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Wannabeknowitall
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:02 AM
:worship: :bounce: :inlove:

Eagles all the way!!! 2009-2010

See I told yall someone would sign Michael Vick regardless of one Upper Midwest native poster loathing him.

I'm so gonna skip my plans of stalking Marat Safin at the US Open to uh appreciate Michael Vick's athletic (backside) abilities.

Praise the football gods.
Finally some eye candy on the Eagles.

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:16 AM
yes, praise God. Thank goodness for second chances.

Eagles fans are kinda rough though...whew. I hope they give him a chance. :help:

Bijoux0021
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:17 AM
Good for the Eagles. I hated what Vick did to those poor dogs. I hope he regretted his actions and understood how evil they were. He has done his time; he paid for his crimes. He deserves a second chance.

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:20 AM
Good for the Eagles. I hated what Vick did to those poor dogs. I hope he regretted his actions and understood how evil they were. He has done his time; he paid for his crimes. He deserves a second chance.

AMEN. I hope he has a whole new set of friends.

Bijoux0021
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:21 AM
yes, praise God. Thank goodness for second chances.

Eagles fans are kinda rough though...whew. I hope they give him a chance. :help:
Just as all fans, if he plays well, they will forgive and maybe forget. If he sucks, they will no doubt give him a very hard time.

Bijoux0021
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:09 AM
By the way, it's not just the Eagles' fans and other NFL fans that Vick is going to have to worry about the most...It’s the animal’s rights activists whom no matter what will not want to give him a second chance. Some of those people are real nuts. They don't even want people to kill flies, ants and mosquitoes. To me, that's beyond crazy. They overshadow the great work that they do every day, which is helping and saving real animals.

Ryan
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:23 AM
Good choice for the Eagles. They got him at a STEAL of $1.6 mill for one year, with option for more. Not a bad price, and I think the fans will treat him fine. Great for Vick, who should be happy anyone will take him, and good for the Eagles who needed someone with Mcnabb sucking hard.

*JR*
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:27 AM
Updated: August 13, 2009, 10:06 PM ET
Vick, Eagles agree to 2-year deal

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Vick arrived in Philadelphia Tuesday morning and remained there Wednesday evening. The Eagles will hold a news conference on Friday morning to announce his signing. The first year of the deal is for $1.6 million with an option for the second year at $5.2 million, FoxSports.com reports...
__________________________________________________ _________

I guess the prick deserves the right 2B a backup for a couple of years, but should only get paid the league minimum for the 6 year NFL veteran he is (between $620,000 and $650,000 as of last year. I liked owner Jeff Lurie for strongly defending Donovan McNabb in the Limbaugh controversy a few years ago. I have (because even the guaranteed year is more than 250% of the league minimum here) lost all respect for Jeff Lurie. :spit:

Kounselor Kiwi may no longer be the biggest Eagles hater on this board. :fiery:

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:35 AM
By the way, it's not just the Eagles' fans and other NFL fans that Vick is going to have to worry about the most...It’s the animal’s rights activists whom no matter what will not want to give him a second chance. Some of those people are real nuts. They don't even want people to kill flies, ants and mosquitoes. To me, that's beyond crazy. They overshadow the great work that they do every day, which is helping and saving real animals.

All I have to say is let them come to philly.

I got a little something for them PETA pricks. :armed:

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:41 AM
Updated: August 13, 2009, 10:06 PM ET
Vick, Eagles agree to 2-year deal

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Vick arrived in Philadelphia Tuesday morning and remained there Wednesday evening. The Eagles will hold a news conference on Friday morning to announce his signing. The first year of the deal is for $1.6 million with an option for the second year at $5.2 million, FoxSports.com reports...
__________________________________________________ _________

I guess the prick deserves the right 2B a backup for a couple of years, but should only get paid the league minimum for the 6 year NFL veteran he is (between $620,000 and $650,000 as of last year. I liked owner Jeff Lurie for strongly defending Donovan McNabb in the Limbaugh controversy a few years ago. I have (because even the guaranteed year is more than 250% of the league minimum here) lost all respect for Jeff Lurie. :spit:

Kounselor Kiwi may no longer be the biggest Eagles hater on this board. :fiery:

I've actually gained respect for Jeffrey Lurie.

Usually he's a cheap fuck like most of the GMs in Philadelphia in the last decade or so which happened to be part of the reason why Philly hasn't won much in the last 25 years.

I love McNabb but I don't have that much faith that he will be injured free all season.
Hopefully he will prove me wrong but if he doesn't then I would rather have Vick running the show than that waste of space Kobb (Feely is a better QB IMO).
I think it's a very smart move.

darrinbaker00
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:12 AM
I'd be very surprised if the Eagles list Vick as a quarterback on their roster this season. They would be better off listing him as a running back and using him in Wildcat formations. If the Eagles list him as their #3 quarterback and use him in a game, they lose their other two quarterbacks for the rest of the game.

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:32 AM
Updated: August 13, 2009, 10:06 PM ET
Vick, Eagles agree to 2-year deal

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Vick arrived in Philadelphia Tuesday morning and remained there Wednesday evening. The Eagles will hold a news conference on Friday morning to announce his signing. The first year of the deal is for $1.6 million with an option for the second year at $5.2 million, FoxSports.com reports...
__________________________________________________ _________

I guess the prick deserves the right 2B a backup for a couple of years, but should only get paid the league minimum for the 6 year NFL veteran he is (between $620,000 and $650,000 as of last year. I liked owner Jeff Lurie for strongly defending Donovan McNabb in the Limbaugh controversy a few years ago. I have (because even the guaranteed year is more than 250% of the league minimum here) lost all respect for Jeff Lurie. :spit:

Kounselor Kiwi may no longer be the biggest Eagles hater on this board. :fiery:

why don't you think he should get a second chance?

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:33 AM
I'd be very surprised if the Eagles list Vick as a quarterback on their roster this season. They would be better off listing him as a running back and using him in Wildcat formations. If the Eagles list him as their #3 quarterback and use him in a game, they lose their other two quarterbacks for the rest of the game.

please explain.

SOA_MC
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:35 AM
Vick did his time and he is free move on with his life

But I don't like this, the Eagles don't need another freak circus show atmosphere following them around all season

darrinbaker00
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:50 AM
please explain.
For each game, NFL teams are allowed to dress 45 players plus an emergency quarterback, who can only play if the starter and backup are injured and unable to play.

In The Zone
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:53 AM
The man paid his dues. How exactly do we punish someone if we won't allow them the opportunity to redeem themselves?

He was punished once, time for his life to move on. Hopefully when he does play, he plays well.

Donny
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:55 AM
God dammit. I am NOT rooting for the Eagles, Vick or not.

In The Zone
Aug 14th, 2009, 04:57 AM
God dammit. I am NOT rooting for the Eagles, Vick or not.

The Giants will get some payback this year.

*JR*
Aug 14th, 2009, 05:04 AM
why don't you think he should get a second chance?
Plz re-read my post. I think he should, but only @ the league minimum salary for a guy with his (6 years, '01 thru '06) experience.

Re. the Eagles, Lurie made a whole big thing about character in declaring the Eagles not interested in Vick after he was declared eligible. Not only is Jeff a liar, but he's probably going to pay a guy who should kiss the ground to make the roughly $1.3M minimum if he plays both years more than 5 times that.

Wannabe cares only that a team wins, not how. (I guess had Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire been playing for the Phillies while hitting doping enhanced homers, he'd have had no problem with that. Maybe it would take a player killing his wife for said poster to judge him first as a person). :shrug:

crazylace01
Aug 14th, 2009, 05:06 AM
here's hoping the eagles actually win something this year :p

Wigglytuff
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:21 AM
he completed his grossly light sentence and got his slap on the wrist. but its more an example of how little regard the society has as a whole for animal welfare despite that the known fact that people who abuse animals also tend to become a danger to people by beating women and children. not to mention the fact that children who abuse animals have a high likelihood of because murders and serial killers. HOPEFULLY, if anyone does this in the future they will get more than a few months in jail and a slap on the wrist.

meyerpl
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:46 AM
Hey, give the man a break, nobody is perfect. Mike is just a little quirky because he gets his kicks from watching dogs tear each other apart. I mean, we all have our idiosyncrasies. Some people like to garden, others collect balls of twine, Mike likes to inflict unimaginable suffering on animals. That doesn't make him a bad guy. I'm sure there are plenty of good, solid, honorable men just like Mike who have hung dogs by their neck, doused tham with water and electrocuted them. The important thing is, he's sorry.

doni1212
Aug 14th, 2009, 07:49 AM
he completed his grossly light sentence and got his slap on the wrist. but its more an example of how little regard the society has as a whole for animal welfare despite that the known fact that people who abuse animals also tend to become a danger to people by beating women and children. not to mention the fact that children who abuse animals have a high likelihood of because murders and serial killers. HOPEFULLY, if anyone does this in the future they will get more than a few months in jail and a slap on the wrist.

He got 23 months in jail while there are people out here who hit/beat human beings (like Chris Brown) and get community service (scrubbing off spray paint, and picking up trash, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) THAT is a slap on the wrist!!!

Oh, and I guess you would view hunting as a legit sporting hobby even though hunters actually kill animals...and the law says THAT's LEGAL!! People can't have it both ways. Hunting should be illegal, just as dog fighting is.
But whatever man...


Congrats to Michael Vick!! Hopefully you won't be punished twice by the Commissioner but I have a feeling you will be, :rolleyes: :sad:

meyerpl
Aug 14th, 2009, 11:57 AM
He got 23 months in jail while there are people out here who hit/beat human beings (like Chris Brown) and get community service (scrubbing off spray paint, and picking up trash, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) THAT is a slap on the wrist!!!

Oh, and I guess you would view hunting as a legit sporting hobby even though hunters actually kill animals...and the law says THAT's LEGAL!! People can't have it both ways. Hunting should be illegal, just as dog fighting is. But whatever man...


Congrats to Michael Vick!! Hopefully you won't be punished twice by the Commissioner but I have a feeling you will be, :rolleyes: :sad:If you can't see the difference you have some serious deficits.

2Black
Aug 14th, 2009, 12:01 PM
I AM SO ROOTING FOR VICK!!! I am also praying that he stays on the right track ... Not just rebounding from the dog fighting but the marijuana use as well. So glad Donovan is sticking up for him. Donovan was very impressive in the press conf after the game

kiwifan
Aug 14th, 2009, 02:25 PM
Eagle fans are such meatheads that they'll probably beat up the PETA protesters...

...and then boo Mike Vick (like making barking noises whenever he has the ball) themselves. :devil:

Mike did his time, the whole dog fighting thing is/was disgusting but the bottom line is once we've convicted and punished the man (what other dog fighter is going to lose more than Vick did?) all that we can ask as a society is that he not commit any other crimes and if he can hold up his end of the "social contract"...he deserves his life back. :shrug:

Of course if he ever scores a point against America's Team, all my rational opinions above may be subject to change. ;)

*JR*
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:12 PM
He got 23 months in jail while there are people out here who hit/beat human beings (like Chris Brown) and get community service (scrubbing off spray paint, and picking up trash, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) THAT is a slap on the wrist!!!

Oh, and I guess you would view hunting as a legit sporting hobby even though hunters actually kill animals...and the law says THAT's LEGAL!! People can't have it both ways. Hunting should be illegal, just as dog fighting is.
But whatever man...
I agree re. Chris, but his own stupid gf asked for leniency and wants to get back together, right? :scratch:

I don't do hunt (or pretend to, as Gore and Kerry both did during their campaigns) but won't condemn those who do. (Otherwise these animals would kill others and/or starve to death. I do draw the line @ the use of legtraps, etc. though.)

BTW, the MILF actually cooks what she shoots, so nobody except vegans should condemn her for that. And the arial wolf shooting in Alaska prevents caribou, etc. from being (painfully, of course) torn to shreds by wolfpacks.


Mike did his time, the whole dog fighting thing is/was disgusting but the bottom line is once we've convicted and punished the man (what other dog fighter is going to lose more than Vick did?) all that we can ask as a society is that he not commit any other crimes and if he can hold up his end of the "social contract"...he deserves his life back. :shrug:
A life yes, the life he had B4, no. Thats why I said he should only get the league minimum for his experience level; I hope he'll have the decency to donate the difference to charity (esp. animal welfare ones) but don't exactly expect that.

Yes Counselor, he fell further than anyone else involved, but thats because he was on such a high perch to begin with. (This is like Bernie Madoff having had a great career as a NASDAQ co-founder, etc. and then "getting greedy". I guess Madoff fell the furthest of anyone in that Federal Prison.) :shrug:

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 14th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Eagle fans are such meatheads that they'll probably beat up the PETA protesters...

...and then boo Mike Vick (like making barking noises whenever he has the ball) themselves. :devil:

Mike did his time, the whole dog fighting thing is/was disgusting but the bottom line is once we've convicted and punished the man (what other dog fighter is going to lose more than Vick did?) all that we can ask as a society is that he not commit any other crimes and if he can hold up his end of the "social contract"...he deserves his life back. :shrug:

Of course if he ever scores a point against America's Team, all my rational opinions above may be subject to change. ;)

First of all to call us meatheads just because we don't 100% agree with the retarded views of PETA is insulting.
I'm not eating ice cream with a women's breast milk just because PETA feels it's better for animals.
I'm not letting a mouse go if it's caught on a mouse trap in my house.
And like Mary J. Blige, if you throw red paint on my fur coat, I will beat your ass until you see red.

I've wanted pitbulls to be illegal (for kids) in Philadelphia for years because of our dog fighting history and because usually the wrong people think they can control them
Generalizing an animal though because of a human's need to use them as a weapon and sport is wrong though.

Just this year, a friend of mines got a pitbull from a friend who could not keep him in his apartment anymore.
The dog is a sweetheart except for his habit of biting into hard plastics.
I got Vali a toy from a store downtown Philly to change that habit though.

I love dogs. Actually I treat some of the dogs better than my friends who have the dogs.
But I just don't agree with a system that seems to punish a sadistic action of a human against an animal sometimes over an unexcusable action of a human against a human.

Luckily there are people like Roger Goodell who can see the light and have punished Michael Vick but not as much as former Eagle Stallworth regardless of what our lopsided justice system wants.

Vlover
Aug 14th, 2009, 05:39 PM
If you can't see the difference you have some serious deficits.
Sorry meyerpl, I for one can't see the difference either. They both claim to be killing animals as a "sport". For me the purpose is the same, killing animals for the thrill of it even though you might consider one method more gruesome than the other. I don't believe killing for the fun of it should be condoned at all.

In any case, Vick complied with the law and is now free to earn a living and continue with his life like any other citizen who have been released from prison. This is the "free market" that America prides it self on so the Eagles is free to pay what they want for his service.:shrug:

mykarma
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:10 PM
God dammit. I am NOT rooting for the Eagles, Vick or not.
:lol:

mykarma
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:12 PM
he completed his grossly light sentence and got his slap on the wrist. but its more an example of how little regard the society has as a whole for animal welfare despite that the known fact that people who abuse animals also tend to become a danger to people by beating women and children. not to mention the fact that children who abuse animals have a high likelihood of because murders and serial killers. HOPEFULLY, if anyone does this in the future they will get more than a few months in jail and a slap on the wrist.
I don't think the sentence was light at all. Personally I think he got a longer term to set an example for others.

mykarma
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Sorry meyerpl, I for one can't see the difference either. They both claim to be killing animals as a "sport". For me the purpose is the same, killing animals for the thrill of it even though you might consider one method more gruesome than the other. I don't believe killing for the fun of it should be condoned at all.

In any case, Vick complied with the law and is now free to earn a living and continue with his life like any other citizen who have been released from prison. This is the "free market" that America prides it self on so the Eagles is free to pay what they want for his service.:shrug:
Good post

comfortably.numb
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:21 PM
Sorry meyerpl, I for one can't see the difference either. They both claim to be killing animals as a "sport". For me the purpose is the same, killing animals for the thrill of it even though you might consider one method more gruesome than the other. I don't believe killing for the fun of it should be condoned at all.

In any case, Vick complied with the law and is now free to earn a living and continue with his life like any other citizen who have been released from prison. This is the "free market" that America prides it self on so the Eagles is free to pay what they want for his service.:shrug:
This. There is no difference and the fact that meyerpl can't see is shows that he, in fact, has serious deficits.

Good for Vick. I'm very happy he got a second chance and good luck to him and the Eagles!

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 14th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I'm wearing my Calvin Hobbes pissing on a Cowboy logo today just for you kiwi. :wavey:

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 14th, 2009, 07:22 PM
I don't think the sentence was light at all. Personally I think he got a longer term to set an example for others.

child molesters don't get as much time as he did.

*JR*
Aug 14th, 2009, 08:46 PM
child molesters don't get as much time as he did.
While this is sadly true, thats generally because of lack of evidence, not light sentencing. (Many kids who were victims only come forward years later, when the statute of limitations has expired)

Besides, does the fact that X got away with one crime unpunished mean that Y should get a break in his or her sentencing for another crime?
:confused:

Donny
Aug 15th, 2009, 03:21 AM
The Giants will get some payback this year.

They'd better. There's a Eagles fan who lives across the street who turns his yard completely green every time the Eagles win something. :( It's sickening to see.

doni1212
Aug 15th, 2009, 06:53 PM
If you can't see the difference you have some serious deficits.

What's the difference?!! :weirdo:

Sorry meyerpl, I for one can't see the difference either. They both claim to be killing animals as a "sport". For me the purpose is the same, killing animals for the thrill of it even though you might consider one method more gruesome than the other. I don't believe killing for the fun of it should be condoned at all.

In any case, Vick complied with the law and is now free to earn a living and continue with his life like any other citizen who have been released from prison. This is the "free market" that America prides it self on so the Eagles is free to pay what they want for his service.:shrug:

Exactly!

I don't think the sentence was light at all. Personally I think he got a longer term to set an example for others.

Very true, :yeah:

kris719
Aug 15th, 2009, 08:40 PM
To me as a dog owner and animal lover, I found Michael Vick's actions despicable, horrific, and disgusting. I mean seriously, anyone who read the report of what he did to those dogs cannot help but feel disgusted. HOWEVER the guy served his time and will serve his suspension from the NFL. There are guys around the league and around society who have killed humans and gotten off lighter than Vick, some of whom are still playing in the NFL. I think Vick's punishment has been enough and he should be given a chance to come back and earn a living.

And honestly, I don't agree with Goodell's additional suspension for up to six games this season. Enough is enough. it's time for him come back and try again. I thought his presser yesterday was very good. he appeared remorseful and humbled by his second chance opportunity. no notes, no script, no teleprompter. it's time to put this behind us and let him come back.

IF he screws up again however, that will be it for Michael Vick. And i think he understands that.

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 01:32 AM
Sorry meyerpl, I for one can't see the difference either. They both claim to be killing animals as a "sport". For me the purpose is the same, killing animals for the thrill of it even though you might consider one method more gruesome than the other. I don't believe killing for the fun of it should be condoned at all.

In any case, Vick complied with the law and is now free to earn a living and continue with his life like any other citizen who have been released from prison. This is the "free market" that America prides it self on so the Eagles is free to pay what they want for his service.:shrug:I thought the differences are obvious but apparently not, so I'll do the best I can. In dog fighting, the objective is to pit two animals against each other to inflict pain and injury on each other in a spectacle that sometimes lasts for hours and serves no purpose other than entertainment. In hunting, the objective is to make a clean, quick kill. Hunting is an important management tool to prevent overpopulation, starvation and disease. Dog fighting is not a management tool. I doubt that Michael Vick or his fellow sadists ate the dogs they killed. Hunting is a highly valued source of food for hunters. Those are some of the differences. Anyone who decries hunting as cruel but eats meat that has been commercially raised and processed has it backwards. The animals that end up on a hunter's table are spared the cruel treatment and misery that the animals that end up in our stores and restaurants are forced to endure.

I never said the man shouldn't get a second chance but excuse me if I don't become a fan. The things he did to those dogs require personal characteristics, like sadism, that are highly unlikely to change. A prison sentence doesn't change a man's character.

Wigglytuff
Aug 17th, 2009, 01:52 AM
I thought the differences are obvious but apparently not, so I'll do the best I can. In dog fighting, the objective is to pit two animals against each other to inflict pain and injury on each other in a spectacle that sometimes lasts for hours and serves no purpose other than entertainment. In hunting, the objective is to make a clean, quick kill. Hunting is an important management tool to prevent overpopulation, starvation and disease.

LOL I hope you are just saying that to be funny.

HUMANE Euthanasia is a clean and quick kill. suffering for minutes to hours while one bleeds to death from a gunshot wound is NOT humane.

hunting is a sport and a cruel and inhumane one. even people who do it know thats what it is because they would NEVER hunt cats or dogs in areas of over population. the ONLY reason they get away with it is that the animals they hunt are not "pets" but the fact that HUNTING CATS AND DOGS is illegal in the same way dog fighting is illegal speaks for itself. :wavey:

In The Zone
Aug 17th, 2009, 01:55 AM
To me as a dog owner and animal lover, I found Michael Vick's actions despicable, horrific, and disgusting. I mean seriously, anyone who read the report of what he did to those dogs cannot help but feel disgusted. HOWEVER the guy served his time and will serve his suspension from the NFL. There are guys around the league and around society who have killed humans and gotten off lighter than Vick, some of whom are still playing in the NFL. I think Vick's punishment has been enough and he should be given a chance to come back and earn a living.

And honestly, I don't agree with Goodell's additional suspension for up to six games this season. Enough is enough. it's time for him come back and try again. I thought his presser yesterday was very good. he appeared remorseful and humbled by his second chance opportunity. no notes, no script, no teleprompter. it's time to put this behind us and let him come back.

IF he screws up again however, that will be it for Michael Vick. And i think he understands that.

I agree 100%.

They'd better. There's a Eagles fan who lives across the street who turns his yard completely green every time the Eagles win something. :( It's sickening to see.

In Brooklyn? :eek: That man has some nerve. :o

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:04 AM
LOL I hope you are just saying that to be funny.

HUMANE Euthanasia is a clean and quick kill. suffering for minutes to hours while one bleeds to death from a gunshot wound is NOT humane.

hunting is a sport and a cruel and inhumane one. even people who do it know thats what it is because they would NEVER hunt cats or dogs in areas of over population. the ONLY reason they get away with it is that the animals they hunt are not "pets" but the fact that HUNTING CATS AND DOGS is illegal in the same way dog fighting is illegal speaks for itself. :wavey:Most of the deer I've seen shot were dead within seconds. Most game birds that are shot are dead before they hit the ground. While a clean, quick kill is not always achieved, it is always the objective in hunting. But that's beside the point, I was responding to the notion that there is no difference between hunting and dog fighting.

What would you suggest as an alternative to deer hunting in the U.S.? Have you ever seen a starving deer? I can assure you it's a lot sadder than seeing a deer shot with a high powered rifle.

*JR*
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:07 AM
Anyone who decries hunting as cruel but eats meat that has been commercially raised and processed has it backwards. The animals that end up on a hunter's table are spared the cruel treatment and misery that the animals that end up in our stores and restaurants are forced to endure.
"You're gonna see anti-hunting, anti-Second Amendment circuses from Hollywood,'' the outgoing governor said. "They use Alaska as a fundraising tool for their anti-Second Amendment causes... Hollywood needs to know: 'We eat, therefore we hunt.''

http://m2.wnymedia.net/files/2009/07/sarah_palin_gun.jpg

comfortably.numb
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:50 AM
I thought the differences are obvious but apparently not, so I'll do the best I can. In dog fighting, the objective is to pit two animals against each other to inflict pain and injury on each other in a spectacle that sometimes lasts for hours and serves no purpose other than entertainment. In hunting, the objective is to make a clean, quick kill. Hunting is an important management tool to prevent overpopulation, starvation and disease. Dog fighting is not a management tool. I doubt that Michael Vick or his fellow sadists ate the dogs they killed. Hunting is a highly valued source of food for hunters. Those are some of the differences. Anyone who decries hunting as cruel but eats meat that has been commercially raised and processed has it backwards. The animals that end up on a hunter's table are spared the cruel treatment and misery that the animals that end up in our stores and restaurants are forced to endure.

I never said the man shouldn't get a second chance but excuse me if I don't become a fan. The things he did to those dogs require personal characteristics, like sadism, that are highly unlikely to change. A prison sentence doesn't change a man's character.I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm curious as to how do you feel about cock fighting, bull fighting, and the treatment of dogs in Asian, Hispanic, and African countries respectively? I particularly want to know your opinion on how dogs are treated in certain areas outside the US.

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 03:40 AM
I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm curious as to how do you feel about cock fighting, bull fighting, and the treatment of dogs in Asian, Hispanic, and African countries respectively? I particularly want to know your opinion on how dogs are treated in certain areas outside the US.I'm opposed to any form of cruelty to animals for entertainment or any kind of mistreatment of animals. I don't regard killing animals for food in a humane way as cruelty. There are certain methods of hunting I'm opposed to and hunting purely for trophies rubs me the wrong way. I am not opposed to raising livestock in a humane manner for food or keeping animals as pets, provided they're well cared for. I have taught my sons to hunt and stress to them the ethical treatment of animals, bothe wild and domestic. Those concepts, in my view, are not in opposition to each other.

HippityHop
Aug 17th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Plz re-read my post. I think he should, but only @ the league minimum salary for a guy with his (6 years, '01 thru '06) experience.
Re. the Eagles, Lurie made a whole big thing about character in declaring the Eagles not interested in Vick after he was declared eligible. Not only is Jeff a liar, but he's probably going to pay a guy who should kiss the ground to make the roughly $1.3M minimum if he plays both years more than 5 times that.

Wannabe cares only that a team wins, not how. (I guess had Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire been playing for the Phillies while hitting doping enhanced homers, he'd have had no problem with that. Maybe it would take a player killing his wife for said poster to judge him first as a person). :shrug:

What is this thing with folks who are not paying his salary worrying about how much he makes? Let the guy who writes the checks handle that.

Ellen Dawson
Aug 17th, 2009, 09:59 AM
Debt to society? Paid.

Or was his imprisonment a publicity stunt for the NFL?

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 01:05 PM
What is this thing with folks who are not paying his salary worrying about how much he makes? Let the guy who writes the checks handle that.Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries.

HippityHop
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:45 PM
Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries.

Do you really think that fans can pay all of those huge salaries? How? Certainly ticket sales don't cover them. And non-fans use products that advertisers who support those teams sell also.

I'm not sure that you are correct about that at all. You might be but I don't think you can support it with facts.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2009, 02:58 PM
Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries.
NFL players are not government officials that are paid for by the people. Fans have no more say in what athletics make as movie goers have in how much an actor/actress makes. This is this man's career and his salary is nobody's business.

*JR*
Aug 17th, 2009, 03:22 PM
NFL players are not government officials that are paid for by the people. Fans have no more say in what athletics make as movie goers have in how much an actor/actress makes. This is this man's career and his salary is nobody's business.
The relevance of Vick's salary isn't who pays it, but whether its consistent with his being on a sort of informal probation with the public. (Charles Barkley once famously said that athletes aren't role models, but in reality it "comes with the territory", especially given the high % of kids growing up without fathers present)

FWIW, the average league minimum for a player of his seniority (around $650,000 a year I believe) would still put him in the top 1% of all Americans. And while he'll never get much (if any) endorsement income, he can certainly make a few million from a tell-all autobiography.

harloo
Aug 17th, 2009, 04:04 PM
NFL players are not government officials that are paid for by the people. Fans have no more say in what athletics make as movie goers have in how much an actor/actress makes. This is this man's career and his salary is nobody's business.

I can't believe some people are outraged about a 1.3 million two year contract. When you consider day-to-day expenses and taxes the Eagles signed Vick for a bargain. If anything these people are upset with the Eagles decision to give Vick a chance of redemption. They would prefer to see him homeless or dead.

I always find it intriguing when someone pays their debt to society but yet the public considers them sub-human and unworthy of employment after being released. Yet, the same people wonder why those who have been incarcerated for years repeat the same cycle once they reenter society.

Vick has served his two years for the crime committed. He was the poster child for dog fighting when the sport has been around for centuries. He no longer owes animal lovers anything. Certainly I wish him the best of luck. At least he has the option to make a decent living whereas those who I've assisted had a difficult time obtaining employment.

Keep ya head up Michael!!

kris719
Aug 17th, 2009, 04:10 PM
in other news, Vick cried in jail :eek: :eek:

time to let him back in.

spartanfan
Aug 17th, 2009, 04:42 PM
So I guess all those people who have a problem with Michael Vick playing also had a problem with Dany Heatley who killed his friend in his Ferrari while speeding and drinking and were out protesting his NHL games as well? To me this smell of RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Yes, I said it RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Heatley recked his convertible Ferrari while driving at a high rate of speed and KILLED Dan Snyder and charged with vehicular homicide. Not one protest, not one day of prison time, not one day of suspension from the NHL. I find it amazing the latitude of ones skin color can still afford you here in the USA. Where was the outrage when this happened? This wasn't some dog, this was a MAN, this was someone's SON and no one said a word. RACIAL HYPOCRICY.

comfortably.numb
Aug 17th, 2009, 04:56 PM
I'm opposed to any form of cruelty to animals for entertainment or any kind of mistreatment of animals. I don't regard killing animals for food in a humane way as cruelty. There are certain methods of hunting I'm opposed to and hunting purely for trophies rubs me the wrong way. I am not opposed to raising livestock in a humane manner for food or keeping animals as pets, provided they're well cared for. I have taught my sons to hunt and stress to them the ethical treatment of animals, bothe wild and domestic. Those concepts, in my view, are not in opposition to each other.
So, in your opinion, an African who treat dogs simply as an animal used for protecting their crops vs. a pet is sadistic? For example, this African (who, just for context, is starving, sick, and impoverished) refuses to feed his dog or even pet it. This African hits the dog with sticks, throws rocks at the animal and is abusive to the animal, in the American sense, when the dog doesn't follow instructions. Is he as reproachable and sadistic as Michael Vick?

comfortably.numb
Aug 17th, 2009, 05:09 PM
So I guess all those people who have a problem with Michael Vick playing also had a problem with Dany Heatley who killed his friend in his Ferrari while speeding and drinking and were out protesting his NHL games as well? To me this smell of RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Yes, I said it RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Heatley recked his convertible Ferrari while driving at a high rate of speed and KILLED Dan Snyder and charged with vehicular homicide. Not one protest, not one day of prison time, not one day of suspension from the NHL. I find it amazing the latitude of ones skin color can still afford you here in the USA. Where was the outrage when this happened? This wasn't some dog, this was a MAN, this was someone's SON and no one said a word. RACIAL HYPOCRICY.
I heard of this. There wasn't as much outrage. And while I find it ridiculous, I wouldn't call it racial hypocrisy. Donte’ Stallworth recently plead guilty to DUI Manslaughter and served all of 30 days in jail and there wasn't much outrage (media-wise) about that either. IMO, in high profile cases like this, it's more about how money can buy you out of a crime, not about race. :shrug:

spartanfan
Aug 17th, 2009, 05:40 PM
I heard of this. There wasn't as much outrage. And while I find it ridiculous, I wouldn't call it racial hypocrisy. Donte’ Stallworth recently plead guilty to DUI Manslaughter and served all of 30 days in jail and there wasn't much outrage (media-wise) about that either. IMO, in high profile cases like this, it's more about how money can buy you out of a crime, not about race. :shrug:
There was plent of media outrage over this. Stallworth also is currently indefinitely suspended from the NFL, under two years of house arrest and has 8 years of probation. What did Heatley get for killing someone? A slap on the wrist, no jail time what so ever and a $3000 fine. It was a joke.

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 06:17 PM
So, in your opinion, an African who treat dogs simply as an animal used for protecting their crops vs. a pet is sadistic? For example, this African (who, just for context, is starving, sick, and impoverished) refuses to feed his dog or even pet it. This African hits the dog with sticks, throws rocks at the animal and is abusive to the animal, in the American sense, when the dog doesn't follow instructions. Is he as reproachable and sadistic as Michael Vick?If you hit an animal with sticks, throw stones at it and refuse to feed it, you are abusing that animal. Now, if you can't afford to feed yourself or your family, desperate times can dictate that you can't afford to feed your animals. But beating a dog with sticks and stones is wrong in my view (and completely unnecessary), regardless of whether it is culturally acceptable, just as beating your wife is wrong, even if it's culturally acceptable.

meyerpl
Aug 17th, 2009, 06:24 PM
NFL players are not government officials that are paid for by the people. Fans have no more say in what athletics make as movie goers have in how much an actor/actress makes. This is this man's career and his salary is nobody's business.Certainly they have no say, but they do have an interest. Without fans attending the games and watching on T.V. there would be no NFL, no revenue and no salaries. Ticket prices have soared with player salaries. The question was, why do fans care. That's why they care. That constitutes an interest.

HippityHop
Aug 17th, 2009, 06:33 PM
Certainly they have no say, but they do have an interest. Without fans attending the games and watching on T.V. there would be no NFL, no revenue and no salaries. Ticket prices have soared with player salaries. The question was, why do fans care. That's why they care. That constitutes an interest.

But that wasn't your argument initially. Your argument was and I quote, "Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries".

HippityHop
Aug 17th, 2009, 06:37 PM
The relevance of Vick's salary isn't who pays it, but whether its consistent with his being on a sort of informal probation with the public. (Charles Barkley once famously said that athletes aren't role models, but in reality it "comes with the territory", especially given the high % of kids growing up without fathers present)

FWIW, the average league minimum for a player of his seniority (around $650,000 a year I believe) would still put him in the top 1% of all Americans. And while he'll never get much (if any) endorsement income, he can certainly make a few million from a tell-all autobiography.

But does it really? As Charles Krautheimer said yesterday, this business of athletes as role models is so 1950s. And he's right. Even in the 1950s, had there been the sort of press and media that we have nowadays, people would have long ago disavowed this "athletes as role models" foolishness.

mykarma
Aug 17th, 2009, 06:53 PM
[/B]

But that wasn't your argument initially. Your argument was and I quote, "Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries".
Thanks Hippityhop, I had to go back and read what I was initially responding to based on the response I received from meyerpl. :lol:

Vlover
Aug 17th, 2009, 07:59 PM
I thought the differences are obvious but apparently not, so I'll do the best I can. In dog fighting, the objective is to pit two animals against each other to inflict pain and injury on each other in a spectacle that sometimes lasts for hours and serves no purpose other than entertainment. In hunting, the objective is to make a clean, quick kill. Hunting is an important management tool to prevent overpopulation, starvation and disease. Dog fighting is not a management tool. I doubt that Michael Vick or his fellow sadists ate the dogs they killed. Hunting is a highly valued source of food for hunters. Those are some of the differences. Anyone who decries hunting as cruel but eats meat that has been commercially raised and processed has it backwards. The animals that end up on a hunter's table are spared the cruel treatment and misery that the animals that end up in our stores and restaurants are forced to endure.

I never said the man shouldn't get a second chance but excuse me if I don't become a fan. The things he did to those dogs require personal characteristics, like sadism, that are highly unlikely to change. A prison sentence doesn't change a man's character.
As noted, myself included not everyone is versed on animal killings for entertainment purposes. Good that you are able to rationalize the differences to justify hunting but I don't buy the arguement that most people who shoot animals for sport actually eat their kill. In my eyes the end results are the same regarless of the methods used therefore we disagree and have no problem there. Anyway what I fail to understand is why so many people are upset that he is allowed to work again.:confused:

As far as I'm concern, this is the "free market" at work and the eagles is a private organization and free to hire who they want and for what price. Likewise fans have a free choice to support the eagles or not therefore I don't understand what the problem is unless there is something else at work here.:confused: Also this is not about character flaws but justice. Does anyone who completed a prison sentence not able to work again?:tape:

*JR*
Aug 17th, 2009, 09:14 PM
I can't believe some people are outraged about a 1.3 million two year contract. When you consider day-to-day expenses and taxes the Eagles signed Vick for a bargain. If anything these people are upset with the Eagles decision to give Vick a chance of redemption. They would prefer to see him homeless or dead.
First off, your numbers are simply wrong. Its 1.6 million (guaranteed) for the first year, and 5.2 million for the second year, if the Eagles exercise their option for that. (1.3 million for 2 years combined is roughly what he'd have gotten if it was the league minimum based on his # of years played)

And I can't speak for others, but don't want him homeless or dead. Though he's gonna hear a lot taunting and will have to turn the other cheek. (I hope that none of it is racial in any way)

But does it really? As Charles Krautheimer said yesterday, this business of athletes as role models is so 1950s. And he's right. Even in the 1950s, had there been the sort of press and media that we have nowadays, people would have long ago disavowed this "athletes as role models" foolishness.
I guess in Charlie's wealthy Chevy Chase (MD) the children in single parent households have step-parents, visitation with the ex-spouse, extended families, tutors, etc. Let him spend some time 10 - 20 miles away in various inner city DC neighborhoods where the kids don't have all that, and maybe he'll rethink this. :shrug: BTW, its Krauthammer. ;)

kris719
Aug 17th, 2009, 11:19 PM
So I guess all those people who have a problem with Michael Vick playing also had a problem with Dany Heatley who killed his friend in his Ferrari while speeding and drinking and were out protesting his NHL games as well? To me this smell of RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Yes, I said it RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Heatley recked his convertible Ferrari while driving at a high rate of speed and KILLED Dan Snyder and charged with vehicular homicide. Not one protest, not one day of prison time, not one day of suspension from the NHL. I find it amazing the latitude of ones skin color can still afford you here in the USA. Where was the outrage when this happened? This wasn't some dog, this was a MAN, this was someone's SON and no one said a word. RACIAL HYPOCRICY.

umm no. it's because nobody cares about the NHL compared to the NFL. Vick is a much more well known person than Heatley is, therefore more people are going to care about what he did.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:32 AM
umm no. it's because nobody cares about the NHL compared to the NFL. Vick is a much more well known person than Heatley is, therefore more people are going to care about what he did.
Then how do you reconcile that with the fact that the Humane Society KILLS hundreds of dogs each and every day when they are not adopted? What's the difference really? How many people out there protesting and saying Vick shouldn't be given a second chance have adoped one of these dogs? Small percentage I'd bet. Again its nothing more than RACIAL HYPOCRICY. It was nothing more than wanting to teach that wealthy BLACK MAN a lesson. Plain and Simple.

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:57 AM
Plz re-read my post. I think he should, but only @ the league minimum salary for a guy with his (6 years, '01 thru '06) experience.

Re. the Eagles, Lurie made a whole big thing about character in declaring the Eagles not interested in Vick after he was declared eligible. Not only is Jeff a liar, but he's probably going to pay a guy who should kiss the ground to make the roughly $1.3M minimum if he plays both years more than 5 times that.


Wannabe cares only that a team wins, not how. (I guess had Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire been playing for the Phillies while hitting doping enhanced homers, he'd have had no problem with that. Maybe it would take a player killing his wife for said poster to judge him first as a person). :shrug:

Darren Dalton and Lenny Dykstra obviously did steroids in the 90s and they were not people I looked up to when the Phillies made the world series in '93.
Someone like John Kruk was though.
As far as I know Michael Vick hasn't done anything that would make him a cheater in his sport.
So I really have no idea why you would use those two baseball players.

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:59 AM
Then how do you reconcile that with the fact that the Humane Society KILLS hundreds of dogs each and every day when they are not adopted? What's the difference really? How many people out there protesting and saying Vick shouldn't be given a second chance have adoped one of these dogs? Small percentage I'd bet. Again its nothing more than RACIAL HYPOCRICY. It was nothing more than wanting to teach that wealthy BLACK MAN a lesson. Plain and Simple.

why must everything be about race?

I don't like the fact that dogs are killed but i suppose they must do it since they have a limited space for their dogs. common sense? :shrug: and i don't get what this has to do with Vick raising dogs to fight and then electrocuting/drowning/throwing them against the ground/bashing their skulls when they don't.

Ellen Dawson
Aug 18th, 2009, 09:22 AM
I can't believe some people are outraged about a 1.3 million two year contract. When you consider day-to-day expenses and taxes the Eagles signed Vick for a bargain. If anything these people are upset with the Eagles decision to give Vick a chance of redemption. They would prefer to see him homeless or dead.

I always find it intriguing when someone pays their debt to society but yet the public considers them sub-human and unworthy of employment after being released. Yet, the same people wonder why those who have been incarcerated for years repeat the same cycle once they reenter society.

Vick has served his two years for the crime committed. He was the poster child for dog fighting when the sport has been around for centuries. He no longer owes animal lovers anything. Certainly I wish him the best of luck. At least he has the option to make a decent living whereas those who I've assisted had a difficult time obtaining employment.

Keep ya head up Michael!!

Thank you! You'd think it was Michael that created the hobby. :rolleyes: For me, the bottom line is that Michael paid his debt to society. He was looking for work, he's an athlete (and a damn good one) and the Eagles remembered that. Y'all know that if the Eagles go all the way and get that ring that all will be forgiven. That's the hypocrisy. :tape:

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 01:11 PM
[/B]

But that wasn't your argument initially. Your argument was and I quote, "Fans have an interest in how much money professional athletes make because, ultimately, the fans pay all their salaries".I have an interest in the price of gasoline too, although I have no say in the matter. I'm a driver, and without drivers, there would be no market for gasoline.

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 01:14 PM
As noted, myself included not everyone is versed on animal killings for entertainment purposes. Good that you are able to rationalize the differences to justify hunting but I don't buy the arguement that most people who shoot animals for sport actually eat their kill. In my eyes the end results are the same regarless of the methods used therefore we disagree and have no problem there. Anyway what I fail to understand is why so many people are upset that he is allowed to work again.:confused:

As far as I'm concern, this is the "free market" at work and the eagles is a private organization and free to hire who they want and for what price. Likewise fans have a free choice to support the eagles or not therefore I don't understand what the problem is unless there is something else at work here.:confused: Also this is not about character flaws but justice. Does anyone who completed a prison sentence not able to work again?:tape:I'm not expecting anyone to change their mind about hunting, but to say there is no difference between hunting and dog fighting is ignoring the facts. And again, if you really want to be cruel, if you want to see suffering on a large scale, just eliminate deer hunting.

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 01:20 PM
Then how do you reconcile that with the fact that the Humane Society KILLS hundreds of dogs each and every day when they are not adopted? What's the difference really? How many people out there protesting and saying Vick shouldn't be given a second chance have adoped one of these dogs? Small percentage I'd bet. Again its nothing more than RACIAL HYPOCRICY. It was nothing more than wanting to teach that wealthy BLACK MAN a lesson. Plain and Simple.Really? What's the differenca between the Human Society and Michael Vick? You cannot be serious. You can't see the difference between euthenizing unwanted cats and dogs and torturing dogs for entertainment?

mykarma
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:30 PM
why must everything be about race?

I don't like the fact that dogs are killed but i suppose they must do it since they have a limited space for their dogs. common sense? :shrug: and i don't get what this has to do with Vick raising dogs to fight and then electrocuting/drowning/throwing them against the ground/bashing their skulls when they don't.
you tell us

HippityHop
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:44 PM
First off, your numbers are simply wrong. Its 1.6 million (guaranteed) for the first year, and 5.2 million for the second year, if the Eagles exercise their option for that. (1.3 million for 2 years combined is roughly what he'd have gotten if it was the league minimum based on his # of years played)

And I can't speak for others, but don't want him homeless or dead. Though he's gonna hear a lot taunting and will have to turn the other cheek. (I hope that none of it is racial in any way)


I guess in Charlie's wealthy Chevy Chase (MD) the children in single parent households have step-parents, visitation with the ex-spouse, extended families, tutors, etc. Let him spend some time 10 - 20 miles away in various inner city DC neighborhoods where the kids don't have all that, and maybe he'll rethink this. :shrug: BTW, its Krauthammer. ;)

Well, I certainly didn't grow up in wealthy circumstances and it never crossed my mind to have an athlete as a role model. Of course I did come from an intact home although we were poor as a church mouse.
But even in my childhood days of the 50s and 60s athletes were just that athletes.

But I'm one of those who thinks that since I'm not all that special, others can do what I did. If I didn't hold athletes as role models I don't see why others should. But to each his own.

HippityHop
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:51 PM
I have an interest in the price of gasoline too, although I have no say in the matter. I'm a driver, and without drivers, there would be no market for gasoline.

A better analogy to your original argument would be that ultimately drivers pay the salaries of the stars in the energy industry since there is no stand alone gasoline industry that I'm aware of.

But since you need to win the argument I'll concede. :)

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:52 PM
why must everything be about race?

I don't like the fact that dogs are killed but i suppose they must do it since they have a limited space for their dogs. common sense? :shrug: and i don't get what this has to do with Vick raising dogs to fight and then electrocuting/drowning/throwing them against the ground/bashing their skulls when they don't.
But is what he did really worth the amount of prison time he did? Hardly. And the bottom line is that dogs/animals are still killed by the HUMANE SOCIETY. Where are the picket lines outside their headquarters? And not everyone feels the same way about dogs/cats. Some love them like family members, some people have no problem putting them on the grill and feeding their families with them. Again I have yet to hear why no one had a problem with the NHL player getting off scott free when he killed his teammate. Vick kills a couple dogs and he's suddenly an enemy of the state.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 02:56 PM
I like animals more than Mr Vick, so I don't think he deserves anything anymore. I don't give second chances to people who don't deserve it. It was no accident that he screwed up that first chance, so I don't understand any1 who thinks he should get another. He chose to mess up. It wasn't like he was cornered and pressured into doing this.

HippityHop
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:02 PM
I like animals more than Mr Vick, so I don't think he deserves anything anymore. I don't give second chances to people who don't deserve it. It was no accident that he screwed up that first chance, so I don't understand any1 who thinks he should get another. He chose to mess up. It wasn't like he was cornered and pressured into doing this.

I certainly could not care less if Vick plays again or not since I'm not the biggest football fan in the world. It's extraneous noise to me.

However I'm curious. Do you hold murderers of human beings to the same standard? Many, some on this very board even, do not.

(It says something that I had to put human beings in that statement lest some not get it.)

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:03 PM
But is what he did really worth the amount of prison time he did? Hardly. And the bottom line is that dogs/animals are still killed by the HUMANE SOCIETY. Where are the picket lines outside their headquarters? And not everyone feels the same way about dogs/cats. Some love them like family members, some people have no problem putting them on the grill and feeding their families with them. Again I have yet to hear why no one had a problem with the NHL player getting off scott free when he killed his teammate. Vick kills a couple dogs and he's suddenly an enemy of the state.

I don't consider people who kill humane period... but I know I am the minority when it comes to animal slaughter, particularly for meat, and I'm not expecting to convert anyone.
And the way you worded the last two sentences sounds as tho you think the NHL player was evil, but Vick was fine to kill "a couple dogs". Do you think both were wrong, or only the NHL player???

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:11 PM
I certainly could not care less if Vick plays again or not since I'm not the biggest football fan in the world. It's extraneous noise to me.

However I'm curious. Do you hold murderers of human beings to the same standard? Many, some on this very board even, do not.

(It says something that I had to put human beings in that statement lest some not get it.)

To me, murder is murder. I have two sisters, one is my older sister (she's 20) and one is my younger sister (she's a shih-tzu). I would be equally upset about something happening to either of the them, and feel the same way about murderers of humans and of animals.

I have come to accept that insects get crushed and swished by accident all the time, I just think they got the bad deal when it comes to evolution

if I'm ever really down on a given day, the first thing my friends ask me is "Did you crush a snail again???" :sad:

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:20 PM
I like animals more than Mr Vick, so I don't think he deserves anything anymore. I don't give second chances to people who don't deserve it. It was no accident that he screwed up that first chance, so I don't understand any1 who thinks he should get another. He chose to mess up. It wasn't like he was cornered and pressured into doing this.

okay so what should happen to him then? if he shouldn't be allowed to pursue a living, what do you suggest should be done to him?

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:23 PM
I don't consider people who kill humane period... but I know I am the minority when it comes to animal slaughter, particularly for meat, and I'm not expecting to convert anyone.
And the way you worded the last two sentences sounds as tho you think the NHL player was evil, but Vick was fine to kill "a couple dogs". Do you think both were wrong, or only the NHL player???
Yea, you're pretty out there. So according to your high standard everyone who eats meat for lunch, breaksfast and dinner is a monster then? And I guess that you've live a perfect-Jesus like life and have never done a wrong or committed a sin? Doesn't the good book say that God will judge you the same way that you've choose to judge other people? All I'm saying is that you'd better not fuck up or God will get you in the end. Vick has served his debt to society and done 23 months in prison for a stupid act. There are child molesters who don't serve that much prison time. And I'm not saying that either men were evil, but they both acted with free will and with intent.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Yea, you're pretty out there. So according to your high standard everyone who eats meat for lunch, breaksfast and dinner is a monster then? And I guess that you've live a perfect-Jesus like life and have never done a wrong or committed a sin? Doesn't the good book say that God will judge you the same way that you've choose to judge other people? All I'm saying is that you'd better not fuck up or God will get you in the end. Vick has served his debt to society and done 23 months in prison for a stupid act. There are child molesters who don't serve that much prison time. And I'm not saying that either men were evil, but they both acted with free will and with intent.

in a nutshell, yes, I think everyone who eats meat for lunch, breakfast and dinner is a "monster". That's why I don't do it. And I don't know where you got the idea that I believe in God... I didn't preach to you and try to turn you veggie (as I KNOW aren't going to change anything about yourself by what I say to you), I just gave my opinion, so don't try to convert me, please.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 03:34 PM
okay so what should happen to him then? if he shouldn't be allowed to pursue a living, what do you suggest should be done to him?

I have my beliefs about what is right and what is wrong. I also think anything living has rights, which they lose if they do something they know to be evil (that's if Vick DOES think what he did was evil). So I do not believe he has the right to live like anybody else anymore. As I said, I think murder is murder, but I am a minority in thinking that. If I had my way, everyone who kills would be locked up for life.

Note, however, that I do not think Vick is a murderer because he didn't go around shooting the dogs, but he stood by and watched, not trying to stop dogs killing each other. Therefore, I wouldn't treat him any differently from a murder, personally.

Randy H
Aug 18th, 2009, 04:00 PM
What he did was cruel, and what he did was against the law. Eating meat, in most scenarios, is not against the law.

I do believe that people deserve second chances, but as far as I'm concerned, that man should be sitting in jail. He got off way too light for the crime that he committed, and I think it's another example of how someone with "famous" status, or any kind of wealth, gets off with a relative slap on the wrist compared to it being anyone else in society. I certainly wouldn't be supporting his return to the game if I were a fan.

2Black
Aug 18th, 2009, 04:18 PM
America is so hypocritical. America KILLS animals - ALL THE TIME!!! It's what we do. We have dominion.

There is no difference between deer, chicken, etc. & dogs. Hypocrisy to the max. Reminds me of slavery where we used to judge some people as more important than others until we learned ALL people should be treated the SAME. We kill deer like crazy & they look better than dogs. :) We don't even have enough jails to house all the people who kill animals. All this Vick persecution is non-sense.

Mike Vick is a great guy. Just as great as any other person in this country.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 04:44 PM
in a nutshell, yes, I think everyone who eats meat for lunch, breakfast and dinner is a "monster". That's why I don't do it. And I don't know where you got the idea that I believe in God... I didn't preach to you and try to turn you veggie (as I KNOW aren't going to change anything about yourself by what I say to you), I just gave my opinion, so don't try to convert me, please.
Then you must hate pretty much everyone around you then? Do members in your family eat meat? Is your dog on a pesticide and herbicide free diet free from all meat products too? Some how I doubt it. And I wasn't trying to convert you, you have to find Jesus on your own dime, not mine. Just MY opinion.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 04:50 PM
What he did was cruel, and what he did was against the law. Eating meat, in most scenarios, is not against the law.

I do believe that people deserve second chances, but as far as I'm concerned, that man should be sitting in jail. He got off way too light for the crime that he committed, and I think it's another example of how someone with "famous" status, or any kind of wealth, gets off with a relative slap on the wrist compared to it being anyone else in society. I certainly wouldn't be supporting his return to the game if I were a fan.
Child molesters have gotten less time than Vick, where is your outrage? And people kill all types of animals in this country for sport and its not a crime. Does Sarah Palin shoot Alaskan wolves from helicopters? Why isn't she in jail? This is just more hypocricy.

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 04:58 PM
Then you must hate pretty much everyone around you then? Do members in your family eat meat? Is your dog on a pesticide and herbicide free diet free from all meat products too? Some how I doubt it. And I wasn't trying to convert you, you have to find Jesus on your own dime, not mine. Just MY opinion.

oh good lord :rolleyes:

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Then you must hate pretty much everyone around you then? Do members in your family eat meat? Is your dog on a pesticide and herbicide free diet free from all meat products too? Some how I doubt it. And I wasn't trying to convert you, you have to find Jesus on your own dime, not mine. Just MY opinion.

I already told you, I am not out to convert anyone, coz it is a hopeless case. I will do what i feel is the right thing for me. However, I will make sure that the people who do eat meat are not doing so ignorantly. I have been to a slaughterhouse and seen the way the meat arrives on my family's plates. I could never eat pork after seeing a perfectly healthy pig walk into that slaughterhouse, grunting and sniffing the floor, and then watch Mr Butcher fire electricity through its brain, hang it on a hook and send it through all sorts of machinery, eventually ending up being cut to bits. I guess that's butchery for you. If you can watch that process and feel fine about eating pork chops and sausages, you go for it. As for my dog, her mind works simply. She wants the meat! So why would I stop her from eating it? I do not agree with it, but I understand that there is a wide spectrum of opinion on every topic, and I happen to lie with very few others at one extreme.

2Black
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:32 PM
I already told you, I am not out to convert anyone, coz it is a hopeless case. I will do what i feel is the right thing for me. However, I will make sure that the people who do eat meat are not doing so ignorantly. I have been to a slaughterhouse and seen the way the meat arrives on my family's plates. I could never eat pork after seeing a perfectly healthy pig walk into that slaughterhouse, grunting and sniffing the floor, and then watch Mr Butcher fire electricity through its brain, hang it on a hook and send it through all sorts of machinery, eventually ending up being cut to bits. I guess that's butchery for you. If you can watch that process and feel fine about eating pork chops and sausages, you go for it. As for my dog, her mind works simply. She wants the meat! So why would I stop her from eating it? I do not agree with it, but I understand that there is a wide spectrum of opinion on every topic, and I happen to lie with very few others at one extreme.

Then you are a hypocrite as well ... people kill me trying to sound so above/different than everyone else & when you get down to the nuts & bolts of this case, they are just as hypocritical. :help:

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Then you are a hypocrite as well ... people kill me trying to sound so above/different than everyone else & when you get down to the nuts & bolts of this case, they are just as hypocritical. :help:

why am i a hypocrite??? I say I think it's murder, and so I don't murder or support the murdering by eating the meat! And how exactly am i trying to sound "above" you???

doni1212
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:46 PM
So I guess all those people who have a problem with Michael Vick playing also had a problem with Dany Heatley who killed his friend in his Ferrari while speeding and drinking and were out protesting his NHL games as well? To me this smell of RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Yes, I said it RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Heatley recked his convertible Ferrari while driving at a high rate of speed and KILLED Dan Snyder and charged with vehicular homicide. Not one protest, not one day of prison time, not one day of suspension from the NHL. I find it amazing the latitude of ones skin color can still afford you here in the USA. Where was the outrage when this happened? This wasn't some dog, this was a MAN, this was someone's SON and no one said a word. RACIAL HYPOCRICY.

Wow, I never knew that. And yes, it is racial hypocrisy.
He didn't even go to jail after killing a human after drinking and speeding? And Vick got sent to jail for 2 years for dog fighting?!!

The WHITE NHL player didn't even get punished!!

why must everything be about race?


Because white people RARELY get the same punishment as black people unless it's someone like Bernie Madoff? :shrug:

America is so hypocritical. America KILLS animals - ALL THE TIME!!! It's what we do. We have dominion.

There is no difference between deer, chicken, etc. & dogs. Hypocrisy to the max. Reminds me of slavery where we used to judge some people as more important than others until we learned ALL people should be treated the SAME. We kill deer like crazy & they look better than dogs. :) We don't even have enough jails to house all the people who kill animals. All this Vick persecution is non-sense.

Mike Vick is a great guy. Just as great as any other person in this country.

Exactly, :worship:

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 18th, 2009, 05:58 PM
maybe peta and co. should now try and focus their energies into breaking up and prosecuting some of these dog-fighting rings that are still going on as we type. in broad daylight.

man if we saw this sort of outrage everytime time a child is raped and murdered....and the perpetrator released to do it all over again...

just too bad we value the lives of animals over humans (in particular children)in this country.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:06 PM
maybe peta and co. should now try and focus their energies into breaking up and prosecuting some of these dog-fighting rings that are still going on as we type. in broad daylight.

man if we saw this sort of outrage everytime time a child is raped and murdered....and the perpetrator released to do it all over again...

just too bad we value the lives of animals over humans (in particular children)in this country.

I'm sure PETA is on to it already.

The only reason this story got such huge media attention was because of the man involved. Had he raped a child or murdered, I'm sure the uproar would have swamped the attention of this story. And I'm sure he would not have been allowed to play...

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:18 PM
I'm sure PETA is on to it already.

The only reason this story got such huge media attention was because of the man involved. Had he raped a child or murdered, I'm sure the uproar would have swamped the attention of this story. And I'm sure he would not have been allowed to play...

doubtful. the ones in Brooklyn and upstate NY that I was made aware of take place practically every other weekend.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:22 PM
And BTW "Cristiano Ronaldo dos santos aveiro is the most beautiful man alive"??? Please tell me that's sarcastic...??? You don't want to just punch hoim right between the eyes???

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:26 PM
The WHITE NHL player didn't even get punished!!

Because white people RARELY get the same punishment as black people unless it's someone like Bernie Madoff? :shrug:


oh god, not you too :rolleyes:

I don't seem to hear you guys whining about Donte Stallworth's light sentence for killing a man while drunk driving. Do I?

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:30 PM
And BTW "Cristiano Ronaldo dos santos aveiro is the most beautiful man alive"??? Please tell me that's sarcastic...??? You don't want to just punch hoim right between the eyes???

wow that was random.

no I would actually love to :tape:....:lol:

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:33 PM
wow that was random.

no I would actually love to :tape:....:lol:

I'm from Liverpool. He is probably hated (using the word quite correctly) by more people in this city than everywhere else in the world put together!!!

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:37 PM
America is so hypocritical. America KILLS animals - ALL THE TIME!!! It's what we do. We have dominion.

There is no difference between deer, chicken, etc. & dogs. Hypocrisy to the max. Reminds me of slavery where we used to judge some people as more important than others until we learned ALL people should be treated the SAME. We kill deer like crazy & they look better than dogs. :) We don't even have enough jails to house all the people who kill animals. All this Vick persecution is non-sense.

Mike Vick is a great guy. Just as great as any other person in this country.Have you ever known a deer hunter to chain a bunch of deer to tire rims and neglect them except to throw them into a pit together to watch them tear each other apart for laughs?

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:42 PM
Child molesters have gotten less crime than Vick, where is your outrage? And people kill all types of animals in this country for sport and its not a crime. Does Sarah Palin shoot Alaskan wolves from helicopters? Why isn't she in jail? This is just more hypocricy.There are things that can be done to animals that are far more cruel than shooting them. Take a look.........

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM
I'm from Liverpool. He is probably hated (using the word quite correctly) by more people in this city than everywhere else in the world put together!!!

oh that explains it. my chelsea-loving cousins "hate" him too. you can hate him but you can't deny his fabulousness. :worship:

okay let's finish this convo via PM...it kinda seems out of place amid all this seriousness and outrage. :lol:

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 06:55 PM
why am i a hypocrite??? I say I think it's murder, and so I don't murder or support the murdering by eating the meat! And how exactly am i trying to sound "above" you???I'll give you credit for being clear and consistent. I haven't seen any hipocrisy in your posts. I respect your opinions and feelings. How do you feel about killing some animals to prevent more animals from suffering? Do you think euthenizing unwanted cats and dogs is more humane than warehousing them in cages for the rest of their lives? Do you think thinning the deer herd annually is more humane than allowing them to overpopulate and die of disease and starvation?

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:12 PM
I'll give you credit for being clear and consistent. I haven't seen any hipocrisy in your posts. I respect your opinions and feelings. How do you feel about killing some animals to prevent more animals from suffering? Do you think euthenizing unwanted cats and dogs is more humane than warehousing them in cages for the rest of their lives? Do you think thinning the deer herd annually is more humane than allowing them to overpopulate and die of disease and starvation?

It's such a hard thing to decide where you stand with things like that, but back to what you said somewhere up ^^there^^, about the deer hunter vs Michael Vick and co. I know which animal I would rather be. I couldn't imagine going through what those dogs go through. At least the deer don't suffer (usually...or do they, I don't know enough about hunting). Assuming there's no alternative, I would always minimize suffering, if there was no way the cats/dogs or deer would be able to come through it without suffering further and ultimately dying. But I'd hate to have the responsibility of actually being the one who slaughtered them. I hate these scenarios where everything I believe in cancels out everything else! I feel so lost... :sad:

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:16 PM
I already told you, I am not out to convert anyone, coz it is a hopeless case. I will do what i feel is the right thing for me. However, I will make sure that the people who do eat meat are not doing so ignorantly. I have been to a slaughterhouse and seen the way the meat arrives on my family's plates. I could never eat pork after seeing a perfectly healthy pig walk into that slaughterhouse, grunting and sniffing the floor, and then watch Mr Butcher fire electricity through its brain, hang it on a hook and send it through all sorts of machinery, eventually ending up being cut to bits. I guess that's butchery for you. If you can watch that process and feel fine about eating pork chops and sausages, you go for it. As for my dog, her mind works simply. She wants the meat! So why would I stop her from eating it? I do not agree with it, but I understand that there is a wide spectrum of opinion on every topic, and I happen to lie with very few others at one extreme.
:scratch: So...Let me get this straight. You OWN a dog. Why any person feels the need to OWN a dog or cat is beyond me in the first place..but that's another topic (SUGGESTION: Learn to bond and love other human beingS, then you won't feel the need to ENSLAVE another living animal..What is it with certain people and slavery?).. So you rail against Michael Vick for what he does, you don't eat meat (personal choice, no problem), but you still turn around and say that you feed your dog MEAT? :lol:. Look up the word HYPOCRITE please. Cause to me you're talking out your ass at the moment.

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:18 PM
:scratch: So...Let me get this straight. You OWN a dog. Why any person feels the need to OWN a dog or cat is beyond me in the first place..but that's another topic (SUGGESTION: Learn to bond and love other human beingS, then you won't feel the need to ENSLAVE another living animal..What is it with certain people and slavery?).. So you rail against Michael Vick for what he does, you don't eat meat (personal choice, no problem), but you still turn around and say that you feed your dog MEAT? :lol:. Look up the word HYPOCRITE please. Cause to me you're talking out your ass at the moment.

enslave another animal. wtf? :lol: i've got to hand it to you spartanfan, you're giving me a good laugh :lol:

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:19 PM
Wow, I never knew that. And yes, it is racial hypocrisy.
He didn't even go to jail after killing a human after drinking and speeding? And Vick got sent to jail for 2 years for dog fighting?!!

The WHITE NHL player didn't even get punished!!



Because white people RARELY get the same punishment as black people unless it's someone like Bernie Madoff? :shrug:



Exactly, :worship:
It's all true! Racial Hypocricy. And if Ruth Madoff was a different color, she'd be homeless by now, because the government would have seized everything Bernie and Ruth owned.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:20 PM
enslave another animal. wtf? :lol: i've got to hand it to you spartanfan, you're giving me a good laugh :lol:
So tell me then, what the purpose or point of OWNING an animal? Why does any person need to own a cat or dog?

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:20 PM
:scratch: So...Let me get this straight. You OWN a dog. Why any person feels the need to OWN a dog or cat is beyond me in the first place..but that's another topic (SUGGESTION: Learn to bond and love other human beingS, then you won't feel the need to ENSLAVE another living animal..What is it with certain people and slavery?).. So you rail against Michael Vick for what he does, you don't eat meat (personal choice, no problem), but you still turn around and say that you feed your dog MEAT? :lol:. Look up the word HYPOCRITE please. Cause to me you're talking out your ass at the moment.

you clearly don't see dogs the way I do. (and btw I have more than one and they are far from enslaved. Plus, if they weren't with me they would still be in cages in the animal shelter). My shih-tzu is my sister and just like I wouldn't stop my human sister eating meat, I won't stop my dog from doing it!!! I am including my dog when I say I don't want to convert anyone.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:22 PM
I'll give you credit for being clear and consistent. I haven't seen any hipocrisy in your posts. I respect your opinions and feelings. How do you feel about killing some animals to prevent more animals from suffering? Do you think euthenizing unwanted cats and dogs is more humane than warehousing them in cages for the rest of their lives? Do you think thinning the deer herd annually is more humane than allowing them to overpopulate and die of disease and starvation?
HELLO! They feed the dog they OWN meat! How is that being consistent about fair treatment to animals and being repulsed by meat? :lol: It's called being a hypocrite and talking out of both sides of your ass.

2Black
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:23 PM
why am i a hypocrite??? I say I think it's murder, and so I don't murder or support the murdering by eating the meat! And how exactly am i trying to sound "above" you???

Why? For one, because you feed your dog meat. If you're so above it, you shouldn't be buying it or giving meat to your pet(s). Don't feed us excuses why you HAVE to do it because it has a simple mind. If you're so adamant about your position, go ahead & abandon your family since they participate in the process by buying & eating meat. A hypocrite is a hypocrite. You don't get an exception.

Have you ever known a deer hunter to chain a bunch of deer to tire rims and neglect them except to throw them into a pit together to watch them tear each other apart for laughs?

Have you ever known deer to be killed for no reason at all? Have you ever known deer to be killed just to be shown as a trophy head? Have you ever known chicken to be slaughtered, mutated & abused? What about the cows, fish & birds? Do you really wanna go there?

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:24 PM
So tell me then, what the purpose or point of OWNING an animal? Why does any person need to own a cat or dog?

I didn't start the whole owning-animals thing. Are you suggesting we should take all animals from shelters and throw them back into the wild??? You think that would work??? I got my pets out of those shelters so they would be able to be fed, watered, played with and have regular exercise and generally be an animal!! Or as close to it as possible. I am against animals being kept out of their natural habitat and would urge people to stop doing it!! But as we cannot turn back time to when animals were first "enslaved" (hmmm...), we have to deal with what our sons-of-bitches of ancestors have left us with, a bloody big mess!

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:26 PM
So tell me then, what the purpose or point of OWNING an animal? Why does any person need to own a cat or dog?

Are you going to argue with all 69 million households who own pets or are all those people perpetuating slavery as well?

I am not going to get into the benefits of having a dog, cat, or whatever because you have already proven to be incapable of processing reason.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:28 PM
you clearly don't see dogs the way I do. (and btw I have more than one and they are far from enslaved. Plus, if they weren't with me they would still be in cages in the animal shelter). My shih-tzu is my sister and just like I wouldn't stop my human sister eating meat, I won't stop my dog from doing it!!! I am including my dog when I say I don't want to convert anyone.
Explain it to me then please. Why do you OWN a dog? Is it to fill an empty void in your life? Why does anyone need to own a cat or dog? Don't you think all animals would rather be free than trapped in someones house or apartment or chained to a fence? To me that cruelty to animals, plain and simple. Do you really think that your dogs can't survive without you? Do you think they enjoy being enslaved for your personal gratification? Are you really that lonely of a person?

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Why? For one, because you feed your dog meat. If you're so above it, you shouldn't be buying it or giving meat to your pet(s). Don't feed us excuses why you HAVE to do it because it has a simple mind. If you're so adamant about your position, go ahead & abandon your family since they participate in the process by buying & eating meat. A hypocrite is a hypocrite. You don't get an exception.



Have you ever known deer to be killed for no reason at all? Have you ever known deer to be killed just to be shown as a trophy head? Have you ever known chicken to be slaughtered, mutated & abused? What about the cows, fish & birds? Do you really wanna go there?
Thank you! Finally a person of reason!

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Why? For one, because you feed your dog meat. If you're so above it, you shouldn't be buying it or giving meat to your pet(s). Don't feed us excuses why you HAVE to do it because it has a simple mind. If you're so adamant about your position, go ahead & abandon your family since they participate in the process by buying & eating meat. A hypocrite is a hypocrite. You don't get an exception.



Have you ever known deer to be killed for no reason at all? Have you ever known deer to be killed just to be shown as a trophy head? Have you ever known chicken to be slaughtered, mutated & abused? What about the cows, fish & birds? Do you really wanna go there?

My family are aware that I do not like their choice of eating meat. However, I understand there is a difference of opinion, which you are failing to understand. THEY accompanied me to the slaughterhouse I mentioned before, and they came out shaken up, but have continued to eat meat. I hve not, and do not understand why they do. I give my pet meat because she is no longer in the wild where she can acquire it herself. And as I continue to tell you, I am all about freedom of choice!!! And that applies to dogs too. I bet you know which bowl she'd go to if one had meat in and the other didn't

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Explain it to me then please. Why do you OWN a dog? Is it to fill an empty void in your life? Why does anyone need to own a cat or dog? Don't you think all animals would rather be free than trapped in someones house or apartment or chained to a fence? To me that cruelty to animals, plain and simple. Do you really think that your dogs can't survive without you? Do you think they enjoy being enslaved for your personal gratification? Are you really that lonely of a person?

I think we may have a high ranking member of PETA infiltrating the system people.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Explain it to me then please. Why do you OWN a dog? Is it to fill an empty void in your life? Why does anyone need to own a cat or dog? Don't you think all animals would rather be free than trapped in someones house or apartment or chained to a fence? To me that cruelty to animals, plain and simple. Do you really think that your dogs can't survive without you? Do you think they enjoy being enslaved for your personal gratification? Are you really that lonely of a person?

check post #114

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Are you going to argue with all 69 million households who own pets or are all those people perpetuating slavery as well?

I am not going to get into the benefits of having a dog, cat, or whatever because you have already proven to be incapable of processing reason.

Sounds to me like you have no good reason for anyone to own animals either.:lol: It has nothing to do with my ability to understand anything. You're just incapable of articulating any humane reason for owning another animal. Dumbass.:lol:
Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter if one person does it or 69 million people do it. Wrong is still wrong.

Ryan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:34 PM
Wow, I never knew that. And yes, it is racial hypocrisy.
He didn't even go to jail after killing a human after drinking and speeding? And Vick got sent to jail for 2 years for dog fighting?!!

The WHITE NHL player didn't even get punished!!



Because white people RARELY get the same punishment as black people unless it's someone like Bernie Madoff? :shrug:



Exactly, :worship:



Its so sad that you walk around with such a big chip on your shoulder every day.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:40 PM
check post #114
So you're just following the crowd is your reasoning? Would that be your response if we were discussing human slaves then?:scratch:

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Its so sad that you walk around with such a big chip on your shoulder every day.
You wouldn't feel that way if you were BLACK and actually LIVED in the United States.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:00 PM
So you're just following the crowd is your reasoning? Would that be your response if we were discussing human slaves then?:scratch:

If that's what you got from what I said, then you didn't read it.

These animals have been domesticated. You CANNOT just throw them back into the wild and expect them to survive 5 minutes.

Any pet I have had has come from a shelter. MY reasoning for owning a dog is that it is less cruel to keep an animal in your home (where I agree it shouldn't belong), than having it locked up in a shelter with very little quality of life.

I cannot personally solve the problem of "animals as pets". So I try to reduce the extra problem of there being too many animals than people to look after them by taking some in.

What is crueller...

1. Allowing a domesticated animal to live it's life in a shelter where it has NO freedom
2. Throwing such animals back into the wild where they have not learnt to get their own food and WILL starve and WILL die within days or weeks by being killed or starving to death, although they do have unlimited freedom
3. Taking responsibility for such an animal, thereby giving it food, exercise, however limited freedom (although my dogs decide when it is time for a walk/play/and to a certain extent food)

My conscience tells me that "3." is the least cruel, so that's the way I go with it.

And I have already said that it makes no difference whether I am talking about humans or animals

*JR*
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:00 PM
So tell me then, what the purpose or point of OWNING an animal? Why does any person need to own a cat or dog?
The answer Spartanfan would love from a white poster: Because all us trailer trash would love to own slaves (like in "the good old days") and owning animals reminds us honkies of a bygone era. :rolleyes:

The reality (besides that they also bond with "their humans" like we do with them) is far more mundane: that if turned loose, most would die from things like: thirst, starvation, exposure to extreme weather, fights with other animals, getting hit by cars, etc.

Why don't you and Morrissey go organize a tennis chapter of the New Black Panther Party, and execute anyone who dares to root for a white player who happens 2B playing Venus or Serena? :cuckoo:

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Sounds to me like you have no good reason for anyone to own animals either.:lol: It has nothing to do with my ability to understand anything. You're just incapable of articulating any humane reason for owning another animal. Dumbass.:lol:
Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter if one person does it or 69 million people do it. Wrong is still wrong.

What you refuse to accept is that many dogs are treated better domestically than they ever would be in the wild.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:07 PM
The answer Spartanfan would love from a white poster: Because all us trailer trash would love to own slaves (like in "the good old days") and owning animals reminds us honkies of a bygone era. :rolleyes:

The reality (besides that they also bond with "their humans" like we do with them) is far more mundane: that if turned loose, most would die from things like: thirst, starvation, exposure to extreme weather, fights with other animals, getting hit by cars, etc.

Why don't you and Morrissey go organize a tennis chapter of the New Black Panther Party, and execute anyone who dares to root for a white player who happens 2B playing Venus or Serena? :cuckoo:
See I just gave you credit for putting together an intelligent post on Robert Novak and you turn around and racially attack me. What the hell?! The dialogue that MBM and I were having had NOTHING to do with RACE. I think you're the one who's race bating on this issue of animal ownership. I think you're rock is getting lonely, now go crawl back under it.

MBM
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:08 PM
that's it. I'm checking out of this thread 4 good. Coincidentally, I got to go take the dogs out

Spartanfan, you know what I have against you. But we would never be friends anyway. I'm tired of arguing when we both know neither of us is going to see sense in the other's comments BYE BYE

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:09 PM
What you refuse to accept is that many dogs are treated better domestically than they ever would be in the wild.
And just as many aren't. Being "nice" to your captive dog is still not a rational reason for OWNING one.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:11 PM
that's it. I'm checking out of this thread 4 good. Coincidentally, I got to go take the dogs out
MBM, please don't feel like I was attacking you personally. I just think what Michael Vick did is not that much different than those who eat meat or wear leather products or sit on a leather sofa. Or hunt for sport. Or people who own dogs and cats for their personal pleasure.

2Black
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:20 PM
My family are aware that I do not like their choice of eating meat. However, I understand there is a difference of opinion, which you are failing to understand. THEY accompanied me to the slaughterhouse I mentioned before, and they came out shaken up, but have continued to eat meat. I hve not, and do not understand why they do. I give my pet meat because she is no longer in the wild where she can acquire it herself. And as I continue to tell you, I am all about freedom of choice!!! And that applies to dogs too. I bet you know which bowl she'd go to if one had meat in and the other didn't

I perfectly understand but when people say they think Vick should remain in jail because of what he did YET they participate in the process (through whatever means - big or small), I say THEY ARE ALSO HYPOCRITES. It's really not hard to understand at all. My point is - all of us need to come down off our high & mighty attitudes & realize we all have participated in the process of the slaughtered.

HippityHop
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:49 PM
To me, murder is murder. I have two sisters, one is my older sister (she's 20) and one is my younger sister (she's a shih-tzu). I would be equally upset about something happening to either of the them, and feel the same way about murderers of humans and of animals.

I have come to accept that insects get crushed and swished by accident all the time, I just think they got the bad deal when it comes to evolution

if I'm ever really down on a given day, the first thing my friends ask me is "Did you crush a snail again???" :sad:

This is not surprising. But it says a great deal about our society today.

HippityHop
Aug 18th, 2009, 08:51 PM
in a nutshell, yes, I think everyone who eats meat for lunch, breakfast and dinner is a "monster". That's why I don't do it. And I don't know where you got the idea that I believe in God... I didn't preach to you and try to turn you veggie (as I KNOW aren't going to change anything about yourself by what I say to you), I just gave my opinion, so don't try to convert me, please.

It was clear to me that you don't believe in God when you equated your sister to your dog.

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 09:28 PM
See I just gave you credit for putting together an intelligent post on Robert Novak and you turn around and racially attack me. What the hell?! The dialogue that MBM and I were having had NOTHING to do with RACE. I think you're the one who's race bating on this issue of animal ownership. I think you're rock is getting lonely, now go crawl back under it.

haha I seriously busted out laughing at that one... :lol:

let's hear it again:
I think you're the one who's race bating on this issue of animal ownership

now let's review your initial post:

So I guess all those people who have a problem with Michael Vick playing also had a problem with Dany Heatley who killed his friend in his Ferrari while speeding and drinking and were out protesting his NHL games as well? To me this smell of RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Yes, I said it RACIAL HYPOCRICY. Heatley recked his convertible Ferrari while driving at a high rate of speed and KILLED Dan Snyder and charged with vehicular homicide. Not one protest, not one day of prison time, not one day of suspension from the NHL. I find it amazing the latitude of ones skin color can still afford you here in the USA. Where was the outrage when this happened? This wasn't some dog, this was a MAN, this was someone's SON and no one said a word. RACIAL HYPOCRICY.

Thank you for proving what kind of a person you are.

Also, you never answered why you aren't moaning about Donte Stallworth's light penalty for murder but I don't expect you to.

Have a nice day!

Vlover
Aug 18th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Why don't you and Morrissey go organize a tennis chapter of the New Black Panther Party, and execute anyone who dares to root for a white player who happens 2B playing Venus or Serena? :cuckoo:
How is this relevant to the Eagles signing Vick?:( Obviously you have grave racial issues and just interject them at every opportunity you get regardless of the context.:tape: Are you incapable of a rational conversation without feeling "persecuted" by black people?:rolleyes: OMG, one would think black people are about to take over the world and avenge all the injustices perpetrated against them.:weirdo:

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 10:30 PM
Really? What's the differenca between the Human Society and Michael Vick? You cannot be serious. You can't see the difference between euthenizing unwanted cats and dogs and torturing dogs for entertainment?
At the end of the day they both have dead animals on their hands. Dead is dead, regardless of the means.

spartanfan
Aug 18th, 2009, 10:35 PM
haha I seriously busted out laughing at that one... :lol:

let's hear it again:


now let's review your initial post:



Thank you for proving what kind of a person you are.

Also, you never answered why you aren't moaning about Donte Stallworth's light penalty for murder but I don't expect you to.

Have a nice day!
How about you have your mother go read post #58 to your arse and have her explain it too. I call on your mother to do this because either you're incapable of reading or she didn't teach you how to read with comprehension. Now you go have a nice day. Reading is fundamental you know...

mykarma
Aug 18th, 2009, 10:48 PM
oh god, not you too :rolleyes:

I don't seem to hear you guys whining about Donte Stallworth's light sentence for killing a man while drunk driving. Do I?
So are you saying that sentencing under the law is equal for blacks and browns versus whites in our judicial system? Please tell me that you know better than that and you're :rolleyes: just to be an ass.

mykarma
Aug 18th, 2009, 11:00 PM
How is this relevant to the Eagles signing Vick?:( Obviously you have grave racial issues and just interject them at every opportunity you get regardless of the context.:tape: Are you incapable of a rational conversation without feeling "persecuted" by black people?:rolleyes: OMG, one would think black people are about to take over the world and avenge all the injustices perpetrated against them.:weirdo:
Exactly why I have him on ignore and when someone shows his post by responding to him I still don't read them.

kris719
Aug 18th, 2009, 11:23 PM
So are you saying that sentencing under the law is equal for blacks and browns versus whites in our judicial system? Please tell me that you know better than that and you're :rolleyes: just to be an ass.

I never said any such thing. I just don't like when people cry "racial hypocrisy" and then point to an example of Dany Heatley and then pretend incidents like Donte Stallworth did not exist because the very fact of the incident refutes their claim.

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 11:40 PM
So tell me then, what the purpose or point of OWNING an animal? Why does any person need to own a cat or dog?
Mutual pleasure. They become members of the family and enjoy playing and being affectionate with people. Our dog gives and receives immeasurable pleasure to and from my family and friends. And it's good for a person's health to pet, play with and walk a dog or pet a cat. And it helps teach kids responsibility to help care for an animal.

meyerpl
Aug 18th, 2009, 11:44 PM
It's such a hard thing to decide where you stand with things like that, but back to what you said somewhere up ^^there^^, about the deer hunter vs Michael Vick and co. I know which animal I would rather be. I couldn't imagine going through what those dogs go through. At least the deer don't suffer (usually...or do they, I don't know enough about hunting). Assuming there's no alternative, I would always minimize suffering, if there was no way the cats/dogs or deer would be able to come through it without suffering further and ultimately dying. But I'd hate to have the responsibility of actually being the one who slaughtered them. I hate these scenarios where everything I believe in cancels out everything else! I feel so lost... :sad:Thanks. That's a good, honest answer. Life is indeed filled with moral dilemmas.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 12:34 AM
HELLO! They feed the dog they OWN meat! How is that being consistent about fair treatment to animals and being repulsed by meat? :lol: It's called being a hypocrite and talking out of both sides of your ass.Dogs are carnivores, they need to eat meat and cereal to be healthy. People can function quite well on a vegitarian diet. I'm quite certain MBM and I don't see eye to eye about hunting, farming and diet, but MBM seems to be a thoughtful person who is wrestling with the conondrums the world poses for someone who has staked out a position firmly in opposition to killing in any form. MBM has written posts that earnestly state his/her viewpoint and read/responded to other posts respectfully and with an open mind. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated a propensity for derision and flippancy.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Have you ever known deer to be killed for no reason at all? Have you ever known deer to be killed just to be shown as a trophy head? Have you ever known chicken to be slaughtered, mutated & abused? What about the cows, fish & birds? Do you really wanna go there?Yes, I'll go there. In most states, if not all, wasting game is illegal. It is certainly unethical and I won't defend it. I don't know anyone who hunts that way and those who do violate the laws and ethics that define responsible hunting. I also won't defend the abuse of farm animals, in fact I have stated before that hunting is far more humane than a lot of large scale livestock operations.

So, how do these other abuses of animals mitigate Michael Vick's crimes?

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 01:00 AM
MBM, please don't feel like I was attacking you personally. I just think what Michael Vick did is not that much different than those who eat meat or wear leather products or sit on a leather sofa. Or hunt for sport. Or people who own dogs and cats for their personal pleasure.Then you are either a fool or you're pretending to be one. Either way, you aren't worth any more time.

Vlover
Aug 19th, 2009, 01:06 AM
MBM seems to be a thoughtful person who is wrestling with the conondrums the world poses for someone who has staked out a position firmly in opposition to killing in any form.
meyerpl, I honestly don't think that is the main contention of this thread. I also am opposed to killing in any form including "hunting",abortion, death penalty, wars unless in self defense. I haven't see a post that condone's Vick's actions, but defends his right to earn a living like any other free human being. That is the topic of debate and think some choose to conflate the two but I see them as seperate issues. I'm niether a Eagles or Vick fan as I will be cheering against them when they play the Giants but individuals should be treated fairly under the law. The Eagles have the right to hire him and he has the right to play and the fans have the right to not support or support him. That is what happens in a free society.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 01:25 AM
meyerpl, I honestly don't think that is the main contention of this thread. I also am opposed to killing in any form including "hunting",abortion, death penalty, wars unless in self defense. I haven't see a post that condone's Vick's actions, but defends his right to earn a living like any other free human being. That is the topic of debate and think some choose to conflate the two but I see them as seperate issues. I'm niether a Eagles or Vick fan as I will be cheering against them when they play the Giants but individuals should be treated fairly under the law. The Eagles have the right to hire him and he has the right to play and the fans have the right to not support or support him. That is what happens in a free society.I'm not opposed to killing in any form but I certainly respect your position. I also agree with you that Vick has a right to make a living, although I personally wouldn't choose him to represent my organization if I were in that position. I don't feel his penalty was particularly light or excessive, I don't have a problem with that. I don't care if the Eagles want to put him on their payroll, that's their decision. But, like you, I don't have to be a fan.

I don't see anybody out and out defending what Vick did, how could you if you knew the realities of dog fighting. (see link if you don't)http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

What I do see are a number of people minimizing what Vick did by comparing it with hunting, the meat industry, the Humane Society euthinizing abandoned and unwanted pets and pet ownership. I can understand people being opposed to all those things but to equate any of them, especially pet ownership, with throwing two dogs together solely for the purpose of watching them tear each other apart until one is dead is ridiculous.

Wannabeknowitall
Aug 19th, 2009, 02:22 AM
I'm not opposed to killing in any form but I certainly respect your position. I also agree with you that Vick has a right to make a living, although I personally wouldn't choose him to represent my organization if I were in that position. I don't feel his penalty was particularly light or excessive, I don't have a problem with that. I don't care if the Eagles want to put him on their payroll, that's their decision. But, like you, I don't have to be a fan.


Vick is a piece of shit who deserves to eat out of dumpsters for the rest of his life. Vicks acts were, by most people's definition, evil.

One quote contradicts another. :wavey:
That is unless Vick deserves to eat out of dumpsters for the rest of his life can be construed to mean I believe Vick has a right to make out a living.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 02:30 AM
One quote contradicts another. :wavey:
That is unless Vick deserves to eat out of dumpsters for the rest of his life can be construed to mean I believe Vick has a right to make out a living.What I think he deserves and his rights are two different things. I think a child molester deserves to be buried alive but he has a right to a fair trial and humane treatment.

skanky~skanketta
Aug 19th, 2009, 02:45 AM
Hey, give the man a break, nobody is perfect. Mike is just a little quirky because he gets his kicks from watching dogs tear each other apart. I mean, we all have our idiosyncrasies. Some people like to garden, others collect balls of twine, Mike likes to inflict unimaginable suffering on animals. That doesn't make him a bad guy. I'm sure there are plenty of good, solid, honorable men just like Mike who have hung dogs by their neck, doused tham with water and electrocuted them. The important thing is, he's sorry.
Yet, we punish paedophiles. Don't get me wrong, I'm not equating animal abuse to paedophilia, but that's pretty idiosyncratic isn't it. I like you a lot Meyer, but I completely disagree with you here. I hope you were being sarcastic.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 02:58 AM
Yet, we punish paedophiles. Don't get me wrong, I'm not equating animal abuse to paedophilia, but that's pretty idiosyncratic isn't it. I like you a lot Meyer, but I completely disagree with you here. I hope you were being sarcastic.I like you a lot too, she with a quirky user name who frequently makes me laugh. And yes, I was being completely sarcastic! I find Mr. Vick's actions sickening beyond words. I think he's a bad guy.

harloo
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:14 AM
First off, your numbers are simply wrong. Its 1.6 million (guaranteed) for the first year, and 5.2 million for the second year, if the Eagles exercise their option for that. (1.3 million for 2 years combined is roughly what he'd have gotten if it was the league minimum based on his # of years played)


Compared to the 142 million dollars in salary, endorsements, and estimated bonuses he lost this contract is still small change for a player of his caliber. The second year 5.2 million dollar option is promising but more than likely if Vick doesn't produce they'll get rid of him. Most people are just using the "salary issue" as a scapegoat for their outrage that a team actually gave Vick another chance.


And I can't speak for others, but don't want him homeless or dead. Though he's gonna hear a lot taunting and will have to turn the other cheek. (I hope that none of it is racial in any way)

Well, lets just say the majority of those who have an issue with Vick making a living want to see him homeless or better yet dead. If you listen to talk radio, read blogs, and interact with animal lovers these people want retribution. Vick "turning the other cheek" might not be possible considering the stress he'll be under. If Vick starts producing and leads the team to a championship that will silence the mindless hecklers. Otherwise, it's going to be an uphill battle and of course racial insults will be hurled at him. That's the American way!!

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:30 AM
From Dog Fighters:
"In Their Own Words"

Of a "favorite" dog they "loved".

"She was so physically busted up that it was necessary to take the kennel crate apart to get her out of it. We spent the next hour or so desperately trying to save her, but nothing we did helped. Sadie had destroyed her face so badly that her sinuses were crushed, her whole face was pulsing up and down as she breathed and air was bubbling out of the holes on her muzzle and around her eyes. The last thing Jolene did before loosing consciousness entirely was thrown up an incredible amount of blood." The Complete Gamedog" by Ed and Chris Faron.

Here, in their own words, are descriptions of dog fights:

"The fifth fight was against Phil's Little George who was a two time winner and a deep game dog. Virgil experienced some kidney problems in the fourth fight and and in the last two weeks before this match the kidney problems came back. Virgil started out fast and tore a gaping hole in Little George's chest. Within the first ten minutes it looked like he was going to put him away. Then he heated up probably because of the intense kidney infection. Little George started coming back into the fight and got Virgil down for a little while. But the more George tried to put on Virgil, the worse Virgil bit him right back into the gaping hole that he opened in the begining of the fight. As they were standing up battling it out, you could see the blood dripping out of his chest like you turned on the spigot; It had been dripping like this from the beginning of the fight. Little George had weakened and went down. He had a hold of Virgil's leg. Virgil was chewing on his head to get him off and it sounded like he was chewing on his knuckle bone. Phil conceded at forty three minutes to make this win number "5" for Virgil."

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:47 AM
* DOG FIGHTING RING - Barry White is escorted from his home by a Randolph County sheriff's deputy Sunday in connection with a pit bull fighting ring behind his house on Wildwood Road. Authorities found 18 pits when they arrived, one dead and three which later had to be put down because of injuries. Several were fighting when officers got to the scene. Deputies arrested Barry Paul White, 27, 2600 Wildwood Road, after breaking up a dog fight in a homemade ring located behind the address around 2:30 p.m. Hurley said White had lived at the Wildwood Road address for about a month, but said High Point narcotics agents knew of him when he lived at 1211 Carter St. in High Point. A search of court records showed he had numerous charges for felony possession of marijuana and maintaining a vehicle/dwelling place for a controlled substance. Hurley said deputies discovered an approximately 20-foot-in-circumference dog fighting ring made of 2-by-4 boards and plywood near a creek behind the house. The floor of the ring was carpeted. The carpet was soaked in blood. "Some of the dogs still alive were torn all to pieces," Hurley said. "This is the worst I've ever seen as far as cruelty to animals goes." After White was arrested, deputies searched the residence. "There was no furniture in the house," Hurley said. "There were two treadmills used to exercise dogs on and a 50-pound weight attached to a collar the dogs had to drag around to strengthen them up. We also found antibiotics and a staple gun used to patch dogs up and keep them healthy." According to Hurley, deputies also found a safe in the house in which illegal narcotics and money were discovered.

* Arrest warrants for Butler, Ogletree and Watkins have been issued and 23 counts of animal cruelty, a misdemeanor in Georgia have been filed. The 23 emaciated pit bulls were found living in their own waste and half-starved. The dogs were chained to posts without food or water in the back yard of a house at 307 Hill Top Circle. Most of the dogs showed signs of physical abuse and suffering from apparent dog-fighting wounds and easily treatable diseases such as heartworm. Cobb County Animal Control was familiar with the men after they were called to the home by neighbors at the beginning of December 1999. There was concern for the dogs then but there were a lot fewer dogs and none were apparently abused and the men promised to remove the dogs soon. On January 4th a surprise inspection of the home showed that things had grossly deteriorated since the original visit. The 23 pit bulls, several of them puppies, were sheltered only by 55 gallon plastic drums turned on there sides. Several other puppies were stuffed in cages and all the animals were living in their own feces. Three of the dogs were pregnant.

* Schenectady, NY resident Thomas Provencher, who pled guilty last month to running a pet store that served as a front for dog fighting, has been imprisoned for a term of from 2 1/3 to seven years.

A 28-year-old San Jose man is under arrest for alleged dog-fighting. Animal control officers have rescued seven pit bulls, some of them bruised and bitten, and investigators say the suspect had an elaborate set-up for vicious fights. Three pit bull puppies were lucky. They were rescued before they were old enough to go into the fighting ring. Four other adult pit bulls were found in a barn at the entrance to San Jose's Alum Rock Park. Police say the barn contained an arena with seating and lights for commercial dog fights. One of the female adults suffered bites that go into her bones. Yet, before she was sedated -- suffering from intense pain and unable even to walk-- she wagged her tail and greeted her rescuers with docile licks. Police arrested Craig Loren Cox on two felony charges of animal cruelty. Police say he is the caretaker of the barn where the fights were held, and was in charge of the dogs.

"Some of them were bolted down with tractor chain tires, heavy tow chains, to the floor of the stables," said animal services officer Steven Berard. One dog had bruises on its hindquarters. Police say it had been chained down so long it developed sores from being forced to sit. It's been several years since a dog-fighting ring was broken up in San Jose, but animal control officials say that does not mean the fights have not been going on. Animals are often found with injuries typical of commercial dog fights. This most recent bust was the result of a tip. Police say blood splattered on the wall showed that a fight had just occurred. Any spectators were gone by the time they arrived, but the dogs were still there, silent in their pain.

* Man charged with felonies related to dog-fighting
NORFOLK -- A city man was charged Wednesday with felony counts related to dog-fighting and cruelty to animals after a search of his home turned up dogs with severe facial wounds, according to a police spokesman and court documents. Tommie Lee Boose III, 27, of the 1200 block of Bunsen Court, was being held in the city jail. On Feb. 14, a city humane officer responded to an animal cruelty complaint at Boose's home in Norview. He noted four dogs in the back yard, two of which had severe wounds consistent with dog-fighting. The wounds were pus-filled and oozing, the officer reported in an affidavit for a search warrant. The dogs were secured with heavy chains in a yard full of excrement and had no water, the affidavit states.

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:02 AM
* DOG FIGHTING RING - Barry White is escorted from his home by a Randolph County sheriff's deputy Sunday in connection with a pit bull fighting ring behind his house on Wildwood Road. Authorities found 18 pits when they arrived, one dead and three which later had to be put down because of injuries. Several were fighting when officers got to the scene. Deputies arrested Barry Paul White, 27, 2600 Wildwood Road, after breaking up a dog fight in a homemade ring located behind the address around 2:30 p.m. Hurley said White had lived at the Wildwood Road address for about a month, but said High Point narcotics agents knew of him when he lived at 1211 Carter St. in High Point. A search of court records showed he had numerous charges for felony possession of marijuana and maintaining a vehicle/dwelling place for a controlled substance. Hurley said deputies discovered an approximately 20-foot-in-circumference dog fighting ring made of 2-by-4 boards and plywood near a creek behind the house. The floor of the ring was carpeted. The carpet was soaked in blood. "Some of the dogs still alive were torn all to pieces," Hurley said. "This is the worst I've ever seen as far as cruelty to animals goes." After White was arrested, deputies searched the residence. "There was no furniture in the house," Hurley said. "There were two treadmills used to exercise dogs on and a 50-pound weight attached to a collar the dogs had to drag around to strengthen them up. We also found antibiotics and a staple gun used to patch dogs up and keep them healthy." According to Hurley, deputies also found a safe in the house in which illegal narcotics and money were discovered.

* Arrest warrants for Butler, Ogletree and Watkins have been issued and 23 counts of animal cruelty, a misdemeanor in Georgia have been filed. The 23 emaciated pit bulls were found living in their own waste and half-starved. The dogs were chained to posts without food or water in the back yard of a house at 307 Hill Top Circle. Most of the dogs showed signs of physical abuse and suffering from apparent dog-fighting wounds and easily treatable diseases such as heartworm. Cobb County Animal Control was familiar with the men after they were called to the home by neighbors at the beginning of December 1999. There was concern for the dogs then but there were a lot fewer dogs and none were apparently abused and the men promised to remove the dogs soon. On January 4th a surprise inspection of the home showed that things had grossly deteriorated since the original visit. The 23 pit bulls, several of them puppies, were sheltered only by 55 gallon plastic drums turned on there sides. Several other puppies were stuffed in cages and all the animals were living in their own feces. Three of the dogs were pregnant.

* Schenectady, NY resident Thomas Provencher, who pled guilty last month to running a pet store that served as a front for dog fighting, has been imprisoned for a term of from 2 1/3 to seven years.

A 28-year-old San Jose man is under arrest for alleged dog-fighting. Animal control officers have rescued seven pit bulls, some of them bruised and bitten, and investigators say the suspect had an elaborate set-up for vicious fights. Three pit bull puppies were lucky. They were rescued before they were old enough to go into the fighting ring. Four other adult pit bulls were found in a barn at the entrance to San Jose's Alum Rock Park. Police say the barn contained an arena with seating and lights for commercial dog fights. One of the female adults suffered bites that go into her bones. Yet, before she was sedated -- suffering from intense pain and unable even to walk-- she wagged her tail and greeted her rescuers with docile licks. Police arrested Craig Loren Cox on two felony charges of animal cruelty. Police say he is the caretaker of the barn where the fights were held, and was in charge of the dogs.

"Some of them were bolted down with tractor chain tires, heavy tow chains, to the floor of the stables," said animal services officer Steven Berard. One dog had bruises on its hindquarters. Police say it had been chained down so long it developed sores from being forced to sit. It's been several years since a dog-fighting ring was broken up in San Jose, but animal control officials say that does not mean the fights have not been going on. Animals are often found with injuries typical of commercial dog fights. This most recent bust was the result of a tip. Police say blood splattered on the wall showed that a fight had just occurred. Any spectators were gone by the time they arrived, but the dogs were still there, silent in their pain.

* Man charged with felonies related to dog-fighting
NORFOLK -- A city man was charged Wednesday with felony counts related to dog-fighting and cruelty to animals after a search of his home turned up dogs with severe facial wounds, according to a police spokesman and court documents. Tommie Lee Boose III, 27, of the 1200 block of Bunsen Court, was being held in the city jail. On Feb. 14, a city humane officer responded to an animal cruelty complaint at Boose's home in Norview. He noted four dogs in the back yard, two of which had severe wounds consistent with dog-fighting. The wounds were pus-filled and oozing, the officer reported in an affidavit for a search warrant. The dogs were secured with heavy chains in a yard full of excrement and had no water, the affidavit states.

Meyerpl, we all know that there's plenty of bad people running dogfighting rings but don't understand why you'll posting them here.

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:26 AM
Meyerpl, we all know that there's plenty of bad people running dogfighting rings but don't understand why you'll posting them here.Apparently, based on some of the comments and comparisons here (dog fighting is no different from hunting, no worse than the Humane Society euthenizing unwanted pets, no worse than pet ownership), there are a number of people who don't understand the cruel treatment dogs suffer in a fighting operation. These descriptions are very similar to what was found on Vick's property. And to respond to the notion that Vick was targeted, for whatever reason, and sentenced more harshly because of who he is. Other operations are busted and similar sentences are handed down.

Ryan
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:33 AM
Apparently, based on some of the comments and comparisons here (dog fighting is no different from hunting, no worse than the Humane Society euthenizing unwanted pets, no worse than pet ownership), there are a number of people who don't understand the cruel treatment dogs suffer in a fighting operation. These descriptions are very similar to what was found on Vick's property. And to respond to the notion that Vick was targeted, for whatever reason, and sentenced more harshly because of who he is. Other operations are busted and similar sentences are handed down.


Thank you. :worship:

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 05:13 AM
Apparently, based on some of the comments and comparisons here (dog fighting is no different from hunting, no worse than the Humane Society euthenizing unwanted pets, no worse than pet ownership), there are a number of people who don't understand the cruel treatment dogs suffer in a fighting operation. These descriptions are very similar to what was found on Vick's property. And to respond to the notion that Vick was targeted, for whatever reason, and sentenced more harshly because of who he is. Other operations are busted and similar sentences are handed down.
You and the people that you're arguing with have dug your heels in the sand and are not going to change each others minds. It appears as though you'll have to agree to disagree. The main point is whether Vick deserves to make a living in his profession. I for one think he should. You've worked in the system and know that the reason the prison retention rate is so high is because these guys don't get a second time by society while some people depending on their status in society can come out and make millions in books and tours. He's been hired by the Eagles and whether he makes it or not is left to be seen.

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 05:14 AM
Thank you. :worship:
:lol:

Bijoux0021
Aug 19th, 2009, 08:00 AM
You and the people that you're arguing with have dug your heels in the sand and are not going to change each others minds. It appears as though you'll have to agree to disagree. The main point is whether Vick deserves to make a living in his profession. I for one think he should. You've worked in the system and know that the reason the prison retention rate is so high is because these guys don't get a second time by society while some people depending on their status in society can come out and make millions in books and tours. He's been hired by the Eagles and whether he makes it or not is left to be seen.
Exactly! I don't understand why there is an argument whether Michael Vick should make a living or not. He has done his time in jail. He has paid his debt to society. His reputation will always be associated with this horrible crime for the rest of his life, as it should be.

And as Harloo pointed out, he has lost 142 million dollars in salary, endorsements, and estimated bonuses. What more do these people who are against him making a living want? If you want him end up on the streets, homeless and dead, just say so. You don't have to support the Eagles if you don't agree with them signing him. Just don't use this minuscule salary and other excuses to cover up your true feelings.

In The Zone
Aug 19th, 2009, 08:15 AM
Apparently, based on some of the comments and comparisons here (dog fighting is no different from hunting, no worse than the Humane Society euthenizing unwanted pets, no worse than pet ownership), there are a number of people who don't understand the cruel treatment dogs suffer in a fighting operation. These descriptions are very similar to what was found on Vick's property. And to respond to the notion that Vick was targeted, for whatever reason, and sentenced more harshly because of who he is. Other operations are busted and similar sentences are handed down.

Exactly! I don't understand why there is an argument whether Michael Vick should make a living or not. He has done his time in jail. He has paid his debt to society. His reputation will always be associated with this horrible crime for the rest of his life, as it should be.

And as Harloo pointed out, he has lost 142 million dollars in salary, endorsements, and estimated bonuses. What more do these people who are against him making a living want? If you want him end up on the streets, homeless and dead, just say so. You don't have to support the Eagles if you don't agree with them signing him. Just don't use this minuscule salary and other excuses to cover up your true feelings.

These two wonderful posts sum up this whole thread. I am glad not everyone has lost their damn mind. :)

GO BIG BLUE.

skanky~skanketta
Aug 19th, 2009, 09:55 AM
I like you a lot too, she with a quirky user name who frequently makes me laugh. And yes, I was being completely sarcastic! I find Mr. Vick's actions sickening beyond words. I think he's a bad guy.
I should have gone through the thread first! Sorry :kiss:

meyerpl
Aug 19th, 2009, 12:47 PM
I should have gone through the thread first! Sorry :kiss:Aw shucks, that's quite alright!:hearts:

2Black
Aug 19th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Apparently, based on some of the comments and comparisons here (dog fighting is no different from hunting, no worse than the Humane Society euthenizing unwanted pets, no worse than pet ownership), there are a number of people who don't understand the cruel treatment dogs suffer in a fighting operation. These descriptions are very similar to what was found on Vick's property. And to respond to the notion that Vick was targeted, for whatever reason, and sentenced more harshly because of who he is. Other operations are busted and similar sentences are handed down.

No, what we're saying is killing is killing. Whether you tortured someone to death or shot them point blank, you still KILLED them. You can't tell people to hate 1 person more because they tortured dogs versus someone who went out & purposely shot & killed a deer. Both persons are guilty of KILLING. How basic is that???

Yes, Vick was targeted to be made an example of ... Many attorneys have stated that the sentence he got was longer than the norm so he WAS sentenced more harshly. But he's being a stand-up man & doing whatever & all he can to get back into the good graces of society. I think it's overkill & hypocrisy.

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:01 PM
Meyerpl, we all know that there's plenty of bad people running dogfighting rings but don't understand why you'll posting them here.
What Meyerpl fails to appreciate is the fact that dogs belong to their owners, and not all owners think their dogs are equal to their mother, father, sister, brother, but they are in fact just mere dogs. If we were in China we wouldn't even be having this conversation:rolleyes:

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Mutual pleasure. They become members of the family and enjoy playing and being affectionate with people. Our dog gives and receives immeasurable pleasure to and from my family and friends. And it's good for a person's health to pet, play with and walk a dog or pet a cat. And it helps teach kids responsibility to help care for an animal.
So does good and proper parenting. I know plenty of responsible kids and adults who didn't have to learn responsibility through the enslavement of an animal.

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:06 PM
Dogs are carnivores, they need to eat meat and cereal to be healthy. People can function quite well on a vegitarian diet. I'm quite certain MBM and I don't see eye to eye about hunting, farming and diet, but MBM seems to be a thoughtful person who is wrestling with the conondrums the world poses for someone who has staked out a position firmly in opposition to killing in any form. MBM has written posts that earnestly state his/her viewpoint and read/responded to other posts respectfully and with an open mind. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated a propensity for derision and flippancy.
And I was just pointing out the HYPOCRICY of MBM being so staunchly anti-meat, and yet turning around and feeding his/her dogs meat out of a can.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:. How the hell do you think that meat got in that can to feed your enslaved dog?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: The Purina Dog Food Fairy?:lol::lol::lol:. Both of you all are just bad jokes.

Ryan
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:21 PM
:lol:




:spit: You're the queen of emoticons on this board, I think its the only thing you can contribute to a discussion.

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:28 PM
:spit: You're the queen of emoticons on this board, I think its the only thing you can contribute to a discussion.
Contribute like you did in the thread that got locked by Kart. Get over it, you were wrong.

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:33 PM
No, what we're saying is killing is killing. Whether you tortured someone to death or shot them point blank, you still KILLED them. You can't tell people to hate 1 person more because they tortured dogs versus someone who went out & purposely shot & killed a deer. Both persons are guilty of KILLING. How basic is that???

Yes, Vick was targeted to be made an example of ... Many attorneys have stated that the sentence he got was longer than the norm so he WAS sentenced more harshly. But he's being a stand-up man & doing whatever & all he can to get back into the good graces of society. I think it's overkill & hypocrisy.

excellent post!

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:34 PM
Exactly! I don't understand why there is an argument whether Michael Vick should make a living or not. He has done his time in jail. He has paid his debt to society. His reputation will always be associated with this horrible crime for the rest of his life, as it should be.

And as Harloo pointed out, he has lost 142 million dollars in salary, endorsements, and estimated bonuses. What more do these people who are against him making a living want? If you want him end up on the streets, homeless and dead, just say so. You don't have to support the Eagles if you don't agree with them signing him. Just don't use this minuscule salary and other excuses to cover up your true feelings.

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:

Randy H
Aug 19th, 2009, 03:55 PM
Child molesters have gotten less time than Vick, where is your outrage? And people kill all types of animals in this country for sport and its not a crime. Does Sarah Palin shoot Alaskan wolves from helicopters? Why isn't she in jail? This is just more hypocricy.

How do you know I don't have outrage for child molesters??? That comment made no sense at all...I am absolutely outraged by child molesters and the amount of times they face sentences not fitting of the crime, but that isn't what the topic of this thread is.

And again, Sarah Palin didn't break the law :rolleyes: This isn't hypocrisy, it's the fact of the matter...Michael Vick broke the law. If you have an issue with whether Sarah Palin shooting a wolf should be against the law, that's a whole different topic of concern.

Ryan
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:18 PM
Contribute like you did in the thread that got locked by Kart. Get over it, you were wrong.




Wrong about what? :shrug: That thread got locked because people couldn't discuss that subject like adults, not because the question didn't have merit.

kris719
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Both of you all are just bad jokes.

spartanfan meet mirror.

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:36 PM
Wrong about what? :shrug: That thread got locked because people couldn't discuss that subject like adults, not because the question didn't have merit.
Who said it didn't?

darrinbaker00
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:37 PM
:spit: You're the queen of emoticons on this board, I think its the only thing you can contribute to a discussion.
These aren't real discussions, you know.

mykarma
Aug 19th, 2009, 04:58 PM
These aren't real discussions, you know.
You must spread reps around before ...

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 06:51 PM
Wow! Talk about being weird, what is the importance of the poster's race in discussions? Should the opinion be less valid depending on one's race?:confused:
Haters are just doing their jobs.:lol:

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 06:55 PM
How do you know I don't have outrage for child molesters??? That comment made no sense at all...I am absolutely outraged by child molesters and the amount of times they face sentences not fitting of the crime, but that isn't what the topic of this thread is.

And again, Sarah Palin didn't break the law :rolleyes: This isn't hypocrisy, it's the fact of the matter...Michael Vick broke the law. If you have an issue with whether Sarah Palin shooting a wolf should be against the law, that's a whole different topic of concern.
Just because something is "legal" doesn't make it morally right. For a long period of time slavery was legal, and it was illegal for slaves to know how to read or write. Would legalizing dog fighting turn many peoples opinion about the cruelty of the sport? Highly doubtful. Yet shooting artic wolves from a helicopter for sport doesn't raise too man eyebrows on this board, regardless of its cruetly or legality. Again I turn to the word to most accurately fit this situation: HYPOCRICY.

spartanfan
Aug 19th, 2009, 06:56 PM
spartanfan meet mirror.
How about your lips meet the pucker of my ASS.:lol:

meyerpl
Aug 20th, 2009, 12:36 AM
excellent post!Oh yeah, it's excellent. Stupid, but excellent.

HRHoliviasmith
Aug 20th, 2009, 12:57 AM
Oh yeah, it's excellent. Stupid, but excellent.

suuuure...whatever.

doni1212
Aug 20th, 2009, 03:36 AM
oh god, not you too :rolleyes:

I don't seem to hear you guys whining about Donte Stallworth's light sentence for killing a man while drunk driving. Do I?

What are you talking about? It's the truth. In most cases, black people get harsher sentences than white people.

Stallworth is an exception to the rule.

Its so sad that you walk around with such a big chip on your shoulder every day.

I honestly don't. I just hate to see people treated unfairly because of the color of their skin, :shrug:

meyerpl
Aug 20th, 2009, 01:14 PM
What are you talking about? It's the truth. In most cases, black people get harsher sentences than white people.

Stallworth is an exception to the rule.
You are correct. The unequal treatment of minorities in our criminal justice system is a fact and a wrong we must work to right. Also, minorities in America have all too few, albeit a growing number, of heros and role models in the public eye. These facters may, in part, account for a tendency among some minorities to justify, minimize or deny guilt whenever one of those public figures discraces himself by committing a horrible crime. The unequal treatment of minorities in America does nothing to mitigate Michael Vick's crimes.

mykarma
Aug 20th, 2009, 01:32 PM
You are correct. The unequal treatment of minorities in our criminal justice system is a fact and a wrong we must work to right. Also, minorities in America have all too few, albeit a growing number, of heros and role models in the public eye. These facters may, in part, account for a tendency among some minorities to justify, minimize or deny guilt whenever one of those public figures discraces himself by committing a horrible crime. The unequal treatment of minorities in America does nothing to mitigate Michael Vick's crimes.
Do you mean like the excuses the majority makes when unequal treatment is made against minorities? The excuses that are made when cops setup, beat, torture, murder minorities. Are those the types of justifications and denial you're referring to? If you're using that statement as to the reason most minorities make for allowing a man whose paid his dues according to the law to earn a living then perhaps you're right.

Randy H
Aug 20th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Just because something is "legal" doesn't make it morally right. For a long period of time slavery was legal, and it was illegal for slaves to know how to read or write. Would legalizing dog fighting turn many peoples opinion about the cruelty of the sport? Highly doubtful. Yet shooting artic wolves from a helicopter for sport doesn't raise too man eyebrows on this board, regardless of its cruetly or legality. Again I turn to the word to most accurately fit this situation: HYPOCRICY.

Whether it's morally right or not, isn't really the point here. If you wanted my personal opinion, I don't particularly think that game hunting is morally right either, I would never do it myself...I understand doing it for the purpose of food, and I understand it to a degree for the purpose of maintaining a reasonable control of population...I don't understand why you would want to kill an animal for no other reason than to make it a trophy piece, or for you to get amusement out of watching them die.

Nevertheless, the law is what it is, and if I don't like it then I need to either try and do something about it, or accept it for what it is and make people accountable for when they break the law. When you break the law, you are supposed to face reasonable consequences...In my opinion, Michael Vick did not.

If Sarah Palin shooting a wolf was an illegal crime, I would expect her to also face reasonable consequences for her actions too. That doesn't mean that I agree that her shooting a wolf is right, but until a law changes stating that it is illegal, it is what it is. That's not hypocrisy.

mykarma
Aug 20th, 2009, 01:55 PM
Whether it's morally right or not, isn't really the point here. If you wanted my personal opinion, I don't particularly think that game hunting is morally right either, I would never do it myself...I understand doing it for the purpose of food, and I understand it to a degree for the purpose of maintaining a reasonable control of population...I don't understand why you would want to kill an animal for no other reason than to make it a trophy piece, or for you to get amusement out of watching them die.

Nevertheless, the law is what it is, and if I don't like it then I need to either try and do something about it, or accept it for what it is and make people accountable for when they break the law. When you break the law, you are supposed to face reasonable consequences...In my opinion, Michael Vick did not.

If Sarah Palin shooting a wolf was an illegal crime, I would expect her to also face reasonable consequences for her actions too. That doesn't mean that I agree that her shooting a wolf is right, but until a law changes stating that it is illegal, it is what it is. That's not hypocrisy.
Since this is a country of laws, what would have been your reasonable punishment [B]under that law[/B.

Randy H
Aug 20th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Since this is a country of laws, what would have been your reasonable punishment [B]under that law[/B.

The only thing that I was strongly against, was serving any of his original sentence in home confinement...Should have been in prison for the entire time. Beyond that, while I think that the law should be harsher for that kind of animal cruelty, it isn't, so that part is an issue with the law more than it is with Michael Vick.

mykarma
Aug 20th, 2009, 02:44 PM
The only thing that I was strongly against, was serving any of his original sentence in home confinement...Should have been in prison for the entire time. Beyond that, while I think that the law should be harsher for that kind of animal cruelty, it isn't, so that part is an issue with the law more than it is with Michael Vick.
Thanks for the clarification. That's not what I got from your previous post.

Randy H
Aug 20th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the clarification. That's not what I got from your previous post.

Like I said, I think there ought to be harsher laws against that sort of crime, but that isn't the case, so that's something to take up with the system, not with Michael Vick himself...Based on what the law is, I felt he should have spent the entire sentence in jail rather than receiving any time through home confinement, but that's as far as that goes. If the laws were stricter on the issue, then I would expect him to face stricter punishment...Unfortunately that isn't the case in most places though

mykarma
Aug 20th, 2009, 03:11 PM
Like I said, I think there ought to be harsher laws against that sort of crime, but that isn't the case, so that's something to take up with the system, not with Michael Vick himself...Based on what the law is, I felt he should have spent the entire sentence in jail rather than receiving any time through home confinement, but that's as far as that goes. If the laws were stricter on the issue, then I would expect him to face stricter punishment...Unfortunately that isn't the case in most places though
got it

Vlover
Aug 20th, 2009, 05:44 PM
You are correct. The unequal treatment of minorities in our criminal justice system is a fact and a wrong we must work to right. Also, minorities in America have all too few, albeit a growing number, of heros and role models in the public eye. These facters may, in part, account for a tendency among some minorities to justify, minimize or deny guilt whenever one of those public figures discraces himself by committing a horrible crime. The unequal treatment of minorities in America does nothing to mitigate Michael Vick's crimes.
Meyerpl, great that you are one of the very few here to admit the inequities in the justice system based on race but that is not the issue in this case. Vick went through the justice system and complied fully with what the law dictates his punishment should be. No one here or Vick administered these penalties therefore I don't understand why some are so upset that he wants to move on with his life for better or worse.:confused:

There is no law that state he can't play football ever again which is what some people seem to want. I don't think any of us have the moral high ground here to determine what should happen for the rest of his life. People just need to let this go because Vick playing or not playing football will have no impact on the animal abuse that still goes on as we speak.

meyerpl
Aug 20th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Do you mean like the excuses the majority makes when unequal treatment is made against minorities? The excuses that are made when cops setup, beat, torture, murder minorities. Are those the types of justifications and denial you're referring to? If you're using that statement as to the reason most minorities make for allowing a man whose paid his dues according to the law to earn a living then perhaps you're right.There is plenty of minimizing, justifying and denial both ways. One does not justify the other.

meyerpl
Aug 20th, 2009, 06:20 PM
Meyerpl, great that you are one of the very few here to admit the inequities in the justice system based on race but that is not the issue in this case. Vick went through the justice system and complied fully with what the law dictates his punishment should be. No one here or Vick administered these penalties therefore I don't understand why some are so upset that he wants to move on with his life for better or worse.:confused:

There is no law that state he can't play football ever again which is what some people seem to want. I don't think any of us have the moral high ground here to determine what should happen for the rest of his life. People just need to let this go because Vick playing or not playing football will have no impact on the animal abuse that still goes on as we speak.I don't disagree. But that doesn't seem to go far enough for some people, there are those who minimize Vick's crimes and going down that road could have an impact on the the animal abuse that still goes on. There's one whistlebritches in this thread who said that Vick's crimes are no worse than owning (enslaving) a pet. You just can't make shit like that up.:lol:

In The Zone
Aug 20th, 2009, 09:07 PM
Dick’s Sporting Goods to Withhold Vick Jersey Sales
By Greg Bensinger

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Michael Vick’s No. 7 Philadelphia Eagles jersey won’t be sold by Dick’s Sporting Goods Inc. as the largest publicly traded U.S. athletic store weighs public reaction to his return from a dogfighting prison term.

“We have not seen enough demand from Eagles fans to stock the jersey,” Jeff Hennion, chief marketing officer of the Pittsburgh-based retailer, said in an interview. “We have no problem stocking the jersey if the demand is there.”

Vick, 29, signed a two-year contract with the National Football League team last week following his May release after serving 18 months in prison for conspiring to run a ring that bought, trained and fought dogs in Virginia and other states. The NFL reinstated the quarterback in July.

Dick’s is tallying customer service calls, search queries on its Web site and inquiries at Philadelphia-area stores to gauge consumer interest in Vick’s jersey, said Hennion. The retailer has about 400 stores in 40 states.

Brian McCarthy, an NFL spokesman, declined in an e-mail to comment. The league is selling Vick jerseys through its nflshop.com online store, he said.

Adidas AG’s Reebok holds an exclusive agreement with the NFL to sell officially licensed apparel. A Reebok spokeswoman, Jenny Shanley, didn’t immediately return a voice-mail message seeking comment.

Hennion said Dick’s may decide later to begin stocking the Vick jersey.

CNBC reported the news earlier.

Dick’s added 79 cents, or 4.1 percent, to $20.27 at 4:01 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares rose 44 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Greg Bensinger in New York at gbensinger1@bloomberg.net

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aVlFyTLXAO7s

mykarma
Aug 21st, 2009, 02:27 AM
There is plenty of minimizing, justifying and denial both ways. One does not justify the other.
Thank you