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Hazel
Jul 4th, 2009, 04:07 PM
A commentator on the BBC said that they were in favour of 5 set slamfinals because, for example, Venus would have felt more free to take more risks in the 2nd set.

This has probably been done to death here, but it has set me wondering about 5 set finals and what, if any difference it could have made in the last batch of slams. Certainly last year's mens final was all the better for 5 sets, and some fans may feel they get beter value for their ticket money.

It could mean that players would be less nervous and would give them a chance to grow into the match and get over any initial nerves?

Golovinjured.
Jul 4th, 2009, 04:09 PM
First of all, HEY HAZEL! :inlove::inlove::inlove:


To the point, I've thought about it and no. No good. Women just aren't strong enough to put in 100% over 5 sets, hence players will end up tanking sets - something we DO NOT need on the big stage.

Dodoboy.
Jul 4th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Yes please

fnuf7
Jul 4th, 2009, 04:28 PM
I'd be in favour of it (though I think I'd also introduce 5 set semi-finals as well so players are somewhat used to playing a 5 setter before they are actually in a final, don't just throw them into 5 set matches in the biggest matches of their lives :lol: )

I always hate with 3 set matches that one player can just start a little slow & the match is basically gone with almost no hope of a good match. You have to have both players come out playing well from the start & keep up that level consistently if you want a great 3 setter but in a 5 setter you can have a few dips & lulls where a player maybe has a bad patch but then has time to fight their way back into form & win another set etc. One slip up in a 3 set match can cost you the match, 5 sets gives you chances to get back into it & thus increases the likelihood of having a good, competitive, dramatic match.

Thanx4nothin
Jul 4th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Yes Indeed. It would mean I could relax a little more if they made it the same for the semis (should it prove fruitful in a few finals)

VS Fan
Jul 4th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Women HAVE played best of five sets in slams in the past. I am not sure what the rule was or when it changed.

Thanx4nothin
Jul 4th, 2009, 06:02 PM
Women HAVE played best of five sets in slams in the past. I am not sure what the rule was or when it changed.

REALLY? How long ago was that?:D

fnuf7
Jul 4th, 2009, 06:56 PM
It used to be used in the final of the YEC, certainly back in the 90s...I remember watching a Hingis v Graf 5 set match that actually went the full 5 sets (though admittedly at least 1 set was 6-0, maybe 2 sets :shrug: ) But they definitely did it for a while for the final of the YEC.

To be continued
Jul 4th, 2009, 07:07 PM
The possibility of listening to McEnroe & Tracy Austin for 5 sets.....too much for me

Pheobo
Jul 4th, 2009, 07:09 PM
We've seen women play 5 set matches at the YEC final. None of them were very good.

1984 Martina Navrátilová (5) Def. Chris Evert 6–3, 7–5, 6–1
1985 Martina Navrátilová (6) Def. Helena Suková 6–3, 7–5, 6–4
1986 Martina Navrátilová (7) Def. Hana Mandlíková 6–2, 6–0, 3–6, 6–1
1986 Martina Navrátilová (8) Def. Steffi Graf 7–6(6), 6–3, 6–2
1987 Steffi Graf Def. Gabriela Sabatini 4–6, 6–4, 6–0, 6–4
1988 Gabriela Sabatini Def. Pam Shriver 7–5, 6–2, 6–2
1989 Steffi Graf (2) Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 7–5, 2–6, 6–2
1990 Monica Seles Def. Gabriela Sabatini 6–4, 5–7, 3–6, 6–4, 6–2
1991 Monica Seles Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 3–6, 7–5, 6–0
1992 Monica Seles (3) Def. Martina Navrátilová 7–5, 6–3, 6–1
1993 Steffi Graf (3) Def. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 6–1, 6–4, 3–6, 6–1
1994 Gabriela Sabatini (2) Def. Lindsay Davenport 6–3, 6–2, 6–4
1995 Steffi Graf (4) Def. Anke Huber 6–1, 2–6, 6–1, 4–6, 6–3
1996 Steffi Graf (5) Def. Martina Hingis 6–3, 4–6, 6–0, 4–6, 6–0
1997 Jana Novotná Def. Mary Pierce 7–6(4), 6–2, 6–3
1998 Martina Hingis Def. Lindsay Davenport 7–5, 6–4, 4–6, 6–2


I just don't think 5 setters would be as interesting or exciting to watch.

-jenks-
Jul 4th, 2009, 07:10 PM
No! When they used to have it at the YEC finals, they weren't entertaining at all. A lot of players tanked sets, so there were only about 2 or 3 competitive sets. Might as well leave it best of 3

saniapower
Jul 4th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Stfu

Cakeisgood
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Three sets suck enough. Five would only prolong the suck.

To be continued
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Three sets suck enough. Five would only prolong the suck.

Maria would have laryngitis by the end of a 5-setter...

Cakeisgood
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Maria would have laryngitis by the end of a 5-setter...

Seles lasted. She'd be fine ;)

The injury timeout issue would be epic (I'm looking at youuuuuuu JJ)

To be continued
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:49 PM
Seles lasted. She'd be fine ;)

The injury timeout issue would be epic (I'm looking at youuuuuuu JJ)



Actually…Maria’s the only player I like…why she gets so much stick for making noise and the others are just as noisy…I don’t know

To be continued
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:52 PM
Even as a fan, Maria definitely is top two noise level. Second only to Larcher de Brito of course.

But I still love her to no end. :hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts:

I've never seen/or heard Larcher de Britto....

Cakeisgood
Jul 4th, 2009, 08:53 PM
Actually…Maria’s the only player I like…why she gets so much stick for making noise and the others are just as noisy…I don’t know

Even as a fan, Maria definitely is top two noise level. Second only to Larcher de Brito of course.

But I still love her to no end. :hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts:

Dunlop1
Jul 5th, 2009, 07:25 PM
THey get paid equally. Playing a 5 set final is the least they could do.
The finals already suck now. They can at least try changing it and seeing if that helps or not.
It doesn't have to be permanent.

rockstar
Jul 5th, 2009, 07:27 PM
We've seen women play 5 set matches at the YEC final. None of them were very good.

1984 Martina Navrátilová (5) Def. Chris Evert 6–3, 7–5, 6–1
1985 Martina Navrátilová (6) Def. Helena Suková 6–3, 7–5, 6–4
1986 Martina Navrátilová (7) Def. Hana Mandlíková 6–2, 6–0, 3–6, 6–1
1986 Martina Navrátilová (8) Def. Steffi Graf 7–6(6), 6–3, 6–2
1987 Steffi Graf Def. Gabriela Sabatini 4–6, 6–4, 6–0, 6–4
1988 Gabriela Sabatini Def. Pam Shriver 7–5, 6–2, 6–2
1989 Steffi Graf (2) Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 7–5, 2–6, 6–2
1990 Monica Seles Def. Gabriela Sabatini 6–4, 5–7, 3–6, 6–4, 6–2
1991 Monica Seles Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 3–6, 7–5, 6–0
1992 Monica Seles (3) Def. Martina Navrátilová 7–5, 6–3, 6–1
1993 Steffi Graf (3) Def. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 6–1, 6–4, 3–6, 6–1
1994 Gabriela Sabatini (2) Def. Lindsay Davenport 6–3, 6–2, 6–4
1995 Steffi Graf (4) Def. Anke Huber 6–1, 2–6, 6–1, 4–6, 6–3
1996 Steffi Graf (5) Def. Martina Hingis 6–3, 4–6, 6–0, 4–6, 6–0
1997 Jana Novotná Def. Mary Pierce 7–6(4), 6–2, 6–3
1998 Martina Hingis Def. Lindsay Davenport 7–5, 6–4, 4–6, 6–2


I just don't think 5 setters would be as interesting or exciting to watch.

not that i disagree, but many of the finals sets have been a wash out

Polikarpov
Jul 5th, 2009, 07:32 PM
The 1998 YEC Final between Hingis and Davenport was actually good.

Dunlop1
Jul 5th, 2009, 07:54 PM
We've seen women play 5 set matches at the YEC final. None of them were very good.

1984 Martina Navrátilová (5) Def. Chris Evert 6–3, 7–5, 6–1
1985 Martina Navrátilová (6) Def. Helena Suková 6–3, 7–5, 6–4
1986 Martina Navrátilová (7) Def. Hana Mandlíková 6–2, 6–0, 3–6, 6–1
1986 Martina Navrátilová (8) Def. Steffi Graf 7–6(6), 6–3, 6–2
1987 Steffi Graf Def. Gabriela Sabatini 4–6, 6–4, 6–0, 6–4
1988 Gabriela Sabatini Def. Pam Shriver 7–5, 6–2, 6–2
1989 Steffi Graf (2) Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 7–5, 2–6, 6–2
1990 Monica Seles Def. Gabriela Sabatini 6–4, 5–7, 3–6, 6–4, 6–2
1991 Monica Seles Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 3–6, 7–5, 6–0
1992 Monica Seles (3) Def. Martina Navrátilová 7–5, 6–3, 6–1
1993 Steffi Graf (3) Def. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 6–1, 6–4, 3–6, 6–1
1994 Gabriela Sabatini (2) Def. Lindsay Davenport 6–3, 6–2, 6–4
1995 Steffi Graf (4) Def. Anke Huber 6–1, 2–6, 6–1, 4–6, 6–3
1996 Steffi Graf (5) Def. Martina Hingis 6–3, 4–6, 6–0, 4–6, 6–0
1997 Jana Novotná Def. Mary Pierce 7–6(4), 6–2, 6–3
1998 Martina Hingis Def. Lindsay Davenport 7–5, 6–4, 4–6, 6–2


Lets gets some stats.
Currently the last 12 WTA Slam finals have been won in straight (2 sets)

56% of these matches were not won in straight sets.
Of those 56%, 25% of those would have been won in straight sets had it been best of 3 sets.
There is 1 instance where the eventual winner would have lost under a best of 3 scenario.

If I paid to see a final, I would rather watch 3 or more sets than 2.

Juju Nostalgique
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Maria would have laryngitis by the end of a 5-setter...

OMG!!! :haha: :lol:

Expat
Jul 5th, 2009, 08:51 PM
people seeing 5 hours of kuzzy chaky safina etc. wta will lose even more fans.
better to acknowledge that womens tennis is less popular than mens tennis and pay them accordingly

canoe.
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:07 PM
A commentator on the BBC said that they were in favour of 5 set slamfinals because, for example, Venus would have felt more free to take more risks in the 2nd set.

This has probably been done to death here, but it has set me wondering about 5 set finals and what, if any difference it could have made in the last batch of slams. Certainly last year's mens final was all the better for 5 sets, and some fans may feel they get better value for their ticket money.

It could mean that players would be less nervous and would give them a chance to grow into the match and get over any initial nerves?
I agree. The women have played b/5 before they can do it again. I used to love the YEC at MSG and the potential for a 5 set final{Sabatini/Seles was my fave}. I also think a 5set format would help chronic chokers. They wouldn't have to hit the ground running like in b/3. I hope Wimbledon does this.

edificio
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:33 PM
I don't like five-set matches when they go beyond three hours. That is too long. I have a tape of today's men's final, but I'm not even sure when I will watch it (and I haven't watched all of last year's final either), as I would have to set aside four plus hours for that alone. Everyone says that the men's five-setters are epic, but don't they say that because they are so long? Long does not mean good. I am not against best of five, but I think it is unnecessary in the men's and women's game. However, I don't see any problem with women being asked to do five-setters at YEC or even, perhaps, in a slam. But even the men have moved to best of three in general tournaments, even the Masters Cup series. In the slams, I don't tend to watch as many men's matches as I do the rest of the year, because they are too long and really some of the players are not as interesting to watch despite what women's tennis haters claim. As for unequal pay proponents, I cannot support that. They are all being payed for the match not by the hour. Complainers should take comfort in knowing that men's tournaments pay the men more than the women's tournaments.

Slutiana
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:39 PM
yes plz.

Craig.
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:40 PM
Umm, no thx.

Tennisstar86
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:45 PM
First of all, HEY HAZEL! :inlove::inlove::inlove:


To the point, I've thought about it and no. No good. Women just aren't strong enough to put in 100% over 5 sets, hence players will end up tanking sets - something we DO NOT need on the big stage.

I disagree with that. At least i know Venus and Serena could have gone 5 the other day....I think they could go 5 sets.. the problem is its a double edged sword...

On the one hand with best of three you had the problem of what happened with Venus and Serena. Venus tanked the second set she panicked and she rushed... Same thing happened to Serena last year. Whoever gets the first set when they two are playing at the level they are playing puts pressure on the other player in the second yet......Had they gone 5 i dont think either match would have become as one sided as they did....

Of course who wants to sit through a 5 set serving contest? I know i dont.....I did today and it was sooooo boring......And then of course you have the problem of what if it was one of the finals Safina played.... who really wants to see a 3set meltdown? so no they should stick with 3..... and considering making the mens matches 3 setters until the quarters

Serenita
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:51 PM
no thank you

Galsen
Jul 5th, 2009, 11:56 PM
no I want 3 sets it's enought
can u imagine the AO or FO in 5 sets no thanks

Tipp
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:32 AM
THey get paid equally. Playing a 5 set final is the least they could do.
The finals already suck now. They can at least try changing it and seeing if that helps or not.
It doesn't have to be permanent.

Exactly. Give it a try, if it's as bad people are predicting, then change back. Do it for all 4 slams in one year, advertising it as an "experimental change" so you don't have to be red-faced if you decide to go back to 3 sets in the next year.

People always bring up the worst women's finals as an argument for why it should not happen, but there have been plenty of boring men's finals too - the men just happen to be going through a spell of excellent finals lately, particularly at Wimbledon. Take these few finals for example:

2006: Federer def. Nadal 6-0 7-6 6-7 6-3
2005: Federer def. Roddick 6-2 7-6 6-4
2003: Federer def. Philippoussis 7-6 6-2 7-6

Restrict any of those to three-setters and you get a straight sets victory of the same duration and intensity as yesterday's women's final. Yes, this year's AO final, for example, would have been even worse if it had been five sets, but off the top of my head, Wimbledon 2005, Wimbledon 2006, US Open 2006 and Wimbledon 2008 could all have been even better finals if they had the extra sets to play.

AnomyBC
Jul 6th, 2009, 02:55 AM
As I've said in the past, I would totally be in favor of 3 out of 5 set slam finals for women. I think too many of these women's finals are just way too short.

Julian
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:11 AM
I think they should at least try it for one year. The women nowadays are more stronger physically to tough out a 3 setter in a final then the early 90s when they played best of 5 in the YEC.

Julian
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:16 AM
We've seen women play 5 set matches at the YEC final. None of them were very good.

1984 Martina Navrátilová (5) Def. Chris Evert 6–3, 7–5, 6–1
1985 Martina Navrátilová (6) Def. Helena Suková 6–3, 7–5, 6–4
1986 Martina Navrátilová (7) Def. Hana Mandlíková 6–2, 6–0, 3–6, 6–1
1986 Martina Navrátilová (8) Def. Steffi Graf 7–6(6), 6–3, 6–2
1987 Steffi Graf Def. Gabriela Sabatini 4–6, 6–4, 6–0, 6–4
1988 Gabriela Sabatini Def. Pam Shriver 7–5, 6–2, 6–2
1989 Steffi Graf (2) Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 7–5, 2–6, 6–2
1990 Monica Seles Def. Gabriela Sabatini 6–4, 5–7, 3–6, 6–4, 6–2
1991 Monica Seles Def. Martina Navrátilová 6–4, 3–6, 7–5, 6–0
1992 Monica Seles (3) Def. Martina Navrátilová 7–5, 6–3, 6–1
1993 Steffi Graf (3) Def. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 6–1, 6–4, 3–6, 6–1
1994 Gabriela Sabatini (2) Def. Lindsay Davenport 6–3, 6–2, 6–4
1995 Steffi Graf (4) Def. Anke Huber 6–1, 2–6, 6–1, 4–6, 6–3
1996 Steffi Graf (5) Def. Martina Hingis 6–3, 4–6, 6–0, 4–6, 6–0
1997 Jana Novotná Def. Mary Pierce 7–6(4), 6–2, 6–3
1998 Martina Hingis Def. Lindsay Davenport 7–5, 6–4, 4–6, 6–2


I just don't think 5 setters would be as interesting or exciting to watch.

I haven't seen the 1990 final between Monica and Gaby, but I certainly enjoyed the 95 final between Steffi and Anke and the emotional match between Steffi and Martina Hingis in 1996!

bunch_01
Jul 6th, 2009, 03:35 AM
It always bugs me that someone will always come up with the "women aren't strong enough" mantra. Women are more than strong enough. The question really is...are the ladies on the tour fit enough? For the majority I'd have to say no. They need to work to have more in common with other professional athletes like runners, fighters, basketball players, or volleyball players and less in common with the ladies who play golf. These days the guys look like they could run marathons and maybe do a little kickboxing on the side. The women...mostly look like they could easily blend in with the crowd at the local gym...and for some I'm being generous. Yes there are always the few who are gym rats or naturally gifted.

However...as much as I enjoyed today's five setter maybe a different experiment is in order. Make the women's sets best of 8. It'll give slows starters a chance and maybe cut down on the blow outs. Yes its a departure from tradition. Try it out on the lower level tournaments first. Matches that are less than an hour aren't giving the audience their money's worth.

Xanadu11
Jul 6th, 2009, 04:59 AM
I am all for it. Women are not strong enough? Well they are getting paid enough, they should get into the gym and work harder. Plus they are playing against other women, no one is asking them to play against the men.

I'm sick of these quick grand slam finals. These matches are supposed to the pinnacle of tournament. At least maybe then we will get a 3 set match, even if it is in straights.

The US Open seems to love being innovative. I would love for them to give it a go.

Sharapower
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:18 AM
That's not a priority. What's important now is to raise the quality of play on the WTA Tour, I don't see what 5-sets Slam Finals will bring for that purpose.

Cakeisgood
Jul 6th, 2009, 05:56 AM
That's not a priority. What's important now is to raise the quality of play on the WTA Tour, I don't see what 5-sets Slam Finals will bring for that purpose.

+1