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View Full Version : Can Someone Explain To Me How Venus Lost To Pironkova In 2006?


lizchris
Sep 1st, 2009, 11:57 PM
She has no game and no forhard whatsoever.

Oh, and her serve stinks too.

trufanjay
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:18 AM
Venus tends to lose to players who.....kind of suck. sorry to put it that way. I always like it when Venus plays someone who has a little game.

Wannabeknowitall
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:23 AM
The same way she lost the Australian Open this year, she got caught in a backhand to backhand battle and lost.
Also she wasn't returning that well.

AcesHigh
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:24 AM
Venus on a bad day can lose to anyone on tour. It doesnt take much.
And on a good day she can probably beat anyone. She's that streaky when off or on

Infiniti2001
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:25 AM
Venus played a great 1st set, and then fell into self-destructive mode :shrug:

The Dawntreader
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM
Venus on a bad day can lose to anyone on tour. It doesnt take much.
And on a good day she can probably beat anyone. She's that streaky when off or on

Venus doesn't lose to lower-ranks having a 'bad day'.

It usually has to be a full-blown implosion day. RG is usually her best haunting place for this.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:29 AM
Pironkova converted a Match Point first that day

!Gio!
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:32 AM
Actually Tzveti is a former top 40 player who has also beaten Ivanovic and taken it to Henin, Svetlana, Serena and even last time she played Maria it was 7-6 6-4 loss. Tzveti has had a horrible year and 12 1st round exits, she is basically out of the top 100 now. She is nowhere near the level she was playing at last year.

TheBoiledEgg
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:36 AM
whats it got to with right now ???

AcesHigh
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:40 AM
Venus doesn't lose to lower-ranks having a 'bad day'.

It usually has to be a full-blown implosion day. RG is usually her best haunting place for this.

:lol: Sounds about right

P_Fer
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:40 AM
Tsveti has a nice game IMO :shrug: She definitely hasnt demonstrated her best this year though :(

MBM
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:45 AM
you saw what nearly happened yesterday, right???

The Dawntreader
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:50 AM
In response to the actual question, the conditions really suited Pironkova that day. The tournament in general that year was slow, but the court was even more so that day. Tsvetana definitely looked more comfortable moving as she was able to take longer strides, and she was able to wear down Venus in gruelling rallies. She was also aggressive enough when it counted too. She was changing up the angles and direction of the ball nicely.

Of course when Venus is making 60+ unforced errors- that helps too.

faboozadoo15
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:50 AM
It wouldn't have really mattered against Maria today. 2 more games, tops.

The Dawntreader
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:53 AM
It wouldn't have really mattered against Maria today. 2 more games, tops.

Am i sensing a Maria over-reaction?

starin
Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:53 AM
Venus lost a set to an opponent who hit ZERO winners. I think that explains it all. She's had a career of making of lower ranked players look better than they actually are.

Slutiana
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:01 AM
Manatee just stay way from Venus' threads, you really are a disgrace. :lol::bigwave:

sammy01
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:03 AM
venus is a 'ballbasher' a great ballbasher that can destroy opponents when its on, when its off she has no 'plan b'. her technique is pretty brittle so slowing down her strokes/rallying just results in more errors (see the match vs bartoli at stanford), so keeping going for it or coming to the net is her only real option, if these are failing she doesn't have a get out of jail card like serena interms of being able to rally and use a bit more angles/spin.

her 'go for it' approach makes her great on grass.

serenus_2k8
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:06 AM
venus is a 'ballbasher' a great ballbasher that can destroy opponents when its on, when its off she has no 'plan b'. her technique is pretty brittle so slowing down her strokes/rallying just results in more errors (see the match vs bartoli at stanford), so keeping going for it or coming to the net is her only real option, if these are failing she doesn't have a get out of jail card like serena interms of being able to rally and use a bit more angles/spin.

her 'go for it' approach makes her great on grass.

She is far less of a ballbasher than a lot of players, and she has more of a plan B too. Venus has hit a lot more volleys than Safina, Masha and Im sure a lot of other top players. Elena D, JJ, Ana? Hardly any of them attack the net as much as Venus does, so your post is void.

VivalaSeles
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:07 AM
Pironkova was playing much better and Venus was off.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:12 AM
Yellow dress, treeing opponent, 70 unforced errors :shrug:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:14 AM
The best part of that day was Vee going Compton in the press conference :lol:

volta
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:15 AM
was seriously thnking the same while i was watching Maria's match :tape: but as i recall Pironkova was very offensive during her match with Vee no?She was running alot of balls and getting them back with interest. I only saw that match once (and thats more than enough really :o ) and was on a verge of getting ER treatment (Venus :rolleyes: ) so i might be wrong.

sammy01
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:16 AM
She is far less of a ballbasher than a lot of players, and she has more of a plan B too. Venus has hit a lot more volleys than Safina, Masha and Im sure a lot of other top players. Elena D, JJ, Ana? Hardly any of them attack the net as much as Venus does, so your post is void.

can you read, i said going for it and coming to the net are her only 2 options, and lets face it name me a metch where venus was losing and turned it around coming in. no jj or lena don't do it, but they could rush to the net and lose that way as well.

venus's net play only looks good when shes in full flow coming in for put away volleys, if shes missing off the ground coming in behind anything other than pin point shots will give venus problems (again see the match vs bartoli)

KoOlMaNsEaN
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:17 AM
Venus hit 70 unforced errors

serenus_2k8
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:23 AM
can you read, i said going for it and coming to the net are her only 2 options, and lets face it name me a metch where venus was losing and turned it around coming in. no jj or lena don't do it, but they could rush to the net and lose that way as well.

venus's net play only looks good when shes in full flow coming in for put away volleys, if shes missing off the ground coming in behind anything other than pin point shots will give venus problems (again see the match vs bartoli)

Strangely I can read Sammy, the real question is can you construct an argument without your hate of the WS totally blinding you :tape:

You cant argue that Venus is one dimensional when she quite clearly has a more complete all court game than the majority of the other women on tour, it just doesnt make sense. When do other top players implement their plan B to turn matches around? Many a time Venus attacks the net early to get some quick, cheap points and start building momentum, which she even did against Vera several times.

Its never as obvious as 'She starts attacking the net at X and then reels of 10 straight games after that' but it definitely shifts the momentum and lets Venus seize control at importan times in the match. Anyone can see that.

sammy01
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:28 AM
Strangely I can read Sammy, the real question is can you construct an argument without your hate of the WS totally blinding you :tape:

You cant argue that Venus is one dimensional when she quite clearly has a more complete all court game than the majority of the other women on tour, it just doesnt make sense. When do other top players implement their plan B to turn matches around? Many a time Venus attacks the net early to get some quick, cheap points and start building momentum, which she even did against Vera several times.

Its never as obvious as 'She starts attacking the net at X and then reels of 10 straight games after that' but it definitely shifts the momentum and lets Venus seize control at importan times in the match. Anyone can see that.


:help::tape: i will leave it there, because if you believe that then im hitting my head against a brick wall.

serenus_2k8
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:30 AM
:help::tape: i will leave it there, because if you believe that then im hitting my head against a brick wall.

You should try that - it might knock some sense into you.

Edinboro
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:32 AM
Actually I think Sammy post was spot on and I actually like Venus.

Black Mamba.
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:34 AM
It's Venus, we all know the answer to this question. She's the same player that can completely destroy a top 5 ranked player one day then lose in an error filled crap fest to a player ranked outside the top 100 another day.

jbeacinu
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:39 AM
sammy is correct. serenus is wrong. it's not sammy's hate, its serenus' love for the ws that has him completely blinded by the fact that Venus doesn't have as good as a game as he thinks she does.

serenus_2k8
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:41 AM
Actually I think Sammy post was spot on and I actually like Venus.

I watched at least part of all the top 5 players R1 matches - Safina, Serena, Venus, JJ and Elena D - though I missed a lot of Serenas coz I was busy, sadly. I struggle to recall any points that involved volleying in any of the matches except for Venus' - instead I saw Safina, JJ and Elena D all slugging it out from the baseline, though Kudos to JJ for being more varied IMO.

If anyone is happy to call Venus a ballbasher, then they cannot argue that the other members of the top 5 are not equally - if not more so guilty of ballbashing themselves. Dinara was in deep sh*t and yet didnt decide to do anything differently, just hit the ball harder until her opponent buckled. Venus charged the net, put away volleys and even continued to do so despite Vera playing some great passing shots.

The very fact that Venus and Serena have the success they have in doubles says it all. The other top girls arent interested because they frankly lack the net skill to be succesful at it.

cellophane
Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:51 AM
Pironkova played nowhere near what she is capable of in this match...she was surprisingly passive.

Cakeisgood
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:16 AM
I watched at least part of all the top 5 players R1 matches - Safina, Serena, Venus, JJ and Elena D - though I missed a lot of Serenas coz I was busy, sadly. I struggle to recall any points that involved volleying in any of the matches except for Venus' - instead I saw Safina, JJ and Elena D all slugging it out from the baseline, though Kudos to JJ for being more varied IMO.

If anyone is happy to call Venus a ballbasher, then they cannot argue that the other members of the top 5 are not equally - if not more so guilty of ballbashing themselves. Dinara was in deep sh*t and yet didnt decide to do anything differently, just hit the ball harder until her opponent buckled. Venus charged the net, put away volleys and even continued to do so despite Vera playing some great passing shots.

The very fact that Venus and Serena have the success they have in doubles says it all. The other top girls arent interested because they frankly lack the net skill to be succesful at it.

Nobody is arguing that these girls aren't ballbashers. You are completely missing the point. A lot of girls don't have a plan B INCLUDING Venus. Did you even watch her match yesterday? All of her net approaches were terrible.

It is a misconception that Venus has great volleys. The only things that are impressive about her net skills are her swing volleys and putaways off of high puffballs. Admittedly, those two aspects of her game are impressive, however, when something comes at her with remotely any pace, she's done for.

LeonHart
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:20 AM
vJbsE2AKgpc

Watch it yourself.

hankqq
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:23 AM
Pironkova played much better against Venus, and Venus also self-imploded :shrug: :lol:

serenus_2k8
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:23 AM
Nobody is arguing that these girls aren't ballbashers. You are completely missing the point. A lot of girls don't have a plan B INCLUDING Venus. Did you even watch her match yesterday? All of her net approaches were terrible.

It is a misconception that Venus has great volleys. The only things that are impressive about her net skills are her swing volleys and putaways off of high puffballs. Admittedly, those two aspects of her game are impressive, however, when something comes at her with remotely any pace, she's done for.

Yeh I've already said that Venus is guilty of ballbashing - but just to a lesser extent than a lot of the other players. Her unimpressive net skills have earned her 2/3 doubles slams this year though ;) But I suppose thats just ballbashing too :rolleyes: Ive seen Venus handle balls with pace as well as puffballs. And I did watch her match yesterday - was far from perfect but I actually found it very entertaining. She may not have approached perfectly but her oppponent was playing a great match and Venus is hardly high on confidence. All things considered, I respect her performance.

Cakeisgood
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:33 AM
vJbsE2AKgpc

Watch it yourself.

I wish she grunted like that against Maria. Would have been AWESOME.

hellas719
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:34 AM
Actually, Pironkova is very talented, but she hasn't been doing good lately:(

Infiniti2001
Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:39 AM
Nobody is arguing that these girls aren't ballbashers. You are completely missing the point. A lot of girls don't have a plan B INCLUDING Venus. Did you even watch her match yesterday? All of her net approaches were terrible.

It is a misconception that Venus has great volleys. The only things that are impressive about her net skills are her swing volleys and putaways off of high puffballs. Admittedly, those two aspects of her game are impressive, however, when something comes at her with remotely any pace, she's done for.

Misconception my ass. I mean no one said she has perfect vollyers, but her are way better than most of the top players.

tobi
Sep 2nd, 2009, 03:30 AM
I remember her BH was on fire that day,she was confident in that final set thanks to numerous UEs by Venus,once she got going she played really nice match.

Then lost to Granville in that event :devil:

darrinbaker00
Sep 2nd, 2009, 03:52 AM
She has no game and no forhard whatsoever.

Oh, and her serve stinks too.
Can someone explain to you how Venus lost to Pironkova in 2006? Sure, I can. Pironkova played better tennis than Venus did that day.

DOUBLEFIST
Sep 2nd, 2009, 05:01 AM
Can Someone Explain To Me How Venus Lost To Pironkova In 2006?

She's Venus Williams. :rolleyes:

Venus is capable of losing to ANYONE at ANYTIME just as she capable of beating ANYONE at ANYTIME. She's infuriating.

!Gio!
Sep 2nd, 2009, 08:00 AM
Tzveti is really talented! She is capable of the top 20! She was top 40. The problem is her head. She often plays really good in one match and really bad in the next. She is very inconsistant. Reminds me of a weaker Dementieva, especially with that serve of hers and her great footwork. Problem is she has gotten consistant finally, consistant at losing, she has lost her head and all of her confidence and has played all year like total shit. I hope she wakes up soon. Like I said she has take many of the top players to three sets or atleast two tough ones as she did against Maria last time they played, unfortunately that was a long time ago.

Bijoux0021
Sep 2nd, 2009, 08:26 AM
Actually Tzveti is a former top 40 player who has also beaten Ivanovic and taken it to Henin, Svetlana, Serena and even last time she played Maria it was 7-6 6-4 loss. Tzveti has had a horrible year and 12 1st round exits, she is basically out of the top 100 now. She is nowhere near the level she was playing at last year.
That explains why she was Sharapova's first round opponent. I guess she's worst than Petrova.:tape:

DefyingGravity
Sep 2nd, 2009, 04:32 PM
You know when you get a donation of 90 unforced errors, that's....what? 22 games and a 30 - 0 lead? That's how Venus lost to Pironkova. I had that match on tape...and I saw it the other day and they said she hit 90 unforced errors in that loss.

And then you have to count a double fault count and Tsvetana's own winners, that's at least 110 points.

BlueTrees
Jan 25th, 2011, 12:58 PM
Bump :lol:

ce
Jan 25th, 2011, 12:59 PM
:weirdo:

The Witch-king
Jan 25th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Bump :lol:

Why?

BlueTrees
Jan 25th, 2011, 01:32 PM
Because she lost to her again the next time they played, at a Grand Slam :shrug:

The Witch-king
Jan 25th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Because she lost to her again the next time they played, at a Grand Slam :shrug:

Really? When? :confused:

eck
Jan 25th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Wimbledon last year ;)

The Witch-king
Jan 25th, 2011, 01:47 PM
I noticed during the AO that Venus does not like to hit slow balls on her forehand AT ALL

Maybe that's why Piro beated her

HippityHop
Jan 25th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Because she's Venus. She can lose to anybody at anytime.

Zerenamaria
Jan 25th, 2011, 02:27 PM
Venus' heighdays are over. She is extending her career to promote her fashion business.

pancake
Jan 25th, 2011, 02:44 PM
Really? When? :confused:

You don't have a very good memory, I guess. It was pretty big news, Venus being knocked out by someone other than top players at Wimbledon. And it's not hard to look up their H2H on the Internet.

V's a star
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:14 PM
So u bump this thread like 6 months late?......................:help:

Anyways her wrist was fucked thats why she lost. :)

it-girl
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:16 PM
Venus on a bad day can lose to anyone on tour. It doesnt take much.
And on a good day she can probably beat anyone. She's that streaky when off or onThis.

LCS
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:17 PM
The same way she lost the Australian Open this year, she got caught in a backhand to backhand battle and lost.
Also she wasn't returning that well.

I doubt Venus would lose a battle of backhands...:rolleyes:

it-girl
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:18 PM
I have to agree the timing of this thread bump is rather off since this happened last year at Wimbledon:lol:

gmokb
Jan 25th, 2011, 06:46 PM
I have to agree the timing of this thread bump is rather off since this happened last year at Wimbledon:lol:

Good to know I am not the only one who did not see the relevance of this thread bump:eek:

Pops Maellard
Jan 25th, 2011, 09:19 PM
Vee. :bigcry:

Pironkova has been hit with the Venus curse big time now though. :devil:

Rex59
Jan 25th, 2011, 09:43 PM
Venus had "81" UFEs in that match. All Tsvetana had to do was keep her balls in play and let Venus self-destruct, which she did. Which is exactly the same way she did last year at Wimbledon against the same player. The only difference between the two losses is that she gave away fewer points.

Mistress of Evil
Jan 26th, 2011, 11:45 AM
It was just another Fluke. :yeah:

Claycourter
Jan 26th, 2011, 12:14 PM
Luck.

eDonkey
Jan 26th, 2011, 12:38 PM
Guys, come on!When Pironkova is on, she can beat anyone as well, she has 5 top 10 wins.Stop spoiling other players good performances.It was WImbledon QF, not Marbella 1st round.:rolleyes:

Pironkova hit 41 winners and 17 UE in her previous round match vs Bartoli (Bartoli had positive balance of her points, too).She was brilliant at the time in London.She is stuck in a hole right now and we all know it.But don't underestimate her that much.

BlueTrees
Jun 24th, 2011, 05:12 PM
Should be a great match on Monday. :)

tennisbum79
Jun 24th, 2011, 05:55 PM
Venus on a bad day can lose to anyone on tour. It doesnt take much.
And on a good day she can probably beat anyone. She's that streaky when off or on

agreed

WF4EVER
Jun 24th, 2011, 06:10 PM
She gave the goddamn match away as usual. I will never forget that match. She had on the most beautiful yellow dress, too.

But that's Venus for you. Expect anything.

BlueTrees
Jun 24th, 2011, 07:27 PM
This match was the first time I'd ever seen Pironkova play. I remember looking at the scoreboard and saw she won the second set 6-0 and I was like WTF. Then I saw the third set and it was thrilling stuff. :drool:

HowardH
Jun 24th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Basically, Pironkova's problem is that she has awful technique on the fh. It's the bane of her life. Sure, she gets some big wins, on good days. But because of her wonky fh technique she has a lot more bad days than most players. She also hits very flat, even on the bh, and her serve is questionable.

She's a tremendous ball striker though, with great hand-eye, and when she's on she can hit flat winners left and right. Good athlete too. Hence her ability to get big wins. It's just that, due to her technical shortcomings, she can only do this when playing, say, at close to 100% (ie awesome timing).

By comparison, a player with good technique can probably have a day where the timing is a few percent off and get away with it. Whereas on a day like that Pironkova will lose to almost anyone. She has no in between. She's either red hot or she's going to be awful. Players like that actually prefer playing top players, since they have no choice but to play their A game. Whereas against a lesser player, they would like to have a slightly less risky way of winning, but in Tsvetana's case, it doesn't exist.

I like to compare bad technique to walking on a balance beam. You can do it, but the slightest mistake and you fall. Whereas using good technique is like walking on a wide bridge. You have a lot more margin for safety, and you can absorb little mistakes.

Grass kind of suits Tsvetana's flat shots and her tendency to slice her fh (which is not variety, but simply an inability to topspin certain shots on her fh).

On another note, I always wish that Tsvetana would wear some cuter outfits on court. Off court she's a stunner, but she doesn't seem to pick very flattering on court outfits.

vwfan
Jun 26th, 2011, 10:39 AM
Basically, Pironkova's problem is that she has awful technique on the fh. It's the bane of her life. Sure, she gets some big wins, on good days. But because of her wonky fh technique she has a lot more bad days than most players. She also hits very flat, even on the bh, and her serve is questionable.

She's a tremendous ball striker though, with great hand-eye, and when she's on she can hit flat winners left and right. Good athlete too. Hence her ability to get big wins. It's just that, due to her technical shortcomings, she can only do this when playing, say, at close to 100% (ie awesome timing).

By comparison, a player with good technique can probably have a day where the timing is a few percent off and get away with it. Whereas on a day like that Pironkova will lose to almost anyone. She has no in between. She's either red hot or she's going to be awful. Players like that actually prefer playing top players, since they have no choice but to play their A game. Whereas against a lesser player, they would like to have a slightly less risky way of winning, but in Tsvetana's case, it doesn't exist.

I like to compare bad technique to walking on a balance beam. You can do it, but the slightest mistake and you fall. Whereas using good technique is like walking on a wide bridge. You have a lot more margin for safety, and you can absorb little mistakes.

Grass kind of suits Tsvetana's flat shots and her tendency to slice her fh (which is not variety, but simply an inability to topspin certain shots on her fh).

On another note, I always wish that Tsvetana would wear some cuter outfits on court. Off court she's a stunner, but she doesn't seem to pick very flattering on court outfits.thanks. very helpful assessment.

I hope then she is having an off day on Monday and Venus serves well! not looking forward to this match at all. :tape:

BlueTrees
Jun 27th, 2011, 03:52 PM
I can't. :hysteric:

poulao
Jun 27th, 2011, 04:03 PM
See for youre self http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJbsE2AKgpc Enjoy! :)

BlueTrees
Jun 27th, 2011, 06:18 PM
If only the OP knew when he started this thread that at the next two Wimbledons Pironkova would thrash Venus 6-2 6-3. :rolls:

Hurley
Jun 27th, 2011, 06:20 PM
She has no game and no forhard whatsoever.

Looks like her forhard is still torbulsome for Vnuf.

Sally Todd
Jun 27th, 2011, 06:21 PM
Vee. :bigcry:

Pironkova has been hit with the Venus curse big time now though. :devil:

Truth. The photo in your signature: :hysteric:

BlueTrees
Jun 27th, 2011, 06:24 PM
Can't wait to bump this again at Wimbledon next year. :oh:

Horizon
Jun 27th, 2011, 08:12 PM
It was just another Fluke. :yeah:
3 flukes then... hmm :lol:

BlueTrees
Jun 28th, 2011, 03:22 PM
I will die if they play at the London Olympics. :spit:

lizchris
Jun 28th, 2011, 03:31 PM
If only the OP knew when he started this thread that at the next two Wimbledons Pironkova would thrash Venus 6-2 6-3. :rolls:
I am a she and just because she beat Venus twice at Wimbledon doesn't mean she is going to win the whole thing. She'll be gone by the end of the day or the end of the day Thursday.

TZVETI83
Jun 28th, 2011, 03:35 PM
I am a she and just because she beat Venus twice at Wimbledon doesn't mean she is going to win the whole thing. She'll be gone by the end of the day or the end of the day Thursday.

God you are a bitter Betty trolling all the Tzveti threads complaining and saying how she is a fluke and a failure. What have you accomplished in your life buddy:confused:

BlueTrees
Jun 28th, 2011, 03:43 PM
I am a she and just because she beat Venus twice at Wimbledon doesn't mean she is going to win the whole thing. She'll be gone by the end of the day or the end of the day Thursday.

Someone's bitter. :spit:

lizchris
Jun 28th, 2011, 04:05 PM
Someone's bitter. :spit:

No someone is correct.

lizchris
Jun 28th, 2011, 04:07 PM
God you are a bitter Betty trolling all the Tzveti threads complaining and saying how she is a fluke and a failure. What have you accomplished in your life buddy:confused:
Quite a bit.

If you have a problem with what I said, I started the thread a**hole; no one told you to post.

BlueTrees
Jun 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM
No someone is correct.

Yep. And it's not you. :wavey: