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View Full Version : Eastbourne Final: Caroline Wozniacki def. Virginie Razzano 7-6(5) 7-5


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kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:51 PM
Caro :worship::bounce::kiss::hearts:


Both top 10 and premier title at age 18.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:52 PM
Life isn't fair.

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Worst birthday present ever. :o

Virginie had SP in the 2nd!! :tape:

I counted about 4 winners from Caro. :tape:

Ellery
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Vigi :hug:

Steff_forever
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:53 PM
well done Caro, :woohoo:

right ahead of Wimby :yeah:

disco_rage
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Haha. Karma's a bitch Virginie.
Well done Caroline.

adner
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Pennetta loses her mickey mouse queen crown :(

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
man, I was nervous there at the end....

M.P
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Caro :woohoo:
2 nd title of the year

tea
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Yea!!! Caroline!:hearts:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
LOL @ our own Danish commentator saying that even she couldnt understand how Wozniacki actually wins so many matches, when its always her opponent who is doing everything. Jesus.
Glad to see some people have some sense. :bowdown:

Drimal
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Poor Virginie. She fought so hard in first set and had SP in 2nd set. :sad:

Congrats Caroline.

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM
LOL @ our own Danish commentator saying that even she couldnt understand how Wozniacki actually wins so many matches, when its always her opponent who is doing everything. Jesus.

Dexter
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Well played by both, congrats Caro on the title #5. :yeah:

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Match was in Virginie's hands.She'll regret all the opportunities she wasted.
Winner/ue :
Virginie 28/20
Caroline 16/18

AnomyBC
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:56 PM
YES!!!! :woohoo:

Is this the biggest title Caro has won so far? Which were the others?

Never mind, I checked.....

1. Stockholm '08
2. New Haven '08
3. Tokyo (Japan Open) '08
4. Ponte Vedra Beach '09
5. Eastbourne '09

Nice :)

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:56 PM
LOL @ our own Danish commentator saying that even she couldnt understand how Wozniacki actually wins so many matches, when its always her opponent who is doing everything. Jesus.

She didn't say that. Liar.

Libertango
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:57 PM
:woohoo:

So pleased for Caroline, BUT I think she was lucky. Virginie basically choked the 2nd set away. Led 40-0/AD at 3-3, had a SP at 5-4 and totalyl should have won that point; the story was how many opportunites did Virginie waste - she really seemed in control to me. Caro was so nervous at the end, and Razzano totally didn't take advantage.

Loved the exchange at 40-15 at 6-5 when Caro thought she'd won it with an ace; and I've really become a fan of Virginie these last few weeks.

Steff_forever
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM
Virgie: I'd like to congratulate... eeeeeeeehhhh

:lol:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM
She didn't say that. Liar.
:tape:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM
hahaha Virginie forgot Caroline's name during her speech!

"I'd like to say congratulations to... eeeh.... eeeh... *facepalm* Caroline!"

Kim's_fan_4ever
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
So happy for Caro :woohoo: You go girl :yeah:
Caro's reaction after almost hitting an ace on MP was priceless :rolls:

Iceland
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
Stats speak in favour of Virginie :lol:.

Well the match was close, Virginie plays badly at each crucial time. Caroline isn't top 10 for nothing after all. Yet the flaws are still there, a horrible FH, inability to dictate the game which made her make mistakes when she needed to finish off Razzano. The serve is really better though and this high percentage is a major advantage on grass.

Congrats to both girls on a good week! :D Lovely smile of Caroline!

olivero
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
Congrats Caro! Following Aga's footsteps once again ;)
I'm glad she took this title.

Virginie :awww: I love her game. Great year for her so far :hug:

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 12:59 PM
blahhh another tournament caro wins when the field is either non existent or tanks because theres more important things next week.

off topic - why the hell hasn't razzano ever been taught to take her racket back earlier. after about the 47th backhand she was late on i had rolled my eyes so much they were spinning in my head.

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:00 PM
She didn't say that. Liar.

Lol.. Are you even listening? She has said it twice now. Dont blame it on me!

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:00 PM
Title on

Clay - PVB
Hard - Tokyo, NEW HAVEN
Grass - Eastbourne

Amazing at #18, simply amazing! What a great competitorm and a wonderfully pleasant mature attitude ! Works very hard, humbled, beautiful and so warm! What's not to love, i love her so much!!

Great to see her take the title! If she continues to serve well and her groundies keep up the zip of early 1st set. She should still be in the UK in 1 week's time :yeah:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:01 PM
blahhh another tournament caro wins when the field is either non existent or tanks because theres more important things next week.

off topic - why the hell hasn't razzano ever been taught to take her racket back earlier. after about the 47th backhand she was late on i had rolled my eyes so much they were spinning in my head.
:hysteric:, you go sammy. :bowdown:

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:01 PM
She won New Haven last year. Isn't this a comparable tier? What a great result from Caro defeating the nos. 26, 18, 46, 23, and 25 in the world to take the title! :worship:

charmedRic
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:02 PM
GO CARO!!

you rock girl!

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:02 PM
Lol.. Are you even listening? She has said it twice now. Dont blame it on me!

Yes, I've been tuned in all along. The commentator is the biggest Caroline fan and I didn't hear her say that.

Patrick345
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:02 PM
LOL @ our own Danish commentator saying that even she couldnt understand how Wozniacki actually wins so many matches, when its always her opponent who is doing everything. Jesus.

Well at least Wozniacki plays every point and wants to win. Thatīs often enough to win matches on the WTA tour. Razzano blew it and she is smiling. A player, who aspires to be a winner would smash some raquets or at least dig a hole and hide in it. Razzano didnīt play a single serious point in teh game from 3-3 40-0 onwards, when the momentum was all hers. She hit two weak 2nd serve returns long at 5-4, when Woznicki was struggling so badly, that she could have gotten the upper hand in these rallies just playing them hard, flat and short. If you presented a winner with the same opportunities Wozniacki gave Razzano the scoreline would have been 6-7 6-3 1-0 break up winner, instead of 6-7 5-5.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:03 PM
She won New Haven last year. Isn't this a comparable tier? What a great result from Caro defeating the nos. 26, 18, 46, 23, and 25 in the world to take the title! :worship:
:hysteric:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:03 PM
She is definitely the best in her age group :yeah:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Title on

Clay - PVB
Hard - Tokyo, NEW HAVEN
Grass - Eastbourne

Amazing at #18, simply amazing! What a great competitorm and a wonderfully pleasant mature attitude ! Works very hard, humbled, beautiful and so warm! What's not to love, i love her so much!!

Great to see her take the title! If she continues to serve well and her groundies keep up the zip of early 1st set. She should still be in the UK in 1 week's time :yeah:
Didn't beat one top 10 player to win those titles. :tape:

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Yes, I've been tuned in all along. The commentator is the biggest Caroline fan and I didn't hear her say that.

I dont know why I keep bothering with you.
I didnt say anything about her not liking Wozniacki. :help:
She just commented on the fact that Wozniacki barely does anything in her matches and that sometimes its hard to understand how she can win so many.

ElusiveChanteuse
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Caro :hearts: :worship: Just left a slam win.:rocker2: :p
Virginie :spit: :shrug: :hug:

Vaidisova Ruled
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Good job from Caroline

Petkorazzi
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Oh Tuti :lol: Been a bit too long since she's lost so you're even bashing her in the title-winning thread? :awww:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:06 PM
She won New Haven last year. Isn't this a comparable tier? What a great result from Caro defeating the nos. 26, 18, 46, 23, and 25 in the world to take the title! :worship:

Just because Ivanovic, Jankovic, Zvonareva and French Open winner Kuznetsova couldn't cut it and lost to players they shouldn't have lost to.

Caroline at least has consistency. This is her 5th final this year. Second premier final.

Step to it!

Pen Expers
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:06 PM
Decent match. Her semi was much better, but at least she fought her way back after throwing away some opportunities. She had a lead for most of the matc, up a break, broken back, up another break, broken back, but she didn't collapse mentally and won deservedly. 16 winners is not bad against such an aggressive risk player as Razzano.

Fantasy Hero
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:07 PM
that match was not so exciting (i prefered the Semi with Aleks), but well done Caro, you are the best of the young stars :worship:

Libertango
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:07 PM
Well at least Wozniacki plays every point and wants to win. Thatīs often enough to win matches on the WTA tour. Razzano blew it and she is smiling. A player, who aspires to be a winner would smash some raquets or at least dig a hole and hide in it. Razzano didnīt play a single serious point in teh game from 3-3 40-0 onwards, when the momentum was all hers. She hit two weak 2nd serve returns long at 5-4, when Woznicki was struggling so badly, that she could have gotten the upper hand in these rallies just playing them hard, flat and short. If you presented a winner with the same opportunities Wozniacki gave Razzano the scoreline would have been 6-7 6-3 1-0 break up winner, instead of 6-7 5-5.

This is kinda true; how did Virgie not win the 2nd wet?! :help: She basically threw chance after chance away.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:07 PM
Just because Ivanovic, Jankovic, Zvonareva and French Open winner Kuznetsova couldn't cut it and lost to playeres they shouldn't have lost to.

Caroline at least has consistency. This is her 5th final this year. Second premier final.

Step to it!
:hysteric: Thats all she has.




And its "Step to this" not "Step to it" :hysteric:x2.

Step to it!

Andreas
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:08 PM
She didn't say that. Liar.

Well, not as M-K put it. But she said that she is sometimes surprised to see Caroline win so many matches when her opponent is playing better and then she said it just shows what a fighter Caroline is. She would never call her a lucky winner, she loves her :lol:

Caroline :worship: What a great win and match. Nice to see how two players can have fun during and after the match. We need that after seeing the horrible behaviour from Bartoli.
Now go for the Wimbledon title :D

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:09 PM
Didn't beat one top 10 player to win those titles. :tape:

to be fair if you play every week of the year, you'll get lucky every now and again and not run into a decent player :help:

markdelaney
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:10 PM
She won New Haven last year. Isn't this a comparable tier? What a great result from Caro defeating the nos. 26, 18, 46, 23, and 25 in the world to take the title! :worship:

That's about the same standard Andy Murray had to beat to win Queen's club, yet the UK media seem to think it makes him the greatest grass court player ever and red hot favourite to win Wimbledon..

Martina Hingis used to win 3 tournaments a year where the second seed was Sandrine Testud or Conchita Martinez. You can only beat the competition up against you

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:10 PM
I dont know why I keep bothering with you.

lol, you're just mad Caroline did what Azarenka couldn't at age 18. Keep hating :lol:

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:11 PM
Well at least Wozniacki plays every point and wants to win. Thatīs often enough to win matches on the WTA tour. Razzano blew it and she is smiling. A player, who aspires to be a winner would smash some raquets or at least dig a hole and hide in it. Razzano didnīt play a single serious point in teh game from 3-3 40-0 onwards, when the momentum was all hers. She hit two weak 2nd serve returns long at 5-4, when Woznicki was struggling so badly, that she could have gotten the upper hand in these rallies just playing them hard, flat and short. If you presented a winner with the same opportunities Wozniacki gave Razzano the scoreline would have been 6-7 6-3 1-0 break up winner, instead of 6-7 5-5.

ITA. Virginie seemed more than happy to be runner-up which is.. disappointing to say the least. She had the skills to win this match. She just didn't have the competitive edge. Caro lucked out that her opponent didn't seem to care about winning. :shrug:

Petkorazzi
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:11 PM
:hysteric: Thats all she has.




And its "Step to this" not "Step to it" :hysteric:x2.

Step to it!
It's it's and that's. :hysteric:

Andreas
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:11 PM
Didn't beat one top 10 player to win those titles. :tape:

That is not her fault. You only win a title if you are the best player of the tournament and Caroline just won Eastbourne - a big tournament, so SUCK ON THAT!!! (point)
Oh, and you really shouldn't talk about all this. As I remember, your favourite male player is Gilles Simon who is a pusher and plays even more tournaments than Caroline herself :D

You gotta come up with something new :hug:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:12 PM
lol, you're just mad Caroline did what Azarenka couldn't at age 18. Keep hating :lol:
Azarenka has won a premier mandatory and GS QF.


Step to it.

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM
lol, you're just mad Caroline did what Azarenka couldn't at age 18. Keep hating :lol:

No, Im just disappointed with the WTA. That a player like Wozniacki can win such a big tournament. God, whenever she's about to hit a winner she gets all cramp-like. :tape: It's horrible to watch. And you can just feel how whenever she gets the ball back, she's like desperately hoping for an error from her opponent. Its just miserable tennis to me. :help:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Azarenka has won a premier mandatory and GS QF.


Step to it.

At age 18?

NOPE.

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Just because Ivanovic, Jankovic, Zvonareva and French Open winner Kuznetsova couldn't cut it and lost to players they shouldn't have lost to.

Caroline at least has consistency. This is her 5th final this year. Second premier final.

Step to it!

Yes, her pusher tactics have proved consistent and effective. :worship: This has well been established. However when she faces top players other than Dementieva she simply can't compete. She didn't have to play anyone in Eastbourne. You're right that it's not her fault, but it's still the fact. :shrug:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:15 PM
It's it's and that's. :hysteric:
:weirdo: Well I wasn't correcting that person's grammar so don't correct mine. :rolleyes: And yes I think I would know that, but its much quicker not to type the apostrophe or w.e they call it nowadays. ;)

That is not her fault. You only win a title if you are the best player of the tournament and Caroline just won Eastbourne - a big tournament, so SUCK ON THAT!!! (point)
Oh, and you really shouldn't talk about all this. As I remember, your favourite male player is Gilles Simon who is a pusher and plays even more tournaments than Caroline herself :D

You gotta come up with something new :hug:
At least he doesn't fake injurys and win cakewalks. :D When Gilles was playing well he had beaten the whole big three, Caro? She's 5-7 vs the top 20 this year. :wavey:

Pen Expers
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:15 PM
So much vitrol. Why? One would think it's conterproductive to the enjoyment of tennis.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:15 PM
No, Im just disappointed with the WTA. That a player like Wozniacki can win such a big tournament. God, whenever she's about to hit a winner she gets all cramp-like. :tape: It's horrible to watch. And you can just feel how whenever she gets the ball back, she's like desperately hoping for an error from her opponent. Its just miserable tennis to me. :help:
PREACH! :bowdown:

miffedmax
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Virginie was cute in her little speech when she forgot Caro's name. Nice job from both of them I thought. (Even if Razzano was evil in Rnd 2).

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM
At age 18?

NOPE.
Who cares? Tati got to two GS 4r at age 16 and a QF at 18. Has Caro done that? NOPE. Do you see me boasting? NOPE.

Its not how you start, its how you finish. ;)

Step to it.

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Well at least Wozniacki plays every point and wants to win. Thatīs often enough to win matches on the WTA tour. Razzano blew it and she is smiling. A player, who aspires to be a winner would smash some raquets or at least dig a hole and hide in it. Razzano didnīt play a single serious point in teh game from 3-3 40-0 onwards, when the momentum was all hers. She hit two weak 2nd serve returns long at 5-4, when Woznicki was struggling so badly, that she could have gotten the upper hand in these rallies just playing them hard, flat and short. If you presented a winner with the same opportunities Wozniacki gave Razzano the scoreline would have been 6-7 6-3 1-0 break up winner, instead of 6-7 5-5.

I agree.It was a great opportunity for Virginie to take a big title, she has been playing well all week, had the game to beat Caroline rather easily but her attitude just sucked today.WTF with the smiling while you're blewing chance after chance ?? Looked like she was playing an exho at times.

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Virginie was cute in her little speech when she forgot Caro's name. Nice job from both of them I thought. (Even if Razzano was evil in Rnd 2).

remind me who did she beat in rnd 2? :devil:

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:19 PM
While Caro's myriad of MM tournaments are incredibly impressive for sure :worship:, I am curious about her last two GS losses to Dokic and Cirstea. Those are both matches she should have easily won on paper. I'll be curious to see if she will ever be able to beat top girls at Slams. I'm curious to see if she will ever make a GS QF without a catwalk draw. :tape:

Petkorazzi
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:19 PM
:weirdo: Well I wasn't correcting that person's grammar so don't correct mine. :rolleyes: And yes I think I would know that, but its much quicker not to type the apostrophe or w.e they call it nowadays. ;)


At least he doesn't fake injurys and win cakewalks. :D When Gilles was playing well he had beaten the whole big three, Caro? She's 5-7 vs the top 20 this year. :wavey:
And maybe the person just made a typo and wrote it instead of this? Not like he must know English very well anyway, it isn't his/her mother tongue for sure...

--

Regarding Simon - Caroline got to top 10 at 18 while Gilles broke through at what, 25? :o I've watched him win an ATP by pushing for the whole fucking week a few years ago but since then he has improved. I really wonder what you thought about him before last year's summer if you had seen him. :wavey:

Rafito.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:19 PM
That's soo Good. Love ya Wozniacki.

KanSuke
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:20 PM
Caroline :inlove:

Pen Expers
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:21 PM
The loss to Cirstea was because of an injury which had her out for two weeks. 'Curious' indeed.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:21 PM
Who cares? Tati got to two GS 4r at age 16 and a QF at 18. Has Caro done that? NOPE. Do you see me boasting? NOPE.

Its not how you start, its how you finish. ;)

Step to it.

What does Tati have to do with anything?


M-K is an Azarenka fan and always hating on Caroline as if she has no place in top tennis whatsoever (something Caroline constantly proves that she has). I've even seen her tune into a livescore thread and write "HAHAHA!" when Caro lost. I'm just sucking it to her.

Marcelo.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:21 PM
:o

Virginie :awww: :hug:

Libertango
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:21 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say Virgie was happy to lose; I'm sure I detected a little tear or wipe of the eye when she sat down immediately after; I think she's just a good sport.

Keegan
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:21 PM
First "Premier", but second Tier II. Congratulations Caro :)

Petkorazzi
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:22 PM
While Caro's myriad of MM tournaments are incredibly impressive for sure :worship:, I am curious about her last two GS losses to Dokic and Cirstea. Those are both matches she should have easily won on paper. I'll be curious to see if she will ever be able to beat top girls at Slams. I'm curious to see if she will ever make a GS QF without a catwalk draw. :tape:
:spit: Dokic was like unbeatable in those last two sets. :weirdo: I've rarely seen such controlled aggression from anyone except WS and Maria.

markdelaney
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Its just miserable tennis to me. :help:

It's all about opinion. Some of us find it horrible to watch a player screaming and hitting the ball at 130 mph every shot in a completely one dimensional fashion but others love it, same goes with Caroline's game. Yes she can be blown off court but then so could Hingis.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:22 PM
And maybe the person just made a typo and wrote it instead of this? Not like he must know English very well anyway, it isn't his/her mother tongue for sure...

--

Regarding Simon - Caroline got to top 10 at 18 while Gilles broke through at what, 25? :o I've watched him win an ATP by pushing for the whole fucking week a few years ago but since then he has improved. I really wonder what you thought about him before last year's summer if you had seen him. :wavey:
Its not about the person being English or not, they just said the wrong thing. ;)

He broke through at 23. And 23 on the ATP is still very young as men reach their physical peak at a much later date than women. ;) And i've been a fan of him for years. ;);)

If you look, you'll see there are about 2 18 year olds in the top 200. ;););)

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:23 PM
What does Tati have to do with anything?


M-K is an Azarenka fan and always hating on Caroline as if she has no place in top tennis whatsoever (something Caroline constantly proves that she has). I've even seen her tune into a livescore thread and write "HAHAHA!" when Caro lost. I'm just sucking it to her.

Huh?

Jose.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Loved the exchange at 40-15 at 6-5 when Caro thought she'd won it with an ace;

That was priceless :lol: Their smiles :hearts:
Well done Caroline :woohoo:
Now surprise us all in Wimbledon.
Virginei :hug:

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Well done, Caroline.
LOL @ 'she's a pusher' comments in every result thread of hers. Some people should just get over it and start paying attention to their faves.

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:25 PM
Tough match, not good stats but she did it. Yessss

Definitly not good for the nerves. Razzano played very well.

I liked when Caroline thought she had won but it was out, Caroline, Razzano all thought it was very funny.

And they showed her trick shot again.And it was in !!!

Now 67 points from #8


Det var skide godt hun vandt.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:25 PM
What does Tati have to do with anything?


M-K is an Azarenka fan and always hating on Caroline as if she has no place in top tennis whatsoever (something Caroline constantly proves that she has). I've even seen her tune into a livescore thread and write "HAHAHA!" when Caro lost. I'm just sucking it to her.
That her career started off amazing, but look how it panned out. We dont even know if she will come back or not. Age is nothing.

Roookie
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:26 PM
Congrats to Caro...a rare player who wants to win titles!. Good Luck in Wimbly!.

M.P
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:27 PM
shut up those haters
if you hate caro why don't u hate it in your mind and suck your ass off!

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:28 PM
That her career started off amazing, but look how it panned out. We dont even know if she will come back or not.

yea, but the future is undecided and irrelevant at this point. Same could happen for Azarenka for all we know.

(btw. I have nothing against Azarenka, except when she throws hissy-fits on court, it's just a few Azarenka lovers I see constantly bashing Caroline)

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:30 PM
shut up those haters
if you hate caro why don't u hate it in your mind and suck your ass off!

This sounds like a complex manuever to achieve. :o

Ferg
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:31 PM
Caro :hearts: 43 winners in her last two matches = pusher? :scratch:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:31 PM
Well done, Caroline.
LOL @ 'she's a pusher' comments in every result thread of hers. Some people should just get over it and start paying attention to their faves.
:rolleyes: Stop postwhoring, we all know you dont care about tennis. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/craig0191/avatars/t7.gif

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:33 PM
Stop postwhoring, we know you dont care about Tennis.
And you seem to care TOO much about players you don't even like. Even though it's understandable when your fave is retired and never coming back. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/digital_talent/MsgPlus_Img4063.png

Marionated
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Should've won the second set Virginie :smash:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:35 PM
And you seem to care TOO much about players you don't even like. Even though it's understandable when your fave is retired and never coming back. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/digital_talent/MsgPlus_Img4063.png

ZING! :lol:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:37 PM
And you seem to care TOO much about players you don't even like. Even though it's understandable when your fave is retired and never coming back. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/digital_talent/MsgPlus_Img4063.png
At least my Other two faves are still here to beat up on Maria. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/craig0191/avatars/t11.gif

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:39 PM
There is one bad thing about Caroline winning this tournament on a quiet saturday.
It fetches all the trolls, haters, denegraters out from under their stones and they fill the thread with their half lies, traps and thick comments. We get hear for the 50000000000000000000000000000th time that Caroline is no good, cannot beat anyone and who did what in the final in1812.

They both played too win, in fact Razzano played a lot of the time better. They both laughed when Caroline thought she had won, they Both kissed and held hands at the net, they Both laughed when Razzano couldn't remember Carolines name.
In other words they are sports women.


The misfits, crazies etc here could learn somthing.

AnomyBC
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Fun Caro facts!

Caro has now won 2 Premier level tournaments! (New Haven and Eastbourne)

Caro has now won tournaments on 3 surfaces! (Hard, green clay and grass)

Caro has won tournaments on 3 continents! (Europe, North America and Asia)

After her points from this tournament are added, Caro will be the #5 player of the year!

Caro is still only 18 years old!!!

:inlove:

Nikkiri
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:41 PM
Fun Caro facts!

Caro has now won 2 Premier level tournaments! (New Haven and Eastbourne)

Caro has now won tournaments on 3 surfaces! (Hard, green clay and grass)

Caro has won tournaments on 3 continents! (Europe, North America and Asia)

After her points from this tournament are added, Caro will be the #5 player of the year!

Caro is still only 18 years old!!!

:inlove:

:eek: GOAT

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:42 PM
There is one bad thing about Caroline winning this tournament on a quiet saturday.
It fetches all the trolls, haters, denegraters out from under their stones and they fill the thread with their half lies, traps and thick comments. We get hear for the 50000000000000000000000000000th time that Caroline is no good, cannot beat anyone and who did what in the final in1812.

They both played too win, in fact Razzano played a lot of the time better. They both laughed when Caroline thought she had won, they Both kissed and held hands at the net, they Both laughed when Razzano couldn't remember Carolines name.
In other words they are sports women.


The misfits, crazies etc here could learn somthing.
Virginie was not expected to get past the second round, or even the first. Why would she be upset?

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:43 PM
Fun Caro facts!

Caro has now won 2 Premier level tournaments! (New Haven and Eastbourne)

Caro has now won tournaments on 3 surfaces! (Hard, green clay and grass)

Caro has won tournaments on 3 continents! (Europe, North America and Asia)

After her points from this tournament are added, Caro will be the #5 player of the year!

Caro is still only 18 years old!!!

:inlove:
Caro is now 5-7 against the top 20 this year, and shes world no.9!!!!

Caro was meant to have two career threatening injuries, I wonder what happened to those!!

Caro has only beaten one top 10 player all year!!

Caro has played 15 tournaments all year!

Some more fun facts about Caro! :inlove:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:45 PM
There is one bad thing about Caroline winning this tournament on a quiet saturday.
It fetches all the trolls, haters, denegraters out from under their stones and they fill the thread with their half lies, traps and thick comments. We get hear for the 50000000000000000000000000000th time that Caroline is no good, cannot beat anyone and who did what in the final in1812.

To me it's one of the best parts. I love to see them writhe and squirm. It's the cherry on top for me.

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Caro :worship::bounce::kiss::hearts:


Both top 10 and premier title at age 18. Eat that Azarenka :D

Can't you just enjoy this win without bringing the far more talented and more accomplished Azarenka into it?

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:49 PM
She wasn't no. 9 when she lost most of those. And loss to Cirstea was because of injury.

She has played 50+ matches and is like 43-10 or something. That's pretty good stats.
Nope. The loss to Cirstea was because Cirstea was the better player. ;)

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:49 PM
Caro is now 5-7 against the top 20 this year, and shes world no.9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She wasn't no. 9 when she lost most of those. And loss to Cirstea was because of injury.

She has played 50+ matches and is like 43-10 or something. That's pretty good stats.

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:50 PM
At least my Other two faves are still here to beat up on Maria.
Especially that one Maria has a winning H2H against.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/digital_talent/ms.gif

darkangel23
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:50 PM
Caroline :worship:

Virginie :hug:

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:51 PM
All due respect to Caroline for a 5th title within the 52 week period. She is incredibly consistent and certainly a worthy top tenner.

Shame about some of her fans though who have to compare everything she does with what Azarenka did at 18.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Especially that one Maria has a winning H2H against.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5/digital_talent/ms.gif
Wimbledon 2005 + 2007. http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/craig0191/avatars/t3.gif

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:53 PM
She wasn't no. 9 when she lost most of those. And loss to Cirstea was because of injury.

She has played 50+ matches and is like 43-10 or something. That's pretty good stats.

Talking about injury I thought the one she got was rather serious (according to first reports etc...).What happened ? :confused:

Poova
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:53 PM
Caro is now 5-7 against the top 20 this year, and shes world no.9!!!!

Caro was meant to have two career threatening injuries, I wonder what happened to those!!

Caro has only beaten one top 10 player all year!!

Caro has played 15 tournaments all year!

Some more fun facts about Caro! :inlove:
Tuti :hearts:

Derek.
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:54 PM
Wow, Caro! :D :banana:

Awesome week! :yeah:

JadeFox
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Great week for Caro! Hopefully this will bode well for her at Wimbledon! :bounce:

adner
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:57 PM
We will see how far will Wozniacki get with such a schelude.

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 01:57 PM
Woohoo Caro , 5 titles at 18 :rocker:

Patrick345
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
They both played too win, in fact Razzano played a lot of the time better.

That is kind of the point. If you are the better player and put yourself into great positions repeatedly, but never take advantage, because you just lose focus and make stupid errors you simply lack the class/attitude to be a winner. Of course you can interpret that as criticsm toward Wozniacki, but at the same time constructive criticsm is never bad. The chances of "just" a pusher like Wozniacki or Murray to win multiple GS titles are very slim. Throughout two weeks itīs an exhausting style and eventually in the 2nd week youīll run into an aggressive player, whose on form that will dictate the match and pick you apart. The biggest strength of their pusher games is reaction, but if they take action, it sometimes makes you cringe. As quick as they think on the fly on a passing/reaction shot as horrible they sometimes look, when they attempt to construct a point offensively. If Wozniacki wants to succeed sheīll have to adjust her forehand, learn how to construct a point offensively and find a groundstroke that can generate winners. Mots of her winners, come from a smart defensive countermove that results in single shot winner from the t-line.

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:02 PM
Wimbledon 2005 + 2007.
Zurich 2004 + Miami 2005 + Miami 2007 :hearts: :worship:

CrossCourt~Rally
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Congrats Caro! :bounce:

Still a nice run from Razzano :bounce:

muniu
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:05 PM
We will see how far will Wozniacki get with such a schelude.

Nicole Vaidisova :sad::lol::help:

Good luck Karolina ,

and ffs leave Gilles alone, he's a great player, who was able to beat the best players in the world ( Fed, nadal, djoko)

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Zurich 2004 + Miami 2005 + Miami 2007 :hearts: :worship:
Wimbledon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest
Champion >>>>>>>>>>> Loser.

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Wimbledon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rest
Champion >>>>>>>>>>> Loser.
3-2 H2H >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2-3 H2H
AO title >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no AO title

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Talking about injury I thought the one she got was rather serious (according to first reports etc...).What happened ? :confused:

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=380758

... ?

muniu
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:12 PM
http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=380758

... ?

miracle!!!!!!!:lol:

AnomyBC
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Caro is now 5-7 against the top 20 this year, and shes world no.9!!!!

But she's 3-1 against the players ranked 10-20, so she lives up to her ranking :)

Caro was meant to have two career threatening injuries, I wonder what happened to those!!

That just makes what she's accomplished even more impressive. Horrible career-threatening injuries just make her stronger :inlove:

Daniel
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Congratulations Caro :banana:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:15 PM
But she's 3-1 against the players ranked 10-20, so she lives up to her ranking :)



That just makes what she's accomplished even more impressive. Horrible career-threatening injuries just make her stronger :inlove:
The fact that shes only played 4 of those is even more hilarious. :inlove:


Or maybe they just didnt exist in the first place and/or were overdramatized. :inlove:

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:17 PM
miracle!!!!!!!:lol:

Indeed ;)

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:26 PM
3-2 H2H >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2-3 H2H
AO title >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no AO title
I was talkng about Venus going on to win those tournaments and Maria not. :hug: No need to get all delusional on me.

Adal
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:28 PM
I was talkng about Venus going on to win those tournaments and Maria not. :hug: No need to get all delusional on me.
I was just talking about Maria having a winning H2H against Venus. There's nothing you can do about that :hug:

cn ireland
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Congrats on title #5 Caro:bounce:!

I like her more and more everytime I see her play:hearts:!

I actually predicted that she'd win the title at the start of the week too;)!

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Who cares? Tati got to two GS 4r at age 16 and a QF at 18. Has Caro done that? NOPE. Do you see me boasting? NOPE.

Its not how you start, its how you finish. ;)

Step to it.

:haha: I tried not to bring that embarassment to the discussion but you couldn't help yourself! :tape::help:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:38 PM
:eek: GOAT

:worship:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:39 PM
Can't you just enjoy this win without bringing the far more talented and more accomplished Azarenka into it?

:spit:

Craig.
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:50 PM
:spit:

:weirdo: He's right.

MechWarrior2k
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:52 PM
The loss to Cirstea was because of an injury which had her out for two weeks. 'Curious' indeed.

Maybe she wouldn't get injured if she didn't try to be like Jankovic playing practically every tournament out there each week. We've seen what that's done to Jankovic and Davydenko: make money, win some minor tournaments, lack energy to challenge for a major, and eventually experience major burnout and nagging/recurring ailments, among others.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 02:58 PM
:weirdo: He's right.

How is Azarenka far more accomplished when she only has 3 titles and Caroline has 5 despite Azarenka being a whole year older and most of her titles coming at an age Caroline hasn't even entered yet? Or put differently, Caroline has 5 titles at the age of 18. Azarenka had 1. Caroline won her first premier and made top 10 at the age of 18. Azarenka didn't do that until she was well into her 19th year. How's that for "far more accomplished"? Caroline 17th and 18th years have so far been more impressive than Azarenka's respective years and right now they're neck-to-neck in the rankings (is it 8 points that separate them?). That's not exactly the definition of "far more accomplished". Yet I'm sure a certain few Azarenka fans will continue to act like Azarenka is a future #1 and GS winner and Caroline doesn't even belong in the top 10. Laughable.

Ryan
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:00 PM
Caro! :D Great tourney for her, hopefully she can keep this form up at Wimbledon. She lost a 3-setter to Jankovic last year in the 3rd/4th round I think, so with a better draw this year and better grass results she could go even farther IMO. WD Caro, keep the morons like Slutiana crying. :D

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:01 PM
BTW am i the only one that thinks taylor swift and caro were separated at birth, plus there both boring as fuck!

Ryan
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:03 PM
How is Azarenka far more accomplished when she only has 3 titles and Caroline has 5 despite Azarenka being a whole year older and most of her titles coming at an age Caroline hasn't even entered yet? Carolie won her first premier and made top 10 at the age of 18. Azarenka didn't do that until she was well into her 19th year. How's that for "far more accomplished"? Caroline 17th and 18th years have so far been more impressive than Azarenka's respective years and right now they're neck-to-neck in the rankings. That's not exactly the definition of "far more accomplished". Yet I'm sure a certain few Azarenka fans will continue to act like Azarenka is a godsend and Caroline doesn't even belong in the top 10. Laughable.



I've gotta agree with kman. I think both are equally accomplished, though I do think Vika has more potential. She's got bigger wins and a bigger title than Caro, but Caro has more titles overall and has shown (at only 18!) that she's poised to be near the top of the game for a long time. I think they play very different games and Vika draws more fans to her based on her style, but saying she's "far" more accomplished is simply inaccurate.

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:04 PM
How is Azarenka far more accomplished when she only has 3 titles and Caroline has 5 despite Azarenka being a whole year older and most of her titles coming at an age Caroline hasn't even entered yet? Or put differently, Caroline has 5 titles at the age of 18. Azarenka had 1. Caroline won her first premier and made top 10 at the age of 18. Azarenka didn't do that until she was well into her 19th year. How's that for "far more accomplished"? Caroline 17th and 18th years have so far been more impressive than Azarenka's respective years and right now they're neck-to-neck in the rankings (is it 8 points that separate them?). That's not exactly the definition of "far more accomplished". Yet I'm sure a certain few Azarenka fans will continue to act like Azarenka is a future #1 and GS winner and Caroline doesn't even belong in the top 10. Laughable.
Je t'adore.
x
Ich liebe dich.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:04 PM
I've gotta agree with kman. I think both are equally accomplished, though I do think Vika has more potential. She's got bigger wins and a bigger title than Caro, but Caro has more titles overall and has shown (at only 18!) that she's poised to be near the top of the game for a long time. I think they play very different games and Vika draws more fans to her based on her style, but saying she's "far" more accomplished is simply inaccurate.

Thank you for an unbiased assessment.

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:05 PM
BTW am i the only one that thinks taylor swift and caro were separated at birth, plus there both boring as fuck!

You really are more cluless than i thought if you think Taylor is boring :hug:

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:09 PM
You really are more cluless than i thought if you think Taylor is boring :hug:

yes because teardrops on my guitar is a boundary pushing song :help:

give me tori amos anyday :hearts:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:14 PM
yes because teardrops on my guitar is a boundary pushing song :help:

give me tori amos anyday :hearts:

Oh right, well yeah her music is very mild :lol:

Her personality however :inlove: Far from boring.

Libertango
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:16 PM
The thing I like about Caro is her ability to win when she should (well, most of the time) She has an "IT factor" to her game; I totally predict her to win a few slams, at some point in the future. Maybe not this year (well, I pick her to win Wimby) but definitely at some point. She just has a champions aura about her. JMHO.

sammy01
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:17 PM
Oh right, well yeah her music is very mild :lol:

Her personality however :inlove: Far from boring.

don't know how she is as a person, i just think caro's tennis is a good match to taylor's music, and everytime i see one of them the other springs to mind.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:17 PM
Pushniacki wins a grasscourt title, absolutely expected (given the current level of women's tennis) and embarassing at the same time :sad:
Virginie was not able to step back when she should have done that and her shot selection was pretty terrible.

But you gotta give Caro some credit. She has reached six finals so far this season despite suffering two career-threatening injuries :worship:

Serenita
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:18 PM
Congratulations Caro

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:50 PM
Caro! :D Great tourney for her, hopefully she can keep this form up at Wimbledon. She lost a 3-setter to Jankovic last year in the 3rd/4th round I think, so with a better draw this year and better grass results she could go even farther IMO. WD Caro, keep the morons like Slutiana crying. :D
Crying? It's more laughing at how hopeless most of the field has been this past year. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Convoluted
Jun 20th, 2009, 03:53 PM
Good job Caroline :)

I don't get it with this board. One moment everyone is a ballbasher, but suddenly when someone like Caroline steps on the court and actually finds other ways to win, the hating begins.

There's a difference between pushing and choosing to play with margin and variety. I think she adds an interesting dimension to the game, and I'm hoping for a future Wozniacki-Azarenka rivalry :)

Ryan
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Crying? It's more laughing at how hopeless most of the field has been this past year. :lol::lol::lol::lol:



You're still acting pretty pathetic and desperate, no matter how hard you try to be contemptuous. :)

ce
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:03 PM
funny match
well done wozi

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:05 PM
You're still acting pretty pathetic and desperate, no matter how hard you try to be contemptuous. :)



All I'll say is thank God for the ignore list , it's magical, I reccomend it ;)

Cat's Pajamas
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:06 PM
Well done Caroline! :D :worship:

~{X}~
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:19 PM
Go Caro... so happy you won, now have a breakthrough at Wimbledon! :D

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Pushniacki wins a grasscourt title, absolutely expected (given the current level of women's tennis) and embarassing at the same time :sad:
Virginie was not able to step back when she should have done that and her shot selection was pretty terrible.

But you gotta give Caro some credit. She has reached six finals so far this season despite suffering two career-threatening injuries :worship:

Hurray Living in the past N.G.Ative_4Ever finally turned up.

This should heighten the intellectual level.

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:36 PM
That is kind of the point. If you are the better player and put yourself into great positions repeatedly, but never take advantage, because you just lose focus and make stupid errors you simply lack the class/attitude to be a winner. Of course you can interpret that as criticsm toward Wozniacki, but at the same time constructive criticsm is never bad. The chances of "just" a pusher like Wozniacki or Murray to win multiple GS titles are very slim. Throughout two weeks itīs an exhausting style and eventually in the 2nd week youīll run into an aggressive player, whose on form that will dictate the match and pick you apart. The biggest strength of their pusher games is reaction, but if they take action, it sometimes makes you cringe. As quick as they think on the fly on a passing/reaction shot as horrible they sometimes look, when they attempt to construct a point offensively. If Wozniacki wants to succeed sheīll have to adjust her forehand, learn how to construct a point offensively and find a groundstroke that can generate winners. Mots of her winners, come from a smart defensive countermove that results in single shot winner from the t-line.

It does not help her much by writing all this here, I am not playing for her or her coach.
Your constructive criticism might help if you post it on this blog of hers she might read it, who knows.

http://blog.tv2.dk/caroline.tv2/entry322163.html

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 04:40 PM
Crying? It's more laughing at how hopeless most of the field has been this past year. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
If its that bad why not start following arm wrestling on Eurosport instead.

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Talking about injury I thought the one she got was rather serious (according to first reports etc...).What happened ? :confused:
After the match she had to have help too change and get to the transport, too much pain. Painkillers.
Doctors and Physios in Paris had a look at her, maybe a disk had moved.They said she could not fly from Paris the first 2 days with her back, then in Danmark she was at a Private Hospital and had a MIR scan, and docs checked her. The shoulder was an infection and the back was not a slipped disk(s) but 2 vertabrae that had moved, they got put back in place. Then she went too see some shoulder specialist. Got treatment with rest it would get better. Then on too Monte Carlo too her usual chiropracter and rest.
All the while there was alot of critisism in the press by "experts" about the amount of tournaments she was playing ETC.
Which ended when they said she would not be playing doubles at Eastbourne or Wimbledon IF she took part. They also said she wouldn't be playing so much in the Autumn.
All in all from what she has said it was pretty bloody painfull, at the time and at RG she was pretty scared, the diagnoses were a relief, and after the period with treatment and rest she was happy that it was all ok too play at Eastbourne.

terjw
Jun 20th, 2009, 05:17 PM
WD Caro - she did it :hearts:. This was a tournament with so many top players in it and she was the one who came through and showed she was the best - although some close shaves in this match and the semi-final. Caro can be very very proud of winning this tournament. Last year she wasn't well known but beat Sveta. This year she wins the tournament. Hoping she does well and can go deep at Wimbledon now.

Just love the joy on her face. A very good ambassador for the WTA and some nice moments by both girls:

The ace she thought she'd made to win the match and her reaction sinking to her knees and then both girls laughing when it wasn't the winner. Actually she did well not to serve a DF after that.
.
Virgine forgetting Caro's name in her speech.
.
The kiss at the net at the end of the match - especially with the incidents in two earlier matches at Eastbourne where a player refused to shake hands with her opponent.

pav
Jun 20th, 2009, 05:42 PM
Good on Caro! better still after all the rubbishing she gets on here with pullers calling her a pusher!

wally1
Jun 20th, 2009, 05:43 PM
Well done to Wozniacki. Just watched the match, very nice one I thought, particularly the first set.

Always amusing to see the usual morons appear whenever Wozniacki wins a match :lol:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 06:00 PM
If its that bad why not start following arm wrestling on Eurosport instead.
most of the field. ;)

The Dawntreader
Jun 20th, 2009, 06:07 PM
You really are more cluless than i thought if you think Taylor is boring :hug:

Aren't you a Beyonce follower?:lol:

treufreund
Jun 20th, 2009, 06:23 PM
A few of my observations. Caroline's style reminds me of Clijsters or Capriati. How so? Relies on deep, heavy strokes and athletic movement to outrally her opponents. Can hit winners BUT is happy to win matches by hitting very solid shots that FORCE errors. Her solid play and good defense also draw UNFORCED errors because the rallies are tough. She has a bit more versatility that Clijsters and Capriati at the moment. I think Kim and Jennifer had that versatility but did not use it quite as much as Caroline. Caroline's serve is pretty good but not great (also like Jennifer or Kim). Kim and Caroline have better backhands, Jenn a better forehand. RESULT: Not a "pusher" but rather an "aggressive counterpuncher" with the ability to take charge of points when urgency is required. Pusher is a way overused term. Not every girl needs to go for clean winners on every shot a la Na Li for example (or Alla Kudryavtseva)

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 06:31 PM
Aren't you a Beyonce follower?:lol:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2zyesyr.gif



http://i44.tinypic.com/szx3lv.gif

gmak
Jun 20th, 2009, 07:43 PM
caro :yeah: :woohoo:
never in doubt ;)

Matt01
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:18 PM
I've gotta agree with kman. I think both are equally accomplished, though I do think Vika has more potential. She's got bigger wins and a bigger title than Caro, but Caro has more titles overall and has shown (at only 18!) that she's poised to be near the top of the game for a long time. I think they play very different games and Vika draws more fans to her based on her style, but saying she's "far" more accomplished is simply inaccurate.


I respectfully disagree with that part. Vika has reached a quarterfinal at a Slam, has won one of the biggest tournaments in the World (Miami) and has beaten Serena and Sharapova in big tournaments. Vika is the more accomplished player.

dorotek23
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:22 PM
Solid play from Caro before Wimbledon :yeah:

FormerlyKnownAs
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:30 PM
most of the field. ;)
So you allready follow most of the arm wrestling field, well its nice you young people have something to watch and keep you off the street corners, while the elders and betters enjoy the Eastbourne Final In peace.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
I respectfully disagree with that part. Vika has reached a quarterfinal at a Slam, has won one of the biggest tournaments in the World (Miami) and has beaten Serena and Sharapova in big tournaments. Vika is the more accomplished player.

Surely not when you factor in age. Vika had nothing when she was Caroline's age.

Vika beat an injured Serena and Serena went on to drop like 3 or 4 matches in a row in subsequent tournaments (an all-time low for her). Caroline also had 4 match points against Serena early in the year and she's still a whole year younger than Vika.

Yes, age aside, Vika is SLIGHTLY (not far) more accomplished than Caroline is right now, but I suspect by the time Caroline reaches the age Vika had when she won Miami, she will have also reached at least a slam QF and probably added a few more titles to her name.

Caroline has more titles overall and across three surfaces (clay, grass, hard) and has also reached more finals this year. If it wasn't for her injury at FO, she would at least have made QF there too. I mean, Stosur made SF and Caroline just ousted Stosur in Eastbourne. To be honest, a slam QF isn't that big of a deal. Winning a premier with a strong field is better in my opinion.

Do I think Azarenka is the technically superior player right now? Absolutely.

But her downfall may be her temper.

Caroline on the other hand seems more mentally tough and stable and IF she can continue to improve her technique and take her game to the next level, she'll win a slam before Azarenka does. You heard it here first.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:41 PM
A few of my observations. Caroline's style reminds me of Clijsters or Capriati. How so? Relies on deep, heavy strokes and athletic movement to outrally her opponents. Can hit winners BUT is happy to win matches by hitting very solid shots that FORCE errors. Her solid play and good defense also UNFORCED errors because the rallies are tough. She has a bit more versatility that Clijsters and Capriati at the moment. I think Kim and Jennifer had that versatility but did not use it quite as much as Caroline. Caroline's serve is pretty good but not great (also like Jennifer or Kim). Kim and Caroline have better backhands, Jenn a better forehand. RESULT: Not a "pusher" but rather an "aggressive counterpuncher" with the ability to take charge of points when urgency is required. Pusher is a way overused term. Not every girl needs to go for clean winners on every shot a la Na Li for example (or Alla Kudryavtseva)
Umm, no. She isn't aggresive at all. Look at Justine or Tati, those were aggresive counterpunchers (although in 07 both were very very very very aggresive counterpunchers) but Caro isn't aggresive. Her home-made technique just doesnt allow her to be. Just watch when she tries to go for power on her backhand, her whole body just moves sideways rather than forward and it just looks horribly akward, this compared with someone like Sori who creates power effortlessly - another aggresive counterpuncher and probably a better example than the aforementioned players. And variety, what variety? Bar that ugly two handed slice backhand that makes me want to puke everytime I see it and also the moonballs she does, there's no variety. I know she isn't a pusher as such, she hits deep and fairly heavy balls, but it certainly isn't aggresive and also there certainly isn't much variety. Its obviously effective though, shes definatly a poor man's Jankovic - pre-the second half of 08, but in that second half after Wimbledon, JJ changed. She became much more aggresive and is, well was much faster than Caro and became a pretty great and exciting player as a result and her results back that up - 3 tournies in row, USO final, YEC SF + World no.1, but Caro can't do that. She simply doesnt have anywhere near the technique of JJs, and doesn't have anywhere near the timing of JJs. Shes making the best of what she's got, though.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:42 PM
So you allready follow most of the arm wrestling field, well its nice you young people have something to watch and keep you off the street corners, while the elders and betters enjoy the Eastbourne Final In peace.
Well that wasn't very funny.

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:47 PM
:spit:

You only like her cos Venus asked her to play doubles in Doha!


How is Azarenka far more accomplished when she only has 3 titles and Caroline has 5 despite Azarenka being a whole year older and most of her titles coming at an age Caroline hasn't even entered yet? Or put differently, Caroline has 5 titles at the age of 18. Azarenka had 1. Caroline won her first premier and made top 10 at the age of 18. Azarenka didn't do that until she was well into her 19th year. How's that for "far more accomplished"? Caroline 17th and 18th years have so far been more impressive than Azarenka's respective years and right now they're neck-to-neck in the rankings (is it 8 points that separate them?). That's not exactly the definition of "far more accomplished". Yet I'm sure a certain few Azarenka fans will continue to act like Azarenka is a future #1 and GS winner and Caroline doesn't even belong in the top 10. Laughable.



I said she's far more talented, IMO (and yes she's more accomplished although the word far didn't apply to that).

I don't really see what age has to do with it, Wozniacki made her WTA debut before Azarenka so she's actually had more time to "accomplish". It's as simple as this, as of now, Azarenka has accomplished more. OK 2 less titles, but her Miami win is bigger than any title Wozniacki has won. She has had more impressive victories, and has generally gone deeper at the biggest tournaments (including a GS QF which Wozniacki is yet to achieve). Plus of course she's already won 2 GS titles and has 5 GS finals to her name from doubles. Age is irrelevant.

I have never said Caroline doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. You started all this bullshit by putting Vika in the OP instead of just being content with your favourite winning a title. Why you had to do that I have no idea, but it makes you look ridiculous because this win doesn't change anything, Vika is still a superior player.

It seems you are more concerned with how Caroline measures up to Vika instead of just how good a player she is on her own. It's a shame coming from a so-called fan.

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Surely not when you factor in age. Vika had nothing when she was Caroline's age.

Vika beat an injured Serena and Serena went on to drop like 3 or 4 matches in a row in subsequent tournaments (an all-time low for her). Caroline also had 4 match points against Serena early in the year and she's still a whole year younger than Vika.

Yes, age aside, Vika is SLIGHTLY (not far) more accomplished than Caroline is right now, but I suspect by the time Caroline reaches the age Vika had when she won Miami, she will have also reached at least a slam QF and probably added a few more titles to her name.

Caroline has more titles overall and across three surfaces (clay, grass, hard) and has also reached more finals this year. If it wasn't for her injury at FO, she would at least have made QF there too. I mean, Stosur made SF and Caroline just ousted Stosur in Eastbourne. To be honest, a slam QF isn't that big of a deal. Winning a premier with a strong field is better in my opinion.

Do I think Azarenka is the technically superior player right now? Absolutely.

But her downfall may be her temper.

Caroline on the other hand seems more mentally tough and stable and IF she can continue to improve her technique and take her game to the next level, she'll win a slam before Azarenka does. You heard it here first.
Omg. :hysteric:

Victoria's downfall may be her temper, but Caro's is her GAME. And thats not really something that can be dramatically improved on. Either you have the game to win slams or you don't. As consistent as Caro is, she doesn't. Even being as unbiased as humanly possible for me, as someone who just doesn't like either player, I know that Azarenka has a shot at winning a slam or two, Caro on the other hand? The only way she'd ever win a slam is if the field was similar to that of this week or back in Madrid. AKA all of the top 20 players were out on their asses.

Lulu.
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:53 PM
Terrible.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:54 PM
I said she's far more talented, IMO (and yes she's more accomplished although the word far didn't apply to that).


Then you really should have phrased it better.

e.g.

"Vika is more accomplished and far more talented"

instead of

"Vika is far more talented and accomplished"

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Then you really should have phrased it better.

e.g.

"Vika is more accomplished and far more talented"

instead of

"Vika is far more talented and accomplished"

You should just have left Vika out of this. :shrug:

I said "Vika is far more talented and more accomplished." :wavey:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Omg. :hysteric:

Victoria's downfall may be her temper, but Caro's is her GAME. And thats not really something that can be dramatically improved on. Either you have the game to win slams or you don't.


It's easier to improve technique than changing your personality. Victoria's temper is part of her personality and if things aren't going her way she starts to throw hissy-fits and fall apart.

Caroline has improved her game tremendously since last year and continues to do so. Her groundstrokes are deeper and harder, her serve is a lot better and her movement and ball anticipation have improved dramatically as well.

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:03 PM
I agree with kman on that point. Look at Dinara..yes she's improved in terms of mentality but her temperament and her nerves have now cost her in 3 GS finals. And Vika is even less developed than her as she's a choker , whereas Dinara isn't, she just sucks in high pressure situations from the start.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:07 PM
You should just have left Vika out of this. :shrug:

I said "Vika is far more talented and more accomplished." :wavey:

I could've sworn you didn't, but I must've missed the second "more". My bad.


How do you assess talent anyway?

A big part of tennis is the mental game. I could say Caroline is far more mentally talented and you wouldn't really be able to disprove it. Seems a bit flimsy to be honest.

The Daviator
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Caroline :yeah: This was her 9th final in the last 12 months :worship: Keep it up!

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:13 PM
It's easier to improve technique than changing your personality. Victoria's temper is part of her personality and if things aren't going her way she starts to throw hissy-fits and fall apart.

Caroline has improved her game tremendously since last year and continues to do so. Her groundstrokes are deeper and harder, her serve is a lot better and her movement and ball anticipation have improved dramatically as well.
Her serve has gotten better, but thats about it really. Changing technique is not some easy everyday thing, sometimes it can completely fuck up a person's game. Do you not play tennis?

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:14 PM
I could've sworn you didn't, but I must've missed the second "more". My bad.


How do you assess talent anyway?

A big part of tennis is the mental game. I could say Caroline is far more mentally talented and you wouldn't really be able to disprove it. Seems a bit flimsy to be honest.

Well Caroline may be very solid mentally against lower ranked players but her record against top player isn't really crying "warning : mental giant out there !!".On the contrary, Azarenka is a crazy bitch (and it will cost a lot in her career)but in the same time she showed that she was able to bring it against top players.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:17 PM
Well Caroline may be very solid mentally against lower ranked players but her record against top player isn't really crying "warning : mental giant out there !!".On the contrary, Azarenka is a crazy bitch (and it will cost a lot in her career)but in the same time she showed that she was able to bring it against top players.

Because she beat an injured Serena in Miami? Isn't that akin to Caroline beating Kuznetsova or Dementieva?

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:18 PM
Winning a premier with a strong field is better in my opinion.


The strength of the field is irrelevant. Caro had no top 15 wins on her catwalk to the Eastbourne crown. :tape:

When she DOES have to face top 10 players, she loses. Often. She has only beaten one Top 10 player all year. By contrast, Azarenka has much more success with her peers in the Top 10. When she beat Sharapova she was younger than Caro is now IIRC. Azarenka is the future slam champion, not Wozniacki. But feel free to bump this thread when Caro wins a Slam. :devil:

ZAK
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Wozniacki has obvious flaws in her game, but I admire her consistent deep runs in the inconsistent shitshow that is women's tennis.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:25 PM
The strength of the field is irrelevant. Caro had no top 15 wins on her catwalk to the Eastbourne crown. :tape:

When she DOES have to face top 10 players, she loses. Often. She has only beaten one Top 10 player all year. By contrast, Azarenka has much more success with her peers in the Top 10. When she beat Sharapova she was younger than Caro is now IIRC. Azarenka is the future slam champion, not Wozniacki. But feel free to bump this thread when Caro wins a Slam. :devil:

Not Caroline's fault Razzano beat number one seed Dementieva. Caroline beat Razzano who beat Dementieva. And before that she had beaten both Razzano and Dementieva twice this year anyway.

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:26 PM
Her serve has gotten better, but thats about it really. Changing technique is not some easy everyday thing, sometimes it can completely fuck up a person's game. Do you not play tennis?

:)

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:26 PM
You only like her cos Venus asked her to play doubles in Doha!






I said she's far more talented, IMO (and yes she's more accomplished although the word far didn't apply to that).

I don't really see what age has to do with it, Wozniacki made her WTA debut before Azarenka so she's actually had more time to "accomplish". It's as simple as this, as of now, Azarenka has accomplished more. OK 2 less titles, but her Miami win is bigger than any title Wozniacki has won. She has had more impressive victories, and has generally gone deeper at the biggest tournaments (including a GS QF which Wozniacki is yet to achieve). Plus of course she's already won 2 GS titles and has 5 GS finals to her name from doubles. Age is irrelevant.

I have never said Caroline doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. You started all this bullshit by putting Vika in the OP instead of just being content with your favourite winning a title. Why you had to do that I have no idea, but it makes you look ridiculous because this win doesn't change anything, Vika is still a superior player.

It seems you are more concerned with how Caroline measures up to Vika instead of just how good a player she is on her own. It's a shame coming from a so-called fan.

:o:o:rolleyes::rolleyes:

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:29 PM
Because she beat an injured Serena in Miami? Isn't that akin to Caroline beating Kuznetsova or Dementieva?

Serena wasn't injured at AO when she got her ass kicked before Azarenka retired.And this year alone, Vika beat Safina, Kuzzy, Amelie, Bartoli, trashed Caroline twice (on different surfaces)and let Ana win only 5 games at FO before giving Dinara a hell of a match.

Caroline against really good/great players this year : beat Lena (her bitch)twice and a tired Amelie in Madrid.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Serena wasn't injured at AO when she got her ass kicked before Azarenka retired.And this year alone, Vika beat Safina, Kuzzy, Amelie, Bartoli, trashed Caroline twice (on different surfaces)and let Ana win only 5 games at FO before giving Dinara a hell of a match.

Caroline against really good/great players this year : beat Lena (her bitch)twice and a tired Amelie in Madrid.

Caroline beat Vika this year at Fed Cup and also last year. Caroline also beat Kuzzy and Bartoli last year. She was one point from beating Serena. And like you said, she beat Dementieva twice in a row. She's younger and doesn't have as much experience as Vika, but she's improving.

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:38 PM
I could've sworn you didn't, but I must've missed the second "more". My bad.


How do you assess talent anyway?

A big part of tennis is the mental game. I could say Caroline is far more mentally talented and you wouldn't really be able to disprove it. Seems a bit flimsy to be honest.

By "talent" I am referring solely to their tennis abilities. I just feel Vika's game is so much more impressive, she does more with the ball. She has better ballstriking capablities, more weapons in her game, better serve, better at net, just a more complete package who seems to do more in the points and has more to rely on to win points. This is shown by her ability to reach the top levels of both singles and doubles.

For me, the mental aspect doesn't fall into the talent category as it's not exclusive to tennis. There are many cases where players are arguably more talented but just mentally not there. I do agree Caroline is more mentally sure than Vika, but I wasn't talking about that when I said Vika is more talented.


:o:o:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's true! :rolleyes: Marion should be your no.3 fave :sad: deep down I know she is

rucolo
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:38 PM
Congrats for WTA Premier title, Caroline!:hearts::bounce::D:woohoo:

Caroline now has #5 WTA titles.:yeah:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:39 PM
What a bitch to have though!

Vika at Slams

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
7/4 4r 3r 3r 1r
FRENCH OPEN
7/4 QF 4r 1r 1r
WIMBLEDON
4/3- 3r 3r 1r
US OPEN
7/3- 3r 4r 3r

Caro's Slam Record

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
5/2 3r 4r-
FRENCH OPEN
4/3 3r 3r 1r
WIMBLEDON
3/2- 3r 2r
US OPEN
4/2- 4r 2r

Vika reached her 1st Slam QF in her 14th slam - notice her first 3 slams ended in the first round.
Caro's 14th Slam will be Wimbledon 2010. IMHO, she should make it here.

First Three years on tour

Vika -
2006 92
2005 146
2004 506

Caro -
2008 12
2007 64
2006 237

Make your own decisions :shrug: Fun argument :lol: Rarely say that!

Dave.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:39 PM
Caroline beat Vika this year at Fed Cup and also last year. Caroline also beat Kuzzy and Bartoli last year. She's younger and doesn't have as much experience as Vika, but she's improving.

She's been on the WTA tour longer...

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:40 PM
Caroline beat Vika this year at Fed Cup and also last year. Caroline also beat Kuzzy and Bartoli last year. She's younger and doesn't have as much experience as Vika, but she's improving.

Vika was a headcase (how many finals lost before she got it together ??)but she improved so I'm not saying Caroline won't improve too.The difference is that she can bring it mentally against the very best AND has enough game to beat them at times.Caroline's game is too limited to really hurt the top players on a consistent basis imo.

Marionated
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:41 PM
Vika is quite simply a much better player :shrug:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
God, looking back - i cannot believe i am going to say this considering how nervous i was at the time. But i wish Caro beat Serena in Sydney :sobbing:

Would not have affected Ree in Melbourne but she came so close :awww:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
What a bitch to have though!

Vika at Slams

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
7/4 4r 3r 3r 1r
FRENCH OPEN
7/4 QF 4r 1r 1r
WIMBLEDON
4/3- 3r 3r 1r
US OPEN
7/3- 3r 4r 3r

Caro's Slam Record

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
5/2 3r 4r-
FRENCH OPEN
4/3 3r 3r 1r
WIMBLEDON
3/2- 3r 2r
US OPEN
4/2- 4r 2r

Vika reached her 1st Slam QF in her 14th slam - notice her first 3 slams ended in the first round.
Caro's 14th Slam will be Wimbledon 2010. IMHO, she should make it here.

First Three years on tour

Vika -
2006 92
2005 146
2004 506

Caro -
2008 12
2007 64
2006 237

Make your own decisions :shrug: Fun argument :lol: Rarely say that!

ZING!






But Azarenka is more talented! I can prove it!

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:42 PM
Not Caroline's fault Razzano beat number one seed Dementieva. Caroline beat Razzano who beat Dementieva. And before that she had beaten both Razzano and Dementieva twice this year anyway.

Well the fact that she was the sixth(?) seed here and never had to play anyone ranked higher than her is making my argument for me. She is very consistent beating girls ranked below her. But she just doesn't have the talent or weapons to contend with the majority of the Top 10. The only reason she won this title was because she didn't have to face any of them. And it's not her fault that other girls actually *do* have talent to get Top 10 wins and take them out of the way for her. :shrug: Razzano has more Top 10 wins this year than Wozniacki. She's not nearly as consistent, but she has the game to threaten the top players. Caro? NOT SO MUCH. I don't know why this doesn't make sense to you as it is not rocket science.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Well the fact that she was the sixth(?) seed here and never had to play anyone ranked higher than her is making my argument for me. She is very consistent beating girls ranked below her. But she just doesn't have the talent or weapons to contend with the majority of the Top 10. The only reason she won this title was because she didn't have to face any of them. And it's not her fault that other girls actually *do* have talent to get Top 10 wins and take them out of the way for her. :shrug: Razzano has more Top 10 wins this year than Wozniacki. She's not nearly as consistent, but she has the game to threaten the top players. Caro? NOT SO MUCH. I don't know why this doesn't make sense to you as it is not rocket science.

If Caro's opponents could beat them, surely Caro could too. Caro already beat the number one seed of this tournament three times in a row this year.

M-K
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Umm, no. She isn't aggresive at all. Look at Justine or Tati, those were aggresive counterpunchers (although in 07 both were very very very very aggresive counterpunchers) but Caro isn't aggresive. Her home-made technique just doesnt allow her to be. Just watch when she tries to go for power on her backhand, her whole body just moves sideways rather than forward and it just looks horribly akward, this compared with someone like Sori who creates power effortlessly - another aggresive counterpuncher and probably a better example than the aforementioned players. And variety, what variety? Bar that ugly two handed slice backhand that makes me want to puke everytime I see it and also the moonballs she does, there's no variety. I know she isn't a pusher as such, she hits deep and fairly heavy balls, but it certainly isn't aggresive and also there certainly isn't much variety. Its obviously effective though, shes definatly a poor man's Jankovic - pre-the second half of 08, but in that second half after Wimbledon, JJ changed. She became much more aggresive and is, well was much faster than Caro and became a pretty great and exciting player as a result and her results back that up - 3 tournies in row, USO final, YEC SF + World no.1, but Caro can't do that. She simply doesnt have anywhere near the technique of JJs, and doesn't have anywhere near the timing of JJs. Shes making the best of what she's got, though.

:lol: I was already rofl when I got to "Bar that ugly two handed slice backhand that makes me want to puke everytime I see it and also the moonballs she does..."

You're almost cracking me up with every post of yours. :worship:

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:51 PM
Razzano has also played more top 10 players though. It's not Caro's fault that most of the top 10 is too shit to get to the later stages of an event and therefore she can't face them.

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
I was curious so I checked some of their H2H (just picked those vs slam winners)

Azarenka :
1-0 vs Sharapova
1-0 Ivanovic
2-0 Mauresmo
1-4 vs Kuzzy (but won the last match)
1-2 vs Serena
0-1 vs Venus

Wozniacki :
0-4 vs Venus
0-1 vs Serena
0-2 vs Sharapova
1-2 vs Sveta
1-0 vs Mauresmo
0-2 vs Ivanovic

I didn't look at their H2H against the other top players but I suppose the pattern is the same.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:03 PM
I was curious so I checked some of their H2H (just picked those vs slam winners)

Azarenka :
1-0 vs Sharapova
1-0 Ivanovic
2-0 Mauresmo
1-4 vs Kuzzy (but won the last match)
1-2 vs Serena
0-1 vs Venus

Wozniacki :
0-4 vs Venus
0-1 vs Serena
0-2 vs Sharapova
1-2 vs Sveta
1-0 vs Mauresmo
0-2 vs Ivanovic

I didn't look at their H2H against the other top players but I suppose the pattern is the same.


But a lot of Azarenka wins there (Serena, Kuzzy, Ivanovic) have come in her 19th year and Caroline hasn't even entered her 19th year yet.

AnnaK_4ever
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Razzano has also played more top 10 players though. It's not Caro's fault that most of the top 10 is too shit to get to the later stages of an event and therefore she can't face them.

:lol:

She could have faced a top-tenner at the Oz but lost early. She could have faced a top-tenner at RG but lost early. She lost to the first top-tenner she met at IW, Rome and Madrid. She skipped a Premier 5 event in Dubai to play a MM tournament in Memphis and got her ass kicked by Azarenka.
But of course she defeated Dementieva twice and we all know Dementieva has been in a superb form since Australia :eek:

GOATniacki rules!

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:08 PM
I was curious so I checked some of their H2H (just picked those vs slam winners)

Azarenka :
1-0 vs Sharapova
1-0 Ivanovic
2-0 Mauresmo
1-4 vs Kuzzy (but won the last match)
1-2 vs Serena
0-1 vs Venus

Wozniacki :
0-4 vs Venus
0-1 vs Serena
0-2 vs Sharapova
1-2 vs Sveta
1-0 vs Mauresmo
0-2 vs Ivanovic

I didn't look at their H2H against the other top players but I suppose the pattern is the same.

Only 2 of those wins came in 2008 btw. And to be fair, her losses against Ana came at Ana's peak can't same the same about Vika's. To be HONEST, there is nothing impressive about either's H2H!

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:11 PM
If Caro's opponents could beat them, surely Caro could too. Caro already beat the number one seed of this tournament three times in a row this year.

Dementieva is the only Top 10 player Caro has beaten this year and only twice (exhibitions don't count--not sure if you're the poster who said he only started following tennis because of Caro :confused:).

She's lost to Bepa, Sveta, Vika, Serena, and Dina. She's had other losses too, but these are the top 10 ones. And none of those girls are unbeatable a la Henin in her prime. Caro just doesn't have the talent or weapons to trouble the top players. I know Caro fans might not like to deal with reality, but I wish one of them would own up. I have no problem criticizing my faves about their obvious flaws/issues. I don't like Caro's style of play, mainly because I think it is inefficient to ascend to the elite level of the game. She just doesn't have the skills to trouble the majority of Top players. :shrug: Her results speak to this fact. She and her fans should be very proud of everything she has achieved to this point, but none of her results have been overly impressive IMO.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:15 PM
Dementieva is the only Top 10 player Caro has beaten this year and only twice (exhibitions don't count--not sure if you're the poster who said he only started following tennis because of Caro :confused:).

She beat Azarenka at Fed Cup this year. One point from beating Serena. She's clearly improving. It's only a matter of time before she's beating top 10 players more consistently. Azarenka wasn't exactly tearing up the top 10 when she was 18 either.

Wiggly
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:16 PM
The thing is, Azarenka plays to win, Wozniacki is trying not to lose.

It's very effective but when you face someone who's attacking you with her a game, all the defence in the world will not help you.

See Charleston.

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:20 PM
She beat Azarenka at Fed Cup this year. One point from beating Serena. She's clearly improving. It's only a matter of time before she's beating top 10 players more consistently. Azarenka wasn't exactly tearing up the top 10 when she was 18 either.

I'm too tired to look up Vika's Top 10 win count from last season. The clear difference is that she's always had THE GAME TO DO IT. Vika's problem was never her game, it was her mental ability to keep it together. Caro has the opposite problem. Good mentality, but limited game ability. Can you see the distinction here? Because if you can't you are going to be very confused about the trajectory of Caro's career. But don't say I never warned you. :angel:

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Only 2 of those wins came in 2008 btw. And to be fair, her losses against Ana came at Ana's peak can't same the same about Vika's. To be HONEST, there is nothing impressive about either's H2H!

Well, I'm by no mean a fan of Vika and I can't say I have ever really been impressed by her, but I must recognize that now she got her emotions a bit under control the girl has some results.Not a lot of players (let alone youngsters)can say she has wins over Serena, Maria, Ana, Amelie etc...One fluke win here and there ok but it's not easy to beat all of them at least one.You need to have some game.
Caroline wins over Elena or Sveta don't make the same impression imo.

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:27 PM
:lol:

She could have faced a top-tenner at the Oz but lost early. She could have faced a top-tenner at RG but lost early. She lost to the first top-tenner she met at IW, Rome and Madrid. She skipped a Premier 5 event in Dubai to play a MM tournament in Memphis and got her ass kicked by Azarenka.
But of course she defeated Dementieva twice and we all know Dementieva has been in a superb form since Australia :eek:

GOATniacki rules!


Caro was not top 10 during AO and was injured when she lost her match at the FO. Anyway we're not talking about why she lost those matches but why she doesn't face top players more often. In Madrid all the times she was meant to face top ten players , they all lost prior to the final , same with a lot of other tournaments. On a normal day , Caro lives up to her ranking. As we're told all the time on this forum. being a top player is about consistency , if you're supposedly a top player and do well in Slams but then lose to relative non-entities outside of them quite a lot then your status as a top 10 player is no better than someone who wins against nearly everyone ranked lower than them but gets occasional wins over top tenners.

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:28 PM
Well, I'm by no mean a fan of Vika and I can't say I have ever really been impressed by her, but I must recognize that now she got her emotions a bit under control the girl has some results.No a lot of players (let alone youngsters)can say she has wins over Serena, Maria, Ana, Amelie etc...One fluke win here and there ok but it's not easy to beat all of them at least one.You need to have some game.
Caroline wins over Elena or Sveta don't make the same impression imo.

Yes. Vika has the game suited of a future Grand Slam champion. And now more than ever she is having the mentality of one as well. I know Caro's fans are hoping that one Slam will be so decimated that she will not have to play any top 10 players other than Dementieva on a catwalk draw to the title, but this is highly unlikely. Honestly, that is the only way she could possibly ever win a Slam with the limitations in her game.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:29 PM
I'm too tired to look up Vika's Top 10 win count from last season. The clear difference is that she's always had THE GAME TO DO IT. Vika's problem was never her game, it was her mental ability to keep it together. Caro has the opposite problem. Good mentality, but limited game ability. Can you see the distinction here? Because if you can't you are going to be very confused about the trajectory of Caro's career. But don't say I never warned you. :angel:

The way I see it the mental aspect is PART of the game. Winning a slam for example is probably 70% mental or something. Everyone knows how to return a ball under normal circumstances, but in a slam final, the pressure can change everything if you don't have the mental toughness to handle it. Basically all your skills, large weapon arsenal etc. go out the window if you fall apart mentally and you'll miss shots you don't normally miss. Caroline is young and already improving in terms of technique so I'm not worried in that regard. I'd be more worried if she had a Chakvetadze mentality :help:

Melly Flew Us
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:32 PM
i wondered why there were so many posts and then i remembered the stop the pusher campaign.

CloudAtlas
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:37 PM
i wondered why there were so many posts and then i remembered the stop the pusher campaign.



Calling it a campaign is pushing it to be honest , it's more like a extended comment. ;)

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:39 PM
i wondered why there were so many posts and then i remembered the stop the pusher campaign.

Well, it has probably more to do with me taking a cheapshot at Azarenka and the some of her most avid supporters (in response to one of them taking an even bigger cheapshot at Caroline earlier). But hey, if Azarenka-Wozniacki is the future rivalry of women's tennis, we might as well get started now :lol:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:40 PM
Wozniacki has not beaten a serious rival in Finals yet :)

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Calling it a campaign is pushing it to be honest , it's more like a extended comment. ;)

Oh no, you didn't!!!

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:43 PM
The way I see it the mental aspect is PART of the game. Winning a slam for example is probably 70% mental or something. Everyone knows how to return a ball under normal circumstances, but in a slam final, the pressure can change everything if you don't have the mental toughness to handle it. Basically all your skills, large weapon arsenal etc. go out the window if you fall apart mentally and you'll miss shots you don't normally miss. Caroline is young and already improving in terms of technique so I'm not worried in that regard. I'd be more worried if she had a Chakvetadze mentality :help:

:confused: We agree that Caro has a great mental toughness. I just don't think she has the game or ability to ever wind up in a GS final where that would be to her advantage. Tier II Eastbourne against Razzano? Caro's got that on lock as we saw today. But do you honestly think there is ever going to be a Razzano/Wozniacki or Wozniak/Wozniacki Grand Slam final (i.e. Caro would have a great shot to win)?? I. Just. Don't. If I were a fan of hers, I'd hope one GS she'd get a killer draw and make a SF run like Stosur did at RG this year. I honestly think that is all she is capable of. And I do not think her youth is a factor. It's her GAME that is the problem.

Noctis
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:44 PM
Cant blame her.The So call decent Players dont manage to reach the final.

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:45 PM
:confused: We agree that Caro has a great mental toughness. I just don't think she has the game or ability to ever wind up in a GS final where that would be to her advantage. Tier II Eastbourne against Razzano? Caro's got that on lock as we saw today. But do you honestly think there is ever going to be a Razzano/Wozniacki or Wozniak/Wozniacki Grand Slam final (i.e. Caro would have a great shot to win)?? I. Just. Don't. If I were a fan of hers, I'd hope one GS she'd get a killer draw and make a SF run like Stosur did at RG this year. I honestly think that is all she is capable of. And I do not think her youth is a factor. It's her GAME that is the problem.

It's the WTA. We almost had Cirstea-Stosur GS final at the French this year ;)

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM
Wozniacki has not beaten a serious rival in Finals yet :)

She broke Chakky's finals record in New Haven last year ;)

homogenius
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM
She broke Chakky's finals record in New Haven last year ;)

lol

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
What a bitch to have though!

Vika at Slams

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
7/4 4r 3r 3r 1r
FRENCH OPEN
7/4 QF 4r 1r 1r
WIMBLEDON
4/3- 3r 3r 1r
US OPEN
7/3- 3r 4r 3r

Caro's Slam Record

AUSTRALIAN OPEN
5/2 3r 4r-
FRENCH OPEN
4/3 3r 3r 1r
WIMBLEDON
3/2- 3r 2r
US OPEN
4/2- 4r 2r

Vika reached her 1st Slam QF in her 14th slam - notice her first 3 slams ended in the first round.
Caro's 14th Slam will be Wimbledon 2010. IMHO, she should make it here.

First Three years on tour

Vika -
2006 92
2005 146
2004 506

Caro -
2008 12
2007 64
2006 237

Make your own decisions :shrug: Fun argument :lol: Rarely say that!
And? As I said before, Tati was a top 30 player in her first full year on tour, but it was Maria who won the three slams. Age means nothing stop bringing age into it. Its not even like she's had a big win, shes just gradually built her rank up beating all the people she should have. Usually if you haven't had a big win, massive unexpected result or a titanic classic battle with a top player by the time you're 18, you aint winning a slam.
ZING!






But Azarenka is more talented! I can prove it!
Indeed. :kiss:
If Caro's opponents could beat them, surely Caro could too. Caro already beat the number one seed of this tournament three times in a row this year.
Oh please. Beating Demented this year has been a formality for most players in the top 30. :tape:

kman
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
Anyway, I'm off to bed. It was fun.

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:51 PM
She broke Chakky's finals record in New Haven last year ;)

Not an impressive win

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:52 PM
She broke Chakky's finals record in New Haven last year ;)
Bad example. :tape:

Slutiana
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:53 PM
It's the WTA. We almost had Cirstea-Stosur GS final at the French this year ;)
Cirstea will probably go on to be a better player than Wozniacki, her game just needs a bit more development. As I said, age is nothing.

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:53 PM
And just for reference, I am not an Azarenka fan in the slightest so hopefully that shows that my feelings towards Caro are not biased in any way. :shrug: I have no personal agenda against Wozniacki. She has rarely, if ever, beaten any of my favorite players IIRC. I just speak the truth as a fan of women's tennis. I just don't think she's that talented and doesn't have what it takes to achieve the highest goals in the sport. All of her results have been unimpressive and if that makes me a hater to keep on mentioning it. Well, then :devil:

OH my GOD! I am actually pissing myself!!!!!

Look at your signature!!

delicatecutter
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:53 PM
And just for reference, I am not an Azarenka fan in the slightest so hopefully that shows that my feelings towards Caro are not biased in any way. :shrug: I have no personal agenda against Wozniacki. She has rarely, if ever, beaten any of my favorite players IIRC. I just speak the truth as a fan of women's tennis. I just don't think she's that talented and doesn't have what it takes to achieve the highest goals in the sport. All of her results have been unimpressive and if that makes me a hater to keep on mentioning it? Well, then :devil:

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:54 PM
I know it's Anna, it's Anna Crapvedatze, it's Anna 'I Suck' Chakvedatze, it's Anna 'noone can spell your second name' Chakverdateze! But there are some players that don't just show up in finals - and with all her crapness she just isn't one of them :D

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:54 PM
Cirstea will probably go on to be a better player than Wozniacki, her game just needs a bit more development. As I said, age is nothing.

:haha:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dodoboy.
Jun 20th, 2009, 10:57 PM
And? As I said before, Tati was a top 30 player in her first full year on tour, but it was Maria who won the three slams. Age means nothing stop bringing age into it. Its not even like she's had a big win, shes just gradually built her rank up beating all the people she should have. Usually if you haven't had a big win, massive unexpected result or a titanic classic battle with a top player by the time you're 18, you aint winning a slam.

Indeed. :kiss:

Oh please. Beating Demented this year has been a formality for most players in the top 30. :tape:

OK, we'll see :D

Vika will probably win a slam first, however, with that said :shrug:

SIN DIOS NI LEY
Jun 20th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Cirstea will probably go on to be a better player than Wozniacki, her game just needs a bit more development. As I said, age is nothing.

No

If Cirstea spends one week as top 15 I will be :speakles: . I donīt think she will , her game is too weak

Patrick345
Jun 20th, 2009, 11:25 PM
The thing is, Azarenka plays to win, Wozniacki is trying not to lose.

It's very effective but when you face someone who's attacking you with her a game, all the defence in the world will not help you.

See Charleston.

Exactly. The game is clearly evolving in that direction.

poulao
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:02 AM
If some of you ask somone hwo has done it in tennis, like Wilander, Edberg, Navratilova etc. They would say, that it is the most agressive player that wins. The player that takes the risks. No, but that would be there interpritation. So they would see being defensive as a risk, the same way as being offensive as a risk. Nadal chalanges you, 'You can't hit trough me'. It can be done, Søderling did it. But we all agree, that Nadal is a great champ. Or Federer chalanges you 'There are 5sets, you have not won by taking two, you stil needs one more', and is he not a great champ, but that's Grand Slam for men. Remember the women final in Paris, how did she do it? I listen to a bit of Sharapovas interview, after she lost in Paris, after having seen the match. It was emaresing to listen to. So pleace Caro, play youre tennis, and don't listen to the fools. Congrats you are the champ becase you are doing it! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

RenaSlam.
Jun 21st, 2009, 01:08 AM
Well done, Caro!

kman
Jun 21st, 2009, 08:30 AM
The thing is, Azarenka plays to win, Wozniacki is trying not to lose.

It's very effective but when you face someone who's attacking you with her a game, all the defence in the world will not help you.

See Charleston.

That was a fluke win. What has Sabine done since then? Nothing. She was lucky Caroline had played 23034434 matches before that final so she was exhausted and could barely move.

Caroline still made the final so it was a good result for her.

Iceland
Jun 21st, 2009, 08:41 AM
That was a fluke win. What has Sabine done since then? Nothing. She was lucky Caroline had played 23034434 matches before that final so she was exhausted and could barely move. .
How do you think Wozniacki made it to top ten? :tape:

kman
Jun 21st, 2009, 09:18 AM
How do you think Wozniacki made it to top ten? :tape:

By consistency. The exact opposite of what Sabine is showing (and I like Sabine, see my sig).

Iceland
Jun 21st, 2009, 09:40 AM
By consistency. The exact opposite of what Sabine is showing (and I like Sabine, see my sig).
No. Correst answer is by playing every single week and then being consistent. So don't complain about how tired she was and so on.

kman
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:31 AM
No. Correst answer is by playing every single week and then being consistent. So don't complain about how tired she was and so on.

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's the reason she lost the final the way she did.

And she could've skipped several tournaments and double matches and still be top 10 considering how many points there is down to no. 10 and no. 11.

But like I said, I still consider Charleston final a good result.

Viktymise
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:31 AM
I know it's Anna, it's Anna Crapvedatze, it's Anna 'I Suck' Chakvedatze, it's Anna 'noone can spell your second name' Chakverdateze! But there are some players that don't just show up in finals - and with all her crapness she just isn't one of them :D

Crapvetadze > anything Borz has ever done.

diane10
Jun 21st, 2009, 10:39 AM
Congrats Caro:hug::banana:

Virginie:awww:

Corswandt
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:29 AM
Never in doubt.

Second year in a row that Eastbourne is won by a flat out pusher.

Too bad for Razzano, but I needed something to keep me entertained through the first week of Wimbledon, and it looks like grassGOAT "Caro" hype will have to do.

She isn't a pusher? Watch again the 1st set SPs., which "Caro" did absolutely nothing to win. It's not what a player does when up *3-1, 40-0 that determines whether she's a pusher or an aggressive player; it's how they play the decisive points that really shows what their true instincts are.

Re: the "bitterjealoush8t0r" tag, I don't even hate on Wozniacki. I scan the draws as soon as they come out to see if the players I genuinely hate (like say Radwanska) have a catwalk draw so that I can then whine about their neverending luck and go on to dismiss their wins as worthless. I have no idea in which section of the Wimbledon draw "Caro" currently is because I don't even rate her as a threat. She fails dismally at impersonating a top player (since she can't possibly be asked to actually play like one) in a way that I can't remember any recent top tenner doing. Judging by the confidence which she displays oncourt, I suppose that she believes that talk about how she'll improve her game massively that I hear so often from the "Caro" apologists, even though all evidence points to the contrary.

frenchie
Jun 21st, 2009, 11:38 AM
Congrats Caro!

The board will crash at the end of the year when you'll be in the top 5

Shley
Jun 21st, 2009, 12:33 PM
I find it amazing how much energy all you people put into discussing whether Caro is a "pusher" or for that matter any other player. Since their is no clear definition, that you all agree on, it all comes down too your subjective opinions, which makes it an utterly useless subject to discuss. You all either care to much about what others think and therfore try to convince them of something that you never will agree on or you all care to much about declaring your opinions to the world.

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/02/xkcdwrongoninternet.jpg

Pusher or not: yeah caro, best of luck virginie

Slutiana
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:28 PM
Razzano has also played more top 10 players though. It's not Caro's fault that most of the top 10 is too shit to get to the later stages of an event and therefore she can't face them.
No one is saying that, its obvious that she has a good enough game top beat 95% of the people outside of the top 30 consistently. But you guys are overrating her way too much. If she comes up against a decent player playing well, its also 95% sure that caro is toast. We saw it vs Dokic, vs Kuzzy, vs Dinara and vs Caro. If she ever won a slam, her run would be the most catwalkish ever. Im not even saying it to be mean or rude or hate on her for the sake of it, but likelyhood is, if she has just an average draw, there will likely be someone who is just better than her in every department. see those examples again.
The thing is, Azarenka plays to win, Wozniacki is trying not to lose.

It's very effective but when you face someone who's attacking you with her a game, all the defence in the world will not help you.

See Charleston.
Amen.
Caro was not top 10 during AO and was injured when she lost her match at the FO. Anyway we're not talking about why she lost those matches but why she doesn't face top players more often. In Madrid all the times she was meant to face top ten players , they all lost prior to the final , same with a lot of other tournaments. On a normal day , Caro lives up to her ranking. As we're told all the time on this forum. being a top player is about consistency , if you're supposedly a top player and do well in Slams but then lose to relative non-entities outside of them quite a lot then your status as a top 10 player is no better than someone who wins against nearly everyone ranked lower than them but gets occasional wins over top tenners.
She was like 11 or 12th, big difference. She's only been top 10 for a few weeks anyway. And seriously, :tape: stop using that excuse. Her shoulder was a bit tired and her serve wasn't as potent but #1 Serve doesn't even have as much as an effect on matches on clay, #2 I saw the whole match and it was Sori's play that decided it, not any of Caro's "injuries".
:haha:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop laughing. Sorana's simply a better player and more talented. And her game itself isnt massive risk either, its not like Caro is getting much higher than #9. :tape:

Slutiana
Jun 21st, 2009, 02:31 PM
Anyways im out of here, I guess there's no convincing y'all of the truth, that Caro wont go much higher than #9 and WONT ever win a slam. It was fun. :bigwave:

Ryan
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:04 PM
Anyways im out of here, I guess there's no convincing y'all of the truth, that Caro wont go much higher than #9 and WONT ever win a slam. It was fun. :bigwave:



Still more than Tati ever achieved. :sobbing:

Ryan
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:06 PM
Never in doubt.

Second year in a row that Eastbourne is won by a flat out pusher.

Too bad for Razzano, but I needed something to keep me entertained through the first week of Wimbledon, and it looks like grassGOAT "Caro" hype will have to do.

She isn't a pusher? Watch again the 1st set SPs., which "Caro" did absolutely nothing to win. It's not what a player does when up *3-1, 40-0 that determines whether she's a pusher or an aggressive player; it's how they play the decisive points that really shows what their true instincts are.

Re: the "bitterjealoush8t0r" tag, I don't even hate on Wozniacki. I scan the draws as soon as they come out to see if the players I genuinely hate (like say Radwanska) have a catwalk draw so that I can then whine about their neverending luck and go on to dismiss their wins as worthless. I have no idea in which section of the Wimbledon draw "Caro" currently is because I don't even rate her as a threat. She fails dismally at impersonating a top player (since she can't possibly be asked to actually play like one) in a way that I can't remember any recent top tenner doing. Judging by the confidence which she displays oncourt, I suppose that she believes that talk about how she'll improve her game massively that I hear so often from the "Caro" apologists, even though all evidence points to the contrary.



You're so pathetic sometimes. :lol: You're so cutting about people who've achieved more in their 18 years than you probably have in your whole life. :( By the way, its cakewalk - not catwalk.

Viktymise
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:09 PM
You're so cutting about people who've achieved more in their 18 years than you probably have in your whole life.

So what, nobody on TF can pass judgement on a tennis player because they've achieved more than we have? :weirdo:

Might as well shut down the forum now.

Ryan
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:28 PM
So what, nobody on TF can pass judgement on a tennis player because they've achieved more than we have? :weirdo:

Might as well shut down the forum now.



Did I say that? :weirdo: I just said he's extremely harsh towards a really successful 18-year old. Not that he can't pass judgment on her game, just that he's being extremely critical and scathing.

The Dawntreader
Jun 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM
Did I say that? :weirdo: I just said he's extremely harsh towards a really successful 18-year old. Not that he can't pass judgment on her game, just that he's being extremely critical and scathing.

Such is life.