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ikarinokami
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:12 PM
When venus first beat her sister in a slam, she felt more pain for her sister than joy in the win, then preceeded to lose a "serena" slam worth of grand slam finals to her sister. She finally break through and beats her at last years wimby, serena gets upset, then in the following U.S open, Venus loses a SF she has absolutely no bussiness losing. she comes into the wimby final, playing what many like wade, considered the greatest grass court play they had ever seen, tennis so good as to be sublime, and comes the finals against her sister, that player just disapears and she becomes ordinary. She is 29, she has maybe 3 good years left, at some point she is going to have to stop being a good big sister and start thinking about her legacy. Serena saying she is a legend should not be good enough for her as a professional tennis player.

volta
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:14 PM
I am pretty sure that she Plays to win everytime she gets on court...

Thanx4nothin
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:15 PM
God go away. Nonsense.

Becool
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:28 PM
OMG.. More bullshit

jefrilibra
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:31 PM
http://i40.tinypic.com/8z45s1.gif

ikarinokami
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:33 PM
I am pretty sure that she Plays to win everytime she gets on court...

I;m not saying she went out there to lose, but she did not go all out, anyone who has seen her play this tournment can tell you that, she did not move at all, unlike her sister, she has always held back, and im not the first person who has said it. it said when she lost the 4 stright grand slams. But today it was particularily obvious. her body langage was terrible, if there was a word for her today, it was listless. She may make errors, and have mental lapses, but i have rarely seen her listless, and she was listless today, and i cant imagine her being listless against anyone else. Even in the final she lost against hingis she had fire, she had zero fire today.

Marty-Dom
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:42 PM
I;m not saying she went out there to lose, but she did not go all out, anyone who has seen her play this tournment can tell you that, she did not move at all, unlike her sister, she has always held back, and im not the first person who has said it. it said when she lost the 4 stright grand slams. But today it was particularily obvious. her body langage was terrible, if there was a word for her today, it was listless. She may make errors, and have mental lapses, but i have rarely seen her listless, and she was listless today, and i cant imagine her being listless against anyone else. Even in the final she lost against hingis she had fire, she had zero fire today.

Matchups matter. Watch Roddick tomorrow. He will look nothing like he did in his last couple of matches.
Venus takes every chance she gets against Serena. She beat her 10 out of last 21 times and even served up a bagel on her last year.
Serena happens to be a bad matchup for Venus when she is playing well.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:36 PM
:rolls:

jubliant11
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:39 PM
She went all out last year but she chose to lose this year? As disappointed as she looked and as well as Serena played and actually HELD the level, she was always going to lose this match.

She got too tentative late in the 1st. Watch the match or highlights. Late in that first set her length and pace dropped. Shots were barely clearing the net/service line.

volta
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:45 PM
I;m not saying she went out there to lose, but she did not go all out, anyone who has seen her play this tournment can tell you that, she did not move at all, unlike her sister, she has always held back, and im not the first person who has said it. it said when she lost the 4 stright grand slams. But today it was particularily obvious. her body langage was terrible, if there was a word for her today, it was listless. She may make errors, and have mental lapses, but i have rarely seen her listless, and she was listless today, and i cant imagine her being listless against anyone else. Even in the final she lost against hingis she had fire, she had zero fire today.

And? Sometimes Ur on sometimes your off :shrug: she faced someone that was playing awesome and lost just like Serena faced someone who was playing great in Dubai and lost , just like Vee faced a better player in the Usopen etc. Lets just move on because its as hard for Vee to play Rena as it is for Serena to play Venus

darrinbaker00
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:48 PM
I;m not saying she went out there to lose, but she did not go all out, anyone who has seen her play this tournment can tell you that, she did not move at all, unlike her sister, she has always held back, and im not the first person who has said it. it said when she lost the 4 stright grand slams. But today it was particularily obvious. her body langage was terrible, if there was a word for her today, it was listless. She may make errors, and have mental lapses, but i have rarely seen her listless, and she was listless today, and i cant imagine her being listless against anyone else. Even in the final she lost against hingis she had fire, she had zero fire today.
You don't play tennis, do you?

Bounty Hunter
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:48 PM
http://i40.tinypic.com/8z45s1.gif


:lol::lol:

Tennisstar86
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:21 AM
She went all out last year but she chose to lose this year? As disappointed as she looked and as well as Serena played and actually HELD the level, she was always going to lose this match.

She got too tentative late in the 1st. Watch the match or highlights. Late in that first set her length and pace dropped. Shots were barely clearing the net/service line.

Disagree with that. if the shot she hit on break point that barely missed had gone in, The match would have been totally different. Serena would have been the one to panick prolly as Venus would have served out the set more than likely.....

The match was a match of serving...and Serena's serve held up till the end....I was impressed with both of their serving first set.... Anyone who says Venus has no second serve.... look at some of those kick serves that were waaaaay over Serena's head in the first...

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Last year Venus made it a track meet, and she won.

This year Serena made it a serving contest, and she won. Serena's servign was just out of this world.

Lulu.
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:31 AM
I am pretty sure that she Plays to win everytime she gets on court...

Exactly. Anyone who thinks differently is crazy.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:34 AM
Except in Tier III and lowers.

sky20748
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:40 AM
For one thing, Venus needs to get another coach because being coached by the same coaches is not good. They each knows each others games so a new voice can help her bring something new to the table. Yes Serena is a hell of a player and I just wonder in the scheme of things how did things click more for Serena when she was being trained than Venus.Yes Serena no one wishes to play. But people this is Wimbledon a place where Venus has always shined so it just seemed odd to see her almost bland out there today. I wish the Venus that had that hunger the past 2 weeks showed up. I know that some will say that oh I am crazy and don't know what I am talking about but the Venus that had that fight up until today was just not there and her face showed it as well. She knows she let slip a golden opportunity. And this will sting for a while to come. But nonetheless Congrats Serena. I just wish your sister can accomplish what you have as well. Now one slam left that's up for grabs and now let the fighting begin.

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:59 AM
1/Choking at Wimbledon today : no way
2/still going back to last year's US Open and squandering 10 set points
3/Best grass-court player of her generation, inflicting a memorable defeat against Safina (ONE UE). Which would be a waste.

My conclusion is that Venus should have won handily today but is kind of a lunatic (WHICH SERENA IS NOT). She doens't really care about history when Serena is on the other other side of the net (what a mistake...), is happy to make her sister happy (which is fine). Venus is a Gemini btw. Nothing wrong. This is her karma.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:02 AM
She cared last year when she fought back from being down a break in both sets? If she really didn't care she would have given up in '08 when Serena came out in fire. She cared enough to dig in then.

Sigh. This is the main reason -I- don't like Serena/Venus finals because the credit is never 100%.

RenaSlam.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:05 AM
You fail. AGAIN.

volta
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:05 AM
She was beaten by a player playing better tennis. MOVE ON

Horizon
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:06 AM
STOP MAKING THREADS.

please :o

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:09 AM
STOP MAKING THREADS.

please :o

As long as you're answering them. You all keep doing that anyway...

VS Fan
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:11 AM
Serena was "in the zone" today and when this happens, no one can beat her... Venus did better than any other opponent would have.

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:12 AM
She was beaten by a player playing better tennis. MOVE ON

Why are you even part of this forum anyway if you won't even discuss the Wimbledon final ?

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:15 AM
Serena was "in the zone" today and when this happens, no one can beat her... Venus did better than any other opponent would have.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we live in a politically-correct world, everybody has to agree on everything, and Michael Jackson was a saint...

Craig.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:16 AM
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we live in a politically-correct world, everybody has to agree on everything, and Michael Jackson was a saint...

1. We don't.
2. We don't.
3. He wasn't.
4. STFU.

The Daviator
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:19 AM
They were evenly matched all first set, then Serena upped her play in the tie-break and sustained it and Venus couldn't handle it and waned, that's it :shrug:

It's not like Serena hasn't beaten Venus in a W final before, she's done it twice in fact.

volta
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:22 AM
Why are you even part of this forum anyway if you won't even discuss the Wimbledon final ?

Oh sorry, i didnt know that that was all we could talk about here, my bad :sad:

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:23 AM
They were evenly matched all first set, then Serena upped her play in the tie-break and sustained it and Venus couldn't handle it and waned, that's it :shrug:

It's not like Serena hasn't beaten Venus in a W final before, she's done it twice in fact.

Well I know how the match went on (thank you), I watched it...

brickhousesupporter
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:27 AM
If Venus really thinks like that then Venus is an ass. If Venus can't motivate herself to play a grandslam final then she is not a real champion and her fans should know that they are supporting a loser. Serena is a grown ass woman almost 30 years old, she does not require Venus to protect her feelings.

The Daviator
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Well I know how the match went on (thank you), I watched it...

You're asking whether she choked or gave it away, she didn't, Serena raised her game at the crucial moments like a champ and the rest is history.

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:28 AM
Oh sorry, i didnt know that that was all we could talk about here, my bad :sad:

You probably hit the wrong thread by mistake. All forgiven.

RenaSlam.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:31 AM
You probably hit the wrong thread by mistake. All forgiven.

Just shut up. You'll be banned soon enough, so enjoy your free life on this board while you have it.

Dave.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:32 AM
IMO It was just like the 2004 final, player going for 3 in a row not quite at their best beaten by a better player who raised their game in the crucial moments. :shrug:

Actually thinking about it, the last one to do 3 in a row arguably should have lost in the 3rd final to the better player on that day, just Novotna could not quite close it out.

hdfb
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:32 AM
I don't know what brought that second set on. Venus just switched off. I also think the first set should have been Venus'. No BPs faced but she had 2 in succession of her own!

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:35 AM
Just shut up. You'll be banned soon enough, so enjoy your free life on this board while you have it.

I'll never be banned because I always post relevant threads and never insult posters the way you do. You're just full of hate.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:39 AM
None of the above. Serena was just the better player today. Sorry, no excuses. Please don't try to diminish Serena's win. Serena kept Vee pinned back on the baseline with her serves and returned great in the second. Serena was the only quality grass court player Venus came up against in this tournament and Serena just came off a tough win against another top 10 tough grass court player. She did not allow Vee to play her game. Period. End of story.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:40 AM
She cared last year when she fought back from being down a break in both sets? If she really didn't care she would have given up in '08 when Serena came out in fire. She cared enough to dig in then.

Sigh. This is the main reason -I- don't like Serena/Venus finals because the credit is never 100%.

I have to agree with you there.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:42 AM
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we live in a politically-correct world, everybody has to agree on everything, and Michael Jackson was a saint...

No, it's all about respect, respect, respect.

volta
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:42 AM
You probably hit the wrong thread by mistake. All forgiven.

You can only wish ...
there are multiple threads about this so this is just unecessary and its just sad that you as a supposed Williams fan cant even see how insultin to Venus and Serena this "choked or hand it to her" allegations are. The fact that im not the only Williams fan calling you out speaks VOLUMES

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:43 AM
Well I know how the match went on (thank you), I watched it...

Then why are you asking asinine questions? :confused:

FoxyliciousKhat
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:47 AM
They were evenly matched all first set, then Serena upped her play in the tie-break and sustained it and Venus couldn't handle it and waned, that's it :shrug:

It's not like Serena hasn't beaten Venus in a W final before, she's done it twice in fact.

Exactly! And it's not like Serena ever needed anyone to hand her a final/slam

To me all this excuse of Vee choking degrades her as a champion. And she was never in a position to choke. She may not have played up to her ability considering how well she played leading up to the final, but Serena was dictating from all angles and never gave Venus a chance to settle.

Foxy

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:52 AM
I'll never be banned because I always post relevant threads and never insult posters the way you do. You're just full of hate.

:tape: :tape: delusional much?

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:52 AM
None of the above. Serena was just the better player today. Sorry, no excuses. Please don't try to diminish Serena's win. Serena kept Vee pinned back on the baseline. Serena was the only quality grass court player Venus came up against in this tournament and Serena just came off a tough win against another top 10 tough grass court player. She did not allow Vee to play her game. Period. End of story.

What is it ? Thanks I can read a score and watch a match and sorry but the "SHE WAS THE BETTER PLAYER TODAY" line is so...,you know, all players even use it, it's just PR ! I'm a Serena fan, I'm glad that she won, it's a given. I was just trying to have a decent chat about Venus' behavior during the final but then all I got was..."I should be banned". Pathetic.

Knizzle
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:52 AM
Serena was awesome, Venus was just tense, so tense that I think she convinced herself in the second set that her knee was restricting her, but to me it was all mental because once she was about to lose all of a sudden she's moving and hitting. lol. That's the type of pressure there is playing against Serena. I don't know why people thought Venus would be so relaxed and free playing against Serena like she did against others. Serena played a match beyond words. One definitely beyond my imagination and probably one beyond Venus'. Looking at Venus' reaction in the second set she seemed like "Dang, I don't know what I can do when she's playing like this"

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:10 AM
When venus first beat her sister in a slam, she felt more pain for her sister than joy in the win, then preceeded to lose a "serena" slam worth of grand slam finals to her sister.


They both actually looked pretty happy after the AO 2nd round :shrug:

MrSerenaWilliams
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:10 AM
For one thing, Venus needs to get another coach because being coached by the same coaches is not good.

They don't train together anymore. Venus trains with David Witt and Serena trains with Sasha Bajin. Yeah Oracene and Richard are still listed as their "coaches" but those are titles in theory only, not in practice. David and Sasha do more with Venus and Serena than Richard and Oracene.


Try again :wavey:

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:11 AM
Serena didn't play for Russia then. She's now [2] S. Williamsova (RUS)

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:14 AM
They don't train together anymore. Venus trains with David Witt and Serena trains with Sasha Bajin. Yeah Oracene and Richard are still listed as their "coaches" but those are titles in theory only, not in practice. David and Sasha do more with Venus and Serena than Richard and Oracene.


Try again :wavey:

Also from the reports David Witt has a general understanding of what is missing of Venus' game and actually is working with her on a number of shots. Notably a more reliable kick 2nd serve.

RVD
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:17 AM
You don't play tennis, do you?
This was my observation as well.
I mean you can always tell the posters who never even played a competitive sport by their posts. :lol:

These posters act as the 1st set never happened.
That first set was epic IMO. Also up until 2-2 in the second, I though Vee would take the match.

I suppose people will see what they want to see. :shrug:

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:20 AM
Serena was clearly the better player today. It is true. No way Venus could get in as much as she liked with Serena hitting like that. Serena controlled the match from the early stages and Venus was always having to contend, contend, contend. Then she couldn't stay with Serena anymore and Serena ran away with it.

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:20 AM
What is it ? Thanks I can read a score and watch a match and sorry but the "SHE WAS THE BETTER PLAYER TODAY" line is so...,you know, all players even use it, it's just PR ! I'm a Serena fan, I'm glad that she won, it's a given. I was just trying to have a decent chat about Venus' behavior during the final but then all I got was..."I should be banned". Pathetic.

OMG, I don't know what you want here. We don't agree with you, at least none of the people so far. I don't think I gave you a line of bullshit. I gave you my answer and gave you my reasoning for it, but that's still not good enough.

I don't think Venus behaved in a particular way. It was a lackluster final, but both players tried to win. Vee may have been frustrated for the reasons I gave. If Vee believed the way you say, she wouldn't have won last year. :shrug: I don't get the logic here.

RVD
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:21 AM
http://i40.tinypic.com/8z45s1.gif:spit:

RVD
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:30 AM
Disagree with that. if the shot she hit on break point that barely missed had gone in, The match would have been totally different. Serena would have been the one to panick prolly as Venus would have served out the set more than likely.....

The match was a match of serving...and Serena's serve held up till the end....I was impressed with both of their serving first set.... Anyone who says Venus has no second serve.... look at some of those kick serves that were waaaaay over Serena's head in the first...:worship: :worship:
At one point in the first set, both ladies held a 100% first serve stat.
Yet no one is talking about that part of Vee's statistic.
Serena simply recovered from her hic-cup, and raised her level, while Vee dropped a degree. But that was after Serena jerked her all over the court and applying pressure of her own.
Also, Venus knew that she had to keep the pressure on Serena throughout the match, or the results would have been far worse.

I don't care what anyone thinks, this was a MUCH higher level match than is being given credit.
Just because Venus didn't win doesn't mean that she didn't care about winning.
She was playing THE GREATEST TENNIS LEGEND OF THIS GENERATION for crying out loud. :worship:

Kabezya
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:37 AM
If Venus really thinks like that then Venus is an ass. If Venus can't motivate herself to play a grandslam final then she is not a real champion and her fans should know that they are supporting a loser. Serena is a grown ass woman almost 30 years old, she does not require Venus to protect her feelings.

This is what it all boils down to. Some fans should think of this and what they are admitting to before they post.

Tennisstar86
Jul 5th, 2009, 02:56 AM
Neither, she panicked...... cause she was down a set and Serena was serving out of her mind....

new-york
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:06 AM
Serena was awesome, Venus was just tense, so tense that I think she convinced herself in the second set that her knee was restricting her, but to me it was all mental because once she was about to lose all of a sudden she's moving and hitting. lol. That's the type of pressure there is playing against Serena. I don't know why people thought Venus would be so relaxed and free playing against Serena like she did against others. Serena played a match beyond words. One definitely beyond my imagination and probably one beyond Venus'. Looking at Venus' reaction in the second set she seemed like "Dang, I don't know what I can do when she's playing like this"

:worship:

joz
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:09 AM
Stunning that Venus came to the net way less that Elena D. did against Serena...
ED’s Net approaches vs. Serena 26 and VW’s Net Approaches vs. Serena 13
Even if you look at only the first two sets, since Vee didn't get to a third set, it's still ED 17 and VW 13, That is STRANGE that Vee didn't get to the net more... With the game VEE plays!!! And we have to consider that ED has, pretty much, a "baseline" game was in a situation to get to the net more.
I LOVE Vee... but I have to admit that today showed why she has not dominated the tour. She had no plan "B"... it's one speed, one style, one tactic, no matter what the siutation... and while I've noticed that before, I've tried to ignore it. Today it could not be ignored!

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:24 AM
My conclusion is that Venus should have won handily today but is kind of a lunatic (WHICH SERENA IS NOT). She doens't really care about history when Serena is on the other other side of the net (what a mistake...), is happy to make her sister happy (which is fine). Venus is a Gemini btw. Nothing wrong. This is her karma.
foolishness.

The facts is, past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Not in the stock market and not on the tennis court.

Anyone who has watched slams for a while knows that it's not just about your "form" during a tournament, also WHO you've played along the way and how much have you been TESTED.

Venus hadn't been tested all tournament. Yes she was playing well, but how she would hold up under the test of an elite player(one that would make her play) was unknown. Serena on the other hand had weathered the storm Elena put her through and it TOUGHENED her. Couple that fact with her level coming down after Serena won the TB and you end up with the result you got.

Bottom line. Serena's draw was tougher. She was tested and was ready to play a COMPLETE match against a big hitter

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:43 AM
foolishness.

The facts is, past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Not in the stock market and not on the tennis court.

Anyone who has watched slams for a while mows that it's not just about your "form" during a tournament, also WHO you've played along the way and how much have you been TESTED.

Venus hadn't been tested all tournament. Yes she was playing well, but how she would hold up under the test of an elite player(one that would make her play) was unknown. Serena on the other hand had weathered the storm Elena put her through and it TOUGHENED her. Couple that fact with her level coming down after Serena won the TB and you end up with the result you got.

Bottom line. Serena's draw was tougher. She was tested and was ready to play a COMPLETE match against a big hitter

:worship::worship::worship: Same thing I said, only you said it better. ;)

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:48 AM
Storm (from X-Men)- " Do you know What happens to a toad when it is struck by lightning? The same that happens to everything else that gets hit by lightening it explodes.

Do you know what happens when a player comes up against a determined and hungry Serena Williams. The same thing that happens to every other player, they lose.

It's not a matter of Venus getting her head right or making alterations- it's all about Serena. If she's on top of her game Venus goes down every time- even on grass. Tennis is mostly mental and Venus will never have what Serena does in the mental department.

Best bet is to do your absolute best and keep it close- and of course pray Serena is little off, cuz if she's on it's lights out! Sorry.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:52 AM
Denise,

you and I are damn near ALWAYS of like mind!!

Denise4925
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:53 AM
Denise,

you and I are damn near ALWAYS of like mind!!

True, true. :lol:

Stamp Paid
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:56 AM
If Venus hasnt realized and overcome this mental hurdle at this point in her professional career, she really is pathetic.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:56 AM
:rolls:

Morrissey
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:02 AM
I agree with the OP I believe Venus loss is more mental then people realize. Let's be honest if Venus was playing ANYONE ELSE she would give 200% percent to win. I am not suggesting Venus didn't try I am saying she did not play to full capacity. Venus is old in tennis standards she is 29 and she is NOT getting any younger. I wonder if this is it for Venus?

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:10 AM
I agree with the OP I believe Venus loss is more mental then people realize. Let's be honest if Venus was playing ANYONE ELSE she would give 200% percent to win. I am not suggesting Venus didn't try I am saying she did not play to full capacity. Venus is old in tennis standards she is 29 and she is NOT getting any younger. I wonder if this is it for Venus?

As a Venus supporter I can understand why you would want to believe that.

The alternative to that train of thought is that Serena is simply mentally stronger and or a better big match player (or maybe just a better player in general).

When Venus wins she give it her all, but when she loses she's too busy being big sister and not focused enough on winning....lol

It's as if Serena is an after thought, when in fact Serena is the answer to the question,
"Why did Venus lose today?".

Whatever helps you Venus fans sleep at night...

PreOp
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:27 AM
I don't think Venus choked, or handed the match to Serena. The head to head wouldn't be what it is if Venus were throwing matches Serena's way. Venus lost. Not only that, she didn't show up. This happens from time to time with even the greatest of players. Who can forget Sharapova (hardly in either sister's league) steam rolling Serena, who too didn't show up despite romping to the final, in 2004.

However there is a family dynamic in play. Venus is the nurturing big sister, who has repeatedly stated that she is happy when Serena wins, even when it is at her expense. Who can ever forget Venus joyfully celebrating on court her loss to Serena in the Roland Garros final. Serena has repeatedly stated that growing up her motivation was to beat Venus, and is always devastated when she cannot pull it off. Little Sis hardly strays from her "It's all about me" refrain. Nevertheless she does stress that she owes all to Venus.

It was lovely moment on camera when Serena was passing the wall where her name was freshly inscribed, and she counted joyfully one through eight of the name Williams 2000 through 2009.

The Sisters will go into the hall of fame together. They will remain a huge hunk of tennis lore together. We each do have our favorite sister. However, recognizing that it is a family thing, we should all be happy a Williams has won.

sky20748
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:22 AM
I don't think Venus choked, or handed the match to Serena. The head to head wouldn't be what it is if Venus were throwing matches Serena's way. Venus lost. Not only that, she didn't show up. This happens from time to time with even the greatest of players. Who can forget Sharapova (hardly in either sister's league) steam rolling Serena, who too didn't show up despite romping to the final, in 2004.

However there is a family dynamic in play. Venus is the nurturing big sister, who has repeatedly stated that she is happy when Serena wins, even when it is at her expense. Who can ever forget Venus joyfully celebrating on court her loss to Serena in the Roland Garros final. Serena has repeatedly stated that growing up her motivation was to beat Venus, and is always devastated when she cannot pull it off. Little Sis hardly strays from her "It's all about me" refrain. Nevertheless she does stress that she owes all to Venus.

It was lovely moment on camera when Serena was passing the wall where her name was freshly inscribed, and she counted joyfully one through eight of the name Williams 2000 through 2009.

The Sisters will go into the hall of fame together. They will remain a huge hunk of tennis lore together. We each do have our favorite sister. However, recognizing that it is a family thing, we should all be happy a Williams has won.

You hit the nail right on the head.I guess it's just hard when Venus is left standing with the maiden trophy while serena who's already won this year pulls if off again.But again it's up to Venus to decide to show up to the party because Serena came with bells on.l

darrinbaker00
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:32 AM
I agree with the OP I believe Venus loss is more mental then people realize. Let's be honest if Venus was playing ANYONE ELSE she would give 200% percent to win. I am not suggesting Venus didn't try I am saying she did not play to full capacity. Venus is old in tennis standards she is 29 and she is NOT getting any younger. I wonder if this is it for Venus?
Hi, Orville! :wavey:

sky20748
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:36 AM
Of course Venus cared and cares about winning but something was off today. It is not taking away from Serena playing out of her mind. The better player won today. There are Venus fans and Serena fans and we both hate when our favorite lose. It's just that me as a long time supporter just want to see her get her mental together.to get that toughness like Serena has. Yes they are 2 different players but my god Venus has to step up majorly. I dont care if this wasnt Wimbledon. I would still feel this way no matter what tournament she was entered. It's just hard to see the disappointment on her face and it will be there for awhile to come. But in order for Venus to pull out of this mental collaspe that she goes into she needs to focus and become a force. Hell study your sister cuz hell she is a force of all forces.

Venus:

Learn to become more aggressive. This passiveness is not going to cut it.

It's in you hell you have 7 grand slams and before you leave this sport let's make it many many more.

Morrissey
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:42 AM
Maybe it is time for Venus to get her own coach? I think it's odd that a 29 year old woman has her parents as her coach. I believe that Venus should of gotten her own coach a long time ago. But it's too late now. Serena knows Venus game inside out. Some people can argue it's because they are sisters. However, I disagree, I think if Venus was more independent, got her own coach earlier in her career she probably would of been more successful. If Venus distanced herself from the Williams family in the sense of getting her own coaching, living on her own and all that stuff and being more indepenent. Yes Serena is a better player but Venus mentality has got to change she's old she's not young. How many more slam chances does Venus got? I don't think she has much time left.

Morrissey
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:44 AM
I think Venus is foolish she should of gotten her own coach a decade ago and separated from her family. The reason Venus loses to Serena too much is they are too close. Yes the Williams Sisters are siblings but this is business and a lot of money is on the line. Now if Venus was MORE independent, got her own coaching, lived separate from Serena and dictated her career her mentality would be different.

Cat's Pajamas
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:51 AM
Venus didn't choke, well maybe at 15-40 4-3* when she overhit that passing shot. Venus presented Serena with a few golden opportunities and Serena took them and never eased her foot off the brake. Serena raised her level at 6-6 and Venus slowed way down. Easy as that.

darrinbaker00
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:55 AM
As a Venus supporter I can understand why you would want to believe that.

The alternative to that train of thought is that Serena is simply mentally stronger and or a better big match player (or maybe just a better player in general).

When Venus wins she give it her all, but when she loses she's too busy being big sister and not focused enough on winning....lol

It's as if Serena is an after thought, when in fact Serena is the answer to the question,
"Why did Venus lose today?".

Whatever helps you Venus fans sleep at night...
You know I'm as big a Venus fan as they come, Sir Stefwhit, and even I admit that there was nothing Venus could do today. In 10 service games, Serena only lost eight points, and three of those were in one game! Venus only had the one bad game at 2-3 in the second (doubling on break point), and in the last game, she fought off three championship points before Serena finally closed the deal. Also, as someone pointed out earlier, if Venus had made that forehand pass on her first break point, she's up 5-3 and serving for the first set, and the way she was serving at that point in the match, she likely would have held. I give all credit to Serena, because she knew full well that anything less than what she did would not have gotten it done against Venus Williams at Wimbledon.

darrinbaker00
Jul 5th, 2009, 06:00 AM
Maybe it is time for Venus to get her own coach? I think it's odd that a 29 year old woman has her parents as her coach. I believe that Venus should of gotten her own coach a long time ago. But it's too late now. Serena knows Venus game inside out. Some people can argue it's because they are sisters. However, I disagree, I think if Venus was more independent, got her own coach earlier in her career she probably would of been more successful. If Venus distanced herself from the Williams family in the sense of getting her own coaching, living on her own and all that stuff and being more indepenent. Yes Serena is a better player but Venus mentality has got to change she's old she's not young. How many more slam chances does Venus got? I don't think she has much time left.
Get back on your meds, Orville.

kris719
Jul 5th, 2009, 06:09 AM
Are you implying that Venus let Serena win? Are you implying that the match was fixed?

look, i dislike the WS as much as anyone, but this is ridiculous.

spencercarlos
Jul 5th, 2009, 06:09 AM
As a Venus supporter I can understand why you would want to believe that.

The alternative to that train of thought is that Serena is simply mentally stronger and or a better big match player (or maybe just a better player in general).

When Venus wins she give it her all, but when she loses she's too busy being big sister and not focused enough on winning....lol

It's as if Serena is an after thought, when in fact Serena is the answer to the question,
"Why did Venus lose today?".

Whatever helps you Venus fans sleep at night...
Exactly i agree, i think Venus can very well lose to Serena playing some good tennis, still i think today´s match Serena´s serve was a huge difference in today´s match and Venus seemed a little hampered on her movement. Still no matter how you look at it, the better player on day won and that was Serena.

As for the thread starter how in hell Venus is going to stop being big sister? :lol: Its in her blood.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:17 AM
last year the fans claimed she was over this hurdle now, then she lost at the US Open and the excuse came back....

beat serena at YEC and dubai and the mental hurdle thing was once again overcome...

Miami and Wimbledon she loses to serena and the hurdle is back....

hmmmm

sweetpeas
Jul 5th, 2009, 04:18 PM
This year Serena made it a serving contest, and she won. Serena's servign was just out of this world.

That" was the real different!

Sha_ra_po_va
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:35 PM
Ok, I know this won't be a popular view, but I absolutely believe Venus let Serena win yesterday. How do I know?
1. Venus had no game face the whole of the match - no grimaces, looked like she was barely trying.
2. To go 6-2 up in wimbledon titles over serena would have been too much for serena to claw back, would have made their legacy too skewed in venus' favour.
3. Venus had played so much better the whole tournament - then doesn't win a set?
4. Lots of shots looked staged - loopy shots they'd normally blast, poor rallying shots.
5. This means serena holds 3 of the 4 Grand Slams and doesn't complicate Player of the Year awards.
6. Just a gut feeling!
I'm beiong slightly tongue in cheek with this - but half of me believes it! What do others think?:confused:

volta
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Thanks for sharing

jefrilibra
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:39 PM
You are brilliant.:worship:

Anything else you'd like to share?

Ballbasher
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:40 PM
Ok, I know this won't be a popular view, but I absolutely believe Venus let Serena win yesterday. How do I know?
1. Venus had no game face the whole of the match - no grimaces, looked like she was barely trying.
2. To go 6-2 up in wimbledon titles over serena would have been too much for serena to claw back, would have made their legacy too skewed in venus' favour.
3. Venus had played so much better the whole tournament - then doesn't win a set?
4. Lots of shots looked staged - loopy shots they'd normally blast, poor rallying shots.
5. This means serena holds 3 of the 4 Grand Slams and doesn't complicate Player of the Year awards.
6. Just a gut feeling!
I'm beiong slightly tongue in cheek with this - but half of me believes it! What do others think?:confused:
Your other half is right. :)

Temperenka
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:40 PM
No.
1) Venus never has a 'game face' really... she is very collected and also was last year when she won.
2) 10 would still be greater than 8. Also, tennis is an individual sport and Venus and Serena understand that.
3) Dinara Safina and Agnieskza Radwanska aren't quite the same as Serena Williams.
4) The only shot I thought was odd was Serena's first match point, but that wouldn't strength your argument.
5) Who cares about Player of the Year awards? Surely that wasn't going through Venus or Serena's mind this fortnight.
6) Your gut feeling is wrong.

Serena was better on the day and came out more aggressive. Thus, she won.

50Sense
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Go. away.

Mastodon
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:44 PM
Ok, I know this won't be a popular view, but I absolutely believe Venus let Serena win yesterday. How do I know?
1. Venus had no game face the whole of the match - no grimaces, looked like she was barely trying.
2. To go 6-2 up in wimbledon titles over serena would have been too much for serena to claw back, would have made their legacy too skewed in venus' favour.
3. Venus had played so much better the whole tournament - then doesn't win a set?
4. Lots of shots looked staged - loopy shots they'd normally blast, poor rallying shots.
5. This means serena holds 3 of the 4 Grand Slams and doesn't complicate Player of the Year awards.
6. Just a gut feeling!
I'm beiong slightly tongue in cheek with this - but half of me believes it! What do others think?:confused:

If Venus Williams threw that final there's a more than even chance of Santa Claus decending down my chimney and leaving presents under the tree this December.

Miss Atomic Bomb
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:45 PM
I know right, Venus is so dumb. For her, Serena getting the player of the year Award (:haha:) is more important than 6th wimbledon title :rolleyes:

Galsen
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:49 PM
everytime they play and Serena won the match y'll think Venus gave her the match because she smiled or something like it
Venus will always smiles Serena is her baby sister but it doesn't mean she wants Serena to win over her
and you say she played well the whole tournament and lost at the end
so Safina threw RG final for Kuzzy?

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Bullllllshit.

LightWarrior
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:56 PM
Ok, I know this won't be a popular view

I posted more or less the same thread yesterday and I pretty much got insulted. Your turn :)

Justin SW
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:58 PM
If Venus Williams threw that final there's a more than even chance of Santa Claus decending down my chimney and leaving presents under the tree this December.

What do ou mean :confused::confused: I mean of course he will :rolleyes::rolleyes:

miffedmax
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Actually, Dementieva threw the semi.

During the changeover at 6-7, Serena promised Elena that if she threw the semi, Venus would let Lena win the final.

Elena being a blonde, it's just now dawning on her that she got suckered.

Soliloque
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:05 PM
I think the same

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Dulko should have threw that Sharapova match.

Oh the thought process of some posters.

vadin124
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:20 PM
Venus Williams wouldn't "throw" the first round match at a 10k in Kathmandu, yet alone the biggest stage in tennis; the Wimbledon final

:o

Amanda
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:23 PM
You're right! Venus and Serena just admitted it.

The Witch-king
Jul 5th, 2009, 09:28 PM
I'm watching it now. I don't know why you say she didn't show any emotion because Venus was much more expressive than usual especially when she lost her serve the first time with those fug errors.

xan
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:08 PM
So... If Venus played her best, and Elena nearly beat Serena.... Then Elena could have beaten Vee in straight sets!

dreamgoddess099
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:25 PM
I feel like throwing something at the op.:rolleyes: Lol at the thought that either sister needs to other to throw the match in order to win.

John.
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:29 PM
:weirdo:

DefyingGravity
Jul 5th, 2009, 10:44 PM
And you know what, Kim Clijsters threw all those finals against Justine Henin as well. Because, you know, Kim said to Justine "I can't stand watching you be disappointed at Roland Garros, so you know what, take this title from me."

And you know what, Dementieva threw those finals against Myskina and Kuznetsova as well, because she's so nice and thought, "You know what, someone else should have some millions and be known as the best Russian tennis players..."

Hell, even Chrissie Evert threw those finals against Martina Navratilova. She thought to herself, "You know, those records that I could get as the greatest player of all time...those aren't worth anything, so I'll just give it up to Martina. Maybe she'll appreciate it and give me some titles back!"

Don't go there.

The Daviator
Jul 6th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Yeah, threw a lot of first serves into the net, you mean.

Serena was the best on the day, and she's celebrating now as the champ, finito.

friendsita
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:21 AM
why V????

RVD
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:59 AM
last year the fans claimed she was over this hurdle now, then she lost at the US Open and the excuse came back....

beat serena at YEC and dubai and the mental hurdle thing was once again overcome...

Miami and Wimbledon she loses to serena and the hurdle is back....

hmmmmI've become a fan of yours. :lol: :lol:
That was some funny shit. :worship:

Ellen Dawson
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:01 AM
Neither. I don't think Venus was 100% percent there physically. Either fatigue, nagging injury or perhaps a cold or combo of all of that. It didn't help matters that Serena's serve was popping. :angel:

Donny
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:11 AM
last year the fans claimed she was over this hurdle now, then she lost at the US Open and the excuse came back....

beat serena at YEC and dubai and the mental hurdle thing was once again overcome...

Miami and Wimbledon she loses to serena and the hurdle is back....

hmmmm

I've noticed this too. They act as if Venus should win every single match against her sister.

RVD
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:15 AM
Ok, I know this won't be a popular view, but I absolutely believe Venus let Serena win yesterday. How do I know?
1. Venus had no game face the whole of the match - no grimaces, looked like she was barely trying. That's Vee's normal game-face. :shrug: Even the commentators remarked on how she's hard to read during her matches. Plus she looked down-right piss after some obvious put-aways. How could you possibly miss that?! Incidentally, Venus did plenty of grunting during the match. I know because I think she's sexy when she does. :tape:
2. To go 6-2 up in wimbledon titles over serena would have been too much for serena to claw back, would have made their legacy too skewed in venus' favour. WTF are you implying?!
3. Venus had played so much better the whole tournament - then doesn't win a set? That's because Serena was better prepared than Venus was in her matches. Does Serena's Quarter-Final & semi-Final matches mean anything to you people?!
4. Lots of shots looked staged - loopy shots they'd normally blast, poor rallying shots. Those are called off-speed returns and pace. Again, even the commentators commented on this. And in fact, Venus claimed two points in a row off of these. Honestly, what match were you watching?
5. This means serena holds 3 of the 4 Grand Slams and doesn't complicate Player of the Year awards. This was actually kind of funny. :lol: But it also suggests that Serena fixed her matches with the rest of her opponents just to reach the Final. That's some damn good acting on everyone's part. :worship:
6. Just a gut feeling! Oh GREAT SWAMI Sha_ra_po_va! :haha:
I'm beiong slightly tongue in cheek with this - but half of me believes it! What do others think?:confused:I think I want a hit of that reefer in your right hand. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rasta.gif

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/joint.gif ...pass...Puff-puff...pass. :tape:

AcesHigh
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:21 AM
I've noticed this too. They act as if Venus should win every single match against her sister.

You criticize me for generalizing Serena fans but do the exact same? :rolleyes:

Right now, there are a lot of Venus fans making the rest of us look bad. We're calling them out. There are a lot of sensible Vee fans who have been constant members of the board for years now.

Donny
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:29 AM
You criticize me for generalizing Serena fans but do the exact same? :rolleyes:

Right now, there are a lot of Venus fans making the rest of us look bad. We're calling them out. There are a lot of sensible Vee fans who have been constant members of the board for years now.

I never implied the behavior was typical of Venus fans. There's significant overlap between Serena and Venus fans here; if I implicated ALL Venus fans, I'd be implicating more than half the Serena fans on this site as well, which obviously wouldn't make any sense.

Edit: the poster I quoted didn't even imply it was all Venus fans. I have no idea why you'd assume I was either.

BlameSerena
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:42 AM
I think Venus is foolish she should of gotten her own coach a decade ago and separated from her family. The reason Venus loses to Serena too much is they are too close. Yes the Williams Sisters are siblings but this is business and a lot of money is on the line. Now if Venus was MORE independent, got her own coaching, lived separate from Serena and dictated her career her mentality would be different.
I think that's a bit much. Separate from her family? No, she would still have to face Serena playing and serving well with as much determination and motivation as ever.

I think Serena served great and showed some nice variety. I think Vee didn't rise to the occasion, partly because of Serena, partly because of herself...:shrug:. The better player won.

simonsaystennis
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:48 AM
Neither of the sisters would EVER "hand out" a grand slam final to another. Or any other match for that matter. Absolutely ridiculous to even wonder.

tennisIlove09
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:50 AM
It comes down to Venus vs. Serena, really for the best players of their generation.
but WHY is Serena doing so much better than Venus. Venus has more career titles, Serena has 4 more Slams and more weeks at #1. But why? Really? They were raised and coached by the same players. Realistically, there games are very, very similar. Service wise, Venus has more speed, Serena has more precision. Off the ground, it is a cointoss who has the better strokes (really it depends on the day). Movement is a toss up and depends on the surface. Venus is a better net player. Serena seemingly has more intensity on the court. Head to head is virtually deadlocked.

It comes down to matches in Slam finals. Venus has won 2 of 8. That's a funny stat against a player that she is virtually equal in. Can we blame it on "older sister" curse? Maybe for part of it.

I think Venus needs to get meaner, as Richard always said Serena was meaner. Last year after the WB final, Serena was pissed. She was a bad loser. But, what did she do? She worked her ass off and won the US Open, Aussie and now Wimbledon.

Let's hope that Venus picks it up, goes a tear and wins the US Open, OZ and Wimbledon. IMO, the sisters are so evenly matched that they should be level in terms of numbers. I doubt it will happen because when it comes down to sister vs. sister in Slam finals, Serena doesnt seem to care ... Venus still does.

BlameSerena
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:55 AM
It comes down to Venus vs. Serena, really for the best players of their generation.
but WHY is Serena doing so much better than Venus. Venus has more career titles, Serena has 4 more Slams and more weeks at #1. But why? Really? They were raised and coached by the same players. Realistically, there games are very, very similar. Service wise, Venus has more speed, Serena has more precision. Off the ground, it is a cointoss who has the better strokes (really it depends on the day). Movement is a toss up and depends on the surface. Venus is a better net player. Serena seemingly has more intensity on the court. Head to head is virtually deadlocked.

It comes down to matches in Slam finals. Venus has won 2 of 8. That's a funny stat against a player that she is virtually equal in. Can we blame it on "older sister" curse? Maybe for part of it.

I think Venus needs to get meaner, as Richard always said Serena was meaner. Last year after the WB final, Serena was pissed. She was a bad loser. But, what did she do? She worked her ass off and won the US Open, Aussie and now Wimbledon.

Let's hope that Venus picks it up, goes a tear and wins the US Open, OZ and Wimbledon. IMO, the sisters are so evenly matched that they should be level in terms of numbers. I doubt it will happen because when it comes down to sister vs. sister in Slam finals, Serena doesnt seem to care ... Venus still does.
I agree they are similar in a lot of ways, but that last line is such an easy way out. Because Vee cares about Serena, she loses? Yet, Serena I guess completely hates her sister because she has managed to get the better of her in slams?

Let's remember their h2h is still very close. So for that reason I don't accept Venus "caring" as her reason for losing to Serena when it does happen.

I think it was Venus who said she forgets she's playing her sister when an ace goes by at 125 mph, or something like that.

Anyway, Venus has not excelled particularly well at the slams (outside of Wimby), but not all at the hand of Serena. There are two other matches this year in slams that further explain the Venus mentality at times. Serena is not like that, and is able to take care of players that go away or lose focus in matches, more times than not.

Stamp Paid
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:14 AM
last year the fans claimed she was over this hurdle now, then she lost at the US Open and the excuse came back....

beat serena at YEC and dubai and the mental hurdle thing was once again overcome...

Miami and Wimbledon she loses to serena and the hurdle is back....

hmmmmHmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

Donny
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:22 AM
I think I want a hit of that reefer in your right hand. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rasta.gif

http://deephousepage.com/smilies/joint.gif ...pass...Puff-puff...pass. :tape:

Sometimes I wonder who has the time to design pothead emoticons... other times I'm just thankful.

RVD
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:30 AM
It comes down to Venus vs. Serena, really for the best players of their generation.
but WHY is Serena doing so much better than Venus. Venus has more career titles, Serena has 4 more Slams and more weeks at #1. But why? Really? They were raised and coached by the same players. Realistically, there games are very, very similar. Service wise, Venus has more speed, Serena has more precision. Off the ground, it is a cointoss who has the better strokes (really it depends on the day). Movement is a toss up and depends on the surface. Venus is a better net player. Serena seemingly has more intensity on the court. Head to head is virtually deadlocked.

It comes down to matches in Slam finals. Venus has won 2 of 8. That's a funny stat against a player that she is virtually equal in. Can we blame it on "older sister" curse? Maybe for part of it.

I think Venus needs to get meaner, as Richard always said Serena was meaner. Last year after the WB final, Serena was pissed. She was a bad loser. But, what did she do? She worked her ass off and won the US Open, Aussie and now Wimbledon.

Let's hope that Venus picks it up, goes a tear and wins the US Open, OZ and Wimbledon. IMO, the sisters are so evenly matched that they should be level in terms of numbers. I doubt it will happen because when it comes down to sister vs. sister in Slam finals, Serena doesnt seem to care ... Venus still does.The main problem is in the assumption that two people are essentially one.
The truth is they aren’t.

Yes, they are sisters, but they are so obviously different in so many ways that they are near opposite of one another.

I was watching a segment of the Wimbledon coverage (during the Finals) where one of the male commentators did a quick and rather entertaining comparison, documenting the differences between Venus and Serena. The most interesting part was in personality and temperament.
Venus was the more seemingly “calmer”…”holds”-it-all-in” (introverted) sister; while Serena possessed the more “in-your-face”..."win-at-all-costs" (extroverted) demeanor. And guess what…
Their playing styles overtly demonstrated those distinct difference as well.

Venus hates to lose. But Serena views losing as a near loss of life experience. She will do whatever it takes to avoid that.
Both have even expressed as much in their documentaries. Serena will even steal Vee’s clothes or misdirect her own sister (when they are out shopping) just to buy an outfit out from under Vee. :lol: She just hates to lose anything that much. :lol:

So whether its looking good, or competing on the court, their differences in their approach to a goal is highlighted between these two more than between any two other players. And these are sisters... born of the same loin and seeds.
That's one major point that needs to be made here, IMHO.

The other is more technical (again, IMO).
Serena's techniques simply break down far less than Vee's. :shrug:
I know many will have a different opinion, and that's fine. But I think that at the end of the day (when comapring their results to date), when we match up their individual techniques, Serena's will edge Venus in several categories.
Add to that Serena's "never say die" attitude and mentality, and you have one very scary (in a good way) athlete. :worship:

I think the people who believe that Venus doesn’t care need to really look at Venus’s expressions when she’s “actively” playing her sister. Sure you'll miss out on simply enjoying the match, but at least it'll answer the question as to whether Vee cares or not.
Just watch when Vee is serving, and returning Serena’s own returns and serves. To me Venus looks like she wants to teach kid sister a big sister lesson whenever I watch them play. Even in this last match, Venus was extremely intense.
But again, Serena is just a tough opponent PERIOD! Regardless of the fact that they are sisters.
So what makes people believe that even though they are sisters, that Venus knows her inside out? Or that they do not want to go all out against each other? I’ll never understand this logic.
Venuse WANTED that Rosewater dish yesterday. She would have made history on so many levels had she won.
Really now...Are there truly people out there who do not believe this?

Junex
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:33 AM
She is comfortable being second best to her sister.
Last years Wimbledon was important since before that she was clearly behind Justine in Slams count making her 3rd best behind Serena & Justine. When she got that seventh, somehow she realized she could contest as being #2 behind Serena equalling Justine's Slam count edging her on Doubles resume. Thus the lackluster performances against Serena @ Slams since USO 08.

Does my hypothetical theory have grounds?..... :devil:
point of consideration... I would love to have Venus as my older sister!!!!!

RVD
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:33 AM
Sometimes I wonder who has the time to design pothead emoticons... other times I'm just thankful.:lol: You and me both. ;)

friendsita
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:41 AM
I hate Serena, wanted V to win.

Lulu.
Jul 6th, 2009, 10:20 AM
last year the fans claimed she was over this hurdle now, then she lost at the US Open and the excuse came back....

beat serena at YEC and dubai and the mental hurdle thing was once again overcome...

Miami and Wimbledon she loses to serena and the hurdle is back....

hmmmm

Very strange indeed.

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2009, 10:36 AM
:lol: So now Vee became the older carring sister again, huh? Each time Vee loses: It's because she cares too much, she throws matches away..like Serena is some amateur who couldn't win otherwise.

where was the sisterly love when beat Serena 6-1 6-0 at Doha?!

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2009, 10:45 AM
Storm (from X-Men)- " Do you know What happens to a toad when it is struck by lightning? The same that happens to everything else that gets hit by lightening it explodes.

Do you know what happens when a player comes up against a determined and hungry Serena Williams. The same thing that happens to every other player, they lose.

It's not a matter of Venus getting her head right or making alterations- it's all about Serena. If she's on top of her game Venus goes down every time- even on grass. Tennis is mostly mental and Venus will never have what Serena does in the mental department.

Best bet is to do your absolute best and keep it close- and of course pray Serena is little off, cuz if she's on it's lights out! Sorry.


Word! Like Vin Diesel said in the first Fast & Furious: "You never OWNED your car" That's it when you play Serena..it was never YOUR match to lose.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 6th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Word! Like Vin Diesel said in the first Fast & Furious: "You never OWNED your car" That's it when you play Serena..it was never YOUR match to lose.

preach it :worship:

Adaora
Jul 6th, 2009, 12:35 PM
I'm sure she would have fought harder to win if it were someone else other than Serena at the other side of the net. I definitely won't say that she handed her the match, but it has to be a lot of pressure playing your sister at a slam final. I believe that 2 days ago, and most of the time, Serena handles that pressure better than Venus.

Bijoux0021
Jul 6th, 2009, 12:52 PM
After Serena's loss at last year's Wimbledon, I never doubt a healthy Serena would comeback to win it this year no matter who was on the other side of the net at the final.

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2009, 01:40 PM
Funny how until Bangalore last year..people were wondering if Serena would EVER beat Vee again.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:37 PM
Funny how until Bangalore last year..people were wondering if Serena would EVER beat Vee again.

at that point she was thinking about her legacy...now she's forgotten about it :tape: same like last year wimbledon...she remembered it then, forgot it this year :tape:

Denise4925
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Actually, Dementieva threw the semi.

During the changeover at 6-7, Serena promised Elena that if she threw the semi, Venus would let Lena win the final.

Elena being a blonde, it's just now dawning on her that she got suckered.

:lol::lol::lol:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:49 PM
Serena didn't play for Russia then. She's now [2] S. Williamsova (RUS)

:haha:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Actually, Dementieva threw the semi.

During the changeover at 6-7, Serena promised Elena that if she threw the semi, Venus would let Lena win the final.

Elena being a blonde, it's just now dawning on her that she got suckered.

:lol::rolls: hilarious.

Diesel
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:58 PM
:lol: So now Vee became the older carring sister again, huh? Each time Vee loses: It's because she cares too much, she throws matches away..like Serena is some amateur who couldn't win otherwise.

where was the sisterly love when beat Serena 6-1 6-0 at Doha?!

Venus obviously wanted Doha more than Wimbledon.... :spit:

bandabou
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:58 PM
at that point she was thinking about her legacy...now she's forgotten about it :tape: same like last year wimbledon...she remembered it then, forgot it this year :tape:

;) :lol:

Denise4925
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:01 PM
The main problem is in the assumption that two people are essentially one.
The truth is they aren’t.

Yes, they are sisters, but they are so obviously different in so many ways that they are near opposite of one another.

I was watching a segment of the Wimbledon coverage (during the Finals) where one of the male commentators did a quick and rather entertaining comparison, documenting the differences between Venus and Serena. The most interesting part was in personality and temperament.
Venus was the more seemingly “calmer”…”holds”-it-all-in” (introverted) sister; while Serena possessed the more “in-your-face”..."win-at-all-costs" (extroverted) demeanor. And guess what…
Their playing styles overtly demonstrated those distinct difference as well.

Venus hates to lose. But Serena views losing as a near loss of life experience. She will do whatever it takes to avoid that.
Both have even expressed as much in their documentaries. Serena will even steal Vee’s clothes or misdirect her own sister (when they are out shopping) just to buy an outfit out from under Vee. :lol: She just hates to lose anything that much. :lol:

So whether its looking good, or competing on the court, their differences in their approach to a goal is highlighted between these two more than between any two other players. And these are sisters... born of the same loin and seeds.
That's one major point that needs to be made here, IMHO.

The other is more technical (again, IMO).
Serena's techniques simply break down far less than Vee's. :shrug:
I know many will have a different opinion, and that's fine. But I think that at the end of the day (when comapring their results to date), when we match up their individual techniques, Serena's will edge Venus in several categories.
Add to that Serena's "never say die" attitude and mentality, and you have one very scary (in a good way) athlete. :worship:

I think the people who believe that Venus doesn’t care need to really look at Venus’s expressions when she’s “actively” playing her sister. Sure you'll miss out on simply enjoying the match, but at least it'll answer the question as to whether Vee cares or not.
Just watch when Vee is serving, and returning Serena’s own returns and serves. To me Venus looks like she wants to teach kid sister a big sister lesson whenever I watch them play. Even in this last match, Venus was extremely intense.
But again, Serena is just a tough opponent PERIOD! Regardless of the fact that they are sisters.
So what makes people believe that even though they are sisters, that Venus knows her inside out? Or that they do not want to go all out against each other? I’ll never understand this logic.
Venuse WANTED that Rosewater dish yesterday. She would have made history on so many levels had she won.
Really now...Are there truly people out there who do not believe this?

People that are chewing on sour grapes and doesn't want to give Serena credit for the win. :shrug:

Your post was just :worship::worship::worship:

Denise4925
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:01 PM
I'm sure she would have fought harder to win if it were someone else other than Serena at the other side of the net. I definitely won't say that she handed her the match, but it has to be a lot of pressure playing your sister at a slam final. I believe that 2 days ago, and most of the time, Serena handles that pressure better than Venus.

She didn't seem to have a problem a year ago. :confused:

HRHoliviasmith
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Venus obviously wanted Doha more than Wimbledon.... :spit:

:lol:

jubliant11
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah I mean. From Wimbledon '08 to Dubai '09, Venus won 3/4 matches Wimbledon, YEC, Dubai to Serena's US. Everyone was like Serena is done against Venus she has no chance anymore.

She loses this match and now it came back? Very "suspicious"

Black Mamba.
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:14 PM
I'm sure she would have fought harder to win if it were someone else other than Serena at the other side of the net. I definitely won't say that she handed her the match, but it has to be a lot of pressure playing your sister at a slam final. I believe that 2 days ago, and most of the time, Serena handles that pressure better than Venus.

I'm sure if another player dropped in the serves Serena threw in Venus could've fought as hard as she wanted and she would still come home with the L. Likewise, how Venus played in last year's final Serena was coming home with the L no matter what she says.

moon
Jul 6th, 2009, 10:36 PM
Serena's serve was on and poppin yesterday, and Vee's wasn't. Her level of play wasn't the same as earlier in the tourney.
That's the end of the story as far as i'm concerned.
I'm :( , but I still love Vee, and to a lesser extent Serena.
Onwards to the US Open.

serenafann
Jul 6th, 2009, 11:22 PM
Matchups matter. Watch Roddick tomorrow. He will look nothing like he did in his last couple of matches.
Venus takes every chance she gets against Serena. She beat her 10 out of last 21 times and even served up a bagel on her last year.
Serena happens to be a bad matchup for Venus when she is playing well.

Excellent point.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 6th, 2009, 11:43 PM
It comes down to Venus vs. Serena, really for the best players of their generation.
but WHY is Serena doing so much better than Venus. Venus has more career titles, Serena has 4 more Slams and more weeks at #1. But why? Really? They were raised and coached by the same players. Realistically, there games are very, very similar. Service wise, Venus has more speed, Serena has more precision. Off the ground, it is a cointoss who has the better strokes (really it depends on the day). Movement is a toss up and depends on the surface. Venus is a better net player. Serena seemingly has more intensity on the court. Head to head is virtually deadlocked.

It comes down to matches in Slam finals. Venus has won 2 of 8. That's a funny stat against a player that she is virtually equal in. Can we blame it on "older sister" curse? Maybe for part of it.

I think Venus needs to get meaner, as Richard always said Serena was meaner. Last year after the WB final, Serena was pissed. She was a bad loser. But, what did she do? She worked her ass off and won the US Open, Aussie and now Wimbledon.

Let's hope that Venus picks it up, goes a tear and wins the US Open, OZ and Wimbledon. IMO, the sisters are so evenly matched that they should be level in terms of numbers. I doubt it will happen because when it comes down to sister vs. sister in Slam finals, Serena doesnt seem to care ... Venus still does.

:rolleyes: Dallas, Dallas, Dallas....,

See, it's dissembling like this that makes your posts so discreditable.

Despite it having been pointed out to you earlier in this thread, the utter lunacy in your attempt to make Venus and Serena's game one and the same, here you go again.

So let's look at your nonsense one foolish assertion at a time.

It comes down to Venus vs. Serena, really for the best players of their generation.

Foolishness. Quite frankly, there are at least a couple other women who can lay claim to the SECOND best player of their generation (Venus being the leading candidate), but not THE best. That spot alone, by all credible observers, belongs to Serena J. Williams. So, we could stop there, because the rest of your house of illogical cards is basically build on that assertion. But let's don't... They were raised and coached by the same players.
So? My siblings and I were raised by the same parents and are VERY different in many significant ways. As for being coached by the same person. :lol: That's like saying "why isn't Hanty as good as Lindsay was? They were both coached by Landsdorp?" Again, TWO. DIFFERENT. PEOPLE. there games are very, very similar. Service wise, Venus has more speed, Serena has more precision. Good Lawd, man! Just listen to yourself. You're contradicting your own point. Their service games AREN'T that similar. Speed v/s Precision. Speed does you no good if you can't get it in! And obviously Serena's serves aren't exactly "slow," and I haven't even mentioned the distinction in SECOND serves. :rolleyes: Off the ground, it is a cointoss who has the better strokes (really it depends on the day). Serena's steadier. Her forehand technique is better. That's a known fact. Movement is a toss up and depends on the surface. Come on! I KNOW you don't believe that. Venus' movement is BETTER than Serena's. She's definitely fleeter, but even all movement being equal, Vee wins out her because of her wing span.

You see the emerging theme? ...They're different players. :sigh: but we continue...

Venus is a better net player. Agreed- again a distinction.
Serena seemingly has more intensity on the court. If by intensity you mean emotion, yes- obviously. But again, highlighting their differences undermines your own point.
It comes down to matches in Slam finals. Venus has won 2 of 8. That's a funny stat against a player that she is virtually equal in. Can we blame it on "older sister" curse? Maybe for part of it. No. It has nothing to do with some Veenut fabricated "older sister curse." It is simply the result of the one- and arguably most important- distinction you failed to mention- one that has been acknowledged by virtually EVERYONE in the tennis world is in the area of MENTAL TOUGHNESS!

In this area, Serena is the undisputed QUEEN. This distinction- and this distinction alone- would be enough even IF everything else were equal (which they are obviously not.)

I don't know, Dallas, maybe I do you a disservice and just don't realize you see these things with your heart and not with your head, and you are not the sneaky, dissembling, Serena hating lout I took you for at VS fans. :shrug: But the Sisters skill sets are unique enough unto themselves that distinctions HAVE to be made. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't change that fact.

tennisIlove09
Jul 7th, 2009, 03:39 AM
Honestly Doublefist, there is a mental situation with Venus. Having watched both sisters play their entire careers, Serena is not THAT much better than Venus to have such a huge 6-2 lead in Slam finals. When you think that in every other aspect of their careers they are almost even ... that one stat leads me to think that something else is going on. I could put my opinions in to your post above, but why? You always assume I am a Serena-hating fool and it's pointless. I have never hated Serena. I have never hated anyone in my life. I have no time for hate in my life. I honest just call things as I see it. When it's something negative against Serena (or any player), I become a hater from Serena fans(or that players fan base) on the message boards :haha:It's silly. Really, I just view myself as honest.

As for the post though ... IF Venus' first serve is on, IMO it's the best serve in the game. Consistently though, Serena has the better serve because she controls it better. Venus goes off too often on her serve.

Off the ground, I still say it's a toss up. Serena technically has a better forehand sure. But backhand the edge goes to Venus. Still depends ont he day they play though, really. Serena's forehand was horrible in the semis against Dementieva, for example.

Venus is a better move on grass no doubt. Everything else is neck and neck. Serena is faster, Venus has the longer reach that helps her out a lot. Venus had adapted to the one handed slice more effectively than Serena as well, IMO.

The matches come down to a mental thing. I think the thing that I remember most in their matches steams back to the 2001 US Open. THe first All Williams final. Venus won easily 6-2 6-4. Venus seemingly took control of most points pretty early. Serena made a ton of errors. The result? Venus hugging her sister at the net saying "This doesn't even feel like a win".

What happened next? Venus, IMO, played two of the worst matches in her career against Serena in Miami and then Paris. It seemingly had changed last year after the Wimbledon and US Open. IMO, it went a huge step backwards at Wimbledon this year, where Venus didnt even look like she cared. She's far too content being runner up to Serena. For someonet hat is as good as Venus, that's a shame, because she has the capability to match Serena stroke for stroke, slam for slam, IMO. The fact that it's a 6-2 lead for Serena is shocking.

Just my opinion though.

jubliant11
Jul 7th, 2009, 04:00 AM
Honestly Doublefist, there is a mental situation with Venus.

Obviously. They have both played 14 slam finals each. Serena is 11-3. Venus is 7-7. Clearly, Serena is the better mentally.


As for the post though ... IF Venus' first serve is on, IMO it's the best serve in the game.

No even when Venus serves good on a day, her placement is still rocky.


Off the ground, I still say it's a toss up. Serena technically has a better forehand sure. But backhand the edge goes to Venus.

Serena wins off the ground due to technique and being cleaner.


Venus had adapted to the one handed slice more effectively than Serena as well, IMO.

Worst sentence of this post. :spit:

The matches come down to a mental thing.

Duh, even non sister finals is mental.


What happened next? Venus, IMO, played two of the worst matches in her career against Serena in Miami and then Paris.

Serena should have won RG over Venus given her form going into the tournament. Not to mention Serena is a better clay court player.

Bottom line IS REALLY this. Serena's strategic, mental, and technical advantages makes her better than Venus. The only thing Venus consistently has over current day Serena is movement. When Serena was at her peak she even beat Venus at that. Hence five straight slam finals.

Serena has more shots in her arsenal than Venus as well. Dropshot, lobs, short angles, off-speed loopers, and a better slice BH.

Venus only has the edge of Serena in consistent pace of shot and movement.

When you compare the two, Serena should be the favorite everywhere.

bandabou
Jul 7th, 2009, 04:19 AM
Discussing with tennisIlove...is pretty useless. Let Vee keep playing big sis then, as long as Serena is racking up the majors..

RVD
Jul 7th, 2009, 04:31 AM
Honestly Doublefist, there is a mental situation with Venus. Having watched both sisters play their entire careers, Serena is not THAT much better than Venus to have such a huge 6-2 lead in Slam finals. When you think that in every other aspect of their careers they are almost even ... that one stat leads me to think that something else is going on. I could put my opinions in to your post above, but why? You always assume I am a Serena-hating fool and it's pointless. I have never hated Serena. I have never hated anyone in my life. I have no time for hate in my life. I honest just call things as I see it. When it's something negative against Serena (or any player), I become a hater from Serena fans(or that players fan base) on the message boards :haha:It's silly. Really, I just view myself as honest.

As for the post though ... IF Venus' first serve is on, IMO it's the best serve in the game. Consistently though, Serena has the better serve because she controls it better. Venus goes off too often on her serve.

Off the ground, I still say it's a toss up. Serena technically has a better forehand sure. But backhand the edge goes to Venus. Still depends ont he day they play though, really. Serena's forehand was horrible in the semis against Dementieva, for example.

Venus is a better move on grass no doubt. Everything else is neck and neck. Serena is faster, Venus has the longer reach that helps her out a lot. Venus had adapted to the one handed slice more effectively than Serena as well, IMO.

The matches come down to a mental thing. I think the thing that I remember most in their matches steams back to the 2001 US Open. THe first All Williams final. Venus won easily 6-2 6-4. Venus seemingly took control of most points pretty early. Serena made a ton of errors. The result? Venus hugging her sister at the net saying "This doesn't even feel like a win".

What happened next? Venus, IMO, played two of the worst matches in her career against Serena in Miami and then Paris. It seemingly had changed last year after the Wimbledon and US Open. IMO, it went a huge step backwards at Wimbledon this year, where Venus didnt even look like she cared. She's far too content being runner up to Serena. For someonet hat is as good as Venus, that's a shame, because she has the capability to match Serena stroke for stroke, slam for slam, IMO. The fact that it's a 6-2 lead for Serena is shocking.

Just my opinion though.If you are the same "DALLAS" from the www.VenusSerenaFans.com site, then it is a fact that you never liked Serena. And if you are the same "DALLAS" who writes/wrote for a tennis column, then yes, the two Dallas(es) are one in the same who had this intense dislike of Serena. I recall that Dallas refrring to Serena as "trashy" and "classless".
And by the way, I am "Straight-Up" from that same board. :hehehe: So let's not play games here, okay?

Now, as far as Serena not having a more solid game than Vee...?
Hasn't this very topic been bandied about since 1996 (prior to Serena's professional introduction to the tennis world?).
Even back then, Serena's dad Richard posed that Serena would have the better career. :shrug: And to this very day, he has been correct.
That is not to take anything away from Vee. It basically says that Serena will work like a maniac to become a better player than the best out there. And at times, Vee is that best out there. :shrug:

Honestly Dallas, neither Venus nor Serena were playing their best during the Wimbledon Final. However, Serena was playing better from 2-2 in the second until the very end. In the 1st set, you are fresh, and you go with your strengths. Both were clocking serves and service games. Someone is bound to exceed the other in such a closely contested game though. In such a case, we must consider the mental aspect, yes. And that would be Serena's ability to become stronger under these circumstances.
Last year. Serena blinked and I believe she took the match for granted. Didn't she suggest as much in her last interview...that she had learned a lesson from that match; which was to maintain a calm approach and not rush her shots?
Venus is definitely a great player, but Serena has always been the more consistent and hungrier of the two.
I know that Venus supporters hate to hear that, but just look at the past results of their meetings. Just look at this last meeting.

Lastly, Serena can and has felt bad for Venus after defeating her. So let's not make it seem as though Serena is a heartless monster who wants to tear Vee's throat out during a match. They are BOTH competitors on court. And to even suggest that Venus gave the match away to her sister, when Venus could have become the first woman in goodness knows how many years, to win Wimbledon for the 6th time, and also in a back-to-back fashion, would have certainly been monumental.
Now, are you suggesting that Venus did not desire this with all of her heart?
Both ladies are the ultimate competitors, and isn't that what the fans have always demanded of them when they meet?
Let's not cheapen the game with conspiracy theories that tarnish Vee's reputation, and the reputation of the sport itself.
As a dedicated Venus fan, and a tennis fan, I'm sure that you would not want that, right?

RVD
Jul 7th, 2009, 04:52 AM
People that are chewing on sour grapes and doesn't want to give Serena credit for the win. :shrug:

Your post was just :worship::worship::worship:HEY DEE!!
I was going back through this thread and didn't initially see this. :lol:
How are you babe? http://deephousepage.com/smilies/hug.gif

sky20748
Jul 7th, 2009, 06:00 AM
We as fans can bicker and express our opinions until we're blue in the face and dry in the mouth,but the fact remains that it is up to Venus to go out on that court and take it to any and all opponents regardless of who they might be. Yes us Venus fans have our opinions on what took place and we are sad that she lost. And I know that the Serena fans are joyous that she won.This is just how things go. But Serena has learned to become a pit bull on the court and truthfully I dont like it in the sense that yes you go out and destroy your opponent but you also show class and manners on the court. All the screaming in your opponents face and the drama she brings to the court has turned me personally off from her. That is not to knock her achievements because she has achieved so much and will continue to. But she can definately take some etiquette classes from big sister on how to behave on the court. In her interview she laughed and taunted Safina about being number one and Serena is just to dam cocky for her own good. But like an elevator what comes up definately comes down. Everyone is working towards the same goal and there is always a winner and loser but be professional and classy on the court. And yes Venus was not there fully in that final even a blind man could see that but for whatever her reason was if she wants to keep establishing herself as a force then it's time for the mental breakdowns to cease and she needs to step up or step out. Plain and simple.

bandabou
Jul 7th, 2009, 06:58 AM
11 majors and counting...so what etiquette? Only etiquete that matters is WINNING!

jade001
Jul 7th, 2009, 07:13 AM
Of course, Vee wanted to win, it's just the real will wasn't there, it's so strange, but again we will never know, because it's not easy for her to bring her best against her lil sis, and it's sad, There is no real desire to win when they face each other.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 7th, 2009, 07:17 PM
...it's sad, There is no real desire to win when they face each other.

The only thing that's "sad" is this same ol', tired, pathetic, built in excuse that many of you Vee fans use.

It's been pointed out by many on this board that whenever Serena wins it's because Venus let her (in some deep seeded bullshit psychological form or other), and whenever Vee wins it's because she's supposed to win, because she's simply better than Serena. :lol: :rolleyes: Even non-partisan, non Williams fans have exposed this lame built in excuse.

Truth be told, Vee's REAL problem is not Serena. Seems to me, she's had plenty of opportunities to excel without facing Serena and has not come through to the finals. How many times has she flamed out at the AO or RG or even USO and Serena's had nothing to do with it?

Vee hasn't taken advantage of all her opportunities. Serena is just a convenient excuse.

homogenius
Jul 7th, 2009, 07:43 PM
I missed the match and had no time to watch it since then.From the comments I read briefly it seems Venus didn't bring it in the final.Sure it's a bit strange cause she rolled over her last 6 opponents but she was playing Serena and it's clearly not the same than to play Aga for example.Can't tell if Venus is back to her old mode in her rivalry with Serena or if she just had a bad day, but at the end she still reached another Wimbly final and lost only to Serena so it's not that bad.

Not taking into account the Serena's effect, Venus is really an enigma : she fixed her game in the last year (more or less lol)and finally got some big titles on another surface than grass but her results in slams have been even less consistent than before ??!!
She has not won a slam outside Wimbledon for ages now, so at this point I think she has some sort of monkey on her shoulder and is lacking this extra-confidence that Serena always manages to have in slams.A USO title (for example)would change a lot of things in her mind imho.

ikarinokami
Jul 8th, 2009, 01:35 AM
The main problem is in the assumption that two people are essentially one.
The truth is they aren’t.

Yes, they are sisters, but they are so obviously different in so many ways that they are near opposite of one another.

I was watching a segment of the Wimbledon coverage (during the Finals) where one of the male commentators did a quick and rather entertaining comparison, documenting the differences between Venus and Serena. The most interesting part was in personality and temperament.
Venus was the more seemingly “calmer”…”holds”-it-all-in” (introverted) sister; while Serena possessed the more “in-your-face”..."win-at-all-costs" (extroverted) demeanor. And guess what…
Their playing styles overtly demonstrated those distinct difference as well.

Venus hates to lose. But Serena views losing as a near loss of life experience. She will do whatever it takes to avoid that.
Both have even expressed as much in their documentaries. Serena will even steal Vee’s clothes or misdirect her own sister (when they are out shopping) just to buy an outfit out from under Vee. :lol: She just hates to lose anything that much. :lol:

So whether its looking good, or competing on the court, their differences in their approach to a goal is highlighted between these two more than between any two other players. And these are sisters... born of the same loin and seeds.
That's one major point that needs to be made here, IMHO.

The other is more technical (again, IMO).
Serena's techniques simply break down far less than Vee's. :shrug:
I know many will have a different opinion, and that's fine. But I think that at the end of the day (when comapring their results to date), when we match up their individual techniques, Serena's will edge Venus in several categories.
Add to that Serena's "never say die" attitude and mentality, and you have one very scary (in a good way) athlete. :worship:

I think the people who believe that Venus doesn’t care need to really look at Venus’s expressions when she’s “actively” playing her sister. Sure you'll miss out on simply enjoying the match, but at least it'll answer the question as to whether Vee cares or not.
Just watch when Vee is serving, and returning Serena’s own returns and serves. To me Venus looks like she wants to teach kid sister a big sister lesson whenever I watch them play. Even in this last match, Venus was extremely intense.
But again, Serena is just a tough opponent PERIOD! Regardless of the fact that they are sisters.
So what makes people believe that even though they are sisters, that Venus knows her inside out? Or that they do not want to go all out against each other? I’ll never understand this logic.
Venuse WANTED that Rosewater dish yesterday. She would have made history on so many levels had she won.
Really now...Are there truly people out there who do not believe this?

your joking right? she smiled in the tie break after losing the most imporatant point. she hadn't smiled the before that the entire time. The fact everyone, says venus came out flat is all that is needed. venus has not flat at wimby in 2 years. There no way going for the 6th title that she comes out flat against anyonme else. I'm not saying that she threw the match, but a part of her prevents her from going all out against serena. And no, it's not the fact that she lost, it's how she lost, she did not look like someones who wanted to be out there. And I can't imagine that venus coming out in the biggest wimby final for her, a chance to get the 6th, so flat and lifeless. She played like somone who just lost thier dog.

woosey
Jul 8th, 2009, 01:48 AM
i actually think v is like everyone else - she gets a bit intimidated by serena when her sis is playing well. sometimes, she looks uncomfortable with the ferocity that serena shows.

i'm disappointed because i wanted venus to win.

but who knows. it doesn't really make sense for her to lose so badly, especially after playing so well.

harloo
Jul 8th, 2009, 02:34 AM
your joking right? she smiled in the tie break after losing the most imporatant point. she hadn't smiled the before that the entire time. The fact everyone, says venus came out flat is all that is needed. venus has not flat at wimby in 2 years. There no way going for the 6th title that she comes out flat against anyonme else. I'm not saying that she threw the match, but a part of her prevents her from going all out against serena. And no, it's not the fact that she lost, it's how she lost, she did not look like someones who wanted to be out there. And I can't imagine that venus coming out in the biggest wimby final for her, a chance to get the 6th, so flat and lifeless. She played like somone who just lost thier dog.

You can't predict the outcome of how Venus would have played the final if she had another opponent. A few commentators pointed out that despite Venus playing excellent for two weeks she wasn't tested. On the other hand, Serena was tested in the qtrs and the semis. Those two matches prepared her for the Wimbledon final. I also felt that Serena put Venus under so much pressure with her service that Venus serve started breaking down which is the biggest difference between the sisters.

Where was this sisterly compassion when Venus trounced Serena in last years Wimbledon final? Where was it in Doha or at the YEC? She didn't have a problem defeating Serena in those big matches. If you really think about what you're saying it's just another excuse for Venus losing to an opponent who was just better on that day. I have always believed that when the sisters meet the outcome depends on who executes the best. Usually, if Serena comes out playing extremely well her serve is the edge Most of the time it's a mental match which is something Serena thrives on. She is just more steadier during those moments than her big sister. That's not only the case for their match-ups but also for every opponent she encounters.

ikarinokami
Jul 8th, 2009, 02:55 AM
You can't predict the outcome of how Venus would have played the final if she had another opponent. A few commentators pointed out that despite Venus playing excellent for two weeks she wasn't tested. On the other hand, Serena was tested in the qtrs and the semis. Those two matches prepared her for the Wimbledon final. I also felt that Serena put Venus under so much pressure with her service that Venus serve started breaking down which is the biggest difference between the sisters.

Where was this sisterly compassion when Venus trounced Serena in last years Wimbledon final? Where was it in Doha or at the YEC? She didn't have a problem defeating Serena in those big matches. If you really think about what you're saying it's just another excuse for Venus losing to an opponent who was just better on that day. I have always believed that when the sisters meet the outcome depends on who executes the best. Usually, if Serena comes out playing extremely well her serve is the edge Most of the time it's a mental match which is something Serena thrives on. She is just more steadier during those moments than her big sister. That's not only the case for their match-ups but also for every opponent she encounters.

Are you serious? she was tested at all in 2008 either. the problem is not that she lost, but she showed no desire to win. there is a difference. And that she came out flat is insane, she usally comes out too hop making errors then settles down. My theory is that she and everyone knew how badly serena wanted to win this. I have seen venus play hurt, i have play poorly, but at the final she was just listless. I don't think she lost on purpose, but i don't think played with everything in her either. I agree in 2008 she played with fire, but there was zero fire at wimby. How can people think that is normal, or that is not the least bit odd, that venus williams walks out on center court at the wimby with no fire. Did you think at any point in that match that venus was fighting to win it? forget playing well, but playing with the mindset of leaving her heart on that court. It didn't happen, it didn't happen because a part of her knew how much the win the would have meant to her sister. I don't think she planned, medical reseach has proved just how much latent thoughts effect our behavior. I don't think there is any question, that a part of venus wanted serena to win that match. i think that is always the case, and that final, was probally the worst example of her supressing it.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 03:21 AM
Are you serious? she was tested at all in 2008 either. the problem is not that she lost, but she showed no desire to win. there is a difference. And that she came out flat is insane, she usally comes out too hop making errors then settles down. My theory is that she and everyone knew how badly serena wanted to win this. I have seen venus play hurt, i have play poorly, but at the final she was just listless. I don't think she lost on purpose, but i don't think played with everything in her either. I agree in 2008 she played with fire, but there was zero fire at wimby. How can people think that is normal, or that is not the least bit odd, that venus williams walks out on center court at the wimby with no fire. Did you think at any point in that match that venus was fighting to win it? forget playing well, but playing with the mindset of leaving her heart on that court. It didn't happen, it didn't happen because a part of her knew how much the win the would have meant to her sister. I don't think she planned, medical reseach has proved just how much latent thoughts effect our behavior. I don't think there is any question, that a part of venus wanted serena to win that match. i think that is always the case, and that final, was probally the worst example of her supressing it.


so she came out in her favourite tournament final (which incidentally is the biggest in tennis) and didn't want to win because it's serena, yet last year in the same situation she wanted to win against the same opponent???

harloo
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:09 AM
Are you serious? she was tested at all in 2008 either. the problem is not that she lost, but she showed no desire to win. there is a difference. And that she came out flat is insane, she usally comes out too hop making errors then settles down. My theory is that she and everyone knew how badly serena wanted to win this. I have seen venus play hurt, i have play poorly, but at the final she was just listless. I don't think she lost on purpose, but i don't think played with everything in her either. I agree in 2008 she played with fire, but there was zero fire at wimby. How can people think that is normal, or that is not the least bit odd, that venus williams walks out on center court at the wimby with no fire. Did you think at any point in that match that venus was fighting to win it? forget playing well, but playing with the mindset of leaving her heart on that court. It didn't happen, it didn't happen because a part of her knew how much the win the would have meant to her sister. I don't think she planned, medical reseach has proved just how much latent thoughts effect our behavior. I don't think there is any question, that a part of venus wanted serena to win that match. i think that is always the case, and that final, was probally the worst example of her supressing it.

Again, you gloss over the fact that Venus beat Serena on the same court, at the same time, LAST YEAR. Serena wanted the Wimbledon crown last year in the same way she wanted it this year and Venus snatched it from her. Where was the compassion then? When the sisters were younger they had difficulty playing against each other but now when I see them compete they both want blood. Venus hates to lose to Serena, you can see it in her expression and vice versa. The fact that you can't just accept that when Serena controls her nerves and executes her game properly she's a cut above the field speaks volumes about your blind devotion.

I know you don't want to believe that Venus is capable of losing at Wimbledon but Serena had done it two times before the Wimbledon 2009 final. Everyone in the tennis world knew she was very capable of beating Venus in this years final. It's not to say that Venus won't defeat her again because I believe she will but why can't some of you just accept the results as they are?

Last year Serena lost the final and while some fans were upset that she lost composure the better player that day still won. Venus just didn't play well enough to win this years title against a high quality opponent. It had NOTHING to do with Venus caring about Serena winning because if that was the case she would have handed her Wimbledon 2008, Doha, and the YEC.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:50 AM
:lol: These Vee-fans are soo funny. So now the only way Serena can beat Vee is when Vee takes pity of her and let's her baby sis win? Please! Last year she had no problem spanking lil sis at Wimbledon and those last two sets at Doha? Lots of sisterly love going there.

RVD
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:09 AM
your joking right? she smiled in the tie break after losing the most imporatant point. she hadn't smiled the before that the entire time. The fact everyone, says venus came out flat is all that is needed. venus has not flat at wimby in 2 years. There no way going for the 6th title that she comes out flat against anyonme else. I'm not saying that she threw the match, but a part of her prevents her from going all out against serena. And no, it's not the fact that she lost, it's how she lost, she did not look like someones who wanted to be out there. And I can't imagine that venus coming out in the biggest wimby final for her, a chance to get the 6th, so flat and lifeless. She played like somone who just lost thier dog.So you're saying that throughout the 1st set, and up until 2-2 (or 2-3) in the second set, Venus was playing flat and didn't express any desire to win whatsoever? Is this what you're suggesting?

We can't judge Vee's demeanor on a single smile either.
We don't know whether she was smiling because she figured out a part of Ree's game or if she had gas.
We also can't compare Vee's desires from last year's either. It's just not possible because we aren't in her head.
My goodness. How can Vee go from having no problem defeating Serena last year, all the way to feeling sorry for her sister this year, with a rare spot in the history books on the line (not to mention the monetary reward and that prestigious Rosewater trophy)? Do you know just how crazy that sounds?
Venus LOVES winning Wimbledon. She's stated this this many many times.
And she loves it enough to set aside her sisterly love for 2 hours.
She showed the world just that very thing last year in the Finals here.

Why is it so hard to admit that Venus simply got outplayed by Serena?
There is no shame in losing to a player who was on fire, having demonstrated her mental fortitude in a record 2hr 48min Semi-Final match.
Moreover, Vee is human and is prone to her game breaking done at any given moment as well. It happens to all the WTA players.
Flat or not, Venus was NOT going to suddenly be able to handle Serena in "Ace Service Mode". Serena was clocking those aces.
If Serena's serving well, nobody can touch her. And no, not even Venus.

RVD
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:24 AM
:lol: These Vee-fans are soo funny. So now the only way Serena can beat Vee is when Vee takes pity of her and let's her baby sis win? Please! Last year she had no problem spanking lil sis at Wimbledon and those last two sets at Doha? Lots of sisterly love going there.I know! It's weird how Venus fans can't seem to except the fact that lil sister is good enough to play superb tennis on the big stage and win. And let's not discount Vee's taped leg. I noticed a few times where Vee seemed to limp after some intense exchanges. Even her serves were affected later in the match.
It's completely irrational to think that Venus could possibly defeat Serena with that heavily taped & problematic leg (and waning service game), let alone defeat a Serena who served 12 phat Aces to Vee's 2. Also, Serena's winning percentage on 1st serves was a massive 94% (31 of 33), and her winning percentage on her 2nd serves was a huge 71% (15 of 21)! :eek:

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:51 AM
So you're saying that throughout the 1st set, and up until 2-2 (or 2-3) in the second set, Venus was playing flat and didn't express any desire to win whatsoever? Is this what you're suggesting?

We can't judge Vee's demeanor on a single smile either.
We don't know whether she was smiling because she figured out a part of Ree's game or if she had gas.
We also can't compare Vee's desires from last year's either. It's just not possible because we aren't in her head.
My goodness. How can Vee go from having no problem defeating Serena last year, all the way to feeling sorry for her sister this year, with a rare spot in the history books on the line (not to mention the monetary reward and that prestigious Rosewater trophy)? Do you know just how crazy that sounds?
Venus LOVES winning Wimbledon. She's stated this this many many times.
And she loves it enough to set aside her sisterly love for 2 hours.
She showed the world just that very thing last year in the Finals here.

Why is it so hard to admit that Venus simply got outplayed by Serena?
There is no shame in losing to a player who was on fire, having demonstrated her mental fortitude in a record 2hr 48min Semi-Final match.
Moreover, Vee is human and is prone to her game breaking done at any given moment as well. It happens to all the WTA players.
Flat or not, Venus was NOT going to suddenly be able to handle Serena in "Ace Service Mode". Serena was clocking those aces.
If Serena's serving well, nobody can touch her. And no, not even Venus.

Thank you...fanatism is so sad sometimes.

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:09 AM
Why is it so hard to admit that Venus simply got outplayed by Serena?

because she wasnt, Venus was def. allowed to play, but strangly, she didn't play as well as she can, I already said it's like that with WS, there is never the killer instinct btween them, come on, we can expect to have a serious match between the 2 best grass courts players in the world, can we ?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:19 AM
:lol: so again, why can't the peanuts answer the question?? why did she have no problem beating serena last year but suddenly had a problem this year??

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:36 AM
because she wasnt, Venus was def. allowed to play, but strangly, she didn't play as well as she can, I already said it's like that with WS, there is never the killer instinct btween them, come on, we can expect to have a serious match between the 2 best grass courts players in the world, can we ?

you're not answering the question. So why could Vee beat Serena last year without any problems...yet when she loses this year it's big sis love?

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:54 AM
you're not answering the question. So why could Vee beat Serena last year without any problems...yet when she loses this year it's big sis love?

The only thing I know is Venus was nowhere near of what she is capable, she played so well during the whole tournament except in the final, it's so weird, of course I'd give credit to Serena, but not that much.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2009, 08:31 AM
The only thing I know is Venus was nowhere near of what she is capable, she played so well during the whole tournament except in the final, it's so weird, of course I'd give credit to Serena, but not that much.

I really don't want to offend you. I really don't, but you MUST not watch a lot of tennis.

It happens ALL the time.

A player can seem to be blazing through her draw only to get rolled or struggle in the final. Here's why...

Form (or perceived form) is RELATIVE to competition!!

It's that simple.

Venus' draw was not that tough. She was NEVER tested. She never had the benefit of a trial by fire during the fortnight even remotely similar to what Elena put Serena through. With metal, fire burns away bullshit, and so to it is with tennis- if the player is tough enough to stand the heat. Venus did not have that benefit. So while it seemed her form was great, in reality it wasn't as great as it looked on paper.

The difficult thing for Vee or any player is that in order to be prepared for a big test you have to survive one and it can't be too far removed otherwise most players not named Serena will be hard pressed to remember what they've learned.

Perceived form is relative to competition.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 09:43 AM
The only thing I know is Venus was nowhere near of what she is capable, she played so well during the whole tournament except in the final, it's so weird, of course I'd give credit to Serena, but not that much.

Serena was in blazing form too last year..yet couldn't even push Vee to a tiebreak.

Was this because she loved Vee so much too, couldn't play all out against Vee?

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:24 AM
I really don't want to offend you. I really don't, but you MUST not watch a lot of tennis.

It happens ALL the time..

oh come on, we are talking about Vee here, since 2007, Noone really tested her, and it doesn't change the fact she is still winning, last year, her draw wasn't tough either, I just don't get it, there is no way Vee can hit 2 aces in a match, on grass.
And no Serena wasn't in blazing form last year just like this year, because she should have lost against Dementieva.
But like I said, good for Serena, and it'S really sad for Vee because it was the ONLY slam she could win since 2005, I think it's time to move on for her, and maybe she will be more fierce at the Us, or at another Major. Wait and See.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:39 AM
oh come on, we are talking about Vee here, since 2007, Noone really tested her, and it doesn't change the fact she is still winning, last year, her draw wasn't tough either, I just don't get it, there is no way Vee can hit 2 aces in a match, on grass.
And no Serena wasn't in blazing form last year just like this year, because she should have lost against Dementieva.
But like I said, good for Serena, and it'S really sad for Vee because it was the ONLY slam she could win since 2005, I think it's time to move on for her, and maybe she will be more fierce at the Us, or at another Major. Wait and See.

Answer the question.

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:10 AM
Answer the question.

No, Serena did everything she could last year, but This year Venus didn't, we all know it's always Vee who struggles most of time when she faces her sister in a Major.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:36 AM
No, Serena did everything she could last year, but This year Venus didn't, we all know it's always Vee who struggles most of time when she faces her sister in a Major.

Soo..you're saying that Vee is the better player than Serena?! Serena tried last year but came short, because Vee was ready and better.

And this time around only won because Vee came flat, felt pity, etc..?!

OKaayyyyyyyy!

Daniela-Is-Mine
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Shes just not close to as good at her sister

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Soo..you're saying that Vee is the better player than Serena?! Serena tried last year but came short, because Vee was ready and better.

And this time around only won because Vee came flat, felt pity, etc..?!

OKaayyyyyyyy!

I'm sorry but the final was on grass court, where Vee is clearly better than Ree.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 01:15 PM
I'm sorry but the final was on grass court, where Vee is clearly better than Ree.

Sure..like if Serena had beaten Venus at say the u.s. Open or oz open, your reaction would've been any different.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 01:41 PM
Sure..like if Serena had beaten Venus at say the u.s. Open or oz open, your reaction would've been any different.

:rolls: i love how the question is danced around..and they conveniently forget that all 3 of serena'ss titles came defeating who in the final???

how can she forget to be a big sister last year wimbledon final, doha yec when all ya'll were relishing the bagel, dubai, but now suddenly she's miraculously remembered???

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 02:12 PM
:rolls: i love how the question is danced around..and they conveniently forget that all 3 of serena'ss titles came defeating who in the final???

how can she forget to be a big sister last year wimbledon final, doha yec when all ya'll were relishing the bagel, dubai, but now suddenly she's miraculously remembered???

:lol: The irony..

Thkmra
Jul 8th, 2009, 03:10 PM
I really don't want to offend you. I really don't, but you MUST not watch a lot of tennis.

It happens ALL the time.

A player can seem to be blazing through her draw only to get rolled or struggle in the final. Here's why...

Form (or perceived form) is RELATIVE to competition!!

It's that simple.

Venus' draw was not that tough. She was NEVER tested. She never had the benefit of a trial by fire during the fortnight even remotely similar to what Elena put Serena through. With metal, fire burns away bullshit, and so to it is with tennis- if the player is tough enough to stand the heat. Venus did not have that benefit. So while it seemed her form was great, in reality it wasn't as great as it looked on paper.

The difficult thing for Vee or any player is that in order to be prepared for a big test you have to survive one and it can't be too far removed otherwise most players not named Serena will be hard pressed to remember what they've learned.

Perceived form is relative to competition.

:bs: Um....is this Venus Williams we're speaking of, or some rookie who's in over her head!

'Relative to the level of competition', my ass!!!:tape: This is championship stuff here people..play at the highest level, noneofwhich is unfamiliar to Venus, who after-all is a 5 time, 2 time defending champion!!! Venus isn't new to this. You under-rate Venus so much:o

REGARDLESS Of draw, Champions not players rise to the occassion of the moment. Notwithstanding the ease of the draw, Venus was not in unchartered territory, she's played this woman 20 times, knows her game beeter than her own, hell they practiced 20 miniutes before they played. Her relatively tempered, and mild performance simply underscored the lack of passion she had during the match. very strange it was....:confused: Point, blank period she was just was very underwhelming and perceivavly had no fight, nor the desire to do so..Sad!!:rolleyes:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:21 PM
so she had passion to beat serena last year..but not this year? did serena wear a mask last year, cover herself in a different scent...what???

you all under rate serena...serena has 3 titles all againt her sister in the finals, and apart from 06 where she did not play, and 07 with her one leg and hand, her one and only bad year since 2000 was 2005...you act as though the woman is invincible on grass when she is 1-3 against serena in finals there, and 2-3 to serena overall at wimbledon...

you all act as though she played this piss poor final...how often does she go a set against serena without being broken, let alone facing a bp??? and STILL lost the set! but i forgot that if serena wins its because her sister allowed her to win, but if she doesn't it's because she lost to the better player....:o

and then if "haters" talk about match fixing you'll get all defensive, yet all you are doing is accusing them of the same thing

BlameSerena
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:24 PM
so she had passion to beat serena last year..but not this year? did serena wear a mask last year, cover herself in a different scent...what???

you all under rate serena...serena has 3 titles all againt her sister in the finals, and apart from 06 where she did not play, and 07 with her one leg and hand, her one and only bad year since 2000 was 2005...you act as though the woman is invincible on grass when she is 1-3 against serena in finals there, and 2-3 to serena overall at wimbledon...

you all act as though she played this piss poor final...how often does she go a set against serena without being broken, let alone facing a bp??? and STILL lost the set! but i forgot that if serena wins its because her sister allowed her to win, but if she doesn't it's because she lost to the better player....:o

and then if "haters" talk about match fixing you'll get all defensive, yet all you are doing is accusing them of the same thing

That is all. :worship::worship:

Donny
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:30 PM
:bs: Um....is this Venus Williams we're speaking of, or some rookie who's in over her head!

'Relative to the level of competition', my ass!!!:tape: This is championship stuff here people..play at the highest level, noneofwhich is unfamiliar to Venus, who after-all is a 5 time, 2 time defending champion!!! Venus isn't new to this. You under-rate Venus so much:o

REGARDLESS Of draw, Champions not players rise to the occassion of the moment. Notwithstanding the ease of the draw, Venus was not in unchartered territory, she's played this woman 20 times, knows her game beeter than her own, hell they practiced 20 miniutes before they played. Her relatively tempered, and mild performance simply underscored the lack of passion she had during the match. very strange it was....:confused: Point, blank period she was just was very underwhelming and perceivavly had no fight, nor the desire to do so..Sad!!:rolleyes:

She took Serena to a tiebreak in the first set. How does a player fight another player to a draw for 95% of a set display no fight? This is absurd.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:39 PM
:bs: Um....is this Venus Williams we're speaking of, or some rookie who's in over her head!

'Relative to the level of competition', my ass!!!:tape: This is championship stuff here people..play at the highest level, noneofwhich is unfamiliar to Venus, who after-all is a 5 time, 2 time defending champion!!! Venus isn't new to this. You under-rate Venus so much:o

REGARDLESS Of draw, Champions not players rise to the occassion of the moment. Notwithstanding the ease of the draw, Venus was not in unchartered territory, she's played this woman 20 times, knows her game beeter than her own, hell they practiced 20 miniutes before they played. Her relatively tempered, and mild performance simply underscored the lack of passion she had during the match. very strange it was....:confused: Point, blank period she was just was very underwhelming and perceivavly had no fight, nor the desire to do so..Sad!!:rolleyes:
I'll see your :bs: and raise you :bs: :bs:

You vee fans are so utterly in denial it's becoming very sad and pathetic.

Venus isn't above having a soft draw and needing a test. :lol: EVERY player goes through that, including Serena. The problem is Vee's test came against Serena. Serena had great prep for her match against Vee in the form of Elena.

I'm really surprised (and somewhat amused) at how hard it is for you all to see it. It seems to happen quite often.

I think what you all might want to do is have a little more faith in Vee's ability to win slams OUTSIDE of sw19. Then, perhaps, you can relax and stop pulling the ol' convenient "big sis' argument" out of your collective asses so often. :lol:
because now, given last years results, simply become an argument of convenience.

volta
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:40 PM
this still going? *barf*

Olórin
Jul 8th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Very sad.

Diesel
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:03 PM
and then if "haters" talk about match fixing you'll get all defensive, yet all you are doing is accusing them of the same thing

No. Venus is being accused of being unprofessional and being the match fixer. Not Serena. Serena is being accused of being a heartless bitch who somehow isn't good enough to beat a healthy, mentally sane or passionate Venus at Wimbledon let alone any other slam.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:42 PM
If you are the same "DALLAS" from the www.VenusSerenaFans.com site, then it is a fact that you never liked Serena. And if you are the same "DALLAS" who writes/wrote for a tennis column, then yes, the two Dallas(es) are one in the same who had this intense dislike of Serena. I recall that Dallas refrring to Serena as "trashy" and "classless".
And by the way, I am "Straight-Up" from that same board. :hehehe: So let's not play games here, okay?

Now, as far as Serena not having a more solid game than Vee...?
Hasn't this very topic been bandied about since 1996 (prior to Serena's professional introduction to the tennis world?).
Even back then, Serena's dad Richard posed that Serena would have the better career. :shrug: And to this very day, he has been correct.
That is not to take anything away from Vee. It basically says that Serena will work like a maniac to become a better player than the best out there. And at times, Vee is that best out there. :shrug:

Honestly Dallas, neither Venus nor Serena were playing their best during the Wimbledon Final. However, Serena was playing better from 2-2 in the second until the very end. In the 1st set, you are fresh, and you go with your strengths. Both were clocking serves and service games. Someone is bound to exceed the other in such a closely contested game though. In such a case, we must consider the mental aspect, yes. And that would be Serena's ability to become stronger under these circumstances.
Last year. Serena blinked and I believe she took the match for granted. Didn't she suggest as much in her last interview...that she had learned a lesson from that match; which was to maintain a calm approach and not rush her shots?
Venus is definitely a great player, but Serena has always been the more consistent and hungrier of the two.
I know that Venus supporters hate to hear that, but just look at the past results of their meetings. Just look at this last meeting.

Lastly, Serena can and has felt bad for Venus after defeating her. So let's not make it seem as though Serena is a heartless monster who wants to tear Vee's throat out during a match. They are BOTH competitors on court. And to even suggest that Venus gave the match away to her sister, when Venus could have become the first woman in goodness knows how many years, to win Wimbledon for the 6th time, and also in a back-to-back fashion, would have certainly been monumental.
Now, are you suggesting that Venus did not desire this with all of her heart?
Both ladies are the ultimate competitors, and isn't that what the fans have always demanded of them when they meet?
Let's not cheapen the game with conspiracy theories that tarnish Vee's reputation, and the reputation of the sport itself.
As a dedicated Venus fan, and a tennis fan, I'm sure that you would not want that, right?

:worship::worship::worship:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:47 PM
We as fans can bicker and express our opinions until we're blue in the face and dry in the mouth,but the fact remains that it is up to Venus to go out on that court and take it to any and all opponents regardless of who they might be. Yes us Venus fans have our opinions on what took place and we are sad that she lost. And I know that the Serena fans are joyous that she won.This is just how things go. But Serena has learned to become a pit bull on the court and truthfully I dont like it in the sense that yes you go out and destroy your opponent but you also show class and manners on the court. All the screaming in your opponents face and the drama she brings to the court has turned me personally off from her. That is not to knock her achievements because she has achieved so much and will continue to. But she can definately take some etiquette classes from big sister on how to behave on the court. In her interview she laughed and taunted Safina about being number one and Serena is just to dam cocky for her own good. But like an elevator what comes up definately comes down. Everyone is working towards the same goal and there is always a winner and loser but be professional and classy on the court. And yes Venus was not there fully in that final even a blind man could see that but for whatever her reason was if she wants to keep establishing herself as a force then it's time for the mental breakdowns to cease and she needs to step up or step out. Plain and simple.

This whole post is an ad hominem attack on Serena and really Venus (tarnishing her competitive drive and talent). It has nothing whatsoever to do with tennis or what happened on Center Court July 4. So, whatever. :rolleyes: More sour grapes. Please get over it. I'm a WS fan and I can see the differences between Venus and Serena objectively on the tennis court and off. I hope that Venus comes through at the US Open and takes another title, but if both are hungry and in form, it's going to be hard for Vee to once again overcome her little sis, because frankly Serena is a better tennis player overall than Vee. Get this in your head.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:47 PM
Of course, Vee wanted to win, it's just the real will wasn't there, it's so strange, but again we will never know, because it's not easy for her to bring her best against her lil sis, and it's sad, There is no real desire to win when they face each other.

:lol: This is such :bs: :rolleyes: You're all mad and angry at Vee and using any excuse for this loss. You don't know what you're saying. You're actually tarnishing her reputation as a competitive tennis player. It's really no different than saying that the matches are fixed.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:51 PM
You can't predict the outcome of how Venus would have played the final if she had another opponent. A few commentators pointed out that despite Venus playing excellent for two weeks she wasn't tested. On the other hand, Serena was tested in the qtrs and the semis. Those two matches prepared her for the Wimbledon final. I also felt that Serena put Venus under so much pressure with her service that Venus serve started breaking down which is the biggest difference between the sisters.

Where was this sisterly compassion when Venus trounced Serena in last years Wimbledon final? Where was it in Doha or at the YEC? She didn't have a problem defeating Serena in those big matches. If you really think about what you're saying it's just another excuse for Venus losing to an opponent who was just better on that day. I have always believed that when the sisters meet the outcome depends on who executes the best. Usually, if Serena comes out playing extremely well her serve is the edge Most of the time it's a mental match which is something Serena thrives on. She is just more steadier during those moments than her big sister. That's not only the case for their match-ups but also for every opponent she encounters.

Excellent analysis. I totally agree. :worship::worship::worship: I really don't think some people even know what they are saying sometimes.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Seriously, this thread is ridiculous!

Thkmra
Jul 8th, 2009, 06:58 PM
I'll see your :bs: and raise you :bs: :bs:

You vee fans are so utterly in denial it's becoming very sad and pathetic.

Venus isn't above having a soft draw and needing a test. :lol: EVERY player goes through that, including Serena. The problem is Vee's test came against Serena. Serena had great prep for her match against Vee in the form of Elena.

I'm really surprised (and somewhat amused) at how hard it is for you all to see it. It seems to happen quite often.

I think what you all might want to do is have a little more faith in Vee's ability to win slams OUTSIDE of sw19. Then, perhaps, you can relax and stop pulling the ol' convenient "big sis' argument" out of your collective asses so often. :lol:
because now, given last years results, simply become an argument of convenience.
:lol:Please!!:rolleyes: This isn't the ramblings of an Over-zealous angry Vee fan, rather an observation of her temperment during the match. What undercuts the 'Sisterly Love' argument is just Vee's complacent, satisfied attitude...tamd really the main diffrence in both sisters.

Vebus has already had a career some dream off. Though some may say she's underachedived, ever slightly that may be, she still is an incredible champion, and she knows it!!: Hence the lack of motivation during the match, while Serena on the other hand is all:armed:
So don't give me this arguemnt about lack of preparation, or a real test, Venus was not unprepared..Win a 6th Wimbledon, or get to another final, and lose to only my beloved sister...hmm? Not that much of a diffrence. All icing on the cake for her:drool:Tell me I'm wrong!

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Are you serious? she was tested at all in 2008 either. the problem is not that she lost, but she showed no desire to win. there is a difference. And that she came out flat is insane, she usally comes out too hop making errors then settles down. My theory is that she and everyone knew how badly serena wanted to win this. I have seen venus play hurt, i have play poorly, but at the final she was just listless. I don't think she lost on purpose, but i don't think played with everything in her either. I agree in 2008 she played with fire, but there was zero fire at wimby. How can people think that is normal, or that is not the least bit odd, that venus williams walks out on center court at the wimby with no fire. Did you think at any point in that match that venus was fighting to win it? forget playing well, but playing with the mindset of leaving her heart on that court. It didn't happen, it didn't happen because a part of her knew how much the win the would have meant to her sister. I don't think she planned, medical reseach has proved just how much latent thoughts effect our behavior. I don't think there is any question, that a part of venus wanted serena to win that match. i think that is always the case, and that final, was probally the worst example of her supressing it.

Are you a psychologist? Because seriously, your theory is so full of holes, it's pathetic. Do I think that at any point in that match Venus was fighting? YES!! Did you miss the first set where it went to a tie breaker? Serena's serves and returns were overwhelming and kept Vee pinned to the baseline. She couldn't play her game and started going for too much on her serve and in her groundstrokes. Yes, psychology played a part, but it had nothing to do with Serena being her little sister, but with frustration and overcompensating for not being able to play her own game.

As has been said, Venus was NOT TESTED in the matches leading up to Serena. Serena is a force to be reckoned with. None of the players Venus played leading to the final was of the caliber of Serena in match play in general and slam final match play (mentally). Serena faced a very tough three setter against an excellent grass courter in the name of Elena in the semi, who is on par if not better than Venus off the ground and now in her serves. Please try to look at the match more objectively.

Go back and watch the match now that your nerves and emotions are in check. Analyze it and you will see that Venus did everything she could against a determined and tough opponent who just happened to be her sister, the No. 2 player in the world and holder of two of the last three GS titles.

volta
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Seriously, this thread is ridiculous!

ita

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:13 PM
The only thing I know is Venus was nowhere near of what she is capable, she played so well during the whole tournament except in the final, it's so weird, of course I'd give credit to Serena, but not that much.

Who did she face in the whole tournament versus who did she face in the final? :confused: You're basically comparing Serena (who's second best surface is grass, holding two of the last three GS titles and ranked No. 2) to six rounds of mediocre WTA players (with no GS titles and lesser ranked)?? It's just ludicrous.

And, the burning question still remains, why did she beat Serena last year? This year was much more important to Venus to win than it was last year. :confused:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:21 PM
No. Venus is being accused of being unprofessional and being the match fixer. Not Serena. Serena is being accused of being a heartless bitch who somehow isn't good enough to beat a healthy, mentally sane or passionate Venus at Wimbledon let alone any other slam.

:lol: sorry my mistake

Thkmra
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:22 PM
Are you a psychologist? Because seriously, your theory is so full of holes, it's pathetic. Do I think that at any point in that match Venus was fighting? YES!! Did you miss the first set where it went to a tie breaker? Serena's serves and returns were overwhelming and kept Vee pinned to the baseline. She couldn't play her game and started going for too much on her serve and in her groundstrokes. Yes, psychology played a part, but it had nothing to do with Serena being her little sister, but with frustration and overcompensating for not being able to play her own game.

As has been said, Venus was NOT TESTED in the matches leading up to Serena. Serena is a force to be reckoned with. None of the players Venus played leading to the final was on the calibur of Serena in match play in general and slam final match play (mentally). Serena faced a very tough three setter against an excellent grass courter in the name of Elena in the semi, who is on par if not better than Venus off the ground and now in her serves. Please try to look at the match more objectively.

Go back and watch the match now that your nerves and emotions are in check. Analyze it and you will see that Venus did everything she could against a determined and tough opponent who just happened to be her sister, the No. 2 player in the world and holder of two of the last three GS titles.

A determined, and tough opponent:lol::lol: Unbelievable!!!

darrinbaker00
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:23 PM
Go back and watch the match now that your nerves and emotions are in check. Analyze it and you will see that Venus did everything she could against a determined and tough opponent who just happened to be her sister, the No. 2 player in the world and holder of two of the last three GS titles.
Actually, De, I would love to see the match that a lot of people in this thread are talking about. It sounds fascinating.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:23 PM
oh come on, we are talking about Vee here, since 2007, Noone really tested her, and it doesn't change the fact she is still winning, last year, her draw wasn't tough either, I just don't get it, there is no way Vee can hit 2 aces in a match, on grass.
And no Serena wasn't in blazing form last year just like this year, because she should have lost against Dementieva.
But like I said, good for Serena, and it'S really sad for Vee because it was the ONLY slam she could win since 2005, I think it's time to move on for her, and maybe she will be more fierce at the Us, or at another Major. Wait and See.

Serena didn't drop a set until she met Elena, so she was also in blazing form this year (from the strike of the first ball of the tournament) only allowing her opponents an average of 4 games a match before meeting Elena in the semis. And the fact remains that she didn't lose to Elena because she simply played the bigger points better than Elena in the end. It was a very good clean match, with both serving and returning well. Both players were playing well off the ground. The only difference was that Serena upped her level when it counted, saved match points and out served Elena to win it.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:25 PM
I'm sorry but the final was on grass court, where Vee is clearly better than Ree.

Really??? Last time I checked, the count was 3-1 in Serena's favor at Wimbledon finals.

V's a star
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:27 PM
I'll see your :bs: and raise you :bs: :bs:

You vee fans are so utterly in denial it's becoming very sad and pathetic.

Venus isn't above having a soft draw and needing a test. :lol: EVERY player goes through that, including Serena. The problem is Vee's test came against Serena. Serena had great prep for her match against Vee in the form of Elena.

I'm really surprised (and somewhat amused) at how hard it is for you all to see it. It seems to happen quite often.

I think what you all might want to do is have a little more faith in Vee's ability to win slams OUTSIDE of sw19. Then, perhaps, you can relax and stop pulling the ol' convenient "big sis' argument" out of your collective asses so often. :lol:
because now, given last years results, simply become an argument of convenience.

I think ur very pathetic and sad. I hate posters who talk to one person then use that to call an entire fan base sad and pathetic and watever else they can say to discredit the entire base. GET OFF THE HIGH HORSE who r u??

Helen Lawson
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but Venus seemed a little flat mentally and physically the whole match. It happens, I got the same sense about Steffi in the WB final of '99. Sometimes you show up flat in a slam final, it happens to the best of them. When Serena creamed her in the tiebreak, I think she sort of gave up, realized it wasn't her day and that wasn't going to change. I don't think Venus feels sorry for Serena, and certainly wouldn't in a Wimbledon final. I suspect Venus may not have put 100% into the French final they played because she was at or near the top, Serena needed that win badly, and frankly, I'm not sure Venus cares that much about the French. But a Wimbledon final's a different story.

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Serena didn't drop a set until she met Elena, so she was also in blazing form this year (from the strike of the first ball of the tournament) only allowing her opponents an average of 4 games a match before meeting Elena in the semis. And the fact remains that she didn't lose to Elena because she simply played the bigger points better than Elena in the end. It was a very good clean match, with both serving and returning well. Both players were playing well off the ground. The only difference was that Serena upped her level when it counted, saved match points and out served Elena to win it.

Dont. Serena didn't play well against Dementieva, that's so funny because when Serena said her FH was at Hawai, there isn't any Serena fan who said the opposite, and now suddenly Serena was in blazing form, spare me your BS.

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Really??? Last time I checked, the count was 3-1 in Serena's favor at Wimbledon finals.

My point exactly! Venus is the better player on grass courts but strangly Serena lead because most of time Venus seems to struggle against her, since when Serena is the better player on grass courts:rolleyes:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:46 PM
serena was in blazing form SAVE for 1 match...the elena match...the last time she was that aggressive from the beginning she went on to win the tournament...guess where?? US Open...guess who she beat there as well...her sister...

but i guess you will tell me now that she cared more about the us open QF than she did the wimbledon final since at least there it was 2 tbs she lost :lol:

serena's serve was on the whole tournament, fh was clicking, bh was clicking, movement was clicking...footwork has always been suspect but she gets away with it (even in her peakrena period) because she's just so talented....the only match where her shots weren't clicking (bar the serve) was the SF...

her sister otoh can't out serve serena, and when serena's serve is clicking her whole ground game picks up cause she's not afraid to try to break cause she knows she can step up and pick off a few aces and hold...serena learned her mistake from last year and didn't crumble at the first bit of pressure on her serve at 4-3

but again...none of you can answer the burning question: how was she able to stop being a big sister last year in the final and at doha, this year in dubai, but this year it's time to be big sis again?? and how is the fact that it's grass supposed to mean the adv. is for her, when the finals h-2-h with serena is 1-3, and the overall h-2-h is 2-3??

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 07:50 PM
My point exactly! Venus is the better player on grass courts but strangly Serena lead because most of time Venus seems to struggle against her, since when Serena is the better player on grass courts:rolleyes:

hypothetical situation...if she beats serena at the us open, does it mean she has forgotten about being big sis??? and does that mean that she cares more about the us open enough to fight than she does wimbledon (her self proclaimed favourite)?

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 08:02 PM
hypothetical situation...if she beats serena at the us open, does it mean she has forgotten about being big sis??? and does that mean that she cares more about the us open enough to fight than she does wimbledon (her self proclaimed favourite)?

I never said Venus let Serena win in any of her matches, it's just there is a lack of STh, sth I can clearly see when Vee faces any other top player, especially on grass courts, but we will never know the issue, the only thing I know is Venus seems to be the one who is more affected when they face each other.;)

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 8th, 2009, 08:07 PM
yes that's why the h-2-h is 11-10 :lol: speaks to bein affected a whole lot

jade001
Jul 8th, 2009, 08:25 PM
yes that's why the h-2-h is 11-10 :lol: speaks to bein affected a whole lot

doesn't matter, we will only remember that Serena won 6 Majors( 5 in 1 year) over her sister, and 3 on Venus best surface, Venus only 2.

bandabou
Jul 8th, 2009, 09:09 PM
So Vee's a fool then..by letting her sis win all those major finals, while she has NO problem spanking Serena at Doha and Dubai. What kind of logic is that?

Lulu.
Jul 8th, 2009, 09:18 PM
So Vee's a fool then..by letting her sis win all those major finals, while she has NO problem spanking Serena at Doha and Dubai. What kind of logic is that?

:lol:

Olórin
Jul 8th, 2009, 09:21 PM
I think ur very pathetic and sad. I hate posters who talk to one person then use that to call an entire fan base sad and pathetic and watever else they can say to discredit the entire base. GET OFF THE HIGH HORSE who r u??

He's the person owning all the desperate and pathetic Veelievers who are still stalking this thread like it's the Venus Rosewater Dish.

Stamp Paid
Jul 8th, 2009, 09:29 PM
So Vee's a fool then..by letting her sis win all those major finals, while she has NO problem spanking Serena at Doha and Dubai. What kind of logic is that?:kiss:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:08 PM
:lol:Please!!:rolleyes: This isn't the ramblings of an Over-zealous angry Vee fan, rather an observation of her temperment during the match. What undercuts the 'Sisterly Love' argument is just Vee's complacent, satisfied attitude...tamd really the main diffrence in both sisters.

Vebus has already had a career some dream off. Though some may say she's underachedived, ever slightly that may be, she still is an incredible champion, and she knows it!!: Hence the lack of motivation during the match, while Serena on the other hand is all:armed:
So don't give me this arguemnt about lack of preparation, or a real test, Venus was not unprepared..Win a 6th Wimbledon, or get to another final, and lose to only my beloved sister...hmm? Not that much of a diffrence. All icing on the cake for her:drool:Tell me I'm wrong!

First, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in this thread said Vee was unprepared going into this tournament or the match against Serena. She was just untested matchwise, i.e. she did not come up against a player of Serena's caliber until Serena!!! Untested and unprepared are two different things.

And Vee choosing to let Serena win because she's her little sister versus winning her 6th Wimbledon title (three in a row) is not only WRONG!!!, but complete :bs:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:15 PM
Actually, De, I would love to see the match that a lot of people in this thread are talking about. It sounds fascinating.

Me too. :lol:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:15 PM
A determined, and tough opponent:lol::lol: Unbelievable!!!

And you find what funny? :confused: Are you implying that Serena is not a determined and tough opponent for Vee? That is what is unbelievable.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:28 PM
Dont. Serena didn't play well against Dementieva, that's so funny because when Serena said her FH was at Hawai, there isn't any Serena fan who said the opposite, and now suddenly Serena was in blazing form, spare me your BS.

:haha: Serena is never satisfied with her performance. Her forehand may not have been what she wanted it to be, but it got the job done.

I'm not going to BS you, I'll let the stats do the talking. They will tell you that Serena won because she had 20 aces to Elena's 3, 5 DF's compared to Elena's 8, 45 winners compared to Elena's 27, 28 UFE's compared to Elena's 26. She won 56 of 70 points off her first serve equaling 80 %, compared to Elena winning 48 of 72 = 67 %. Serena' break point conversion was 5 of 12 (42%) compared to Elena's 3 of 10 (30%).

With these stats staring you in the face, are you still going to say that Serena was not in blazing form??? :confused: How was Serena's performance against Elena as poor as you make it out to be with those stats to contradict you? Explain that.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:30 PM
My point exactly! Venus is the better player on grass courts but strangly Serena lead because most of time Venus seems to struggle against her, since when Serena is the better player on grass courts:rolleyes:

:weirdo: Do you know anything about tennis or are you just talking out of your ass? Seriously, how long have you been following the game?

V's a star
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:33 PM
He's the person owning all the desperate and pathetic Veelievers who are still stalking this thread like it's the Venus Rosewater Dish.
Was i talking to u???

I only see one Vee fan the last 3 pages...... ur ugly avatar face is in here more then anyone else i see

damm most serena fans in here are ganging up like a flock of crows lookin for a gang bang on one Venus fan whos making them type page after page

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:33 PM
So Vee's a fool then..by letting her sis win all those major finals, while she has NO problem spanking Serena at Doha and Dubai. What kind of logic is that?

That guy doesn't know anything about tennis. There's no point in wasting anymore time on him. :shrug:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:37 PM
Was i talking to u???

I only see one Vee fan the last 3 pages...... ur ugly avatar face is in here more then anyone else i see

damm most serena fans in here are ganging up like a flock of crows lookin for a gang bang on one Venus fan whos making them type page after page

V, it's not just Serena fans arguing with this person. WS fans are as well, because what he and a couple others are arguing is ludicrous. Do you agree with it as well? :confused:

darrinbaker00
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:47 PM
Venus lost because the sun was in her eyes on both sides of the net. Next topic, please.

V's a star
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:51 PM
V, it's not just Serena fans arguing with this person. WS fans are as well, because what he and a couple others are arguing is ludicrous. Do you agree with it as well? :confused:

i have no idea wat they wrote im to lazy to read it all. Maybe i wud agree maybe i wouldnt.
Wat did i think of the final?? Umm obviously heartbroken. Serena def played well. But i rely feel like Vee didnt bring herself on court, jus seemed flat didnt have much desire, will or fight once she got down, Whether thats beacuse of the knee or lack of tough matches who knows. Ill i do no is that it wasnt my normal Vee who fights to the death on Centre court, not missing 8 1st serves in a row and double faulting on break point. Serena took advantage played great didnt choke and shes the Champ. As for Venus she played 3 times better last year and im sure/hope shes as disappointed as i am :rolleyes:

Donny
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:55 PM
Me too. :lol:

Me three. BTW, love the avatar.

VishaalMaria
Jul 8th, 2009, 10:59 PM
i have no idea wat they wrote im to lazy to read it all. Maybe i wud agree maybe i wouldnt.
Wat did i think of the final?? Umm obviously heartbroken. Serena def played well. But i rely feel like Vee didnt bring herself on court, jus seemed flat didnt have much desire, will or fight once she got down, Whether thats beacuse of the knee or lack of tough matches who knows. Ill i do no is that it wasnt my normal Vee who fights to the death on Centre court, not missing 8 1st serves in a row and double faulting on break point. Serena took advantage played great didnt choke and shes the Champ. As for Venus she played 3 times better last year and im sure/hope shes as disappointed as i am :rolleyes:

I have to agree with this totally.

I'm glad someone states it as it is.

RVD
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM
I really don't want to offend you. I really don't, but you MUST not watch a lot of tennis.

It happens ALL the time.

A player can seem to be blazing through her draw only to get rolled or struggle in the final. Here's why...

Form (or perceived form) is RELATIVE to competition!!

It's that simple.

Venus' draw was not that tough. She was NEVER tested. She never had the benefit of a trial by fire during the fortnight even remotely similar to what Elena put Serena through. With metal, fire burns away bullshit, and so to it is with tennis- if the player is tough enough to stand the heat. Venus did not have that benefit. So while it seemed her form was great, in reality it wasn't as great as it looked on paper.

The difficult thing for Vee or any player is that in order to be prepared for a big test you have to survive one and it can't be too far removed otherwise most players not named Serena will be hard pressed to remember what they've learned.

Perceived form is relative to competition.:worship: :worship: Great analogy! And an even better description of what happened as well.

RVD
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:19 PM
:lol: The irony..I actually feel pity for some of the posters who think this about Venus.
The sheer delusion of it all is astounding. And this is not to put anyone down. It’s just that it’s so sad to witness this from tournament to tournament of Vee’s fans. :sad:

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:25 PM
Me three. BTW, love the avatar.

:) Thank you.

darrinbaker00
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:27 PM
What a lot of people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that until 2-3 in the second set, Venus held serve just as easily as Serena did; she hadn't faced a break point, and she was only pushed to deuce once. She played one loose game and got broken, just like every other player who has ever played the game at any level. True, Serena broke her again at 2-5 to close out the match, but she needed FOUR championship points to do it. That is not, repeat, NOT a lack of desire, will or fight; that is losing to a better player, just like Serena herself did last year. The mere notion that Venus lacked the will to win Saturday, or subconsciously let her little sister win, is an insult not only to Venus Williams, but to the game of tennis itself.

VishaalMaria
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:32 PM
I actually feel pity for some of the posters who think this about Venus.
The sheer delusion of it all is astounding. And this is not to put anyone down. It’s just that it’s so sad to witness this from tournament to tournament of Vee’s fans. :sad:

You're feeling sympathy for Venus fans who supposedly feel it's down to Venus if she wants to win a tournament or not i.e. it's down to her form and no other player matters. But is that not something Serena states with regards to herself?

Now that's irony and quite embarrassing from you, a Serena fan.

Denise4925
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:32 PM
What a lot of people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that until 2-3 in the second set, Venus held serve just as easily as Serena did; she hadn't faced a break point, and she was only pushed to deuce once. She played one loose game and got broken, just like every other player who has ever played the game at any level. True, Serena broke her again at 2-5 to close out the match, but she needed FOUR championship points to do it. That is not, repeat, NOT a lack of desire, will or fight; that is losing to a better player, just like Serena herself did last year. The mere notion that Venus lacked the will to win Saturday, or subconsciously let her little sister win, is an insult not only to Venus Williams, but to the game of tennis itself.

Excellent and by far the best post in the thread. :worship::worship::worship:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:39 PM
I think ur very pathetic and sad. I hate posters who talk to one person then use that to call an entire fan base sad and pathetic and watever else they can say to discredit the entire base. GET OFF THE HIGH HORSE who r u??

Sorry you hate me. I don't hate you :hug:


Okay, hope that's better.

Now, more to the point and for clarification sake. I have NEVER said "All Vee fans...ect, etc." I did, however, say "you Vee fan's...blah, blah, blah." Now most people would have assumed that by "You..." I was talking in context of THIS thread of those who have foolishly (for some, lovingly) dug themselves in the "big sister complex" trench. But, I suppose there are some such as yourself who need clarification, and now you have it.

As for "who I am.."

I'm Doublefist :wavey:



btw, RVD and Serena~Lover! Thanks! :yeah:

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:44 PM
You're feeling sympathy for Venus fans who supposedly feel it's down to Venus if she wants to win a tournament or not i.e. it's down to her form and no other player matters. But is that not something Serena states with regards to herself?

Now that's irony and quite embarrassing from you, a Serena fan.

The difference is, Serena has the results to prove it. :shrug:

In other words, it's not whether you say it or not...

It's whether it's TRUE.

Olórin
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:46 PM
Was i talking to u???

I only see one Vee fan the last 3 pages...... ur ugly avatar face is in here more then anyone else i see

damm most serena fans in here are ganging up like a flock of crows lookin for a gang bang on one Venus fan whos making them type page after page

No, but I'm talking to you. So shut up and listen. We're 'ganging up' as you term it in disbelief that this thread actually is in existence and is even endorsed but some deluded fans.

have no idea wat they wrote im to lazy to read it all. Maybe i wud agree maybe i wouldnt.

This says it all really. Why are you even posting here?

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:55 PM
Hey Dee,

Darrin's post was great, but here's my nomination :lol:
So Vee's a fool then..by letting her sis win all those major finals, while she has NO problem spanking Serena at Doha and Dubai. What kind of logic is that?

Olórin
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:56 PM
"So Vee's a fool then" - just cracks me up :lol:

Yup, she definitely picked the wrong matches to throw.

RVD
Jul 8th, 2009, 11:59 PM
What a lot of people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that until 2-3 in the second set, Venus held serve just as easily as Serena did; she hadn't faced a break point, and she was only pushed to deuce once. She played one loose game and got broken, just like every other player who has ever played the game at any level. True, Serena broke her again at 2-5 to close out the match, but she needed FOUR championship points to do it. That is not, repeat, NOT a lack of desire, will or fight; that is losing to a better player, just like Serena herself did last year. The mere notion that Venus lacked the will to win Saturday, or subconsciously let her little sister win, is an insult not only to Venus Williams, but to the game of tennis itself.Firstly, count me in as the 4th fan who would love to also see that match that Vee fans are talking about. :lol: Because that match must've have been preceded by some serious booze’n. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/all_coholic.gif

Secondly, you captured the gist of what happened in the real match. You know...the one that was televised and that did not take place in someone's head. :tape: And again, as many have stated time and again, it was a very competitive match up until 2-2 (2-3) in the 2nd set. I will say this much though. Venus witnessed a Serena that wasn't going to give up, and it seemed like she made the decision to not jeopardize her already injured (or semi-injured) knee. because I did notice a measurable difference in Vee's game, but also an increase in Serena's. It was as if Serena sent the message that she wasn't going to let up and be taken by surprise two years in a row at the same venue. :worship:

RVD
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:04 AM
You're feeling sympathy for Venus fans who supposedly feel it's down to Venus if she wants to win a tournament or not i.e. it's down to her form and no other player matters. But is that not something Serena states with regards to herself?

Now that's irony and quite embarrassing from you, a Serena fan.What's embarrassing is your lack of support for Venus' game and desire to win.

What's embarrassing is your degree of denial in accepting that Serena was the better player on that day, just as Venus was the better player on this day last year.

What's even more embarrassing is the fact that you are attempting to win a losing argument based solely on a "feeling" and not on fact. :sad:

At some point all of that embarrassing denial becomes “PATHETIC”.
Do you want to try for PATHETIC at this point? :hehehe:

RVD
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:08 AM
Sorry you hate me. I don't hate you :hug:


Okay, hope that's better.

Now, more to the point and for clarification sake. I have NEVER said "All Vee fans...ect, etc." I did, however, say "you Vee fan's...blah, blah, blah." Now most people would have assumed that by "You..." I was talking in context of THIS thread of those who have foolishly (for some, lovingly) dug themselves in the "big sister complex" trench. But, I suppose there are some such as yourself who need clarification, and now you have it.

As for "who I am.."

I'm Doublefist :wavey:



btw, RVD and Serena~Lover! Thanks! :yeah::wavey: My pleasure.
But ya know...they're taking this personally now. You'd think this was a matter of life and death for some fans. :scared:
Logic and reality flies out the window when emotions kick in for some, I suppose.

RVD
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:09 AM
No, but I'm talking to you. So shut up and listen. We're 'ganging up' as you term it in disbelief that this thread actually is in existence and is even endorsed but some deluded fans.



This says it all really. Why are you even posting here?:spit: :haha: :worship:
Serena~lover got RAW. :lol:

LightWarrior
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:19 AM
What a lot of people seem to be conveniently forgetting is that until 2-3 in the second set, Venus held serve just as easily as Serena did; she hadn't faced a break point, and she was only pushed to deuce once. She played one loose game and got broken, just like every other player who has ever played the game at any level. True, Serena broke her again at 2-5 to close out the match, but she needed FOUR championship points to do it. That is not, repeat, NOT a lack of desire, will or fight; that is losing to a better player, just like Serena herself did last year. The mere notion that Venus lacked the will to win Saturday, or subconsciously let her little sister win, is an insult not only to Venus Williams, but to the game of tennis itself.

Who cares about those 4 set points ? It's very common in tennis to save MPs and eventually lose. It's the whole attitude, she was off during most of the final for whatever reason.

DOUBLEFIST
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:31 AM
Who cares about those 4 set points ? It's very common in tennis to save MPs and eventually lose. It's the whole attitude, she was off during most of the final for whatever reason.
She looked pretty good in that 1st set, to me and then had her typical Vee second set vacation. That was the death knell. Against an on fire Serena, vacation is not an option.

V's a star
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:51 AM
No, but I'm talking to you. So shut up and listen. We're 'ganging up' as you term it in disbelief that this thread actually is in existence and is even endorsed but some deluded fans.



This says it all really. Why are you even posting here?

K again why are u talking to me. I had nothing to say to u until now. Why am i posting in here? is that any of ur business again i ask lol WHO ARE U?
I posted in here because i read the last page and saw ppl like u Doublefist:unsure: wat does that mean.. calling all Venus fans Pathetic watever way ud like to word it. And i guess im the only one going to stand up n say sumthin to the pack of Serena fans.

I also have a rite to believe like many others that Venus didnt play her best and without a doubt she didnt. And ive said nothing about the sister mental edge thing being a factor, but i give perfectly legitimate other reasons and its sad and pathetic still....... pleasssse get over urselves, who r u?? Certainly not Serena williams.

And thats all i have to say:lol:

Oh except sry about the name joke doublefist :hug: it was just there in front of me lol i had to

LightWarrior
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:53 AM
She looked pretty good in that 1st set, to me and then had her typical Vee second set vacation. That was the death knell. Against an on fire Serena, vacation is not an option.

The first set was pretty competitive. After that Venus went downhill. To bad for a 5-time Wimbledon champ to decide to go on vacation in a second set Wimbledon final...;)
Had she ever done that before ?

Olórin
Jul 9th, 2009, 12:58 AM
K again why are u talking to me. I had nothing to say to u until now. Why am i posting in here? is that any of ur business again i ask lol WHO ARE U?
I posted in here because i read the last page and saw ppl like u Doublefist:unsure: wat does that mean.. calling all Venus fans Pathetic watever way ud like to word it. And i guess im the only one going to stand up n say sumthin to the pack of Serena fans.

I also have a rite to believe like many others that Venus didnt play her best and without a doubt she didnt. And ive said nothing about the sister mental edge thing being a factor, but i give perfectly legitimate other reasons and its sad and pathetic still....... pleasssse get over urselves, who r u?? Certainly not Serena williams.

And thats all i have to say:lol:

Oh except sry about the name joke doublefist :hug: it was just there in front of me lol i had to

No-one is calling all Venus fans pathetic. Many of the Venus fans are my favourite posters on this board, not the ones like you of course. My problem is that you keep saying things which are incoherent and nonsensical. You're coming in here basically picking fights saying to posters who have made well thought out points 'who are you' get off your high horse', 'defending Venus fans' as you put it, and you yourself admitted that you haven't even read the thread and basically don't know what anyone is talking about. Seriously, what are you on? :shrug:

Rex59
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:07 AM
This is in reply to the title thread. 'Too late. If she hasn't learned going on 14 years on the Tour, she'll never learn.'

Slutiana
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:10 AM
Im not gonna speculate about the reasons why, but it was definitely very strange out there, she was barely able (willing?) to hit the ball past the service line, the whole performance was lethargic and although Im sure that wasn't the case, it made me feel like she didn't want to be there/didn't care or something. She was playing at abotu 20 levels below what she had been playing prior to that match, it was definitely very weird.

mentos
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:16 AM
The only thing that's "sad" is this same ol', tired, pathetic, built in excuse that many of you Vee fans use.

It's been pointed out by many on this board that whenever Serena wins it's because Venus let her (in some deep seeded bullshit psychological form or other), and whenever Vee wins it's because she's supposed to win, because she's simply better than Serena. :lol: :rolleyes: Even non-partisan, non Williams fans have exposed this lame built in excuse.

Truth be told, Vee's REAL problem is not Serena. Seems to me, she's had plenty of opportunities to excel without facing Serena and has not come through to the finals. How many times has she flamed out at the AO or RG or even USO and Serena's had nothing to do with it?

Vee hasn't taken advantage of all her opportunities. Serena is just a convenient excuse.
*out of lurk mode*
AMEN!!!
Same old tired song. Same old tired posters. Same as it ever was. *sigh*

V's a star
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:27 AM
No-one is calling all Venus fans pathetic. Many of the Venus fans are my favourite posters on this board, not the ones like you of course. My problem is that you keep saying things which are incoherent and nonsensical. You're coming in here basically picking fights saying to posters who have made well thought out points 'who are you' get off your high horse', 'defending Venus fans' as you put it, and you yourself admitted that you haven't even read the thread and basically don't know what anyone is talking about. Seriously, what are you on? :shrug:

So if someone was posting "you Serena fans are becoming sad and pathetic" ud having nothing to say?? haha i think not. Only difference is i dont got 3-4 other people backin me up because Venus fans are rely a minority and and dont all pack up together ready to bang on any poster with the "wrong" pov.

I gave wat u call a "well thought out point" and again it was called pathetic, sad. So thats why im still telling u to get off the dam horse


Im not ur favorite poster:crying2: sry serena :rolleyes:

V's a star
Jul 9th, 2009, 01:28 AM
Im not gonna speculate about the reasons why, but it was definitely very strange out there, she was barely able (willing?) to hit the ball past the service line, the whole performance was lethargic and although Im sure that wasn't the case, it made me feel like she didn't want to be there/didn't care or something. She was playing at abotu 20 levels below what she had been playing prior to that match, it was definitely very weird.

prepare to be banged:smoke: :bolt:

RenaSlam.
Jul 9th, 2009, 02:36 AM
Venus/Serena fan wars. :tape:

Shut up, everyone.