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T-rex
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:20 AM
This is from ESPN news...


Three times in Serena Williams career, she has fought back from match point down in a Grand Slam event, to win the Major tournament outright.

This is the most telling statistic as to why she is the best player in the world.


People talk about her speed, power and physical attributes. But she wins because she is mentally tough. And she doesn't melt in critical moments.


What other player currently on tour will ever have a statistic like that at any point in her career?


The answer is none of them. Almost all of the current crop of WTA players are mentally small, emotional, indecisive, cry-babies. They are beautiful, rich, sassy, head-cases.


They don't have the focus to match Serena Williams. That's why Serena is the best in the world and the most dominate player of her era.:worship::worship::worship:

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:22 AM
I think the most telling stat of Serena's career is her winning and even H2H with the current Top 30.

It ends at 0-1 Chakvetadze.

After that it goes actually all the way through the current Top 100.

She has a winning or even H2H with 99/100 players.

T-rex
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:23 AM
That's another great stat, which further proves the point. She rises to the occasion!

Cakeisgood
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:25 AM
First of all, I'm not criticizing Serena's fight, let's get that straight.

But I don't get how that is an amazingly "telling" stat. If a player is playing well, there should be no MP against them. The stat is only indicative of a player's ability to dig out of poor play.

Especially in Serena's case, where her A game rarely loses more than six games TOTAL.

And wow, there's a lot of newbies lately.

T-rex
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:29 AM
First of all, I'm not criticizing Serena's fight, let's get that straight.

But I don't get how that is an amazingly "telling" stat. If a player is playing well, there should be no MP against them. The stat is only indicative of a player's ability to dig out of poor play.

Especially in Serena's case, where her A game rarely loses more than six games TOTAL.

And wow, there's a lot of newbies lately.



I think that stat is amazing. It shows how clutch she really is. I contend that Serena wins tournaments mentally as much as she does physically. The Wimbledon semifinal is a perfect example. Elena was the better physical tennis player. Serena was the smarter and mentally stronger tennis player. That's why she won.

RenaSlam.
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:49 AM
It's incredible. So clutch.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:58 AM
First of all, I'm not criticizing Serena's fight, let's get that straight.

But I don't get how that is an amazingly "telling" stat. If a player is playing well, there should be no MP against them. The stat is only indicative of a player's ability to dig out of poor play.

Especially in Serena's case, where her A game rarely loses more than six games TOTAL.

And wow, there's a lot of newbies lately.

a champion is not only known by how high their highs are, but if they can win while at their lowest...look through tennis history post challenge round and tell me if all the greats never had to save mp in at least 1 match...

and believe me, there are a lot of people on tour who had immense talent and could only win once they were playing well...and if they played a piss poor match by their standards they were guaranteed to lose...so it IS telling stat that serena has been able to save MP

Horizon
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:02 AM
I think the most telling stat of Serena's career is her winning and even H2H with the current Top 30.

It ends at 0-1 Chakvetadze.

After that it goes actually all the way through the current Top 100.

She has a winning or even H2H with 99/100 players.
*CHAKVEGOAT :worship:

T-rex
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:04 AM
In 3 of her 11 Major Championships, Serena faced a match point at some point in the tournament and overcame it to win the entire event. I think that says it all.

RenaSlam.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:14 AM
In 3 of her 11 Major Championships, Serena faced a match point at some point in the tournament and overcame it to win the entire event. I think that says it all.

No, it doesn't. But it does show that she's not afraid to fight out of a hole even when match point down...and she's the best at it (all-time).

Cakeisgood
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:17 AM
In 3 of her 11 Major Championships, Serena faced a match point at some point in the tournament and overcame it to win the entire event. I think that says it all.

The most telling stat of Serena's IMHO is actually that she has never lost in the first round of a slam. Furthermore, she has only lost in the 2nd ONCE.

The Daviator
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:24 AM
Has anyone ever won a Slam from being down mp 3 times?

brickhousesupporter
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:00 AM
The most telling stat of Serena's IMHO is actually that she has never lost in the first round of a slam. Furthermore, she has only lost in the 2nd ONCE.
That second round loss was at the Aus Open her first grandslam and and she lost against her sister. That was the first time I saw Serena and was instantly a fan after that.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:22 AM
No more than a -1 H2H with ANY player Active or Retired.

-1: Sun, Sanchez-Vicario, and Chakvetadze (I think those are the only ones)
=: Graf (I'm sure there are more)
+: EVERYONE else

:eek:

Orbis
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:25 AM
*CHAKVEGOAT :worship:

GOATVETADZE :worship:

And those are all impressive stats, I didn't expect any less from Serena, really.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:25 AM
Bammer still I think too.

But to have a winning or even H2H with every former #1 but 1 is amazing.

It's much better than the MP things, though that is impressive.

It really shows no one can really master her consistently or at all.

VS Fan
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:09 AM
Has anyone ever won a Slam from being down mp 3 times?
Uh.... Yeah.... Serena Williams vs Kim Clijsters, Semi-final round in the AO 2005. She had been down 1-5 in the final third set. She won that set 7-5.:bounce:

VS Fan
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:14 AM
Oh I just thought of another, Venus saved EIGHT match points vs Jennifer Capriati in Miami in 2001.... not a "Slam" but still impressive.

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:23 AM
Ok, so in Serena's 11 major titles, these are the matches (that I remember) where she came back from BIG deficits to win the title:

1999 US Open - Down against Clijsters and Davenport
2002 French Open - Down against Capriati
2003 Australian Open - Down against Loit and Clijsters
2005 Australian Open - Down against Sharapova and Davenport
2007 Australian Open - Down against Peer and Petrova
2009 Australian Open - Down against Kuznetsova (she was down against Azarenka too, but they didn't finish the match)
2009 Wimbledon - Down against Dementieva.

Was she down MP against Davenport @ the US Open, or was it just 5-1/2? I think Capriati served for the match @ the FO, but I'm not sure if it got any closer than that.

janksta
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:24 AM
In 3 of her 11 Major Championships, Serena faced a match point at some point in the tournament and overcame it to win the entire event. I think that says it all.

isn't it 4 out of 11?

FO 2002
AO 2003 and AO 2005
WIM 2009

And then the other slams that she won where she came from behind (barely scraping off a win)

1999 USO (vs. Clijsters, I believe she was down a break on that 3rd set)
2007 OZ (2 points away from defeat vs. Petrova and vs. Peer)
2008 USO (won the tournament without dropping a set...but could've easily been taken out by Venus in the QF saving set points in both sets)
2009 OZ (Kuznetsova served for the match)

So collectively, that's seven slams that could easily NOT been hers.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:26 AM
Ok, so in Serena's 11 major titles, these are the matches (that I remember) where she came back from BIG deficits to win the title:

1999 US Open - Down against Clijsters and Davenport
2002 French Open - Down against Capriati
2003 Australian Open - Down against Loit and Clijsters
2005 Australian Open - Down against Sharapova and Davenport
2007 Australian Open - Down against Peer and Petrova
2009 Australian Open - Down against Kuznetsova (she was down against Azarenka too, but they didn't finish the match)
2009 Wimbledon - Down against Dementieva.

Was she down MP against Davenport @ the US Open, or was it just 5-1/2? I think Capriati served for the match @ the FO, but I'm not sure if it got any closer than that.

2 points away from losing from Peer.

Davenport held no MPs neither did Capriati.

2005 Davenport doesn't really count as down to me. Serena lost the first set, but Davenport was never up a break in the second. So basically Serena never lost serve after the first set.

Obviously 2 MP @ Clijsters, 3 @ Maria, 1 @ Dementieva.

Kuznetsova, Capriati, Petrova served for the match.

Horizon
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:53 AM
No more than a -1 H2H with ANY player Active or Retired.

-1: Sun, Sanchez-Vicario, and Chakvetadze (I think those are the only ones)
=: Graf (I'm sure there are more)
+: EVERYONE else

:eek:
Sybille Bammer, Paola Suarez and Mary Joe Fernandez are three more, just for the sake of it :p

T-rex
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:59 AM
isn't it 4 out of 11?

FO 2002
AO 2003 and AO 2005
WIM 2009

And then the other slams that she won where she came from behind (barely scraping off a win)

1999 USO (vs. Clijsters, I believe she was down a break on that 3rd set)
2007 OZ (2 points away from defeat vs. Petrova and vs. Peer)
2008 USO (won the tournament without dropping a set...but could've easily been taken out by Venus in the QF saving set points in both sets)
2009 OZ (Kuznetsova served for the match)

So collectively, that's seven slams that could easily NOT been hers.



Good info and research. I think you might be right. The 3 out of 11 number came from ESPN. I suppose they could be wrong.:shrug:



I should also point out that the 3 out of 11 number is the number of Major tournaments where she came back from MP down. It does not address the number of times within a particular tournament she may have come back from MP down. Therefore the total could actually be higher. As other posters have pointed out.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:10 AM
Has anyone ever won a Slam from being down mp 3 times?

Davi, you stole my avi. ;)

Havok
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:44 AM
Everyone knows Serena is an amazing fighter though. Really not a surprising stat from Serenal one of the very few women on tour who never gives up. Too many of them simply cave if things aren't going well which is why this crop of tennis players blow in comparison to what we were used to in the 90's early 00's.

Morrissey
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:45 AM
Venus won Wimbledon 2005 fighting off a match point against Davenport so Serena isn't the only one to achieve this.

bandabou
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:46 AM
Wow! Amazing..when the going gets tough, this sister gets going!

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:02 AM
Venus won Wimbledon 2005 fighting off a match point against Davenport so Serena isn't the only one to achieve this.

you missed the point as always :rolleyes:

The Daviator
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:04 PM
2 points away from losing from Peer.

Davenport held no MPs neither did Capriati.

2005 Davenport doesn't really count as down to me. Serena lost the first set, but Davenport was never up a break in the second. So basically Serena never lost serve after the first set.

Obviously 2 MP @ Clijsters, 3 @ Maria, 1 @ Dementieva.

Kuznetsova, Capriati, Petrova served for the match.

Lindsay was up 6-2 2-2 and had 6 BPs to break Rena, so I would say she was down in that match.

Davi, you stole my avi. ;)

I think I had it first De ;)

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:07 PM
I know how it went. I've seen it numerous times. But the facts are what they are.

Serena never lost her serve after losing the first set? That's a correct fact. That really to me doesn't count as a dire dire comeback.

If you tell someone they are going to lose a first set, but won't lose their serve ever again during the rest of the match. They'll feel pretty confident as they only way they can lose is in a TB.

Almost doesn't count. Ironically, the story of Davenport's post AO 2000 career.

Veesus
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:22 PM
Get it, girl! :woohoo:

Golovinjured.
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:55 PM
No more than a -1 H2H with ANY player Active or Retired.

-1: Sun, Sanchez-Vicario, and Chakvetadze (I think those are the only ones)
=: Graf (I'm sure there are more)
+: EVERYONE else

:eek:

She's 0-1 with Annie Miller, Alexia Dechaume-Balleret, Dominique Monami, Paolo Suarez, Mary Joe Fernandez and Sybille Bammer.

:wavey::wavey::wavey:

DefyingGravity
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:01 PM
I think that's a good stat, and a lot of women have had to scape through rounds playing their worst to win a Slam:

2004 Sharapova, Myskina
2005 Justine
2006 Mauresmo (that Sun match)
2007 Serena, Venus
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Serena

Maybe they all haven't saved match point, but it's still a remarkable stat that all of these women are down, and are major champions and have been top players.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:46 PM
Lindsay was up 6-2 2-2 and had 6 BPs to break Rena, so I would say she was down in that match.



I think I had it first De ;)

:boxing: When did you get yours? :lol:

That's okay. You keep it. I'll change mine. :hug:

Dave.
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:52 PM
I know how it went. I've seen it numerous times. But the facts are what they are.

Serena never lost her serve after losing the first set? That's a correct fact. That really to me doesn't count as a dire dire comeback.

If you tell someone they are going to lose a first set, but won't lose their serve ever again during the rest of the match. They'll feel pretty confident as they only way they can lose is in a TB.

Almost doesn't count. Ironically, the story of Davenport's post AO 2000 career.

:lol:

This is that same poster who was banned but keeps signing up again, I forgot the name.

hingis-seles
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:57 PM
Having not read any of the posts in this thread besides the opening one, I apologise if this has already been mentioned.

It's a fantastic statistic and highlights Serena's mental toughness. She epitmoizes the saying that champions find a way to win even when not playing their best. By far, the mentally strongest player since Monica Seles.

friendsita
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:11 AM
I hate Serena for winning Wimby.

Horizon
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:54 AM
I think that's a good stat, and a lot of women have had to scape through rounds playing their worst to win a Slam:

2004 Sharapova, Myskina
2005 Justine
2006 Mauresmo (that Sun match)
2007 Serena, Venus
2008 Ivanovic
2009 Serena

Maybe they all haven't saved match point, but it's still a remarkable stat that all of these women are down, and are major champions and have been top players.
Which round did Ana play badly in? :confused: :scratch:

Craig.
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:55 AM
Which round did Ana play badly in? :confused: :scratch:

Against Jankovic apparently :rolls:

Ellen Dawson
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:57 AM
For me the telling stat is 11 Grand Slam singles titles. :worship:

friendsita
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:52 AM
ok, ok, Serena is great.

danieln1
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:12 AM
CHAKVEGOAT! :worship:

GOATVETADZE! :worship:

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2009, 06:56 AM
Just finds a way of winning..that can't be tought.

InsideOut.
Jul 6th, 2009, 06:59 AM
Against Jankovic apparently :rolls:

:lol::tape:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jul 6th, 2009, 07:16 AM
No more than a -1 H2H with ANY player Active or Retired.

-1: Sun, Sanchez-Vicario, and Chakvetadze (I think those are the only ones)
=: Graf (I'm sure there are more)
+: EVERYONE else

:eek:

Unlike the supposed GOAT Federer who is dominated by Murray and Nadal :D

Amazing Serena :worship: