The Williams sisters are just too good. I know it isn't their fault but I am so mad that Serena can just breeze through a match with a quality player like she is. Or that when Venus is playing like crap she can still beat a player who has been on fire. I mean honestly I think that I would be surprised if anyone could take a set off of them if they were playing like they normally do. I mean it isn't a wonder that Johnny Mac and Jim Courior can get away with calling women's tennis boring. Dani couldn't play much better, but Serena just runs every freaking ball down and hits the daylight out of it. Alot of people say "go to the gym go to the gym" But most people just don't have the natural ability to compete. Jennifer could realistically improve her serve, and Martina could get smart and change 90% of her game, but other than that I just don't think that the rest of the tour can do anything to challenge them. The WORST part is that they play awefully against eachother. I could take it if they were rivals or something, but it isn't fair to tennis to bang away at the ball and kill quality opponents love and two and then make 1000 errors playing your sister. I mean I just hope that someone comes along next year and is able to kill both of them every week. It isn't even that I don't like them, just I get sick of them being the ones to win all the slams. I might even be able to be fans if they were able to loose matches when they weren't playing to their ability, and have a few close matches when they were playing to their ability. Williams fans, please don't get mad at me but I just am tired of them being so much more talented than everyone else.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:17 AM
Honey it won't last forever...everything will come to an end, no point getting your knickers in a twist.
There was a point when monica, martina nav., steffi and evert were just too good but it came to an end, it's sad your faves aren't competeing but you have to admire the talent....i mean did you see that smash of danaeila's that serena got back,!:eek:
You have to admire her athleticism and determination to get that shot back, every other player wouldn't have even bothered looking at it, let alone running it down.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:25 AM
Long Live Serena & Venus: The best players in the WTA!! Thank you mboyle for admitting the obvious. YOU might be bored (though the strange subconscious subtext of your admiring comments about their games belies that--LOL) but I'm excited beyond words (and contrary to popular belief, so are many others)! I sincerely hope V & S continue to mow down the rest of the field for as long as possible (AND to play better against each other)...
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:33 AM
Maybe they're just feeling a bit burnt out when they play eachother because it's usually near the end of a tournament...but it would be great to see them playing eachother at their best
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:35 AM
Guys I don't dislike the Williams girls. Its just that I have come to the conclusion that for the next couple of years there will be few high quality competitive matches in women's tennis. If the Williams girls could just play well against eachother or if Jennifer or Lindsay could put up some serious competition, I would be elated. I really think that their talent is amazing, but if I were one of the other players, I don't even think I would try if I had to play. I mean I would just look at the draw, and be happy if I got to as far as I could without meeting a sister. That is how frustrating it must be for them. Justine can beat them on clay, but on all other surfaces they really are unbeatable unless they play at less than about a quarter of their ability. That is just plain crazy scarry. And to informitive, I am not bored, just depressed that they can dominate the rest of the field, but play like number 1000 against eachother.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:37 AM
yes, its a sad time for anyone who is not a williams fan, and even to some williams fan, come on, they gotta want some competition. sad sad sad time, bring on 2003!
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:39 AM
Oh well mboyle. Too bad, go take up swimming buddy. It won't last forever. Monica, Steffi, Martina etc. have all dominated before the Williams. I don't think the power is what makes them so good, it's the mental part. Alot of the players on the tour break down mentally IMO. Chanda proved this, because she doesn't really have all the weapons like Venus and Serena but she competes with them. She took out Serena in LA and came close with Venus here. With Lindsay, Jen, etc. the sisters get them nervous IMO.
Also, myboyle I didn't hear all this from you when Jen was about to win her third slam at the U.S. Open after her run at AO, and the French. It seems you are crying over nothing really.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:40 AM
that's why i said they should learn finesse to make it more exciting.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:45 AM
THEY HAVE FINESSE. THAT IS THE SCARRY PART. And I wasn't a member of this board last year. And Jenn won a whopping three titles last year. Venus has lost to a non Williams player twice this year. TWICE!!!!! (and one of them she was injured) I know it won't last forever. I just hope it won't last long.
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:51 AM
martinailuv should learn SOMETHING about tennis before he/she posts...
Sep 4th, 2002, 12:52 AM
When she is playing her best tennis, Serena Williams is the best women's player I've ever seen! :eek: All the other greats in women's tennis had weaknesses, Serena doesn't have one. Unless you count injuries.
What makes the Williams sisters so great is that they play great defense, to go along with their great offense! And that's a great combination to have! :bounce:
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:00 AM
What are you talking about?
There was a competitive match earlier today.
Serena has lost to Schnyder Rubin Henin
Venus has lost to Seles Testud Clijsters.
And they've played a lot of competitive matches against the abovementioned as well as others.
They're the best right now. Enjoy watching them play. Serena particularly is a delight to watch. They won't win every match easily and any victory over them is twice as meaningful because they are playing so well.
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:03 AM
they still haven't won this GS, don't be so pessimistic. Today's match between Venus and Chanda, was amazing and really exciting, even though 90 % of the people wanted to see Chanda winning, Venus was just too strong.
I understand you, I would also feel very disappointed if Lindsay's match between Serena would be that short, considering that Daniela had been playing some wonderful tennis.
Don't worry, I have the feeling that someone will take them out in this GS.
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:19 AM
Good Lord, all of this carrying on for nothing. MBoyle, your post really does not make any sense. You complain that the Williams sisters are dominating, then you say it is because they are more talented than everyone else. What are the sisters suppose to do? Lose a few matches because fans are bitching that the rest of the field cannot catch up to them? Feel sorry for other players who are not on their level? If you were one of your faves dominating, would you even have this problem?
Yes, the Willies are dominating right now. Why not enjoy it? They are spectacular athletes and determined and focused competitors. Both sisters want to win and display their best tennis for their fans. The rating shoot through the roof every time one of them or both of them are in the final and as a result, tennis is getting more exposure than ever. Their Wimbledon final was their best played match yet and proves that they are getting better at competing against each other. The sisters bring out the best in their competition and have taken tennis to an even higher level something all of their competitors, however grudingly for some, admit to and admire. Mishar is dead on when he/she says that beating the sisters really shows that you are one of the best in the world because they are that good.
Instead of complaining MBoyle, give the sisters some credit for making tennis exciting to watch.
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:24 AM
apoet29 your post is is right on point as usual!
Thank you for your clarity, intelligence, and candor on this board. Far too many other people here simply don't want to think or acknowledge reality...
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:35 AM
Sep 4th, 2002, 02:02 AM
Oh lawd, this THREAD makes me feel like crying.
Or barfing up my dinner. :p
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:25 PM
Another broken record!
Playing the same section again and again.
Dont you guys get tired with the boring stuff, 1000 UEs, i mean did you proof-read your post or where you just rambling Mboyle?
I bet it wont be so boring and you wont be crying if it was Jenny right?
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:48 PM
People. Read. Apoet, I totally TOTALLY respect the Williams sisters. They are by far the most talented, powerful, athletic tennis players ever. My original post was one of hopelessness because I realized that it isn't that the other women need to get better, because they really can't. The Williams get inside other player's heads so well that no one stands a chance to beat them unless they are having an off day. So yes I am sounding like a broken record, but it WOULD be the same if Jennifer were beating every quality player out there 6-1; 6-2. I WOULD GET BORED. (BTW Monica is my favorite player not Jenny) SO Williams fans I know it must be upsetting to you to have to put up with our non Williams garbage, but just let us try and cope with their domination okay? That is why we come to this board. To talk to eachother about our frustration with other players not being able to put up a challenge to the Williams onslaught. I don't come here to have you guys jump all over me when I am really feeling sad. As I said I totally respect the Williams sisters, but I feel SO sorry for the other players because there is little to nothing they can do to improve themselves to the point where they could consistently beat a sister.
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:52 PM
".."other players because there is little to nothing they can do to improve themselves to the point where they could consistently beat a sister. "
If that happened, then that particular player(s) would be dominating, I believe.
Sep 4th, 2002, 01:58 PM
I get you, but why measuring the quality of their match through their UEs. Serena had 86 unforced erros against capriati in the semis of Roland Garros, guess what nobody mentions it when they talk about the poor quality of their match measured through how many UEs were hit.
We can all whine about how bad they play each other, but anybody ever thought of what a strain it must be for them? Tennis is 80% mental you know.
Again wishing for them to be "killed" in your first post does not sound friendly at all, it was what it was whinning again.
Of course i shook my head when i saw Serena-Daniela score this morning, but then i knew it wont last forever. So please keep a lid on it and relax!
Sep 4th, 2002, 02:06 PM
i say let''s just enjoy this era while it lasts. it won't last forever and we will probably miss it more than we expect when it''s gone. yes it's kinda boring to see V or S beat up so easily on their opponents but it's not their fault that their opponents don't seem to know how to step up to the challenge and it's not their fault that such matches end up being boring bashing sessions. it''s up to the others to provide the rivalry.
congrats to Chanda for being the only player currently who seems genuinely untimidated by them and willing to try to win for goodness sake!
Sep 4th, 2002, 02:12 PM
No one lasts forever, though I do not see any woman on the horizon who will kill them "every week" by next year (or ever?). "Every week" is a little tough to do, nobody even killed Graf "every week" when she was past her prime. They have lost matches this year, they are not unbeatable. That can make it a little exciting. Plus some of the other women will learn to catch up however they can and that will be exciting to watch, who will do it, and how, and how the sisters will change their own games in response. Chandra Levy (as long as people call her "Chandra" I will go for the full effect) came thisclose to beating Venus just yesterday in what on paper looked like an exciting match. She beat Serena a couple of weeks ago. It is not like they breeze through each and every match. While I do not give Lindsay much hope against Serena, you have to figure Monica, Jennifer, and/or Amelie will have some tricks up their sleeves for Venus. Monica just beat her 8 months ago at a Slam, Jennifer has to hate not having even ONE victory on her, and Amelie, is this her second "breakthough" at a Slam? Who knows. Will Venus get upset? Who knows, probably not, but you never know. It is not all that "unexciting." It is not like a bunch of qualifiers are left in the draw who have never played them before.
Sep 4th, 2002, 02:16 PM
Quit complaining. I'm sure if players you liked were better than everyone else you would be loving it. I never liked Martina Hingis, but i didnt whinge when she was winning everything.
Sep 4th, 2002, 03:26 PM
As I said. If Monica Seles were to be bashing everyone in sight for more than a few months, I would start to feel sorry for others again. And you know what? What I meant to say Tee was that I hope that someone comes along that can consistently give Venus and/or Serena a run for their money every time, and beat them occasionally.
Sep 4th, 2002, 03:44 PM
mboyle you say you are a fan of the sisters but you sure don't act like it.
second, to say that the rest of the field can't get better is just another way to backhand the williams sisters. They worked hard to get where they are. They trained hard. They practiced hard.
Look at martina n. She's 45 and still competes. The other girls need to pick up the slack and go train harder, practice harder because the bar has been raised. Why is it that only chanda rubin and Lindsay D. understand this? Why don't you write a post ECOURAGING the other players to get better? IF the williams win everything from now until they retire its because they deserve it.
Your post makes it seem that they are bad for tennis. Whats bad are the other players slacking! Thats what is bad.
Also serena and venus even though I wish they were unbeatable, they are not. I can't stand it when people talk about them like they are invulnerable THEY HAVE BEEN BEATEN THIS YEAR ALREADY!!!!
so really you have no point because THEY HAVE BEEN BEATEN. The problem is that your fav is not beating them so you use this passive aggressive bs to take pot shots at them.
as someone already posted : monica, kim, justine, patty, rubin, testud have already scored victories this year. So really stop complaining and enjoy the ride.
As far as playing each other, well they are getting better and better and please dont say its not because you can't compare their match with those 6/0 6/0 matches of steffi crushing some poor soul.
Sep 4th, 2002, 04:00 PM
Cybelle hit it right on the money MBoyle. Your posts are nothing but passive-aggressive attempts to criticize the sisters for winning. Let me ask you something. When your fave Monica was winning everything in sight and was so mentally tough that even Graf was losing to her, do you sit and whine, "Oh Monica, couldn't you let someone else win for once? How can you keep beating up on other players?" I really doubt that was your issue. You resent the Williams sisters for their dominance because they are not your favorite players. If that were Seles up there, I doubt you would argue this point.
Obviously, you haven't been checking the stats either because the sisters have lost to other players this year.
Venus: Seles, Testud, S. Williams, Clijsters
Serena: Schnyder, Henin, Rubin
These are the "occasional losses" that you are talking about. I did read your post before replying at least twice. You're being hypocritical. You say that you respect the sisters games, yet you slam them for working toward fulfilling their potential claiming that the Williams onslaught leaves you bored with tennis. Were you this bored when Monica dominated the field?
I'm not trying to be a bitch here, although I do sound like one. But your posts are full of contradictions. You cannot claim to respect someone while engaging in backhanded bashing. The only proposal I have for you is if you don't like the sisters, then don't watch tennis.
Sep 4th, 2002, 04:40 PM
Let's just forget about the rest of the players.....just let Venus and Serena play all of the tournaments as finalist and decide the winner. The rest can sit in the stands and fall asleep. Get a grip! The best players are winning the tournaments at this time. You can never tell how a match will be determined until the end. Remember.....even top ranked players are defeated in the first round.
Sep 4th, 2002, 04:46 PM
mboyle starts an innocuous, polite thread expressing his feelings of frustration and sadness and you all go on the attack. Pretty nasty of you all.
mboyle, Venus did not have an off day by ACCIDENT. Players like Rubin and Schnyder play smart tennis and keep the match close to keep pressure on them. They "attack" the forehand and footwork by using varying spins, paces and placement. They played good defense and good offense using all of the court to put doubt into their heads. None of this is an accident. Players' technique and game don't break down by accident. Otherwise Jenn or Dani would have had a lucky day already where their technique breaks down. Power players play a "rhythm building" game as opposed to one that disrupts rhythm. If you can play their game as well as them then fine otherwise you will lose. Jennifer needs to try a few new things but still basically stick to the power game. She should improve her serve and incorporate SOME net play. By mixing it up and adding DOUBT to the opponent's mind, she will get better results.
Sep 4th, 2002, 05:07 PM
I think his points is though if the williams sisters will dominate and get to finals and play eachother they should give us good matches to watch.When Monica dominated she lost matches and her slam matches were great vs Graf,Sabatini,Vicario,Navratilova and so on but with Venus and Serena they are begining to hammer everyone which isn't enjoyable to see.
In my opinion the williams domination will do 1 of 2 things raise the level of all women and the game will get more competative or the other girl will get left behind and womens tennis will get boring and loose its popularity.I hope its the first one that happens.
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:43 AM
The main problem with the thread is the assertion that the competition that exists now can't get better. That's crazy...of course they can. and as Tru says they might try using those facets of the game that might make them more of a threat...like Chanda's going to net.
I wish the sisters were unbeatable.... they are not. But their is some question whether some of the top players want to do the work needed to challenge the sisters. (Miss Hingis? Miss Seles?) I think you fans that want somebody other than the Williams to win should get aim more frustration at some of these other girls that aren't stepping up to the plate. I also wonder why all the dispair so soon? The sisters have not dominated very long, by the standard of previous Female superstars. The rivalry between Venus and Serena is just getting started...save the dispair for a couple of years guys.
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:52 AM
Apoet rules:) Nice post.:)
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:58 AM
Here's to mboyle "feeling like crying" for 3 - 7 more years!!!
Long live the sisters!!!
Good luck Venus and Serena.
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:19 AM
I guess all the tennis players, experts, commentators are just flat out wrong when they say venus and serena are raising the bar of women's tennis. :rolleyes:
martina n did it, steffi did it, monica did it, and now venus and serena are doing it.
also who cares if the women practice with men or if those men can beat the women. So what, This is WOMENS TENNIS, get it? No Y chromesomes are included in the analysis.
Sep 5th, 2002, 05:09 AM
I don't think it is enough to just hit with men.
I hit with college level women (objectively more talented than I) when I was in college and if I hit "like a backboard" I would beat them. They would get nothing out of it, other than a good workout.
They need the men to specifically mimic their opponents and that is tough when you're trying to duplicate certain players (Seles and Serena being the two I would have the most difficulty mimicing).
Hitting the tough angles, on the run (and recovering for the next tough angle shot), is what the rest of the field needs to head back to the woodshed and work on. Coaches might fear this kind of training because ankles will sprain trying to keep up, but it's the reality of competition.
Serena is still whacking the ball off the court, but Venus is settling in and running her opponents a little more. Serena will kick your ass, but Venus will break your will long before the match is over.
I love those girls!!!
Sep 5th, 2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by jp
Now, are the Williams "raising the bar", are they raising the level of women tennis? NO. All top players are already working extremely hard, ....
First, the Williams sister obviously HAVE raised the bar. They are better than everyone else, so that means they are the gold standard, by which all others are compared.
Now, as to you assertion that all the other girls are working hard...also not true. Has Capriati hired a serve coach to improve her serve? No. Has Hingis done the same, and worked on her upper body. Not really. Has Seles gotten in the best shape of her life, as did Davenport and Martina Navratilova well into their repective careers. NO again. To real champions, being a very good player is not enough. Tiger Woods changed his golf swing AFTER winning the Masters in record fashion, becasue very good wasn't good enough.
Some of the girls on the WTA, I feel, have made the desicion that being a very good player is good enough, and aren't willing to pay the price and make the changes that might get them to #1. No question the bar has been raised. Some girls are content to hope the bar gets lowered somhow, rather than change anything.
Sep 5th, 2002, 06:34 PM
Let me clear some things up. First, I am not a Williams fan. I totally respect them and I would never EVER bash their game. They are sweet girls with more game than any other tennis player in the world. (Including men). Venus' only weakness is her second serve, and Serena has no weaknesses. Second, to Apoet, I wasn't a fan of Monica's when she was dominating. It is in my nature to like the underdog. Not all the time, but I would love to see Monica win ONE more slam, I would love to see Lindsay or Jennifer or Daniela win another (or first) slam, but I don't expect all the slams to be Williams free. I think Venus/Serena are a great story and in 50 years I will enjoy telling my grandchildren about them. I just don't want to have to tell them that they would destroy some of the best players in the world and then play error fests against eachother. I understand WHY they do it. That is self explainitory. I just WISH they wouldn't. I LOVE to beat my brother. I would beat him love and love if I could every time. The difference is that it doesn't make 450,000 dollars and a huge amount of prestige difference whether I win or he wins our matches. Thanks to Truefrruend/Monica Rules for your intelligent posts. To LarryBid, I have a horrible toss. I have taken lessons over and over again and worked for maybe 30 minutes JUST on my toss. I still have a horrible toss. Jenn's toss is horrible. It COULD get better, but she is still limited to where she can serve with her toss. Martina could improve her serve loads, but Jennifer is really hampered by her toss. As for Monica, I am sure she will win another slam, but her career will still be a hall of fame career whether or not she wins another one. (Heck if Pam Shriver can get in to it I bet that most of the current top ten players will too) It would be a great story, but Monica even in the shape of her life still moves slowly because of her two handed forehand/height. (Unless your name is Venus if you are tall you don't run quickly most of the time). Guys, I am sorry if I upset you in anyway, but I wasn't meaning to be hypocritical, or anything. Just really to complement the Williams Sisters on their amazing skill. Unfortunately, at the time, I had just realized that the rest of the players really are not going to get much better, so I couldn't bring myself to deliver the compliment in a straightforward, positive manner. I made the mistake of complementing them via a hard to follow, negative way that gave the impression that I was mad at them for living up to their potential. (Even I am not that ridiculous) Sorry for being so childish. I should have saved all of you the confusion. BUT I didn't.
Sep 5th, 2002, 06:50 PM
Serena is just too good for everyone right now.
I really want to see her playing John McEnroe. If she doesn't win, am sure she will get some games!!
I think Lindsay could get a bagel from Serena!!
She is too good.....just too good for anyone in WTA.
Sep 5th, 2002, 07:27 PM
mboyle, you seem to have concluded that some of the best players in the WTA can't improve. Nobody else that has been a champion in tennis (John McEnroe, Navratilove, Eveert, Shriver, Austin, etc) believes that nonsense. Of course they can get better, many champions have done it...some like Navrotliova have changed considerably late in careers (Martina changed her backhand). To say that Capriati is "limited" by her toss means nothing, unless she commits to change it. Nobody knows their limits unless they try to reach them. Capriati may never have a serve as good as a Williams, but she definately won't if she is not willing to change it. Your posts don't upset me...they just show that you have the same defeatist attitude that is holding back some fine tennis players on the WTA. They have convinced themselves that this is as good as they can be, when it's almost gauranteed to not be the case.