique in that it is ingrained in the very fabric of our (American) culture. We see it and experience it everyday. This isn’t something easily explained to people who do not experience it. And when we try, the rebutting party simply ignores all the facts or suggests that it’s all in our heads. And really, I wish that were true, but it isn’t. So when studies like these are performed to this degree, I try my best to tactfully present the topic with the hope that it will enhance the knowledge base of folks who have trouble acknowledging certain facts.
Serena does not be any means regularly blow her top as she did the other day. She’s a character who tries to give the media/press and fans an exciting show. Venus is a quieter version, and keeps it bottled up. But you can almost see the smoke spouting from her ears when she gets a bad call. I recall on one long ago occasion where Venus screamed at the officials and nearly cried on court due to horrible officiating, but it seems that only Williams fans recall these emotional moments. I hope that Serena just accepts that she will have to simply be even better in her matches so that she will never be placed in a position like that again. Just go out there and blow the competition away, and walk off the court. :lol:
She will NEVER be accepted and embraced on the same level as McEnroe, Evert, Navratilova, Capriati, Seles, Roddick, etc..., because people don’t see a champion athlete when they look at her, they see a muscular Black woman FIRST, and then everything else follows. The role that she plays is not all that different from those Black men and women who came before her. However unfortunate it may be, she will have to represent an entire race of people not very liked here to begin with.

Now to the meat of your post. :)

You ask some very profound questions. And fortunately, these are questions I’ve also asked for years, and have arrived at various conclusions.

First off, I truly believe that we are products of our environments. That would include our parents, community, and the media. You wonder whether parents influence their children’s behavior, and I believe they do...but to a lessor degree than most may think. For instance, does a mass murderer’s son or daughter grow to also become a mass murderer? Does a philander’s child grow up with the same individual beliefs? If my parents are greedy, would I then be just as greedy?
For the most part, I believe that the answer to such questions depends on the child’s on sense of “self”. Just like we decide on our chosen profession, I believe that we also decide what course we take in life socially. I’ve met some of the most racist people that you can imagine, and their children turn out to be the nicest sweetest kids who can’t stand to even look at their own progenitors. I’ve had kids come up to me out of no where on the school playground tell me that their parents HATE Blacks but that their best friends are Black. I’ve also had very nasty parents approach me and tell me that I do act like the typical Black male. :scratch: but what they find typical, is the same as what I find atypical. :shrug:

One huge aspect of our American culture that I find disturbing is the sheer power and influence that the media has over many of the population. The media (and film) is NOT an unbiased source. It advertises life; death, penis enlargement(sex in our bedrooms); health; hate; racism; fear; beauty; what we should eat; what we shouldn’t eat; who we should love; and who we should call “enemy”. This is an incredibly powerful social tool, that people take for granted. This tool has more influence than parents, IMMHO.

Serena was front page news for the last 2 days. And that news was UGLY. Even on the internet Home Page(s), I saw Serena described in the most heinous of articles on her to date, You would have thought that she’d actually killed that lines person, given what was written about her. Anytime a Black man or women turns up in the news, it’s rarely a positive story. However, when that Black man or woman does something controversial, the world stops for a few seconds or days, and hearts cease to beat. It’s a daunting life to say the least, but adversity is nothing new to Blacks. Serena will endure and overcome, and so will these minority children who face the same.

I will at least hold to that belief, because sadly there is no other option.

RVD
Sep 15th, 2009, 07:02 AM
on the point with the study done with the dolls, i think there are two problems:

1. the children think that white is better because it is what is portrayed in the media...it is made no better when they see blacks going to every length to look white with the bleaching of the skin, the constant weave because you can't be seen with your natural hair etc...it's one thing i dislike about both ws, but i always see the way posters here always beg them to put in new weave etc because they look "a hot mess"...and the argument about managing natural hair being harder than just weave: false hair tends to smell a lot quicker than your natural hair, and it's not like they are putting on minor extensions - check venus' wig last us open and tell me that was easier to manage than her shorter thinner natural hair...

BUT!!!

2. the doll makers ALWAYS make black dolls looking very ugly...the black barbie for instance is usually stuck in colours that do NOT suit the very dark skin they insist on giving it...so it's really no wonder any child with eyes knows that it's not made to look pretty...one therefore has to ask: do the makers intend to make them ugly??:lol: :lol: :lol:
I LOVE this post because it gets to the meat of one of the issues I have with my peeps. :lol:

My sister is a Cosmetologist. Many of my relatives are as well.
My oldest sister does weaves, french braids, micro-braids, basket-weaves, etc...
She's fairly well known and has done the hair of Hollywood stars.
She's done my hair for years and I was a male model for her business in my youth. :o
But I'll tell you this much, if I had as much hair as I did back then, I would never endure that level of pain again. :lol:
That sh!t HURTS!!!!

But you're correct when you say that the weaves stink, and it's because the wearer can't wash it for the length of time its in the hair. :scared:
'Ish' itches too. :lol:

Personally, the sexiest sista wears her "do" naturally.
I grew up with Afro Puffs and Naturals, and that was the most attractive style a Black woman could wear, IMHO.
I harken for those days to return. :sad:

Anyway, yes, I COMPLETELY agree with your #1.
When you have the media and copious magazines telling you White is beautiful, skinny is sexy, and Blonds have the most fun, these poor little Black girls are left with a false view of what true beauty really is. Like I stated in my previous post, the media is an incredibly powerful social tool.
It can and does dictate to the weakest of minds.
And we've witnessed a pandemic of those over the last 11 years (Bush years and the current conservative camps and the influence of the conservative media).

As parents, relatives, and friends of these young ones, we need to serve as examples of what beauty is and why we are proud to be who and what we are. That is how I’ve always lived my life, and that is how I will continue to live it.

P.S.
I HATE TO SEE A SISTA IN A WIG!!
IT JUST AIN'T RIGHT!! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/headshake.gif
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S A WIG.

Wigglytuff
Sep 15th, 2009, 12:36 PM
you know RVD,one thing that in the past week has become clear, there is so much ingrained racism that it really is shocking.

three things happen
1- an athlete looses their temper on the court and behaves in an unacceptable way.
2- a crazy musician does something crazy at an awards show
3- the president of the United states gets heckled before a joint session.

one is ignored, one is called a dick, and one is vilified and people demand the harshest punish allowed by law.

it should be CLEAR which is which, but there is so much, so deeply ingrained race-hate that even something as clear cut as this gets thrown completely out of whack.

Wigglytuff
Sep 15th, 2009, 12:48 PM
on the point with the study done with the dolls, i think there are two problems:

1. the children think that white is better because it is what is portrayed in the media...it is made no better when they see blacks going to every length to look white with the bleaching of the skin, the constant weave because you can't be seen with your natural hair etc...it's one thing i dislike about both ws, but i always see the way posters here always beg them to put in new weave etc because they look "a hot mess"...and the argument about managing natural hair being harder than just weave: false hair tends to smell a lot quicker than your natural hair, and it's not like they are putting on minor extensions - check venus' wig last us open and tell me that was easier to manage than her shorter thinner natural hair...

BUT!!!

2. the doll makers ALWAYS make black dolls looking very ugly...the black barbie for instance is usually stuck in colours that do NOT suit the very dark skin they insist on giving it...so it's really no wonder any child with eyes knows that it's not made to look pretty...one therefore has to ask: do the makers intend to make them ugly??


you are completely correct!!!

in my 28 (29 as of tomorrow) years of life i have seen ONE black doll that actually looks human and attractive. and i have actually seen WHITE kids willing seek out this doll.

http://store.americangirl.com/images/ADHY_main_3.jpg
but otherwise they look just as you describe:
http://www.liveandlearn.com/petitcollin/blackbabiespinkblue.jpg

p.s. i was scared to do a google images search for black dolls, i was kinda afraid of what i would.