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View Full Version : Rubin's 2nd serve slower than Hingis'


ptkten
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:27 PM
...I was looking at the match statistics and Hingis and Rubin had the same average 1st serve speed and Hingis had a faster 2nd serve average by 3 mph.
I just wanted to point this out for two reasons...Hingis' serve is at the same par as many other players, and that maybe Tracy is wrong and that you dont' have to have a big serve to do well against the Williams sisters.

I am sick of people (especially Tracy Austin) saying that Martina can't get back to the top because she has a horrible serve and that its worse than all the other top players when players such as Rubin and Seles have very comparable serves, at least today.

What Hingis does need to improve to get to the top is her movement, her confidence, and her depth on her groundstrokes, which were much better in the 90s, as I saw when watching her play Serena in the 99 final.

There was no difference in her serve speed and according to these stats the lack of power on the serve is not the reason for her recent losses.

adison-hingis
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:31 PM
yeah her movement is the most important part in her game !

Hingiswinsthis
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:31 PM
Chanda goes for her 1st serve though. Whereas players think of martina's serve as 2 2nd serves.

oggie
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:33 PM
Speed of the second serve is not the only factor that determines whether a serve is good or not. You also have to look at the placement.

CJ07
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:35 PM
The thing is Martinas serve has no pace

mboyle
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:36 PM
Seles' serve is years better than Martina's. Rubin's serve might have averaged slower, but it was placed better, and had more "kick" on it. Martina will struggle to stay top ten if she keeps her current form up. Also, Rubin has scorching groundies, wheras Martina has an accurate but not powerful backhand, and a moonballing forehand. Chanda's serve is technically sound, Martina's is a technical nightmare. Chanda's forehand is one of the game's best, Martina's is loopy and attackable. Yes Martina is a great GREAT thinker, but she doesn't have the power to beat a Williams sister, Davenport, or Capriati (and other players once they get confident) unless they are having an off day.

villa
Sep 3rd, 2002, 11:36 PM
Chanda has a massive forehand..one of the biggest in the game..she can match forehand for forehand with any player...
Martina doesn't have a weapon and will struggel with the power players at this time...

bobcat
Sep 4th, 2002, 02:26 AM
Serve speeds are misleading. Serena's 2nd serve average speed was only 79 mph vs Daniela's 83 mph, but Serena's 2nd serve is by far the best in women's tennis. The placement and spin on her 2nd serve are so good that Daniela could barely return it.

smygelfh
Sep 4th, 2002, 07:42 AM
It's a bit about perception too.

Everyone _knows_ Hingis has a crappy serve - thus they attack it and with confidence they will succeed.

If Serena would hit identical serves as Hingis, the opponent would still believe Serena to have great serves, thus they won't attack them - and that will make them seemingly better. (Until someone discovers the truth and dares to attack it).

Once again, I'm not denying that the serve is bad, but it's not the whole truth.

-Sonic-
Sep 4th, 2002, 09:39 AM
Also, Chanda's average would have been brought down a tiny bit by her apparant serve-choking kinda thing in the closing stages of the match. She put in some 2nd serves that even I could have womped away for a winner in the final few serving games, it was disappointing to see.

wongqks
Sep 4th, 2002, 09:48 AM
Yes Chanda serve is slow but then if you have seen the match Chanda serve is always on the serving line or very well placed, that's why Venus annot jump all over her in second serveas much as Monica did to martina serve

Robbie.
Sep 4th, 2002, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by mboyle
Seles' serve is years better than Martina's. Rubin's serve might have averaged slower, but it was placed better, and had more "kick" on it. Martina will struggle to stay top ten if she keeps her current form up. Also, Rubin has scorching groundies, wheras Martina has an accurate but not powerful backhand, and a moonballing forehand. Chanda's serve is technically sound, Martina's is a technical nightmare. Chanda's forehand is one of the game's best, Martina's is loopy and attackable. Yes Martina is a great GREAT thinker, but she doesn't have the power to beat a Williams sister, Davenport, or Capriati (and other players once they get confident) unless they are having an off day.

By the sounds of this post Chanda is the player who has 5 GS Titles, 200+ weeks at #1, and even in the "worst" form of her career a GS Finals appearance where she nearly beat the #1 player in the world in the final. :rolleyes:

Larrybid
Sep 5th, 2002, 03:57 AM
All of Hingis's GS titles and weeks at #1 won't help her now. The only point is that RIGHT THIS MINUTE Chanda is a better player than Hingis, and the serve is one reason why.

bobcat
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:06 AM
Hingis did manage to have a great deal of success in a short period of time, but don't kid yourself. The game has passed her by. If she wants to catch up she's going to have to do a lot of retooling of her game.

treufreund
Sep 5th, 2002, 04:25 AM
Martina's movement is very important to her game. Also Chanda's second serve is not usually a kick serve at all but a well-placed slice serve that stays low. When Martina was playing so well at the beginning of the year in Australia players like Testud, Clijsters, Seles, Shaughnessy and Capriati were having a very difficult time attacking her second serve. Even PAM SHRIVER remarked at how well her second serve was standing up. So in essence martina and chanda use the strategy of less is more. If I place the serve well and keep it low then I am DARING YOU TO TRUST YOUR TIMING ENOUGH TO TAKE A BIG OLD SWING AT IT. You will have to raise the ball with the swing but not jerk up on it or overhit it. If you overhit by just an inch it's still a free point for me. Even Venus said that she had a tough time with Chanda's very slow second serve and Monica said that about Hingis's serve in Australia.

A big serve mentality can be great if you can count on them to go in but with players like Hantuchova or Davenport who in my opinion may miss under pressure or who maybe don't vary the pace enough the other players get into a groove on the pace and can feed off of it on the return and just block it back pretty deep or inside out and still get good pace off the return. A big serve is definitely a plus but a well-placed, well-varied serve is also quite good.

Brian Stewart
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:04 AM
The serve speed is only part of the story. By going out wide, instead of down the "T", you lose about 10% off the radar gun reading. By putting heavy spin on the ball, it reads about 20% slower. Chanda was slicing a lot of serves wide. The spin has been more effective. At Wimbledon, she averaged something like 84 MPH on her second serves against Serena, and her average serve speed on first and seond serves in that match were the same as Serena's. But it was more of a straight serve with the pace that Serena enjoys. By mixing it up, she's improved her results.

When Martina got in trouble with her second serves was when they plopped right in the middle of the box. They weren't down the "T", or wide, or into the body. So they were batting practice for returners. And there was less force put into the serves, and less spin. She needs to add more oomph to her serves. It doesn't necessarily mean more MPH, but more force on the ball. And move it around. Martina's service motion in general needs overhauled. If she can do that, and get the serve up to a point where she can win it, instead of trying to not lose it, she can be more aggressive with the rest of her game.

mboyle
Sep 7th, 2002, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by tennisaddict.


By the sounds of this post Chanda is the player who has 5 GS Titles, 200+ weeks at #1, and even in the "worst" form of her career a GS Finals appearance where she nearly beat the #1 player in the world in the final. :rolleyes:

Chanda is currently the better player. Accept it.

o0O0o
Sep 7th, 2002, 02:29 AM
as in this week? maybe. same result, no? and Hingis just came back from injury, and has CRUSHED Chanda in head-to-head.

Anyway, Hingis needs to stop making unforced errors, she had like forty in two sets which is a lot for anyone yet alone "Miss Consistence" herself.

Some quick thoughts on the Williams final:

Serena looks fat in that thing she wears. Ugly. I said it. Shoot me.

They're extremely boring players to watch, and I've come to the conclusion that everyone must choke against them, their reputation has exceeded their talent. Get close to beating them, you start thinking you will beat a Williams sister, get too excited, tense up, you're history.