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franzit
Sep 8th, 2002, 10:53 AM
http://old.ole.com.ar/diario/2002/09/07/t-440697.htm

Again, the ghost of doping flies over by a match of Grand Slam. In June, during Roland Garros, the French newspaper "Le Monde" published that two positive cases had been detected, of a man and a woman. The source of this information was of the Council of Prevention of Fight against Doping (CPLD).

Yesterday, in Flushing, the Argentine journalist Guillermo Salatino, reporter for "la Red", could find out that that information would be true. " In the case of the man one would be top ten and the found substance, xilocaína, reason why its sanction would be slight. In the case of the woman, it would be being been speaking of a first figure. Its case would be resonant like the one of Ben Johnson(disqualified in Seoul Olimpics), is of the same color, " even told Salatino to the air. Consulted by Olé, Salata told that " this information comes from a reliable person, who has been many years in tennis. If everything goes by the normal tracks, the next week will be made official ".

This doping was a year moved in the subject. The last month was sanctioned the Spanish Lourdes Domínguez Lino by cocaine consumption. In May, the French Nicholas Escude and Fabrice Santoro had blamed the ATP of " Mafia " by their slight controls and the Spanish Sergi Bruguera affirmed to the newspaper the Country that " surely there is doping in tennis ".


I'm sorry for traslation ...I hope an Argentinian can do it better...
Comments coming up....

irma
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:04 AM
so the man is in the top 10 and the women is a first figure in tennis? but everybody was playing the us open but thomas johannson! so if a player from the top 5 was caught, why did she play here?

Nacho
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:22 AM
:confused: :confused:

Zamboni
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:25 AM
So what more do we really know now?

Nothing! ;)

irma
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:28 AM
how frustrating, I think I take a trip to paris tomorrow to find out myself:p

Monica_Rules
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:49 AM
Interesting but who is it?

franzit
Sep 8th, 2002, 01:21 PM
to Irma: this control was made by a French agency...so who is detected positive ,risks just a ban for French tournaments unless ITF and WTA won't consider these controls as being worth even for a general disqualification.
About the woman player ,Salatino(very famous tennis writer,a respectable source) says something I'm not able to understand very well :"
En el caso de la mujer, se estaría hablando de una primerísima figura. Su caso sería resonante como el de Ben Johnson, incluso es del mismo color "

The litteral traslation would be:
"In the case of woman (player), we talk about a very important figure. Its case will be clangorous like the one of Ben Johnson,is even of same color"

It's clear if this is the exact traslation ,he talks about one of Williams sisters...and this is probably the reason results of these controls are so late to be published.:confused:

2284
Sep 8th, 2002, 01:27 PM
Does anyone know for sure who they are?

Greenout
Sep 8th, 2002, 03:58 PM
Who is it? I don't think it's fair to all the players if
obscure clues are tossed out.

If it's still in doubt,
and the substance is not one that is outlawed by
the Olympic committee or doping censors of the sports
world then it shouldn't be brought up.

It only matters if the substance is a known "steriod"
or one that is proven to enhance an sportsperson's
abilities to the point of giving an un-fair advantage.

Greenout
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:04 PM
Who is it? I don't think it's fair to all the players if
obscure clues are tossed out.

If it's still in doubt,
and the substance is not one that is outlawed by
the Olympic committee or doping censors of the sports
world then it shouldn't be brought up.

It only matters if the substance is a known "steriod"
or one that is proven to enhance an sportsperson's
abilities to the point of giving an un-fair advantage.

Greenout
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:05 PM
I just did some quick research on the web.

Xilocaine is a pain killer.
It's not a technically a banned substance
if it used alot with something else as an
injection.

CC
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:08 PM
Does the writer mean the color (type) of substance, or the color of the man, Ben Johnson? If she means skin complexion, then there are only so few black female players. If it has nothing to do with Venus or Serena, then alluding to "the color" only helps to feed resentful rumors.

Greenout
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:11 PM
CC- Maybe the translations are mixed up.
You can't really go by literal computer translations
of foreign languages.

CC
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:17 PM
That's what I realize. We need a better translation.

Jay
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:28 PM
Maybe the translations are not mixed up and maybe the journo is hinting that it's either Serena or Venus Williams.

One thing is for sure, if he does say who the player is and it is a top 5 player you can bet your life that there will be an uproar from the relevant Williams/Capriati/Seles/Dokic fans and the board would be flying with accusations that this journo is lying and making it all up to get attention for himself blah blah blah

Then when/if the results are confirmed the same group of fans will be claiming that the result means nothing, that it's flawed, the samples were contaminated, that the substance in question although being banned doesn't effect performance etc. etc. etc.

tenn_ace
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:38 PM
could we just stop throwing names out there? nobody on this board knows the truth and it's REALLY UNFARE to the players whose names were mentioned...

tennisfun
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:44 PM
Now you are suggesting it's one of the sisters. Don't know what's your motive. Maybe you have the sixth sense as a second class journalist yourslef to think thats what that artical is talking about. Maybe that player is Dokic, and I think it's very likely since she played every week, she sure needed some supply.

Jay
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:46 PM
sod the players !

here's a human translation of the relevant part:

in the male's case he would be a top ten player and the substance found was xilocaina so his punishment should be not too grave.

In the female's case we would be talking about a very important player, her case would be as important as Ben Johnson's one, she's even the same colour as him.

rated_next
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:51 PM
I just want to know who the two players are.

tennisfun
Sep 8th, 2002, 04:57 PM
Reading your post again I had the impression that you are on that sustance youself. If it's true, surely that sustance does enhance performance judging by your performance here.

Jay
Sep 8th, 2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by tennisfun
Reading your post again I had the impression that you are on that sustance youself. If it's true, surely that sustance does enhance performance judging by your performance here.

this is my original post and I can't see anything that's barmy about it, in fact your reaction has proved my points.

"Maybe the translations are not mixed up and maybe the journo is hinting that it's either Serena or Venus Williams.

One thing is for sure, if he does say who the player is and it is a top 5 player you can bet your life that there will be an uproar from the relevant Williams/Capriati/Seles/Dokic fans and the board would be flying with accusations that this journo is lying and making it all up to get attention for himself blah blah blah

Then when/if the results are confirmed the same group of fans will be claiming that the result means nothing, that it's flawed, the samples were contaminated, that the substance in question although being banned doesn't effect performance etc. etc. etc."

tennisfun
Sep 8th, 2002, 05:19 PM
OH REALLY? You think you are smart to change the subject and no one would not see your true colour? Coward! If you want to stir up some contraversal without any evidence , then you should have the guts to take the heat. Maybe your so called disappointment at Venus during Wimbledon just gave you enough courage to fart, but not to take the consequence.

Hulet
Sep 8th, 2002, 06:09 PM
I got this tiny info on the procedure of announcing the players caught doping from the CPLD website (I used a translating program to translate back to English; if anyone could do a better translation, please do so):

http://www.cpld.fr/edito/cpld/missions/pouvoir.htm

General information
the Council exerts its disciplinary responsibilities mainly in four cases:
1 It is seized by office when the disciplinary bodies of a sporting federation (first authority and call) did not rule in the intended deadlines by the law.
2 It can, of its own initiative, to reform any decision of sanction or release taken by the disciplinary body of a federation.
3 It is qualified to sanction the not fired people having taken part in competitions or sporting events.
4 It can, of its own initiative or at the request of the federation, to decide the extension of a disciplinary action imposed by a federation to the activities of the concerning interested party other federations.
The decree n°2000-274 of March 24, 2000 fixes the procedure applicable to the sportsmen having been checked positive. This decree gives to the Council the instruments necessary to exert its disciplinary power effectively, while guaranteeing the respect of the rights of the defense of the sportsmen. After its seizure, the Council can return its decisions within ten week in order to ensure all the stages of the procedure the respect of the rights of defense. All information relating to controls antidopage is seized on a strictly confidential basis of data, which was the subject of a declaration near the national Commission of data processing and freedoms. Collected information makes it possible to ensure the follow-up of the sportsmen, whom they made the object of a positive or negative control, and to draw up the official statistics relating to doping.

------------------------------------------------------

It says somewhere the procedure of appeal and the like takes 10 weeks after the first testing. It has been 12 weeks since the end of the FO. So, why is taking them so long to make their results public?

Zamboni
Sep 8th, 2002, 06:14 PM
Quite a weird statement, if the translation is correct!

I only wish the ATP/WTA/ITF would give us the names and substances, and deal with it!

Gallofa
Sep 8th, 2002, 06:33 PM
Seeing as spanish is my mother tongue, I'll try to translate this for you guys.

It does literally say "it is of the same color" - now this can be taken literally, and then it means that the person suspect of doping is of the same color as Ben Johnson. But it is also an idiom, when you say something is "of the same color" you can mean that it is of the same kind, category, or in this case, relevance. Ben Johnson case was an extremelly high profile case, if this case is of the same color, it's equally high profile.

I feel the double meaning is not unintentional, he hints that is very high profile and to get attention, equals it to Ben Johnson, playing with the double meaning.

I guess we can only wait and see if there is any truth to this. We should know soon enough.

Jay
Sep 8th, 2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by tennisfun
OH REALLY? You think you are smart to change the subject and no one would not see your true colour? Coward! If you want to stir up some contraversal without any evidence , then you should have the guts to take the heat. Maybe your so called disappointment at Venus during Wimbledon just gave you enough courage to fart, but not to take the consequence.

Fuck you, I'll take any consequences going and not think twice about stirring up any shit that's being thrown at a player. I don't give a toss who the player is, Venus, Serena, Jennifer, Monica, Jelena or any of the others. They are all fair game as far as Im concerned.

"The gloves are off" and it's open season on all of the WTA and the ATP and if there's any dirt out there it's going on the wire.

You say it's not fair to the players, I say sod the players, nothing in life is fair.

selesfan
Sep 8th, 2002, 10:03 PM
"The gloves are off" and it's open season on all of the WTA and the ATP and if there's any dirt out there it's going on the wire.

Why do you post on a womens tennis board? You don't seem to like tennis and never post anything but controversial threads about certain players.:rolleyes:

Canek
Sep 8th, 2002, 10:25 PM
i speak spanish, and reading the redaction of this article that quotes Guillermo Salatino, and since i know him pretty well, could be truth. I use to hear his daily reports on the radio, and her comments on TV, he is the main commentator of Tennis for "Fox Sports Latin America".
well, explaining this, in my opinion he insinuates that is a "black player" not that, "is the same type of the Johnson's doping", but the same "color of skin".
well if this is truth (maybe salatino was misquoated) there are just three choices: Venus, Serena or Chanda. In the last case i don't think so because Salatino said "Primerísima Figura" a tennis super star, and Chanda is a great player, but not a "primerísima figura".
as somebody said, let's wait what happens this week

Aylafr
Sep 8th, 2002, 10:30 PM
eta psi, your translation from French to English is correct.

We surely won't know everything. I have an idea that I will keep for myself, but nonetheless, I'm pretty sure the journalist didn't chose the case of Ben Johnson for no reason. Maybe he meant the same steroid ? Or same color. Or, it will be as big (same repercussions). We don't have enough information about it to drw conclusions, however, we all have the right, uder some facts and circunstamnces, to have an opinion of who it could be : let me remind you that steroids make you change too, your body gets bigger. It could have been Mary Pierce too, but she's not a top figure anymore. Look who's on top, look who's got a large body and ... wait to know the truth ! (and thus see if you'll be a good detective)

Jay
Sep 8th, 2002, 10:45 PM
tennisfun, selesfun

love the replies ;)

ps
I had fuck all to do with this 'controversial' thread. I didn't post it nor was I the source for it. I just pointed out that when it's confirmed the revelant group of fans are going to bitch and whine and start looking for excuses. In this case it looks like being the Williams fans but the same bitching would have applied if it had been Seles, Dokic etc.

Yeah Canek, my translation was from an Argentine and she said the same thing about him being well known and respected etc.

franzit
Sep 8th, 2002, 11:32 PM
Usually this agency is very fast to publish names of doped athlets ( I think it's the same what controls all sport events in France...so the Tour ,too). Thus I think Salatino,a sort of Sudamerican Bud Collins(less old ,though), says " if everything goes by the normal tracks"...off course ATP and Wta have all interests to cover this fact...well,we'll see what 'll happen

Andre@
Sep 9th, 2002, 12:27 AM
I read the report and this is the translation made by me.

Another doping again

In June the French newspaper LE MONDE said two tests were doping positive, one man and one woman. The information came from CPLD.

Yesterday in New York the argentine journalist Guillermo Salatino
said:
The man player was positive doping with xilocaina and his suspencion would be soft but the woman player they were talking about a TOP PLAYER.
Her case can be like Ben Johnson and the color skin is the same.

Escude and Santoro this year talked about the ATP doping MAFIA

midora
Sep 9th, 2002, 12:30 AM
Jay

shouldn't you be out stalking the Dokics?

Dawn Marie
Sep 9th, 2002, 01:06 AM
Without a doubt the journalist is refering to a Black player. Comparing Ben Johnson, then color is all one needs to see the truth. So they are claiming without stating facts, that it is either Venus, Serena or Chanda.

This doesn't surprised me, because when V@S won the French Open alot of people didn't like that nor understand that. Two Black power playing women just don't win the French Open,or so alot of people think. It was after this clay court slam, when the Sister Dominating came into effect. Ex-Players began to get upset, aka Gaby Sabitini and a few others. Anyway, that doesn't mean that a black women is in truth the WTA player who was caught doping. This journalist, although I understand her meaning by Ben and color, I just don't find them very professional. So in the end, it could be some top player other then V,S or Chanda. basically although they clearly are aiming at attacking a WTA black player, in the end it could be someone else.

Jay
Sep 9th, 2002, 01:14 AM
Midora, Nikola is the Dokic stalker (he's even admitted it on a Jelena board)

Say again Dawn Marie, you've lost me. This journo seems to very well informed (xilocaína for example) and respected and I can't see him telling porkie pies.

GoDominique
Sep 9th, 2002, 01:17 AM
So basically, Dawn, you accuse him of racism ? :rolleyes:

Hulet
Sep 9th, 2002, 01:19 AM
okay. I just bookmark this thread. ;) I bump it when they annonce the players who doped. Then, we know for sure if this journalist deserved to be really respected or not.

I guess, until then, We/I have to be patient. Time will solve everything.

Greenout
Sep 9th, 2002, 02:30 AM
I give Venus, Serena, and Chanda the benefit of
the doubt of this incident because of what happened
to Lance Armstrong. When he first won the Tour De
France after recovering from cancer; the Euro media
especially the French media were out to prove he
could not have done it by sheer ability. It was a
total lynch mob. They kept on printing articles filled with
innuendo in all the major newspapers. The stories even
floated over the international wire services. The proof said
the accusers was the fact that one of Lance's doctors is a known
"doping" one. Soon fellow rival cyclists, rival teams, non- cycling
people accused Lance of cheating the world's greatest bike
race. It was an ugly affair to say the least. The next season,
the same accusations were brought up, even though it was
never proven that Lance "doped" himself nor the US POSTAL
team to victory in their first Tour De France title. Ok- the
2nd year; US POSTAL and Lance won again. The accusations
came back; this time the media said that it's a cover up. He's
trying to cheat the world not once, but now twice. Lance
wins 3 years in a ROW. Finally the air is cleared. No-
Lance Armstrong and the US POSTAL never failed any drug
tests. In the three years that Lance has been winning, dozens
of his tour rivals, and up and coming rivals were kicked out
of races for "doping".

disposablehero
Sep 9th, 2002, 03:03 AM
If a top women's player is not clean, I hope they don't hush it up. I want a level playing field, as I have the utmost confidence that both of my girls are doing it right.

Dawn Marie
Sep 9th, 2002, 03:15 AM
EXACTLY Greenout.:)

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 9th, 2002, 03:55 AM
does anyone know the substance the woman player is supsected of being on?

deydreemyn
Sep 9th, 2002, 08:47 AM
For selfish reasons I hope it isn't one of my favorites but I'm sure everyone else feels the same way. I will accept it even though I will be thoroughly disappointed.

I do think it should have be announced months ago before two more grand slams had been completed. Who knows, maybe the person with the info was saving it for the most shock value.

If it turns out that the test was positive for a banned substance which would have caused a player to be disqualifed, then the person sitting on that info should be held accountable as well for not releasing it earlier because match outcomes could have been altered based on who might have been disqualified. Just MHO.

:fiery:

Jay
Sep 9th, 2002, 08:51 AM
Just read this e-mail from a good friend who lives in B.A. Argentina and she casts doubt on the source (not the journo but the report of exactly what the journo said) so it might not be the Williams after all.



Hi Jay xxxx

I am having some trouble opening that link cause it says "not available". Are u sure it's the right link? I tried to look for the article by using the searching engine of the site but i didn't got any williams article talking about doping.

Anyways, yesterday, Javier Frana (the former tennis player) who is a commentator for ESPN LAtin America SOUTH, mentioned that there was a positive doping case in the wta from samples taken in Roland Garros this year. This week, the countertest was going to determine the veredict: if it shows another positive result, the wta was going to announce it in a press conference and give the name of the player. But Javier never said the name of a possible player, not even the Williams and trust me, he hates them...hehehe.

Be careful with Diario Ole cause they are yellow sport press here. To give u an idea, they published that Veron commited suicide and that Baggio was gay...so that should say sth about them.

Try to see if u can get into the link and copy and paste the title of the article, or give me the date of the article and i could find it that way. At work they buy that newspaper.

Take care,

Melu xxx =O)

Aylafr
Sep 9th, 2002, 09:58 AM
Thanks for the last info. In the end, we won't know ;) :D This journalist is probably trying to stirr some sh!t, so ..... let's wait and see.

Jay
Sep 9th, 2002, 12:29 PM
Aylafr, my friend Mercedes isn't suggesting that Guillermo Salatino or his collegue Javier Frana is trying to stir some shit or are making things up. She's saying that the source of what it was Salatino actually said (i.e. Ben Johnson etc.) has a rep for making things up.

But there is no doubt that ESPN Latin America seem to be better informed then the rest of the media and that a WTA player has failed a dope test at French Open and the identity should be released at a press conference next week.

I'm still making enquires as to if Guillermo Salatino did say those words on TV/Radio about Ben Johnson and colour etc.

2284
Sep 9th, 2002, 01:02 PM
Should we just send a bulk email petition to the ATP/WTA/ITF to get the exact details of who took what and the consequences so that we can resolve this?

franzit
Sep 9th, 2002, 02:12 PM
In the 99% of cases athlets are again detected positive even to new analisys. ..so the problem is to know if Salatino really said such things to Argentian newspaper. Maybe he confidentially talked to a reporter of "Ole" and they published this discussion...or he never stated it...
About xilocaina,the substance found to atp player,could be used by doctors as anesthesia for Ferrero knee (only top ten to have phisical problems before Paris....I remember he tired to walk too 2 days before his debut.....but ok...we'll see this week...

Monica_Rules
Sep 9th, 2002, 02:16 PM
I just hope we find out who it was/is if this is even true!

supremeross
Sep 9th, 2002, 05:17 PM
Query: "IF" and that's a gigantic "IF", but if it were Serena or Venus, don't you think they would have tested positive again at Wimbledon? Don't all winners of Grand Slams have to automatically be tested for illicit drugs? So if it were Venus or Serena don't you think it would have come up again after Wimbledon where they both made the finals again and won the doubles title?

supremeross
Sep 9th, 2002, 05:25 PM
Query: "IF" and that's a gigantic "IF", but if it were Serena or Venus, don't you think they would have tested positive again at Wimbledon? Don't all winners of Grand Slams have to automatically be tested for illicit drugs? So if it were Venus or Serena don't you think it would have come up again after Wimbledon where they both made the finals again and won the doubles title? Plus with the media being the way that they are, there is no way the media or any tour official would have been able to keep it a secret or underwraps if it were Venus or Serena. It would have gotten out a long time ago if it were.

Zamboni
Sep 9th, 2002, 08:44 PM
Just imagine the fuss if it would be Serena :rolleyes: Not that I think it's her, I have no idea who it is/would be. Probably won't be Martina or Lindsay, but for the others....couldn't think of anyone who I suspect!

ChrisGermany
Sep 9th, 2002, 11:16 PM
I wonder when the first one will name Jennifer in this and accuse her ? :(

I wonder why this never came into the headlines after the French, no TV report mentioned that here, no broadcast of all the other events since then.

Now, Davenport didn´t play the French actually, for those who named Davenport. I doubt that a young girl like Dokic would take something, same with the Belgian girls. Seles ? Are you kiddin´ ?!

It´s logical that it´s about the Williams and Jenn then, but what a scandal this would be : 3 time GS winner or her sister or the comebacker of the last 5 years. I cannot believe it has the effect that the story could have.

Don´t let it be. Couldn´t it be that it´s a FORMER top5 player that is named ?

It´s sad to bring up a story where countless girls with huge crowds of fans here could be the accused one but it´s logical to have a thought, may all the fans forgive me.

I hope it´s not Serena, Venus or Jenn !!! I hope it´s a story without substance and the B-test will be negative ...

Jay
Sep 9th, 2002, 11:42 PM
My friend Mercedes has done a proper translation of that article for me in full (as well as some info on the CPLD) and there's no doubt that it's either Serena or Venus. Chanda is a good player but you wouldn't class her as a 'superstar'. But bear in mind that Mercedes has doubted the integrity of this article. She says don't disbelieve it totally, just be aware that this newspaper may have mis-quoted Salatino. But the info she previously provided about what Javier said is solid.



Doping one more time.

A male top ten and a superstar among the girls might have tested positive.

New York. One more time, the doping ghost flies over the head of a grand slam. In june, during Roland Garros, the french newspaper Le Monde published that two positive cases had been detected, one from a man and another from a woman. The source for such information was from the Prevention fighting council against doping (CPLD???) < check that, i totally made that translation up, lol

Yesterday, in Flushing, the argentine reporter Guillermo Salatino from La Red, could find out that that piece of information might be true. “In the male’s case it would be a top ten and the positive substance, xilocaine (i dunno the word in english for this drug), for what it is suspected that the punishment should be slight. In the female’s case, they are talking about a superstar figure. Her case could be compared to Ben Johnson, what’s more is that she even shares the same skin color”, said Salatino on the air. Consulted by Olé, Salata said that “this information comes from a trustworthy person, who has spent a lot of years in the tennis environment. If everything goes on the ordinary tracks, it will become official next week”.

This has been a moving year in the doping subject. The spaniard Lourdes Dominguez Lino was punished for cocaine consumption last month. In may, the french Nicolás Escude and Fabrice Santoro had acused the ATP of “mafia” due to their light controlling and the spanish Sergi Brugera stated to the El Pais newspaper that “there is doping in tennis with certainty”.

love
Melu xxx

Jay, CPLD means Conseil de Prévention et de Lutte contre le Dopage, and your translation is OK. It's a council created after Tour de France '98 (a strong year for doping). To ake it short, the customs found doping products in a car for use by a French team that had never been caught by the usual anti-doping system. The media rushed on it, and the government decided sthg had to be done and created this council. It now monitors all controls made in sports competition in France, based on each sports specific rules and the IOC's.

Franks rants

"Jimbo you maybe be very right, but I can tell you right now, I am not going to buy another product endorsed by Anna or any of the companies that use her for their products until Anna herself contacts me and explains something about all this."


"I am an Alpha male and would wipe my toilet seat with Enrique. So I am not going to be happy with anyone she see's. I felt much better about the Hockey players because those are men. Respected sports figures. Enrique is a pussy. Anna needs a man in her life not some slimy fag singer dripping with grease."


"Nikola that last picture with his hand on Anna's butt that was the last straw for me. Anna is flat out going out with Enrique. Anna has more than likely been doing all that has been said about her. Anna more than likely did sexually scream all night in the hotel so everyone could hear it (I want a copy of that recording?). "


"If Enrique is banging Anna, he better be good to her because if he is not I will do everything in my power to destroy his music sales. I already think he is really a gay person in hiding I can do more than that little story."

Greenout
Sep 10th, 2002, 02:52 AM
Doping- The thing we have to remember that is
nowadays there are so called "masking agents" that
can prevent certain type of tests. There are also
newer drugs that have a short term effect, and will not
be detected a month later.

Let's just get this out of the way. If someone is
guilty let them face the charges, and the penalty.
I don't care if it's a big star. As long as the
gossip, and accusations are around tennis will never
shine again.

Dawn Marie
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:17 AM
Again, anyone who has no facts, and says that it could be like BEN JOHNSON in comparison and then suggest that it is V or S by mentioning top ten and skin color is full of shit. They are trying to target V@S. Also they are maing slanderous statements. They are pissed that both of them made it to the clay final. Personally I don't think it's V@S but I suspect two players of doping, and both made it past the quarterfinals of the French Open.

Why though is it taking this long to come out with the damn facts? The longer I see no facts the more I say all of it is bullshit.

the cat
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:20 AM
Well said Dawn! But don't you say or intimate who it might be either. Because without proof, it's not fair.

Joseosu19
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:25 AM
I don't think its either of the william's sisters....they are both the size they were when they weren't dominating...

Hurley
Sep 12th, 2002, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by Dawn Marie
Personally I don't think it's V@S but I suspect two players of doping, and both made it past the quarterfinals of the French Open.

So you suspect Capriati and Clarisa Fernandez then?

If you say so, it must be true.

Dawn Marie
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:23 AM
cat are you stupid? I am a FAN not a journalist and If I state in here who I think is doping it will be fair to state. lmao@you. I am not and I repeat a JOURNALIST.

So yeah, I think Jen and Momo both dope. it is my opinion and I have no facts to support my opinion. Just going on a hunch.:)

Dawn Marie
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:32 AM
Sorry, scratch Fernandez and add Momo. I repeat, this is only my opinion, and I could be CLEARLY off here. In fact I probably am.:)

VS Fan
Sep 12th, 2002, 03:33 AM
This whole thread is JUST JUNK.

If Venus or Serena were suspected as early as last May, it would be ALL over the major news outlets. I think that even the original story is either junk or has been discarded. It does not take THREE months to confirn or dismiss such findings.

The not so subtle clues given are also a giveaway to sensationalism and hype. Probably just to sell their stories.

This kind of yellow journalism is sickining.

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:03 AM
This crap is not even in the news here. I guess second world countriess practice second class journalism. Why don't they wait for the facts before casting accusations?

the cat
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:10 AM
Dawn, you're of course entitled to your opinion. I'm sorry I tried to tell you what to do! :eek: My mistake! But I still think specualation as to who might be doping is just that. Speculation.

Canek
Sep 12th, 2002, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by cybelledarkholmexx
This crap is not even in the news here. I guess second world countriess practice second class journalism.
typical gringo "thought"
if you haven't noticed Argentina has more male players in the top 100 than USA:rolleyes: and the usopen doubles champion is from Argentina. pffffffffff
and the intelligence or stupidity is not subject of race or nationality, you should know it.:rolleyes:

Serena y Monica
Sep 12th, 2002, 05:24 AM
Speaking of Argentina...I do believe so far the only substantiated doping this year has been among South Americans...

Dawn Marie
Sep 12th, 2002, 06:01 AM
Cat I agree!:) You know I love yah!;)

Crazy Canuck
Sep 12th, 2002, 06:23 AM
I guess second world countriess practice second class journalism.

That was awfully tactless. It is easy to kick a country when they are down eh?

Some of the worst tennis journalism I have ever read came from Americans, Canadians, and Brits.

I have a feeling that once I learn Spanish and can read more articles, that this won't change.

Jay
Sep 12th, 2002, 08:21 AM
Latest betting from John Power bookmakers:

Serena Williams EVens favourite
Venus Williams 7/4
Jennifer Capriati 4-1
Jelena Dokic 5-1
Amelie Mauresmo 6-1
Monica Seles 6-1
Kim Cjisters 12-1
Justine Henin 16-1
Hantuchova 20-1
25 to 1 Bar

Hurley
Sep 12th, 2002, 09:01 AM
Henin should be about 1000-1.

Let's be completely speculative and gossipy. ;) Perhaps Venus' poor form is because of a positive drug test? Honestly, if you were a superstar and were going to be banned from the sport, would you be able to win two Grand Slams in a row right after you had been told such news?

If I had to pick a player, I'd bet on Venus....but you know what? I bet it's no one.

Dawn Marie
Sep 12th, 2002, 09:37 AM
If I were to bet on a player it wouldn't be Venus because she already won 2 slams in 2001. It would be somebody who was doing the best they could to beat those who they thought stood in their way to win a slam. Somebody who really wanted to perform well at the French Open. Someone who seemed all of the sudden faster and fitter. High energy.

I think this is crap, but it is a bit o' honey fun to specualate and guestimate. It is a Mystery, and I love Mysteries.

Williams Rulez
Sep 12th, 2002, 09:56 AM
lol... Venus? Serena?

No way. They look the same 4 years ago, no way. And what the heck would Venus or Serena need to improve their performance? They were doing great last year... I mean if it were a top 10 player, then there are 10 options, not just 2.

Rayny
Sep 12th, 2002, 10:55 AM
Why haven't we heard ANYTHING about it in any US or European sports or media outlet? If V or S were caught using drugs it would be a huge story. My guess is it isn't true. Serena has had the same muscular physique from the time she first started on tour-- check out photos-- Serena has that body type that is naturally muscular. If Venus is using drugs then it sure hasn't helped her in the weight department. She's as skinny as ever. Also, drugs may help a person get strong but they won't help them with court sense and mental strength on the court --that is where V &S have improved lately and that is why they are winning.

KaseyL
Sep 12th, 2002, 12:35 PM
I've read in an article, publicized in Belgian leading weekly sportmagazine "Sportmagazine" on Sep 4, 2002, the following:

- about the substance that was found: one drug was BUPROPION

According to this article it is a stimulant that belongs to the group of products that is forbidden in all circumstances (article quotes Klaus Müller, the Head of the lab in Kreisha, that is recognized by the International Olympic Comitee (IOC).

It's a very dangerous substance. Early June the medical journal Arznei-Telegramm warned for this drug. It's a drug that sometimes is prescribed to get rid of smoking habits. The medical journal says that 250 deads can be linked to the use of this substance.

The article is very interesting, don't have time to do full translation, but another highlight is the following:

- It claims that this is happened at the ITF:
In London, Debbie Evans (ITF director) had called the French anti dope organisation "Conseil de Prévention et de Lutte contre le Dopage". She told them that it was "too early" and "inappropriate" that the agency had thrown the two positive dope cases during Roland Garros into the public attention early June. That was the opinion of Debbie Jevans, director of ITF. She said it was "not done" and she explained the person from the French organisation how she looked upon the matter. "There are cases of players who have to take medicine because of health reasons." That's why the ITF doesn't want another analysis (of B-samples) and doesn't want to publicize the identities of the two players involved. There are no positive dope cases in our mind", said an angry Jevans before brutally ending the call.

The article in full is originally written by Maik Grossekathöfer and Michael Wulzinger.

Jay
Sep 12th, 2002, 12:51 PM
This is the problem, the ITF and the WTA and also the ATP have always had a relaxed attitude to dope testing in comparison to other sports like IOC etc. and I don't think many can argue with that. Sure they blow their horn and say that they've conducted this many tests on players over the years and bugger all has been shown but the fact is their anti-drug program is no where near as strict as the others.

For example the IOC don't mess about with asking their atheltes if it's convenient to take a test at their home, they just show up whenever they like even if it's 2 am in the morning and the athelte has to comply and piss in a bottle whether they like it or not (and I'm sure they don't)

However the CPLD is a body that was set up following the dope scandal of the Tour de France in 1998 and they have power over all major sporting events in France and that is what the WTA and the ITF are unhappy about that they can't keep everything 'in house'.

I'm not suprised that no major star has been caught for so long but there's no doubt that doping has gone on.

People out there know, people from the CPLD know the identities but they're not saying publically but you can bet your life that people from that organisation have been talking to their friends and collegues, wives, mitresses etc. and more than likely to other people that they know in the anti-doping business.

Only recently we had that guy from ASDA coming out of no where making similar comments and the WTA reacted violently towards his comments.

There's no doubt about it, something is up, I know it's still only rumours but there's a lot of them flying around from different sources and as you all well know rumours quite often turn into fact (for example Jelena and Enrique, Anna and the other Enrique)

Mags
Sep 12th, 2002, 12:55 PM
From the few previous positive drug tests cases I can think of I believe the individuals concerned were ordered to return their winnings from the time the test was taken to the current date and their ranking points were withdrawn( can someone confirm/deny this for me?). If this is the case(and the player knew they were guilty of something) then surely the player would play the minimum number of tournaments possible and not bother to go too far - after all what would be the point of playing your heart out if you knew there was a good chance that the money and points would be taken away from you?.

If players have been found to have taken something the relevant bodies should sort it out quickly and stop the speculation.

jadore
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:13 PM
[Admin edit]

KaseyL
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:15 PM
Right Jay!

The article continues:

'In 2001 ATP did 1234 tests during tourneys and 50 during training periods. Rune Andersen, director at the World Anti dope Agency (Wada), calls this a totally wrong balance. ATP would do 150 tests during training in 2002, but thats' still a ridiculously low amount.

Wada-standard requires 60 % of dope tests are unexpected.

Re the women the article claims that no one was tested in 2001 during training (= outside tournaments, for good understandings). The article states that the chance to get caught for anabol steroïds -for your muscle building - , is as big as getting knocked off by lightning while playing a game...

Most of the forbidden substances are taken orally. You can't trace them back in urine after a few days.
Tests during a tournament therefore are a joke.

ITF is one of the last international organisations who haven't signed an agreement with wada yet.

On the contrary, they do all to cross WADA.
An example is the refusal of ITF to reveal the whereabouts of players to Wada. "If we reveal that info, players can get troubled by fans", motivates Debbie Jevans this attitude.'

That's all according to this Belgian article.

jadore
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:17 PM
this board is just full of williams lovers and whenever ne1 remotely noks them, they r labelled a racist and jealous of the williams' success when a large majority of them mite just dislike their attitudes. aaaaargghhhhh!!!!!!

KaseyL
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:18 PM
For the ones understanding Dutch (I can't do the full translation now):

this is the article as it was publicized in Belgium last week:

Sportmagazine, Sept 4, 2002
Struisvogels

Doping in het tennis ? De internationale tennisfederatie en de spelersorganisaties kijken de andere kant op. Maar de geruchten en verdachtmakingen zwellen aan.
De vrouw belde vanuit Londen en ze was boos. Ze had zich laten doorverbinden met de directie van de Franse antidopinginstantie Conseil de Prévention et de Lutte contre le Dopage. Ze noemde het "voorbarig" en "misplaatst" dat het agentschap begin juni twee dopinggevallen tijdens Roland Garros in de openbaarheid had gegooid. Dat vond Debbie Jevans, directrice van de Internationale Tennisfederatie (ITF), not done en ze legde haar gesprekspartner uit hoe ze de kwestie zag. "Er zijn gevallen waarbij spelers om redenen van gezondheid medicijnen moeten nemen." Daarom zou de ITF afzien van het onderzoek van B-stalen en ook de namen van de twee spelers niet prijsgeven. "Voor ons zijn er geen positieve dopinggevallen", brieste Jevans en smeet de telefoon dicht.
Maar zo gemakkelijk kon ze de zaak niet toedekken. Ondertussen lekte uit dat er zich in één van de dubieuze urinestalen het pepmiddel Bupropion bevond. Een stimulerend product dat volgens Klaus Müller, de baas van het door het Internationaal Olympisch Comité (IOC) geaccrediteerde dopinglaboratorium in Kreischa, behoort "tot die groep van middelen die in alle omstandigheden verboden zijn".
Vooreerst omdat het een hoogst gevaarlijk goedje betreft. Begin juni nog waarschuwde het medisch magazine Arznei-Telegramm voor de inname van Bupropion, een preparaat dat wel eens wordt voorgeschreven om van het roken af te geraken. Het vakblad had wereldwijd 250 sterfgevallen geregistreerd, die met Bupropion in verband kunnen worden gebracht.
De internationale tennisscène kreeg de druk niet meer van de ketel : de US Open begon vorig week in een geladen sfeer, de spanning was te snijden. Want hoe meer functionarissen van de wereldtennisfederatie en de spelersorganisaties ATP (voor mannen) en WTA (voor vrouwen) geheime diplomatie beoefenen om het dopingthema onder de mat te schuiven, hoe meer schade het imago van het tennis oploopt. Dat het tennis zich gaarne pleegt af te schilderen als zuiver op de graat, krijgt stilaan de allure van een giller.
In spelerskringen gonst het al geruime tijd van de geruchten. Omdat de verantwoordelijken niets ondernemen om de kwaal aan te pakken, laat staan uit te roeien, voelen almaar meer tennisprofs zich benadeeld in de strijd om de miljoenengages. Steeds luider klinken het gemor én de verdachtmakingen. In de Spaanse krant El País bekreunde Sergi Bruguera - tweevoudig Roland Garroswinnaar - zich eind juli openlijk over de mistspuiterij van de ATP. "Het staat vast dat er in het tennis doping wordt genomen", kreet de Spanjaard. Ook de Franse speler Nicolas Escudé maakte van zijn hart niet langer een moordkuil. "Wie gelooft dat tennis zuiver is, leeft in een droomwereld."
De Zwitser Roger Federer goot nog olie op het vuur. "Hoewel ik tot de toptien behoor, werd ik tot nu toe welgeteld twee keer gecontroleerd. Dat versta ik niet. In andere sportdisciplines wordt aan de lopende band getest." Een strengere dopingpolitiek is dringend geboden, zei Federer nog. De man uit Basel wees vooral de gravelspecialisten met de vinger : daar wordt volgens hem het meest van verboden spul gesnoept. Na zijn toernooizege in Hamburg had Federer zich tien dagen moe gevoeld. "Ik weet werkelijk niet hoe andere spelers zo snel kunnen recupereren, maar normaal is dat niet."
Argwaan duikt ook in het vrouwencircuit op. De krachtpatserij van Jennifer Capriati en de zussen Serena en Venus Williams roept vragen op. John Mendoza, hoofd van het Australische antidopingagentschap, windt er geen doekjes rond. "Tennis verliest de controle. Moet je die lichamen bekijken ! Zulke figuren bekom je niet op basis van training alleen."
In geen enkele topsport wordt zo laks naar doping gezocht als in tennis. Voor het hele jaar 2001 signaleerde de ATP 1234 dopingcontroles tijdens de mannentoernooien en slechts 50 controles tijdens de training. Rune Andersen, directeur bij het Wereld Antidoping Agentschap (Wada), vindt dat een "volkomen verkeerde verhouding". ATP kondigde voor 2002 weliswaar 150 controles op training aan, maar ook dat aantal blijft belachelijk weinig. De Wada-standaard legt op dat 60 procent van de dopingcontroles onverwacht gebeuren. Om zondaars efficiënt af te schrikken, zou de ATP op jaarbasis minstens 7500 onaangekondigde controles moeten organiseren.
Bij de vrouwen is het qua dopingbestrijding nog erger gesteld. In 2001 was er geen enkele controle op training. De kans dat een speelster op het gebruik van anabole steroïden - behulpzaam bij de opbouw van spieren - wordt betrapt, is ongeveer even groot als het risico dat iemand bij een partijtje volleybal door de bliksem wordt getroffen. De meeste verboden substanties worden oraal ingenomen. Na een paar dagen valt er in de urine geen spoor meer van te vinden. Controles tijdens de competitie worden daardoor tot een farce herleid.
Beterschap is voorlopig niet in zicht. Als één van de laatste internationale federaties heeft de ITF nog altijd geen overeenkomst met Wada ondertekend. Meer nog, de ITF doet er alles aan om Wada tegen te werken. Een voorbeeld is de weigering van de ITF om Wada mee te delen welke speler zich wanneer waar bevindt. "Als we die informatie prijs geven, kunnen de spelers door fans belaagd worden", motiveert Debbie Jevans dit manoeuvre. Zo blijven tennisprofs gevrijwaard van de dreiging dat er op een goede dag een dopingcontroleur voor hun deur staat en om een urinetest verzoekt.
De tennisvrouwen vinden dat maar best zo. Ze lieten weten dat ze een dergelijk onverwacht bezoek als ongewenst en belastend beschouwen. En als een inbreuk in hun privé-leven : "Iemand die ik niet verwacht, laat ik niet in mijn huis binnen", klonk het strijdbaar bij Venus Williams. Waaraan Jennifer Capriati toevoegde : "Ik meen dat niemand het recht heeft om in mijn lichaam te kijken."
Het tennis sluit dus de rangen. Het leidt bijwijlen tot hallucinante situaties. Drie jaar geleden kreeg een ambtenaar van het Zwitserse olympisch comité de deur tegen zijn neus, toen hij op het toernooi van Gstaad twee spelers wilde controleren. Kon niet, beweerde de ATP-functionaris van dienst. Hij diste daarvoor een originele verklaring op : als slechts 2 van de 32 deelnemende spelers worden getest, wordt het gelijkheidsprincipe geschonden.
Is de dopingcontrole in het tennis slappe kost, toch vallen er geregeld spelers door de mand (zie kader). In 1995 werden acht profs - onder wie oud-nummer één Mats Wilander - op doping betrapt. Het wekt het vermoeden dat er kolossaal wordt geslikt en gespoten. In een interview met ABC bevestigde actrice Tatum O'Neal die indruk. Over haar ex-man John McEnroe zei ze dat hij tijdens zijn carrière gretig aan de marihuana, de cocaïne en de steroïden zat. Big Mac deed de aantijging af als "lachwekkend".
In december 1993 sprak gewezen Wimbledonkampioen Boris Becker al over de massale intrede van "coke, speed en marihuana" in het tenniscircuit. "De vraag is," aldus Becker, "of de ATP het zich wel kan veroorloven om een dopingcontrole positief te laten uitvallen."
Het simpelweg openbaar maken van positieve dopingcontroles bleek lange tijd taboe. Ook daar hield de ATP er een rare redenering op na. "Hoewel tennissers publieke figuren zijn, geeft de ATP liever geen dopingproblemen aan de buitenwereld prijs. Tennis is een individuele sport. Elke speler die doping neemt, brengt alleen maar zijn eigen gezondheid en carrière in gevaar."
Tot nader order behandelt de ATP de zondaars met opvallende mildheid. In de urine van de Argentijn Juan Ignacio Chela werd in april 2001 het anabolicum methyltestosteron aangetroffen. Chela hoefde zich slechts drie maanden aan de kant te parkeren, inmiddels bestormt hij weer ongegeneerd de wereldranglijst. Guillermo Coria, nog een Argentijn, vertoonde in december 2001 sporen van het gebruik van nandrolon. De ATP legde hem een schorsing van zeven maanden op, maar na drie maanden rende Coria weer lustig en rustig over de tenniscourt. In andere sportdisciplines staat op dopinggebruik een minimumstraf van twee jaar. Zoniet in tennis. Maar, argumenteerde de ATP, "Chela en Coria hadden die anabole steroïden niet opzettelijk genomen".
door Maik Grossekathöfer en Michael Wulzinger


Dopinggevallen
2001 Guillermo Coria (Arg), nandrolon
2000 Juan Igancio Cela (Arg), methyltestosteron
1999 Larissa Neiland (Let), cafeïne
1998 Petr Korada (Tsj), nandrolon
1997 Samantha Reeves (VS), nandrolon
1996 Ignacio Truyol (Spa), nandrolon
1995 Mats Wilander (Zwe), cocaïne
1995 Karel Novacek (Tsj), cocaïne

BK4ever
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:30 PM
We just need to chill out and wait for the OFFICIAL announcement. We have to remember that we are dealing with two stupid organizations. Take that Spanish chick who got caught in March using cocaine, but wasnt suspended until last month. Its ridiculous. Its unfair to her and all the other players that they waited this long to make a decision.

Greenout
Sep 12th, 2002, 01:45 PM
Your right. BK4ever. It's a joke. The Cocaine chick wasn't
even anybody in the top 100, and they tried to bury the
story.

Yes Jay, Yes. The reason it looks like cyclists or track and
Field people are always busted for "doping" is because their
respective federations/event organizers etc...do alot of tests.
If the WTA/ASP did tests more often, then it would discourage
players from cheating. Even that won't prevent cheating.
We just have to admit that it's part of sports culture nowadays
with so much money and fame involved. There's a hella lot
on line for people.

The way it is right now, it's an open for
practically every type of creative "doping" scams that you can
pay for.

CellJr300
Sep 12th, 2002, 08:46 PM
I don't knwo who it is, and I won't even cast an opinion until the truth comes out, but to the people who were saying it can't be Venus or Serena because there bodies look the same today as they did 4 years ago, their bodies are not a barometer for steroids. Most people assume that steroids makes you look big and bulked up, or it will change your overrall appearance. This is not always true, look at Lyle Alzado, who looked the same his entire career, and then admitted that near the last years of his career he started taking steroids, and they didn't change his bodyshape at all, he looked the same as when he had koined the league.

I had to take steroid, by perscription, for a while after I tore my knee to shreds. I was on steroids for almost 6 months, and my body shape did not change, and there were no noticable differences to before I started taking the steroids.

I am not bashing anyone, I am just bringing up the point that the way a person's body looks doesn't always tell the whole story.

bluepastures
Sep 12th, 2002, 09:21 PM
Which Spanish girl was suspended for drugs a few months ago?

CellJr300
Sep 12th, 2002, 10:23 PM
Lourdes Dominguez-Lino was suspended for Cocaine.

gentenaire
Sep 12th, 2002, 10:35 PM
Thanks for posting that article, Kasey, very interesting!

Monique
Sep 13th, 2002, 04:24 AM
"Als we die informatie prijs geven, kunnen de spelers door fans belaagd worden", motiveert Debbie Jevans dit manoeuvre.

things will hardly change, if ever, with this attitude. The ITF, WTA and ATP have to come clean and more vocal regarding their policies on doping....but there is this general fear that if a high profile player gets caught, it will mean the demise of tennis as a serious sport..in the meantime, I think this hush-up and hiding policy has already hurt the image of the Tour among its core fans...

KaseyL
Sep 13th, 2002, 12:32 PM
so true, Monique.

KaseyL
Sep 13th, 2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Tine
Thanks for posting that article, Kasey, very interesting!

You're welcome!


btw as the Flemish are testing for dope (following the international rules), it was recently reported in Flemish weekly Knack magazine (which is a serious one; is focused on politics, economics) that tennis in Flanders scored 7% positive for dope (=7 pos. out of 100 tests). These tests were all done by the lab of dr Delbeke (University of Ghent), that works for the Flemish government and tests all the samples taken by the Flemish anti-dope team and the cycling federation UCI.

To put these results in some perspective, the results from tennis were worse than these from cycling (score of 4%).

So one can have an idea what it might give in the tour (ATP and WTA) if the same tests and severe test methods would be applied... as I don't see why Flemish players would be so different from any other player when it comes to use of dope.

By not adopting dope testing in a serious manner, tennis is going to harm itself, instead of protecting itself in the long run.

And even more, the few players who dared to speak up, got all critics over them (think of Escudé) or were told to 'shut up' (see the Rochus bros).

It's their right to have a fair competition (getting a fair chance of winning and earning a living), and it's the fans' and sponsors' right (these people putting the money in, after all) to get the fair competition we all want to see and cheer for.

Some serious food for thought.

Zamboni
Sep 13th, 2002, 03:37 PM
Very interesting article indeed, and interesting results from the Flemish tests!

I think they will not say the names until they're willing to change their policy. I think it's clear there's a high-profile player involved, and once they will anounce who that is, they can't step back anymore. They have to do more and better tests then.

gentenaire
Sep 13th, 2002, 03:55 PM
It's rediculous to only test at tournaments. The players know exactly when they'll be tested, it's not hard to prepare for them. They should be tested during training, at times when they least expect them and they should be tested often! And when they find positive results, they should let the public know!

Experimentee
Sep 13th, 2002, 04:01 PM
Whats the point of using drugs if its only for practice and not for tournaments?

Zamboni
Sep 13th, 2002, 04:05 PM
They use the drugs to do better in tournaments of course, but if they use them during practise, they can't be caught at the controls during tournaments.

irma
Sep 13th, 2002, 04:06 PM
with certain dope you can practise harder and longer!

gentenaire
Sep 13th, 2002, 04:20 PM
Muscler builders can easily be taken during practice. The effect of these kinds of drugs aren't noticable until later.

martinawolfi2001
Sep 14th, 2002, 04:23 PM
One thing is sure.
Martina Hingis isn´t the player who doped at Roland Garros.

Sunspot
Sep 14th, 2002, 07:55 PM
Same thing with LD, as Martina. Out of the top players in the RG QF, Monica seems like the most least likely person in sports to be using. I don't think it's likely to be Venus either. The people saying the williams look the same 4 years ago were right in Venus's case, yet VERY wrong in Serena's. During rain delays, they showed Serena's final with Martina & she looks Noticeably Bigger now, all over. Can't think of any way to defend Serena or Jennifer ATM.

I just wish the ITF/WTA will say something soon, if they can't fit the whole thing under the carpet. Lucky for them, it's just about Carpet season :p


If it is Serena, then Venus should be made the three time GS winner & going for a Venus Slam. Put her name on the trophies instead of Serena. Just changing the 1st name makes it easy lol


Also, whoever is using, the drug can kill people. So it's very stupid to use, besides the risk of being found out.

Hulet
Sep 15th, 2002, 02:24 PM
I emailed the CPLD (the org that conducted the test at RG) last week and here is their reply (I have inserted ***** for my name and email address ;)):

__________________________________________________ __
Return-Path: <info@cpld.fr>
Received: via tmail-4.1(11) for *****; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:27:58 -0400 (EDT)
Sun, 15 Sep 2002 05:27:52 -0400
Received: from cpld3 (unknown [194.206.12.227])
by s1.relay.oleane.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C657E1FAD6
for <*****@*****.ca>; Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:27:34 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <005e01c25c9a$8456df80$e30ccec2@rain.fr>
From: "infocpld" <info@cpld.fr>
To: "******" <*****@******.ca>
Subject: Re: Tennis Doping results
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 11:30:22 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01C25CAB.4794EAE0"
Return-Path: <info@cpld.fr>
Status:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C25CAB.4794EAE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les procédures à l'égard des deux sportifs chez lesquels des substances dopantes interdites ou soumises à restriction sont en cours. Le sportif comme tout citoyen a droit au respect des droits de la défense ce qui implique le respect d'un certain délai pour permettre au sportif de se défendre.
----- Original Message -----
From: ********
To: info@cpld.fr
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:48 AM
Subject: Tennis Doping results


Why aren't the results from the French open tennis tournament made public yet? It has been 12 weeks since the conclusion of this tournament. So, why is it taking so long to announce the players caught doping?

__________________________________________________ __


ofcourse, since I don't read french, I went to google to get it translated and this is how it came out:
__________________________________________________ _
Procedures with regard to the two sportsmen in whom doping substances prohibited or subjected to restriction are in progress. The sportsman as any citizen is entitled to the respect of the rights of defense what implies the respect of a certain time to make it possible to the sportsman to defend oneself.
__________________________________________________ __

So, the response is not saying anything except that investigation is still ongoing.

BTW, didn't the original article from "ole" claim that results should be coming out this past week ending today? May be if whom ever wrote that article or was qouted on the article got that wrong, one could doubt if the author of the article or the insider qouted on the article really know the "color" of the players caught doping.

Anyways, I can't wait until the result is announced - until then I will keep this page bookmarked. ;)

Jay
Sep 15th, 2002, 02:28 PM
yep according to Javier Frana (and he did say this on TV that is 100%) the result of the b test should be announced sometime this week.

Jay
Sep 15th, 2002, 02:33 PM
however no one could find any evidence that Salatino said those remarks on the TV about colour etc so my guess is that Ole were printing shite.

Zamboni
Sep 15th, 2002, 04:40 PM
this week?

would be a miracle :rolleyes:

mn73
Sep 15th, 2002, 06:17 PM
If the announcement is to be made this week then it surely must count Serena Williams out. No player would be foolish enough to be playing a tournament when the announcement was made. Surely they would be forced to withdraw in the middle of the event if they got a ban, and even if they didn't get a ban the media circus would be awful. I am sure the player concerned has been briefed about when the announcement is to be made. Most of the top ten are in action this week or next week - this is so intruiging. Perhaps it is indeed a former Top 5 player perhaps? It all seems so weird to me. If a player were facing public humiliation, a long ban and loss of prize money they would not be playing or making commitments for the rest of the year and all the Top 10 are!!!

Jay
Sep 15th, 2002, 07:04 PM
hehe

I doubt a top player would get a ban even with a positive dope test.

I'm sure some high profile defense lawyer will be employed to defend the star and there will be some minor detail that they will pick up on like the delivery driver who carried the sample from RG to the lab had a previous conviction for smoking a joint and hence the sample that he delivered may have been contaminated or some such shit like that.

I got visions of the player getting off on some bollocks like this and the lawyer standing outsite a building gushing to the press about how pleased he his that his client has been proved innocent blah blah blah and how the CPLD have infringed the human rights of his client blah blah blah

lala
Sep 15th, 2002, 08:20 PM
I Believe I've read somewhere if a player does get banned as a result of this latest testing positive, it will only apply to tornys played in France....

Zamboni
Sep 15th, 2002, 08:24 PM
could be well true, lala.

I mean, the ITF/ATP/WTA aren't part of the WADA, so it could be that the ban is for French tournaments only. But then, what about Lourdes then?

starr
Sep 15th, 2002, 08:25 PM
I think you are right about that.

This wasn't a WTA test.

And Jay... too funny about the lawyers, etc.


If a sport wants to put an end to doping rumors, it should institute unannounced out of competition testing. That is flat out the only way to catch dopers. International swimming has gone a long way toward cleaning up its act in that way. Track and field need to do more. The U.S. should have every athlete sign waivers for testing before the athlete is allowed to compete. That's the only way to get rid of the endless rounds of litigation that have given the U.S. the worldwide reputation for doping in track and field.

starr
Sep 15th, 2002, 09:02 PM
From the National Institute on Drug Abuse

2.7 percent of 8th- and 10th-graders and 2.9 percent of 12th-graders had taken anabolic steroids at least once in their lives. For 10th-graders, that is a significant increase from 1998, when 2.0 percent of 10th-graders said they had taken anabolic steroids at least once. For all three grades, the 1999 levels represent a significant increase from 1991, the first year that data on steroid abuse were collected from the younger students. In that year, 1.9 percent of 8th-graders, 1.8 percent of 10th-graders, and 2.1 percent of 12th-graders reported that they had taken anabolic steroids at least once.

Few data exist on the extent of steroid abuse by adults. It has been estimated that hundreds of thousands of people aged 18 and older abuse anabolic steroids at least once a year.

Among both adolescents and adults, steroid abuse is higher among males than females. However, steroid abuse is growing most rapidly among young women.

Hulet
Nov 16th, 2002, 05:53 PM
*bump*

Time to resurrect this thread.