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View Full Version : Pastor Of Church Performs "Gay Exorcisms"


Scotso
Jun 27th, 2009, 01:33 AM
v9oIuBNx-3A

:scared: :help:

Infiniti2001
Jun 27th, 2009, 03:07 AM
Shoot me :armed:

Optima
Jun 27th, 2009, 04:03 AM
Really, really hurtful, not to mention, scary.

:sad:

mckyle.
Jun 27th, 2009, 04:10 AM
Finally, someone who can save me ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! :inlove: :worship:

mckyle.
Jun 27th, 2009, 04:19 AM
But really, all of the talk of "spirits" and such things are just too hilarious :bigcry:

I feel so, so bad for the religious.

doni1212
Jun 27th, 2009, 05:07 AM
I'm religious and all but an "homosexual spirit" "alcohol spirit" and "crack cocaine spirit"?!!!
:lol:

Knizzle
Jun 27th, 2009, 05:27 AM
I thought it might be a crazy lady, but I'm presently surprised to see she is not.

tterb
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:13 AM
^Wait, that's not crazy?

I hope that guy finds some peace. I also hope he doesn't end up marrying a woman in an attempt to prove he's rid of his "spirit".

renstar
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:13 AM
This would be nothing new to those who have had anything to do with the a pentecostal church... they are very much into the spiritual world etc...... whether it actually works I don't know.... would be interesting if that man really changed

Knizzle
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:17 AM
^Wait, that's not crazy?

I hope that guy finds some peace. I also hope he doesn't end up marrying a woman in an attempt to prove he's rid of his "spirit".No, I don't believe it is.

moby
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:21 AM
Will watch this with sound some time. I had to suppress a chuckle at 0:48 when the scrolling text commentary read: R.I.P Farrah Fawcett. (:tape: @ self) The juxtaposition of the running Fawcett comments with "casting out the homosexual demon" was just too surreal for me.

renstar
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:22 AM
The problem also is that she says any gays are welcome into the church but it is expected they are 'delivered' of that lifestyle, in other words your initially welcome in but it is expected you change......... therefore there would be tremendous pressure to change if you stayed there.......

mckyle.
Jun 27th, 2009, 07:29 AM
I thought it might be a crazy lady, but I'm presently surprised to see she is not.

That woman is clearly insane :unsure:

homogenius
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:46 AM
Sad to see that in 2009, a guy can still feel uncomfortable enough with his sexuality to try such a thing.Getting rid of "his demon of homosexuality" ?? Are we back in the Middle Age ?

tterb
Jun 27th, 2009, 09:21 AM
No, I don't believe it is.
The church is free to disagree with any behavior it chooses, but thinking behavior is caused by spirits? :scared:

I'm a little curious to know what else she could possibly have said that you were worried would be crazy.

CooCooCachoo
Jun 27th, 2009, 11:17 AM
"it's not just the homosexual spirit, you have the alcohol spirit, the crack cocaine spirit, the adultery spirit"

:spit:

Whitehead's Boy
Jun 27th, 2009, 11:20 AM
That lady might have get rid of her crack-cocaine spirit, but the stupidity spirit is still possessing her.

Scotso
Jun 27th, 2009, 07:40 PM
That lady might have get rid of her crack-cocaine spirit, but the stupidity spirit is still possessing her.

:lol:

rintintin
Jun 27th, 2009, 07:51 PM
so many black men on the downlow(spelling) and with high # of hiv positive amongst AA you would think they would remind them to use protection and stay faithful instead we have this:rolleyes:

Joee
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:24 PM
:o

sakya23
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Religion gets on my damn tits.

Kart
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:36 PM
She seemed like a nice lady.

The interviewer was trying to bait her but she stayed consistent and clearly wasn't trying to offend anyone.

I think she gave a pretty good account of herself.

Dave.
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:37 PM
Firstly I have to say what a foul attitude that women has. Ignorant, aggressive and in need of some lessons herself.

These "exorcisms" are of course ridiculous, it's a shame that they are going on in so many places. In many cases it's the families who force people to go through with these and not necessarily about the people hating or not accepting themselves because of their sexuality.

There was an article in yesterday's Metro (below) about the same thing going on here in North-West London about how most of the time the people are left traumatised by them. There's so much wrong with all of this. I've always seen my Church as a warm and friendly place so it's difficult to imagine something like this is happening in them.




http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Homosexuals_left_traumatised_by_cerem onial_cure&in_article_id=692445&in_page_id=34

Gay exorcisms are regularly being performed in Christian churches in Britain, it has emerged.

The ceremony is being carried out to rid worshippers of the supposed dem*ons which make them homosexual.

The pastor of one Pentecostal church in north-west London said he held four or five exorcisms a year and claimed they always worked.

However, gay campaigners said the 20-minute ritual often traumatised those on whom it was carried out.

Details of the practice emerged after a video of the exorcism of a 16-year-old American boy was posted on YouTube.

The footage was taken down amid calls for the church leaders involved to be prosecuted.

Here, the Rev John Ogbe-Ogbeide, who runs the United Pentecostal Ministry in Harrow, said he carried out the riutal to cast out evil spirits that were responsible for homosexuality.

He added: 'The evil spirits are telling you what's wrong is right, the opposite sex is not attractive.'

There was no minimum age for the ceremony because a demon could take hold at any point in life, said Mr Ogbe-Ogbeide.

Sometimes people were calm during the process but sometimes their body convulsed.

'There are some who speak but we know this is the demon. The demon can speak through anybody,' he added.

Mr Ogbe-Ogbeide last performed the ritual in January to help a young man, who was planning to marry his girlfriend but said he was also in love with another man.

He added: 'He said if it carried on it would upset their plans to have kids and he wanted to live in matrimony.'

But the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement said it was frequently contacted by people left traumatised by the experience.

Chief executive the Rev Sharon Ferguson, said 'a lot of fundamentalist groups believe homosexuality can be cured'.

Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell said he had heard of exorcisms on children, which was child abuse 'pure and simple'.

He added: 'Some adults who have been pressured into exorcisms have been preyed upon when they're in a vulnerable state and not really able give fully informed consent.

'They're maybe people with learning difficulties or mental health problems. There needs to be a thorough investigation of all the churches who are doing these exorcisms.'

In March, it was revealed that a fifth of therapists, many in the pay of the NHS, had attempted to 'cure' patients of homosexuality.

Dave.
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:38 PM
She seemed like a nice lady.

The interviewer was trying to bait her but she stayed consistent and clearly wasn't trying to offend anyone.

I think she gave a pretty good account of herself.

:lol:

vadin124
Jun 27th, 2009, 09:36 PM
i agree with Knizzle...

that woman is not "insane" or "crazy"...she has particular beliefs that she doesn't believe in homosexuality...what is wrong with that? i'm not saying i agree with it, but you can't call someone insane just because they have beliefs that are different to yours...

had you grown up in a different environment, perhaps your beliefs would be the same as hers...how can she know anything other than what she has grown up around?

if she was ranting on about how all homosexuals should be shot at birth, saying it's all wrong and they're all going to hell, like that Phelps Roper woman, then fair enough; she's crazy! but she wasn't at all, she was just putting across the beliefs of her church, which may conflict with other peoples

Edinboro
Jun 27th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Damn, that is so fucked up. We choose our sexuality prior to our current incarnation, and it CANNOT be changed.

But thanks for the video Scotso. It was funny and awful at the same time.

tterb
Jun 28th, 2009, 01:22 AM
i agree with Knizzle...

that woman is not "insane" or "crazy"...she has particular beliefs that she doesn't believe in homosexuality...what is wrong with that? i'm not saying i agree with it, but you can't call someone insane just because they have beliefs that are different to yours...

had you grown up in a different environment, perhaps your beliefs would be the same as hers...how can she know anything other than what she has grown up around?

if she was ranting on about how all homosexuals should be shot at birth, saying it's all wrong and they're all going to hell, like that Phelps Roper woman, then fair enough; she's crazy! but she wasn't at all, she was just putting across the beliefs of her church, which may conflict with other peoples
She's not crazy because she believes homosexuality is wrong, but because she believes behaviors are caused by "spirits" that can be exorcised. Screaming and flailing your arms about at someone isn't going to do a thing to change the neural pathways in his brain that contribute to his sexual attractions.

I don't really know why I feel the need to explain how ridiculous this is. I think I'll stop now.

Knizzle
Jun 28th, 2009, 01:23 AM
The church is free to disagree with any behavior it chooses, but thinking behavior is caused by spirits? :scared:

I'm a little curious to know what else she could possibly have said that you were worried would be crazy.People who stand on the corner, protesting and yelling "God Hates Fags" and the like are crazy.

Knizzle
Jun 28th, 2009, 01:27 AM
Firstly I have to say what a foul attitude that women has. Ignorant, aggressive and in need of some lessons herself.What did she say that was ignorant or aggressive?

harloo
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:00 AM
This would be nothing new to those who have had anything to do with the a pentecostal church... they are very much into the spiritual world etc...... whether it actually works I don't know.... would be interesting if that man really changed

:worship: It wasn't anything shocking to me considering I grew up in COGIC. They prayed demons out all the time. One time a lady had a demon in her and it jumped into this little boy. :eek:REAL TALK. I will never forget the endless revivals and tarry service at the altar. The missonaries and ministers would work the youth, telling us to praise the lord until he forgave our sins. Now I think the tarrying part was ridiculous but to be honest being in church for all of my childhood kept me out of trouble.

Scotso
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:07 AM
People who stand on the corner, protesting and yelling "God Hates Fags" and the like are crazy.

I simply cannot believe there are people who think this ISN'T crazy... unless of course, you're members of this church? :help: :lol:

"You can come in our church, but you cannot live that lifestyle in our church. But when they come in, they have to get delivered."

She also calls herself "a prophet."

harloo
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:12 AM
She's not crazy because she believes homosexuality is wrong, but because she believes behaviors are caused by "spirits" that can be exorcised. Screaming and flailing your arms about at someone isn't going to do a thing to change the neural pathways in his brain that contribute to his sexual attractions.

I don't really know why I feel the need to explain how ridiculous this is. I think I'll stop now.

The majority of Christians believe that bad behaviors can be caused by evil spirits. Does that make the majority of Christians crazy? I've seen ministers and missionaries praying out demons and all of them were of sound mind.

Knizzle
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:22 AM
I simply cannot believe there are people who think this ISN'T crazy... unless of course, you're members of this church? :help: :lol:

"You can come in our church, but you cannot live that lifestyle in our church. But when they come in, they have to get delivered."

She also calls herself "a prophet."First thought of mine before I watched the video and when I saw the headline was that she might be crazy, but when I watched, I am convinced she is not.

Scotso
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:22 AM
The majority of Christians believe that bad behaviors can be caused by evil spirits. Does that make the majority of Christians crazy?

Yes. Or at least seriously deluded.

LoveFifteen
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:36 AM
He will be back on the downlow within 2 years. :haha:

The crack cocaine demon?! :spit:

How pathetic that people cannot take responsibility for their own poor behavior and instead blame it on demons! :rolleyes:

sipnsurfMurph
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:41 AM
Breaking news. Christians, Muslims & Jews all believe in an all powerful spirit.

Asylum stocks skyrocket.

Dementieva_Dude
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:45 AM
If only they could figure out how to put the gay demons into some hot straight men...that would be a church I could believe in :angel:

Expat
Jun 28th, 2009, 05:41 AM
If only they could figure out how to put the gay demons into some hot straight men...that would be a church I could believe in :angel:

:haha: I am joining that church.

Scotso
Jun 28th, 2009, 05:42 AM
If only they could figure out how to put the gay demons into some hot straight men...that would be a church I could believe in :angel:

http://www.grimoires.net/media/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/

~{X}~
Jun 28th, 2009, 06:04 AM
Paganism. :hearts:

Scotso
Jun 28th, 2009, 06:06 AM
Paganism. :hearts:

Demonology. :p

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 06:46 AM
i agree with Knizzle...

that woman is not "insane" or "crazy"...she has particular beliefs that she doesn't believe in homosexuality...what is wrong with that? i'm not saying i agree with it, but you can't call someone insane just because they have beliefs that are different to yours...

had you grown up in a different environment, perhaps your beliefs would be the same as hers...how can she know anything other than what she has grown up around?

if she was ranting on about how all homosexuals should be shot at birth, saying it's all wrong and they're all going to hell, like that Phelps Roper woman, then fair enough; she's crazy! but she wasn't at all, she was just putting across the beliefs of her church, which may conflict with other peoples

I'm sorry hate in any of it's forms is wrong, that includes hateing homosexuals. You can't say you don't believe in homosexuality and NOT be homophobic/hateful. I just don't like black people. I was brought up to believe all black people were horrid individuals. I hope that you would respect my right to not like black people cause it's a core belief of mine. What is wrong with that?

vadin124
Jun 28th, 2009, 12:55 PM
I'm sorry hate in any of it's forms is wrong, that includes hateing homosexuals. You can't say you don't believe in homosexuality and NOT be homophobic/hateful. I just don't like black people. I was brought up to believe all black people were horrid individuals. I hope that you would respect my right to not like black people cause it's a core belief of mine. What is wrong with that?

but she never said she hated homosexual people, just that she didn't believe in their way of life, which although is ignorant, it doesn't make her crazy

The Dawntreader
Jun 28th, 2009, 01:09 PM
Ironic, considering she is most in need of one.

Knizzle
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:18 PM
I'm sorry hate in any of it's forms is wrong, that includes hateing homosexuals. You can't say you don't believe in homosexuality and NOT be homophobic/hateful. I just don't like black people. I was brought up to believe all black people were horrid individuals. I hope that you would respect my right to not like black people cause it's a core belief of mine. What is wrong with that?*sigh*.....not even close

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:28 PM
but she never said she hated homosexual people, just that she didn't believe in their way of life, which although is ignorant, it doesn't make her crazy

Never said she was crazy..... Saying she doesn't believe in their way of life IS hateful.

*sigh*.....not even close

Hate no matter what form it takes is wrong. Racism, Homophobia, Bigotry and Sexism are all wrong. *sigh*....it's not that hard to understand.

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Never said she was crazy..... Saying she doesn't believe in their way of life IS hateful.



Hate no matter what form it takes is wrong. Racism, Homophobia, Bigotry and Sexism are all wrong. *sigh*....it's not that hard to understand.

You can't make people like one another Solitaire, they are entitled to hold their own views.

For example, you could hate homosexuals if you chose to.

That is your choice - as long as you're not telling them what to do or trying to dictate how they live their lives, I'm sure many would accept that.

I don't have a problem with the woman in this link - she said she doesn't believe homosexuality is a way of life which is fine. I'm not asking her to be a homosexual any more than she is asking me to not be one.

The fact is that the man who underwent this exorcism did so at his request. The only thing that is wrong here IMHO is that he felt the need to do that but then again, that was his choice.

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 02:57 PM
You can't make people like one another Solitaire, they are entitled to hold their own views.

For example, you could hate homosexuals if you chose to.

That is your choice - as long as you're not telling them what to do or trying to dictate how they live their lives, I'm sure many would accept that.

I don't have a problem with the woman in this link - she said she doesn't believe homosexuality is a way of life which is fine. I'm not asking her to be a homosexual any more than she is asking me to not be one. The fact is that the man who underwent this exorcism did so at his request. The only thing that is wrong here is that he felt the need to do that but then again, that was his choice.

Never said she didn't have a right to her "beliefs". She has every right (at least in the US) to voice her opinions without being censored. I'd fight for her right to say whatever she wants. I just can't respect hate in any of it's forms. She says that she doesn't have anything against homosexuals but doesn't believe in their life style. First of all it is NOT a life style. Who in their right mind would choose to be gay in this world? I respect her as much as I respect a racist. They are both wrong but have every right to voice their opinions/beliefs.

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:27 PM
Never said she didn't have a right to her "beliefs". She has every right (at least in the US) to voice her opinions without being censored. I'd fight for her right to say whatever she wants. I just can't respect hate in any of it's forms. She says that she doesn't have anything against homosexuals but doesn't believe in their life style. First of all it is NOT a life style. Who in their right mind would choose to be gay in this world? I respect her as much as I respect a racist. They are both wrong but have every right to voice their opinions/beliefs.

I appreciate your point but the blanket 'you're wrong therefore I have no respect for you' approach doesn't help any of us in the long run. If anything, it just reinforces our prejudices about one another and promotes division.

People like her are never going to change their minds because they're enshrined in their beliefs which, as you've pointed out, she has a right to.

At some point we have to focus on living in the same communities peacefully without butting heads for something that really does not matter to either of us. Homophobia is rife all over this planet but most people are okay to get along with once you get to know them. It's the best way to change people's minds.

If she's not preaching at us, I don't see why should we be having a go at her. I doubt she cares what we have to say any more than we do about her. If she got to know a few personable gay men / women, I think that would give her more food for thought than a lecture.

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:43 PM
I appreciate your point but the blanket 'you're wrong therefore I have no respect for you' approach doesn't help any of us in the long run. If anything, it just reinforces our prejudices about one another and promotes division.

People like her are never going to change their minds because they're enshrined in their beliefs which, as you've pointed out, she has a right to.

At some point we have to focus on living in the same communities peacefully without butting heads for something that really does not matter to either of us. Homophobia is rife all over this planet but most people are okay to get along with once you get to know them. It's the best way to change people's minds.

If she's not preaching at us, I don't see why should we be having a go at her. I doubt she cares what we have to say any more than we do about her. If she got to know a few personable gay men / women, I think that would give her more food for thought than a lecture.

:lol: It's not like I'm going to assualt the poor woman for being a homophobe. I stand by my blanket statement cause in fact her views are wrong there is no doubt. Hate is Hate that is a simple fact. I'm sorry but I'm not about to keep my mouth closed and play nice when I see something that is clearly wrong. I have no interest in changing her mind or lecturing her in anyway. She's a grown woman and has her life figured out. You don't think that racist, bigots, homophobes and sexiest people are wrong? To me that's a no brainer. I'll say this again she has ever right to voice her opinions but I just don't agree with them.

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 03:56 PM
I have no interest in changing her mind or lecturing her in anyway.

I guess you'd have no problem with her carrying on her ignorant exorcisms then.

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:01 PM
I guess you'd have no problem with her carrying on her ignorant exorcisms then.

None at all as long she isn't breaking any laws. If he wants to exorcise his gay demon then so be it.

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:03 PM
LOL. Well at least you're consistent !

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:11 PM
LOL. Well at least you're consistent !

I really don't see where our views differ.....

Bezz
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:21 PM
She's not crazy, she is just grossly misinformed and ignorant of something she doesn't understand.

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:31 PM
I really don't see where our views differ.....

They don't by much. I just think this woman's comments stem from ignorance rather than hate. It's a minor point but important IMHO.

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:33 PM
They don't by much. I just think this woman's comments stem from ignorance rather than hate. It's a minor point but important IMHO.

Right cause ignorance doesn't breed hate......;)

Kart
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:37 PM
Right cause ignorance doesn't breed hate......;)

Maybe but one does not equal the other :p.

Solitaire
Jun 28th, 2009, 04:44 PM
Maybe but one does not equal the other :p.

Oh but they go hand in hand so often I'd go as far to say that they are BFF.:p

Scotso
Jun 29th, 2009, 04:48 AM
The only thing that is wrong here IMHO is that he felt the need to do that but then again, that was his choice.

That's subjective.

Is it really choice when someone abuses your faith and preys on your fears to make you do something?

Knizzle
Jun 29th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Never said she didn't have a right to her "beliefs". She has every right (at least in the US) to voice her opinions without being censored. I'd fight for her right to say whatever she wants. I just can't respect hate in any of it's forms. She says that she doesn't have anything against homosexuals but doesn't believe in their life style. First of all it is NOT a life style. Who in their right mind would choose to be gay in this world? I respect her as much as I respect a racist. They are both wrong but have every right to voice their opinions/beliefs.She didn't HATE the boy though? :shrug: She had nothing but good things to say about him.

Scotso
Jun 29th, 2009, 05:22 AM
She didn't HATE the boy though? :shrug: She had nothing but good things to say about him.

I'm sorry, but you're deluding yourself. Saying she wants to "save" him is not "saying good things" about him. She pretty bluntly said that she won't accept "those" people without them changing who they are. If that's not a rejection and condemnation, what is?

Knizzle
Jun 29th, 2009, 05:40 AM
I'm sorry, but you're deluding yourself. Saying she wants to "save" him is not "saying good things" about him. She pretty bluntly said that she won't accept "those" people without them changing who they are. If that's not a rejection and condemnation, what is?That's not what she said, but I won't keep debating. I understand where you are coming from, I know all too well there are people out there who misuse the name of the Lord to attack people and even to TRY and justify their hate, but it's not the case here.

Solitaire
Jun 29th, 2009, 01:44 PM
She didn't HATE the boy though? :shrug: She had nothing but good things to say about him.

Right and I don't believe I said she did. What I was saying is that her views on homosexuality are hateful. I really don't see how there can be any doubt about that. :shrug:

Kart
Jun 29th, 2009, 05:40 PM
That's subjective.

Is it really choice when someone abuses your faith and preys on your fears to make you do something?
When someone walks into a church and asks to be exorcised of their homosexuality, I'd say they're making a choice.
Wouldn't you ?

Scotso
Jun 29th, 2009, 05:47 PM
When someone walks into a church and asks to be exorcised of their homosexuality, I'd say they're making a choice.
Wouldn't you ?

He didn't do that.

Kart
Jun 29th, 2009, 06:22 PM
He didn't do that.
The lady said he came to their church and told them he didn't want to live the way he was. Then, when inviting people up to be delivered during Sunday service, he hit the floor.

So it seems to me he pretty much did do that.

Scotso
Jun 29th, 2009, 07:10 PM
The lady said he came to their church and told them he didn't want to live the way he was. Then, when inviting people up to be delivered during Sunday service, he hit the floor.

So it seems to me he pretty much did do that.

Do you believe her? That he just walked in and asked to be cured? She uses pretty careful phrasing there.

This kid has had the idea beaten into his head that this is wrong and he needs to change. He thinks he'll burn in hell forever unless he changes. Is he really being given a choice?

It's the equivalent of saying battered women "choose" to stay with abusive husbands.

Kart
Jun 29th, 2009, 09:11 PM
Do you believe her? That he just walked in and asked to be cured? She uses pretty careful phrasing there.

This kid has had the idea beaten into his head that this is wrong and he needs to change. He thinks he'll burn in hell forever unless he changes. Is he really being given a choice?

It's the equivalent of saying battered women "choose" to stay with abusive husbands.
There is no evidence to suggest she's lying.

Why do you not believe her ?

Scotso
Jun 30th, 2009, 01:12 AM
There is no evidence to suggest she's lying.

Why do you not believe her ?

Because she thinks you can cure homosexuality with exorcism and is trying to defend her questionable practices on national television.

You're still ignoring the one thing that matters. This guy is said to be "deeply religious." Clearly he has had this beaten into his head. He's not making a choice.

Whitehead's Boy
Jun 30th, 2009, 02:24 AM
The majority of Christians believe that bad behaviors can be caused by evil spirits. Does that make the majority of Christians crazy? I've seen ministers and missionaries praying out demons and all of them were of sound mind.

The majority of Christians might be believe in evil spirits/demons, but the claim that there are specific kinds of spirit (like the crack/cocaine spirit and the gay spirit) is not, to my knowledge, a Christian belief.

If the lady is right, who created those specific spirits and why? God one day decided to create an angel and the angel decided to become a crack/cocaine spirit after partying in Miami? Or an angel had anal sex with Satan and the result was a gay spirit? Please.

harloo
Jun 30th, 2009, 03:27 PM
The majority of Christians might be believe in evil spirits/demons, but the claim that there are specific kinds of spirit (like the crack/cocaine spirit and the gay spirit) is not, to my knowledge, a Christian belief.

If the lady is right, who created those specific spirits and why? God one day decided to create an angel and the angel decided to become a crack/cocaine spirit after partying in Miami? Or an angel had anal sex with Satan and the result was a gay spirit? Please.


This is simply your interpretation of demonic spirits as it pertains to Christian beliefs. From my experience the interpretation of demonic spirits varies depending on denomination. I've known pastors and ministers who have labeled a demon(alcoholic, cocaine, etc.) while praying for someone at the altar and they weren't derranged in any capacity. In every case, the worshiper asked the minister/pastor to specifically pray that demon out because that's what they were struggling with. My issue isn't whether you disagree with this per say but to prematurely claim someone is "crazy" because they do something you don't believe in is judgmental.

Knizzle
Jun 30th, 2009, 04:09 PM
The majority of Christians might be believe in evil spirits/demons, but the claim that there are specific kinds of spirit (like the crack/cocaine spirit and the gay spirit) is not, to my knowledge, a Christian belief.

If the lady is right, who created those specific spirits and why? God one day decided to create an angel and the angel decided to become a crack/cocaine spirit after partying in Miami? Or an angel had anal sex with Satan and the result was a gay spirit? Please.1/3 of angels were cast out of heaven with Satan.

Whitehead's Boy
Jun 30th, 2009, 04:26 PM
The point I was making is why would there be *specific* kind of evil spirits? I don't think it is biblical at all.

Scotso
Jun 30th, 2009, 04:48 PM
It isn't, it's pagan.

Kart
Jun 30th, 2009, 05:46 PM
You're still ignoring the one thing that matters. This guy is said to be "deeply religious." Clearly he has had this beaten into his head. He's not making a choice.
Being 'deeply religious' is not an affliction any more than it is an excuse. It is a choice.

Sam L
Jul 1st, 2009, 10:22 AM
Being 'deeply religious' is not an affliction any more than it is an excuse. It is a choice.

Well said. He made a choice based on his faith.

It's the equivalent of saying battered women "choose" to stay with abusive husbands.

:help:

This is simply your interpretation of demonic spirits as it pertains to Christian beliefs. From my experience the interpretation of demonic spirits varies depending on denomination. I've known pastors and ministers who have labeled a demon(alcoholic, cocaine, etc.) while praying for someone at the altar and they weren't derranged in any capacity. In every case, the worshiper asked the minister/pastor to specifically pray that demon out because that's what they were struggling with. My issue isn't whether you disagree with this per say but to prematurely claim someone is "crazy" because they do something you don't believe in is judgmental.

I agree. I find it hilarious when they do that.

Scotso
Jul 1st, 2009, 12:42 PM
I agree. I find it hilarious when they do that.

:spit: :haha: :lol:

From the guy who bashed Catholics and called them all stupid for not supporting the use of condoms. Another gem from the board's biggest hypocrite.

stevos
Jul 1st, 2009, 03:31 PM
The majority of Christians believe that bad behaviors can be caused by evil spirits. Does that make the majority of Christians crazy? I've seen ministers and missionaries praying out demons and all of them were of sound mind.
No, it makes them idiots, and ignorant of years and years of scientific/psychological research.
Not all Christians are this stupid, but yes, MANY of them are.
Seems some people in this thread know people (like I do) who still believe demons are real, and are really the cause for some problems.
And I agree, these people aren't necessarily bad people, but they're ignorant and willfully unintelligent in terms of certain things (not saying they are totally unintelligent, some are actually quite successful. Religion does funny things to people.)
Being 'deeply religious' is not an affliction any more than it is an excuse. It is a choice.

I would agree, it is a choice.
However, not for kids. I never really had a choice in my "faith" at a young age, and I was a vulnerable kid struggling with my homosexuality. I believed God could cast it out of me. And that's because of these people that claimed that had worked for them (when we later found out, it hadn't), and led to years and years of strife for me as a kid, since I just couldn't "rid the demon".

So, yes, they have the right to this *fucking idiotic* (I'm sorry, I'm too bitter to use nice words) mindset. But when it comes to affecting children, I won't stand for it, like in the cases in Britain Dave posted about.
It can ruin lives.

Stamp Paid
Jul 1st, 2009, 04:16 PM
so many black men on the downlow(spelling) and with high # of hiv positive amongst AA you would think they would remind them to use protection and stay faithful instead we have this:rolleyes:!!

mykarma
Jul 1st, 2009, 04:26 PM
You can't make people like one another Solitaire, they are entitled to hold their own views.

For example, you could hate homosexuals if you chose to.

That is your choice - as long as you're not telling them what to do or trying to dictate how they live their lives, I'm sure many would accept that.

I don't have a problem with the woman in this link - she said she doesn't believe homosexuality is a way of life which is fine. I'm not asking her to be a homosexual any more than she is asking me to not be one.

The fact is that the man who underwent this exorcism did so at his request. The only thing that is wrong here IMHO is that he felt the need to do that but then again, that was his choice.
Agreed with your post.

Even though I found the vid to be disturbing, her beliefs are no different than many other Christians Jews, Muslims, and other so called religious people. For whatever reason this young man doesn't want to be gay and is trying to use his religion to over come it, no more, no less. For his sake I hope he's able to find peace in his life no matter what the outcome.

Stamp Paid
Jul 1st, 2009, 04:33 PM
How pathetic that people cannot take responsibility for their own poor behavior and instead blame it on demons! :rolleyes:!!!!!!!!!!!
and that queen was on nobody's downlow. He was probably the church choir director :lol:

mykarma
Jul 1st, 2009, 04:36 PM
Do you believe her? That he just walked in and asked to be cured? She uses pretty careful phrasing there.

This kid has had the idea beaten into his head that this is wrong and he needs to change. He thinks he'll burn in hell forever unless he changes. Is he really being given a choice?

It's the equivalent of saying battered women "choose" to stay with abusive husbands.
No reason not to and the young man certainly didn't appear as though he was being held against his will.

mykarma
Jul 1st, 2009, 04:49 PM
so many black men on the downlow(spelling) and with high # of hiv positive amongst AA you would think they would remind them to use protection and stay faithful instead we have this:rolleyes:
Obviously this was important to this young man and she was fulfilling his wishes.

Kart
Jul 1st, 2009, 05:50 PM
I would agree, it is a choice.
However, not for kids. I never really had a choice in my "faith" at a young age, and I was a vulnerable kid struggling with my homosexuality. I believed God could cast it out of me. And that's because of these people that claimed that had worked for them (when we later found out, it hadn't), and led to years and years of strife for me as a kid, since I just couldn't "rid the demon".
Children are an entirely different entity I agree as they cannot consent.

harloo
Jul 1st, 2009, 09:21 PM
No, it makes them idiots, and ignorant of years and years of scientific/psychological research.
Not all Christians are this stupid, but yes, MANY of them are.
Seems some people in this thread know people (like I do) who still believe demons are real, and are really the cause for some problems.
And I agree, these people aren't necessarily bad people, but they're ignorant and willfully unintelligent in terms of certain things (not saying they are totally unintelligent, some are actually quite successful. Religion does funny things to people.)
Insulting a group of Christians by calling them unintelligent, stupid, and ignorant(because they believe in evil spirits) doesn't validate your argument. Not one entity has been able to authenticate the existence or non-existence of evil spirits. The task is impossible. So you either believe in inconclusive scientific studies or the bible which is a personal choice in my opinion. My gripe wasn't necessarily how anyone felt about exorcisms but more so the rush to label someone deranged because they had this belief.

stevos
Jul 1st, 2009, 09:35 PM
Insulting a group of Christians by calling them unintelligent, stupid, and ignorant(because they believe in evil spirits) doesn't validate your argument. Not one entity has been able to authenticate the existence or non-existence of evil spirits. The task is impossible. So you either believe in inconclusive scientific studies or the bible which is a personal choice in my opinion. My gripe wasn't necessarily how anyone felt about exorcisms but more so the rush to label someone deranged because they had this belief.

Well I didn't call her deranged.
I will continue to call her, and others who agree with her, willfully ignorant.

harloo
Jul 1st, 2009, 09:39 PM
No reason not to and the young man certainly didn't appear as though he was being held against his will.

It's really interesting how some posters are making this accusation when that's rarely the case during altar calls. Usually, the worshiper contacts the Pastor prior to the service and reveals what they need prayer for. It's not a surprise when they're asked to the altar, nothing is forced. How did the Pastor even know the internal conflict this young man was struggling with if she didn't speak to him before?

harloo
Jul 1st, 2009, 09:45 PM
Well I didn't call her deranged.
I will continue to call her, and others who agree with her, willfully ignorant.

In the same vein, Christians who believe in evil spirits will continue to call non-believers ignorant. I guess it all works out fine.;)

comfortably.numb
Jul 1st, 2009, 09:57 PM
I've been drinking a little and on my way home today I hit a pedestrian with my car. I kept driving. Can someone please tell me the address to the church so I can get Pastor McKinney to exorcise my drunk driving demons before I head to work tomorrow? I would hate for it to happen again. Thanks in advance.

Scotso
Jul 2nd, 2009, 01:57 AM
I've been drinking a little and on my way home today I hit a pedestrian with my car. I kept driving. Can someone please tell me the address to the church so I can get Pastor McKinney to exorcise my drunk driving demons before I head to work tomorrow? I would hate for it to happen again. Thanks in advance.

:lol:

Whitehead's Boy
Jul 2nd, 2009, 02:32 AM
Now that we have a full scientific understanding of lightning, very few people believe that Thor, or another supernatural entity, is responsible for it. Does it mean that it has been disproven that Thor is responsible for lightning? No. People use Occam's razor principle and drop supernatural explanations when they're no longer required.

I don't think people are that "stupid" or "crazy" for believing in evil spirits; they are simply superstitious and don't realize that once we'll get a fuller explanation of homosexuality or addictions, then there won't be a need to invoke supernatural entities to explain those "conditions".

From my point of view though, it's depressing that in 2009 there are so many people who still have the view of the world that the natural world is somewhat controlled by invisible entities.

Sam L
Jul 2nd, 2009, 07:38 AM
:spit: :haha: :lol:

From the guy who bashed Catholics and called them all stupid for not supporting the use of condoms. Another gem from the board's biggest hypocrite.

Flawed logic. The equivalent would be a Catholic choosing not to use a condom. Like in this situation, a person of a faith is making a choice for their faith and for their personal life.

If this woman came out and said that she would perform an exorcism on ALL gays, that would be a good analogy. As it is, she's not doing that.

But then again, logic is not exactly your strength, is it? :spit: :haha: :lol:

Scotso
Jul 2nd, 2009, 02:50 PM
Flawed logic. The equivalent would be a Catholic choosing not to use a condom. Like in this situation, a person of a faith is making a choice for their faith and for their personal life.

If this woman came out and said that she would perform an exorcism on ALL gays, that would be a good analogy. As it is, she's not doing that.

But then again, logic is not exactly your strength, is it? :spit: :haha: :lol:

Since when have Catholics demanded that non-Catholics not use condoms?

Sam L
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:00 PM
Firstly, thanks for admitting your flawed logic. It's interesting how when you're wrong you immediately change the topic. :lol:

Secondly... nah, I wouldn't even bother. The whole point of my post was to show how flawed your logic was. It's done.

I've already said my points in this thread and shown you for the idiot you are. Boo yah! :lol:

Scotso
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:20 PM
It's not a different topic. Being a Catholic is choosing to abide by certain principles. The Church doesn't force people to not use condoms.

It's amazing to me that you're willing to use "religious tolerance" to justify your ridiculous positions on some topics, and then when it comes to a topic where you and religion aren't compatible, you bash religion relentlessly. And then you accuse others of being idiots?

Sam L
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:26 PM
It's not a different topic. Being a Catholic is choosing to abide by certain principles. The Church doesn't force people to not use condoms.

Same thing here. This guy is choosing to abide by certain principles. This woman didn't force him to not be gay. This was Kart's point all along. What's so difficult to understand?

And no, I don't have a problem with a Catholic choosing to abide by the church and not use condoms even though I disagree with this.

Once again, you're trying to show my inconsistencies that aren't there and are making up things just to suit your argument. Stop lying and get a new act. :rolleyes:

Sam L
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM
The Church doesn't force people to not use condoms.

Pope Benedict XVI, who arrived on Tuesday in Cameroon for his first trip to Africa as pontiff, denounced condom use on the AIDS-ravaged continent, saying there were better ways to combat the disease.http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/pope-denounces-condom-use-in-africa-20090318-91al.html

Sam L
Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:37 PM
And yes I absolutely condemn the Pope's stance on condom use in Africa where so many are dying from AIDS.

And no I don't condemn this man who is making a personal choice based on faith and this woman who is fulfilling his spiritual needs.

If you think that's hypocritical, then that speaks VOLUMES about the person you are. :o :o :o

égalité
Jul 2nd, 2009, 05:20 PM
Agreed with your post.

Even though I found the vid to be disturbing, her beliefs are no different than many other Christians Jews, Muslims, and other so called religious people. For whatever reason this young man doesn't want to be gay and is trying to use his religion to over come it, no more, no less. For his sake I hope he's able to find peace in his life no matter what the outcome.

No. This person wants to change because other people have told him that there is something wrong with him. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to have an issue with their own sexuality just because they have an issue with it. If that were the case, then why don't any straight people want to become gay? Any person and any institution that supports what this woman is supporting is wrong and there's nothing else to it.

Kart
Jul 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM
^ I don't think many people here are actually supporting an institution that claims to be able to exorcise homosexuality.

I've always assumed that homophobia has its original roots stemming from religion but nowadays is multi-factorial. You meet all sorts of people that aren't strongly religious that think homosexuality isn't 'natural' or that it's 'genetic' or a product of upbringing etc.

So, personally, I tend to blame society as a whole for people wanting to go into churches and be exorcised, not individual institutions or 'other people' as you put it.

IMHO we have a very long way to go.

Kart
Jul 2nd, 2009, 06:08 PM
Same thing here. This guy is choosing to abide by certain principles. This woman didn't force him to not be gay. This was Kart's point all along.
I'm not sure that was quite my point - this guy may or may not be abiding by any principles.

My point is, simply that he walked in there and volunteered himself for an exorcism. It's sad that he felt the need to do that but that was his choice as he could have walked away from religion. The lady they interviewed said that homosexuals are welcome into their church so it's not as if he had to undergo an exorcism to be allowed to attend Sunday service.

Whilst I think her exorcism ideas are way off, I think the real problem here is not her offering the exorcism, it's him thinking he needs it.

Paneru
Jul 2nd, 2009, 06:09 PM
That poor kid! :sad:

égalité
Jul 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
I'm not sure that was quite my point - this guy may or may not be abiding by any principles.

My point is, simply that he walked in there and volunteered himself for an exorcism. It's sad that he felt the need to do that but that was his choice as he could have walked away from religion. The lady they interviewed said that homosexuals are welcome into their church so it's not as if he had to undergo an exorcism to be allowed to attend Sunday service.

Whilst I think her exorcism ideas are way off, I think the real problem here is not her offering the exorcism, it's him thinking he needs it.

Exactly. And also her reinforcing his self-loathing by making homosexuality out to be something as absurd as a demon.

Expat
Sep 26th, 2009, 11:36 AM
http://www.queerty.com/the-16-year-old-boy-who-had-his-gay-demon-exorcised-he-says-hes-cured-of-the-gay-20090924/

nikita771
Sep 26th, 2009, 11:53 AM
The video has been removed, but I think that this is the same pastor and young man who were on the Tyra show last week. He admits that he continues to struggle with his feelings, i.e. he's still gay. The pastor also admitted that in HER past, she was involved in same-sex relationships. It was an interesting interview from all parties. I don't agree with the exorcism and feel sorry for his future wife. There is only so long that you can deny your true self.

Knizzle
Sep 26th, 2009, 06:00 PM
The video has been removed, but I think that this is the same pastor and young man who were on the Tyra show last week. He admits that he continues to struggle with his feelings, i.e. he's still gay. The pastor also admitted that in HER past, she was involved in same-sex relationships. It was an interesting interview from all parties. I don't agree with the exorcism and feel sorry for his future wife. There is only so long that you can deny your true self.She said she had thoughts, nothing more. lol

nikita771
Sep 27th, 2009, 05:21 AM
She said she had thoughts, nothing more. lol

Thanks for the correction! I don't know how I misheard that:)

Rastafarian
Sep 27th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Religion is so fucking homophobic :weirdo:

BartoliBabes
Sep 27th, 2009, 09:16 PM
the biggist load of crap i have EVER heard !