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rhz
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:09 AM
i'm just wondering, why only blacks feel they are being discriminated against, while i think some other races like asian or latino sometimes being treated differently aswell! and in my opinion, even at times players are being discriminated just because they are not from the US or they can't speak English fluently, i don't know if i am correct, but this is just my opinion!

lizchris
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:16 AM
What the hell are you talking about? You can count the number of blacks in tennis on one hand. There are many more Latino and Asians in tennis. In addition, whites don't see Latinos or Asians are threats; they do see blacks as such and always will for some stupid reason.

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:22 AM
well i think Asians get discriminated against all the time but something about their culture (this is a guess based on only a few conversations with friends) prevents them from being vocal about it. However, Micheal Chang was always more popular in China than the USA, I wonder why that is? They are more willing to live with it. That's their choice. However, its also AA's choice to not to put up with it for one second just because some don't want to hear it.

Deira
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:26 AM
Rhz, Asians and Latinos do not have the histroy that blacks have had in this country. It is a bitter pill to swallow, that why we sometimes have to spew it out.

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:29 AM
Err...What about the Japanese AMericans who
were thrown in camps during W W II? They had
everything taken away from them. That's
an ugly part of American history.

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:32 AM
ALot of Japanese Americans had to chose to change
the spelling of their last names from Ota to Ohta just
so people wouldn't hate them.. This was suppose to
make the Japanese sounding name less Japanese.

What about the discimination that Jewish people
went thru?

Rising Sun
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:44 AM
Greenout, Ota and Ohta are two different names.

In kanji:

Ota: Dc
Ohta/Outa: c

Cam'ron Giles
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Greenout
Err...What about the Japanese AMericans who
were thrown in camps during W W II? They had
everything taken away from them. That's
an ugly part of American history.

Apples and Oranges my friend. Japanese Americans were viewed as a threat to national security after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. The hatred for blacks on the tennis court comes from good old fashion AMERICAN RACISM. I have a lot more respect for European tennis fans because they clearly put the tennis first and foremost.

Deira
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:47 AM
There is NO COMPARISON between what Japanese Americans and Jewish Americans went thorough as opposed to what African-Americans went through in America. Please don't get me started!

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2002, 05:49 AM
Danker,

One of my former office worker friends told
me his family changed the spelling of his last
name from Ota to Ohta. That's were I got
the story from. He said alot of people added
"h"s to make it not look so Japanese.
(he's from California)

Rising Sun
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:00 AM
OK Greenout. :)

I'm sure their name must've been the same, but just altered the romanisation.

I've seen variations of other surnames like: Goto/Gotoh/Gotou, etc.

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:12 AM
It's not just apples and oranges.

I'm an American expat in Singapore. I visted
Indonesia, Japan, Thailand, Nepal . Been to Costa RIca,
Mexico and Ecuador. There are alot of
people being exploited, and abused in Asia and South
America, Central America. I don't see how you can
single out Black American history as different.

There's a sad fact here in Singapore, and that's
Burmese girls being used in brothels. Some of these
girls were tricked, some kidnapped, some even sold
by their own relatives. It's human tragedy. I know
that Blacks have been exploited in the USA; but it's
unfortunately something not unique. It's everywhere.
You can't say one act of human tragedy is worth more
sympathy than the other. It's all ugly. It's just something
in human nature. A dark negative part of the human
condition. Look at Nepal...there are small tribes
exploiting other smaller tribes.

Terri77
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by Greenout
Err...What about the Japanese AMericans who
were thrown in camps during W W II? They had
everything taken away from them. That's
an ugly part of American history.

It was extremely ugly. Our government paid restitutions for survivors of those camps.

rhz
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:21 AM
this is getting out of discussion, please keep it tennis related! thanks

Greenout
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:32 AM
Ok- RHZ!!

Cybelle Darkholme
Sep 7th, 2002, 06:56 AM
Funny how german americans and Italian americans were never viewed as a threat to national security.

Amanda
Sep 7th, 2002, 07:05 AM
.....neither was Timothy McVay. Just one of those good ol' all American boys that will do no wrong!!!

Tennis Fool
Sep 7th, 2002, 07:15 AM
Funny how german americans and Italian americans were never viewed as a threat to national security.
=============================================
Not true, actually. Little known fact: Italian and German Americans were interned at Ellis Island during WWII

Dawn Marie
Sep 7th, 2002, 07:19 AM
VEEYONCE' cut the crap.. You are a FAKETY FAKE POSTER.

lmao@ you!!

Now take that username out ad come back with a bit more credibility!!! Why do you always have to give yourself away?

LMAO.

GO VENUS, from real fan.:)

treufreund
Sep 7th, 2002, 07:49 AM
Actually German Americans changed their names, refused to speak German in public or to teach it to their kids and were victims of hate crimes on a MASSIVE SCALE. Many cities with a large German population were infiltrated by the FBI and many cities changed the names of streets and many monuments wiping out their heritage. Also most German-Americans arrived long after slavery was abolished. Many Eastern European-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans and Jewish Americans arrived in the twentieth century after abolition and yet you would think by listening to some liberals that virtually every white person in America is the descendant of slaveowners, when in reality MOST are not.

Monica_Rules
Sep 7th, 2002, 11:46 AM
God everything just boils down to racism in some people eyes god grow up!

Gallofa
Sep 7th, 2002, 12:36 PM
I think we tend to use the term too broadly, rhz. Racism is discrimination or prejudice based on race. Now, what is race? Strictly speaking two people of different "color" can be of the same "race". Look up the word race in the dictionary if you don't believe it.

I find that many people use the word racism as an attacking word. "You are a racist!", "this is racism!" they scream, and they don't even know what they are saying. It is the misuse of words that ends up emptying them of any significance or meaning.

I like the word discrimination, it still means something, as it hasn't been so over used. Is there discrimination towards players simply because they can't speak English? Of course. In this board many times, people from English speaking countries, and even those who are not, but have a good handle of English, humiliate players and posters saying "learn to speak properly" - well, excuse me. They do speak properly in their own languages, why don't YOU bother to learn their languages? That's something the French know about ;) they refuse to believe French is not as good as English.

Is there discrimination on the WTA Tour based on other things, such as nationality, skin color or sexual preferences? Of course. Discrimination comes down to disliking those that are different to you.

Kart
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Deira
There is NO COMPARISON between what Japanese Americans and Jewish Americans went thorough as opposed to what African-Americans went through in America. Please don't get me started!

I'm sure that you're right, but that doesn't make other's mistreatment any less valid.


In answer to this thread ... I'm sure that the other races in tennis probably do feel discriminated against. Why we hear less about it is probably because they have less representatives at the top of the game. No one wants to listen to what the world ranked no.500 has to say when they can listen to what the world's no.1 and no.2 have to say. People have to be given an opportunity to speak out before they can actually do so.

Ryan
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:48 PM
Of course there is no way to compare racism with Blacks, and racism with japanese. But that doesn't mean there isn't ANY racism towards other races. In Canada, Japanese, Italians, any race associating with Hitler were put in Camps for the duration of the war, and sometimes were shipped away or killed. That wasn't neccesarily racism, but they assumed that if one Italian went with Hitler, every Italian or Japanese person was.


rhz IS right, racism has/will happen to EVERY race, blacks, whites, jews(not really a "race" though are they?) chinese, buddhist, etc etc. There are varying degrees though of the racism each cultuer/race has recieved.

Pureracket
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:53 PM
To the starter of this thread:
I have heard other races talk about discrimination in the United States. It's just that most of the Blacks in the country have a history with the USA that started with the slave trade. Other races came to the USA by choice. That fact alone makes a big difference.

irma
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:55 PM
discrimination happens not only with race but with all sort of people who somehow don't fit in.
I mean fat people also have to pay for two seats in a plane!

Ryan
Sep 7th, 2002, 08:59 PM
No one on this board I know(I'm sure there are some here though) bashes black players joy, so stay on topic with the thread.

Deira
Sep 7th, 2002, 09:19 PM
That's actually a very American perspective.
I am an American and that is MY perspective.

I'm sure that you're right, but that doesn't make other's mistreatment any less valid.
No, it doesn't nor did I say it did, but there is still NO COMPARISION to the horrors experienced by black African-Americans in America except those experienced by the native population - the so-called "native" American.

rhz
Sep 7th, 2002, 09:35 PM
I thought we are talking about Racism in tennis!!! come on guys! stay in the discussion

TSequoia01
Sep 7th, 2002, 11:42 PM
Racism in tennis, well lets see. Racism is the act of one race denying opportunity, freedom, and free choice to another based soley on their race. Is this happening in tennis? Probably not at the pro level. At local tennis clubs and establishments, I would say a resounding yes. Does this effect the pro level you betcha. :cool:

Kiwi_Boy
Sep 8th, 2002, 12:58 AM
THANK YOU monica_rules!!!!!.not every thing is about race,and in this day and age racism only exists as a cheap playing card to divert attention away from the truth(i.e.fact:there arnt that many black tennis players and probably fans,its no one elses problem to make a particular race ,creed what ever like/participate in somthing and when they do participate there should be no special rules-its up to the individuals them selves to participate and win-not the race card!

tennischick
Sep 8th, 2002, 01:07 AM
UMPIRE CHARGES USTA WITH RACISM

Cecil Hollins, an attorney who has been a USTA certified tennis umpire since 1991, has filed a complaint with the United State Equal Employment Opportunity Commission citing that the United States Tennis Association "is engaged in racially motivated discriminatory practices toward African-Americans, myself included."

Hollins, who used to hold a gold badge of certification from the ITF (International Tennis Federation) was bumped down to silver status in 1999, but says he was told it had nothing to do with his performance on the job.

The complaint also points out that no qualified African-American has umpired the men's or women's final at the U.S. Open. Hollins says he is the only American man who has held ITF gold badge distinction that has not umpired either a men's or women's final at the Open.

Hollins claims his interest in forming an United States Tennis Umpires Association similar to the one that exists in Britain has not been well received by officialdom. The bottom line that Hollins hopes to achieve through his EEOC complaint is "fairness and a creation of the U.S. Tennis Umpires Association."

For their part, the USTA has declined to comment on the EEOC complaint that Hollins has filed.

from the tr.net newsletter

Aylafr
Sep 8th, 2002, 02:36 AM
I think clocker made a very good point. Because of the huge history between Blacks and the US (Blacks have been brought by force to the US inthe first place and enslaved), Blacks are more likely to claim something is done out of racism. Which can be true. Whicb is often. But not always. But who can see ....

However, there is discrimination in tennis towards all groups of people (Blacks, Asians, Latinos ....), but so far, apart of a few black girls we know ;) no other has been able to threat the "hierarchy" in tennis. But any of the girls coming from Asia could certainly fill pages from discriminative acts towards them on many occasions. They just haven't. Anyway, this habit to sue for whatever reason is also, very American.

I used "hierarchy" in purpose. I remember soccer World Cup this year and some stupid spanish made me see red when he said it was all set, South Koreans coul'nt reach semis and when the World Cup will be played again in Europe, the hierarchy will be able to go back to normal (that is : white European countries). I just felt mad and burnt him up ;) But I'm sure it's thre same in tennis .... it's just, how many players have been able to threaten this "hierarchy" ? Kimiko Date for Asia, not too long though, she retired abruptely (threats ?), Gabriela Sabatini for latinos .... who else ? Now; Venus and Serena are here (and very well here) and they are occupying the first two seats .... yeah, it's tough for poor whites, once more evicted

Now, we're talking about the audience, but also organisors. But when it comes to money, now, organisors can't afford showing racism towards big names ... but maybe you should ask Angelique Widjaja, how tough it was for her to participate to some tournaments, or Yayuk Basuki, or Ai Sugiyama, or Tamarine Tanasugarn, or Su-Wei Hsieh and so on .... (I do not all names)

All are being discriminated, but not all of them open up their mouth.

BTW, to Ryan15, buddhist isn't a race, nor even a religion. It's a philosophy. Nonetheless, they can certainly be discriminated too

Gallofa, right on girl :)

Greenout, so true (post about it is not apples and oranges). Girls from Burma (if not prisonners) are just fleeing a country under the last most terrible dictatorship, people are killed there and enlaved today, put to forced labour, but who cares ? Now people of America are free .... Does somone check what they buy ? Why would anyone care little Burmese hands have made it .. if it's cheaper ? Well, anyhow, that's another debate.

Cassius
Sep 8th, 2002, 03:15 AM
I remember soccer World Cup this year and some stupid spanish made me see red when he said it was all set, South Koreans coul'nt reach semis and when the World Cup will be played again in Europe, the hierarchy will be able to go back to normal (that is : white European countries).
'White European countries'?
What, you mean like the French national team? Whatever:rolleyes:
The Spaniards? Their team was hardly 'white'.
England? Holland? I think you'll find there's plenty of blacks in these national teams.
Aylafr, 'White Europeans countries' my arse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top of football's 'hierarchy' is Brazil. Not white at all. Also, Turkey. No white's in that team.