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usher3103
Sep 4th, 2009, 11:58 AM
Why the hell is Andy Murray discussing the Williams Sisters. They have won multiple grand slams this season, singles and doubles. maybe when he wins a few he can pass judgement but until then. Shut up. He only got number 2 but Nadal not playing Wimbledon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/6135367/US-Open-2009-Andy-Murray-questions-commitment-of-Williams-sisters.html

Miss Atomic Bomb
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:01 PM
Ofcourse Haggis will say that, he is in the same slamless boat as Safina.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Its pretty clear why Murray would defend Safina- he was pretty close to finding himself in the same situation. That said, I dont think what he said was totally unreasonable.

Dini.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:03 PM
Serena's consistency at the non slams tournament is not great. I don't think Murray said anything wrong there to be honest - more like stating the obvious. :shrug: Having said that, I think Federer or Nadal would be in a better position to talk about that, because they're the slam winners and number 1's and they really know what it's all about: Great consistency at the majors and also great consistency at the smaller events.

I wish Serena would do better in non majors so that this wouldn't even be a talking point.

A tennis season is not just 8 weeks a year.

Kworb
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:03 PM
I hate Andy Murray as much as I hate Ana Ivanovic but I agree with him, if the rankings don't count the non-Slams then the entire tour becomes irrelevant. These lesser tournaments do need some status within the sport to attract viewers. And they need the best players to show up with their best tennis.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:05 PM
Plus the WTA doesnt want to weight all importance on the ITF events. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot :lol:

Miss Atomic Bomb
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:06 PM
Serena's consistency at the non slams tournament is not great. I don't think Murray said anything wrong there to be honest - more like stating the obvious. :shrug: Having said that, I'd think Federer or Nadal would be in a better position to talk about that, because they're the slam winners and number 1's and they really know what it's all about: Great consistency at the majors and also great consistency at the smaller events.

I wish Serena would do better in non majors so that this wouldn't even be a talking point.

Federer has already expressed his opinion about slamless number 1s.

Ferg
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:06 PM
I hate Andy Murray but hes right. :shrug: Hes basically repeating what the majoirty of TF say about their consistency.

jade001
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:06 PM
I hate Andy Murray as much as I hate Ana Ivanovic but I agree with him, if the rankings don't count the non-Slams then the entire tour becomes irrelevant. These lesser tournaments do need some status within the sport to attract viewers. And they need the best players to show up with their best tennis.

Agreed.

is1531
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:08 PM
I agree with Andy Murray. Their is nothing wrong with his statement.

Dini.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Federer has already expressed his opinion about slamless number 1s.

:lol:

Tennisstar86
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Murray still doesnt know what hes talking about.... maybe he doesnt follow the history of his sport, but there have been men players ranked #1 without winning a slam and just last year. Nadal held more slams than Federer and still wasnt number 1... Had Federer not stunk up the summer hardcourt season, Nadal might not have gotten to #1....

Dini.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Murray still doesnt know what hes talking about.... maybe he doesnt follow the history of his sport, but there have been men players ranked #1 without winning a slam and just last year. Nadal held more slams than Federer and still wasnt number 1... Had Federer not stunk up the summer hardcourt season, Nadal might not have gotten to #1....

Rios is the only guy on the ATP who got to number 1/stayed at number 1 without a slam.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The reason Nadal hadn't got to number 1 as soon as he won Wimbledon was because Federer had a huge cushion and a huge lead before the start of the year. To be honest your comparison is quite laughable.

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:12 PM
Of course he's right.

And this argument "more titles = more right to an opinion" is complete bollocks. So nobody must say anything even remotely critical about Serena or Roger because they have the most slams of the players at the moment? What the hell is that?

The guy took a perfectly reasonable line in response to Overrends remark that the rankings should be weighted even more in favour of the slams - that if you do that, the tours suffer because what's the point playing all these smaller events.

Most players cannot support themselves financially just off their slam earnings apart from those lucky few who are that good that consistently. The two tours are what make it possible for a lot of these players to play as a profession and if you make them completely irrelevant then you don't get the big players playing the events, you don't get the sponsorships or the bums on seats, so you make it increasingly unviable for people to make it as professional tennis players. You discourage young players from trying to make it, or sticking with it if it's a struggle early on, and eventually you hurt the slams by reducing the talent pool available to play at these events.

Inktrailer
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:13 PM
He's perfectly right in what he's saying, another non-issue on Tennis Forum.

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:13 PM
Murray still doesnt know what hes talking about.... maybe he doesnt follow the history of his sport, but there have been men players ranked #1 without winning a slam and just last year. Nadal held more slams than Federer and still wasnt number 1... Had Federer not stunk up the summer hardcourt season, Nadal might not have gotten to #1....
Nadal was #1 from the Olympics and ended last year as #1 after winning 2 slams to Federer's 1. There was never any real doubt that Nadal would get to #1 once he won 2 slams that year.

Only Rios thus far has been #1 and never won a slam.

Dini.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Of course he's right.

And this argument "more titles = more right to an opinion" is complete bollocks. So nobody must say anything even remotely critical about Serena or Roger because they have the most slams of the players at the moment? What the hell is that?

I think what Murray said was perfectly reasonable, but I just think that such an opinion would have been stronger had it come from a guy who's been there and done that (i.e won a slam(s) and gotten to number 1). I think experience matters in such discussions. :shrug:

Vaidisova Ruled
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:19 PM
Well he is right. If serena was winning tournaments outside of the slams, Safina wouldn't be #1.

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:21 PM
Well he is right. If serena was winning tournaments outside of the slams, Safina wouldn't be #1.
or not even that - just getting to the back end of a couple of them - semis, finals, would have been enough. It's not like the WTA is demanding she play and win an additional 8 events to the slams in order to get to #1 - Serena has had many opportunities to get back to #1 over the course of the season and has failed to do so - sometimes apparently due to injury and at others just from poor play.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:24 PM
I hope Murray ends this slamless business in New York next week. As for Safina, I wouldnt be devastated to see her win - but only if its a good performance from her in the final and not a mental collapse from her opponent.

Tennisstar86
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:24 PM
Nadal was #1 from the Olympics and ended last year as #1 after winning 2 slams to Federer's 1.

Only Rios thus far has been #1 and never won a slam.

I meant just last year Nadal was #2 with French Open/ Wimbledon.......Federer had the US Open still on his ranking and had Federer not stunk up the court in the summer, Nadal might not have gotten to #1 because the Federer still had a decent lead, but instead that Summer he made the 2nd round, the 3rd round and a quarter of the tournaments he played.....

So no, Murrays comment that "this doesnt happen on the atp tour, because the players who win the most slams do the best in all the tournament" is not true....

Caralenko
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Didn't Roger have mononucleosis last year? :scratch:

Dini.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:28 PM
I meant just last year Nadal was #2 with French Open/ Wimbledon.......Federer had the US Open still on his ranking and had Federer not stunk up the court in the summer, Nadal might not have gotten to #1 because the Federer still had a decent lead, but instead that Summer he made the 2nd round, the 3rd round and a quarter of the tournaments he played.....

So no, Murrays comment that "this doesnt happen on the atp tour, because the players who win the most slams do the best in all the tournament" is not true....

Erm what you on about? Federer made the finals of Monte Carlo and Hamburg, semis of Indian Wells and Madrid. Won Estoril, Basel and Halle and those are NOT big titles. He did pretty consistent in the smaller events minus the wimbledon to US open gap.

It's not a great set of results but it's better than what Serena managed at the smaller events so far this year. :shrug:

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:28 PM
I meant just last year Nadal was #2 with French Open/ Wimbledon.......Federer had the US Open still on his ranking and had Federer not stunk up the court in the summer, Nadal might not have gotten to #1 because the Federer still had a decent lead, but instead that Summer he made the 2nd round, the 3rd round and a quarter of the tournaments he played.....

So no, Murrays comment that "this doesnt happen on the atp tour, because the players who win the most slams do the best in all the tournament" is not true....
You're talking totally hypothetically because it didn't happen, Nadal *did* get to #1 with the most slams. Yes it *might* not have happened but we can invent scenarios like that all day long - the fact is, Nadal won 2 slams last year and took over the #1 ranking before the US Open.

Andy didn't say it could *never* happen - what he said was that most of the time the rankings system, at least on the mens side, works well enough and these scenarios don't occur - it would be an odd year when someone won the most slams and didn't get to #1 and it would have to mean they played poorly, or not at all, in a number of the tour events while the #1 did exceptionally well at those and pretty well at the slams.

Serena *might* have won Charleston, Marbella, Stanford and Toronto and then there would be nothing at all to talk about here. Didn't happen.

hablo
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:35 PM
I don't like Murray but at the same time I see nothing wrong in his comments.

Even Mauresmo defended Safina by saying blame the ranking system... If you give the slams too many points to reward those who only show up for those, what's the point of having other big tournaments such as Miami, Indian Wells, for instance? Along with the other smaller tournaments, for that matter? :shrug:

Daniel K
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:35 PM
He's right why are fans so defensive?

2moretogo
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:38 PM
Murray should have stayed out of it. I mean seriously, Dinara isn't necessarily dominating the tour, especially the top-10. She has 3 titles this year? (Rome, Madrid, Potoroz (tee hee hee). To Serena's 2? I mean really. I don't care how many finals you have been in, when has the tour become about anything but winning? Sad, sad, day when the best way to describe the #1 ranked player is that she's consistent, rather than that she's a tried and true Champion.

wayitis
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:41 PM
Who the Hell is Usher3103 To Talk. :confused:

Why the hell is Usher3103 discussing the Williams Sisters. They have won multiple grand slams this season, singles and doubles. maybe when he/she wins a few he/she can pass judgement but until then. Shut up. He/She only got number 2... oops :tape: :tape:

so according to this beautiful logic, let's close down all tennis message boards because only Federer and Nadal can comment on the Williams sisters

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:42 PM
Who the Hell is Usher3103 To Talk. :confused:

Why the hell is Usher3103 discussing the Williams Sisters. They have won multiple grand slams this season, singles and doubles. maybe when he/she wins a few he/she can pass judgement but until then. Shut up. He/She only got number 2... oops :tape: :tape:

so according to this beautiful logic, let's close down all tennis message boards because only Federer and Nadal can comment on the Williams sisters
bingo.

Kipling
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:42 PM
Murray's right. And oh, by the way, computer rankings, and the debate over them, have been around far far longer than the sisters, and if Serena has a problem with them, then the answer is pretty clear--maybe she ought to play more, just like every other player out there who achieves and has achieved the no.1 ranking.

You know, sometimes, when you have so many confrontations with authority, maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't them--it's you. She frequently claims she isn't respected by the sport and its establishment. Maybe she ought to try respecting the sport before crying foul at every little thing she perceives as implicit racism.

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:43 PM
Murray should have stayed out of it. I mean seriously, Dinara isn't necessarily dominating the tour, especially the top-10. She has 3 titles this year? (Rome, Madrid, Potoroz (tee hee hee). To Serena's 2? I mean really. I don't care how many finals you have been in, when has the tour become about anything but winning? Sad, sad, day when the best way to describe the #1 ranked player is that she's consistent, rather than that she's a tried and true Champion.
Yeah, I mean, when you're participating in a radio talk show with Anne Keothavong, Ross Hutchins and some presenters and they start to discuss the rankings situations, I guess the players should all just go silent in case their words get spun by the Telegraph and inflame a bunch of tennis forum posters.

Maybe someone should chase them with pitchforks.

scoobsuk
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:48 PM
My personal opinion is that Serena Williams doesn't really give 2 hoots for the WTA tour or any of the events on it with the possible exception of Miami. She made her contempt for the events like Rome and Madrid quite clear in her criticisms of Safina - I can't believe that someone who would be so mocking of winning those events is seriously motivated to win them herself.

In an ideal world, I suspect Serena would do nothing more than play at the Slams and Miami and the odd other event here and there, but to get a seeding and automatic entry she has to pay lip service to the tour and its rules and the rankings.

That doesn't mean the ranking system should be so skewed to the slams that those who do well there and do nothing anywhere else though should automatically be ranked #1.

JadeFox
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:49 PM
Yeah, I mean, when you're participating in a radio talk show with Anne Keothavong, Ross Hutchins and some presenters and they start to discuss the rankings situations, I guess the players should all just go silent in case their words get spun by the Telegraph and inflame a bunch of tennis forum posters.

Maybe someone should chase them with pitchforks.

Forget pitchforks, I'd chase him with a paddle just to spank that ass. :devil:


But in all seriousness though, he's right. Rankings should be about consistency first and foremost. And I'm sick of people acting so angry with Dinara for being number one. Really you would think that she became number one by robbing someone at gunpoint with the way some people bitch and moan. :rolleyes:

Singleniacki
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:49 PM
I hate Andy Murray as much as I hate Ana Ivanovic but I agree with him, if the rankings don't count the non-Slams then the entire tour becomes irrelevant. These lesser tournaments do need some status within the sport to attract viewers. And they need the best players to show up with their best tennis.

I love you so much

These are my exact thoughts!!

mc8114
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Agreed with Andy.

Dave.
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:54 PM
There is nothing untrue about what Murray said. He, like anyone else, can have any opinion he wants and talk about anything he wants, regardless of his accomplishments (:weirdo:). This wouldn't be any different coming from Federer. Stupid thread title.


Plus the WTA doesnt want to weight all importance on the ITF events. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot :lol:

Slams are ITF events and they are given the most importance. :confused:

I hope Murray ends this slamless business in New York next week. As for Safina, I wouldnt be devastated to see her win - but only if its a good performance from her in the final and not a mental collapse from her opponent.

Same, just so we can get rid of the no slam in 70+ years thing. :lol:

serenafan08
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:56 PM
This has already been harped on, so there really was no need for him to join in. Plus it's no surprise he supports Safina, since he could very well be in the same boat if he doesn't win this tournament but still gets to #1. :lol:

Monica_Rules
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:56 PM
I think what he says is pretty reasonable. Hes defending Safina and giving an explanation for why Serena isn't number 1. He was slagging them off. get over youself.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:59 PM
There is nothing untrue about what Murray said. He, like anyone else, can have any opinion he wants and talk about anything he wants, regardless of his accomplishments (:weirdo:). This wouldn't be any different coming from Federer. Stupid thread title.




Slams are ITF events and they are given the most importance. :confused:



Same, just so we can get rid of the no slam in 70+ years thing. :lol:

I said ALL importance - eg 3000 points for a slam etc. Basically if the slam events hold enough points to be number 1 with a virtual no show in the WTA events, it would be hugely undermining for the WTA as a whole, thats all.

RYNJ
Sep 4th, 2009, 12:59 PM
I hope Murray becomes #1 and not winning a slam. SO both the ATP and WTA will have slamless #1's. I just want to see what the media will come up with hahaha

Dave.
Sep 4th, 2009, 01:20 PM
I said ALL importance - eg 3000 points for a slam etc. Basically if the slam events hold enough points to be number 1 with a virtual no show in the WTA events, it would be hugely undermining for the WTA as a whole, thats all.

And rightly so. :shrug:

It would also make a mockery of the rankings and we'd probably end up with the wrong player at no.1.

brickhousesupporter
Sep 4th, 2009, 01:28 PM
And rightly so. :shrug:

It would also make a mockery of the rankings and we'd probably end up with the wrong player at no.1.
How is it any different right now......Everyone thinks the rankings is a sham right now.....including journalists. I think Dinara deserves the rankings based on the criteria for the rankings, but it does not stop people from thinking other players are better.

Dave.
Sep 4th, 2009, 01:46 PM
How is it any different right now......Everyone thinks the rankings is a sham right now.....including journalists. I think Dinara deserves the rankings based on the criteria for the rankings, but it does not stop people from thinking other players are better.

I think most of the people who think the rankings are a sham do so only because the no.1 player right now happens to be slamless, that's all. There's nothing wrong with this system IMO, it's just a weird situation we have between Safina and Serena. Certainly this system is more fair and accurate than one which would only take the slams into account, surely anyone can see that.

slamchamp
Sep 4th, 2009, 01:47 PM
murray is completly right, why are you complaining?:weirdo:

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 4th, 2009, 01:50 PM
Lord have mercy! I came in here half expecting to have to put the oliviasmith curse on this man. But I agree with him for the most part.:shrug:

The topic is so played out though.

StephenUK
Sep 4th, 2009, 02:52 PM
I totally agree with Andy Murray. I don't think it's fair to blame the rankings and Safina for Safina being number one, when all Serena has to do is win a couple of Premier events and she would probably be number one, but it seems beyond her.

Kim's_fan_4ever
Sep 4th, 2009, 03:01 PM
Who the Hell is Usher3103 To Talk. :confused:

Why the hell is Usher3103 discussing the Williams Sisters. They have won multiple grand slams this season, singles and doubles. maybe when he/she wins a few he/she can pass judgement but until then. Shut up. He/She only got number 2... oops :tape: :tape:

so according to this beautiful logic, let's close down all tennis message boards because only Federer and Nadal can comment on the Williams sisters

This.
He gave his opinion on the matter, which in addition happens to be pretty damn reasonable and a lot of people on TF think the same.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 03:16 PM
lol at some posters saying murray shouldn't have an opinion because he hasn't won a slam, because said posters are multiple slam winners themselves obviously.

he's right, anyone trying to say he shouldn't have an opinion is just hiding behind that rather than admitting he is right.

Talula
Sep 4th, 2009, 03:59 PM
I'm not a Murray fan, but what he has said is basically what most people on here have been saying! And it's true! It's not a criticism of Serena, it's a fact!

Black Mamba.
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Murray is right but Safina has to take some ownership for the heat she's taking over the rankings. Just like Serena could do better in non majors Safina could stop acting like a mental wreck every time she gets in the slams and she could also stop folding like a house of cards when she gets to the Semis or the Finals.

SharapovaFTW
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:18 PM
So Murray gets asked a question and gives an honest answer? Why is this thread worthy? Some of you have got to change those tampons. Seriously.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Well he is right. If serena was winning tournaments outside of the slams, Safina wouldn't be #1.

She could've won Miami and Dubai and still would be number two.

AkademiQ
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Murray is right but Safina has to take some ownership for the heat she's taking over the rankings. Just like Serena could do better in non majors Safina could stop acting like a mental wreck every time she gets in the slams and she could also stop folding like a house of cards when she gets to the Semis or the Finals.

Serena and Dinara. Both provide the perfect storm for more months of the same talk about the #1 ranking. Neither not willing to do what they need to do to solidify #1 and stop the talk :lol:

gmokb
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Folks need to suck it up and just leave Serena the hell alone. Slams are what people are remembered for not no damn #1 ranking.:mad: Ask any tennis player which she rather and I am 100% sure she would opt for the slams over the #1 position. Anyone that say differently, including Safina, is sher stinking head off.:mad:

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Murray is also guilty of presenting the straw man so often used on this board.

Of course there has to be a balance between slams and the regular events. The only disagreement is how much emphasis should be placed on the slams relative to the rest of the tour events. It's not a question of "we think slam winners should automatically be number one."

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:35 PM
My personal opinion is that Serena Williams doesn't really give 2 hoots for the WTA tour or any of the events on it with the possible exception of Miami. She made her contempt for the events like Rome and Madrid quite clear in her criticisms of Safina - I can't believe that someone who would be so mocking of winning those events is seriously motivated to win them herself.

In an ideal world, I suspect Serena would do nothing more than play at the Slams and Miami and the odd other event here and there, but to get a seeding and automatic entry she has to pay lip service to the tour and its rules and the rankings.

That doesn't mean the ranking system should be so skewed to the slams that those who do well there and do nothing anywhere else though should automatically be ranked #1.

Who suggested it should?

Patrick345
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Outside of Planet Williams the vote is unanimous. We hate him, but he´s right. Next topic.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:43 PM
Murray has every right to talk - at least he is regularly beating the best players in MS events to get his ranking to where it is. If Serena wants the #1 she can fight for it. IMO she has assesed the situation and chose the best solution that gets her the most of what she wants.

Haters cant stand that she isnt winning MM events. Y'all should be grateful that shes leaving enough behind for ur faves to keep paying their bills. :rolleyes:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:46 PM
it's amazing that when Federer slammed the "slamless #1" thing and said a #1 MUST have a slam, all these people in here talking about how murray is right were quick to say Federer should pay attention to his own tour and leave the wta....now that murray says what you agree with, he doesn't need to pay attention to his own tour, but he's now right :lol: amazing...


and for all you people griping over "serena doesn't play well outside of tour events so she doesn't deserve to be #1!!!11!!!1111" :weirdo: serena could have won all the events at the beginning of the year but would have STILL lost #1...dinara had NOTHING to defend up until berlin...how many times must it be said....now can we leave this alone...serena said she likes being #2 and winning majors...safina can keep her #1...

CloudAtlas
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Does this even warrant a bloody thread?

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:49 PM
Does this even warrant a bloody thread?

Five pages long, I'd say it does.

fufuqifuqishahah
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:50 PM
Serena should have just won one or two more of these big tournaments early in the year and there wouldn't be this issue x_x

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:50 PM
As much as I loathe that fat hag Serena, I really don't see what the fuss is about. She had a very poor clay court season this year - big deal.

If anything Safina should be thanking Serena for being such a loser at non-slam events, because she wouldn't be number 1 otherwise. As others have said it's pretty much a non-issue that's been exaggerated by the press and fans.

The one thing I don't get is Serena's attitude towards the situation though. She is the LAST person who should be making snide comments, like 'She won Rome and Madrid......' Yes Bitch, and you lost in the first round in Rome and Madrid. Go eat some more pies and stfu.

CloudAtlas
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:52 PM
Five pages long, I'd say it does.



Mention Serena , Safina and the ranking system and the thread is pretty much guaranteed that many pages , that doesn't mean anything meaningful is being discussed. It just means people like repeating the same crap over and over again.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:54 PM
Mention Serena , Safina and the ranking system and the thread is pretty much guaranteed that many pages , that doesn't mean anything meaningful is being discussed. It just means people like repeating the same crap over and over again.

"Meaningful" means different things to different people. As a guy, I thought the "hoeest tennis bf" thread was idiotic to the extreme, but I didn't question the validity of its existence, because people wanted to talk about it.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:56 PM
She could've won Miami and Dubai and still would be number two.

well those were 2 tournaments she actually did well/ok in so going futher would have only given her a certain amount of extra points. how about she won madrid, rome and toronto where she bombed out early so therefore gained nothing from the tournaments.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:58 PM
and when she won those and still not got to #1 what then?? :lol:

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:59 PM
As much as I loathe that fat hag Serena, I really don't see what the fuss is about. She had a very poor clay court season this year - big deal.

If anything Safina should be thanking Serena for being such a loser at non-slam events, because she wouldn't be number 1 otherwise. As others have said it's pretty much a non-issue that's been exaggerated by the press and fans.

The one thing I don't get is Serena's attitude towards the situation though. She is the LAST person who should be making snide comments, like 'She won Rome and Madrid......' Yes Bitch, and you lost in the first round in Rome and Madrid. Go eat some more pies and stfu.

i hope your fellow fans reprimand you when you talk about your fave's little sister that way...

CloudAtlas
Sep 4th, 2009, 04:59 PM
"Meaningful" means different things to different people. As a guy, I thought the "hoeest tennis bf" thread was idiotic to the extreme, but I didn't question the validity of its existence, because people wanted to talk about it.



True , but I hadn't seen a thread like that on here before , whereas this whole BS about consistency , non Slams , laziness and the #1 ranking is regurgitated on this forum at least 6 times a week and this time it's started off over an small off-hand comment that a player made when questioned about the issue. And everything said on this thread has been said before , hundreds of times. If repeating the same stuff over and over again , entering the same petty arguments , making the same moot points where no-one comes out convinced of the other's point of view by the end of it is meaningful then wow.

Tanja8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:01 PM
Who says that WTA ranking is not good? All this quarrel about it just brings more publicity to the WTA and tennis.
Sad, but true.
It`s like BigBrother. Who wants 10 nice, polite people there? Nobody. People want to see fight, controversy, quarrel ...
Who wants nice sportist, working hard and doing their job only? Let`s talk about their boyfriends, big thighs, pictures in swimming dresses, and let`s try to put in their mouth something controversial, let`s arrange some conflicts ...
And tennis gets more publicity, more sponsors etc. :spit:

When it seems people forgot about all this Dinara-Serena thing and who the real number one is, they just throw us another article or another Safin, Murray, ..... statement about it.
People are sheeps ... one just has to guide them and they will do what you want.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:03 PM
well those were 2 tournaments she actually did well/ok in so going futher would have only given her a certain amount of extra points. how about she won madrid, rome and toronto where she bombed out early so therefore gained nothing from the tournaments.

AnnaK did the math before, but she could've won Charleston, which she didn't player, on top of all those, and still be number two.


It's very simple: You either think matches played and won is more important than the quality of the win, or you think the opposite.

A slim majority of the board (and Murray) apparently), seems to be of the opinion that enough semis, enough finals, enough titles at smalelr events, is enough to overtake 3 slam titles-- and that's OK.

But you also need to realize that a great deal of people not on this board; I'd argue the majority actually-- think that winning slams should have a great deal more importance in the rankings than they currently do.

If you're OK with the status quo, then fine. But you should be expected to defend the status quo when it's atatcked.

KournikovaFan91
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:04 PM
I would nearly love if he became a slamless Number One and then you would see the British Press change their tune about slamless number ones :rolleyes:

harloo
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:04 PM
I hope Murray becomes #1 and not winning a slam. SO both the ATP and WTA will have slamless #1's. I just want to see what the media will come up with hahaha
:lol:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Federer spoke out during a more insecure time, where he was under a lot more threat, if I am correct in remembering!? Thats why he drew a lot of criticism.

CR3WLFC
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:08 PM
There is a possibilty for murray to go #1. he doesn't want people to talk about the slamless #1 player when he gets there.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:14 PM
AnnaK did the math before, but she could've won Charleston, which she didn't player, on top of all those, and still be number two.


It's very simple: You either think matches played and won is more important than the quality of the win, or you think the opposite.

A slim majority of the board (and Murray) apparently), seems to be of the opinion that enough semis, enough finals, enough titles at smalelr events, is enough to overtake 3 slam titles-- and that's OK.

But you also need to realize that a great deal of people not on this board; I'd argue the majority actually-- think that winning slams should have a great deal more importance in the rankings than they currently do.

If you're OK with the status quo, then fine. But you should be expected to defend the status quo when it's atatcked.

these people who aren't fans enough to post on boards are probably caual fans who couldn't even name a tournament outside of the grand slams, let alone attended one. are these the type of people the WTA want to be pleasing, is giving people not in an educated position on tennis and its structer what they want a good thing. how does it in any way help the WTA if serena was #1 being so crap at WTA tournaments. it just makes the WTA events look meaningless and as a fan i know they aren't.

canuckfan
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:14 PM
AnnaK did the math before, but she could've won Charleston, which she didn't player, on top of all those, and still be number two.


It's very simple: You either think matches played and won is more important than the quality of the win, or you think the opposite.

A slim majority of the board (and Murray) apparently), seems to be of the opinion that enough semis, enough finals, enough titles at smalelr events, is enough to overtake 3 slam titles-- and that's OK.

But you also need to realize that a great deal of people not on this board; I'd argue the majority actually-- think that winning slams should have a great deal more importance in the rankings than they currently do.

If you're OK with the status quo, then fine. But you should be expected to defend the status quo when it's atatcked.


If it's enough to overtake 6000 points, why not?

The slams are already worth twice the points of the next biggest tournament. Anymore than that the rest of the tour would be completely useless.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:17 PM
these people who aren't fans enough to post on boards are probably caual fans who couldn't even name a tournament outside of the grand slams, let alone attended one. are these the type of people the WTA want to be pleasing, is giving people not in an educated position on tennis and its structer what they want a good thing. how does it in any way help the WTA if serena was #1 being so crap at WTA tournaments. it just makes the WTA events look meaningless and as a fan i know they aren't.

The Talk Tennis forum (which is usually very anti-Serena) is extremely critical of Safina and her ranking. Not every board is like this one.

Forums aside, a poll done on the US Open website showed that 75% of the peopled polled thought Safina was unworthy of her ranking.

Lemme guess: They're all Serena fans and Safina haters?

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:19 PM
If it's enough to overtake 6000 points, why not?

The slams are already worth twice the points of the next biggest tournament. Anymore than that the rest of the tour would be completely useless.

People disagree with you. Hence, the criticism.

To paint all criticism of the ranking system as fanaticism (like people here often do) is the ultimate cop out.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:20 PM
The Talk Tennis forum (which is usually very anti-Serena) is extremely critical of Safina and her ranking. Not every board is like this one.

Forums aside, a poll done on the US Open website showed that 75% of the peopled polled thought Safina was unworthy of her ranking.

Lemme guess: They're all Serena fans and Safina haters?

Yes they are!! They also steal children and kneecap pensioners!11!!!!11!

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:22 PM
that's what a whole lot of people here are doing....as aces said...the only people who want serena as #1 are serena fans

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:25 PM
that's what a whole lot of people here are doing....as aces said...the only people who want serena as #1 are serena fans

Well that speaks for itself, who else would? Non-Serena fans would innevitable indifferent at best?

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:26 PM
The Talk Tennis forum (which is usually very anti-Serena) is extremely critical of Safina and her ranking. Not every board is like this one.

Forums aside, a poll done on the US Open website showed that 75% of the peopled polled thought Safina was unworthy of her ranking.

Lemme guess: They're all Serena fans and Safina haters?

im willing to bet 75% of the people visiting the us open website this fortnight are casual fans at best, and know very little about tennis bar venus, serena and federer.


most people who don't know tennis rate and rank players on how well they know the players, not how good they are and what they have achieved in the last year (which is what the rankings do).

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:29 PM
really??? that's another cop out sammy :lol: so either:

you don't like safina at #1 because you are a serena fan who wants serena at #1....

OR

you don't like safina at #1 because you don't know anything about tennis....

:roll: the excuses keep getting better

and btw...do you think casual fans at best will be spending time visiting the us open website just to vote of if safina is worthy of her #1 ranking lol

canuckfan
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:31 PM
People disagree with you. Hence, the criticism.

To paint all criticism of the ranking system as fanaticism (like people here often do) is the ultimate cop out.

Do you really think the people voting in the ESPN poll took the time to look at the ranking system or Safina's results during the last year?

Sure you could give 4000-5000 points to the slam winners to please the casual crowd too dumb to realise that the season is 11 months long. The Australian Open winner would stay in the top 8 all year no matter how much she sucks the rest of the year. Yeah I guess it makes more sense than the actual system...

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:33 PM
Do you really think the people voting in the ESPN poll took the time to look at the ranking system or Safina's results during the last year?

Sure you could give 4000-5000 point the slam winners to please the casual crowd too dumb to realise that the season is 11 months long. The Australian Open winner would stay in the top 8 all year no matter how much she sucks the rest of the year. Yeah I guess it makes more sense than the actual system...

Poor use of hyperbole to express a weak point.

If the slams are so less unimportant than tournies, why is the 8th spot into the YEC available to a slam winner who didnt otherwise qualify and not someone who has done well in WTA events :scratch:

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:37 PM
im willing to bet 75% of the people visiting the us open website this fortnight are casual fans at best, and know very little about tennis bar venus, serena and federer.


most people who don't know tennis rate and rank players on how well they know the players, not how good they are and what they have achieved in the last year (which is what the rankings do).

So only people who post on tennisforum.com know anything about tennis? Out of the entire world wide web, this is the ONLY site to which knowledgeable tennis fans flock?

Do you work for this site? This is some EPIC shilling right here.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:38 PM
No problemos..Serena said majors matter to her, doesn't care about ranking. Fine..then stop moaning about the ranks. Or start do better at the regular events.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:39 PM
very much so :lol: the excuses are funny i'll give them that

Marshmallow
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Murray's not wrong but he DID NOT HAVE TO and SHOULD NOT HAVE gone onto subjects beyond the scope of his understanding... hence should not have QUESTIONED THEIR COMMITMENT, with his catty little remarks about where they turn up. Venus turns up all over the place but it just in consistent. Serena turned up all over the place at the start of the year until the clay season. Sydney, Paris, Dubai... she turned up and played to win but she got injured... injured and pulled out of Paris, injured and beaten in Dubai. Made finals of Miami and should have won but was hampered by injury. Serena's clay court season was hampered by Injury. The exception is maybe Rome because Patty really came out for blood that day and it was cold which doesn't help injuries etc but Serena hindered by some circumstances out of her control.

She had a couple of bad hardcourt tournaments but did well in Toronto with a semi-final.

I think it's insulting considering all this to ask question about commitment and where Serena turns up. He's right to defend the ranking system but beyond that he ought to keep his jaws shut. It's not about Serena not caring it's more complex than that.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Do you really think the people voting in the ESPN poll took the time to look at the ranking system or Safina's results during the last year?

Sure you could give 4000-5000 points to the slam winners to please the casual crowd too dumb to realise that the season is 11 months long. The Australian Open winner would stay in the top 8 all year no matter how much she sucks the rest of the year. Yeah I guess it makes more sense than the actual system...

So everyone who hates the ranking system is either a biased Serenatard or is clueless about tennis.

I follow a lot of sports (as evidenced by my sig), and tennis is the only sport where I see this type of attitude; the sentiment that unless you watch sports obsessively, you are not fit to give your opinion. It reeks of elitism.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:43 PM
No problemos..Serena said majors matter to her, doesn't care about ranking. Fine..then stop moaning about the ranks. Or start do better at the regular events.

serena's not moaning about the ranking....:shrug:

honest question: do you think if serena realllly wanted back the #1 rank that she would have done whatever she could have to win regular tour titles?? this is the woman who almost everyone agrees that she could win whatever she wants to put her mind to...bar her injury riddled clay season, serena knowing the #1 rank was up for grabs during the summer, why didn't she put her all into those tournaments to regain the ranking???

or do we finally believe serena when she says "i just want to win majors"

Marshmallow
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:45 PM
And it's not just Serena fans who want Serena to be number one, the WTA as a whole and everyone who cares about women's tennis should. Serena is the best player out there - yes it's her own doing to a point that she isn't number one - but Serena as number one adds respectability to the game and perceptions of it. We all want that don't we?

It's nt Safina's fault but ... goodness me she's such an embarrassment. He hideous game, her inhumane noises, obscene movement and posture. Okay so you might not agree with there but I think it's in Safina's best interests also that she lose the number one ranking. So she can relax on court and develop her game and accomplishments healthily.

Everyone should WANT Serena to be number one, for the sake of the WTA and all that is good in the world!!!!

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:47 PM
marsh :rolls:

Marshmallow
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:49 PM
Murray's right. And oh, by the way, computer rankings, and the debate over them, have been around far far longer than the sisters, and if Serena has a problem with them, then the answer is pretty clear--maybe she ought to play more, just like every other player out there who achieves and has achieved the no.1 ranking.

You know, sometimes, when you have so many confrontations with authority, maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't them--it's you. She frequently claims she isn't respected by the sport and its establishment. Maybe she ought to try respecting the sport before crying foul at every little thing she perceives as implicit racism.

And what is THIS all about?

Marshmallow
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:50 PM
marsh :rolls:

:lol: I'm passionate about the WTA :p :wavey:

CloudAtlas
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:54 PM
And it's not just Serena fans who want Serena to be number one, the WTA as a whole and everyone who cares about women's tennis should. Serena is the best player out there - yes it's her own doing to a point that she isn't number one - but Serena as number one adds respectability to the game and perceptions of it. We all want that don't we?

It's nt Safina's fault but ... goodness me she's such an embarrassment. He hideous game, her inhumane noises, obscene movement and posture. Okay so you might not agree with there but I think it's in Safina's best interests also that she lose the number one ranking. So she can relax on court and develop her game and accomplishments healthily.

Everyone should WANT Serena to be number one, for the sake of the WTA and all that is good in the world!!!!



Not really , Safina embarrases the WTA in Slam finals and sometimes in the matches before , Serena embarrases the WTA by losing early in almost every tournament outside it.

Yeah more people watch Slams but people aren't gonna stop slamming the WTA just because Serena is #1. They'll just say something negative about her , e.g she hasn't won a tour title in 17 months.

Joe.
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:55 PM
on this occasion, murray is just saying the truth :tape:
can any serena fan actually say serena is committed to the tour? she gets beaten by players like bammer, and then as soon as she gets to a grand slam she plays like a goddess. its so obvious that she has been tanking and in my opinion, if she is going to tank then she just shouldnt play. she is making a mockery of womans tennis:rolleyes:

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:56 PM
So only people who post on tennisforum.com know anything about tennis? Out of the entire world wide web, this is the ONLY site to which knowledgeable tennis fans flock?

Do you work for this site? This is some EPIC shilling right here.

let me give you an example. i know very very little about baseball, but if you asked me who was the best team i would go for the new york yankies, because they are the most famous, the team i know for various reasons. now i have no idea if the NYY are the best team and my opinion is uneducated on the subject, but interms of exposure they are head and shoulders above the rest. i don't have time to go into looking up what they have achieved compared to other teams and am probabley wrong and wouldn't argue if you told me that a loyal forum on baseball said 'X' team was actually the best. i still would have voted NYY in a poll before being told otherwise.

now compare that with tennis, the most known name in womens tennis is serena williams, then her sister then maria sharapova (which i bet if you polled what marias ranking is on the us open website, 75% would think top 10 or top 5, because again without knowing a great deal about the sport the assumption has to be shes very highly ranked considering the attention she gets), safina isn't even a name most people know. im not saying everyone on tennisforum is a super knowledge on tennis, but i would value their opinion over some poll on the us open website while the open is on and thousands of casual/not aware of the ranking system people will click on to see how things are going.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 05:57 PM
Not really , Safina embarrases the WTA in Slam finals and sometimes in the matches before , Serena embarrases the WTA by losing early in almost every tournament outside it.

Yeah more people watch Slams but people aren't gonna stop slamming the WTA just because Serena is #1. They'll just say something negative about her , e.g she hasn't won a tour title in 17 months.

Not really - considering a lot of the time Serena is injured so people understand she cant always perform to the highest level. At least it would be a player people would actually want to watch. Atm i dont feel Safina is a great crowd puller.

Joe.
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:00 PM
Everyone should WANT Serena to be number one, for the sake of the WTA and all that is good in the world!!!!

why would i want a player who only cares about one WTA Tournament (MIAMI) to be wta number one?:confused:

CloudAtlas
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:05 PM
Not really - considering a lot of the time Serena is injured so people understand she cant always perform to the highest level. At least it would be a player people would actually want to watch. Atm i dont feel Safina is a great crowd puller.



Maybe , but it's more than co-incidence that she's made the finals in 4/5 of the last Grand Slams yet hasn't even gotten to a tour final other than Miami in 17 months. (I say "other than Miami" because it seems to be the tournament outside the Slam which she cares about).

Joe.
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:05 PM
right i think everyone just keeps bringing up the 'safina is not the real number one' discussion.

dinara is number one in the world for a reason.

1) She has the most ranking points which means she has played better consistantly out of ANY Player on the tour.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:05 PM
serena's not moaning about the ranking....:shrug:

honest question: do you think if serena realllly wanted back the #1 rank that she would have done whatever she could have to win regular tour titles?? this is the woman who almost everyone agrees that she could win whatever she wants to put her mind to...bar her injury riddled clay season, serena knowing the #1 rank was up for grabs during the summer, why didn't she put her all into those tournaments to regain the ranking???

or do we finally believe serena when she says "i just want to win majors"

I do believe that if Serena had to chose between winning a major become no.1 she'll choose for the major.. most of the time she got both: win the major and become no.1 at the same time.

But I think she should stop making those funny comments about the ranking, etc..

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:08 PM
let me give you an example. i know very very little about baseball, but if you asked me who was the best team i would go for the new york yankies, because they are the most famous, the team i know for various reasons. now i have no idea if the NYY are the best team and my opinion is uneducated on the subject, but interms of exposure they are head and shoulders above the rest. i don't have time to go into looking up what they have achieved compared to other teams and am probabley wrong and wouldn't argue if you told me that a loyal forum on baseball said 'X' team was actually the best. i still would have voted NYY in a poll before being told otherwise.

now compare that with tennis, the most known name in womens tennis is serena williams, then her sister then maria sharapova (which i bet if you polled what marias ranking is on the us open website, 75% would think top 10 or top 5, because again without knowing a great deal about the sport the assumption has to be shes very highly ranked considering the attention she gets), safina isn't even a name most people know. im not saying everyone on tennisforum is a super knowledge on tennis, but i would value their opinion over some poll on the us open website while the open is on and thousands of casual/not aware of the ranking system people will click on to see how things are going.

Baseball isnt an international sport like tennis. Ur point doesnt make any sense.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:09 PM
let me give you an example. i know very very little about baseball, but if you asked me who was the best team i would go for the new york yankies, because they are the most famous, the team i know for various reasons. now i have no idea if the NYY are the best team and my opinion is uneducated on the subject, but interms of exposure they are head and shoulders above the rest. i don't have time to go into looking up what they have achieved compared to other teams and am probabley wrong and wouldn't argue if you told me that a loyal forum on baseball said 'X' team was actually the best. i still would have voted NYY in a poll before being told otherwise.

now compare that with tennis, the most known name in womens tennis is serena williams, then her sister then maria sharapova (which i bet if you polled what marias ranking is on the us open website, 75% would think top 10 or top 5, because again without knowing a great deal about the sport the assumption has to be shes very highly ranked considering the attention she gets), safina isn't even a name most people know. im not saying everyone on tennisforum is a super knowledge on tennis, but i would value their opinion over some poll on the us open website while the open is on and thousands of casual/not aware of the ranking system people will click on to see how things are going.

You're talking apples and oranges. Your perception of the Yankess, in your scenario, is based off of their historical legacy; their record number of World Series wins, the famous rosters they've had over the eyars, and the exposure they get as NY's favorite team.

The perception of Serena as the best is based on her performance at slams. Anyone who's been to the US Open website has no doubt been to the WTA website. A good deal of those people have probably seen Safina's record for the year, as well as Serena's. Not only that, but they get reminded in every match that Serena's been less than stellar during most of the year-- Shriver and Mary Jo make a point to mention that every time the rankings are brought up. So it's not like these people are only aware of Serena and the four slams.

BTW: Your example wasn't that great; the Yankees currently are the best team in baseball for the season, by a significant margin.

This analogy doesn't translate well to most American sports because the team who wins the big title is always considered the best for that year, regardless of how badly they do the rest of the season.

Just to pick a team from my sig, the Giants were the best team in the regular season by a large margin, yet lost in the playoffs to the evil Eagles, a wilcard team. They'd be analogous to Safina in that respect.

Mightymirza
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:12 PM
I dont like mugray but nothign wrong in what he just said?

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I do believe that if Serena had to chose between winning a major become no.1 she'll choose for the major.. most of the time she got both: win the major and become no.1 at the same time.

But I think she should stop making those funny comments about the ranking, etc..

what comment apart from the last one at wimbledon did she make?? she made 2 comments...1 before clay season and 1 after wimbledon...both times she got asked about it...serena doesn't just get up and comment on it...so i don't get why you say serena should stop her comments

friendsita
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:15 PM
go and win a slam boy!
thennnnn talk

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:15 PM
So everyone who hates the ranking system is either a biased Serenatard or is clueless about tennis.


Pretty much, yes :shrug:


Poor use of hyperbole to express a weak point.

If the slams are so less unimportant than tournies, why is the 8th spot into the YEC available to a slam winner who didnt otherwise qualify and not someone who has done well in WTA events :scratch:


When was this YEC Wildcard ever used? :shrug:

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:17 PM
And it's not just Serena fans who want Serena to be number one, the WTA as a whole and everyone who cares about women's tennis should. Serena is the best player out there - yes it's her own doing to a point that she isn't number one - but Serena as number one adds respectability to the game and perceptions of it. We all want that don't we?

It's nt Safina's fault but ... goodness me she's such an embarrassment. He hideous game, her inhumane noises, obscene movement and posture. Okay so you might not agree with there but I think it's in Safina's best interests also that she lose the number one ranking. So she can relax on court and develop her game and accomplishments healthily.

Everyone should WANT Serena to be number one, for the sake of the WTA and all that is good in the world!!!!


Forgot to take your meds today? Oh, wait you're always like that :tape: :help:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:17 PM
Pretty much, yes :shrug:





When was this YEC Wildcard ever used? :shrug:

I dunno, its just in case the situation happens where a slam winner doesnt qualify - ie if Kim were to win the USO.

In The Zone
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:19 PM
I dunno, its just in case the situation happens where a slam winner doesnt qualify - ie if Kim were to win the USO.

This WC will never be used. Venus won Wimbledon in 2005 and did not get in.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:20 PM
You're talking apples and oranges. Your perception of the Yankess, in your scenario, is based off of their historical legacy; their record number of World Series wins, the famous rosters they've had over the eyars, and the exposure they get as NY's favorite team.

The perception of Serena as the best is based on her performance at slams. Anyone who's been to the US Open website has no doubt been to the WTA website. A good deal of those people have probably seen Safina's record for the year, as well as Serena's. Not only that, but they get reminded in every match that Serena's been less than stellar during most of the year-- Shriver and Mary Jo make a point to mention that every time the rankings are brought up. So it's not like these people are only aware of Serena and the four slams.

BTW: Your example wasn't that great; the Yankees currently are the best team in baseball for the season, by a significant margin.

This analogy doesn't translate well to most American sports because the team who wins the big title is always considered the best for that year, regardless of how badly they do.

Just to pick a team from my sig, the Giants were the best team in the regular season by a large margin, yet lost in the playoffs to the evil Eagles, a wilcard team. They'd be analogous to Safina in that respect.

well as i said baseball isn't exactly my strong point, but i assume you get my point from your response. if safina is still ranked #1 this time next year, with another year of exposure but still slamless im sure more people will vote for her (image is everything).

you as i know how the ranking system works, you may think its not fair (but im sure you weren't arguing that it was bad after last years us open when serena went back to #1, when she had very good results outside of slams to) and the system is no different from the one where serena got to #1 last year (actually its best of 16 not 17 now which favours a player that plays less tennis).

just don't hate on safina for being #1, she does the best she can in every match, even if its not good enough sometimes. im 100% sure if serena tried her best in every match she played she would be #1, but the fact that she doesn't is not safina's or the ranking systems fault.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:25 PM
well as i said baseball isn't exactly my strong point, but i assume you get my point from your response. if safina is still ranked #1 this time next year, with another year of exposure but still slamless im sure more people will vote for her (image is everything).

you as i know how the ranking system works, you may think its not fair (but im sure you weren't arguing that it was bad after last years us open when serena went back to #1, when she had very good results outside of slams to) and the system is no different from the one where serena got to #1 last year (actually its best of 16 not 17 now which favours a player that plays less tennis).

just don't hate on safina for being #1, she does the best she can in every match, even if its not good enough sometimes. im 100% sure if serena tried her best in every match she played she would be #1, but the fact that she doesn't is not safina's or the ranking systems fault.


Thats a stupid point since you know nothing about Baseball and its not even televised in the UK.......... At least fair weather fans pay attention for 2 weeks of a year, often more.

Tanja8
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:36 PM
One question for all those who think the ranking system sucks:
Is it fair that Venus is ranked 3rd when she lost 2nd round AO and 3rd round RG and Svetlana is only ranked 6th while she is actual RG champion?

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:40 PM
well as i said baseball isn't exactly my strong point, but i assume you get my point from your response. if safina is still ranked #1 this time next year, with another year of exposure but still slamless im sure more people will vote for her (image is everything).

I disagree. If anything, her credibility as number one might erode further, depending on how well the people ranked below her do.

you as i know how the ranking system works, you may think its not fair (but im sure you weren't arguing that it was bad after last years us open when serena went back to #1, when she had very good results outside of slams to) and the system is no different from the one where serena got to #1 last year (actually its best of 16 not 17 now which favours a player that plays less tennis).

just don't hate on safina for being #1, she does the best she can in every match, even if its not good enough sometimes. im 100% sure if serena tried her best in every match she played she would be #1, but the fact that she doesn't is not safina's or the ranking systems fault.

This isn't about Serena. I will repeat that ad infinitum until it sinks in. If this was Henin, or Venus, or anyone else, in Serena's place, I'd feel the same way. I have no problem admitting when my favorite athletes/teams aren't the best. Hell, the Knicks are absolutely HORRENDOUS, the the Yankees and have been the Red Sox's bitches for about five years now. I don't need to rationalize them being the best just because I like them.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:42 PM
One question for all those who think the ranking system sucks:
Is it fair that Venus is ranked 3rd when she lost 2nd round AO and 3rd round RG and Svetlana is only ranked 6th while she is actual RG champion?

Venus is YEC champ (which is horribly inflated points wise imo). This accounts for most of her lead I'd imagine. And of course Venus is Wimbledon finalist, while Kuzzie decided to bomb out early.

canuckfan
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:45 PM
I disagree. If anything, her credibility as number one might erode further, depending on how well the people ranked below her do.


This isn't about Serena. I will repeat that ad infinitum until it sinks in. If this was Henin, or Venus, or anyone else, in Serena's place, I'd feel the same way. I have no problem admitting when my favorite athletes/teams aren't the best. Hell, the Knicks are absolutely HORRENDOUS, the the Yankees and have been the Red Sox's bitches for about five years now. I don't need to rationalize them being the best just because I like them.

:lol:

Yeah right...

And you would write dozens of post on this topic if it was Henin :weirdo:

pica_pica
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:46 PM
Nothing too wrong about what he said, but that his opinion became news report is annoying. And questioning the WS while trying to win a slam in US? If this grows bigger what would the crowd think about him?

Tanja8
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Venus is YEC champ (which is horribly inflated points wise imo). This accounts for most of her lead I'd imagine. And of course Venus is Wimbledon finalist, while Kuzzie decided to bomb out early.
I know exactly why she is ranked 3rd. I`m not complaining about this.
But I also understand why Dinara is N1 and I have no problem with this fact. One doesn`t need high-school math skills to understand the system.;)

Slams are twice much worth than any other tournament. I think that is enough.

Bremen
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Murray is an ugly human being, inside and out. Not surprising that this came from him.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:51 PM
I disagree. If anything, her credibility as number one might erode further, depending on how well the people ranked below her do.



This isn't about Serena. I will repeat that ad infinitum until it sinks in. If this was Henin, or Venus, or anyone else, in Serena's place, I'd feel the same way. I have no problem admitting when my favorite athletes/teams aren't the best. Hell, the Knicks are absolutely HORRENDOUS, the the Yankees and have been the Red Sox's bitches for about five years now. I don't need to rationalize them being the best just because I like them.

well you are one of the very few. its not by chance that the biggest fuss i've ever seen over the ranking system is because its serena at #2. when clijsters and henin were juggling the top ranking and henin had the slam and clijsters didnt, there was minimal fuss over it.

same with momo and hingis in their days of #1's without slams (momo didn't even have a slam final on her ranks) the fuss was never kicked up as much as it is now. im convinced its because safina is both unnatractive looking and tennis wise (to most anyway) and its serena being deprived of the top ranking.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:52 PM
I know exactly why she is ranked 3rd. I`m not complaining about this.
But I also understand why Dinara is N1 and I have no problem with this fact. One doesn`t need high-school math skills to understand the system.;)

Slams are twice much worth than any other tournament. I think that is enough.

I think the YEC is overrated. No argument from me. I could stand to see its point value downgraded.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:53 PM
well you are one of the very few. its not by chance that the biggest fuss i've ever seen over the ranking system is because its serena at #2. when clijsters and henin were juggling the top ranking and henin had the slam and clijsters didnt, there was minimal fuss over it.

same with momo and hingis in their days of #1's without slams (momo didn't even have a slam final on her ranks) the fuss was never kicked up as much as it is now. im convinced its because safina is both unnatractive looking and tennis wise (to most anyway) and its serena being deprived of the top ranking.

I think it's because not only can she not deliver at slams, but her play for most of the year has been bad. At least when Clijsters was a slamless number one she was blowing players off the court most of the time.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:55 PM
what comment apart from the last one at wimbledon did she make?? she made 2 comments...1 before clay season and 1 after wimbledon...both times she got asked about it...serena doesn't just get up and comment on it...so i don't get why you say serena should stop her comments

I see..my point is just this: All this rankings discussion came with Serena's infamous: I'm the real no.1, jada jada stuff... just don't do that. It only gaves haters stuff to talk.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:58 PM
I think it's because not only can she not deliver at slams, but her play for most of the year has been bad. At least when Clijsters was a slamless number one she was blowing players off the court most of the time.

you mean like safina did at the french open, then bottled it in the final. clijsters was no different she could clean up in most tournaments outside the slams, but bottled it in the finals of slams. she being a nice person, and it being henin she was denying #1, was loved and most people wanted her to win a slam.

most people hate safina and want her to dissapear, when her situation is very similar to clijsters of late 2003. this is because its serena thats #2 (who has a big and very over-zealous fan base for the most part) and safina doesn't play attractive tennis.

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 06:59 PM
:lol:

Yeah right...

And you would write dozens of post on this topic if it was Henin :weirdo:


:wavey:

cn ireland
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Murray is such an overrated player.

Can't stand him so don't really care about anything he says;)!

Mynarco
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:02 PM
Okay, I hate Murray, but he's right. Serena could be #1 if she wins some big tournies (if she gives her slam-ish performance, no doubt). There is nothing wrong with the system. BUT I didn't expect Murray wins a slam this year..well this is out of this topic's concern.

:haha:@ Thread Starter's comment. No Slam tennis player have no chance to comment on the ranking system, or criticize players winning slams? so illogical. It sounds some yes-mans saying something to please the emperor, but they say this without their brains.

starin
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:02 PM
:tape::help: Of course almost slamless #1 Murray would defend Safina.
It's funny that Federer criticized slamless #1 Jankovic and openly said he hoped that Murray wouldn't get to #1 w/out winning a slam first.

sweetpeas
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:02 PM
Who Cares!

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:04 PM
you mean like safina did at the french open, then bottled it in the final. clijsters was no different she could clean up in most tournaments outside the slams, but bottled it in the finals of slams. she being a nice person, and it being henin she was denying #1, was loved and most people wanted her to win a slam.

That's one grand slam out of how many this year?

Off of clay, I can think of a single tournament where she has delivered good, clean tennis in the last 52 weeks.

most people hate safina and want her to dissapear, when her situation is very similar to clijsters of late 2003. this is because its serena thats #2 (who has a big and very over-zealous fan base for the most part) and safina doesn't play attractive tennis.

If anything, I'd argue that a lot of people defending safina are doing so because they see it as a way to oppose Serena and her fans. Agree to disagree I guess.

Tanja8
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:04 PM
well you are one of the very few. its not by chance that the biggest fuss i've ever seen over the ranking system is because its serena at #2. when clijsters and henin were juggling the top ranking and henin had the slam and clijsters didnt, there was minimal fuss over it.

same with momo and hingis in their days of #1's without slams (momo didn't even have a slam final on her ranks) the fuss was never kicked up as much as it is now. im convinced its because safina is both unnatractive looking and tennis wise (to most anyway) and its serena being deprived of the top ranking.
And I guess it`s also because she`s Russian.
Some people just can`t stand the situation where 9 women of top 13 come from Eastern Europe ... (not counting Wozniacki who is also of Polish origin) ... all those -ova girls:rolleyes: They are boring, they are all headcases, they are all the same etc.
(I`m just writing what I`ve read on some tennis forums)

And I actually admit that I make the same mistake sometimes with Williams sisters. They are two different persons but sometimes I just think (and try not to write;)) "those two". I try to be fair and not to do this but some people don`t even get that it`s something wrong with such generalizing and prejudice.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:18 PM
That's one grand slam out of how many this year?

Off of clay, I can think of a single tournament where she has delivered good, clean tennis in the last 52 weeks.



If anything, I'd argue that a lot of people defending safina are doing so because they see it as a way to oppose Serena and her fans. Agree to disagree I guess.

she was very very good at tokyo last year in the fall, she ripped sveta a new one in the final.

clay is her surface, thats like me saying take away hardcourts and grass whats serena done (or even played a good match) on clay or indoors in the last 52 weeks (clay and indoor is a good 4/5 months of the season)?

for me now i just cant stand to see safina endlessly bashed and so openly as well.

my fave is outside the top 50, so it really doesn't bother me if safina or serena is #1, it just starting to annoy me how much safina is being kicked fun at. i could understand if she had brought it upon herself, but winning as often as she can even when not playing well is not for me a reason to piss on her.

AnnaK_4ever
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:24 PM
you mean like safina did at the french open, then bottled it in the final. clijsters was no different she could clean up in most tournaments outside the slams, but bottled it in the finals of slams. she being a nice person, and it being henin she was denying #1, was loved and most people wanted her to win a slam.

most people hate safina and want her to dissapear, when her situation is very similar to clijsters of late 2003. this is because its serena thats #2 (who has a big and very over-zealous fan base for the most part) and safina doesn't play attractive tennis.

1) In her first GS final Clijsters won more sets and games than Safina did in all three slam finals she has played

2) In 2003 Clijsters won 9 tournaments including YEC and went 21-9 vs top-10 players. Safina has won 3 tournaments so far this season. Her top-10 record is 4-6 in 2009 and 6-12 over the last 52 weeks

3) Safina playing great at RG-2009 is a myth. She had a negative W/UE ratio in all her matches except 60 60 win over Keothavong and even in that match she hit 24 winners to 24 UEs

4) Safina does play the most hideous tennis out of all players who have reached top-3 in the last 15 years except maybe Coetzer and Tauziat

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:25 PM
well you are one of the very few. its not by chance that the biggest fuss i've ever seen over the ranking system is because its serena at #2. when clijsters and henin were juggling the top ranking and henin had the slam and clijsters didnt, there was minimal fuss over it.

same with momo and hingis in their days of #1's without slams (momo didn't even have a slam final on her ranks) the fuss was never kicked up as much as it is now. im convinced its because safina is both unnatractive looking and tennis wise (to most anyway) and its serena being deprived of the top ranking.

as far as i remember clijsters got her heat as well....clijsters was the most consistent after serena, so once serena went out she was fell into the #1 rank...henin didn't get it simply because she had JUST won her 1st slam so it's not like she was racking up slams....momo and hingis got theirs...however hingis wouldn't get the same as safina because at one point hingis was undisputably THE best in the world, and had like 9 other titles to her name...momo got heat for her epic choking as well but she didn't stink up the joint everywhere...

the fact that people think serena deserves it more than safina doesn't mean they are ALL serenatards!!!111!11 people think the best should be #1 as it is in every sport...the only place where the best isn't #1 is the wta....and that's with the other respective bests focusing only on the big matches like serena does...so of course any person, whether casual fan or tennis lunatic would see something wrong with it...

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:25 PM
1) In her first GS final Clijsters won more sets and games than Safina did in all three slam finals she has played

2) In 2003 Clijsters won 9 tournaments including YEC and went 21-9 vs top-10 players. Safina has won 3 tournaments so far this season. Her top-10 record is 4-6 in 2009 and 6-12 over the last 52 weeks

3) Safina playing great at RG-2009 is a myth. She had a negative W/UE ratio in all her matches except 60 60 win over Keothavong and even in that match she hit 24 winners to 24 UEs

4) Safina does play the most hideous tennis out of all players who have reached top-3 in the last 15 years except maybe Coetzer and Tauziat

:haha: Wow...owned.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:28 PM
1) In her first GS final Clijsters won more sets and games than Safina did in all three slam finals she has played

2) In 2003 Clijsters won 9 tournaments including YEC and went 21-9 vs top-10 players. Safina has won 3 tournaments so far this season. Her top-10 record is 4-6 in 2009 and 6-12 over the last 52 weeks

3) Safina playing great at RG-2009 is a myth. She had a negative W/UE ratio in all her matches except 60 60 win over Keothavong and even in that match she hit 24 winners to 24 UEs
4) Safina does play the most hideous tennis out of all players who have reached top-3 in the last 15 years except maybe Coetzer and Tauziat

i thought i was the only one who saw this...all her non - opponents made it easy for her...she faced 2 challenges: vika and sveta...vika brainfarted once safina started playing semi decent, and we all know how the final went...

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:31 PM
as far as i remember clijsters got her heat as well....clijsters was the most consistent after serena, so once serena went out she was fell into the #1 rank...henin didn't get it simply because she had JUST won her 1st slam so it's not like she was racking up slams....momo and hingis got theirs...however hingis wouldn't get the same as safina because at one point hingis was undisputably THE best in the world, and had like 9 other titles to her name...momo got heat for her epic choking as well but she didn't stink up the joint everywhere...

the fact that people think serena deserves it more than safina doesn't mean they are ALL serenatards!!!111!11 people think the best should be #1 as it is in every sport...the only place where the best isn't #1 is the wta....and that's with the other respective bests focusing only on the big matches like serena does...so of course any person, whether casual fan or tennis lunatic would see something wrong with it...

as you've just said #1 doesn't = the best. momo wasn't the best, hingis wasn't at times of her #1 stint, clijsters wasn't either.

this isn't a new thing in tennis. its just safina bashing has become an easy thing to do, her game doesn't help as its not very pretty to watch.

Rome
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:34 PM
Maybe the Dam tour should give a bouns check too the number 1 i'm sure Serena would try then if we say they just give the Number one player a Million dollar's or the player that holds the number 1 ranking for the longest in 1 year.

Apoleb
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:37 PM
A knee-jerk reaction by WS fans doesn't change the fact that he's making perfect sense.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:40 PM
One more reason for me to root against ostrich-head in every tournament. :lol: Win a slam yourself birdman.

And to all of you saying how right he is, blah, blah, blah, Serena is not complaining about not being No. 1. She said herself, she'd rather be No. 2 and win slams than be a slamless No. 1. She's doing her thing. It's the media who is complaining and giving Safina a hard time. I can understand coming to her defense, but why bring Serena into it? If she doesn't want to give her all in smaller tournaments to save herself at her age from burning out early in slams, ala Stoseur, Dementiava etc. than that's her perogative. This is not about Serena. This is about Safina. Regardless of consistency, blah, blah, blah in order to have the respect of the No. 1 player in the world, you have to win a major. There's no if's and's or but's. Then the criticism of her being a slamless No. 1 will stop. But, personally I hope this is not the tournament she does it. :shrug:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:45 PM
One more reason for me to root against ostrich-head in every tournament. :lol: Win a slam yourself birdman.

He doesnt actually insult the Williams sisters though. Clearly the media approached him with the question and he answered how he felt the situation to be.

Max565
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:47 PM
A knee-jerk reaction by WS fans doesn't change the fact that he's making perfect sense.

This. ;)

I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head. Still not a big fan though. Hate his guts. :lol: Ever since he bluntly stated on Jonathan Ross that he never watches women's tennis, I've always kinda viewed him as a sexist jerk. Bear in mind that this was two or three years ago when women's tennis wasn't this bad. (Anyways, I'm pretty sure most of the ATP Tour are misogynstic slobs :kiss:)

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Well he is right. If serena was winning tournaments outside of the slams, Safina wouldn't be #1.

And if Safina would win a slam, she wouldn't be so disrespected and talked about.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:53 PM
or not even that - just getting to the back end of a couple of them - semis, finals, would have been enough. It's not like the WTA is demanding she play and win an additional 8 events to the slams in order to get to #1 - Serena has had many opportunities to get back to #1 over the course of the season and has failed to do so - sometimes apparently due to injury and at others just from poor play.

What I'm getting from most here, especially this post, is you think Serena should be the No. 1 and if she'd just do better in smaller tournaments, you'd get what you want. :shrug: Is that correct?

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:53 PM
A knee-jerk reaction by WS fans doesn't change the fact that he's making perfect sense.

As opposed to your knee jerk reaction when Seles praised the Williams sister in a thread from a few weeks ago?

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:55 PM
People disagree with you. Hence, the criticism.

To paint all criticism of the ranking system as fanaticism (like people here often do) is the ultimate cop out.

Which is why the WTA is not run by the fans. Thank God.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Serena *might* have won Charleston, Marbella, Stanford and Toronto and then there would be nothing at all to talk about here. Didn't happen.

Safina *might* have won the Australian, French and Wimbledon and then there would be nothing at all to talk about here. Didn't happen.

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:58 PM
1) In her first GS final Clijsters won more sets and games than Safina did in all three slam finals she has played


Yeah, because Cappy played terribly in that match as well :lol:

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Safina *might* have won the Australian, French and Wimbledon and then there would be nothing at all to talk about here. Didn't happen.

Safina isn't the one complaining :o

mdterp01
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Ummm...what exactly did Murray say that wasn't true? I'm a huge WS fan but why get mad at stating the obvious. I also agree with the rankings. You have to play and be consistent to get the points. The year is more than the 4 majors. Why do we keep having this conversation over and over? Why can't people get it in their heads that its a computer tabulation and that #1 doesn't always mean best player. Oh my god...even the dead horse is tired of the beating....AND HE'S DEAD!!!!!! :shout:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Murray's right. And oh, by the way, computer rankings, and the debate over them, have been around far far longer than the sisters, and if Serena has a problem with them, then the answer is pretty clear--maybe she ought to play more, just like every other player out there who achieves and has achieved the no.1 ranking.

You know, sometimes, when you have so many confrontations with authority, maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't them--it's you. She frequently claims she isn't respected by the sport and its establishment. Maybe she ought to try respecting the sport before crying foul at every little thing she perceives as implicit racism.

:unsure: WTH???!!! :lol: OMG Wow, how did you get from what Murray said, to all of this about Serena complaining, confronting authority and racism??????:tape::help:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Safina isn't the one complaining :o

Neither is Serena. :o

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Ummm...what exactly did Murray say that wasn't true? I'm a huge WS fan but why get mad at stating the obvious. I also agree with the rankings. You have to play and be consistent to get the points. The year is more than the 4 majors. Why do we keep having this conversation over and over? Why can't people get it in their heads that its a computer tabulation and that #1 doesn't always mean best player. Oh my god...even the dead horse is tired of the beating....AND HE'S DEAD!!!!!! :shout:

Ask the media. They keep brining it up.

Dave.
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:02 PM
honest question: do you think if serena realllly wanted back the #1 rank that she would have done whatever she could have to win regular tour titles?? this is the woman who almost everyone agrees that she could win whatever she wants to put her mind to...bar her injury riddled clay season, serena knowing the #1 rank was up for grabs during the summer, why didn't she put her all into those tournaments to regain the ranking???

or do we finally believe serena when she says "i just want to win majors"

Umm, not really. Did she not want to win the French, or last year's Wimbledon/AO/RG etc...? How about all her other losses? To me it's quite simple, Serena just hasn't been good/consistent enough since the start of the year (up until she got injured in the spring) to have a go at the no.1 ranking. It's not a case of her not caring or only focusing on slams because if that were the case, she'd only be playing slams.




same with momo and hingis in their days of #1's without slams (momo didn't even have a slam final on her ranks) the fuss was never kicked up as much as it is now. im convinced its because safina is both unnatractive looking and tennis wise (to most anyway) and its serena being deprived of the top ranking.

Agreed.




for me now i just cant stand to see safina endlessly bashed and so openly as well.

my fave is outside the top 50, so it really doesn't bother me if safina or serena is #1, it just starting to annoy me how much safina is being kicked fun at. i could understand if she had brought it upon herself, but winning as often as she can even when not playing well is not for me a reason to piss on her.

Same. I don't even like Safina. It's just not fair for her to be constantly critisiced like this (on this board and in the media/interviews) when she's done nothing but gain the most points, and I'm going to stick up for her. Nobody would give a shit whether or not she could win a slam if she wasn't the no.1 ranked player. I did the same with the Jankovic situation, even when she had taken the no.1 ranking from my favourite player.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:03 PM
He doesnt actually insult the Williams sisters though. Clearly the media approached him with the question and he answered how he felt the situation to be.

I know, but I still don't like him. It's just one more reason. ;)

AnnaK_4ever
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:03 PM
Safina isn't the one complaining :o

No, she just said the likes of Clijsters, Novotna, Martinez, Sabatini are jokes whereas she is the almighty world number one.

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Neither is Serena. :o

Never said she was :o

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:07 PM
Safina isnt especially ugly, she is just manly, and unfeminine in her appearance and mannerisms. Plus the foul, stroppy on court temper she has is draining and painful to sit through :tape:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:08 PM
My personal opinion is that Serena Williams doesn't really give 2 hoots for the WTA tour or any of the events on it with the possible exception of Miami. She made her contempt for the events like Rome and Madrid quite clear in her criticisms of Safina - I can't believe that someone who would be so mocking of winning those events is seriously motivated to win them herself.

In an ideal world, I suspect Serena would do nothing more than play at the Slams and Miami and the odd other event here and there, but to get a seeding and automatic entry she has to pay lip service to the tour and its rules and the rankings.

That doesn't mean the ranking system should be so skewed to the slams that those who do well there and do nothing anywhere else though should automatically be ranked #1.

I agree with you here. But, there's nothing wrong with how she feels about the smaller tournaments. She's already paid her dues for the last eleven/twelve years on tour. She's got more than enough money not to have to grind out the smaller tournaments. :shrug: That's just a fact. I'm glad of it, because we don't get to see much of the smaller tournaments anyway and if she and Venus do too much at their age trying to win smaller tournaments, the slams suffer from them losing early. Just like we lost when Dementiava and Stosuer lost. They were the stars of the summer hardcourt season.

mdterp01
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Ask the media. They keep brining it up.

Thats true. Serena had her Rome and Madrid comment after Wimbledon and since then I don't think she's brought it up unless asked of her.

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Safina isnt especially ugly, she is just manly, and unfeminine in her appearance and mannerisms.


So she's not the only successful player with these attributes :angel:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:12 PM
So she's not the only successful player with these attributes :angel:

Yes Matt, but Henin is retired now so please move on :wavey:

Dodoboy.
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:14 PM
:haha: Serenus you are too much~!!!

That was too much :crying2:

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Yes Matt, but Henin is retired now so please move on :wavey:


I see you're still desperately bringing up Justine in various threads...those losses of your faves against her in the Slams must really hurt :hug:

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:19 PM
So she's not the only successful player with these attributes :angel:

Careful, careful..you really don't wanna go there.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:22 PM
OH. HELL. NO. !!!

:wags finger beyonce style:

but seriously i don't think there's anyone that disagrees with him. Even Serena fans will tell you the same. And i don't hear Serena complaining about the rankings either so...

This. :worship:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:23 PM
I totally agree with Andy Murray. I don't think it's fair to blame the rankings and Safina for Safina being number one, when all Serena has to do is win a couple of Premier events and she would probably be number one, but it seems beyond her.

What I have a problem with is all the blame being put on Serena in order to defend Safina. Why do you blame Serena? She doesn't even care. Obviously if she wanted to do it, she would. It doesn't mean that much to her to do it.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Murray is right but Safina has to take some ownership for the heat she's taking over the rankings. Just like Serena could do better in non majors Safina could stop acting like a mental wreck every time she gets in the slams and she could also stop folding like a house of cards when she gets to the Semis or the Finals.

:worship::worship::worship:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:32 PM
I see you're still desperately bringing up Justine in various threads...those losses of your faves against her in the Slams must really hurt :hug:

*Yawn* Change the record, please, Quarterena was soo 2007, this broken record act is tiresome.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:33 PM
And to think: to my knowledge the thread starter ain't even a WS-fan. Yet it's all: WS-fans this and that?

goldenslam888
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Why the hell is Andy Murray discussing the Williams Sisters. They have won multiple grand slams this season, singles and doubles. maybe when he wins a few he can pass judgement but until then. Shut up. He only got number 2 but Nadal not playing Wimbledon.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/6135367/US-Open-2009-Andy-Murray-questions-commitment-of-Williams-sisters.html


well, you see, andy plays in the big leagues, where you have to work your but off to even stay in the top 20. he is also a student of the game.

the ws play in the minor leagues, where tennis is a part time job. a league where you need no variety in your game, the players are mental midgets, and the top players retire in their prime. there is not a female player on earth that could get 2 games off andy murray.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:41 PM
I see you're still desperately bringing up Justine in various threads...those losses of your faves against her in the Slams must really hurt :hug:

:lol: They are still playing and one of them is holding three majors right now. So it's all good.

U only got is..memories.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:45 PM
well, you see, andy plays in the big leagues, where you have to work your but off to even stay in the top 20. he is also a student of the game.

the ws play in the minor leagues, where tennis is a part time job. a league where you need no variety in your game, the players are mental midgets, and the top players retire in their prime. there is not a female player on earth that could get 2 games off andy murray.

Ah please..Andy isn't much of a fighter himself either. Yeah against some Gasquet he could do the "flex my biceps" thing...only to get beat like a punk by Nadal in the next match. Comes into the OZ open redhot, claiming it's a big four now, yada yada...then boom loses to Fernando Verdasco, doesn't even reach the QF!

So he ain't much study of mental toughness and clutchiness iether.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:49 PM
Ah please..Andy isn't much of a fighter himself either. Yeah against some Gasquet he could do the "flex my biceps" thing...only to get beat like a punk by Nadal in the next match. Comes into the OZ open redhot, claiming it's a big four now, yada yada...then boom loses to Fernando Verdasco, doesn't even reach the QF!

So he ain't much study of mental toughness and clutchiness iether.

Verdasco played amazing and went on to match Nadal - almost beating him. There was no shame in that loss IMO. Murray does have good mental toughness and has fought out of tight spots quite a bit. Some people may not like his comment - but part of what makes us Ree fans is our admiration of her speaking her mind and Murray should be afforded the same respect for doing so.

You can only really commend his level of dedication to the game.

Vaidisova Ruled
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:52 PM
What I have a problem with is all the blame being put on Serena in order to defend Safina. Why do you blame Serena? She doesn't even care. Obviously if she wanted to do it, she would. It doesn't mean that much to her to do it.
So now it's Sanowa's fault?

Sure, Serena doesn't care.

Donny
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:55 PM
Umm, not really. Did she not want to win the French, or last year's Wimbledon/AO/RG etc...? How about all her other losses? To me it's quite simple, Serena just hasn't been good/consistent enough since the start of the year (up until she got injured in the spring) to have a go at the no.1 ranking. It's not a case of her not caring or only focusing on slams because if that were the case, she'd only be playing slams.

She plays enough to have a good seeding at the slams. Right now, she has the best possible seeding, so she's doing what she needs to do during the year.





Same. I don't even like Safina. It's just not fair for her to be constantly critisiced like this (on this board and in the media/interviews) when she's done nothing but gain the most points, and I'm going to stick up for her. Nobody would give a shit whether or not she could win a slam if she wasn't the no.1 ranked player. I did the same with the Jankovic situation, even when she had taken the no.1 ranking from my favourite player.

Will you stick up for Serena next time she's criticized? Doubt it.

maja.amelie
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:56 PM
Who cares about Murray. Next.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Baseball isnt an international sport like tennis. Ur point doesnt make any sense.

:lol:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:05 PM
I see..my point is just this: All this rankings discussion came with Serena's infamous: I'm the real no.1, jada jada stuff... just don't do that. It only gaves haters stuff to talk.

You're not seriously blaming Serena for the media jumping all over Safina's poor play in slams and during the summer tour, and being No. 1. Serena was asked the question in two interviews. The media brought up the fact that Safina was a slamless No. 1. Serena was being Serena in the interviews and she should never stop doing that.

Apoleb
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:07 PM
As opposed to your knee jerk reaction when Seles praised the Williams sister in a thread from a few weeks ago?

Huh? WTH you're talking about? :lol: I don't even remember what Seles said, nervermind an actual response from me.

This is the thread you're talking about: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=387567&highlight=seles+praise+williams and I didn't make a single post in it. :lol: Nice try though.

supergrunt
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:10 PM
i used to like him

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:10 PM
1) In her first GS final Clijsters won more sets and games than Safina did in all three slam finals she has played

2) In 2003 Clijsters won 9 tournaments including YEC and went 21-9 vs top-10 players. Safina has won 3 tournaments so far this season. Her top-10 record is 4-6 in 2009 and 6-12 over the last 52 weeks

3) Safina playing great at RG-2009 is a myth. She had a negative W/UE ratio in all her matches except 60 60 win over Keothavong and even in that match she hit 24 winners to 24 UEs

4) Safina does play the most hideous tennis out of all players who have reached top-3 in the last 15 years except maybe Coetzer and Tauziat

:o :worship::worship::worship:

nfl46
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:11 PM
Sometimes it is best to NOT state the obvious. It makes it seem like you are desperate for attention. That's all I'm saying.

By the way, I don't like Murray. He needs to take some pointers from Venus and Serena, especially Venus, if he EVER plans on winning Wimbledon.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:11 PM
Safina is an international athlete - with the millions comes the pressure to succeed and the criticism that follows a lack of success.

If Christiano Ronaldo was able to dribble past the midfielders and defenders with ease, but then sent the ball flying well over the goal every time - people wouldnt say 'Well he nearly makes it a lot, hes consistant and he tried hard' they would come down on him like a tonne of bricks for not getting the job done. Why should everyone hold hands and make nice with Dinara when she does effectively the same thing.

Get a grip - this is sports people.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Same. I don't even like Safina. It's just not fair for her to be constantly critisiced like this (on this board and in the media/interviews) when she's done nothing but gain the most points, and I'm going to stick up for her. Nobody would give a shit whether or not she could win a slam if she wasn't the no.1 ranked player. I did the same with the Jankovic situation, even when she had taken the no.1 ranking from my favourite player.

What makes this seem so disingenuous on your part Dave is the fact that when Venus and Serena get shit on by the media and this board, you're as quiet as a church mouse.

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Safina is an international athlete - with the millions comes the pressure to succeed and the criticism that follows a lack of success.

If Christiano Ronaldo was able to dribble past the midfielders and defenders with ease, but then sent the ball flying well over the goal every time - people wouldnt say 'Well he nearly makes it a lot, hes consistant and he tried hard' they would come down on him like a tonne of bricks for not getting the job done. Why should everyone hold hands and make nice with Dinara when she does effectively the same thing.

Get a grip - this is sports people.

great analogy...but did you have to use the devil himself :o

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:16 PM
Never said she was :o

Nor did I say Safina was. :o

:lol: What are you, 12 years old?

BuTtErFrEnA
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:16 PM
What makes this seem so disingenuous on your part Dave is the fact that when Venus and Serena get shit on by the media and this board, you're as quiet as a church mouse.

because they deserve it...

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:17 PM
Yes Matt, but Henin is retired now so please move on :wavey:

:lol::lol::tape:

bridgepea
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:17 PM
OK, here we go again. Venus and Serena have been on Tour now for over 10 years. Methinks that if they choose this time in their careers to cherry pick tournaments at which they display all their talent, then kudos to them. Why cant the so-called No. 1 step it up in the bigger events. Frankly, if we are talking about consistency, we could say that Serena has been the more consistent player as she has won 4 titles this year. Australian Open singles and doubles and Wimbledon singles and doubles. How many other players can say that they have won 4 majors in a calendar year? I hope they both win the USO singles and doubles and tell everyone to STFU. Safina is a lame-ass No. 1. She is not a credible NO.1. She has won 3 tournaments all year and that is only because she has to have her coach come on court each time to tell her what to do. Andy Murray is a best of 3 set player. Nothing more. The minute it goes into a 4th or 5th set, he is done. Witness last year's USO. He has been on Tour almost 4 years and has only reached 1 Slam final and 1 semi. All he does is stand way back on the baseline and slice until his opponent misses. He is a defensive player who will never amount to anything. End of Rant

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:18 PM
great analogy...but did you have to use the devil himself :o

I know, sorry. :sobbing: Just assumed every1 would know who he was :p

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:18 PM
*Yawn* Change the record, please, Quarterena was soo 2007, this broken record act is tiresome.

That's all he has.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:19 PM
well, you see, andy plays in the big leagues, where you have to work your but off to even stay in the top 20. he is also a student of the game.

the ws play in the minor leagues, where tennis is a part time job. a league where you need no variety in your game, the players are mental midgets, and the top players retire in their prime. there is not a female player on earth that could get 2 games off andy murray.

And you're on this forum, why? :confused:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:19 PM
:lol::lol::tape:

:rolls: Strangely Matt had no response to that. The usual shit stir followed by the silent slip away :rolleyes: Predictable and dull.

goldenslam888
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:19 PM
You're not seriously blaming Serena for the media jumping all over Safina's poor play in slams and during the summer tour, and being No. 1. Serena was asked the question in two interviews. The media brought up the fact that Safina was a slamless No. 1. Serena was being Serena in the interviews and she should never stop doing that.

no, it was serena who made a spectacle of the ranking system in a post match interview.

probably the most pathetic performance by any multi-slam former #1, ever!

but, serena seems to have issues with any player who is reasonably attractive.

goldenslam888
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:21 PM
And you're on this forum, why? :confused:

entertainment. what else?

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:21 PM
So now it's Sanowa's fault?

Sure, Serena doesn't care.

Who is Sanowa? And no, Serena said herself, she only cares about the slams. What's the problem?

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:22 PM
So now it's Sanowa's fault?

Sure, Serena doesn't care.

:confused: What have I missed here? :scratch:

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:22 PM
So she's not the only successful player with these attributes :angel:

Yes, but Martina Navratilova is retired now. So please, let it go.

LeonHart
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM
Umm, he is right. There has never been an issue with the #1 ranking until the Williams showed up. They win the slams but don't give a damn about the other tournaments which leads to inflated rankings. You didn't see this in the past in the womens game nor do you see it in the mens game because top players play well in both Grand Slams and other events they play in.

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM
entertainment. what else?

To talk about tennis. In case you're unaware, this is a tennis forum.

Inktrailer
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM
Just to pick a team from my sig, the Giants were the best team in the regular season by a large margin, yet lost in the playoffs to the evil Eagles, a wilcard team. They'd be analogous to Safina in that respect.

Off topic a little, but what?:lol:

Best team in the regular season by a large margin? Steelers, Colts and Panthers had the same 12-4 record and the Titans bettered it at 13-3.

So the Giants would be analogous to... Jankovic, I reckon;)

canuckfan
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Safina is an international athlete - with the millions comes the pressure to succeed and the criticism that follows a lack of success.

If Christiano Ronaldo was able to dribble past the midfielders and defenders with ease, but then sent the ball flying well over the goal every time - people wouldnt say 'Well he nearly makes it a lot, hes consistant and he tried hard' they would come down on him like a tonne of bricks for not getting the job done. Why should everyone hold hands and make nice with Dinara when she does effectively the same thing.

Get a grip - this is sports people.

And you said Sammy's exemple was stupid... :lol:

Ronaldo plays a team sport and he has a contract. Regardless of how he plays, he'll get paid.

If Safina doesn't win a match, she gets nothing. How she does doesn't affect anyone except herself and her opponent, who I'm sure is very happy when she plays crappy tennis...

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:25 PM
I know, sorry. :sobbing: Just assumed every1 would know who he was :p

Nope, sorry. :lol: But, I got and liked your point. ;)

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:25 PM
Umm, he is right. There has never been an issue with the #1 ranking until the Williams showed up. They win the slams but don't give a damn about the other tournaments which leads to inflated rankings. You didn't see this in the past in the womens game nor do you see it in the mens game because top players play well in both Grand Slams and other events they play in.

Yes thanks for the logical approach. Its Serena and Venus ''Antichrist'' Williams who are dragging the WTA into chaos. They're keeping the WTA alive atm and we all know it.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:26 PM
:rolls: Strangely Matt had no response to that. The usual shit stir followed by the silent slip away :rolleyes: Predictable and dull.

Yes, as usual. :lol:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:26 PM
no, it was serena who made a spectacle of the ranking system in a post match interview.

probably the most pathetic performance by any multi-slam former #1, ever!

but, serena seems to have issues with any player who is reasonably attractive.

TROLL ALERT!

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:27 PM
Safina is an international athlete - with the millions comes the pressure to succeed and the criticism that follows a lack of success.

If Christiano Ronaldo was able to dribble past the midfielders and defenders with ease, but then sent the ball flying well over the goal every time - people wouldnt say 'Well he nearly makes it a lot, hes consistant and he tried hard' they would come down on him like a tonne of bricks for not getting the job done. Why should everyone hold hands and make nice with Dinara when she does effectively the same thing.

Get a grip - this is sports people.

:hearts:

but there's no h in his name :o

LeonHart
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:27 PM
Yes thanks for the logical approach. Its Serena and Venus ''Antichrist'' Williams who are dragging the WTA into chaos. They're keeping the WTA alive atm and we all know it.

They keep the slams interesting. That's about it.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:28 PM
And you said Sammy's exemple was stupid... :lol:

Ronaldo plays a team sport and he has a contract. Regardless of how he plays, he'll get paid.

If Safina doesn't win a match, she gets nothing. How she does doesn't affect anyone except herself and her opponent, who I'm sure is very happy when she plays crappy tennis...

:bs: Are you intentionally distorting the truth in order to make a point?

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:29 PM
And you said Sammy's exemple was stupid... :lol:

Ronaldo plays a team sport and he has a contract. Regardless of how he plays, he'll get paid.

If Safina doesn't win a match, she gets nothing. How she does doesn't affect anyone except herself and her opponent, who I'm sure is very happy when she plays crappy tennis...

No dear, Safina will have enough contractual agreements and sponsors to pay the bills if she slumps a little. I dont see Ana remortgaging her house or Vaidisova ebayying her kidneys. :rolleyes:

And if nothing else, the pressure in a team game is greater - since as you say Safina can only let herself down whereas team players can let down the rest of the squad too.

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:29 PM
They keep the slams interesting. That's about it.

They're the two biggest female tennis stars of all time (along with Maria S). Not to mention Venus' vocalisation of equality for the women in tenns. "That's about it" - is a rather inadequate summation of what they do for the game to say the least.

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:29 PM
:rolls: Strangely Matt had no response to that. The usual shit stir followed by the silent slip away :rolleyes: Predictable and dull.


Oh, someone's bitter because I didn't reply back to him :lol:
Some posts are worth a reply, others are not. :wavey:

Matt01
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:30 PM
They're the two biggest female tennis stars of all time (along with Maria S).


OMG :haha:

Delusion alert.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:32 PM
They keep the slams interesting. That's about it.

:rolls: You totally lack credibility. The Williams sisters just keep the slams interesting!?! If the crowds are really flocking to see the rest of the bunch...Elena, Jelena, Azarenka, Ivanovic, then I guess there are some busy airports in Europe :haha:

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:34 PM
OMG :haha:

Delusion alert.

They are. Why do the simplest things elude you?
Serena is regularly ranked in Forbes power list above world reknowned actors like Reese Witherspoone, she dates A(-)Listers, she brings unprecedent interest attention to the sport, her matches have attracted the highest viewing figures of any female tennis player in history. She has had the highest endorsement contract in all of female sports. Where does it all go wrong for you Matt?

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Oh, someone's bitter because I didn't reply back to him :lol:
Some posts are worth a reply, others are not. :wavey:

Of course its easier to reply when you have a good response. Sadly, you rarely do, so I understand your problem. Try popping into a thread to discuss tennis sometime...if you every get bored of straight up insults that is.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Oh, someone's bitter because I didn't reply back to him :lol:
Some posts are worth a reply, others are not. :wavey:

And some you have no reply. :tape:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:36 PM
They are. Why do the simplest things elude you?
Serena is regularly ranked in Forbes power list above world reknowned actors like Reese Witherspoone, she dates A(-)Listers, she brings unprecedent interest attention to the sport, her matches have attracted the highest viewing figures of any female tennis player in history. She has had the highest endorsement contract in all of female sports. Where does it all go wrong for you Matt?

It's not Martina Nav or Justine.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Of course its easier to reply when you have a good response. Sadly, you rarely do, so I understand your problem. Try popping into a thread to discuss tennis sometime...if you every get bored of straight up insults that is.

THIS!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce::worship::worship: :worship:

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:39 PM
They are. Why do the simplest things elude you?
Serena is regularly ranked in Forbes power list above world reknowned actors like Reese Witherspoone, she dates A(-)Listers, she brings unprecedent interest attention to the sport, her matches have attracted the highest viewing figures of any female tennis player in history. She has had the highest endorsement contract in all of female sports. Where does it all go wrong for you Matt?

So World renowned that you can't get her name right.

Mynarco
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:40 PM
No dear, Safina will have enough contractual agreements and sponsors to pay the bills if she slumps a little. I dont see Ana remortgaging her house or Vaidisova ebayying her kidneys. :rolleyes:

And if nothing else, the pressure in a team game is greater - since as you say Safina can only let herself down whereas team players can let down the rest of the squad too.

this. :haha:

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:42 PM
So World renowned that you can't get her name right.

Please take your pedantic arse and leave the thread. Your comments are insubstantial and useless. She's an Oscar winner and world-famous regardless of whether I can spell her name correctly offhand.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:42 PM
i gave up on this thread because the rational if biased people i was responding to (donny ect) have been overtaken by the serenatard group of posters who have spammed the thread, each backed the other up and thought they proved a point lol. the only point they have proved is ignore really does work and idiots hunt in packs.

serena-lover you excluded from this because you can be rational and have good points but aren't proving it very well in this thread.

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:42 PM
So World renowned that you can't get her name right.

:scratch: So because SL didn't spell Reese Witherspoon's name correctly, she's not a world renowned actress?

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Please take your pedantic arse and leave the thread. Your comments are insubstantial and useless. She's an Oscar winner and world-famous regardless of whether I can spell her name correctly offhand.

:lol::lol::lol:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:44 PM
i gave up on this thread because the rational if biased people i was responding to (donny ect) have been overtaken by the serenatard group of posters who have spammed the thread, each backed the other up and thought they proved a point lol. the only point they have proved is ignore really does work and idiots hunt in packs.

serena-lover you excluded from this because you can be rational and have good points but aren't proving it very well in this thread.

= I lost the argument with my stupid points and invalid analogies, so I'm taking my ball and going home. :lol:

mdterp01
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:45 PM
:lol: They are still playing and one of them is holding three majors right now. So it's all good.

U only got is..memories.

:lol: :worship:

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:46 PM
i gave up on this thread because the rational if biased people i was responding to (donny ect) have been overtaken by the serenatard group of posters who have spammed the thread, each backed the other up and thought they proved a point lol. the only point they have proved is ignore really does work and idiots hunt in packs.

serena-lover you excluded from this because you can be rational and have good points but aren't proving it very well in this thread.

Not quite enough it seems :haha: It worries me that you brand the group of people thinking the same thing as the idiots. Perhaps you need to step back and think 'If Im the only one who doesnt get it...maybe I'm the idiot!?'

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:47 PM
A helluva player

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:47 PM
= I lost the argument with my stupid points and invalid analogies, so I'm taking my ball and going home. :lol:

:worship: Weird all the trolls have the same responses but just keep coming back for more :tape:

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:48 PM
serena-lover you excluded from this because you can be rational and have good points but aren't proving it very well in this thread.

Thanks, Im overwhelmed by this...

Anyway, I have merely stated some facts about Serena's (I do like to talk about her) superstardom in this thread and argued with Matt...it was either this or go to the pub tonight....

canuckfan
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:49 PM
i gave up on this thread because the rational if biased people i was responding to (donny ect) have been overtaken by the serenatard group of posters who have spammed the thread, each backed the other up and thought they proved a point lol. the only point they have proved is ignore really does work and idiots hunt in packs.

serena-lover you excluded from this because you can be rational and have good points but aren't proving it very well in this thread.

The big circle jerk has indeed begun.

I guess the thread will be closed soon anyway...

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:49 PM
:scratch: So because SL didn't spell Reese Witherspoon's name correctly, she's not a world renowned actress?

I don't think Angelina Jolie is shaking in her boots quite yet.

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:51 PM
The big circle jerk has indeed begun.

I guess the thread will be closed soon anyway...

Yeah, it seems to be the life motto round here 'If you cant beat em, close the thread.' WS fans are used to it anyway.

sammy01
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Thanks, Im overwhelmed by this...

Anyway, I have merely stated some facts about Serena's (I do like to talk about her) superstardom in this thread and argued with Matt...it was either this or go to the pub tonight....

sounds like a plan, 1st round is on me, i'll throw in a bag of pork scratchings to, im feeling generous lol

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:53 PM
I don't think Angelina Jolie is shaking in her boots quite yet.

Oh I see, this is actually an Angelina Jolie vs. Reese Witherspoon discussion. Well, this thread should clearly be moved to the diva forum. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:55 PM
Thanks, Im overwhelmed by this...

Anyway, I have merely stated some facts about Serena's (I do like to talk about her) superstardom in this thread and argued with Matt...it was either this or go to the pub tonight....

:spit: :lol::lol:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:56 PM
I don't think Angelina Jolie is shaking in her boots quite yet.

Only one actress can be world renowned at a time? :confused: :tape::help: :lol::lol::lol:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:57 PM
The big circle jerk has indeed begun.

I guess the thread will be closed soon anyway...

And so it seems has the martyrdom. Crosses and all. :rolleyes:

Denise4925
Sep 4th, 2009, 09:58 PM
Yeah, it seems to be the life motto round here 'If you cant beat em, close the thread.' WS fans are used to it anyway.

That's code for start reporting posts because we can't win the argument, so we'll get it closed. :rolleyes:

Cookie Power
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Oh I see, this is actually an Angelina Jolie vs. Reese Witherspoon discussion. Well, this thread should clearly be moved to the diva forum. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you'll feel right at home.

Serenita
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:04 PM
The big circle jerk has indeed begun.

I guess the thread will be closed soon anyway...
I'm surprised they didn't moved it to the Serena forum yet.:o

serenus_2k8
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I'm sure you'll feel right at home.

Truly inspired :weirdo:

This thread can be closed now for all I care. Its pretty much been proven that Serena cant be told what to do and can dominate the big events at will. As much as it eats you haters up, whining and bitching isnt gonna make Serena risk her longevity for MM titles until hell freezes over. End of :wavey:

Galsen
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:08 PM
Yes Matt, but Henin is retired now so please move on :wavey:
°passed away°
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/34/flatline.gif (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/flatline.gif/)

HRHoliviasmith
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:16 PM
I'm surprised they didn't moved it to the Serena forum yet.:o

:haha:

Olórin
Sep 4th, 2009, 10:16 PM
I'm sure you'll feel right at home.

:lol:

Well you do have some wit afterall.