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View Full Version : The second worst played match of Monica's career


evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:32 AM
Wow did she play bad. I have never seen her miss groundstrokes like that. The only worse match of course was when Hingis beat her 6-0, 6-0. Actually this might be worse because Hingis was playing well then, Venus wasn't doing anything special tonight. It's time they knock down that wind tunnel they call Ashe Stadium.

tennisfun
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:34 AM
I agree. Venus played solid, but not great. Monica definitely helped Venus out a lot.

disposablehero
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:35 AM
Venus wasn't doing anything special? She served the lights out.

Monica actually served pretty good tonight, but her groundies were well off the mark. She played better than against Hingis here in 2000, or Bedanova last year.

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:37 AM
Still Venus gave Monica many easy second serves that she just made errors on. We expect Venus to serve well so again, it was nothing special.

And agreed, she did play better against Bedanova last year.

Tennis Fool
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:38 AM
From the stats, Seles didn't play badly. It was okay.

villa
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:38 AM
You must have been watching a different match to the rest of the world..monica didn't hit that many unforced errors.
Venus was serving at over 70% and her average 1st serve speed was over 110mph and she had many winners and few unforced errors..even serena would have stuggeld with venus today....There was nothing monica could do better today apart from run a couple steps faster than she did...

SM
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:39 AM
IM HAPPY SELES GOT AS FAR AS SHE did...lack of match play

SM
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:40 AM
oih and the win over hingis was SWEEEEEEEEEEET///considering the record hingis has over seles

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:41 AM
Are you kidding Villa??? Do you watch Monica??? She has never hit that many shots in the net. I've seen most of her matches against Venus, she never did that any other time.

She must have come out flat and the wind just took everything.

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:43 AM
I am also happy about the Hingis win;-)

Playa
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:44 AM
she didn't play badly ,that's how Venus won her last 3 tournaments.
those big serves and heavy groundies were too much for Monika to handle.:cool:

villa
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:45 AM
yeah but evadafan did you see how hard those shots were coming at seles? i was shocked at how hard venus was hitting some of her shots...

TeeRexx
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:45 AM
Monica played a much better match today than VENUS did in her match against Rubin.
Monica played well, but VENUS won the important points.
No real reason for any whining or crying.

Dawn Marie
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:51 AM
Venus played a good solid match. She kept Monica moving, and got to Monica's head by breaking early. Venus served extremely well, she had Monica moving all over the court. Seles didn't play badley, but I just not as intense imho as the OZ open at the beginning of the year.

Evafan really Venus has a huge head2head over Seles, and I don't think Seles played that badly. Venus was on Fire with her serve!!!

Rocketta
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:52 AM
From the stats, Monica did not hit that many errors. I think her last game left a bad taste in her fans mouth going by what the guys said on USOpen radio. watching the scoreboard and looking at when errors occurred, Monica played well in the 2nd set until her last serve game and 1/2 but I haven't watched the tape yet. I'm just going by listening on the radio and watching the scoreboard.

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:52 AM
Actually, I think she did some positive things this tournament. She obviously did rush back to play the Open. I thought her groundies were good when they went in (Hingis match and third set of Schwartz), but most of them didn't.

And pace on shots has never bothered Monica. She might not be able to do so much with them, but she doesn't miss them. You're kidding yourself if you think Venus's power was the reason for Monica's mistakes.

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:54 AM
Rocketta, you need to watch it. I've never seen Monica hit that many shots in the net. Even in a three set match.

Also, contrary to what Tracy Austin says, Monica has been killing those short balls. I think she only hit one tonight well.

Jarrett
Sep 5th, 2002, 12:59 AM
Venus played great and Monica played the best she could at the moment. I hope Monica lets the foot heal and come back strong in the European indoor events.

disposablehero
Sep 5th, 2002, 01:07 AM
I keep hearing about the stats. What ARE the stats, since the website took it off current matches as soon as it was done and still hasn't gotten to putting it in the completed matches section?

Playa
Sep 5th, 2002, 01:09 AM
it's not only about Venus power, or Monica's error's the score could have been harshier if Venus didn't make those unnecesserary errors.

If you knew a little bit about tennis, it will be obvious that it was Venus' ability to return Monica's serve and the pace that made the difference.

evadafan
Sep 5th, 2002, 01:13 AM
I agree with your first statement Playa, Venus didn't play well, making unnecessary errors.

Monica however was horrendous. If you knew anything about Monica you would know that she has never hit that many errors on such easy balls. Sure, you can argue pace, but she mishit all the gimme shots too! Monica needs to make sure that foot is healed, then play Zurich, Linz, and LA and train hard in the off season to come back in Australia like she did this year. AND NOT LET HINGIS GET BACK IN THE MATCH AGAIN!

Jericho
Sep 5th, 2002, 01:16 AM
venus was just too good, some people are just dont wanna admit that...

Rocketta
Sep 5th, 2002, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by disposablehero
I keep hearing about the stats. What ARE the stats, since the website took it off current matches as soon as it was done and still hasn't gotten to putting it in the completed matches section?

don't know if you've seen them but here they are

Match Summary
Seles(USA) Williams(USA)

1st Serve % 37 of 61 = 61 % 28 of 42 = 67 %

Aces 1 5

Double Faults 2 1

Unforced Errors 18 14

Winning % on 1st Serve 19 of 37 = 51 % 25 of 28 = 89 %

Winning % on 2nd Serve 12 of 24 = 50 % 9 of 14 = 64 %

Winners (Including Service) 6 23

Break Point Conversions 0 of 1 = 0 % 4 of 10 = 40 %

Net Approaches 3 of 8 = 38 % 17 of 20 = 85 %

Total Points Won 39 64

Fastest Serve 100 MPH 121 MPH

Average 1st Serve Speed 92 MPH 110 MPH

Average 2nd Serve Speed 82 MPH 80 MPH

selesadmirer
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:03 AM
monica had way to many errors.

Larrybid
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:08 AM
Gimme a break. Seles had 18 UFE's.... about 1 a game. That ain't horrible...and she did worse than that earlier in the tourney. Venus served lights out...Monica basically had no chance tonight.

Volcana
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:08 AM
Where Monica's unforced errors were concerned, it wasn't how many, it was what kind.

Monica hit at least half a dozen Venus Williams second serves into the net. Just flat out missed really, really easy shots. If Venus hits a winner at then end of a 12 shot rally, that's life.
But Venus' second serve is the weakest part of her game. Monica GAVE her at least half a dozen points on it, without Venus having to do more than dump the ball in.

To break Venus' serve, you have to beat up her second serve. Her first serves are too often un-returnable.

Look at two stats on Venus.

Winning % on 2nd Serve 9 of 14 = 64 %

The notoriously weak Williams second serve, 64%? With MONICA returning?!?!? No way. But the figures inflated, because Monica dumped a lot of balls into the net without Venus having to do anything after her second serve.

Net Approaches 17 of 20 = 85 %

Venus Williams is NOT a player who goes aggressively to net. She goes there when there's a short ball. 20 Net Approaches means Monica wasn't getting consistent depth on her groundies.

Also, Monica only had 6 winners. She had three times as many unforced errors.

Playa
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:13 AM
18 uer's is not that bad. believe me .
Venus had 14.

Larrybid
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:18 AM
Venus's second serves are notoriously poor...but only when she can't get the first serve in consistently, as against Chanda. When Venus doesn't have a DF early as per tonight, her 2nd balls have been pretty decent. But, you are correct in that opponents have to clobber the 2nd serve to have a chance, and you have to see enough 2nd serves to make a difference. Chanda got a lot of second serves and she smoked most of them.

disposablehero
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:31 AM
They seemed to be exceedingly generous with "forced" errors. By my count, they credited Monica with 23 and Venus 19.

Dawn Marie
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:39 AM
Its not how many errors Seles had that was key, but how many WINNERS Venus had. Venus controlled play and had Monica (who hits two hands off each side) CLEARLY on the defensive.

I would like to see the head2head match results from all their matches. It is obvious that Venus troubles Monica moreso then Serena troubles Monica. Has Seles lost any three setters against Venus or what. I forget.

disposablehero
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:42 AM
Off the top of my head Dawn, the Olympics.

Volcana
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:31 AM
Dawn, i gotta disagree. Monica's mobility is what it is. She hasn't any luusions about it. Venus is going to hit winners on her. What Monica has to do is control the points long enough to get her own shots at winners, and then MAKE those winners.

She had to come in on short balls, and attack second serves. She did all that. And repeatedly dumped easy shots into the net. When she got Venus running, she'd take one, two even three tries for a winner, but usually, Venus returned it all. Her speed along the baseline is just impossible. And eventually Venus would get a short ball, move in, and the rally would end in three or four more shots.

It ends in a Venus winner.
But that winner is the result of too many squandered and/or thwarted opportunities for Seles winners.

RYNJ
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:36 AM
For the record... when Monica lost 6/0 6/0 to Hingis, she was sick. Even though she was sick she played because she did not want to dissapoint the crowd.

mishar
Sep 5th, 2002, 05:40 AM
I just came back from watching the match live.

of course it's always a different perspective live than on tv, and not necessarily a better one.

But I have to say, Venus' serve was just incredible tonight. She served at almost 70% with an AVERAGE first serve speed of 110 mph! I don't think I've ever seen a woman ever do anything like that before. Monica did a great job in just getting a racquet on a lot of those serves. Her second serve was also better than usual, it had a lot more kick than I've seen before from her. Sure, Monica made some bad misses on it. But she also knew given how she's playing she really had to take control of the point. So she had to go for it.

Venus also played pretty impeccably. Her only weak game was her last service game, when she faced a break point. Otherwise she basically didn't make dumb errors, that was how it felt.

I also think Monica's game is not in a great place right now. Her serve has definitely slipped back, her movement is not good, and she is not being aggressive. I think all that can improve, and will.

Her will to fight is still there. I thought it was a pretty great accomplishment to get 5 games off Venus when she's playing like she was today. Davenport managed no more last week, Chanda obviously did much better, though I can't imagine Venus was playing like she was today.

Amanda
Sep 5th, 2002, 07:36 AM
Monica said Venus did everything better than her...that is why Venus won! Get over it! Venus beat Monica. Monica made no excuses. She acknowledged that Venus was simply the better player during their QF match. End of the real story.

Williams Rulez
Sep 5th, 2002, 09:29 AM
Well, this match wasn't played well. Venus was playing solid tennis, but her serve was impeccable today. She lost one point on serve in the first set.

Monica was out of sorts, she made more errors than usual, like she did in the previous matches, that combined with Venus' solid play caused her to lose. Monica was going for too much, that was the main problem I think.

selesadmirer
Sep 5th, 2002, 10:56 AM
monica missed the easiest shots,and those counted as errors,and on the crucial points.so larrybird if you think monicas errors were low you know nothing.

servenrichie
Sep 5th, 2002, 11:00 AM
She had 33 UEs against Hingis, so i'd say she played well. Her opponent just played better as Monica said herself. This debate is rather pointless. The same thing was debated at Roland Garros after she lost to Venus.

Playa
Sep 5th, 2002, 01:54 PM
Servenrichie ,how come you always have the last word.
LoL.

supremeross
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:51 PM
While Monica lost, I wouldn't say this is her worse lost. I think this years AO semifinals loss to Hingis is really up there. If Monica knew and had confidence to put away floaters and short balls, she would have won that match and possible the AO this year. After watching that match, I became less of a Monica fan.

Monica_Rules
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:41 PM
From what i've seen and looking at the stats Monica played bad and Venus played well it was a mixture of both.

ot1962
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:45 PM
Guys, please go back and watch the match to analyze Venus' 2nd serves in the match. Now, we know it's her weakest shot, but was it in this match? The answer is NO! she had a lot of variety on it. she kept producing different kicks on it, so the ball was not bouncing as Seles expected. That's why she kept hitting into the net. It's the VARIETY on the serve. These are the subtle adjustments that the anti-power fans have traditionally FAILED to comprehend, so guys, don't make the same mis-judgement. As someone said earlier, because Venus' 1st serve was working very well she felt less pressure on the 2nd and was able to kick it with more variety.

earthcrystal
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:54 PM
I'm sick to death of the Monica bashing. :fiery:

She came into this tourney having been out since Stanford. She toughed it out against a hot Schwartz, and a nothing-to-lose Cho.
She crushed a mediocre Hingis, and she fell to a serving-like-a-ball-machine Venus. She made no excuses. Gave credit where it was due. And never once mentioned that her foot is "still not too good" which is what Esther told me the day of the Cho match.

Give her a break. How many countless friggin threads do you people have to start about how bad she's playing?! Don't you have anything better to do than to write this crap about Monica, who (as always) gave it everything she had?