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trivfun
Sep 1st, 2009, 03:49 PM
When I think of Venus Williams struggles particularly in the first round and how she tries to power her way through slumps. I think of a former New York Met player named Dave Kingman. This guy stood 6'6 and could hit a baseball a good long ways when he made contact but when he missed he was awful. He used to swing at every pitch in the book. This is how I feel about Venus Williams in her first round dramas. This isn't the only one.


1999 Australian Open
TALAJA, SILVIJA (CRO) 82 W 3-6 6-3 9-7

2006 Australian Open
PIRONKOVA, TSVETANA (BUL) 94 L 2-6 6-0 9-7

1997 French Open
SAWAMATSU, NAOKO (JPN) 45 W 6-2 6-7(2) 7-5

2008 French Open
OBZILER, TZIPORA (ISR) 93 W 6-3 4-6 6-2

2009 French Open
MATTEK-SANDS, BETHANIE (USA) 45 W 6-1 4-6 6-2

1997 Wimbledon
GRZYBOWSKA, MAGDALENA (POL) 91 L 4-6 6-2 6-4

2007 Wimbledon
UDRYAVTSEVA, ALLA (RUS) 59 W 2-6 6-3 7-5

1997 U.S. Open
NEILAND, LARISA (LAT) 112 W 5-7 6-0 6-1

2009 U.S. Open

DUSHEVINA, VERA (RUS)W 6-7 (5-7), 7-5, 6-3

The Witch-king
Sep 1st, 2009, 05:50 PM
You know it's funny because sometimes when she loses people go on about how passive and defensive she was and people complain that she's not aggressive enough anymore.... And then she has a ballbashing fest like this one it's Venus has no plan b brainless etc etc ....
And let us not forget when she is winning how everyone is full of praise......
So i'm not sure who this Venus Williams everyone seems to have an opinio is. To me she plays differently depending on how confident she is, the surface, time of year, tournament. You can't put her in one box like that.

nelsondan
Sep 1st, 2009, 06:15 PM
Dave Kingman had a lifetime batting average of .236. That is not very high.

In 16 seasons, he played on a team which played in the post season once---1971, his first year. He had 1 single in 9 times at bat. In 1979, he finished in 11th place in the most valuable player voting--his highest rank ever.

I would suggest you choose a different player to compare with a multi-champion grand slam winner like Venus. Lots of really great players sometimes swing hard.

trivfun
Sep 1st, 2009, 06:39 PM
On Grass courts, she plays a smooth power game. Her movement and confidence is phenomenal as well as her consistency and her thinking. On hard courts since 2004, her game has become all reactionary particularly when things don't go right.

I think she should put more muscle in that she should zero in area to hit the ball instead of reacting to her opponents's shot, go for more shots off the second serve and more body serves. Which she did in her last game with Vera.

trivfun
Sep 1st, 2009, 11:18 PM
I do like how she goes after a player's strength first then go after a players's weakness when oppurtuntiy comes. That is a Chris Evert's technique. Just zone in to one area.

V's a star
Sep 1st, 2009, 11:23 PM
You know it's funny because sometimes when she loses people go on about how passive and defensive she was and people complain that she's not aggressive enough anymore.... And then she has a ballbashing fest like this one it's Venus has no plan b brainless etc etc ....
And let us not forget when she is winning how everyone is full of praise......
So i'm not sure who this Venus Williams everyone seems to have an opinio is. To me she plays differently depending on how confident she is, the surface, time of year, tournament. You can't put her in one box like that.

thats very true of her since last year

DefyingGravity
Sep 1st, 2009, 11:27 PM
Silvia Talaja!!!!?????

WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT ONE?

trivfun
Oct 22nd, 2009, 04:36 PM
Power ball.

Super Dave
Oct 22nd, 2009, 06:37 PM
Dave Kingman had a lifetime batting average of .236. That is not very high.

In 16 seasons, he played on a team which played in the post season once---1971, his first year. He had 1 single in 9 times at bat. In 1979, he finished in 11th place in the most valuable player voting--his highest rank ever.

I would suggest you choose a different player to compare with a multi-champion grand slam winner like Venus. Lots of really great players sometimes swing hard.

Kingman was a strange one. He hit 35 HR in the final year of his career (1986), and no one wanted him. He homered for 4 different teams in 1977 - the Yankees, Padres, Angels, and Mets. In 1982, he had 37 HR, 99 RBI...and batted .204. And once he hit a pop-up so high that it ripped a hole in the Metrodome.

Oh, and he pitched in college and pitched 4 innings for the Giants in '72.

colt13
Oct 22nd, 2009, 07:23 PM
Way to suck me into a thread. Even though Stosur has now won a singles title, her singles career is a much closer comparison than Venus. The big serve equaling Kingman's HR power, the all surface/net play equalling his ability to play 3b, 1b, of and p.

Sheepindabigcity, you are right, there really isn't much of a pattern of losses in regular tournaments, though the Williams playing/losing on the same day in slams seems to affect Venus more than Serena.

Machi
Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:55 AM
Dave Kingman was also with the Chicago Cubs.

Vyacheslavovna
Oct 23rd, 2009, 11:14 AM
Venus "King Kong" Williams?

He was blessed with one of the best nicknames ever.

Volcana
Oct 23rd, 2009, 01:09 PM
Your observations on Venus are not incorrect, (except for one BIG one) but you picked the wrong player. Venus has seven slam singles, titles, 41 singles titles overall, either 17 or 18 overall slam titles, three Olympic Gold medals and a Fed Cup.


And sometimes, she totally bombs out in big spots.


She's more Alex Rodriguez than Dave Kingman. Even that anoalgy is loose. Venus hasn't been the best player on tour since 2001. But for more of the period since than not, she's been one of the best players. But not a lot more often than not. If you one of the best player 65% of the time, after you were the best player, you usually don't play any sport another eight years, except maybe auto or horse racing.


You know who Venus is? She's Bret Farve.

NOTE: THe wrong observation is that Venus tries to 'power her way out of slumps'. To my eye, that's exactly what she DOESN'T do. Venus tries to lower her unforced errors out of slumps, and all that does is let the opponents into matches.