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View Full Version : Objectively analysing the Wimbledon Final...


jubliant11
Jul 4th, 2009, 05:51 PM
I've read the standard "fixed" "family decision" as no surprise, however, there are a few key reasons for Serena's victory and some amazing questions to be asked of Venus.

People before the match based on Serena's SF performance predicted a trashing by Venus based on Safina/Venus. What they didn't take in mind is that Safina's movement really allows Venus to do what she wants to do way moreso than Dementieva especially Slamentieva playing at that level.

In truth, if you look at Venus' road to the final. Obviously a top seed is supposed to roll in the early rounds, but she really got opponents in which they really couldn't trouble her either by pace of shot/imposing their game(Radwanska) or had the pace of shot, but just can't match movement athleticism(Safina) she really got to do what she wanted to do in all her matches. Obviously, Serena moves better than any of her other 6 opponents, serves better, and hits harder.

Serena had to play Azarenka and Dementieva the latter being an especially good warm up to play Venus Williams. Dementieva hits a flat ball like Venus and moves almost as well. I fully believe Dementieva returns serve better than Venus as well. Venus presses too much on the first serves and struggles to read it more, but that's another discussion. Based on draw few could argue Serena had a tougher road to the final and played players closer to Venus than Venus played closer to her.

I never bought into the notion Serena was going to get thrashed even beyond that because when has Serena ever just played BADLY in a SF or F. Plus, Venus has never really played a PERFECT match start to finish much less against Serena.

Venus' tactics in the match were more an adaptation to Serena's play. She was not ALLOWED to come in because of Serena's weight and depth. Serena also used the angles of the court well particularly off the famous short angled FH to hit behind Venus.

This is the most important observation. If you notice at the beginning stages of the match Venus' second serve was upper 90s and looked better than I ever seen it. She also was 100% on her first serve winning percentage at one point and was getting them in often. As the match got to the business end her 2nd serve speed went back to its 70-80 range and I don't believe she got a SINGLE first serve in during the tiebreak. She also went for almost two complete service games in the 2nd set without landing a first serve. That's mental anyway you spin it.

Also, they were about even off the ground for a stage. Venus' depth on her FH and BH dropped and a couple of them were barely going over the net. She really got hesistant and tentative and when you play as flat and aggressive as Venus you can't get away with it in patches like Serena does. I mean her length really dropped and Serena stepped up and started to dictate.

This also happened to a lesser extent against Suarez-Navarro. When that R3 match got tight, her second serve went into the sixties at one point and she really pulled up and hesistated.

The mental advantage of Serena against Venus is paramount. It is not because of the sister and blood ties. Venus has never really been as strong as Serena mentally. If you notice the last years results or even this year Venus' losses have been mostly blowing leads. AO R2, Charleston, Rome(Safina), Her USO losses since forever. Anytime a player is consistently losing big matches by blowing leads that's mental/belief.

HippityHop
Jul 4th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Welcome newbie. ;)

davidmario
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:18 PM
I've never seen a woman serve as well as Serena did today. Trust me, with that serving she could have played a competitive set on the men's tour!:eek:
Once V realized that, she knew she had to serve like that as well in order to stay in the match. Keeping that in mind she couldn't deal with the pressure Serena put on her. End of the story.
Plus, Venus has to get decent shoes. Those crappy EleVen shoes made her slip like a cow on ice!

Roookie
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:21 PM
I've never seen a woman serve as well as Serena did today. Trust me, with that serving she could have played a competitive set on the men's tour!:eek:
Once V realized that, she knew she had to serve like that as well in order to stay in the match. Keeping that in mind she couldn't deal with the pressure Serena put on her. End of the story.
Plus, Venus has to get decent shoes. Those crappy EleVen shoes made her slip like a cow on ice!

:haha: enough!

Donny
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:28 PM
The most important thing I took away from the final:

Serena hits MUCH better on the run shots. Besides second serve, this is the single most noticeable difference in their game. Venus may be lightning fast, but nearly all her running FHs and BHs were defensive shots. This allowed Serena to take control of rallies. If the player on the offensive lets up, Venus can easily get back into neutral position. But when a player is consistently hitting deep, and actually constructing a point, eventually Venus is gonna lose the point.

Serena on the other hand hit several ridiculous running shots out of nowhere that helped HER get back on offense. She does this way better, and this decided the match, imo.

bandabou
Jul 4th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Serve was too good..and in a battle of serves, Serena will ALWAYS come out on top. She played brilliantly, movement was very very good!!.

Black Mamba.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:43 AM
Great post

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:47 AM
that looks like the match i watched as well

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:52 AM
personally, i think venus' lack of tough matches leading up to the final hindered her, once they got to the breaker and serena stepped it up, venus looked a little flustered. she never gives much away but she seemed a little nervy then. in the 2nd, the dodgy vee came out to play, maybe a tougher 1/4 or 1/2 would have helped vee?

Uranium
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:53 AM
If we are going to analyze the final then....Venus's movement today was horrendous, she kept slipping, her strokes were lacking authority as they for the most part in the middle of the court, her returns were awful and she lost the crucial points like those 2 break points:o

As for Serena, she played well at times, she still made a lot of errors, she served great and went for her shots and deserved the win.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:56 AM
If we are going to analyze the final then....Venus's movement today was horrendous, she kept slipping, her strokes were lacking authority as they for the most part in the middle of the court, her returns were awful and she lost the crucial points like those 2 break points:o

As for Serena, she played well at times, she still made a lot of errors, she served great and went for her shots and deserved the win.

omg an objective fan :eek: casey get out, that doesnt happen on this forum. you should be disgusted with vee and calling serena a twat

Horizon
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:56 AM
Venus was utter shit for unexplainable reasons. :secret:

No more analysing necessary.

jubliant11
Jul 5th, 2009, 01:57 AM
Generally when a player loses a match it means they lost the crucial points. That goes for a 6-0 6-0 or a 7-6 6-7 7-6.

Venus' movement may have been a step below last year, but the level she had at the beginning until about 4-4 was good enough to win that match. She, unfortunately for her, did not keep that level.

Volcana
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:20 AM
When Serena was serving at 3-4 15-40, Venus had to have that break. And given Serena's serving, she needed it on the first point. Serena was bound to hit a service winner on one of the two points. I wouldn't call Venus' play on that point 'lazy'. But it wasn't any more urgent than it had been up to that time. Serena rolled off four straight points, leveled the match at four, and form there, kicked it up another notch. Venus played those points like she'd get another chance to break Serena's serve. And she didn't.

Serena is a better tennis player than Venus. it's really that simple. Groundies are pretty even, Serena serves better, Venus volleys better, but if Serena gets depth-of-shot, Venus doesn't get a chance to volley. Once Venus lost control of her first serve, it was over.

Sharapower
Jul 5th, 2009, 03:31 AM
Venus played crap, pretty much, while Serena was up to her standards, although I don't think it's the best tennis she could play.
You could see Venus was mad at herself when the match was finished, she didn't have it in that final.

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:04 AM
Pretty good assessments by most people. I'm not too keen on blaming Vee's result on her inefficiency though. Truth be told, Serena was the main reason Venus lost. Serena was hungrier and wanted it more. Sometimes when Serena's "in want" she puts too much pressure on herself, but this time around she played within herself and was too much for Venus. Venus pressed because she realized how much pressure she was constantly under. She knew a single break could determine the outcome of the match- and under the pressure that Serena was implying it too much to manage and Venus blinked first.

Game, set, match Serena Williams.

Morrissey
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:07 AM
I think Venus had it too easy to reach the finals. I kind of wish Venus had tougher matches she just wasn't used to not fighting I believe and she didn't have it today mentally.

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 5th, 2009, 05:18 AM
I think Venus had it too easy to reach the finals. I kind of wish Venus had tougher matches she just wasn't used to not fighting I believe and she didn't have it today mentally.

Yeah and that had a lot to do with Serena. And when I say that, I don't mean it effected Vee's psyche playing her baby sister, I mean Serena was just too much for Vee today and when Vee realized it, it then mentally broke her down.

garson
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:50 AM
Well, Elena gave a good fight - she should be in the final. Venus probably had it too easy. Notice how Serena has been the only one that beat her in the Wimbledon's final - nobody else so far. 2 people had beat Serena at the Wimbledon's final - Venus and Maria.

G.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jul 5th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Well, Elena gave a good fight - she should be in the final. Venus probably had it too easy. Notice how Serena has been the only one that beat her in the Wimbledon's final - nobody else so far. 2 people had beat Serena at the Wimbledon's final - Venus and Maria.

G.

1. if elena didn't win she didn't shouldn't be in the final because of "a good fight"

2. i don't get the last part...does that diminish serena's 3 titles because 2 people beat serena while serena has beaten her sister for all 3 of her titles???

3. oh and the road was easy up until saturday afternoon, yet the prediction was still serena was going to be crushed because of how awesome her sister was playing...now all of a sudden it was too easy, and that cost her, and the awesome play turned into her knee was hurt even though she says it wasn't, and STILL played doubles moving well

Sir Stefwhit
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:32 AM
People put too much emphasis from one round to the next. It's tennis and just because you beat someone 6-0,6-0 doesn't mean you can't be beat by that exact score the next day. Each opponent presents their own unique challenges and each opponents has their own unique weapons and strengths.

People are looking at Vee's results against opponents who haven't ever really challenged Venus the way Serena has. And they certainly aren't as mentally strong as Serena. Once we get to the finals of a grandslam throw everything else out the window. What each player did on their way to the final has little to do with how the match will play out.

It's really sad to see so many Venus fans have a hard time giving Serena her props for a final well played. On the day, she was the better player- end of story!

Slutiana
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:46 AM
I agree that the better player won on the day, but no matter how many excuses you want to make for Venus, she just didn't show up from the first ball. 90% of her serves were to the body, but did Serena read that? no she just stood in the same old place and let herself be jammed time after time, in the few trades there were, Venus' shots were barely landing past the service line, even the times when Serena wasn't pressuring her.

It was painful for me to watch that from Venus, and even thinking about it again makes me shudder, anyone who can sit here and say that Venus played as well as she could've and Serena is just too good is delusional. Neither girl played to their potential bar Serena's superhuman serving but Venus was just sloppy and that same ol' passive tennis we've been seeing all year. I mean, don't get me wrong, even though I was rooting for Venus I still would have been happy with a Serena W, but the way it was won was almost as traumatic as a tennis loss can get for me (dont worry, I didn't start crying or anything! :lol:) but Venus just left her groundstrokes, head and movement in the lockerroom that day. Its not the reason she lost, but its the reason she didn't win. If you get what I mean. :lol:

Donny
Jul 13th, 2009, 05:00 AM
I agree that the better player won on the day, but no matter how many excuses you want to make for Venus, she just didn't show up from the first ball. 90% of her serves were to the body, but did Serena read that? no she just stood in the same old place and let herself be jammed time after time, in the few trades there were, Venus' shots were barely landing past the service line, even the times when Serena wasn't pressuring her.

It was painful for me to watch that from Venus, and even thinking about it again makes me shudder, anyone who can sit here and say that Venus played as well as she could've and Serena is just too good is delusional. Neither girl played to their potential bar Serena's superhuman serving but Venus was just sloppy and that same ol' passive tennis we've been seeing all year. I mean, don't get me wrong, even though I was rooting for Venus I still would have been happy with a Serena W, but the way it was won was almost as traumatic as a tennis loss can get for me (dont worry, I didn't start crying or anything! :lol:) but Venus just left her groundstrokes, head and movement in the lockerroom that day. Its not the reason she lost, but its the reason she didn't win. If you get what I mean. :lol:

As Volcana said earlier, once Venus' first serve percentage went south, and her second serve speed started dipping, it was over. She was just asking to be broken at LEAST once. And given Serena's serving, that's all it would have taken.

And those dips are for too common to chalk up to "bad play". It's a part of Venus' game. Against other players on grass, those dips don't matter, against Serena it cost her the second set, and the match.

AcesHigh
Jul 13th, 2009, 05:01 AM
It was more than the serving. Anyway, the match is OVER... let's move on PLEASE! :)

bandabou
Jul 13th, 2009, 07:16 AM
People still don't get it...Serena just doesn't lose major finals. That's the bottom line. 11-3 in finals, so that just shows that she rises to the big stage.

vwfan
Jul 13th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Nothing separated them much during the first set. Although Venus NOT converting break points at 4-3 in the first set was :tape:

The rest of the match, Serena played the big points better. Venus didn't. Last year, Venus played the big points better and she won.

Still, Venus was impressive leading into that final and I hope that she brings that level of tennis to the hardcourts. :worship:

The Dawntreader
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Serena stepped up. Venus tried, but couldn't.

Sometimes, that's just the way it goes.

Breske
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:51 PM
But yeah i've said my piece

:crying2:

Slutiana
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:51 PM
As Volcana said earlier, once Venus' first serve percentage went south, and her second serve speed started dipping, it was over. She was just asking to be broken at LEAST once. And given Serena's serving, that's all it would have taken.

And those dips are for too common to chalk up to "bad play". It's a part of Venus' game. Against other players on grass, those dips don't matter, against Serena it cost her the second set, and the match.

It was more than the serving. Anyway, the match is OVER... let's move on PLEASE! :)
Exactly. :shrug: Its not like Serena was serving 4 bombs in a row for every game, Venus fucked up on so many textbook shots. :shrug: But yeah i've said my piece, its just annoying to see Serena fans spouting this rubbish.
People still don't get it...Serena just doesn't lose major finals. That's the bottom line. 11-3 in finals, so that just shows that she rises to the big stage.
Last year, anyone? That's the type of level I expect from Venus on grass.

Olórin
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Still, Venus was impressive leading into that final and I hope that she brings that level of tennis to the hardcourts. :worship:

Definitely, if she serves as well as she did in that first set she'd be unbeatable on the american hardcourts :shrug:
She has to create her chances and then take them for a change.

Breske
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:56 PM
Venus' serve is much easier to return on hard due to the bounce and trajectory. It really is almost a completely different serve.

Olórin
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:57 PM
Its not like Serena was serving 4 bombs in a row for every game,

No, just 2 or 3 :shrug:



its just annoying to see Serena fans spouting this rubbish.


Come again. This thread is full of quite reasonable posts from all concerned.

Olórin
Jul 13th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Venus' serve is much easier to return on hard due to the bounce and trajectory. It really is almost a completely different serve.

No. It's the same serve. What you wrote only really applies to Venus' second serve which is a bit weak at the moment even on grass. What makes Venus' serve deadly is the pace, which is just as relevant on hardcourts and grass. Obviously finding her first serve is key.

Breske
Jul 13th, 2009, 05:02 PM
No, Venus first serve is different on hardcourts as well. Hardcourts hold the ball a little longer which takes some of the zip off of it after the bounce as well as bounces the ball up higher.

It really is a much different serve on hardcourts which contributes to her lesser success there.

Trust me I know.

Olórin
Jul 13th, 2009, 05:03 PM
No, Venus first serve is different on hardcourts as well. Hardcourts hold the ball a little longer which takes some of the zip off of it after the bounce as well as bounces the ball up higher.

It really is a much different serve on hardcourts which contributes to her lesser success there.

Trust me I know.

I'll stick with my own observations, you are welcome to think what you wish and we'll agree to disagree. :shrug: