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View Full Version : FURY! - "Wimbledon girls are 'just there to sell sex', says BBC pundit Michael Stich"


ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 21st, 2009, 12:57 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/20/article-1194452-00465CD000000258-929_233x393.jpg
Michael Stich claims Wimbledon ladies are 'just there to sell sex'

As a former Wimbledon champion, Michael Stich might be expected to have an expert appreciation for the skill and dedication required to play tennis at its highest level.

But on the eve of this year’s tournament, the BBC Radio 5 Live commentator has caused outrage among the sport’s female stars by claiming their role is as much about ‘selling sex’ on court as it is about their sporting prowess.

Stich, the 1991 men’s singles champion, made his politically incorrect comments last night as he waded into the argument over the loud grunting of many of the game’s top women.

The 40-year-old German said the noise detracted from the players’ ‘sex appeal’. He said: ‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

When challenged that it was the women’s role to play the best tennis they could, rather than look sexy, Stich stuck to his guns. ‘That’s what they sell,’ he told The Mail on Sunday.

‘They want to look good, they pay attention to their looks and everything.’

Last night Harriet Foxwell, of the Women’s Sport and Fitness Foundation, blasted Stich’s remarks. ‘Unfortunately, commentary about female tennis players isn’t always about their skill on court,’ she said.

‘Our wish is that rather than talking about what they are wearing or the noises they make, they are judged on their professional performance.’

However, not everyone took offence. Two-time Wimbledon singles winner Serena Williams admitted: ‘Sex sells! It’s great for Angelina Jolie and it’s true across the board.’

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/20/article-1194452-056A8902000005DC-289_468x286.jpg
Russian tennis star and swimwear model Maria Kirilenko takes part in her sixth Wimbledon this week

She added: ‘I’ve never been one of the loudest grunters. I just play my game and sometimes I grunt and sometimes I don’t. I’m not conscious when I’m doing it. I’m just zoned out. It doesn’t really affect me if my opponent is [grunting].’

Stich, who beat Boris Becker to the 1991 title, also joked that the only way of stopping the grunting from women players such as Portuguese teenager Michelle Larcher De Brito was to ‘shoot them’.

He added: ‘How are you going to prevent it? How are you going to measure it?’

Former Wimbledon referee Alan Mills added that there was ‘nothing in the rules’ to stop players grunting.

Urgh! This guy needs fired from BBC for this! :mad:

:inlove:
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:00 AM
FURY!

Oh Serena. :tears:
Stich :weirdo:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:07 AM
Serena :o

Stich is an idiot! Always has been. I remember when Stich said something about Serena one year at Wimbledon and she just dismissed him like he was nothing. He felt pretty humiliated on the Today at Wimbledon show. :rolls:

Dave.
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:08 AM
What a bloody fool! :o

Why can't people like Stich just focus on the men's event? They're never going to look at the women's event as equal to the men's so just stay the fuck away. :fiery: It seems someone just wanted to get their name in the press before Wimbledon and this was the only way to do it. :awww:

and while we're on the subject of looks, he looks horrid.

homogenius
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:12 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/20/article-1194452-00465CD000000258-929_233x393.jpg
Michael Stich claims Wimbledon ladies are 'just there to sell sex'

As a former Wimbledon champion, Michael Stich might be expected to have an expert appreciation for the skill and dedication required to play tennis at its highest level.

But on the eve of this year’s tournament, the BBC Radio 5 Live commentator has caused outrage among the sport’s female stars by claiming their role is as much about ‘selling sex’ on court as it is about their sporting prowess.

Stich, the 1991 men’s singles champion, made his politically incorrect comments last night as he waded into the argument over the loud grunting of many of the game’s top women.

The 40-year-old German said the noise detracted from the players’ ‘sex appeal’. He said:‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

When challenged that it was the women’s role to play the best tennis they could, rather than look sexy, Stich stuck to his guns. ‘That’s what they sell,’ he told The Mail on Sunday.

‘They want to look good, they pay attention to their looks and everything.’

Last night Harriet Foxwell, of the Women’s Sport and Fitness Foundation, blasted Stich’s remarks. ‘Unfortunately, commentary about female tennis players isn’t always about their skill on court,’ she said.

‘Our wish is that rather than talking about what they are wearing or the noises they make, they are judged on their professional performance.’

However, not everyone took offence. Two-time Wimbledon singles winner Serena Williams admitted: ‘Sex sells! It’s great for Angelina Jolie and it’s true across the board.’

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/20/article-1194452-056A8902000005DC-289_468x286.jpg
Russian tennis star and swimwear model Maria Kirilenko takes part in her sixth Wimbledon this week
She added: ‘I’ve never been one of the loudest grunters. I just play my game and sometimes I grunt and sometimes I don’t. I’m not conscious when I’m doing it. I’m just zoned out. It doesn’t really affect me if my opponent is [grunting].’

Stich, who beat Boris Becker to the 1991 title, also joked that the only way of stopping the grunting from women players such as Portuguese teenager Michelle Larcher De Brito was to ‘shoot them’.

He added: ‘How are you going to prevent it? How are you going to measure it?’

Former Wimbledon referee Alan Mills added that there was ‘nothing in the rules’ to stop players grunting.

Urgh! This guy needs fired from BBC for this! :mad:

Slutrena knows her stuff :inlove:

http://www.thenewsvault.com/imgs/serena_williams8_t.jpg
http://www.thenewsvault.com/imgs/serena_williams7_t.jpg
http://www.thenewsvault.com/imgs/serena_williams3_t.jpg

perseus2006
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:15 AM
Federer doesn't care how he looks on court and the girls should follow suit...

I can just imagine this guy jumping on court and emptying a colt 45 into MLB; one final haunting shriek and nothing left but shrill echoes and a crimson mist floating on the wind!

This is a real stitch!!!

:inlove:
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:16 AM
Serena :o

Stich is an idiot! Always has been. I remember when Stich said something about Serena one year at Wimbledon and she just dismissed him like he was nothing. He felt pretty humiliated on the Today at Wimbledon show. :rolls:

"My career is actually more stellar than Stich's, so he can say whatever he pleases. I've never been over-dramatic in my whole career"

:tape::tape::tape:

young_gunner913
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:20 AM
Federer doesn't care how he looks on court and the girls should follow suit...
I can just imagine this guy jumping on court and emptying a colt 45 into MLB; one final haunting shriek and nothing left but shrill echoes and a crimson mist floating on the wind!

This is a real stitch!!!

are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour.

Joana
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:21 AM
When challenged that it was the women’s role to play the best tennis they could, rather than look sexy, Stich stuck to his guns. ‘That’s what they sell,’ he told The Mail on Sunday.


That sure is what the WTA seem to think. What they don't understand is that Maria Sharapova's (for example) photo shoots don't promote women's tennis, they promote Maria Sharapova.

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:23 AM
This guy is an idiot! :fiery: He was an idiot 2 years ago when he questioned Serena's injury :armed: and he is an idiot now. :mad: He can get away with this SHIT in the U.K, but he wouldn't have a job if he said this crap in many other countries. McEnroe said stuff much less offensive than this and he almost got fired, and he is waaaaay more popular and better at his job than Stich. It is a shame to think this man can call himself a professional. :o So I guess Navratilova was selling sex? and so was Henin?:eek: And OMG!!! Safina is too. :speakles: Oh God I think I just went blind.:cool: (*^*&)&)^*(&^%&()))()%^#$%$

Nico_E
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:25 AM
haha, it wouldnt be Stich unless he said something dramatic to open the tournament

he's just getting ppl talking, thats all

perseus2006
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:28 AM
are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour.

Exactly! You got it on your first attempt!!!

Pheobo
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:31 AM
Cut him some slack. I mean, if he wasn't making flagrant attempts to keep his name in the media most tennis fans would probably completely forget he ever existed.

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:32 AM
Cut him some slack. I mean, if he wasn't making flagrant attempts to keep his name in the media most tennis fans would probably completely forget he ever existed.

Oh if he would only give us the opportunity.:devil:

perseus2006
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:33 AM
This guy is an idiot! :fiery: He was an idiot 2 years ago when he questioned Serena's injury :armed: and he is an idiot now. :mad: He can get away with this SHIT in the U.K, but he wouldn't have a job if he said this crap in many other countries. McEnroe said stuff much less offensive than this and he almost got fired, and he is waaaaay more popular and better at his job than Stich. It is a shame to think this man can call himself a professional. :o So I guess Navratilova was selling sex? and so was Henin?:eek: And OMG!!! Safina is too. :speakles: Oh God I think I just went blind.:cool: (*^*&)&)^*(&^%&()))()%^#$%$

I can't agree with this part. McEnroe is just as misogynistic as Stich and never lets an opportunity go by to disparage the WTA, its players and the game they play. McEnroe and hsi sidekick Carillo are the worst commentators in all of sports.

Edinboro
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:39 AM
Dude, looks like a man who would say this.

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:46 AM
I can't agree with this part. McEnroe is just as misogynistic as Stich and never lets an opportunity go by to disparage the WTA, its players and the game they play. McEnroe and hsi sidekick Carillo are the worst commentators in all of sports.

I agree with you,:yeah: he is a sexist, woman hating, piece of horseshit, but he never suggested women should be shot. At least he has that much decency. All of sports? I can think of a few that could rival them.;) :lol:

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:50 AM
I do not have a problem with the remarks Stich is actually quoted to have made.

Ignore the title of the article, look at the actual quotes IN the article.

‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

"That’s what they sell .... they want to look good, they pay attention to their looks and everything."

First off, two quote in the entire article!?!? He had to have said more than that.

Second, putting aside the over-generalization, he's not wrong. Look at how much time top players put into photo shoots and magazine covers. And look at how many thread in forums like this one are about looks and clothes rather than tennis.

The sex appeal side show makes some of the women a LOT of money. It's no surprise they'd pay attention to it. Maria Kirilenko may have actually made more in photo shoots than she ever made as a singles player. She'd be stupid to ignore such a revenue stream.

He could have phrased it better, but don't blame Michael Stich for stating the obvious. All you same people jumping on Michael Stich now, why aren't you popping up objecting to the 'How is hotter?' threads, and 'Look at her Wimbledon outfit' thread?

Svetlana Kuznetsova is one hell of an athlete? Dinara Safina is one hell of an athlete? And they prove it on the court. Does the ancillary money on the sport flow to them? Or to far lesser players like Kirilenko and GOlovin and Wozniacki?

Don't get on Michael Stich fo voicing the same things you accept without arguement around here everyday. Bluntly, you look both stupid and hypocritical.

LightWarrior
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:53 AM
Federer doesn't care how he looks on court a

Oh yes he does...he always makes sure his outfit is well suited so we can see his sweet little ass, lol.

alwayshingis
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:57 AM
I do not have a problem with the remarks Stich is actually quoted to have made.

Stich, who beat Boris Becker to the 1991 title, also joked that the only way of stopping the grunting from women players such as Portuguese teenager Michelle Larcher De Brito was to ‘shoot them’.

Also, people are not complaining about WTA players being focused on their looks. Many of them are and there is no problem with this. People are complaining about how Stich is disparaging the women's game because of this. He tries to make the point that because they care what they look like, they are somehow lesser athletes or are less than the male players. That's where I take issue with it.

nelsondan
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:17 AM
I did a couple of searches...

1 - 10 of 12,700,000 for anna kournikova

1 - 10 of 4,190,000 for michael stich

He won Wimbledon in 1991---and he is not as important as a woman tennis player who has been sort of retired for years. And she never even won Wimbledon.

No wonder he is pissed.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:17 AM
he's right.....one word...kournikova!! but it's now becoming true on the men's tour as well with the way they pimp fed and especially shirtless rafa :shrug:

schorsch
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:21 AM
He just wants/needs publicity, because he's the tournament director of Hamburg, so he needs it.
It's already been downgraded and even moved after Wimbledon, so there's a change from grass to clay again instead of it being during the clay season as always. The tournament is in debt, they lost in court against the ATP which brought up further costs and he failed getting a lot of good sponsors. He also got a private betting sponsor as one of the main sponsors, but maybe the city Hamburg won't allow him to go through with it.

So... even though we should be pissed at his comments and all it's best we just ignore him, because it's pathetic that he's got to say these things only to get publicity for his own tournament, so lets not give him that :shrug:

faboozadoo15
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:32 AM
He's beyond pathetic. What an asshole. :rolleyes: Desperate attempt to keep his name in the papers. He has something to say about the women every year...

If there isn't great tennis from the women at Wimbledon this year, commentators, ex players, papers will be so quick to criticize the state of the women's game (since there isn't a Rafa/Fed rematch to write about for 2 weeks).

Step it up, ladies! ;)


:tape: Serena's comment.

Melly Flew Us
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:32 AM
I do not have a problem with the remarks Stich is actually quoted to have made.... He could have phrased it better, but don't blame Michael Stich for stating the obvious. All you same people jumping on Michael Stich now, why aren't you popping up objecting to the 'How is hotter?' threads, and 'Look at her Wimbledon outfit' thread? ... Don't get on Michael Stich fo voicing the same things you accept without arguement around here everyday. Bluntly, you look both stupid and hypocritical.
stich has always been a dick.

and fascination with appearance does not equate to sexual attraction or objectification; that sort of thinking is tantamount to saying that any woman in a mini skirt is ready and willing to spread her legs even if her mouth is screaming no.

Midnight_Robber
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:34 AM
I'm with AlwaysHingis.

Stich is a giant hypocrite. The men don't pay attention to looks which makes *them* serious athletes? Oh really?

What about Bjorn and his now iconic headband and socks, Mac and the afro, Agassi and the mullet and awful spandex, people raving about how cute Boris was with his red hair and flambouyant tees, people actually following the fortunes of Marat's latest haircut, Rafa and the piratas and sleeveless tops and all the fuss about the new Nike look, Federer and his bloody ridiculous lopsided cardigans :rolleyes: and his gold monogrammed shoes, the recent overhaul of Andy Murray's image, not to mention all those fashion shoots of Roger and Rafa...

Yeah, nobody cares about looks regarding the men which is why Radek Stepanek is referred to in such glowing terms and why people concentrate more on his tennis than his looks. Look at Marat Safin - sure he's talented but if you think the way that he looks has nothing to do with his following, you're out of your mind.

What the hell is Stich ON about anyway?

He could have phrased it better

Hmmm - by not suggesting that women be shot perhaps? :rolleyes: Fact of the matter is he isn't even interested in constructing an intelligent, legitimate argument about how the over-emphasis on 'sex appeal' and appearance is affecting the women's game. He's just another boring 'shock jock' ala Gimelstob trying to get attention by being as 'controversial' as possible. :yawn:

Patrick345
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:37 AM
I did a couple of searches...

1 - 10 of 12,700,000 for anna kournikova

1 - 10 of 4,190,000 for michael stich

He won Wimbledon in 1991---and he is not as important as a woman tennis player who has been sort of retired for years. And she never even won Wimbledon.

No wonder he is pissed.

Didn´t you just make his point? :confused:

Kournikova never won a freaking tournament in her life, but who was the postergirl of the WTA tour?

Certainly not the best choice of words, but he´s right.

1. The WTA does sell sex. WTAworld has more hugging posts and topics about looks and dresses than actual tennis game analysis.

2. You simply cannot stop the grunting short of shooting the girls. If 60% of the girls grunt, do you think we´ll see roughly 70 matches at a GS end in a DQ?

Noctis
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:38 AM
I Booed him In the Liverpool Exhibition He pointed at me with a fist :spit:
What a idiot

Renalicious
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:48 AM
are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour.

LOL. 100% true. :worship:

Sharapower
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:35 AM
Someone please shoot Stitch in da balls...

hingisGOAT
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:39 AM
The men's game is similar... I love to watch Del Pony and Tsonga for their sex appeal as much as their forehands :drool:

Lunaris
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:46 AM
He is right obviously. Anyone denying it lives in delusion. The most visited threads on this forum are the ones with pictures. Swimsuit was a real deal here, many posters have "off-court" avatars and banners, we have plenty of who's the hottest player threads while game related threads are quite rare. No need to mention Kournikova who is more famous than many multiple slam champs and world number ones, Sharapova is known mainly for her looks too. Kirilenko's one of the most famous players despite her zero on court success. Pointless threads about outfits plaguing the GM etc etc.

Like it or not, women's tennis is as much about sport as about selling sex. Kudos to Stich for having the balls to say that. From what I remember many female players are aware of it since they openely admitted it. Just like Serena.

mckyle.
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:50 AM
I disagree that women's tennis players are only there for their sex appeal. I disagree because the majority of the WTA Tour's fan base is gay men.

Slutiana
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:55 AM
I do not have a problem with the remarks Stich is actually quoted to have made.

Ignore the title of the article, look at the actual quotes IN the article.

‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

"That’s what they sell .... they want to look good, they pay attention to their looks and everything."

First off, two quote inthe entire article!?!? He had to have said more than that.

Second, putting aside the over-generalization, he's not wrong. Look at how much time top players put into photo shoots and magazine covers. And look at how many thread in forums like this one are about looks and clothes rather than tennis.

The sex appeak side show makes some of the women a LOT of money. It's no surprise they'd pay attention to it. Maria Kirilenk may have actually made more in photo shoots than she ever made as a singles player. She'd be stupid to ignore such a revenue stream.

He could have phrased it better, but don't blame Michael Stich for stating the obvious. All you same people jumping on Michael Stich now, why aren't you popping up objecting to the 'How is hotter?' threads, and 'Look at her Wimbledon outfit' thread?

Svetlana Kuznetsova is one hell of an athlete? Dinara Safina is one hell of an athlete? And they prove it on the court. Does the ancillary money on the sport flow to them? Or to far lesser players like Kirilenko and GOlovin and Wozniacki?

Don't get on Michael Stich fo voicing the same things you accept without arguement around here everyday. Bluntly, you look both stupid and hypocritical.

OI! Far lesser? You're one of the best posters on here, surely you must know that is wrong. :o :hysteric: I'd love to argue for Kiri too, but with her sitting outside of the top 50, its a losing battle :tape:

faboozadoo15
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:55 AM
I'll remember this when I see Verdasco put his sleeping mask on and spending an hour on his hair and dress before a match... or posing nude on top of a building...

It goes both ways. There are many men who have better contracts and exposure for their looks than better-ranked counterparts. Feliciano Lopez (who?), anyone?

And many of the men grunt just as loud as the loudest women. The pitch is the only difference. Youtube some Gustavo Kuerten or Nadal if you don't believe.

Stich can just STFU. No one wants to buy the shit he's selling, least of all, sex!

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:03 AM
Also, people are not complaining about WTA players being focused on their looks. Many of them are and there is no problem with this. People are complaining about how Stich is disparaging the women's game because of this. He tries to make the point that because they care what they look like, they are somehow lesser athletes or are less than the male players. That's where I take issue with it.Hmmmm.. I'm not sure your attribution to Stich is accurate, but you do make a interesting differential.
I think, rather, his point is that lesser athletes acheive fame on the WTA tour BECAUSE of what they look like, not because most of them care. What, on the court, have Golovin or Kirilenko or Kournikova before them accomplished on the court? Their fame, their money, is all about sex appeal, not athletics.

It's not, (and I, like you, am trying to read Stich's mnd here) that ALL women tennis players are lesser athletes in mind and heart and sould and determination. He's making the point that women's tennis rewards sex appeal over talent and accomplishment. And it does.

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:09 AM
OI! Far lesser? You're one of the best posters on here, surely you must know that is wrong. Forgive me if I mis-stated things.

I was trying to say that Kirilenko and Wozniacki and Golovin were far lesser players than Kuznetsova and Safina. You know, a multi-slam winner; the current French OPen champ, and the current #1 ranked player, vs three players who've collectively never even sniffed the top ten, much less a slam final.

EDIT: Wozniacki is ranked #9 as of June 8th, 2009. It was a line that rolled trippingly off the tongue err .. fingers, but factually incorrect. And it was all going so well. (thank you Slammer7)

I thought 'far lesser' was, well, being gentle.

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:24 AM
He is right obviously. Anyone denying it lives in delusion. The most visited threads on this forum are the ones with pictures. Swimsuit was a real deal here, many posters have "off-court" avatars and banners, we have plenty of who's the hottest player threads while game related threads are quite rare. No need to mention Kournikova who is more famous than many multiple slam champs and world number ones, Sharapova is known mainly for her looks too. Kirilenko's one of the most famous players despite her zero on court success. Pointless threads about outfits plaguing the GM etc etc.

Like it or not, women's tennis is as much about sport as about selling sex. Kudos to Stich for having the balls to say that. From what I remember many female players are aware of it since they openely admitted it. Just like Serena.

Oh so you agree women should be shot to stop them from grunting.:confused:

Forgive me if I mis-stated things.

I was trying to say that Kirilenko and Wozniacki and Golovin were far lesser players than Kuznetsova and Safina. You know, a multi-slam winner; the current French OPen champ, and the current #1 ranked player, vs three players who've collectively never even sniffed the top ten, much less a slam final.

I thought 'far lesser' was, well, being gentle.

Wozniacki is in the top 10 you know. :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:30 AM
Oh this is nothing, its guys like im that run the WTA Tour and promote sex in tennis. How many times have we seen Anna hit and giggle??? It okay for a wta player to want to look good on court.

Sex sells! Which is why Maria was given a higer seed. her tits an ass are needed to sell tickets.

this is nothing new. It's not right how he thinks but a lot of men think just like he does. they rule the tourneys.

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:33 AM
Oh this is nothing, its guys like im that run the WTA Tour and promote sex in tennis. How many times have we seen Anna hit and giggle??? It okay for a wta player to want to look good on court.

Sex sells! it ruleas thea awta TENNIS. which is why Maria was given a higer seed. her tits an ass are needed to sell tickets.

this is nothing new. It's not right how he thinks but a lot of men think just like he does. they rule the tourneys.

Huh? :confused:

mckyle.
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:34 AM
And Stich is so irrelevant that I don't even know how to pronounce his last name :tears:
He won his only grand slam two weeks before I was born, for Christ's sake! :lol:

Patrick345
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:34 AM
Oh so you agree women should be shot to stop them from grunting.:confused:

Stich, who beat Boris Becker to the 1991 title, also joked that the only way of stopping the grunting from women players such as Portuguese teenager Michelle Larcher De Brito was to ‘shoot them’.

Read and comprehend. :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:35 AM
Tits And Ass, Sells Tickets. Wow. U Didn't Know?

Slammer7
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:36 AM
Stich, who beat Boris Becker to the 1991 title, also joked that the only way of stopping the grunting from women players such as Portuguese teenager Michelle Larcher De Brito was to ‘shoot them’.

Read and comprehend. :rolleyes:

Back at ya.;) Learn what sarcasm and irony are while your at it.:wavey:

Bayo
Jun 21st, 2009, 05:19 AM
I love to watch Del Pony for [his] sex appeal :drool:

I believe that's a first for me.

Xanadu11
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:08 AM
I'm so over these kind of comments.

Athletes are sexy, both men and women, because they have amazing bodies.

The problem is with the women its used as a way to dismiss what they do and reduce them to nothing but props.

I enjoy looking a players outfits. I enjoyed seeing Rafa in sleeveless shirt. However, at the end of the way when I am watching a match I couldn't give a toss about what they are wearing or what they look like.

Although Michael Stitch has made these comments, he is really the tip of the iceberg.

I mean Larry Scotts comments after Justine retired that 'he wouldn't lose sleep over it' certainly typify this attitude. Just because she wasn't some marketable babe she was irrelevant to him and his plans. I guess a year later, he might have realised that having a no.1 player for more then 2 mins is actually a good thing. It the Womens TENNIS Association after all, not the 'pretty girls running around in skirts pretending to play sport association'.

So the problem isn't just Michael Stitich and it's not really about the using of sex, it is really that it has become the overwhelming motive.

That said Michael Stitch can go fade back into irrelevancy.

gmokb
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:08 AM
If I am watching tennis for the players sex appeal I would watch ATP not WTA. I can see where Stich would watch for sex, he looks like a pervert.

duhcity
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:19 AM
No one's worse than Justin Gimelstob. And he still has his job.

Serenita
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:28 AM
http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/bethanie-mattek-sands-lead.jpg?w=500&h=536 (http://coedmagazine.com/2009/05/24/bethanie-mattek-sands-gallery/)

Stich has a point. We had 1 player who never won a tourny receiving millions becoz of her looks.
Sex sells it always will sell.

woosey
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:28 AM
i don't look for profundity in tennis players, that includes those named serena williams or michael stich.

Hazel
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:36 AM
Federer doesn't care how he looks on court and the girls should follow suit...

I can just imagine this guy jumping on court and emptying a colt 45 into MLB; one final haunting shriek and nothing left but shrill echoes and a crimson mist floating on the wind!

This is a real stitch!!!

Please, no one cares about his image and looks more than Federer! His hair, clothes, etc. He is often 'modelling' clothes in photo shoots and has Anna Wintour in his box loads of times! He is always checking his hair on court and dressing up at Wimbledon in his 'special' jacket etc. I love Federer so I'm not complaining. Glamour brings interest to the sport, but the women are no different to the men - look at Nadal in his tight pants and tops!

Dodoboy.
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:52 AM
Fed is the biggest metro in the men's game!

Serena puts it well 'Sex Sells' That's why our stars are making more money than the men :shrug: They are following our lead though espiecally the spanish male players!

veryborednow
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:57 AM
The problem is with the women its used as a way to dismiss what they do and reduce them to nothing but props.
Exactly. Sport + Sex = Sales. For men and women. It's no different. No one's criticized the Spanish players inability to go more than a few months without taking their kit off. How many women players have done nude photo shoots :confused:

http://www.popmonk.com/athletes/andy-roddick/andy-roddick-2b.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/rafael-nadal-shirtless_384x509.jpg

http://seanbugg.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/21/fernandoverdascocosmo.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/images/03_thaas_01.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OMLYyLC8HTo/SO5m0uuC-_I/AAAAAAAAN4E/6qRDKrG-m3c/s400/feliciano_lopez_desnudo.jpg

http://towleroad.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/07/danny_cipriani.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MEvj79wiUOg/SNpe4lALDTI/AAAAAAAACCM/jn9C_AAFaXI/s400/dg3.jpg

http://www.jsp.org/2005/02/14/frederic-michalak.jpg

http://frillr.com/files/images/David-Beckham.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/julietanawon/cristiano_ronaldo-1.jpg

Destiny
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:59 AM
If his on the bbc commentary team at all this is not acceptable i am soooo going to file a complaint and a half dick hole shouldn't even be associated with BBC AT ALL

cn ireland
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:00 AM
He's entitled to his opinion, but I (and many others) disagree 100% with him;)!

Patrick345
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:47 AM
Please, no one cares about his image and looks more than Federer! His hair, clothes, etc. He is often 'modelling' clothes in photo shoots and has Anna Wintour in his box loads of times! He is always checking his hair on court and dressing up at Wimbledon in his 'special' jacket etc. I love Federer so I'm not complaining. Glamour brings interest to the sport, but the women are no different to the men - look at Nadal in his tight pants and tops!

If Federer cared so much about looks he wouldn´t have married Mirka. :tape:

lynxy
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:48 AM
‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

It's odd that in all this melee, nobody has picked him up on this point! That's just his taste and I don't necessarily share it...
He should try making a woman moan and shriek. He might like it! Hell, even she might like it! ;)

Patrick345
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:53 AM
It's odd that in all this melee, nobody has picked him up on this point! That's just his taste and I don't necessarily share it...
He should try making a woman moan and shriek. He might like it! Hell, even she might like it! ;)

http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/U/G/HBUG1ShJ_Pxgen_r_311xA.jpg

I think he´s doing just fine. :drool:

Besides I think through his HIV foundation he has probably done more relevant things in the last 15 years than most of us.

Infiniti2001
Jun 21st, 2009, 12:22 PM
How come we never hear any past or present female tennis players criticizing their male counterparts? :shrug:

The Dawntreader
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:02 PM
"My career is actually more stellar than Stich's, so he can say whatever he pleases. I've never been over-dramatic in my whole career"


How true was that?

Stich is just a tennis legend wannabe anyway. He holds himself in such an esteem that everyone else finds laughable.

Plus he's a chauvinistic c**t.

Kart
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:17 PM
I don't really have a problem with what he's said.

Aside from the shooting comment which is out of line, the rest of it is the same as we hear every year around slam time. You either agree or you don't. There's nothing about Stich that means he is an expert on the women's game more than any other male player that had a good career.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone like Graf came out with these comments - would posters respond in the same way ? I know Martina N speaks up but she speaks almost too much nowadays - her words had lost some of their power through that IMHO.

LCS
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:20 PM
Epic Fail.

timafi
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:43 PM
there's grunting and then there's grunting and some have taken it to a whole new level to the point that fuckers like Stich can insult the players out there as nothing more than sexual objects and not athletes and not tennis players:shrug: :mad:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:07 PM
If Federer cared so much about looks he wouldn´t have married Mirka. :tape:

:o federer may care about his personal style, but that doesn't make him shallow like you and a lot of others who seem to think that because mirka isn't the next heidi or giselle that she's ugly...:weirdo:

but actually this response shows how right stich is in the comment...mirka is pretty, but she doesn't scream "blonde bombshell"...yet she's probably done as much in her career as kournikova but guess who got all the off court photoshoots....:rolleyes:

skanky~skanketta
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:13 PM
I do not have a problem with the remarks Stich is actually quoted to have made.

Ignore the title of the article, look at the actual quotes IN the article.

‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

"That’s what they sell .... they want to look good, they pay attention to their looks and everything."

First off, two quote in the entire article!?!? He had to have said more than that.

Second, putting aside the over-generalization, he's not wrong. Look at how much time top players put into photo shoots and magazine covers. And look at how many thread in forums like this one are about looks and clothes rather than tennis.

The sex appeal side show makes some of the women a LOT of money. It's no surprise they'd pay attention to it. Maria Kirilenko may have actually made more in photo shoots than she ever made as a singles player. She'd be stupid to ignore such a revenue stream.

He could have phrased it better, but don't blame Michael Stich for stating the obvious. All you same people jumping on Michael Stich now, why aren't you popping up objecting to the 'How is hotter?' threads, and 'Look at her Wimbledon outfit' thread?

Svetlana Kuznetsova is one hell of an athlete? Dinara Safina is one hell of an athlete? And they prove it on the court. Does the ancillary money on the sport flow to them? Or to far lesser players like Kirilenko and GOlovin and Wozniacki?

Don't get on Michael Stich fo voicing the same things you accept without arguement around here everyday. Bluntly, you look both stupid and hypocritical.
While I regard you very highly as a poster here on WTAworld, I disagree with you here. Women do sell sex, this is true. But you cannot deny the fact that they are dedicated to their careers as well. Stich makes it sound as though they're worthless objects and that the grunting and heading off to photoshoots is something that only the women do.

Fact is there's absolutely no difference from the ATP. They sell sex just as much as women do and the ATP world #1's grunt rivals Sharapova's. As for the fashion element, well, the women want to look playing. This is relevant to the corporate world as well. No lady is gonna go to work dressed unflatteringly if they can help it. Besides, the men are just as vain and just as obssessed with fashion. Look at Nadal's clothes or even Federer's Wimbledon getups. Hell, look at the semi backless shirt that Hrbaty wore a few years ago!

While he is not blatantly saying that the women are wrong for doing so, he certainly implies it, making the women come across as unprofessional. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

As for posters in here going on about what the girls are wearing and who looks hotter in a bikini, well, they're totally for it. But I'm sure you know as well as I do that all that goes out of the window the minute the matches are on. When the games are played and winning/reputation/rivalry/legacy/results are on the line, almost all the posters couldn't care less who's gonna be on the next cover of Sports Illustrated.

Marilyn Monheaux
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:13 PM
Stich is an idiot! What else is new?

are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour.

No way!:speakles:
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/jdamayo/4816_90364419940_64760994940_181111.jpg

Matt01
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM
Plus he's a chauvinistic c**t.


I agree.

Slutiana
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:18 PM
Forgive me if I mis-stated things.

I was trying to say that Kirilenko and Wozniacki and Golovin were far lesser players than Kuznetsova and Safina. You know, a multi-slam winner; the current French OPen champ, and the current #1 ranked player, vs three players who've collectively never even sniffed the top ten, much less a slam final.

EDIT: Wozniacki is ranked #9 as of June 8th, 2009. It was a line that rolled trippingly off the tongue err .. fingers, but factually incorrect. And it was all going so well. (thank you Slammer7)

I thought 'far lesser' was, well, being gentle.
Shes still as amaze a player as them. :tears: Shame she was never able to achieve as much has them. :hysteric:

spice_of_life
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:20 PM
Sitch is right. Just look at the latest edition of ESPN Magainze with Sharapova on the cover.

youizahoe
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:22 PM
Michael Stich is he the dumb ass that said his career was bigger than serena's in 2005? :tape:

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:23 PM
While I regard you very highly as a poster here on WTAworld, I disagree with you here. Women do sell sex, this is true. But you cannot deny the fact that they are dedicated to their careers as well. Stich makes it sound as though they're worthless objects and that the grunting and heading off to photoshoots is something that only the women do.

Fact is there's absolutely no difference from the ATP. They sell sex just as much as women do and the ATP world #1's grunt rivals Sharapova's. As for the fashion element, well, the women want to look playing. This is relevant to the corporate world as well. No lady is gonna go to work dressed unflatteringly if they can help it. Besides, the men are just as vain and just as obssessed with fashion. Look at Nadal's clothes or even Federer's Wimbledon getups. Hell, look at the semi backless shirt that Hrbaty wore a few years ago!

While he is not blatantly saying that the women are wrong for doing so, he certainly implies it, making the women come across as unprofessional. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

As for posters in here going on about what the girls are wearing and who looks hotter in a bikini, well, they're totally for it. But I'm sure you know as well as I do that all that goes out of the window the minute the matches are on. When the games are played and winning/reputation/rivalry/legacy/results are on the line, almost all the posters couldn't care less who's gonna be on the next cover of Sports Illustrated.

i agree with this...but unfortunately, whereas the posters aren't, the sponsors ARE looking for who's going to be on the next cover of sports illustrated and FHM :shrug: it's not necessarily right but it's what happens...otherwise kirilenko shouldn't even be payed attention to since she does nothing on court, kournikova did nothing...but a whole lot of their total lifetime earnings comes from modelling bikinis as opposed to winning/reputation/rivalry/legacy/results....

youizahoe
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:31 PM
i agree with this...but unfortunately, whereas the posters aren't, the sponsors ARE looking for who's going to be on the next cover of sports illustrated and FHM :shrug: it's not necessarily right but it's what happens...otherwise kirilenko shouldn't even be payed attention to since she does nothing on court, kournikova did nothing...but a whole lot of their total lifetime earnings comes from modelling bikinis as opposed to winning/reputation/rivalry/legacy/results....

Well it's double sided, I think if Kirilenko was not placed into the spotlight by her beauty she'd be focused more on winning, I think beautyness drag the results down, since they start thinking, if tennis doesn't work, I'll have modelling. While most tennis players think, it's tennis, I have to make it.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:37 PM
Well it's double sided, I think if Kirilenko was not placed into the spotlight by her beauty she'd be focused more on winning, I think beautyness drag the results down, since they start thinking, if tennis doesn't work, I'll have modelling. While most tennis players think, it's tennis, I have to make it.

while that can be true...venus/serena/maria haven't stopped winning because they obviously have the means to survive if tennis came to a halt today :shrug: but the point is that results are only necessary in the eyes of fans (and for the same serena/maria in preserving those multi - million dollar contracts with nike)...it was usually you had to have made it in tennis to even get noticed, but now if you're pretty enough they take you up regardless :shrug:

Nikkiri
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:38 PM
Kirilenko has 5 titles, yes they may not be big titles but to say she has done nothing on court is a little unfair. She was also 3 games away from a GS QF.

skanky~skanketta
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:43 PM
i agree with this...but unfortunately, whereas the posters aren't, the sponsors ARE looking for who's going to be on the next cover of sports illustrated and FHM :shrug: it's not necessarily right but it's what happens...otherwise kirilenko shouldn't even be payed attention to since she does nothing on court, kournikova did nothing...but a whole lot of their total lifetime earnings comes from modelling bikinis as opposed to winning/reputation/rivalry/legacy/results....


True, but I was defending the posters in here. Almost every player would love to be in the limelight in terms of glamor. For higher ranked stars, it may be to show people that they're not simply workers on court, but that they have appeal (e.g Graf and SI). For lower ranked players such as Kirilenko, well, props to her for being able to nab contracts. At the end of the day, they all want to make money. Safina/Sveta play their guts out because they have the talent. Kirilenko/Harkleroad pales in comparison to them, so she uses modelling to make money.

Also, modelling is far more lucrative. Look at Tiger Woods. Yes, he has indeed won everything, but most of his money has come from endorsements.

And in Kournikova's defense, just because she did not win a title does not mean she did nothing. There are many other players out there who are as stunning as she is but have not come close in terms of her bankability simply because they did not achieve the same amount of success on court as she did. I mean, this is a former top 10 player/#1 doubles player we're talking about. The fact that she spent a lot more time on court compared to a lot of other girls (e.g. Olga Barabanschikova) allowed her to get those endorsements in the first place.

Dav.
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:50 PM
Volcana, Golovin didn't reach her potential because of injuries, not distractions. Her career ended at 19. Even with the other countless injuries by then, she was still on her way to a great career. She actually reached her career-high ranking (12) not long before her last match.

Libertango
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:52 PM
Hmm...Stich is a total asshole. But when Maria K. (for example) is half-naked on a beach, you can understand why stupid people will say this kind of stuff. Of course, when the Spanish guys posed nude for some magazine, no-one said it was because sex sells (mens) tennis - but this is a world where womens global roll still seems to be just that; and that's why idiots like Michael Dick say this kind of thing.

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:52 PM
Kirilenko has 5 titles, yes they may not be big titles but to say she has done nothing on court is a little unfair. She was also 3 games away from a GS QF.

5 titles i guess amounts to something :p but it usually took winning big (maria @ wimbledon) to get the sort of deals that every pretty player gets now...probably not worth as much but still

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:53 PM
True, but I was defending the posters in here. Almost every player would love to be in the limelight in terms of glamor. For higher ranked stars, it may be to show people that they're not simply workers on court, but that they have appeal (e.g Graf and SI). For lower ranked players such as Kirilenko, well, props to her for being able to nab contracts. At the end of the day, they all want to make money. Safina/Sveta play their guts out because they have the talent. Kirilenko/Harkleroad pales in comparison to them, so she uses modelling to make money.

Also, modelling is far more lucrative. Look at Tiger Woods. Yes, he has indeed won everything, but most of his money has come from endorsements.

And in Kournikova's defense, just because she did not win a title does not mean she did nothing. There are many other players out there who are as stunning as she is but have not come close in terms of her bankability simply because they did not achieve the same amount of success on court as she did. I mean, this is a former top 10 player/#1 doubles player we're talking about. The fact that she spent a lot more time on court compared to a lot of other girls (e.g. Olga Barabanschikova) allowed her to get those endorsements in the first place.


this will probably prove your point..but who?? :lol:

skanky~skanketta
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:57 PM
this will probably prove your point..but who?? :lol:
Some hot chick back in the late 90s :lol:

Sir Stefwhit
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:18 PM
he's right.....one word...kournikova!! but it's now becoming true on the men's tour as well with the way they pimp fed and especially shirtless rafa :shrug:FedTard and sex appeal? I just threw-up a little in my mouth.... You sure about that one dear daughter?

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:23 PM
FedTard and sex appeal? I just threw-up a little in my mouth.... You sure about that one dear daughter?

yes...federer and nadal have sex appeal, but different kinds :p

rafa has the raw, savage sex appeal where he looks like you'd take him for 5 rds in the sack :drool: (i'm allowed to dream :angel: ) lol

federer has a classic looking sex appeal which looks like he would be all about the romance, "romantic novel" type dinner, roses, flowers on bed what's not :lol:


point is that they are both marketed with the same intentions as the market the women :p sex

youizahoe
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:28 PM
while that can be true...venus/serena/maria haven't stopped winning because they obviously have the means to survive if tennis came to a halt today :shrug: but the point is that results are only necessary in the eyes of fans (and for the same serena/maria in preserving those multi - million dollar contracts with nike)...it was usually you had to have made it in tennis to even get noticed, but now if you're pretty enough they take you up regardless :shrug:

Yeah but that's different, Maria/Venus/Serena were very poor, Kirilenko doesn't come out of a poor family, so that's hard to compare. Venus, Serena and Maria had to place all on all to make in tennis to get a better standard in life. Their background and will to fight is entirely different, simply because of that.

Also Maria for example was a slam winner before she became a marketing machine, just like Serena and Venus. While Kirilenko was already a babe before she won her first wta match.

True these days they see players as goods not people, they even manipulate you, but it's up to your familly and management team to protect you against it.

freeyourstyle
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:37 PM
Hmm...Stich is a total asshole. But when Maria K. (for example) is half-naked on a beach, you can understand why stupid people will say this kind of stuff. Of course, when the Spanish guys posed nude for some magazine, no-one said it was because sex sells (mens) tennis - but this is a world where womens global roll still seems to be just that; and that's why idiots like Michael Dick say this kind of thing.


i agree, 100% true

raymondtehcc
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:49 PM
yes...federer and nadal have sex appeal, but different kinds :p

rafa has the raw, savage sex appeal where he looks like you'd take him for 5 rds in the sack :drool: (i'm allowed to dream :angel: ) lol

federer has a classic looking sex appeal which looks like he would be all about the romance, "romantic novel" type dinner, roses, flowers on bed what's not :lol:


point is that they are both marketed with the same intentions as the market the women :p sex
These points makes Nadal's girl friend and Roger' wife both are the happiness women in the world.

JackFrost
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:57 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/20/article-1194452-00465CD000000258-929_233x393.jpg
He said: ‘Just play it back to the women. It sounds disgusting, ugly, unsexy!’

Looking at that picture I think he discribed himself. :lol:

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:21 PM
Volcana, Golovin didn't reach her potential because of injuries, not distractions.I in no way meant to imply that Golovin's off-court activities had any negative impact on her career. Rather, my point was that her off-court activities were not reflective of her oncourt achievments.

Outside of Serena Williams, there's no active player who's off-court opportunities are truly reflective of the oncourt success. In the Open Era, probably the only three are Serena, Chris Evert and Monica Seles. Pre-Open, Suzanne Lenglen, Maureen Connolly ....

Fans of Venus, Maria Sharapova, Ana Ivanovic and Gabriella Sabatini have probably just decided I'm out of my mind, but hear me out.

Suppose we existed in a parallel universe where off-court opportunities were achieved in proportion to oncoourt success. The best player gets the most cheese. How often is that true?

Even the most subjective observer couldn't argue that there were more than two years where Venus Williams was the best player on the tour. So who got the most 'cheese' those years? Anna Kournikova. Justine Henin?

Maria Sharapova may have been, at some point, the best player on the tour. That's hard to say though, if you don't think the ranking system reflects who's best, which I don't. When was Sharapova better and Serena AND Justine Henin? But she sure gets the side contracts.

My point being, women's tennis reward sex more than it does oncourt accomplishment. Michael Stich could have been more artful in his comments. But that's not the same thing as wrong.

irma
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:24 PM
lots of young girls/women were drooling over Andre in the early nineties, and he earned lots of money because of that. Of course he was still a very good player (except in slam finals till wimbledon 92) but he would not have made that kind of money in endorsements without his rebel sexy imago and those puppy eyes.

mariahdg
Jun 21st, 2009, 04:29 PM
another cheap article was covered under the Politically incorrect abuse.

This is not the era that public will buy what any person was entitle an expert spits out.

Inktrailer
Jun 21st, 2009, 05:27 PM
IT's bullshit, the article says that when challenged that women want to play tennis as best they can rather than be sexy, he says "that's what they sell".

Whoever offers the players modelling opportunities, photo shoots, whatever, is always going to be based on looks - and as has already been pointed out, the male players do exactly the same and have shown more - the fact is that primarily these people are tennis players. Yes they want to look good, as do the men, but they work hard and tour a lot to try and be the best they can be. For this dickhead - goatee beard and dyed hair noted - to dismiss that work and the effort that the players put in in shameful.

On the plus side, why should anyone give a fuck about his opinion, or those of anyone else who doesn't actually follow the WTA? The fact that the womens grunting isn't sexy and he takes that as a negative says more about him than the girls.

denibas77
Jun 21st, 2009, 05:31 PM
:o federer may care about his personal style, but that doesn't make him shallow like you and a lot of others who seem to think that because mirka isn't the next heidi or giselle that she's ugly...:weirdo:

but actually this response shows how right stich is in the comment...mirka is pretty, but she doesn't scream "blonde bombshell"...yet she's probably done as much in her career as kournikova but guess who got all the off court photoshoots....:rolleyes:
are you serious compering Mirka and Anna ,you should check their results,Mirka was highest 76 Anna top 10 we never remembered Mirka if she didn't become Roger girlfriend one thing they have similar is their fake injuries that they made up to retire.

matty
Jun 21st, 2009, 05:56 PM
He's just being honest. If there wasn't some truth to it, why is the WTA or whoever always having the "girls" put on evening gowns and a bunch of make-up and doing those fancy (sexy) photo shoots. I mean, look at the one for Wimbledon...If that isn't selling the players 'sex appeal", I don't know what is.

Example:http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Gallery/0,,12781~1696147,00.html?imageNo=4#picture

Inktrailer
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:09 PM
He's just being honest. If there wasn't some truth to it, why is the WTA or whoever always having the "girls" put on evening gowns and a bunch of make-up and doing those fancy (sexy) photo shoots. I mean, look at the one for Wimbledon...If that isn't selling the players 'sex appeal", I don't know what is.

Example:http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/page/Gallery/0,,12781~1696147,00.html?imageNo=4#picture

Well those were taken during the players party so it's quite normal for them to be dressed up.

But no he isn't just being honest, because all of that is secondary to their tennis careers, which is what people dismiss and say they're just there to pose. Look at the players in that photo and you'll see people who have worked hard this year touring and playing in tournaments, that's what they do first and foremost, and THAT'S what they sell. The rest is just filler.

*hingis_forever*
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:13 PM
Stich is an idiot, but what made me laugh is when Serena said she's not one of the loudest grunters! :lol: Yeah right!

matty
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:16 PM
Well those were taken during the players party so it's quite normal for them to be dressed up.

But no he isn't just being honest, because all of that is secondary to their tennis careers, which is what people dismiss and say they're just there to pose. Look at the players in that photo and you'll see people who have worked hard this year touring and playing in tournaments, that's what they do first and foremost, and THAT'S what they sell. The rest is just filler.

He is being honest. There's a difference between being honest and being accurate. That's just his opinion...why would he lie?

I don't necessarily agree with him, but I do believe that sex sells, and that the players take certain modeling assignments for money and I most certainly think that the WTA glams up the girls to make the sport more popular.

Yep, they do dress up for the players party and their outfits all kinda match becasue stylist helped pick them out. This was a carefully orchestrated photoshoot. Call it glamour or whatever, but the WTA had definitely been trying to sell something.

Anyway, I lean towards feminism and totally respect these women as atheletes, but we all have our price.

Inktrailer
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:20 PM
He is being honest. There's a difference between being honest and being accurate. That's just his opinion..why would he lie?

I don't necessarily agree with him, but I do believe that sex sells, and the players take certain modeling assignments for money and I most certainly think that the WTA glams up the girls to make the sport more popular.

OF course, sex sells but the point is he's suggesting that's what the women players are there for and it isn't; they're tennis players and regardless of whether they do photo shoots or not, they're still tennis players who deserve more respect than 'they're just there because they look pretty'.

Marshmallow
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:26 PM
Women tennis players DO NOT sell Sex!!!

Women tennis players sell TENNIS or at least they try to. The problem is, in a patriachal feild such as sport (and really this spans every business just about), the mostly male consumer market combined with the mostly male puppet masters coerce women to sell sex with money and demand it - when THEY go about setting coventions such as dress codes and who they use to sponsor products.

Anna Kournikova becomes the scapegoat but remember Anna didn't go out and beg for sports illustrated and other organisations to come to her, THEY went to her and offered her money. THEY could have gone after the most success women at the time, but THEY did not.

What bothers me about Stick's comments are that they not only maintain this sexist system, they perpetuated it. HE IS CRITICISZING WOMEN FOR NOT BEING SEXY ENOUGH!!!! He becomes sexism personnified and an apathetic response to his comments basically becomes YOU folks giving sexism the A OK!!!! He needs to be tied to a truck by his testicles and dragged along a rugged mountain side, and his remains displayed by the women's institute.

Okay, maybe not that - but his views must be called out and challenged. Some of the posts in this thread are really disappointing. Women tennis players and women as a whole want to be taken seriously and just accepting his views doesn't help matters. You SHOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM IF YOU WANT TO REALLY SUPPORT THE TOUR :fiery: (okay to each his own :D).

BTW - Federer and some others have become fashion icons in a way, but it's no coincidence their added success has coincided with the rise of meterosexuality and increased concern for masculine materialism symbols. If the system desired Federer/Djokovic, Schwank :drool:, Robredo, Verdasco, Kiefer, Roddick, Gonzalez :drool: or whomever appear in Playgirl more often and Cosmopolitan centrefold issues... maybe things would be more balanced, but the demand isn't there so they aren't bribed as much.

SvetaPleaseWin.
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:43 PM
seriously, has he looked at women tennis players...not much to look at. the majority aint that pretty, they definitely arent selling sex to me

BuTtErFrEnA
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:45 PM
are you serious compering Mirka and Anna ,you should check their results,Mirka was highest 76 Anna top 10 we never remembered Mirka if she didn't become Roger girlfriend one thing they have similar is their fake injuries that they made up to retire.

bla bla bla bla top 10...show me a title(s) that anna won to prove her on court worth....and since this forum likes to ignore doubles titles in a player's career then anna did nothing...lindsay did even more than her but guess who STILL gets the most off court, why? mirka and anna did the same thing: nothing...getting to top 10 without a title means you a consistent enough but still to sucky to pull off a big win...

fact is the results don't matter as much in the corporate world (outside of your clothing sponsors) since all people see is the pretty face....

samn
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:59 PM
It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone like Graf came out with these comments - would posters respond in the same way ?

No, it'd have to be someone else. If Graf made comments about how women's tennis sells sex, they'd wave her SI Swimsuit photos in her face and call her out for being a big fat hypocrite. For such comments to have some weight, it'd have to be someone who did not capitalise on that sort of thing. <thinking> Jennifer Capriati?

Apoleb
Jun 21st, 2009, 07:04 PM
Women tennis players sell TENNIS or at least they try to. The problem is, in a patriachal feild such as sport (and really this spans every business just about), the mostly male consumer market combined with the mostly male puppet masters coerce women to sell sex with money and demand it - when THEY go about setting coventions such as dress codes and who they use to sponsor products.



No, they do not "coerce" them (word too strong). If the women and the WTA cared enough, they can project the image they want to project, but apparently they don't have a lot of problem in USING the sexist system to their own advantage, if the price is more money. Serena's quote is certainly evidence of that. In many ways, that attitude also helps propagate that system.

Of course I do not agree with Stich's comments and I think they're horrible, but I think reality is in between your view and his (definitely more swayed to yours). Stich is wrong to completely associate the WTA with sex, but also the women are not 'forced' to propagate the image they do, and they do play role in keeping that system going on.

nevetssllim
Jun 21st, 2009, 07:15 PM
Stich says that he wants to shoot De Brito.

I want to shoot Stich.

denibas77
Jun 21st, 2009, 07:17 PM
bla bla bla bla top 10...show me a title(s) that anna won to prove her on court worth....and since this forum likes to ignore doubles titles in a player's career then anna did nothing...lindsay did even more than her but guess who STILL gets the most off court, why? mirka and anna did the same thing: nothing...getting to top 10 without a title means you a consistent enough but still to sucky to pull off a big win...
fact is the results don't matter as much in the corporate world (outside of your clothing sponsors) since all people see is the pretty face....
but I agree with you that Anna was bad but Mirka was triple worst so don't compare them:p

Marshmallow
Jun 21st, 2009, 08:33 PM
No, they do not "coerce" them (word too strong). If the women and the WTA cared enough, they can project the image they want to project, but apparently they don't have a lot of problem in USING the sexist system to their own advantage, if the price is more money. Serena's quote is certainly evidence of that. In many ways, that attitude also helps propagate that system.

Of course I do not agree with Stich's comments and I think they're horrible, but I think reality is in between your view and his (definitely more swayed to yours). Stich is wrong to completely associate the WTA with sex, but also the women are not 'forced' to propagate the image they do, and they do play role in keeping that system going on.

But this is where these inequality maintenance systems are so effective and difficult to change; the incentives are hard to resist. In effect the women are being asked to opt out of the system. In reality, how many people are going to say no to extra cash for easy work? It doesn't look like the male players would opt out either if Verdasco, Robredo, Moya, Lopez and Rafter are anything to go by. There is active participation in the system, but I cut the women slack because how many people in their positions would act differently? Hard for me to see the blame as 50/50.

Basically penalizing and really just insulting women for not opting out - even though there isn't anything to say men would do differently... It's really annoying. Stich criticising grunting on the ground that it isn't sexy enough, as though women started grunting to add to their sex appeal... The women have never had that intention and so insulting them like that is just... well, that's why my language was strong throughout my post.

But w/e.

Volcana
Jun 21st, 2009, 09:42 PM
Women tennis players DO NOT sell Sex!!!It would be wrong to cheap shot you on this. So instead, I'll ask you to just look at your first sentence in isolation. And think of all the players we've seen in various magazines in bikinis. Or (ostensibly) naked on horses. There are posters on this forum who actually think what you make in offcourt advertising/sponosrship deals is some measure of tennis-playing ability!?!?!

Pick an athlete who gets his off-court revenue solely from his athletic accomplishements. Actually, that's tough to find. Michael Phelps (pre-bong.) is probably closest. Lance Armstrong. maybe. But an average looking woman in an ad campaign!?!? A woman not dressed to show off her body in an ad campaign? Hmmmm .. the Venus and Serena McDonald's ad a couple years back.

Henin did a fashion spread right after she retired, didn't she?

Vanity Bonfire
Jun 21st, 2009, 09:52 PM
Unfortunately, I think he's right.

There are some great athletes on tour - the WS, Dinara, Sveta, Caro - yet most people think of celebrities like Jankovic, Ivanovic and Sharapova who fill up crap magazines for couch potatoes. If you go out onto the street and say Svetlana Kuznetsova, you will probably only get blank looks and yet if you say Anna Kournikova, everyone will know who you mean.

Vanity Bonfire
Jun 21st, 2009, 09:58 PM
Oh crap - he's not right about the shooting them thing. He's an arsehole anyway.

Inktrailer
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:10 PM
Unfortunately, I think he's right.

There are some great athletes on tour - the WS, Dinara, Sveta, Caro - yet most people think of celebrities like Jankovic, Ivanovic and Sharapova who fill up crap magazines for couch potatoes. If you go out onto the street and say Svetlana Kuznetsova, you will probably only get blank looks and yet if you say Anna Kournikova, everyone will know who you mean.

True, but it's the same with the mens, or in most sports - the general non-watching public will only have heard of the players that the media choose to spotlight. It doesn't make the sport any less creditable or mean that the less 'glamourous' players aren't as good, or indeed that the players themselves aren't good at what they do. Ivanovic is a good tennis player for example, it doesn't mean it should be discounted just because she's also good looking, the same for Sharapova. Attitude's like Stich's are not right here.

canoe.
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:31 PM
Well it's certainly not PC but he absolutely correct. And a lot of these girls seem to think of themselves as pieces of ass rather than athletes anyway. Check out the get-ups they wear on court. If they were trying to be taken seriously as athletes they wouldn't wear the shit they wear. A lot these girls are such frauds!

partbrit
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:51 PM
I remember his making asinine comments about Serena. Someone like that is going to pop up now and then and say something unbelievably stupid. You can count on it. Thanks for the find.

partbrit
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:15 PM
Call it glamour or whatever, but the WTA had definitely been trying to sell something.
Anyway, I lean towards feminism and totally respect these women as athletes, but we all have our price.

I agree, Matty. The WTA has been selling sex for a while, and if everyone really does have a price, then several WTA players go for very cheap.

(I'm also a bit curious about your "leaning toward" social, political and economic equality for women.)

BartoliBabes
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:19 PM
Omfg hate mail grrrrr

Kart
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:33 PM
No, it'd have to be someone else. If Graf made comments about how women's tennis sells sex, they'd wave her SI Swimsuit photos in her face and call her out for being a big fat hypocrite. For such comments to have some weight, it'd have to be someone who did not capitalise on that sort of thing. <thinking> Jennifer Capriati?

Fair point about Steffi. I would say it's harsh to hold that SI shoot against her but on this board it seems nothing is out of bounds.

kiwifan
Jun 22nd, 2009, 03:31 AM
are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour. Thank you!!! :lol: I don't know what that poster was thinking...

...especially at Wimby, Fed tries hard to look "fly". :tape:

UncleZeke
Jun 22nd, 2009, 03:43 AM
Stich is an idiot.

miffedmax
Jun 22nd, 2009, 03:56 AM
are you kidding? federer is more of a diva with his appearence then 75% of the WTA tour.

True, but Federer is always (at least publicly) very politely respectful of women players, and I'll always give him credit for that.

I mean honestly, there are certainly some attractive girls on the tour, but if you want to just see pretty women, you have lots of options besides tennis. And no matter how attractive the women are, I won't watch women's sports if the level of competition isn't good enough to entertain me.

miffedmax
Jun 22nd, 2009, 04:07 AM
I in no way meant to imply that Golovin's off-court activities had any negative impact on her career. Rather, my point was that her off-court activities were not reflective of her oncourt achievments.

Outside of Serena Williams, there's no active player who's off-court opportunities are truly reflective of the oncourt success. In the Open Era, probably the only three are Serena, Chris Evert and Monica Seles. Pre-Open, Suzanne Lenglen, Maureen Connolly ....

Fans of Venus, Maria Sharapova, Ana Ivanovic and Gabriella Sabatini have probably just decided I'm out of my mind, but hear me out.

Suppose we existed in a parallel universe where off-court opportunities were achieved in proportion to oncoourt success. The best player gets the most cheese. How often is that true?

Even the most subjective observer couldn't argue that there were more than two years where Venus Williams was the best player on the tour. So who got the most 'cheese' those years? Anna Kournikova. Justine Henin?

Maria Sharapova may have been, at some point, the best player on the tour. That's hard to say though, if you don't think the ranking system reflects who's best, which I don't. When was Sharapova better and Serena AND Justine Henin? But she sure gets the side contracts.

My point being, women's tennis reward sex more than it does oncourt accomplishment. Michael Stich could have been more artful in his comments. But that's not the same thing as wrong.

By the same token, arguably the most famous male athlete in the world is an overage soccer player who, even as his peak, was never even close to being the best in the world. But he is very attractive and married to a pop star.

Sex sells and it cuts both ways. I'll admit that for men, it doesn't have the historical baggage that it does for women, but the fact is it's been that way forever and probably always will be that way. We like to see attractive people.

But that's the world of endorsements. On court, I just want to see good tennis, ATP or WTA.

nelsondan
Jun 22nd, 2009, 05:28 AM
Stich is an idiot.


Leave it to Sharapova to get it right---while ignoring Stich, she
offered a comment in an interview today that kind of shows he has it backwards.

Tennis is the driving force of my life, going out, competing and fighting. I couldn’t rely on others to get results in my life. When I am on the front of magazines, I got there because of winning tennis matches.”

Her 25 million a year is a bi product of what came first---success in playing tennis.

wujianwei
Jun 22nd, 2009, 05:33 AM
crazy·········

scheele
Jun 22nd, 2009, 08:18 AM
Cut him some slack. I mean, if he wasn't making flagrant attempts to keep his name in the media most tennis fans would probably completely forget he ever existed.

Lol very true!

StephenUK
Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:29 AM
I think what Stich is just speaking the truth, even if he is being tactless - I blame the tennis media.

Sports journalism is overwhelmingly male. In general, sports journalists belittle women's sport as a feeble version of the 'proper' male version - the only sportswomen they find acceptable are the babes. Just look at a newspaper like the Sun - women's sport gets ignored except for some articles about tennis babes. Remember Babsimania, invented by the Daily Mirror, when Anna Kournikova was out of Wimbledon?

I don't think it is any surprise that women's tennis is the most powerful sport because it is one of the few sports where women can look babe-like and feminine whilst being at the top of the game. What other sports do women wear dresses to play, for goodness sake? Even within tennis, it has been the case that being the top babe outranks being the No 1 in terms of endorsements and therefore overall money. Anna Kournikova is the case par excellence; Maria Sharapova is probably still earning more than Kuznetsova even though she has dropped out of the top 50. Women's tennis has always being about selling an idea of glamour and babedom - think back to Gussie Moran and even Suzanne Lenglen with her flapper outfit; who did Sony Ericsson pick for its phone ads a couple of years ago but Ivanovic and Hantuchova..

Marshmallow
Jun 22nd, 2009, 02:21 PM
It would be wrong to cheap shot you on this. So instead, I'll ask you to just look at your first sentence in isolation. And think of all the players we've seen in various magazines in bikinis. Or (ostensibly) naked on horses. There are posters on this forum who actually think what you make in offcourt advertising/sponosrship deals is some measure of tennis-playing ability!?!?!

Pick an athlete who gets his off-court revenue solely from his athletic accomplishements. Actually, that's tough to find. Michael Phelps (pre-bong.) is probably closest. Lance Armstrong. maybe. But an average looking woman in an ad campaign!?!? A woman not dressed to show off her body in an ad campaign? Hmmmm .. the Venus and Serena McDonald's ad a couple years back.

Henin did a fashion spread right after she retired, didn't she?

But that first sentence was building to somewhere, taking it in isolation and out of context takes away from how it was intended. In any case I with we are probably focused in different places. Your points seem to be pointing out that the marketing sex and sexuality machine is biased financially towards women and I don’t disagree there (Symptomatic). There are signs that this is changing somewhat… best example, easy example being David Beckham. http://www.splendicity.com/sheknowsbest/files/2008/01/david-beckham-emporio-armani-underwear.jpg I don’t even know what team he plays for anymore, but do know he has been participating in a number of provocative sexualised campaigns for underwear, aftershaves and some other stuff. He isn’t the first either, in recent years market people have finally started to realise women have sexuality too (and more specifically here that women want ment to look sexy too - and not just those old sociobiological ideas that women want men who are successful... Tiger wood and Federer type Rolex ads).

I was more focused on the causality and dynamics of why this is. I take issue with comments like those made by Stich and whomever because stating that women sell sex (as though by intention – with a derogatory tone) or like Stich criticizing them for diminishing this sexual potential, sort of transfers responsibility for the sex sells machine onto women unfairly. They didn’t create the machine alone and arguably played a lesser part in creating it. This isn’t limited to tennis players either, but spans most ventures that benefit from marketing.

But sticking with tennis, was how influential was Anna Kournikova in crafting the hype around her and attention to her looks, attention that could have been given to the ladies at the time who were actually winning titles? Who was more influential in lavishing praise, attention and multi million sponsorships on Sharapova (and sexualizing her grunts), while Henin and others were experiencing more success? Who was more influential in picking no names like bondarenko and Kirilenko for FHM spreads – when they don’t really have the success that merits such rewards?

So the point I was getting at was that women tennis players want to sell you tennis, want to do their Jobs, but whether they like it or not will have to deal with the sex selling machine that rewards stereotypical beauty or encourages sexualisation in marketing, more so than in ads involving male athletes. I don’t know about that Henin ad you’re referring to but did she tell the set managers – ‘I want to look like a sexpot’ or was she informed, they were going for a sexy look because that what readers want.

Marshmallow
Jun 22nd, 2009, 08:00 PM
Oh yeah and I forgot to say that Serena quote doesn't do anything justice. I saw her interview before I discover it was being used against her and she seemed to zone out of that interview towards the end, just saying whatever til it was over. I wonder if she knows how her words have been taken and used as evidence. hmmm...

fufuqifuqishahah
Jun 22nd, 2009, 08:10 PM
They sell drama. If they were just selling sex, more would be playing in bikinis and high heels.

ad-out
Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:02 PM
Just as an example that it goes both ways check out these responses to a couple of Marat Safin matches. Yes, he is a great champion but also a very hot guy who lots of girls would watch even if he lost 1st round every tourney (which he often does!)

From MTF:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25366006

By Steve Tignor, Tennis.com, updated 9:00 a.m. ET June 25, 2008

Court 11

At the back of the garden this year is Court 11. The bleachers are enclosed by a tent. In the past, this has been a dozey place. I’ve seen a whole row of fans fast asleep here during a match on a hot day. This was not the case on Monday, as Marat Safin played his first-rounder on Court 11. Half the people on the grounds, and all the women under 40, descended on these medium-size stands. I heard more than one group of girls trying to find "the court that Safin's playing on!" There was a rock-concert atmosphere during the match, and Safin didn’t disappoint, making the third-set against journeyman Fabio Fognini more dramatic than it needed to be.

Safin won in the end and seemed happy. But the smile didn’t last long. To get off the court, he had to run a gauntlet of autograph hounds and well-wishers and little girls and people who just wanted to be in his vicinity. You could see the irritation build, until Safin finally escaped with the beginnings of a scowl. The whole Safin Event, from match to mob to aftermath, had been fun to watch. Like a lot of places around here, it felt like the center of the tennis universe.

Miami 2009 fan report at Tennis Warehouse

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=3292019

Posted by Leublu Tennis:

"I don't know how many other tournaments you have been to, but this reminds me of Dubai and Munich. You are right down there with players. You bump into them as they go back and forth from practice. I must say that I am still embarrased for my reaction to Marat. I almost walked into him and just froze with my mouth open. And I am not a girl. Girls just go absolutely nuts in his presence. No rock star is bigger in their minds."

Posted by Miami Tiburon: