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View Full Version : Top 10 players that will improve their games to compete with the WILLIAMS


TeeRexx
Sep 10th, 2002, 02:51 AM
SERENA WILLIAMS has the current edge, but it is still she and sister VENUS that rule the tour at this time with SERENA leading as the top GS title winner this year and VENUS as the top overall tour title leader.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20020907/capt.1031455985us_open_tennis_xnyf203.jpg

As for the remainder of the current top ten, most are quite shell shocked and a couple have already started to spiral downwards.

I expect Lindsay Davenport to maintain her conditioning and to move back up in the ranking. A radical training method could give her an additional boost to help her possibly grab a mojor next year.
Believe it or not, tap dancing or an other, quick feet style dancing, would improve her foot quickness. In fact, this should have been done years ago, but I beieve that it could help her game even now.

Will Monica finally bite the bullet, be inspired by Sampras and get in great shape for next year? I hope that she does, but I would not bet on that occurring. However, Monica has a great heart and should remain highly ranked in the top ten next year.

I would like to think that Mauresmo would finally be ready to get her game ready for a historical win in Paris next year after the close run that she had against VENUS in the Open semis this year.

As for the rest of the current top ten, they are in disarray at best. They are a distracted and beaten bunch that are focusing more on their social lives or other personal or family demons or have just lost to much heart to successfully combat either VENUS or SERENA.

Peridotpixie
Sep 10th, 2002, 04:35 AM
I think Clijsters has a shot--she did beat Venus this year, and took her to three sets in San Diego. Admittedly, she's been a bit of a mess against players very much beneath her this year, but she seems to get to a good level when playing strong players.

Jordan.
Sep 10th, 2002, 04:41 AM
Vera ( Of course :rolleyes: ) will eventually challenge the Williams,probaly not next year,but maybe 2004.I mean,she already has taken a set from Kim Clijsters and Serena Williams and has only played around 10 tournaments this year (Age Eligibility Rules). When she plays more,she will improve and be more consistent than she already is. :cool:

AjdeNate!
Sep 10th, 2002, 04:46 AM
Henin has beaten a Williams this year.
Clijsters has beaten a Williams this year.
Rubin has beaten a Williams this year.
Seles has beaten a Williams this year.
Schnyder has beaten a Williams this year.
Testud has beaten a Williams this year.

While yes they're on top of the game and playing the best tennis out there - they are not completely invincible. They do lose. Until they finish the year with losses against only one another, I don't buy your statement that: most are quite shell shocked and a couple have already started to spiral downwards.

TeeRexx
Sep 11th, 2002, 04:00 AM
When one of the above players beats a WILLIAMS three or more times in one year or once or twice in a GS final, then we may have something to crow about, but until then, it will not be considered a momumental achievement.

VENUS & SERENA are not invinceable, but from their records, when playing anyone but one another, they are the closest thing to being invincible on the tour at this time.

2284
Sep 11th, 2002, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Peridotpixie
I think Clijsters has a shot--she did beat Venus this year, and took her to three sets in San Diego. Admittedly, she's been a bit of a mess against players very much beneath her this year, but she seems to get to a good level when playing strong players.

She has been a mess due to injury (she hasn't been able to practice for most of the year)...but she is getting her form back...so we'll see what she's like @ the Aus. Open this year when she has the crowd behind her. Kim has a lot of fans here...the only downside is that she has to put up with the media trying to convince her to marry Lleyton and play Fed. Cup for Australia.

supremeross
Sep 11th, 2002, 09:02 PM
Venus and Serena are currently heads and shoulders above the rest currently. I have no doubts that the rest of the tour will catch up, it's just a matter of time.

TeeRexx
Sep 11th, 2002, 10:35 PM
I will not hold my breath waiting for the tour to catch up to VENUS & SERENA. :)

o0O0o
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:36 AM
Give it up Tee! Serena is truly dominating the tour, but you don't fool me at all. Venus? Heh. Isn't that funny...she's been dominating? I don't think so. She hasn't won any big events this year, is 0-4 against her sister, is SLAMLESS, and all of this at a time when the majority of the top 10 is at their career low-point! With Martina playing her worst tennis ever and being out most of the year, Lindsay being out most of the year, Monica losing form, and the Belgians having a little bit of a sophomore slump, Venus still has done nothing of note.

Remember in 2000, many said Martina Hingis was done, she didn't win a Slam, a terrible year. Well guess what, she won more titles in that year and finished with a higher ranking than Venus will this year. Overall, Venus Williams is certainly on the decline, with her stigma of being Venus getting her through matches just as Hingis used to. By the middle of next year, that aura will be cracked and she will be exposed for the one-dimensional player she is.

Serena dominating? Yes. Venus? Heh. I know it kills Venus fans like Tee here, but it's the truth.

mboyle
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:38 AM
The young players. Hantuchova is the oldest player with a shot if you ask me. Davenport will also be a challenge, Hingis could in theory, be probably won't want to put in the work. Henin would have to hire a contingent of counselors, but Clijsters/Mauresmo are about as good as they can get. And obviously it isn't good enough. Vera is to mentally shakey if you ask me. Eleni/Maria Sharapova/Vera Douchevina/Svetlana Kuznetsova/Dinara Safina are IMO the most likely to dethrone the sisters.

VS Fan
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:01 AM
It is interesting to me that the folks that have such a HUGE problem with Venus' dominance in 2000, and 2001, seem to warm up to Serena slightly. I guess it's because she has brought the nemesis of their favorite player down a notch. Note that Venus STILL rules, except when playing Serena. Venus has lost SEVEN matches this year, FOUR of them to Serena. Only Monica, Kim and Sandrine have beaten her otherwise.

Seven tournaments, Venus is STILL dominating, except when playing Serena.

Note that I am slightly more of a Serena fan, so it doesn't bother me either. I STILL like Venus against the rest.

joaco
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:09 AM
monumenal achievement?:rolleyes:

Mikey
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Seles
Henin has beaten a Williams this year.
Clijsters has beaten a Williams this year.
Rubin has beaten a Williams this year.
Seles has beaten a Williams this year.
Schnyder has beaten a Williams this year.
Testud has beaten a Williams this year.

While yes they're on top of the game and playing the best tennis out there - they are not completely invincible. They do lose. Until they finish the year with losses against only one another, I don't buy your statement that: most are quite shell shocked and a couple have already started to spiral downwards.

i agree w/ Tee - the fact is, you actually have to go and search for the 6 names that have beaten a Williams (and not just Serena or Venus, A williams, please note that there are two of them). ALL the other names are not like that. i mean, you basically proved tee's point - you found SIX names that have combined to beat two people all year. and technically, you could call it seven and add Meghann Shaughnessy to the list, but i don't think she really counts (she beat serena at sydney before OZ). and please note that none of those players have repeated. none of them (not even my favorite has troubles, and yes, please note that my favorite is lindsay, not either venus or serena, and for the record, i like serena more anyway.) and all things considered, its bound to happen - you just cant have a million-and-zero record against someone, probabliity says that won't happen - but that's another story.

ooooo - about what you said.

along w/ what was already commented above, venus has dominated the tour as well. while her record is not as good as it was last year or in 2000, let's look at it. ok, so a 60-7 record isn't AS good as a 46-5 record, in your opinion. fine. but let's look at that 60-7 record. 4 losses have been to serena. so that makes her record 60-3 if you discount serena. as if that wasn't amazing. that means that she's played 14 tournaments and won 7 of them, lost in the final in 3 majors to serena, hasn't lost in the quarterfinal ever this year, and even then she's lost in one quarterfinal and two semifinals. that's 11 finals in 14 tournaments. that's not dominating? where are YOU living - in a cave? i mean honestly, what does she have to do - win every tournament, beat serena all the time? even in 2000 and 2001, venus and serena dominated the tour. venus did the winning overall, but when they were separated, serena contributed to the williams household trophies too. there is no way you can say that they haven't dominated this year. that's absurd.

VS Fan
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:21 AM
Mikey:

This is as CLEAR as anyone can put it. Other WTA players would KILL to have Venus' record this year. The only glitch to her having THREE slams and TEN tourneys was her sister, Serena! Also Serena kept her out of a final at NASDAQ. (fifth slam)

This was definately Serena's year, from #9 at the start to #1 in FIVE months. (She was still #9 after not playing Indian Wells in March) But, Venus is STILL way ahead of the rest of the pack!

TeeRexx
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:56 AM
Tier I: SERENA & VENUS
Tier II: Lindsay
Tier III: Capriati & maybe , finally, Momo
Tier IV: The rest of the top ten & Chanda
Tier V: The rest of the darn tour

That's about it.

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:06 AM
What is so funny is that no matter who has a break through and "challenges" the williams sister they still have to "challenge" the rest of the tour.

I mean how can you count jen as a "challenge" to the sisters when she can't even make it past momo? RIght now only Chanda, Kim, and justine are challengers because they have wins this year and they are top tenners. Next comes lindsay, jen, momo and daniela followed up by jelena and martina.

TeeRexx
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:11 AM
Good point Cybell.
Going after VENUS & SERENA takes its toll on those so-called "challengers".

Jan
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:28 PM
Firstly, Serena and venus are 1 and 2 in the world; Serena is playing fantastic tennis, followed by Venus and no-one in therir right minds can deny it. Many congratulations to them, but

No need to worry too much about Lindsay because if she keeps up the momentum and stays injury-free she is not far away from beating Venus and Serena. Before long it will happen.

Unfortunately the bubble will burst for the Williams girls and I am not being spiteful here. Just think, Graf's did, Seles's did (in very unfortunate circumstances, likewise Capriati. Martina's reign has come to an end. Let Serena and Venus make the most of it whilst they are at the Top of Tree.

:wavey: :D

Raisin
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by VS Fan
It is interesting to me that the folks that have such a HUGE problem with Venus' dominance in 2000, and 2001, seem to warm up to Serena slightly. I guess it's because she has brought the nemesis of their favorite player down a notch. Note that Venus STILL rules, except when playing Serena. Venus has lost SEVEN matches this year, FOUR of them to Serena. Only Monica, Kim and Sandrine have beaten her otherwise.

Seven tournaments, Venus is STILL dominating, except when playing Serena.

Note that I am slightly more of a Serena fan, so it doesn't bother me either. I STILL like Venus against the rest.

Thats so true VS Fan, me thinks some of them are warming up to Serena because their favs haven't done anything for them to be proud of this year. So its all good since its the Williams Tennis Association.;)

saki
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:44 PM
There are players around who can, do & will beat Serena & Venus on ocasion, but I can't see anyone beating them on a regular basis.

The players who I think will beat either or both once or twice next season are: Lindsay, Martina, Justine, Kim, Daniela, Amelie. Possibly Anna if she gets her head together

Informative
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:27 PM
The entire WTA has won a grand total of only 7 (!) out of 107 matches against Venus and Serena so far this year, yet some absolutely clueless people on this board like o000o and Seles are deranged enough to assert with a straight face that the sisters (BOTH of them) haven't been dominating. As Mikey clearly pointed out Venus's record of 60-3 (or .950!!) against everyone she's played in the WTA aside from Serena as well as 11 finals in 14 tournaments is one of the greatest win-loss records in tennis history! Talk about domination!! Venus has now won an amazing 19 out of her last 35 tournaments over the past 27 months--again one of the highest winning percentages in tour history, and she has won 90% of her matches (146-16 or .901) since 1999. Also please keep in mind that NO ONE except Serena has beaten Venus more than ONCE since 1999, and that she is 16-2 against Davenport, Hingis, and Capriati over the past three years, and 28-4 against Seles, Mauresmo, Clijsters, Henin, and Dokic over the past three years!! Even Serena's equally outstanding record isn't this good overall against the top 10 players over the same period. So the idea that BOTH of the sisters is not dominant this year or weren't dominant over the past two years prior to this one is obviously ridiculous and wrong-headed based on all objective evidence. The only "decline" here is the one occuring in o000o's reasoning ability, which wasn't very high to begin with (speaking of being one-dimensional LOL)

Aloysius
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
I will not hold my breath waiting for the tour to catch up to VENUS & SERENA. :)

They said that no one could catch up to MARTINA NAVRATILOVA. But they did.

They said that no one could catch up to STEFFI GRAF. But they did.

They also said that no one could catch up to MONICA SELES. But they did.

Eventually, someone will catch up to VENUS & SERENA.

Don't get too cocky! You're just a spectator!

diana
Sep 12th, 2002, 05:02 PM
Venus will be alright. She will once again, take control of her rightful spot at #1. Until Serena beats Venus playing at her best, (Venus that is) I will not concede that Serena is the better of the 2. Serena just happens to be playing better at this time. I mean, 10 DFs, 43 UFEs?
The only person who can seriously challenge them both right now is Lindsay(once she gets match tough) maybe jen(when she's finished clubbing, drinking, and smoking:rolleyes: ) And I don't think Lindsay or Jen can challenge them when V&S are on.

As far as Chanda is concerned, she played her heart out against an off-Vee and still lost. That should tell you that she would be no match if Vee was on. Same as Kim, Tracey Austin said that "Kim C played the match of her life in San Diego and would have beaten anybody else on tour except Venus and Serena." End quote. I don't doubt that the WS will be challenged by someone. I just don't see who that someone is at this time.:)

sartrista7
Sep 12th, 2002, 05:48 PM
Lindsay, Chanda and Jen have the game to take full advantage when the sisters are off - but it doesn't help that they play the same game as Venus and Serena, but not as well. Lindsay can hit just as hard and play tactics which are as good, but she'll never be as fast. Jen can do everything 90% as well as Venus and Serena. As Diana said, Chanda played at 100% against a slightly off-form Venus and still lost.

Justine Henin, Amélie Mauresmo and Daniela Hantuchova are three who could start taking on the Williamses, and beating them regularly, from at least next year. Martina Hingis has the talent to become a factor again, but it appears that she doesn't want to make the necessary changes in her game. In the future - well, who knows how good Dinara Safina, Maria Sharapova etc. will turn out to be?

One thing's for certain though - to compete with Venus and Serena on equal terms you need a reliable serve which can be as much of a weapon as their serves are.

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 12th, 2002, 06:00 PM
Satrista I agree with you, but what is working in the sisters favor is that they have each other to push. Think about it: serena has whipped venus the last four times, three for grandslams no less. This is crunch time for Venus, either adopt a new attacking strategy ie charging the net, serve and volley, an improved serve or get left behind in second place.

Now what has everyone been saying to beat a williams sister? Attack the net, be aggressive, improve your serve. So really the sisters, especially venus, will be doing what the rest of the smart ones on tour are doing already (chanda, momo).

I wonder how the tour will handle a Net Attacking, Improved second serving, all court game venus williams?

The Crow
Sep 12th, 2002, 06:01 PM
Alex, I agree with most part of your post. But I think Lindsay has the weapons to beat them, because Lindsay's shots are more precise/accurate, so I think she can compete with them even if they're on-form.

Totally agree about the serve thing. For instance, Justine, if she ever gets that serve right, she can compete with the very best (or be the very best). She can compete with the Williams sisters right now (showed it in some good matches against them this year), but because of her serve she has almost no "easy" points.

All good and well, others have to improve their game to be a factor (again), but the Williams sisters aren't at their peak just yet either. Especially Serena (which is kinda frightening ;))

sartrista7
Sep 12th, 2002, 06:12 PM
cybelle - yes, Venus needs to serve and volley. Maybe not become a serve-volleyer on every point, but hell, she has the weapons - and her current game isn't working against Serena at all. The net shouldn't be their only target though - anyone can just play a match completely filled with junk, different slices and spins on every point so that Venus and Serena don't manage to find their rhythm - that's what Patty Schnyder did in Charleston. That's what Martina should be doing, too.

Crow - yes, I'm really surprised at how often Justine is underrated merely because of her appalling record against the sisters. But really, she's been in a position where a win was possible almost every time she's played them this year - and that's with her serve still a liability. She doesn't even need to change any other part of her game - just the serve. And even then it's not bad - certainly on clay it's a toss-up as to who'd win.

I will say, though, no-one will be able to beat Venus or Serena at Wimbledon any time in the foreseeable future. The serve is so much of a factor on grass, and there is not one woman currently playing who can both break their serve and hold her own consistently enough to beat them. Everywhere else, they can be vulnerable. On grass, no.

TeeRexx
Sep 12th, 2002, 08:02 PM
Aloy - Sure, someone will eventually catch up to VENUS & SERENA, but it sure won't happen real soon and sure won't happen before the end of next year.

Keep holding your breath. :p

Amanda
Sep 13th, 2002, 09:09 AM
Venus is also dominating. She has reach the finals of three straight majors--French Open, Wimbledon and US Open. I call this dominating. Some people will go all out to discredit Venus. Look at her record. The rest of the pack would do just about anything to have those stats. Venus' record vs anyone else on tour except Serena= dominating...even without a slam. That's a fact!

Williams Rulez
Sep 13th, 2002, 12:23 PM
Great post Mikey! :)

Sammm
Sep 13th, 2002, 01:26 PM
Monica can challenge if she loses a stone.
Daniella can challenge if she puts on a stone.:)
But i love tennis the way it is.:angel:

servenrichie
Sep 13th, 2002, 01:43 PM
It seems oooo's ban has been lifted. The board has been generally spite-free during his Incarceration.

lukehingis
Sep 13th, 2002, 05:44 PM
There are only 3 players in my mind that have the game, experience and the heart to beat the william sisters. Lindsay, Martina and Jennifer.

Lindsay hits as hard if not harder then the sisters but trails big time in movement. Lindsay has a better shot at Venus than Serena. If Lindsay improves her speed and serves well in the match, she really can beat them regularly. She owned venus until 2000.

Martina is probably the most talented player ever. She has the talent, shots, speed but lacks in the power department. She can compensate that with taking the ball on the rise but her serve especially the second one is her major weakness. If Dokic can punish the 2nd serve, Venus and Serena would have it for breakfast. William sisters like pace and Hingis doesn't give them any, she also plays well against venus whom she has a better shot at. I like that Hingis said she has a lot to work on after the US Open, I think she'll be a challenge next year.

Jennifer has the speed and power off the ground to beat them. Although she has never beaten Venus she did have 7 match points against her and she nearly beat Serena at the French. She probably believes she can beat serena but she needs to improve her shaky 2nd serve and try to overcome this hurdle known as Amelie Mauresmo! She doesn't have the experience of Hingis or Davenport but she has the heart and is probably dying for that win over venus. When she gets back her confidence she'll pose a greater threat. I see Jenny beating Serena at the Aussie Open 2003, ending Serena's Grand Slam streak!

I really think these 3 should form some sort of support group. Encourage each other, give tips on how to win a williams, train together and make packs on meeting in GS Finals. Lindsay would be chairman and Martina would recruit new players to the team and Jennifer is the secretry.

TeeRexx
Sep 13th, 2002, 09:29 PM
Martina, Lindsay & Capriati grouping together to battle the WILLIAMS rather than trying to win on their own skills?
How very odd.

Lindsay may try, but that lack of foot speed will do her in against VENUS & SERENA.

Martina has not got the serve nor the focus to compete with the top two players.

Capriati has lost some focus, dedication and heart as of late and has not shown her Oz winning form at all this year.

mboyle
Sep 13th, 2002, 11:17 PM
Lukehingis..... LOL!!!!!! That is such a funny idea. The problem is I can't see poor Jenny as a secretary. She wouldn't understand why every other word wasn't like or um. (:angel: ) I love her but seriously I think she would mess up. She would just have to be there, and leave all the leadership to Linds, and the crafty stuff to Marti.

TeeRexx
Sep 14th, 2002, 05:00 AM
VENUS & SERENA will probably split ALL of the slams next year and completely break up that unholy trinity of Cap, Big Davey and marti. LOL

Hurley
Sep 14th, 2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Capriati has lost some focus, dedication and heart as of late and has not shown her Oz winning form at all this year.

Except for when she actually won Oz this year, right? ;)

TeeRexx
Sep 14th, 2002, 12:33 PM
The heat won at Oz, I believe. LOL

lukehingis
Sep 14th, 2002, 03:08 PM
I think either Marti, Lindsay or Jenny will make the finals. No Williams in Aussie Finals. That way they would be encouraged and stop futher Williams Domination. I like the sisters but one sister slam a year is enough! We've had 4 in 13 months!

LMJ Alliance Rulez!!!

Hingis I think will think of Hiring Amelie and Chanda since they are the few who have nearly beaten or beaten a william on a surface other than clay.

TeeRexx
Sep 14th, 2002, 03:13 PM
Wow, maybe we will have 7 Sister Slam finals in 23 months!
Injuries and boredom are the first two obstacles to the WILLIAMS, after that is the entire tour. :)

2284
Sep 14th, 2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
The heat won at Oz, I believe. LOL

...yeah, don't you just love Melbourne summers?:)

disposablehero
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by TeeRexx

As for the rest of the current top ten, they are in disarray at best. They are a distracted and beaten bunch that are focusing more on their social lives or other personal or family demons or have just lost to much heart to successfully combat either VENUS or SERENA.

Or perhaps not all of them are that bad.

treufreund
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:52 AM
Hey DH, Remember when Tee was just soooo happy that Munich lost the tourney and that LA was getting and he went on and on about the huge crowds LA would pull in? Now I am glad that it left Munich cuz Monica could not play there plus the crowds sucked but it does not appear that LA was all that great either. :rolleyes:

earthcrystal
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:55 AM
Where is Dino-breath lately? Haven't seen him around. ;)

wongqks
Nov 12th, 2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by TeeRexx
Tier I: SERENA & VENUS
Tier II: Lindsay
Tier III: Capriati & maybe , finally, Momo
Tier IV: The rest of the top ten & Chanda
Tier V: The rest of the darn tour

That's about it.

hehe sorry I love to prove Tee Rexx wrong, hehe come back Tee :wavey:

Experimentee
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:07 AM
People go on and on about how Serenas domination will end as it did for everyone else, but shes only been really dominating for a year! Hingis, Nav, Graf etc domination period typically lasted more than a year! If they expect Serena to start losing next year I think they will be sorely disappointed

Gowza
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:17 AM
seles, clijsters, capriati, mauresmo, hantuchova and dokic will improe to challenge the williams and henin will definately do it on clay.

wongqks
Nov 12th, 2002, 08:20 AM
I think Serena will continue winning and it will be foolish to think that she will not be the favourite to win all slams next year, but I never infer that so...